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Author Topic: Prosperity 2E Preview 1  (Read 12047 times)

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Donald X.

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Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« on: May 30, 2022, 03:00:08 am »
+29

Prosperity 2E! It's here at last, in preview form. People don't quite have Seaside 2E in their hands yet, but that's not stopping us.

Each day for 3 days I'll show 3 cards leaving Prosperity, and the 3 replacing them, and talk about all six. The last day will throw in the miscellaneous minor errata.

As with Seaside, I had no specific objective beyond making the set better. I took bad-to-print cards out, I added good-to-print ones. A key thing was, it's the Treasures expansion, but it sure had some weak Treasures. Let's see what we can do about that. And, the set had VP tokens, and I wasn't getting rid of them, so I wanted to get a little more use out of them if possible.



It used to be I felt like I could make an occasional intentionally weak card, that could be fun to win with in the rare games where it was useful. I later realized that I would make those cards without trying, and so shouldn't try to make them. These days my rugs try to be perfect. Counting House was very weak, except for a few combos that made it powerful.

Magnate also likes having lots of Treasures, but doesn't require them to be Coppers, and it also draws, but it can draw other cards, and doesn't care about your discard pile, and well it's all there on the card. It's Magnate.



Mountebank is easily one of the most miserable powerful attacks in the game. It fits the theme of Ghost Ship and Ambassador: you get so much junk that you don't get to see your deck. It's the card I most wanted to replace in Prosperity.

Charlatan also gives out Curses and Treasures that make $1, but makes them the same card, which is way more manageable. There are a lot of cool interactions that come up as a result.



Contraband was a cool idea, but you basically never want it. You want to buy the cards you want, especially when it's oh Provinces. And being a Gold for $5 doesn't make up the difference.

War Chest fixes that by being a big Workshop; there just have to be two things you'd be happy to gain with it.

As previously you can try out the cards right away, at dominion.games.
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Tias

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2022, 04:09:24 am »
+1

Personally, Im hoping for combination of Loan and Venture into something like that:
1 money
[If you played this from your hand] Reveal cards from your deck, until you reveal a Treasure.
Play it or trash it.
Discard the rest.
Cost: 3 if recursion is forbidden, else 4 or 5.
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J Reggie

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2022, 09:35:58 am »
+2

The other day, I pulled off a Raider-Council room combo in person in a game where curses were also flying around. It got to the point where my friends were discarding all their good cards and saying, "why can't you just play a curse?" Little did we know, you would be able to do that soon!

Jacob marley

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2022, 10:31:37 am »
0

How does multiple war chests work, if I play a second war chest, then can I gain the card that was named for the first war chest, or are they both banned?
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4est

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2022, 10:37:11 am »
+1

How does multiple war chests work, if I play a second war chest, then can I gain the card that was named for the first war chest, or are they both banned?

The banned cards stack for each War Chest you play, just like Contraband (i.e. "named by War Chests this turn").
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dirkdebeule

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2022, 11:16:25 am »
+2

War Chest:
Why is there no “0” or “?” value in the top right/left corner but a “blank”?
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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2022, 11:32:41 am »
+3

War Chest:
Why is there no “0” or “?” value in the top right/left corner but a “blank”?

On Reddit, Donald X confirmed that it is a change that may be implemented for future printings: https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/v0uduh/comment/iaiqh7r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
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dirkdebeule

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2022, 11:40:04 am »
0

War Chest:
Why is there no “0” or “?” value in the top right/left corner but a “blank”?

On Reddit, Donald X confirmed that it is a change that may be implemented for future printings: https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/v0uduh/comment/iaiqh7r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Thx
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pate

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2022, 02:50:37 pm »
0

I really like the charlatans curse and may house rule other curse games to play the same.  I really actually wish that Donald made an official alternative curse deck that was like curse cards lite version.  Like a curse that self trashed itself but turns into two coppers.  A curse that can self trash itself only if you have another curse in your hand, a curse that also functions as a copper,  a cantrip
Curse worth -2 vp etc.  or even a rule that you may forfeit your turn to trash any number of curses you were dealt
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dz

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2022, 02:54:37 pm »
+3

Since the only card here that will require a nontrivial amount of rulings is Charlatan, here's the FAQ and other rulings:

This turns Curses into Treasures for the entire game and in all situations; it's just like the bottom bar says "Curse - Treasure." They may be played for +$1 in the Buy phase. They are trashed from play when gaining Mint, Magnate counts them in your hand, Courtier (from Intrigue) gives you two choices when revealing one, and so on. They are still Curses and still worth –1VP at the end of the game.

-I don't this will be ambiguous, but all Curses everywhere are affected. So your Bandit can trash their Curses for them, and Curses in the trash count for Forager.
-Unlike Capitalism, Curses remain as Treasures when scoring, which matters for Keep. This ruling technically applies to Family of Inventors as well, but I say technically because nothing makes that matter.
-DXV confirmed it on discord: if you put Charlatan in the Black Market deck, Curses will be Treasures (and of course the recommendation is to not put it in the deck).
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Holger

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2022, 03:34:25 pm »
+1

"DXV confirmed it on discord: if you put Charlatan in the Black Market deck, Curses will be Treasures (and of course the recommendation is to not put it in the deck)."

The ruling makes sense, but why is that not recommended? It could make for an interesting change in a game with other cursers, where they give out better junk but don't have to compete with Charlatan as a kingdom card.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2022, 04:18:29 pm »
+1

It's part of a standard recommendation: don't put cards with setup instructions in the Black Market deck unless that setup instruction is already included in the kingdom.
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mxdata

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2022, 04:27:23 pm »
+3

With Charlatan, Treasurer can now gain Curses from the trash. Not that you'll want to do that very often, but the option's there, and now Bonfire can finally trash Curses!

Edit: And also five (or maybe more if I'm missing any) cards will now gain the ability to trash Curses: Treasurer, Spice Merchant, Counterfeit, Loan, and Pooka. Pooka's Curse-trashing will be especially interesting, making Cursed Gold more useful, since you'll be able to trash your Curses!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 05:28:26 pm by mxdata »
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mxdata

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2022, 04:28:32 pm »
+2

Since the only card here that will require a nontrivial amount of rulings is Charlatan, here's the FAQ and other rulings:

This turns Curses into Treasures for the entire game and in all situations; it's just like the bottom bar says "Curse - Treasure." They may be played for +$1 in the Buy phase. They are trashed from play when gaining Mint, Magnate counts them in your hand, Courtier (from Intrigue) gives you two choices when revealing one, and so on. They are still Curses and still worth –1VP at the end of the game.

-I don't this will be ambiguous, but all Curses everywhere are affected. So your Bandit can trash their Curses for them, and Curses in the trash count for Forager.
-Unlike Capitalism, Curses remain as Treasures when scoring, which matters for Keep. This ruling technically applies to Family of Inventors as well, but I say technically because nothing makes that matter.
-DXV confirmed it on discord: if you put Charlatan in the Black Market deck, Curses will be Treasures (and of course the recommendation is to not put it in the deck).

Given that Mint is mentioned in this FAQ, it seems safe to assume that Mint is staying. Kinda cool that Mint can now trash Curses!
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infangthief

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2022, 04:51:46 pm »
+7

I really like that these new cards are so simple, especially Magnate and Charlatan.
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CaptainTheo

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2022, 05:56:29 pm »
0

Hmm if the Allies rule book about suggested sets of cards does not include removed cards - meaning that Talisman and Mint are staying - then it would seem that the five other cards that will be removed just about have to be Royal Seal, Loan, Venture, Goons and Hoard.

Of the new cards, Charlatan seems particularly powerful being a terminal Gold that effectively gives everyone Coppers and -1 VP, comparing favourably to Mandarin (a terminal Gold with a drawback) and Legionary (a terminal Gold with a conditional powerful attack).

Admittedly Mountebank itself was a very powerful card and Charlatan feels significantly less vicious and more fun than that card.

Magnate looks like it will need larger hand sizes and a source of Buy to do well, otherwise it compares unfavourably to the cheaper Smithy.

I concur that it's nice to see some fairly simple cards.
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4est

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2022, 06:04:56 pm »
+1

I really want to like Magnate, Treasure-Madman is such a simple idea, but it suffers from Counting House's issue of drawing it at the wrong times. When Magnate's good, it's really, really good. But you'll also get the turns where you're forced to play it as a Moat or a Ruined Library. Not quite as bad as drawing your Counting House with an empty discard, but still less reliable than I'd like. Multiple Magnates stack far better than multiple Counting Houses, and it's for sure a more interesting card overall, but I keep finding myself wishing my Magnates were Smithies.

Ironically, Magnate does actually combo nicely with Counting House.
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Imrahil3

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2022, 06:10:23 pm »
+2

Of the new cards, Charlatan seems particularly powerful being a terminal Gold that effectively gives everyone Coppers and -1 VP, comparing favourably to Mandarin (a terminal Gold with a drawback) and Legionary (a terminal Gold with a conditional powerful attack).

I think this is a consequence of how the game has developed. Gold became less valuable so action gold became less valuable so action gold went from needing a penalty at $5 to needing a side effect at $5.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2022, 08:34:27 pm »
+2

War Chest seems a little strange as a treasure, treasures in general either produce , or have effects that require them to be treasures in order to make the most sense (like Horn of Plenty). War Chest as an action with +1 action tacked on would normally play out just the same.
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heron

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2022, 09:21:47 pm »
+6

War Chest seems a little strange as a treasure, treasures in general either produce , or have effects that require them to be treasures in order to make the most sense (like Horn of Plenty). War Chest as an action with +1 action tacked on would normally play out just the same.

Being a treasure instead of an action makes it a lot harder to do gain and play shenanigans, which is a large difference imo.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2022, 10:52:48 pm »
+2

You heard what he said, he wasn’t going to get rid of cards that gave out the VP tokens, which means goons is here to stay yes!
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2022, 06:05:03 am »
+2

I have probably bought Magnate more tha I've bought counting house, and I have been playng for like 10 years.
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IceHot

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2022, 10:08:08 am »
+1

Ill miss both the first two cards. Contraband is still one of my favorites when playing in person.  Its the extra buy that makes it good when the board is filled with choices and platinum is in the game Colony or double province isnt a behind play in some games.  Just turn off auto coins and play it first.

I also like Counting House in the right situations I have one plenty of games with it.


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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2022, 05:02:45 pm »
+1

Magnate seems to be a budget Marquis and a really pathetic one at that. I really wish that it also had a bit more going for on turns where it only gets drawn with 0,1 or 2 Treasures. It's a really bad when it is a lesser Smithy a lot of times.

The rest (from day 1 and 2) are cool though.
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Holger

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2022, 07:17:10 am »
0

It's part of a standard recommendation: don't put cards with setup instructions in the Black Market deck unless that setup instruction is already included in the kingdom.

That sounds reasonable, but has this ever been stated as an "official" recommendation by Donald/RGG? The original card's FAQ didn't mention anything like this, as there were no other cards with setup instructions back then.

Also, Charlatan does not really have a "setup instruction" as it doesn't add any extra piles/tokens/mats to the game. It only changes the playing rules for Curses, which are in every kingdom anyway.
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