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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?  (Read 16585 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #100 on: March 18, 2021, 10:52:19 am »
+2

"if you have exactly one other rabbit in play"?

Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #101 on: March 18, 2021, 11:13:38 am »
0

"if you have exactly one other rabbit in play"?

I was thinking about changing the vanilla bonus to "+1 Action, +$2" or something like that, but this could work.  Thanks for the suggestion!

It also solves the potential issue of Rabbits running out too quickly (and I don't think making more of them available in the supply is a good solution).
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #102 on: March 18, 2021, 11:27:31 am »
+2

"if you have exactly one other rabbit in play"?
I think "if you have exactly 2 Rabbits in play" is a bit shorter and clearer; both wordings work a bit differently with Commands.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 11:29:00 am by faust »
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #103 on: March 18, 2021, 12:20:17 pm »
+2



Quote from: Rabbit
$4 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
If you have another Rabbit in play, +$1 and gain a Rabbit.
-
When any player gains a Rabbit, you may return this from your hand to its pile for +2 Cards.
This is extremely swingy. Basically, the first player to get their deck under control is able to insta-pile all the Rabbits and from then on will have like an extra $8 available every single turn.

I think you're right, especially if the Rabbits are uncontested early in the game.  I'll think about if there is a way to avoid that - one way could be to nerf the card so that it is no longer a cantrip and it becomes harder to gain multiple Rabbits during the same turn.

Another option could be to set aside the Rabbits and gain them at the end of your turn. If you think that makes it too wordy, you could have it gain a non-Supply "Bunny"--a cantrip which sets itself aside and at the end of the turn returns itself to the Supply and gives you a Rabbit (thus moving the wordy setting aside language to the other card and slowing the multiplication element even further):

« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 12:28:12 pm by emtzalex »
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #104 on: March 18, 2021, 07:48:13 pm »
+1



Quote from: Rabbit
$4 - Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
If you have another Rabbit in play, +$1 and gain a Rabbit.
-
When any player gains a Rabbit, you may return this from your hand to its pile for +2 Cards.
This is extremely swingy. Basically, the first player to get their deck under control is able to insta-pile all the Rabbits and from then on will have like an extra $8 available every single turn.

I think you're right, especially if the Rabbits are uncontested early in the game.  I'll think about if there is a way to avoid that - one way could be to nerf the card so that it is no longer a cantrip and it becomes harder to gain multiple Rabbits during the same turn.

Another option could be to set aside the Rabbits and gain them at the end of your turn. If you think that makes it too wordy, you could have it gain a non-Supply "Bunny"--a cantrip which sets itself aside and at the end of the turn returns itself to the Supply and gives you a Rabbit (thus moving the wordy setting aside language to the other card and slowing the multiplication element even further):



You could simplify Bunny's text slightly by making it "exchange for a Rabbit", and make Rabbit's reaction contingent on a player gaining a Bunny
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #105 on: March 19, 2021, 02:44:55 am »
+3

I've updated Rabbit based on the feedback received. 



You only get the Peddler effect if you get two Rabbits in play, and subsequent Rabbit plays will just be cantrips unless you can trigger the Reaction and return them to the Supply (although you can get around this with Command cards).

Now that it is harder to gain Rabbits, I did give some thought to changing the Reaction from +2 Cards to +3 Cards, but I think that could create too much of a disincentive for gaining Rabbits if your opponents have them in their deck.  Instead, I've changed it to +2 Cards and $1, as this gives an additional bonus to the active player if they are able to trigger the Reaction.

The Bunny idea is cute and I like the flavour, but I prefer not to introduce another non-Supply card.
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #106 on: March 19, 2021, 03:49:09 am »
0

I've updated Rabbit based on the feedback received. 



You only get the Peddler effect if you get two Rabbits in play, and subsequent Rabbit plays will just be cantrips unless you can trigger the Reaction and return them to the Supply (although you can get around this with Command cards).

Now that it is harder to gain Rabbits, I did give some thought to changing the Reaction from +2 Cards to +3 Cards, but I think that could create too much of a disincentive for gaining Rabbits if your opponents have them in their deck.  Instead, I've changed it to +2 Cards and $1, as this gives an additional bonus to the active player if they are able to trigger the Reaction.

The Bunny idea is cute and I like the flavour, but I prefer not to introduce another non-Supply card.

It's going to be rather rare that you'll be able to use the +$1 on the reaction, since most of the time, when another player gains a Rabbit it'll be on their own turn.  Perhaps instead the reaction can be a duration, i.e., "+2 cards +$1 at the start of your next turn"?
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #107 on: March 19, 2021, 04:02:34 am »
+1

It's going to be rather rare that you'll be able to use the +$1 on the reaction, since most of the time, when another player gains a Rabbit it'll be on their own turn.  Perhaps instead the reaction can be a duration, i.e., "+2 cards +$1 at the start of your next turn"?
The text says "any player" rather than "another player".
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #108 on: March 19, 2021, 04:32:28 am »
0

It's going to be rather rare that you'll be able to use the +$1 on the reaction, since most of the time, when another player gains a Rabbit it'll be on their own turn.  Perhaps instead the reaction can be a duration, i.e., "+2 cards +$1 at the start of your next turn"?
The text says "any player" rather than "another player".

Ah, I misread that.  Okay, then my comment is irrelevant
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #109 on: March 19, 2021, 12:14:32 pm »
+2

I'm sure I can't enter more than once, but I recently, unrelated to this contest, made a card with a pile of 20, so it fits the theme pretty well.  Play-tested it and had a lot of fun with it.  Thought I'd include it here, but my Tutelage card from earlier in the thread is my entry to the contest (not this).  So, just for fun: Mice.

The key to playing Mice is that you have just enough of them, but not too many. It might be very dangerous to play with Mice without any control of your deck.  They can get out of control very easily.  If you don't have enough of them, don't worry, they'll take care of that on their own!


« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 11:39:46 am by DunnoItAll »
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #110 on: March 19, 2021, 02:50:25 pm »
0

I'm sure I can't enter more than once, but I recently, unrelated to this contest, made a card with a pile of 20, so it fits the theme pretty well.  Play-tested it and had a lot of fun with it.  Thought I'd include it here, but my Tutelage card from earlier in the thread is my entry to the contest (not this).  So, just for fun: Mice.

The key to playing Mice is that you have just enough of them, but not too many. It might be very dangerous to play with Mice without any control of your deck.  They can get out of control very easily.  If you don't have enough of them, don't worry, they'll take care of that on their own!



This is interesting. How did it play? It looks rather strong as it is essentially non terminal and can produce up to $4. How often did that happen?
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Holger

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #111 on: March 19, 2021, 03:44:53 pm »
+1

I'm sure I can't enter more than once, but I recently, unrelated to this contest, made a card with a pile of 20, so it fits the theme pretty well.  Play-tested it and had a lot of fun with it.  Thought I'd include it here, but my Tutelage card from earlier in the thread is my entry to the contest (not this).  So, just for fun: Mice.

The key to playing Mice is that you have just enough of them, but not too many. It might be very dangerous to play with Mice without any control of your deck.  They can get out of control very easily.  If you don't have enough of them, don't worry, they'll take care of that on their own!



This is interesting. How did it play? It looks rather strong as it is essentially non terminal and can produce up to $4. How often did that happen?

It can produce any amount of $ (up to the number of Mice in your deck) AFAICS. E.g. you can get $20 Mice if you reveal 19 Mice in a row.

As long as at least half the Actions in your hand are non-Mice, Mice is essentially a non-terminal treasure card that's either better than Gold ($4+), or gives you a copy of itself for free.
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #112 on: March 19, 2021, 04:02:42 pm »
+2

I'm sure I can't enter more than once, but I recently, unrelated to this contest, made a card with a pile of 20, so it fits the theme pretty well.  Play-tested it and had a lot of fun with it.  Thought I'd include it here, but my Tutelage card from earlier in the thread is my entry to the contest (not this).  So, just for fun: Mice.

The key to playing Mice is that you have just enough of them, but not too many. It might be very dangerous to play with Mice without any control of your deck.  They can get out of control very easily.  If you don't have enough of them, don't worry, they'll take care of that on their own!


This is interesting. How did it play? It looks rather strong as it is essentially non terminal and can produce up to $4. How often did that happen?
I had several hands of all Mice.  There was decent trashing, so I could get it back under control. We have very few extra actions on the board, so a hand of all Mice was definitely bad. Of course, with all Mice, it is terminal. I think it needs a lot more testing on a wider variety of boards, but it was for sure interesting.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #113 on: March 19, 2021, 05:21:21 pm »
0

I'm sure I can't enter more than once, but I recently, unrelated to this contest, made a card with a pile of 20, so it fits the theme pretty well.  Play-tested it and had a lot of fun with it.  Thought I'd include it here, but my Tutelage card from earlier in the thread is my entry to the contest (not this).  So, just for fun: Mice.

The key to playing Mice is that you have just enough of them, but not too many. It might be very dangerous to play with Mice without any control of your deck.  They can get out of control very easily.  If you don't have enough of them, don't worry, they'll take care of that on their own!



This is interesting. How did it play? It looks rather strong as it is essentially non terminal and can produce up to $4. How often did that happen?

It can produce any amount of $ (up to the number of Mice in your deck) AFAICS. E.g. you can get $20 Mice if you reveal 19 Mice in a row.

As long as at least half the Actions in your hand are non-Mice, Mice is essentially a non-terminal treasure card that's either better than Gold ($4+), or gives you a copy of itself for free.

I completely missed that. Yeah, I can see this being really strong with enough Mice in your deck.

I'm sure I can't enter more than once, but I recently, unrelated to this contest, made a card with a pile of 20, so it fits the theme pretty well.  Play-tested it and had a lot of fun with it.  Thought I'd include it here, but my Tutelage card from earlier in the thread is my entry to the contest (not this).  So, just for fun: Mice.

The key to playing Mice is that you have just enough of them, but not too many. It might be very dangerous to play with Mice without any control of your deck.  They can get out of control very easily.  If you don't have enough of them, don't worry, they'll take care of that on their own!


This is interesting. How did it play? It looks rather strong as it is essentially non terminal and can produce up to $4. How often did that happen?
I had several hands of all Mice.  There was decent trashing, so I could get it back under control. We have very few extra actions on the board, so a hand of all Mice was definitely bad. Of course, with all Mice, it is terminal. I think it needs a lot more testing on a wider variety of boards, but it was for sure interesting.

Yeah, I can see them being a problem at some times, but as mentioned above revealing a bunch of Mice in a row can pay off in a big way. I imagine it will be very dependent if the pile is contested and if there are ways to trash your Copper. Cool idea never the less.
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Mahowrath

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #114 on: March 19, 2021, 08:51:29 pm »
+3

24 hour-ish notice: please post any updates to submissions below this post. The submissions I have are:

UserEntry
pubbyDolmen
AquilaExpedition Camp
gambit05Revenant
X-traInstitute (+ Grant)
Xen3kPigeon
mandioca15Stockade
fika monsterRing Master + Circus Members
infangthiefFlorist
majiponiDevil’s advocate (+ Reverse Hierarchy)
mxdataDistant Island
NoMoreFunKey to the City
faustTulip + Rare Tulip
silverspawnMissionary
grepArmy of the Dead
GubumpDeveloping City
emtzalexAstrologer + Zodiac pile
The AlchemistAir + Water + Earth + Fire
DunnoItAllMice
spinefluGentry
spheremonkCaravel + Carrack
TiminouRabbit

@mxdata: Can I confirm you're looking to have your updated entry judged: the set aside version rather than the tavern mat version?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 10:50:46 pm by Mahowrath »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #115 on: March 19, 2021, 09:59:07 pm »
+2

24 hour-ish notice: please post any updates to submissions below this post. The submissions I have are:

UserEntry
pubbyDolmen
AquilaExpedition Camp
gambit05Revenant
X-traInstitute (+ Grant)
Xen3kPigeon
mandioca15Stockade
fika monsterRing Master + Circus Members
infangthiefFlorist
majiponiDevil’s advocate (+ Reverse Hierarchy)
mxdataDistant Island
NoMoreFunKey to the City
faustTulip + Rare Tulip
silverspawnMissionary
grepArmy of the Dead
GubumpDeveloping City
emtzalexAstrologer + Zodiac pile
The AlchemistAir + Water + Earth + Fire
DunnoItAllTutelage + Noble Knight + Traits
spinefluGentry
spheremonkCaravel + Carrack
TiminouRabbit

@mxdata: Can I confirm you're looking to have your updated entry judged: the set aside version rather than the tavern mat version?

Yes, the updated set-aside version is the one I'm submitting
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #116 on: March 19, 2021, 10:04:13 pm »
+2

24 hour-ish notice: please post any updates to submissions below this post. The submissions I have are:

UserEntry
pubbyDolmen
AquilaExpedition Camp
gambit05Revenant
X-traInstitute (+ Grant)
Xen3kPigeon
mandioca15Stockade
fika monsterRing Master + Circus Members
infangthiefFlorist
majiponiDevil’s advocate (+ Reverse Hierarchy)
mxdataDistant Island
NoMoreFunKey to the City
faustTulip + Rare Tulip
silverspawnMissionary
grepArmy of the Dead
GubumpDeveloping City
emtzalexAstrologer + Zodiac pile
The AlchemistAir + Water + Earth + Fire
DunnoItAllTutelage + Noble Knight + Traits
spinefluGentry
spheremonkCaravel + Carrack
TiminouRabbit

@mxdata: Can I confirm you're looking to have your updated entry judged: the set aside version rather than the tavern mat version?

I'd like to change my entry to Mice instead of Tutelage if that's allowed.
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Mahowrath

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #117 on: March 20, 2021, 08:11:06 pm »
+3

Okay, that's the deadline. I'll aim to dispense feedback and announce the winner by this time tomorrow.
It's going to be quite the task; so many creative entries!
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #118 on: March 20, 2021, 08:21:42 pm »
0

Deadline: Entries by 23:59 (GMT) Saturday 20th. Will put out a 24-hour reminder Friday night, and list the nominations I've seen.

Okay, that's the deadline. I'll aim to dispense feedback and announce the winner by this time tomorrow.
It's going to be quite the task; so many creative entries!

Oh no!  I was just opening up the computer now to try to put something together.

Ah, I see now... you said GMT, not forum time. :-(  Oh well, I'll try for next week's contest.
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Mahowrath

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #119 on: March 20, 2021, 09:37:20 pm »
0

@mathdude If it's submitted in the next few hours I'll still allow it
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #120 on: March 20, 2021, 10:11:25 pm »
+3

@mathdude If it's submitted in the next few hours I'll still allow it

Thanks.  I'll just try to submit for the next contest.  I didn't have anything ready to submit yet... it was just the first time I had time to sit down and think after a busy week.

But I have moved on to lesson planning (teaching high school math!) and the mafia forum.  So I'll pass this time... and I'll pay more attention to the timezone next time!
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Mahowrath

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #121 on: March 21, 2021, 10:58:43 pm »
+8

Judgement

First off, thanks again to everyone that entered. There were a great deal of high quality entries, and it pained me having to go through your creative cards with a fine tooth comb looking for reasons to avoid shortlisting them. If I sound dismissive or unappreciative in any of my feedback, please put it down to time constraints; I enjoyed reading every entry.
Needless to say, there's a limit to how well I can estimate the playability of entries without going to gambit05 playtesting lengths, and I apologise in advance for any margin of error on my part.

Feedback:

userentry nameLinknotes
pubbyDolmenhttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864160#msg864160Nice entry from pubby: Dolmen asks how Dominion would differ with a victory card "stopper" under each supply pile. This makes an early 3-pile less likely, particularly in 2P where VCs are often looked down upon in favour of building. Posible downsides are the 4+ multiplayer swinginess of who randomly gets the first shot at each Dolmen, and in 2P we'd have to see whether a 13 card Province pile substantially increases the first player advantage
AquilaExpedition Camphttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864179#msg864179Resources are a cool addition; they're like spare parts for engine-crafting. The ability to check the second card when buying introduces a degree of luck, but helps get past the unwanted resources in a given game. Expedition camp is a cheap Outpost in the rare circumstances that you can set up the second turn, but more often than not looks to be a one-shot resource gainer. The lack of control over what resources you're gaining looks frustrating here, unless you're just playing a generic Action-based strategy.
gambit05Revenanthttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864183#msg864183Revenant brings those often taken for granted +Actions and +Buy to the table, in an often limited pile, with a one-shot card draw ability for the late game. I assume the modified pile size functions to bring the one-shot ability into play faster in small games, but I wouldn't expect this to pile in such games unless the actions or buy were valuable enough that you wouldn't wish to part with them.
X-traInstitute + Granthttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864189#msg864189Increasing the starting deck size is new to me; I'm a big fan of how this blows open the typical opening. These cards complement eachother well; institute is likely your go-to draw card in this action-sparse deck, and in a 4-4-4 split (27.5% odds) you could open 3 of them. For completeness, the other opening splits occur with probabilities: 5-4-3: 65.9%, 5-5-2: 6.6% My first thought was that grant is too harsh on anyone trying to build an engine; that said, I think there is potential for avid engine fans to trash their grants on the second shuffle where the pieces are present. This would certainly make for a memorable game.
Xen3kPigeonhttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864191#msg864191I enjoyed this card's flavour; pigeons are indeed the rats of the bird kingdom. The lonely pigeon is a self-gaining Copper, but collides to cantrip+silver. This walks the fine line of being an easily gained nuisance, without quite fully sabotaging your game.
mandioca15Stockadehttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864198#msg864198Interesting concept; as the game goes on, you could see this pile self-balancing. Having to return these from play when you start greening is a drawback, but more than made up for by the sheer amount of early/mid game draw. You'd likely let this do all your drawing while you build towards a three-pile, and it would do it easily; your first play of it could well be a full deck draw. This will all too often be an unskippable card in 2P, which makes it rather unfortunate if your opponent picks this up on a 5-2. I'm not sure how I'd balance this; but one thing you could consider is splitting the stacks into tiers, and drawing an amount depending on which tier the top card in the supply belongs to? Regardless, best of luck perfecting this idea.
fika monsterRing Master + Circus Membershttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864216#msg864216This is fun; and appeals to my inner set-completionist. That said, I'm a little concerned by the power of the circus members; a 5-gainer is already rare at $5, but these cards, though limited, clearly transcend $5 value. Maybe Ring Master would enjoy costing more; or there could be another implementation for gaining circus members other than from a pile of gainers from which you'd only ever want one or two at most? Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you do with these guys.
infangthiefFlorist http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864219#msg864219Florist is a cantrip that gives you some control over the events pile from which it is gained. The idea certainly works, and I agree with the decisions made to avoid swinginess. With this card, either the top flower is useful and the card is gained organically, or a lower flower is game-changing and encourages buying a Florist directly. Either way though, I'm not convinced this adds enough to the game.
majiponiDevil’s advocate (+ Reverse Hierarchy)http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864286#msg864286Devil's advocate asks whether you prefer cash or trash, and how much you mind giving the next player the trashier version of the card. I think there are a lot of situations in 2P where you simply don't ever buy this first.
mxdataDistant Islandhttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864288#msg864288Distant Island is a strong precursor for any players looking to start greening. For the extra coin, it significantly beats Island in that it requires less draw and actions to perform its task. You would only ever buy Duchy in preference ot this if the game were ending, or you couldn't manage deck control. I feel sorry for Duchy in games with this.
NoMoreFunKey to the Cityhttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864291#msg864291Key to the City takes the existing Key concept and runs with it. Depending on how awkward it is to pick up a $2, you may find yourself trying to get this in early, or just fighting it when your opponent gets one into play. Could be stalematey when both players have one in deck. Constantly having to empty the pile to thwart your opponents' key could be tedious.
faustTulip + Rare Tuliphttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864292#msg864292Tulip is sort of a Spoils that gains you a Rare Tulip. The interaction here is pretty neat; if one plays with these and then draws their whole deck with the tulip pile low, they can potentially buy out tulips, draw one in with rare tulip, play a tulip, buy a tulip, play a rare tulip... to duplicate their rare tulips at a price of -$1. Is this worthwhile? Probably, particularly if you can prevent the Tulips from returning to the supply.
silverspawnMissionaryhttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864307#msg864307Missionary asks the question "how much do you love terminal card draw?". Naturally this depends on whether there are villages in the kingdom. In most cases there are, and having your draw buy itself is difficult to turn down, even if the uncontested pile would end up gaining you 20.
grepArmy of the Deadhttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864341#msg864341This looks entertaining. $8@8 seems a reasonable price for this project if you can spike it first. The first mover advantage on it could be considered swingy mind.
GubumpDeveloping Cityhttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864387#msg864387This is an interesting card, and I think I also prefer the updated version. Developing City is kind of a one-shot Lost City, with the option to sacrifice another action for two of itself. Coupled with a workshop variant, this can be a deferred Lost City, plus any WV perks granted, or at least until either pile runs dry. I like it.
emtzalexAstrologer + Zodiac pilehttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864436#msg864436Astrologer is an interesting card to consider. With few enough in your opponents' hands, you may be able to build around them becoming one of the later effects, but such a strategy would require a lot of profitless setup, and could easily fall apart. More likely, you and your opponent would only buy some to take advantage of the early village zodiacs, and an underterminaled turn could still then see a player ruin them for everyone. Perhaps these are best spammed with gainers, and cycled to the nearest useful non-terminal option.
The AlchemistAir + Water + Earth + Firehttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864457#msg864457This is a novel idea, and does a good job matching elements to effects. The effects are generally pretty strong, though as you say, some more essential than others, depending on the kingdom. Earth seems the most likely to be a dead card, and players have little incentive to remove dead cards from atop the pile.
DunnoItAllMicehttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864698#msg864698Mice feels like a deceptively weak-looking card. Opening with two of these, one could reasonably expect to gain another two T3, and gaining two mice or being in the money from there on out. Throwing in a trasher might be worthwhile, but I would expect a monolithic mice deck to be pretty happy greening in no time. I appreciate this quick analysis probably pales in comparison to your playtesting; it would be fun to see how this played out in your games.
spinefluGentryhttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864481#msg864481This works for sure; a card similar to Great Hall, but more malleable to available draw/actions. Groom aficionados will be ecstatic to work their way through 16 of these. Gentry is fine.
spheremonkCaravel + Carrackhttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864522#msg864522This is cute. Caravel is an expensive peddler variant that becomes easily worth the investment if you can collide them for Carracks. A good card, up against strong competition.
TiminouRabbithttp://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20714.msg864570#msg864570Rabbit takes a little unrewarded investment to get started, but evens out once you can make a pair collide. With the use of throne room variants, you can milk a huge amount of value out of these, but otherwise these are a fairly static payload. I'm not fully convinced the gaining effect justifies the pile size tweak, but I appreciate the effort.

With all that in mind, our runners up are:
6th: Timinou's Rabbit
5th: pubby's Dolmen
4th: faust's Tulip + Rare Tulip

3rd: X-tra's Institute + Grant
2nd: Gubump's Developing City

And the winner:
1st: Xen3k's Pigeon

Quote from: Xen3k


Congrats Xen3k! Your scourge of a card nosed out in front of the competition for the novel way in which it unassumingly creates chaos, while creatively taking to the challenge requirement of varying a pile/deck size.

Thanks everyone
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #122 on: March 22, 2021, 05:02:41 am »
0

Pigeon is a weird card. I think there are boards where it is optimal for both players to never do anything if Pigeon is in the kingdom (think Wall with no trashing). That seems... problematic, to say the least.
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infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #123 on: March 22, 2021, 06:24:14 am »
+1

Well judged. Some great entries.

Pigeon is a weird card. I think there are boards where it is optimal for both players to never do anything if Pigeon is in the kingdom (think Wall with no trashing). That seems... problematic, to say the least.

Xen3k, I wonder if you could avoid this by making the penalty per-player, rather than global. i.e. buying a card from a pile unlocks that pile for you, but no-one else.
Having a nest token per player per pile would get much too fiddly, but how about this wording:

Quote
Pigeon - $4
Action
+1 Action
+$1
You may discard a Pigeon for +1 Card and +$1. Otherwise, gain a Pigeon.
----
When you buy a card, if there is no copy of it on your Pigeon mat, put one there from the Supply and gain a Pigeon.

Some side effects:
  • all supply piles would be effectively smaller. You could mitigate some of the effects of that by adding "In games using this, you may buy or gain cards from your Pigeon mat."
  • weirdness with split piles, Knights, Castles etc.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #108: How Deep is your Pile?
« Reply #124 on: March 22, 2021, 07:33:46 am »
+1

MahoWrath, thanks for Judging! I'll try to have the new competition up later today. Thanks for your work!

Well judged. Some great entries.

Pigeon is a weird card. I think there are boards where it is optimal for both players to never do anything if Pigeon is in the kingdom (think Wall with no trashing). That seems... problematic, to say the least.

Xen3k, I wonder if you could avoid this by making the penalty per-player, rather than global. i.e. buying a card from a pile unlocks that pile for you, but no-one else.
Having a nest token per player per pile would get much too fiddly, but how about this wording:

Quote
Pigeon - $4
Action
+1 Action
+$1
You may discard a Pigeon for +1 Card and +$1. Otherwise, gain a Pigeon.
----
When you buy a card, if there is no copy of it on your Pigeon mat, put one there from the Supply and gain a Pigeon.

Some side effects:
  • all supply piles would be effectively smaller. You could mitigate some of the effects of that by adding "In games using this, you may buy or gain cards from your Pigeon mat."
  • weirdness with split piles, Knights, Castles etc.

Good ideas, alternate options would be to take the best token and gain a Pigeon unless you already have a certain number of tokens. Still does not completely address the criticism,  but is something.
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