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[faust]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

What is towncoring?

[Jimmmmm]

I believe that post is part of RSP though.

I'm not really sure what you're saying; you brought this up. ("Believe" in that sentence was meant to be tongue-in-cheek - maybe she's a very convincing android?) There are plenty of situations in which "man" is used in a non-gender-specific way, however you're right that it's probably better form to say 3-person team.

[Rhand]

About Eddie: It was already kind of established that he is third party I think. I don't think I necessarily believe that what he told Dylan was true. Seems like a good way to maybe get scum to claim and thus end up with a result that you can share, so there's definitely a pro-town angle here. It's weirder that Dylan didn't claim, I don't see a town reason for that.

Vote: Dylan

Because he didn’t believe Eddie was telling the full truth. Which is what you also don’t necessarily believe, so you’ve answered your own question.
And mafia!Dylan would’ve taken the recruit.

vote Faust

[faust]

About Eddie: It was already kind of established that he is third party I think. I don't think I necessarily believe that what he told Dylan was true. Seems like a good way to maybe get scum to claim and thus end up with a result that you can share, so there's definitely a pro-town angle here. It's weirder that Dylan didn't claim, I don't see a town reason for that.

Vote: Dylan

Because he didn’t believe Eddie was telling the full truth. Which is what you also don’t necessarily believe, so you’ve answered your own question.
And mafia!Dylan would’ve taken the recruit.

vote Faust

He doesn't need to believe that Eddie is telling the full truth. Only mafia!Dylan needs to worry about Eddie lying, as that would mean he's outed as scum. Town!Dylan is already outed.

[Rhand]

About Eddie: It was already kind of established that he is third party I think. I don't think I necessarily believe that what he told Dylan was true. Seems like a good way to maybe get scum to claim and thus end up with a result that you can share, so there's definitely a pro-town angle here. It's weirder that Dylan didn't claim, I don't see a town reason for that.

Vote: Dylan

Because he didn’t believe Eddie was telling the full truth. Which is what you also don’t necessarily believe, so you’ve answered your own question.
And mafia!Dylan would’ve taken the recruit.

vote Faust

He doesn't need to believe that Eddie is telling the full truth. Only mafia!Dylan needs to worry about Eddie lying, as that would mean he's outed as scum. Town!Dylan is already outed.

Eh hm I overlooked a scenario.
Let’s see what Eddie has to say.

Vote GHS

[faust]

Reminder that colons are necessary if you want your vote to count.

[Rhand]

Oh thanks. Bad homesite habits

I guess that means my vote is still where I want it to be.
Are abbreviations for names ok?

[2.71828.....]

Oh thanks. Bad homesite habits

I guess that means my vote is still where I want it to be.
Are abbreviations for names ok?

Abbreviations are good unless it is not discernable to the mods who you are referring to.

But yes, please vote again utilizing a colon

Also, I only caught this because it was the last post, please utilize bold font or your personal qt for questions directed at the mods

[Jimmmmm]

GHS

I think people jumped on this as being too generic? On the one hand I think it's an improvement on setup talk. On the other hand,  I don't think with a group this size these big lists with one or fewer lines per person are really doing much. The most helpful sentence is "Glooble and chairs seem the most scum", but that does nothing to make me think they are, and it's hardly a commitment to a scumread. Perhaps there's an argument that it's forming fake reads for the sake of having them, but really everyone's trying to form reads. If the purpose of this post is to help him keep people straight then that's great, but it's not really any better here than in his personal notes. So, I guess that's a roundabout way of saying I think this is null and hopefully it's expanded on.


And... that's it in for GHS. I think he's null, but am keeping an eye out for some more useful content from him.

[Jimmmmm]

Darn it, messed that post up.

[Jimmmmm]

GHS (Take 2)

This is a good point to put into the considerations for what to do. I'm all for a chairs lynch because joth seems towny but I think we should hear from everyone and iron out a theft-decision before we hammer.

Everything before this was setup discussion, house discussion, which I'm not super interested in. Someone pointed out that it was very early in the Day and very far from the hammer to be worried about getting things done before the hammer. I agree it's a little strange, but I'm not sure it's scummy. To me it just seems like someone who's not aware of how quickly lynches do or don't happen here.

I think people jumped on this as being too generic? On the one hand I think it's an improvement on setup talk. On the other hand,  I don't think with a group this size these big lists with one or fewer lines per person are really doing much. The most helpful sentence is "Glooble and chairs seem the most scum", but that does nothing to make me think they are, and it's hardly a commitment to a scumread. Perhaps there's an argument that it's forming fake reads for the sake of having them, but really everyone's trying to form reads. If the purpose of this post is to help him keep people straight then that's great, but it's not really any better here than in his personal notes. So, I guess that's a roundabout way of saying I think this is null and hopefully it's expanded on.


And... that's it in for GHS. I think he's null, but am keeping an eye out for some more useful content from him.

[faust]

GHS

I thought I was next. So sad.

[Jimmmmm]

GHS

I thought I was next. So sad.

I'm attacking both ends, and it's easier to get player's done who have fewer posts. I might get Galz done tonight and then you first tomorrow.

[Jimmmmm]

players* ew

[Jimmmmm]

Galz.

In summary, Galz voted joth for the suggestion to no-lynch and for voting chairs for coming out against it (and said that votes on chairs were bad). He wanted to vote for MiX for making assumptions about scum using spheres, but conceded Town MiX also makes assumptions.

vote: faust

Unfortunately I think Dylan is correct here in that by the time he got on it was too late to push back against this, and thus at this time claiming was the right play.

I also believe that scum likely gain far more value from knowing Dylan than town - and that scum likely didn’t give two hoots about having that potential fake claim “taken away”. I’ve never once played in a game where scum has gone “damn, if only I hadn’t lost the ability to fake claim that one role!”.

I believe faust used the pretext of outting a role that he can argue is anti-town for pro-scum motives.

I don't really buy arguments about scum coming out and making big plays early in the game. I think almost always the grand total of what scum wants from a Day is to come out of it intact and looking Towny, especially early on when there's so much uncertainty.

And something bugs me about this post. It's so... matter-of-fact. I guess it's the way he progresses from talking about his opinion on what happened, to his opinion about scum gains and Town gains, to his belief that faust is scum and made a scum move. "Scum gains more from outing PRs" and "faust is scum" are very different types of belief, but here they're presented in much the same way and read to me in much the same tone. Maybe it's just me and my aversion to stating any kind of certainty when it's not completely there, but I have a hard time seeing someone truly believing they've caught scum for something like this so early in the game.

So... I don't know. But I'm putting Galz down as a moderate scum read.

[MiX]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

What is towncoring?

Towncoring is establishing a bunch of townreads, around 1/3th of the game, publicly, and never considering they're scum for the rest of D1 in hopes that a lot of people do this so you find a group of players that everyone, including themselves, are townreading. That group becomes "town core", and now they can talk about other players among themselves and vote as a group, etc without risking being the lynch. It's a way to sort players by towniest instead of scummiest. It also seperates scum into "powerwolves", which is trying and being in the town core, and the rest, which can be useful.

It's not very useful, as starting from scumreads is better than from townreads. Overall it makes it pretty clear which scum are being lynched in order: you lynch low effort first. Our system's much better.

So, who's the Awaclus we're mislynching this game?

[Rhand]

The best system is a mix really. Figuring out who is not scum is just as important as figuring out who is.

[Rhand]

vote: GHS

[faust]

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

It not an issue if you change reads. I use lists of towny people to narrow the lynchpool in large games like this, and then I kind of don't look back too much on the people I already excluded I think from context it's now clear that you were not doing that, but then I'm not sure I see the value of posting those reads at all.

tbh i'm trying to do what you describe because mafiauniverse really pushes towncoring hard and im trying to practice it. but uh i'm not used to thinking about the game this way and i'm still getting a handle on it.

What is towncoring?

Towncoring is establishing a bunch of townreads, around 1/3th of the game, publicly, and never considering they're scum for the rest of D1 in hopes that a lot of people do this so you find a group of players that everyone, including themselves, are townreading. That group becomes "town core", and now they can talk about other players among themselves and vote as a group, etc without risking being the lynch. It's a way to sort players by towniest instead of scummiest. It also seperates scum into "powerwolves", which is trying and being in the town core, and the rest, which can be useful.

It's not very useful, as starting from scumreads is better than from townreads. Overall it makes it pretty clear which scum are being lynched in order: you lynch low effort first. Our system's much better.

So, who's the Awaclus we're mislynching this game?

I disagree that starting from scumreads is better. It's much easier to find a bunch of people who are town for sure then it is to find scum. I'm not sure how it correlates to effort, I don't see a reason why low effort people cannot be in the "town core".

The main problem with this is you give scum all the data to find the most effective nightkill. It's better to talk about who you think is scummy, but it's still very good to think about who's towny.

[faust]

So, who's the Awaclus we're mislynching this game?

I like to think that Rhand's post is a reply to this:

vote: GHS

[MiX]

So, who's the Awaclus we're mislynching this game?

I like to think that Rhand's post is a reply to this:

vote: GHS

Not bad. I thought it was chairs, but he might be scum.

[faust]

Request prod on scolapasta

Request vote count

[2.71828.....]

Request prod on scolapasta

Request vote count

Prod sent

On mobile, will do one when I get home unless mail-mi does it first.

[mail-mi]

"I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?"

—Collected on Vevanev 1173, 107 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an out-of-work Veden sailor

Vote Count 1.5

jotheonah (1): hypercube
chairs (2): jotheonah, WestCoastDidds
GreatHallScout (1): Rhand
scolapasta (1): Uncleeurope
faust (1): Galzria
Glooble (2): LaLight, Dylan32
hypercube (3): EFHW, MiX, Glooble
Uncleeurope (2): chairs, cayvie
Dylan32 (1): faust

Not Voting (4): scolapasta, GreatHallScout, Jimmmmm, Swowl

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 3:00pm FT on June 12, 2020.

[Glooble]

This is a mess. We need to consolidate.