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[Donald X.]

The new expansion, Dominion: Menagerie, has been officially announced. Hey isn't that the name of a card?

Official page: http://riograndegames.com/Game/1350-Dominion-Menagerie

Functionality blurb: "This is the 13th expansion to Dominion. It has 400 cards, with 30 new Kingdom cards. There are Horses that save a draw for later, Exile mats that cards can be sent to and rescued from, and Ways that give Actions another option. Events return."

Edit: Also we currently expect it March 18.

[ephesos]

So we have +$ as a token, +Action as a token, and now, +Card as a token (I assume that's how Horses will work). Now we just need +Buy as a token to complete the vanilla set.

[MeNowDealWithIt]

So we have +$ as a token, +Action as a token, and now, +Card as a token (I assume that's how Horses will work). Now we just need +Buy as a token to complete the vanilla set.

And +VP as a token

oh... wait...

[Gamer3000]

Is there gonna be a squirrel card?

[Donald X.]

That image has the wrong color for the box. I reported that to Jay already.

[teamlyle]

At my old school a bunch of Dominion noobs wanted to make a set called "Dominion: Zoo." Little did they know that 4 years later...

[spineflu]

So we have +$ as a token, +Action as a token, and now, +Card as a token (I assume that's how Horses will work). Now we just need +Buy as a token to complete the vanilla set.

unless Horse is a kingdom card that goes to the tavern mat and can be called at the beginning of a turn for +draw

edit: i guess it could also be a non-supply card. that'd make sense, with other stuff awarding horses.

[Eran of Arcadia]

We already have the dog, goat and two rats mentioned by the flavor text, now I really just want a turtle.

[mxdata]

The Exile mat sounds interesting.  I'm guessing it's kinda like the Tavern mat from Adventures, except apparently not restricted to a certain type of card.  Presumably there's an Action card that says something like "Choose one: Send a card from your hand to the Exile mat or put a card from the Exile mat into your hand"?  So, sort of like Island except not permanent?  And I *really* want to know what this "Ways" thing is.  Can't wait to see the previews for the set!

[TheAgileBeast]

Exile mat sounds exciting. My guess is it's a way to get Saboteur-like cards to work. You can "trash" your opponents cards by sending them to the Exile, but the player always has the ability to get them back by doing certain things. Could be very fun. Also maybe make one-shot type cards more interesting? Since you can get them back after "trashing" a.k.a exiling them.

[mxdata]

Exile mat sounds exciting. My guess is it's a way to get Saboteur-like cards to work. You can "trash" your opponents cards by sending them to the Exile, but the player always has the ability to get them back by doing certain things. Could be very fun. Also maybe make one-shot type cards more interesting? Since you can get them back after "trashing" a.k.a exiling them.

Seems like it would be kind of a weak attack if that's how it works, since it would only temporarily take a card out of your deck

[pubby]

Updated box-art scans leaking on BGG:

[mxdata]

"you’re like an elephant: you remember everything. And you’re afraid of mice" I wonder if this is means there's some kind of interaction between two cards called Elephant and Mouse (or Mice)?  Maybe they're a split pile?

[Willvon]

This sounds fantastic. I cannot wait. Early March will now be reserved for not just March Madness, but also for Dominion: Menagerie previews. Thank you so much, Donald and Jay, for continuing to feed our hunger for more Dominion.

[ossiangrr]

+Card as a token (I assume that's how Horses will work).

Don't you think you're putting the card before the horse?




 

[Chappy7]

I hope there is a platypus card.

In all seriousness though, I'm so pumped for more Dominion content.  There are already more expansions than I originally anticipated, so each new one is just gravy.  I love it.

[segura]

The Exile mat sounds like it is used for a softer version of a trashing Attack.

[vishwathg]

When can we expect previews? Sometime in February?

[Donald X.]

When can we expect previews? Sometime in February?

Probably the last week of February or first week of March.

[Squidd]

"you’re like an elephant: you remember everything. And you’re afraid of mice" I wonder if this is means there's some kind of interaction between two cards called Elephant and Mouse (or Mice)?  Maybe they're a split pile?

Elephants being afraid of mice is a standard cliche. This is probably just a funny.

I believe the blacksmith who turns into a werewolf is the only time we've ever gotten an actual hint of card mechanics from the flavor text. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[spineflu]

"you’re like an elephant: you remember everything. And you’re afraid of mice" I wonder if this is means there's some kind of interaction between two cards called Elephant and Mouse (or Mice)?  Maybe they're a split pile?

Elephants being afraid of mice is a standard cliche. This is probably just a funny.

I believe the blacksmith who turns into a werewolf is the only time we've ever gotten an actual hint of card mechanics from the flavor text. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

clearly you've never had Rats irl.
They ate all my treasures, and all my estates.

[Squidd]

The Dark Ages *flavor text* doesn't even mention rats. It talks a lot about begging, in a way that says nothing about the gameplay of Beggar.

[spineflu]

ah, expansion flavor text. gotcha. misread your comment.

[mxdata]

Will there be a pre-order option on the website closer to the release date?

[Donald X.]

Will there be a pre-order option on the website closer to the release date?

Has there ever been? RGG sells to distributors, not players.

[mxdata]

Will there be a pre-order option on the website closer to the release date?

Has there ever been? RGG sells to distributors, not players.

Oh, I didn't realize that.  The expansions I have I bought either on Amazon or in store, but I'd just assumed that you could also buy directly from RGG.  Never mind then

[J Reggie]

Maybe Ways are another landscape kingdom thing like events, landmarks, and projects? And I can foresee the exile mat confusing converted Magic players.

[Snowyowl]

Maybe Ways are another landscape kingdom thing like events, landmarks, and projects?

Maybe! Perhaps they are things you can spend an Action to do, in the way that Events are things you can spend a Buy to do.

[mxdata]

Maybe Ways are another landscape kingdom thing like events, landmarks, and projects?

Maybe! Perhaps they are things you can spend an Action to do, in the way that Events are things you can spend a Buy to do.

Oh!  That would make sense, since the description says "Ways that give Actions another option".  I was thinking that meant it did something to Action cards, but that actually makes a lot more sense.  Perhaps it's something like "Use 1 action + $X to ______" or "Use 1 action and discard X cards to ______".  It seems like there'd have to be something more than just an action, since if it's just an Action, then that would be equivalent to an Action card that's automatically in every single hand.  It would have to be either very weak (like "use 1 Action to get $1") or would end up warping the game if it's strong, and neither option sounds especially fun

[Minotaur]

ok but it's not inception until there's a card called Alchemy

[crj]

Gngh! One month too late!

New sets seem to take weeks to reach the UK, and I'm going to be in the USA in February. So close to being able to pick up a set while out there. *sniff*

[Minotaur]

You should plan a small expansion called Chancellor and then cancel it.  And then release a larger one called Messenger.

You know what, forget it.  Never listen to a minotaur.

[werothegreat]

I argued for the set to be called Bestiary, but apparently that was too close to Bestiality for some peoples' tastes

[markusin]

I argued for the set to be called Bestiary, but apparently that was too close to Bestiality for some peoples' tastes

I personally think they made the right call on that one.

[trivialknot]

With 400 cards and only 30 kingdom cards, I wonder how the other 70 cards are accounted for.  70 events seems implausible, so maybe Horses are cards, or maybe Ways are implemented in a way that requires a lot of cards.

[GendoIkari]

With 400 cards and only 30 kingdom cards, I wonder how the other 70 cards are accounted for.  70 events seems implausible, so maybe Horses are cards, or maybe Ways are implemented in a way that requires a lot of cards.

Well, it's animal themed, so there could be some sort of "super-rat" pile that has 80 copies.

[spineflu]

"super-rat"

Capybaras?

[scolapasta]

With 400 cards and only 30 kingdom cards, I wonder how the other 70 cards are accounted for.  70 events seems implausible, so maybe Horses are cards, or maybe Ways are implemented in a way that requires a lot of cards.

Well, it's animal themed, so there could be some sort of "super-rat" pile that has 80 copies.

I'm assuming that Ways are Landscape cards (like discussed above, the equivalent of Events for Actions).

When Events, Landmarks, and Projects first came up out there were 20, 21, 20 of those, so 20 seems a safe assumption. Add 10 events (Empires added 13, so <20 seems to make sense), that's 30 of the 70.

The remaining for 40 would then be, like GendoIkari, said, some super sized piles, or also other non supply piles related to the 30 Kingdom cards. (or if one extra pile is only 8, 12 cards for a Victory card pile).

As you can see, I'm assuming that Horses are just the name for card tokens, like Villagers for action tokens, and Coffers for coin tokens.

The question I'm interested in is, assuming that's true, when can you use the Horses? Villagers are only during Action phase, and Coffers only during Buy phase. Will Horses be limited to just one phase? or anytime?

Limiting to Action phase doesn't stop you from using them right *before* your Buy phase to draw extra Treasure. I guess they could be only during cleanup (drawing for your next hand), but that seems way too limiting.

[J Reggie]

Oh man, I really hope Horses are implemented in a way that cards say +1 Horse.

[crj]

I've long thought that the Menagerie card ought to have been called Zoo, just to cover another letter of the alphabet when it comes to card names.

Maybe it could be renamed now this expansion exists. (-8

[Awaclus]

If you're building a megaturn deck, you should hold your horses.

[mxdata]

Given that the description says "Horses that save a draw for later", I wonder if the way they'll work is that you actually draw one less card when you receive the Horse.  So, when you initially receive the Horse token it's like the -card token in Adventures, but then later when you use them, you get +1 card per token used (maybe you use them anytime you'd draw to get +1 card?  So, you couldn't simply use it before your buy phase to get another treasure, but you could use it before playing, say, a village to instead get +2 cards +2 actions, or at clean-up to get 6 cards in your next hand).  So you're saving the draw you would've gotten for later

[Minotaur]

Oh man, I really hope Horses are implemented in a way that cards say +1 Horse.

I was hoping for +1 Lab Rat, but I'll take it.

[LibraryAdventurer]

"super-rat"

Capybaras?

R.O.U.S.es

I argued for the set to be called Bestiary, but apparently that was too close to Bestiality for some peoples' tastes

I personally think they made the right call on that one.

Really?  If you see the word "Bestiary" and think of "Bestiality", you've got a pretty sick mind.

[FlyerBeast]

Here's hoping that every animal card has the Rats/Magpie mechanic, I want a kingdom of ten cards that gain copies of themselves...

[mxdata]

Here's hoping that every animal card has the Rats/Magpie mechanic, I want a kingdom of ten cards that gain copies of themselves...

Rabbit: "When you play this card, if it is the second Rabbit played this turn, gain the rest of the Rabbit pile"

[Wizard_Amul]

Given that the description says "Horses that save a draw for later", I wonder if the way they'll work is that you actually draw one less card when you receive the Horse.  So, when you initially receive the Horse token it's like the -card token in Adventures, but then later when you use them, you get +1 card per token used (maybe you use them anytime you'd draw to get +1 card?  So, you couldn't simply use it before your buy phase to get another treasure, but you could use it before playing, say, a village to instead get +2 cards +2 actions, or at clean-up to get 6 cards in your next hand).  So you're saving the draw you would've gotten for later

This is what I thought based on "save a draw," too. However, I wouldn't think you'd have to use a Horse token only when you are drawing cards but rather just any time in your action phase (like how you spend a villager).

[Kevin K]

Can't wait to play the powerful - Duck, Duck, Goose combo.

[Titandrake]

Given that the description says "Horses that save a draw for later", I wonder if the way they'll work is that you actually draw one less card when you receive the Horse.  So, when you initially receive the Horse token it's like the -card token in Adventures, but then later when you use them, you get +1 card per token used (maybe you use them anytime you'd draw to get +1 card?  So, you couldn't simply use it before your buy phase to get another treasure, but you could use it before playing, say, a village to instead get +2 cards +2 actions, or at clean-up to get 6 cards in your next hand).  So you're saving the draw you would've gotten for later

This is what I thought based on "save a draw," too. However, I wouldn't think you'd have to use a Horse token only when you are drawing cards but rather just any time in your action phase (like how you spend a villager).

Based on this being more complicated, I think Horses are just going to be +1 Card (possibly costing an action to use), and cards that give Horses will not give +Cards. This is how all the Coffers cards have worked in the past - they didn't give you +$1 but they gave you the option to use +$1.

I'm guessing Horses may have an added cost because non-terminal card draw has proven to be really good, and deferring your card draw until you have spare actions sounds strong and hard to balance.

The part I find funny is that back in 2012, I made a My Little Pony fan expansion whose central mechanic was "cards that let each opponent draw an extra card", and 7.5 years later Dominion canonically has Horses that let you draw cards.

[Saul Goodman]

Maybe Ways are another landscape kingdom thing like events, landmarks, and projects? And I can foresee the exile mat confusing converted Magic players.

I predict Ways will be like Teacher.  Teach actions to do additional things.  But instead of having to earn the Teacher, you buy the right to immediately add the Way to a Kingdom card that you choose.  Kind of like a Landmark and Project combined.

It would be a sideways card

For example, you spend $7 to add your "+1 Traveler" token to the Smithy pile.

Maybe you spend $9 to add a +1Horse to a pile.

Maybe you spend $6 to add a +1 Coffee to a pile.

And you have all the other Teacher tokens from Adventures, too.

[Saul Goodman]

Here's hoping that every animal card has the Rats/Magpie mechanic, I want a kingdom of ten cards that gain copies of themselves...

Rabbit: "When you play this card, if it is the second Rabbit played this turn, gain the rest of the Rabbit pile"

I cackled.

[segura]

Given that the description says "Horses that save a draw for later", I wonder if the way they'll work is that you actually draw one less card when you receive the Horse.  So, when you initially receive the Horse token it's like the -card token in Adventures, but then later when you use them, you get +1 card per token used (maybe you use them anytime you'd draw to get +1 card?  So, you couldn't simply use it before your buy phase to get another treasure, but you could use it before playing, say, a village to instead get +2 cards +2 actions, or at clean-up to get 6 cards in your next hand).  So you're saving the draw you would've gotten for later

This is what I thought based on "save a draw," too. However, I wouldn't think you'd have to use a Horse token only when you are drawing cards but rather just any time in your action phase (like how you spend a villager).

Based on this being more complicated, I think Horses are just going to be +1 Card (possibly costing an action to use)

I am extremely sure that this is not going to be the case. That would make a Horse similar to a one-shot Moat.

I'm guessing Horses may have an added cost because non-terminal card draw has proven to be really good, and deferring your card draw until you have spare actions sounds strong and hard to balance.

Why non-terminal? If a card says +2 Horses, it is terminal. Sure, you can use the bonus at any time but that doesn't magically make it non-terminal. Just because Haunted Woods is a triple Lab next turn doesn't mean that it is non-terminal, it is dead when you play it.

[Titandrake]

It's card draw where you choose how much of it you want to use. Stockpiling extra draw you don't need, only drawing up to the end of your shuffle, etc. all sounds really strong. Non-terminal isn't the most precise word for it, but I would guess that in practice you usually use Horses when you have a free action available, or you're confident you won't draw an action dead.

Horses probably don't have an additional cost, but I do expect that cards with Horses will look overcosted until you play with them.

[Minotaur]

Chief Subordinate Horse Officer, 1st Class
Action-Duration
Cost: <12>

At the start of each turn for the rest of the game: +1 Horse.

[Minotaur]

...or Mr. Ed for short

[Hockey Mask]

The game comes to a stand still when you play Possum.

[segura]

Stockpiling extra draw you don't need, only drawing up to the end of your shuffle, etc. all sounds really strong.

I agree and like to add that this it also facilitates megaturns.
On the other hand, relative to Villagers, the hypothetical +1 Buy token and Coffers, Horses are likely fairly weak. Normally you want to draw as much as possible, e.g. while you are still building to cycle.

[Saul Goodman]

The game comes to a stand still when you play Possum.

Possum
Action/Reaction/Duration
Cost 3 Coin

+2 Cards
Gain a Possum
This card stays in play until your next turn .  While in play, you are unaffected by attacks.
____________
When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this and send it to your exile mat.  If you do, you may send that players' attack card to their exile mat and that player gains The Skewer. 

When this is Trashed by another player, +1 coffer.

Set-up: This card may only be used in Kingdoms with three or more Attack Cards.

The Skewer (Artifact)

Once at the beginning of your turn while you have this, you may trash another player's Possum from play or from their Exile Mat.  If you do, +1 Action and return an attack card from your Exile Mat to your hand.

[markusin]

I argued for the set to be called Bestiary, but apparently that was too close to Bestiality for some peoples' tastes

I personally think they made the right call on that one.

Really?  If you see the word "Bestiary" and think of "Bestiality", you've got a pretty sick mind.

If your player base might complain about Witch being too occult why take chances. It's more about misreading it from far. Of course, I wouldn't expect any kids to make such a connection.

[crj]

On the other hand, relative to Villagers, the hypothetical +1 Buy token and Coffers, Horses are likely fairly weak. Normally you want to draw as much as possible, e.g. while you are still building to cycle.

It feels to me that a draw you can save for later is likely to be better than a coin you can save for later. If it isn't, the average card in your deck is less good than a Copper, and you're Doing It Wrong. (-8

And I bet people would be delighted to pay $4 for a Horsey Village that was +1 Horse, +2 Actions. For all I know that might even turn out to be underpriced.

[mxdata]

On the other hand, relative to Villagers, the hypothetical +1 Buy token and Coffers, Horses are likely fairly weak. Normally you want to draw as much as possible, e.g. while you are still building to cycle.

It feels to me that a draw you can save for later is likely to be better than a coin you can save for later. If it isn't, the average card in your deck is less good than a Copper, and you're Doing It Wrong. (-8

And I bet people would be delighted to pay $4 for a Horsey Village that was +1 Horse, +2 Actions. For all I know that might even turn out to be underpriced.

Yeah, if I already have $8 in hand, I would be delighted to have the chance to save the draws for another hand where I might only have $7.  So a horse village or horse lab would be really handy

Maybe a Horse Race that's similar to Chariot Race from Empire, except instead of gaining a victory token you gain a Horse token?

[trivialknot]

The interesting thing is that with coffers, you have vanilla cards.  You have baker, candlestick maker, and to a lesser extent plaza and villain.  But there aren’t really vanilla villager cards.  No cantrip that gives you villagers, just patron and maybe acting troupe.  I think vanilla villager cards just don’t work as well as cards like lackeys that put a limit on how many you can gain. 

The question is if horses are more like coffers or more like villagers.  I suspect they’re more like coffers, and vanilla horse cards would work just fine.  Consider an action that just says +1 action, +1 Horse.  Seems like a solid card idea to me.

[dz]

The interesting thing is that with coffers, you have vanilla cards.  You have baker, candlestick maker, and to a lesser extent plaza and villain.  But there aren’t really vanilla villager cards.  No cantrip that gives you villagers, just patron and maybe acting troupe.  I think vanilla villager cards just don’t work as well as cards like lackeys that put a limit on how many you can gain. 

The question is if horses are more like coffers or more like villagers.  I suspect they’re more like coffers, and vanilla horse cards would work just fine.  Consider an action that just says +1 action, +1 Horse.  Seems like a solid card idea to me.

It's more of a battle between simple things, and exciting things. The lack of vanilla villagers is mostly because of how unexciting and low-hanging fruit they are compared to e.g. Recruiter.

There was a village that was, cantrip, +1 Villager; man it's fine, you can argue about, does it need to cost $5, but it's nice. The village that's always there when you need it. But really, the experience it gives is the villager experience, and other cards are giving us that experience. Another village just came with +2 Villagers; we already have that experience too.

[mxdata]

If Horses are indeed tokens, I wonder if there'll be any cards with a "When you gain this, +1 Horse" on it, or maybe even a "when you trash this"

Maybe something like a Horse version of Plaza, "You may discard a card for +1 Horse"?

A kind of "delayed Apprentice"?  "Trash a card from your hand, +1 Horse per coin it costs"?

[Donald X.]

It's more of a battle between simple things, and exciting things. The lack of vanilla villagers is mostly because of how unexciting and low-hanging fruit they are compared to e.g. Recruiter.

There was a village that was, cantrip, +1 Villager; man it's fine, you can argue about, does it need to cost $5, but it's nice. The village that's always there when you need it. But really, the experience it gives is the villager experience, and other cards are giving us that experience. Another village just came with +2 Villagers; we already have that experience too.

I'm not against low-hanging fruit, and love to do vanilla stuff when I can. Acting Troupe and Lackeys are both exceptionally simple +villagers cards; sure they're not pure +'s but man, that's not the only way to be super simple.

Cantrip villager was the first villager card in the file. Soon there were a bunch though. It didn't provide an experience we weren't getting other ways, and eventually it was crowded out. It was fine, but every card is trying to add something, and what it added was just "villagers." That isn't always how it goes. Inventor is just a Bridge-Workshop, but the experience seemed different enough and there it is in the set.

Another thing is, if you have a sleek pretty vanilla card, wait this could be a good place to slap that when-gain or whatever you wanted to fit in the set somehow. Patron could have just been the top, but I had this ability to do and that was a good place to do it. So this also cuts into vanilla cards. And hey Baker has one of those, it's not vanilla at all, certainly not more vanilla than Lackeys and Acting Troupe.

[segura]

On the other hand, relative to Villagers, the hypothetical +1 Buy token and Coffers, Horses are likely fairly weak. Normally you want to draw as much as possible, e.g. while you are still building to cycle.

It feels to me that a draw you can save for later is likely to be better than a coin you can save for later. If it isn't, the average card in your deck is less good than a Copper, and you're Doing It Wrong. (-8

And I bet people would be delighted to pay $4 for a Horsey Village that was +1 Horse, +2 Actions. For all I know that might even turn out to be underpriced.

Sure, Lab is better than Peddler, a cantrip that yields a Horse is better than Baker. That's elementary.

My point was that the relative benefit of Horses to Cards is smaller than that of Coffers to Coins which is again smaller than that of Villagers to Actions (which is again likely similar to the relative benefit of Buy tokens to Buys).
Cards are simply the 'least necessary to save' vanilla thingy.

[Minotaur]

Knowing the next card of your deck could make horses worth more.  Or rather, make the ones you actually use effectively be worth more.  This is pretty hard to do on command on most boards, though...

Mounted Scouts
Project
Cost: <8>

Any time you could play an Action, you may look at the top X cards of your deck, where X is how many horses you have.

[Jeebus]

"Your menagerie got off to a poor start, with just a goat, two rats, and the advisor who suggested starting a menagerie."

I took this to be just a reference to earlier sets, not a clue about this one. After all, there can't be a Rats or Goat card in this one.

[hhelibebcnofnena]

"Your menagerie got off to a poor start, with just a goat, two rats, and the advisor who suggested starting a menagerie."

I took this to be just a reference to earlier sets, not a clue about this one. After all, there can't be a Rats or Goat card in this one.

Or Advisor, for that matter.

[Jeebus]

Or Menagerie, for that matter.

[Titandrake]

"Your menagerie got off to a poor start, with just a goat, two rats, and the advisor who suggested starting a menagerie."

I took this to be just a reference to earlier sets, not a clue about this one. After all, there can't be a Rats or Goat card in this one.

I mean, if your hand starts with 2 Rats in it, your Menagerie isn't going to activate. Meanwhile your Advisor is going to increase the odds you have duplicate cards, if your opponent is keeping track of what cards they gave you from previous Advisors. Sounds like a poor start to me.

[markusin]

"Your menagerie got off to a poor start, with just a goat, two rats, and the advisor who suggested starting a menagerie."

I took this to be just a reference to earlier sets, not a clue about this one. After all, there can't be a Rats or Goat card in this one.

I mean, if your hand starts with 2 Rats in it, your Menagerie isn't going to activate. Meanwhile your Advisor is going to increase the odds you have duplicate cards, if your opponent is keeping track of what cards they gave you from previous Advisors. Sounds like a poor start to me.

Have one of the rats eat the Advisor. That might help.

[ClouduHieh]

Dominion menagerie oh yeah! Awesome! I love animals! I volunteer at a zoo. When I made my own fan based expansions I did it with adding more animals to dominion. Now I can put that on hold while wait for my new favorite expansion. I can’t wait to see how the mechanics work in this expansion almost as much as which animals will be in this expansion. Thanks so much Donald for making a animal expansion for dominion. You are awesome!

[Hockey Mask]

Do we think it is likely that all the Kingdoms are animals or just 6-10?

[GendoIkari]

Do we think it is likely that all the Kingdoms are animals or just 6-10?

I'd assume basically no chance of them being all animals. At most, half of them.

[hhelibebcnofnena]

I hope there's at least enough animal cards that we can make an animal kingdom.

[crj]

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

(Good luck figuring out which cards match the theme of "hinterlands". (-8 )

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

[Jeebus]

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

I don't know if I would call that familiar an animal any more than I would call the Imp one.

[markusin]

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

(Good luck figuring out which cards match the theme of "hinterlands". (-8 )

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

Werewolf isn't any less animal related than Bat.

Edit: Also, my list had Pooka.

[GendoIkari]

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

Yeah but "on theme" here doesn't mean "is a card named after an animal".

[spineflu]

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

(Good luck figuring out which cards match the theme of "hinterlands". (-8 )

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

Werewolf isn't any less animal related than Bat.

wait do you think a werewolf isn't a person?

[hhelibebcnofnena]

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

Trusty Steed, Wolf Den, Goat, Bat, and Locusts aren't kingdom cards, so they don't belong in an animal kingdom. Familiar and Menagerie aren't specific animals. Stables and Horse Traders are humans or human-made things. Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, and Wild Hunt are killing animals, so I wouldn't count them in an animal kingdom. A werewolf is a person for 98.3% of their life, only become an animal for the 1.7% of their life which is a full moon.

So by my count, our current animal kingdom is Rats, Magpie, Faithful Hound. 7 to go.
If I were slightly less strict, I might include Familiar and/or Menagerie, bringing the needed amount down to 5.

[Jeebus]

Yes, if it's purely a kingdom of animals, it's 3. But I would include Menagerie, Stables and Horse Traders if it's an animal-themed kingdom, so that's 6.

I don't see why people keep saying Familiar, I guess they think it's a cat? Take a look at the card, it's just some fantasy creature.

[GendoIkari]

I don't see why people keep saying Familiar, I guess they think it's a cat? Take a look at the card, it's just some fantasy creature.

A fantasy creature is an animal basically by definition. Sure it's not an animal that exists in the real world, which sets it apart from something like Goat, but it's definitely an animal. (I guess the other difference is that it's not the name of an animal, but rather the name of a roll that an animal plays? So it's more like "livestock" or "pet").

[Jeebus]

I don't see why people keep saying Familiar, I guess they think it's a cat? Take a look at the card, it's just some fantasy creature.

A fantasy creature is an animal basically by definition. Sure it's not an animal that exists in the real world, which sets it apart from something like Goat, but it's definitely an animal. (I guess the other difference is that it's not the name of an animal, but rather the name of a roll that an animal plays? So it's more like "livestock" or "pet").

But then Golem, Imp and Will-o'-Wisp are also animals? (I know the latter two are not kingdom cards.)

Edit: Again, take a look at the card. The familiar on the card is depicted as a demon-like creature, not as a real animal that plays a role as a familiar. Familiars are familiar spirits that can appear "as animals, but also at times as humans or humanoid figures." (WP) In this case it's not an animal, it's a little demon-like fantastical creature.

[GendoIkari]

Familiars are familiar spirits that can appear "as animals, but also at times as humans or humanoid figures."

I didn't know this. I must not be as..... familiar with the subject as you!

[markusin]

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

(Good luck figuring out which cards match the theme of "hinterlands". (-8 )

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

Werewolf isn't any less animal related than Bat.

wait do you think a werewolf isn't a person?

The bat is actually the Vampire that transforms into the bat (you can't remove the Bat from the Vampire because Bat is not a kingdom card). Similarly, the Werewolf is a man that takes on a wolf form at night, perhaps depending on the moon. The wolf form is not shown on the card, so it might be an actual wolf or a "wolf-man".

So I say Werewolf isn't any less animal related than bat because both are humanoids transforming into animals.

[GendoIkari]

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

(Good luck figuring out which cards match the theme of "hinterlands". (-8 )

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

Werewolf isn't any less animal related than Bat.

wait do you think a werewolf isn't a person?

The bat is actually the Vampire that transforms into the bat (you can't remove the Bat from the Vampire because Bat is not a kingdom card). Similarly, the Werewolf is a man that takes on a wolf form at night, perhaps depending on the moon. The wolf form is not shown on the card, so it might be an actual wolf or a "wolf-man".

So I say Werewolf isn't any less animal related than bat because both are humanoids transforming into animals.

Yeah, in this case it's the difference between "Bat as a card name with no context" and "Bat as the name of a card that exists in Dominion, and isn't actually a real bat, but a form taken by a mythical creature".

[Minotaur]

Do we think it is likely that all the Kingdoms are animals or just 6-10?

I'd assume basically no chance of them being all animals. At most, half of them.

Do humans count in your classification?  Because you're expecting ships and buildings and inanimate objects for the other 50%.

[crj]

As a Monty Python fan, I'm going to be sad if there isn't some form of rabbit with a surprisingly strong attack, incidentally.

[ClouduHieh]

And don’t forget enchantress also had a pig in it.

[crj]

If we're going down the route of cards with animal in the art, even Village counts. Actually, at a quick glance, Harbinger, Merchant, Village, Gardens, Poacher, Market from the base set feature animals in the art. (-8

[Minotaur]

If we're going down the route of cards with animal in the art, even Village counts. Actually, at a quick glance, Harbinger, Merchant, Village, Gardens, Poacher, Market from the base set feature animals in the art. (-8

Poacher now counts as an attack and other players discard down to 5/4/3 cards in hand.

[ClouduHieh]

Enchantress didn’t just simply have a pig on it, whenever I played online my first action always had a picture of the pig on it when enchantress was in play hence my first action became the pig. So it was almost like pig was a separate Kingdom card.

Village, harbinger ect. Didn’t do that.

[Jeebus]

Enchantress didn’t just simply have a pig on it, whenever I played online my first action always had a picture of the pig on it when enchantress was in play hence my first action became the pig. So it was almost like pig was a separate Kingdom card.

Village, harbinger ect. Didn’t do that.

Right, but that's not part of the game: There is no rule that says that an Enchanted card should be replaced with a Pig card (and there is no Pig card). That's just a graphic representation chosen by the developer of the online client.

[Ingix]

Right, but that's not part of the game: There is no rule that says that an Enchanted card should be replaced with a Pig card (and there is no Pig card). That's just a graphic representation chosen by the developer of the online client.

And the reason was that we were getting lots of bug repoprts that said "card XYZ is not working, see my game number ...". Then it turned out there was an Enchantress played, that of course stopped the card XYZ doing what it normally does. This was due to several factors; the main one being the game doesn't show cards in play from the non-active player, so players could simply not see their opponent's Enchantress as they could in RL play.

So the choice was made to make it very clear that, if you are affected by an opponent's Enchantress, you can see that in advance in your personal status bar, and, most importantly, when you wanted to click on the first Action card that turn, you would see the Pig picture and be reminded that you get +1 Card, +1 Action.

[ClouduHieh]

All I’m saying is the pig had a more active roll than the horse in harbinger. Thanks of course to online version. At the end of day though any extra card or box that has a picture of an animal on it is cool, like for instance hinterlands box had a monkey on it cool. And getting a new expansion with some animals actually having a bigger role in the game. Awesome!

[spineflu]

Right, but that's not part of the game: There is no rule that says that an Enchanted card should be replaced with a Pig card (and there is no Pig card). That's just a graphic representation chosen by the developer of the online client.

And the reason was that we were getting lots of bug repoprts that said "card XYZ is not working, see my game number ...". Then it turned out there was an Enchantress played, that of course stopped the card XYZ doing what it normally does. This was due to several factors; the main one being the game doesn't show cards in play from the non-active player, so players could simply not see their opponent's Enchantress as they could in RL play.

So the choice was made to make it very clear that, if you are affected by an opponent's Enchantress, you can see that in advance in your personal status bar, and, most importantly, when you wanted to click on the first Action card that turn, you would see the Pig picture and be reminded that you get +1 Card, +1 Action.

this is a fascinating piece of insight into why the piggy cards exist.

[kieranmillar]

Dominion getting an animal themed expansion. Does this mean its jumped the shark?

 

[crj]

Empires contained Catapult, and a Catapult is tantamount to jumping the shark .

[mxdata]

I hope there's a card called Early Bird that allows you to gain a non-supply card called Worm

[Minotaur]

All I’m saying is the pig had a more active roll than the horse in harbinger.

Empty draw pile should be represented by a dead horse card.

[guidobass]

The game comes to a stand still when you play Possum.

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are!

[Violet CLM]

Hoping for a Wolf card that eats your Goat if you leave the two together, and likewise a Cabbage card that your Goat eats.

[Minotaur]

Hoping for a Wolf card that eats your Goat if you leave the two together, and likewise a Cabbage card that your Goat eats.

There has to be some kind of Traveler and mat sequence for this.  And some kind of absurd payoff.

[cactus]

“just as useless for sewing as you’d been warned” 

[cactus]

Lions, split pile. You gotta buy 5x Lions before you reach the 5x Christians. Play a Lion when you already have a Christian in play, +3 cards, trash any number of cards, +1VP per $1 cost of the cards you trashed.

No one could object to a card like that, right?

[greybirdofprey]

Lions, split pile. You gotta buy 5x Lions before you reach the 5x Christians. Play a Lion when you already have a Christian in play, +3 cards, trash any number of cards, +1VP per $1 cost of the cards you trashed.

No one could object to a card like that, right?

Is that a Daniel in the lion's den reference?

[Gubump]

Lions, split pile. You gotta buy 5x Lions before you reach the 5x Christians. Play a Lion when you already have a Christian in play, +3 cards, trash any number of cards, +1VP per $1 cost of the cards you trashed.

No one could object to a card like that, right?

Is that a Daniel in the lion's den reference?

I thought it was a reference to Nero, who would put Christians clothed in meat into a gladiator pit with a pack of wild animals who would then essentially eat that person alive.

[hhelibebcnofnena]

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)

[SuperHans]

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)

As is tradition, 36 days for me to figure out storage for this next set.

[hhelibebcnofnena]

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)

As is tradition, 36 days for me to figure out storage for this next set.

You figure it out in advance? That's probably smart. I just keep it in the original box until I can figure something out, which I inevitably don't get around to until months later. At least this time I managed to get around to Rennaissance storage a decent amount of time before the new one came out -- I think I didn't get around to Nocturne storage until about a week before Rennaissance.

[Tozar]

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)

As is tradition, 36 days for me to figure out storage for this next set.

You figure it out in advance? That's probably smart. I just keep it in the original box until I can figure something out, which I inevitably don't get around to until months later. At least this time I managed to get around to Rennaissance storage a decent amount of time before the new one came out -- I think I didn't get around to Nocturne storage until about a week before Rennaissance.

Alas, I still have Renaissance in the original box. 

[Donald X.]

With printing started, we continue to expect the expansion within a day or two of March 18.

Previews will be the first week of March.

[spineflu]

from a sleeving-planning perspective, the Events are included in that 400 cards? (or, Card-like things are included in the 400 cards?)

[Donald X.]

from a sleeving-planning perspective, the Events are included in that 400 cards? (or, Card-like things are included in the 400 cards?)

There are 400 cards, no more no less, and all of them are the usual size. There aren't any you would pass on sleeving.

[Doom_Shark]

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)

As is tradition, 36 days for me to figure out storage for this next set.

You figure it out in advance? That's probably smart. I just keep it in the original box until I can figure something out, which I inevitably don't get around to until months later. At least this time I managed to get around to Rennaissance storage a decent amount of time before the new one came out -- I think I didn't get around to Nocturne storage until about a week before Rennaissance.

Alas, I still have Renaissance in the original box. 

You mean you guys don't just keep them all in the original box and pray that you have enough space on the dominion shelf for the next one?

[hhelibebcnofnena]

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)

As is tradition, 36 days for me to figure out storage for this next set.

You figure it out in advance? That's probably smart. I just keep it in the original box until I can figure something out, which I inevitably don't get around to until months later. At least this time I managed to get around to Rennaissance storage a decent amount of time before the new one came out -- I think I didn't get around to Nocturne storage until about a week before Rennaissance.

Alas, I still have Renaissance in the original box. 

You mean you guys don't just keep them all in the original box and pray that you have enough space on the dominion shelf for the next one?

I guess it's partly for storage, but it's mostly for ease of setup. I'd rather have only two or three boxes out than bring out 12 different boxes because every card/event/landmark/project my randomizer picked is from a different expansion (realistically, that doesn't happen, but I just ran the randomizer program I use a few times and didn't get a single kingdom which used fewer than 6 separate expansions).

[flynd]

There are 400 cards, no more no less, and all of them are the usual size. There aren't any you would pass on sleeving.

As we already know that there are 30 kingdoms, it should be safe to assume that there are at least 30 cards that won't need sleeves for those of us that use a randomizer app (or any other method that won't include shuffling 366 cards).
As I never expect to have more than 4 players, I also leave out the cards that are extra for 5-6 players (i.e. 20 Curses, 4 of each Ruin, 2 Goats, etc.). Including the extra set of base cards from first edition Intrigue, that's almost 14% of the cards that I've left out and therefore haven't sleeved.

[crj]

Unless this is a subtle hint that Menagerie includes a non-randomising use for the randomisers?

[Jeebus]

As I never expect to have more than 4 players, I also leave out the cards that are extra for 5-6 players (i.e. 20 Curses, 4 of each Ruin, 2 Goats, etc.).

Actually, if you want to play according to the official rules you need all 50 Ruins. You shuffle them all, then count out how many you need for the game.

[flynd]

As I never expect to have more than 4 players, I also leave out the cards that are extra for 5-6 players (i.e. 20 Curses, 4 of each Ruin, 2 Goats, etc.).

Actually, if you want to play according to the official rules you need all 50 Ruins. You shuffle them all, then count out how many you need for the game.

True, using just 30 Ruins instead of 50 will have to be classified as a house rule but I think it won't make any major difference, especially in 2 player games which is what I mostly play.

[GendoIkari]

Something randomly occurred to me. Out of no where I remembered a fan card that created a +card token concept (worked just like Coffers and/or Villagers but for cards). The critique that I had for that makes me wonder if Horses are going to be more than just a vanilla +card token...

The critique being that it's far too rare that you would actually want to save the token for later instead of using it right now. I feel like it would pretty much only come up when you are over-drawing your deck. If you still have cards in your deck, and you have a +card token lying around, aren't you going to just spend that token almost every time? At least in an engine deck, which seems to be most good Dominion decks these days. Sure you could be playing some sort of BM without +buy and already have your ; but that just doesn't seem common enough.

It's at least enough to make me wonder if Horses will be something other than simply a Coffers for +card.

[crj]

I'd be tempted to disagree (and hope I'll have fun playing in order to find out). Card draw at the start of your turn is way more powerful than draw later, when it comes to consistency. It might well be worth accepting one indifferent turn in order to establish a rhythm of using the horses you got on your previous turn, then saving a fresh set for the next one.

[Awaclus]

If you still have cards in your deck, and you have a +card token lying around, aren't you going to just spend that token almost every time?

That's like trivially not the case. You don't spend your coffers almost every time, you only spend them when they're easier to acquire than actual coins or during specific moments when you get particularly good value from them. You very rarely spend a coffer to hit $6 instead of $5, and similarly, you would very rarely spend a card token to dig for more money to hit $6 instead of $5. The card token has the extra benefit of cycling your deck so you do have an extra incentive to use them before the end of the shuffle compared to coffers, but on the other hand, the prospect of saving you from a potentially-game-losing dud turn is an extra incentive to save them compared to coffers.

[GendoIkari]

The difference is that the Coffer can't do anything except increase your buying power; and you know exactly whether or not you need it at any given moment. Drawing an extra card now could easily be the difference between drawing your deck this turn and not. I'm thinking specifically engines.

[Jeebus]

Uhm... Sinister Plot? Why are you guys talking like a +1 Card token is all theoretical?

[GendoIkari]

Uhm... Sinister Plot? Why are you guys talking like a +1 Card token is all theoretical?

Well the big difference there is that it's not a choice between card now or card later... you get more cards per turn if you take more at once. Taking cards as soon as possible means only getting 1/2 cards per turn.

[Jeebus]

Uhm... Sinister Plot? Why are you guys talking like a +1 Card token is all theoretical?

Well the big difference there is that it's not a choice between card now or card later... you get more cards per turn if you take more at once. Taking cards as soon as possible means only getting 1/2 cards per turn.

Sure, there are differences. But if you would always want to use your +1 Card token and never save it, surely it would be the same for Sinister Plot? You would use it to draw 1 extra every other turn.

[GendoIkari]

Uhm... Sinister Plot? Why are you guys talking like a +1 Card token is all theoretical?

Well the big difference there is that it's not a choice between card now or card later... you get more cards per turn if you take more at once. Taking cards as soon as possible means only getting 1/2 cards per turn.

Sure, there are differences. But if you would always want to use your +1 Card token and never save it, surely it would be the same for Sinister Plot? You would use it to draw 1 extra every other turn.

With Sinister Plot, choosing to use it now means getting fewer total cards from it. With a card/horse token, you get the same number of total cards whether you use it now or later.

[Jeebus]

With Sinister Plot, choosing to use it now means getting fewer total cards from it. With a card/horse token, you get the same number of total cards whether you use it now or later.

Ok, that's true. With Sinister Plot, you use all your tokens at the expense of a token. I still feel like Sinister Plot tells us that sometimes it's better to wait for a big payout. The relative cost decreases the longer you wait. But you're right that it's not exactly comparable.

[Awaclus]

The difference is that the Coffer can't do anything except increase your buying power; and you know exactly whether or not you need it at any given moment. Drawing an extra card now could easily be the difference between drawing your deck this turn and not. I'm thinking specifically engines.

The difference between drawing your deck this turn and not is not a very big difference if you've already drawn 90-93% of it anyway. It's a big difference if your starting 5 on a future turn gives you a dud turn.

[GendoIkari]

Maybe the actual difference is more in uncertainty instead of strength; and the uncertainty mislead me into thinking it was strength... to explain, you always know for sure if you want/need to use a Coffer now; and most of the time that you don't use it, it's because using it would literally add 0 benefit to your current turn (you already had enough money to buy the card you wanted). So the choice isn't as often between getting a benefit now vs later; it's about using the coffer when it actually does give a benefit.

With the card token; not using it now is sacrificing something now for something later. Even if you have enough money to buy what you want; using the card token is still going to give some sort of benefit (maybe as little as cycling; but maybe drawing another attack, or a gainer, or a +buy, etc). And you don't know for sure what you are sacrificing. It's more of a gamble.

[Awaclus]

Maybe the actual difference is more in uncertainty instead of strength; and the uncertainty mislead me into thinking it was strength... to explain, you always know for sure if you want/need to use a Coffer now; and most of the time that you don't use it, it's because using it would literally add 0 benefit to your current turn (you already had enough money to buy the card you wanted). So the choice isn't as often between getting a benefit now vs later; it's about using the coffer when it actually does give a benefit.

With the card token; not using it now is sacrificing something now for something later. Even if you have enough money to buy what you want; using the card token is still going to give some sort of benefit (maybe as little as cycling; but maybe drawing another attack, or a gainer, or a +buy, etc). And you don't know for sure what you are sacrificing. It's more of a gamble.

It's definitely uncertain when we're talking about it on paper but I suspect that in practice it won't be that hard to make the call. You know what's in your deck so you know what you're hoping to accomplish, and you have at least a rough idea how likely it is that you'll succeed. It's worth noting that now vs. later doesn't always accomplish anything because drawing a Chapel on turn 3 or drawing it on turn 4 is pretty much the same. But if it's t4 and you haven't drawn your Chapel yet, spending a token gives you a 50% chance to save the Chapel from missing the shuffle, which is probably one of the best uses of the token. If it's t4 and you haven't drawn your last two Estates yet, spending a token gives you a 100% chance to save an Estate from missing the shuffle, which is obviously terrible. This is effectively the same scenario that you have in the engine that doesn't overdraw, because in that situation, something misses the shuffle every turn unless you spend the tokens, and whether spending the tokens is good or not depends on what's about to miss the shuffle.

[markusin]

So, with Sinister Plot you have to decide at the start of the turn. If +card tokens could be used at any time during your action phase, then before you spend the tokens you can see if the two villages you started with happen to draw smithies, which would make the need for spending the tokens unnecessary. With Sinister Plot you may not be able to take that chance and will have to spend the tokens despite them ultimately not having been necessary.

[Trogdor the Burninator]

New Dominion expansions are always exciting. 


Now I'll have another box to add to my Menagarie of Dominion-related cardboard, further confusing my family as to why on Earth I have like 13 (or 14?) boxes just related to Dominion but oh well :p

[Donald X.]

There is no Menagerie subforum yet! Maybe there won't be one, dunno, but, this would go there if there was one.

Menagerie previews start Monday, and as usual I have a teaser. I like trying different things with the teasers, and well this time the teaser is little bits of text from 10 cards or card-shaped things. See what you can make of them.

"5 or fewer"
"$1 less per"
"a different thing"
"an unused Action"
"either now or"
"hand three times"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"
"province, a duchy"
"they discard their"

[silverspawn]

Oh snap.

I still remember being all sad after being told there wouldn't be any more expansions after guilds.

Menagerie previews start Monday, and as usual I have a teaser. I like trying different things with the teasers, and well this time the teaser is little bits of text from 10 cards or card-shaped things. See what you can make of them.

"5 or fewer"
"$1 less per"
"a different thing"
"an unused Action"
"either now or"
"hand three times"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"
"province, a duchy"
"they discard their"

Ordered by confidence (low to lower):

[As part of effect]: "If you have an unused action, +1 Action"

[Below horizontal line]: "when you buy this card, instead of paying for it, you may do [bad thing]"

[Below horizontal line]: "During your buy phase, this costs 1$ less per [insert name of this card] you have in play"

[On an attack]: "Until your next turn, when another player didn't buy a Province, a duchy, or a [insert name of this card] at the end of their turn, they gain a Curse"

[Below horizontal line]: "While this is in play, when you would gain +1 Action, you may gain +1$ instead, and vice versa."

[hhelibebcnofnena]

"hand three times"
One card already in the game says this: King's Court. Maybe some sort of KC variant?

[scolapasta]

I can think of something (along the lines of what silverspawn and hhelibebcnofnena posted) for most of these, but this one seems especially interesting:

"a different thing"

Speculation: These three:
"an unused Action"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"

come from Ways.

[tim17]

There is no Menagerie subforum yet! Maybe there won't be one, dunno, but, this would go there if there was one.

Menagerie previews start Monday, and as usual I have a teaser. I like trying different things with the teasers, and well this time the teaser is little bits of text from 10 cards or card-shaped things. See what you can make of them.

"5 or fewer"
"$1 less per"
"a different thing"
"an unused Action"
"either now or"
"hand three times"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"
"province, a duchy"
"they discard their"

I'm 98% sure that all of these are right. The last one was a tip from Jeff Kornberg.

Setup: In games with 5 or fewer players, add dummy players until there are 6 players in the game, and add Messenger to the kingdom.

Menagerie costs $1 less per copy of Dominion: Menagerie you own.

When you gain this, you may instead (for no additional cost) buy a different thing that is card-shaped of equal or lesser printed cost.

+1 Card, +1 Action. If you have an unused Action, discard your hand.

At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, +10 cards. Either now or at the start of your next turn, the player to your left gains all the victory cards in the supply.

Compute by hand three times seven. If the answer is prime, gain all the curses from the supply.

When you buy a copper, you may gain a curse instead, and vice-versa.

When you buy this, you may pay $4 for it instead of paying $5 for it.

Compared to province, a duchy is worth 3 fewer points. (This has no effect on gameplay; it is merely a statement taking up valuable space on a card-shaped thing)

they discard their detonator and drop eight bombs on the continent of their choosing, killing everybody on it. Flip them over so you know they're dead.

[Jeebus]

"a different thing"

I can't imagine an instruction where the best way to phrase it is with the word "thing". Hopefully it's my imagination that's lacking!

[spineflu]

"a different thing"

I can't imagine an instruction where the best way to phrase it is with the word "thing". Hopefully it's my imagination that's lacking!

Maybe 'Thing' is a 'Gathering' or 'Castles'-style card type.

[scolapasta]

Speculation: These three:
"an unused Action"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"

come from Ways.

Actually, I am now thinking "instead, and vice-versa" could be a cool reaction (based on reading someone's favorite card from the new set was blue), something alone the lines of:
"When you discard a card, you may reveal this from your hand to trash it instead, and vice-versa. If you do, discard this."

[Wizard_Amul]

"a different thing"

I can't imagine an instruction where the best way to phrase it is with the word "thing". Hopefully it's my imagination that's lacking!

Maybe 'Thing' is a 'Gathering' or 'Castles'-style card type.

I'm not sure if there would be a better way to word it, but I'm assuming "thing" would be used if it's multiple different types of objects that are being referenced, but where they're not all "objects" so "thing" is better. Maybe there's a long parentheses afterwards to explain what "thing" refers to, although I feel that would be too much text. You could use "thing" to refer to these things collectively that another word might not be as good at doing: coffers, villagers, ways, tavern mat, etc.

I don't think this would be a good card idea at all, but the card could be an action that reads something like "Each time you play this card on a turn, you may choose a different thing that your opponents cannot use on their turn" (almost like a reverse Contraband, but you can pick things like villagers, coffers, ways, etc.).

[Jeebus]

I'm not sure if there would be a better way to word it, but I'm assuming "thing" would be used if it's multiple different types of objects that are being referenced, but where they're not all "objects" so "thing" is better. Maybe there's a long parentheses afterwards to explain what "thing" refers to, although I feel that would be too much text. You could use "thing" to refer to these things collectively that another word might not be as good at doing: coffers, villagers, ways, tavern mat, etc.

I don't think this would be a good card idea at all, but the card could be an action that reads something like "Each time you play this card on a turn, you may choose a different thing that your opponents cannot use on their turn" (almost like a reverse Contraband, but you can pick things like villagers, coffers, ways, etc.).

I'm also thinking that it probably has to do with some choice. But why not write "make a different choice for/about" or something?

[mxdata]

There is no Menagerie subforum yet! Maybe there won't be one, dunno, but, this would go there if there was one.

Menagerie previews start Monday, and as usual I have a teaser. I like trying different things with the teasers, and well this time the teaser is little bits of text from 10 cards or card-shaped things. See what you can make of them.

"5 or fewer"
"$1 less per"
"a different thing"
"an unused Action"
"either now or"
"hand three times"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"
"province, a duchy"
"they discard their"

The "an" in front of "unused Action" narrows down what it could be.  If the "an" weren't there, I'd assume it was something about "per unused Action", similar to Diadem.  Also, "unused" would be weirdly redundant for most things I can think of using Action cards (e.g., "discard an Action card" - "unused" would be redundant since obviously if it's in your hand to discard it can't have been used!)

Maybe Villagers are being brought back?  So, you might have an Event that has something like "If you have an used Action, +1 villager"

Oh!  Or maybe this would be something with Horses, so you can exchange an unused Action for a Horse that you can use in a later turn

"5 or fewer" has a few interesting possibilities.  My guess is something about "If you have 5 or fewer cards in your hand after playing this ...." (probably something with at least +2 cards, since otherwise having 5 or fewer cards left would be too easy)  But another interesting possibility is something like Council Room, but with a limit in its effect on other people.  "Each other player with 5 or fewer cards in their hand draws one card", so, unlike Council Room, its benefit to other people would be capped, and so there wouldn't ordinarily be any stacking of its effect (unless, of course, a discard attack had been played previously, in which case it would stack until they hit 6 cards)

"Province, a duchy" presumably would be something that would reference Victory cards, but only the base victory cards, so "a Province, a Duchy, or an Estate".  Lots of possible options there, considering how many cards there already are referencing Victory cards

"Hand three times" - My first thought was a joking "reveal your hand three times" which would obviously be pointless (well, unless you happened to have a Patron in your hand ... +3 coffers!)  Maybe something like "trash a card from your hand three times", probably some trash-for-benefit card where you'd get something from the cards you trash

"Instead of paying" maybe a Way that's something like "When you would buy a card, instead of paying its cost, you may trash a card costing at least as much from your hand"

"They discard their" this must be some kind of conditional hand-discarding attack.  Something like "Each other player reveals their hand, if they have X, they discard their hand and draw four cards" or "Each other player reveals their hand.  They discard their hand and draw four cards or [other option (gain a curse maybe?)], your choice"

"$1 less per" and "either now or" could be a lot of different things, so I'm not even going to try to guess

[mxdata]

Speculation: These three:
"an unused Action"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"

come from Ways.

Actually, I am now thinking "instead, and vice-versa" could be a cool reaction (based on reading someone's favorite card from the new set was blue), something alone the lines of:
"When you discard a card, you may reveal this from your hand to trash it instead, and vice-versa. If you do, discard this."

That would be a really interesting card.  It would make discard attacks a lot less useful, since you'd frequently end up helping your opponents, especially if you also have junking and/or cursing attacks in the game.  "Oh, you played Militia?  Thanks for letting me trash this Curse!"  Would especially interact weirdly with the Tomb landmark!

[scolapasta]

Speculation: These three:
"an unused Action"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"

come from Ways.

Actually, I am now thinking "instead, and vice-versa" could be a cool reaction (based on reading someone's favorite card from the new set was blue), something alone the lines of:
"When you discard a card, you may reveal this from your hand to trash it instead, and vice-versa. If you do, discard this."

That would be a really interesting card.  It would make discard attacks a lot less useful, since you'd frequently end up helping your opponents, especially if you also have junking and/or cursing attacks in the game.  "Oh, you played Militia?  Thanks for letting me trash this Curse!"  Would especially interact weirdly with the Tomb landmark!

Right. I slight change to my thoughts, I'm thinking it'll have to be "when you would discard a card", meaning you wouldn't be able to, for example:
• discard for Plaza, trash a copper and get +1 Coffers
• trash a Gold with remodel, discard it, and also gain a province

(one of my variants had a similar when you would trash, you may discard clause, so I'd be excited if it were this)

"5 or fewer" likely refers to hands (since "5"), but could also refer to supply piles, e.g. "If there are 5 or fewer Provinces left in the supply".

This is a great idea for the teaser!

[market squire]

"a different thing"

I can't imagine an instruction where the best way to phrase it is with the word "thing". Hopefully it's my imagination that's lacking!

To me, the only thing that would make sense for this thing under the current ruleset would be a formal term for those things that Donald calls "card-shaped thingys". I'd imagine an effect that refers to buying anything (a card or an event) and then does something to a different thing (card or event or project). Like "when you buy this, you may buy a different thing for less" or something, i don't know.

[Awaclus]

We already have a precedent for "thing" in Patron.

[Willvon]

Will someone be creating a Menagerie Previews section like we have done in the past for other expansions?

[Donald X.]

Will someone be creating a Menagerie Previews section like we have done in the past for other expansions?

If not, I can just put them here in this forum.

[J Reggie]

The big question is, if there is a Menagerie Previews section, will the Dark Ages and Guilds previews get further buried?

[GendoIkari]

Found the box art for Menagerie on BGG:

[mxdata]

Found the box art for Menagerie on BGG:

Reused cards from the unreleased Dominion: Cage no doubt

[BBobb]

When is the secret History for this set supposed to come out?

[Donald X.]

When is the secret History for this set supposed to come out?

Probably when someone could conceivably have the physical set.

[silverspawn]

I'm not an expert in agriculture, but this doesn't seem right.

[mail-mi]

I'm not an expert in agriculture, but this doesn't seem right.

and what's going on with her face?

[mxdata]

I'm not an expert in agriculture, but this doesn't seem right.

Someone just gave her a gold coin.  She's too happy about the money to use her scythe right

[chipperMDW]

She's the grin reaper.

[mxdata]

No, wait!  She's toiling ironically!

[Hockey Mask]

Any word on physical copies?

[hhelibebcnofnena]

A release date update: delayed. The expansion is in Chicago, but there is a shortage of drivers, and it isn't expected to make it over to RGG's warehouse until Thursday.

[Donald X.]

Any word on physical copies?

They arrived in the warehouse on Thursday (today, to me). Now it's up to how long it takes them to get to distributors and then to online stores and then to players. My copies are coming directly from the warehouse so I'll have them in a few days. Some distributors will have them at the same time.

[silverspawn]

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

[crj]

I can't see any sense in which gaining a card is playing an action?

[GendoIkari]

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Cavalry and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

[silverspawn]

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Calvary and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

@underlined: yes

Okay, that makes sense. I think was mostly expecting it to work because I had thought of CotR as "whenever I'm in my action phase, I can call it to make actions" which was basically correct until villa and cavalry and it only matters for cavalry.

[GendoIkari]

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Calvary and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

@underlined: yes

Okay, that makes sense. I think was mostly expecting it to work because I had thought of CotR as "whenever I'm in my action phase, I can call it to make actions" which was basically correct until villa and cavalry and it only matters for cavalry.

Why would Cavalry be different than Villa there? The key is that CotR is a normal triggered ability just like Tunnel or Moat... you can only use the ability exactly when it says you can.

[AJD]

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Calvary and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

@underlined: yes

Okay, that makes sense. I think was mostly expecting it to work because I had thought of CotR as "whenever I'm in my action phase, I can call it to make actions" which was basically correct until villa and cavalry and it only matters for cavalry.

Why would Cavalry be different than Villa there? The key is that CotR is a normal triggered ability just like Tunnel or Moat... you can only use the ability exactly when it says you can.

The question never came up with Villa, because Villa also gives you +1 Action when you gain it, but Cavalry can return you to your Action phase but without the ability to actually play any Action cards.

[Titandrake]

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Calvary and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

@underlined: yes

Okay, that makes sense. I think was mostly expecting it to work because I had thought of CotR as "whenever I'm in my action phase, I can call it to make actions" which was basically correct until villa and cavalry and it only matters for cavalry.

Why would Cavalry be different than Villa there? The key is that CotR is a normal triggered ability just like Tunnel or Moat... you can only use the ability exactly when it says you can.

The question never came up with Villa, because Villa also gives you +1 Action when you gain it, but Cavalry can return you to your Action phase but without the ability to actually play any Action cards.

Villa also directly went to your hand, Cavalry doesn't.

If you have an Action leftover, then when you go back from Buy phase to Action phase, you can call the CotR when you play your next Action. But you need to have 1 action leftover (I made the mistake of spending all my actions during Menagerie previews week, and got a nasty surprise when I wasn't able to play an Action to trigger Coin's reaction.)

[silverspawn]

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Calvary and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

@underlined: yes

Okay, that makes sense. I think was mostly expecting it to work because I had thought of CotR as "whenever I'm in my action phase, I can call it to make actions" which was basically correct until villa and cavalry and it only matters for cavalry.

Why would Cavalry be different than Villa there? The key is that CotR is a normal triggered ability just like Tunnel or Moat... you can only use the ability exactly when it says you can.

The question never came up with Villa, because Villa also gives you +1 Action when you gain it, but Cavalry can return you to your Action phase but without the ability to actually play any Action cards.

Villa also directly went to your hand, Cavalry doesn't.

If you have an Action leftover, then when you go back from Buy phase to Action phase, you can call the CotR when you play your next Action. But you need to have 1 action leftover (I made the mistake of spending all my actions during Menagerie previews week, and got a nasty surprise when I wasn't able to play an Action to trigger Coin's reaction.)

Yeah, I did realize that after the game. I could have done it, too; I didn't need to play the first action

[Hockey Mask]

Available on Amazon.

[werothegreat]

Honestly, I don't feel a particular rush to get this one - I live alone, so who am I going to be playing a physical copy with?

[J Reggie]

Yeah I'm probably going to be getting this set when my favorite game store opens back up, but who knows when that will be.

[hhelibebcnofnena]

I can't wait to play it with my family. I hope it arrives soon.

[mxdata]

Honestly, I don't feel a particular rush to get this one - I live alone, so who am I going to be playing a physical copy with?

I preordered mine long, long ago, in the pre-Covid times, but I'm in the same situation.  My local store is still up and running online and delivering games, so I'm guessing once it gets in, they'll ship it out to me, but it's gonna be a while before I can actually play it

[Hockey Mask]

Received my copy today. Release the sleeves!

[mail-mi]

Got my Menagerie today. Did anyone else get 2 copies of the exile mats?

[Hockey Mask]

I got just one set. 


But it sounds like their is go8ng to be someone out there without one.

[crj]

Time for a fan variant with two Exile mats per player: when Exiling a card, you can Exile to either mat. Want to be able to have only half your Exiled Gold return to your deck? Plan ahead and put half of it on the other mat. (-8

[scolapasta]

Sounds like you find the golden exile mat and a free trip to the Dominion factory!

[Hockey Mask]

“You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!"

[mxdata]

Time for a fan variant with two Exile mats per player: when Exiling a card, you can Exile to either mat. Want to be able to have only half your Exiled Gold return to your deck? Plan ahead and put half of it on the other mat. (-8

Gatekeeper Exiles cards as long as neither Exile mat has a copy

[silverspawn]

If you play mastermind1 on turn1...

then on turn2, use mastermind1 it to play mastermind2 thrice...

then on turn3, use mastermind2 to play mastermind3 thrice...

... is mastermind1 supposed to stay out until turn 4?

[Donald X.]

If you play mastermind1 on turn1...

then on turn2, use mastermind1 it to play mastermind2 thrice...

then on turn3, use mastermind2 to play mastermind3 thrice...

... is mastermind1 supposed to stay out until turn 4?

Yes. If we replace mastermind1 with a Throne Room, the Throne Room also stays out; Throne-type cards played on Durations stay out as long as the Duration. Similarly a Throned Archive keeps the Throne out until the Archive is used up, and a Throned Hireling keeps the Throne out forever.

[silverspawn]

If you play mastermind1 on turn1...

then on turn2, use mastermind1 it to play mastermind2 thrice...

then on turn3, use mastermind2 to play mastermind3 thrice...

... is mastermind1 supposed to stay out until turn 4?

Yes. If we replace mastermind1 with a Throne Room, the Throne Room also stays out; Throne-type cards played on Durations stay out as long as the Duration. Similarly a Throned Archive keeps the Throne out until the Archive is used up, and a Throned Hireling keeps the Throne out forever.

I know a throneroom variant stays out with the duration it's been played for, but in this case, mastermind1 wasn't played on mastermind3.

[scolapasta]

If you play mastermind1 on turn1...

then on turn2, use mastermind1 it to play mastermind2 thrice...

then on turn3, use mastermind2 to play mastermind3 thrice...

... is mastermind1 supposed to stay out until turn 4?

Yes. If we replace mastermind1 with a Throne Room, the Throne Room also stays out; Throne-type cards played on Durations stay out as long as the Duration. Similarly a Throned Archive keeps the Throne out until the Archive is used up, and a Throned Hireling keeps the Throne out forever.

I know a throneroom variant stays out with the duration it's been played for, but in this case, mastermind1 wasn't played on mastermind3.

True, but it played mastermind2 which is still out (because it, in turn, played mastermind3). Since mastermind2 is still out, mastermind1 stays out.

[dghunter79]

If you play mastermind1 on turn1...

then on turn2, use mastermind1 it to play mastermind2 thrice...

then on turn3, use mastermind2 to play mastermind3 thrice...

... is mastermind1 supposed to stay out until turn 4?

Yes. If we replace mastermind1 with a Throne Room, the Throne Room also stays out; Throne-type cards played on Durations stay out as long as the Duration. Similarly a Throned Archive keeps the Throne out until the Archive is used up, and a Throned Hireling keeps the Throne out forever.

I know a throneroom variant stays out with the duration it's been played for, but in this case, mastermind1 wasn't played on mastermind3.

True, but it played mastermind2 which is still out (because it, in turn, played mastermind3). Since mastermind2 is still out, mastermind1 stays out.

Is it possible to have a Masterminded Mastermind to start every turn indefinitely in every kingdom in which Mastermind appears? I'm having difficulty wrapping my mind around it.

[bitwise]

If you play mastermind1 on turn1...

then on turn2, use mastermind1 it to play mastermind2 thrice...

then on turn3, use mastermind2 to play mastermind3 thrice...

... is mastermind1 supposed to stay out until turn 4?

Yes. If we replace mastermind1 with a Throne Room, the Throne Room also stays out; Throne-type cards played on Durations stay out as long as the Duration. Similarly a Throned Archive keeps the Throne out until the Archive is used up, and a Throned Hireling keeps the Throne out forever.

I know a throneroom variant stays out with the duration it's been played for, but in this case, mastermind1 wasn't played on mastermind3.

True, but it played mastermind2 which is still out (because it, in turn, played mastermind3). Since mastermind2 is still out, mastermind1 stays out.

Is it possible to have a Masterminded Mastermind to start every turn indefinitely in every kingdom in which Mastermind appears? I'm having difficulty wrapping my mind around it.

Yes, you can have 3 free Mastermind triggers every turn with 5 Masterminds in your deck.

Setup turn 1: Play Mastermind
Setup turn 2: Mastermind a Mastermind, play Mastermind
Every following turn: use your Masterminded Mastermind on three non-Duration actions. Use your lone Mastermind on a Mastermind. Play Mastermind.

[Gherald]

The card that most annoyed me in Nocturne is Werewolf, it's on my ban list. Spamming hexes is dull.  I was also annoyed by Shepherd, just never enjoyed thinking about the ways it alters the game, so it too is on my ban list.

Renaissance's Inventor gets the boot with its bonkers pileouts, more so than Bridge due to being less predictable.

The card that most annoys me in Menagerie so far is Mastermind, because of how much it depends on what you draw at the start of next turn, and you so have to think a fair deal about topdeck-management strategies--certainly a valid way to play, just time consuming.

I think I may end up adding Mastermind to my ban list. It's not that it's a bad card, I just don't find the extra conscious topdeck management it adds to gameplay an enjoyable thing to spend brain cycles on, whereas everything else in the set is enjoyable. It's definitely an appropriately-named card.

I'm a simple man. I like simple cards like Fisherman -- which despite the dismissive cold shoulders it's got, is an improved Peddler IMO; less game-warping.

[silverspawn]

That's funny because mastermind is one of my favorite cards and fisherman my least favorite out of menagerie. I found it impressive how much making KC into a duration has done. It feels much more interesting than KC, in part because the stay-out rules make it worse to use it on itself.

[Gherald]

The worse to use on itself aspect is a thing I like about it, compared to KC. But everything else about how it plays I like much less.

[werothegreat]

Really?  I think Inventor is my favorite card from Renaissance.  I love bonkers pileouts!

[Gherald]

It’s a whole lot of specific analysis that doesn’t apply to other games, and that you have to think about when Inventor is there.

I just like normal cards, not bonkers cards — nor cards that are very specific in ways that require a lot of analysis in ways that overly peculiar to them and don’t transfer well to other cards.

[hhelibebcnofnena]

It’s a whole lot of specific analysis that doesn’t apply to other games, and that you have to think about when Inventor is there.

I just like normal cards, not bonkers cards — nor cards that are very specific in ways that require a lot of analysis in ways that overly peculiar to them and don’t transfer well to other cards.

That's fair. I think that is exactly what a lot of other people (myself included) enjoy about them, but I can understand why someone wouldn't like it. It's not for everyone.

[Chris is me]

For what it's worth, I got my copy off Amazon on Sunday after ordering Friday. So those who wait until it's in stock on Amazon: hey, it is!

Also, they put the divider label thingy in the manual to protect it this time. A nice touch.

Cards seem fine.

[Willvon]

It’s also in stock at Miniature Market

[marksim]

I'm hoping Cool Stuff Inc gets their copies in soon.  Looking forward to holding the cards and then storing them forever in my custom case where they will be played with 1-2 times total.

 

[GendoIkari]

I'm hoping Cool Stuff Inc gets their copies in soon.  Looking forward to holding the cards and then storing them forever in my custom case where they will be played with 1-2 times total.

 

Now in stock at Cool Stuff Inc!

https://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/292460

[silverspawn]

If you play a crossroads as way of something and then another crossroads, do you gain +3 actions?

[mad4math]

No. When you play a card as a way, it counts as having played that card, for any cards that care (such as crossroads).

[hhelibebcnofnena]

I'm hoping Cool Stuff Inc gets their copies in soon.  Looking forward to holding the cards and then storing them forever in my custom case where they will be played with 1-2 times total.

 

Now in stock at Cool Stuff Inc!

https://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/292460

Can confirm, just arrived at my door!

[marksim]

I'm hoping Cool Stuff Inc gets their copies in soon.  Looking forward to holding the cards and then storing them forever in my custom case where they will be played with 1-2 times total.

 

Now in stock at Cool Stuff Inc!

https://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/292460

Can confirm, just arrived at my door!

Same!   I have to say, though.. today is the saddest Happy Dominion Day I've ever had... 

[hhelibebcnofnena]

The recommended sets are really great with this expansion! Lots of neat little things like including three different cards that get more powerful as piles run out (Animal Fair, Paddock, City) -- or four different cards with changing costs (Wayfarer, Peddler, Fisherman, Destrier).