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[shraeye]

For some reason, I thought all kills were people who voted with Space; pubby wasn't; my bad.  That makes me 0.5-2% less suspicious of Eevee.

[shraeye]

It's not claim time this IRL day yet.  And that's not the order we're using.  And Bright isn't setting it.

[raerae]

It's not claim time this IRL day yet.  And that's not the order we're using.  And Bright isn't setting it.

So you want to push to deadline? That's always super successful for town.

[shraeye]

Eevee, why track Galz, a claimed investigative/targetting role?  He was roleblocked N2, and likely to be roleblocked N3.

Even if you see something, this is only good for catching Galz IF he's lying AND picks a lie that doesn't involve his actual target.

Why not target someone like Bright, who claims to not have the ability to target anyone anymore?  That would be some very interesting information to have, because if he targets anyone at all, that catches him in a lie.

[shraeye]

It's not claim time this IRL day yet.  And that's not the order we're using.  And Bright isn't setting it.

So you want to push to deadline? That's always super successful for town.

Deadline is in 6 IRL days; let's put the claims aside for a bit and chat.  Get a Sunday for people to catch up, a Monday for LaLight and other weekend VLA-ers to catch up and then see where we're at.

[raerae]

It's not claim time this IRL day yet.  And that's not the order we're using.  And Bright isn't setting it.

So you want to push to deadline? That's always super successful for town.

Deadline is in 6 IRL days; let's put the claims aside for a bit and chat.  Get a Sunday for people to catch up, a Monday for LaLight and other weekend VLA-ers to catch up and then see where we're at.

I don't see the point in having three to five more pages of accusations when the best conversations we can actually have are centered around claiming. I'm not saying lunch the person who doesn't do it in the next six hours but it needs to happen today and it needs to happen early.

[shraeye]

ok, give us 1 to 2 pages of accusations then.

[raerae]

ok, give us 1 to 2 pages of accusations then.

To what end? How is that more helpful than claims and THEN accusations?

[shraeye]

ok, give us 1 to 2 pages of accusations then.

To what end? How is that more helpful than claims and THEN accusations?

layers.  onions.

[Swowl]

onions make you cry.
If we don't go with the claim all that happened is we forced eevee to claim. they gave answers that could be true, and then will most likely be lynched for those answers. when that happens we go to night and there are deaths. That means info that is not given. That helps skum A LOT at this point.


I think we need to finish the claim out.

[Swowl]

Shraeye - So do you think there is a BP SK or do you think there were multiple similar targets night 2? Or both?

[Eevee]

Eevee, why track Galz, a claimed investigative/targetting role?  He was roleblocked N2, and likely to be roleblocked N3.

Even if you see something, this is only good for catching Galz IF he's lying AND picks a lie that doesn't involve his actual target.

Why not target someone like Bright, who claims to not have the ability to target anyone anymore?  That would be some very interesting information to have, because if he targets anyone at all, that catches him in a lie.

That would have been a better choice. I didn’t think Galzria’s no result was due to him being blocked, but due to him targeting Space like myself. I was hoping Galzria’s target would turn up dead, and he’d claimed to have targeted someone else so I could catch him in a lie. Basically I thought Galzria claiming to and likely having a targeting role would make him an attractive target, since at least he’d be targeting someone.

[shraeye]

onions make you cry.
If we don't go with the claim all that happened is we forced eevee to claim. they gave answers that could be true, and then will most likely be lynched for those answers. when that happens we go to night and there are deaths. That means info that is not given. That helps skum A LOT at this point.


I think we need to finish the claim out.

You think we'd lynch Eevee because of the answers if we shut down the claim train now?

Shraeye - So do you think there is a BP SK or do you think there were multiple similar targets night 2? Or both?

At least one of those, or something equivalent.  Something screwy has been happening with the kills, I don't have the full answer, but we definitely haven't explored it enough either, the current theories are all lacking. It feels to me like the prevailing theory is that bright shot night 1, and that aliens shot night 3.  But A) that only accounts for one missing kill night 2, and B) both of those are really terrible decisions the more I think about it.

Hypothetical: you're a 1 shot vig, only one possible action you can take to help town.  When to use it? On who?  I know people who might just shoot night 1 and hope, but have you been reading Bright?? He is DEFINITELY a super analytical player, seeking to maximize each everything. Night 1 shots are not gonna work out in the long run.

Hypothetical: youre yet another alien, sucks that your partners died back to back.  Luckily you still have your single faction kill left, if you can only hold out for the right moment, no kingmaking necessary, you'll win clean and clear.  So what do you do? Shoot night 3, when there are 13 players left and two other scumteams still unaccounted for? No, never.

I have a different theory, it's cleaner, you'll hear it when you hear it, it's tied to my claim, which will probably happen this game-day

[Brightgalrs]

I don't get it.  You're saying Space being suspicious of you was 100% spot-on?  SHOULD we be suspicious of you?  Well, should we??

This is the main thrust of that post, so yes, you should be! With Space's somewhat reasonable arguments, you absolutely should have considered lynching me! Space was lynched because they discarded IC, and then...well they never actually claimed (I'm sure this was intentional, with hindsight) so that's basically the only reason.

To see what position I'm in, imagine a hypothetical game where you're a townie, yet you slip up and do something suspicious. Then instead of anyone questioning you about it, everyone goes off and lynchs someone who isn't suspicious at all. It says something about how the scum are operating, if nothing else.

Also, bold move, admitting to drumming up stuff on mail-mi being just a desperate ploy.

You have it the wrong way around, it'd be" drumming up stuff on Space". As for me, I'll say that it's difficult to argue against your own incompetence.

Why is the Werewolf PGO too much of a conclusion to jump to? Would a Parrot really kill a vanilla scum if they targeted them? Why is Town Vig not probable?

This is super super confusing to me.  Why caution about jumping to conclusions while immediately making another niche conclusion, followed by throwing out another one with no explanation?

I jumped to conclusions by saying it must be an Alien, it was in the first post of the day. I don't know how faction kills work with parrot's abilities. Yes, a Town Vigilante is possible, but, what, they decided to blind fire into ~4 people that voted for me yesterday?

No explanation? They are explanations for last night's extra kill.

Why are you so sure there is a Serial Killer that you are now talking about there being a second one?

Stop it. This is the third time this line of thought has been brought up. Everyone in this thread suspects there is at least one Serial Killer.

Also, what makes you think pubby didn't try to kill you?  If you are SK, there is a high likelihood you are either WW-immune or 2-shot bulletproof.  That would really really help account for a missing kill night 2.

Yeah that does fit the narrative pretty well. But you asking me why I don't think pubby tried to kill me is a bit unproductive.

It's all good stuff shraeye, I like that someone responded in detail to my post, but your sorta falling into the trap where your letting all your suspicion come out today as opposed to yesterday when it would've actually been "useful" (not really, with hindsight). Basically if you thought I was this suspicious, why on earth did you vote for Space yesterday over me? But I guess with the extra kill last night it makes sense.

It's not claim time this IRL day yet.  And that's not the order we're using.  And Bright isn't setting it.

Somehow I missed this when it was first posted and I'm not cool with either of you running this show.

"my proposed order", "who I find the scummiest", it's an invitation to create your own order. Are you that unwilling to commit yourself? Also it's laughable that raerae doesn't trust Galz.

Hypothetical: you're a 1 shot vig, only one possible action you can take to help town.  When to use it? On who?  I know people who might just shoot night 1 and hope, but have you been reading Bright?? He is DEFINITELY a super analytical player, seeking to maximize each everything. Night 1 shots are not gonna work out in the long run.

Just a reminder that we had a Day 1 before Night 1. sudgy was a decent target.

I have a different theory, it's cleaner, you'll hear it when you hear it, it's tied to my claim, which will probably happen this game-day

This is as good as a roleclaim for me, someone paying attention. I'll say that I absolutely don't believe it.

[raerae]

@bright, Don't confuse my mistrust of you as a mistrust of a Galz.  So far as I can remember I haven't given a read on him. 

@everybody, I've got something incoming, one moment please.

[raerae]

Day One Claims/Deaths:
     sudgy - Miller (fake)
     joth (lynch) - Town DayVig
     Awaclus (vig death) - Town Cop-of-All-Trades
Night One Deaths:
     Glooble - Alpha Werewolf
     pingpongsam - Town Doctor
     sudgy - Town Conspiracy Theorist
     Archetype - Town Mason Doctor

Day Two Claims/Deaths:
     Bright - 1-Shot Vig (did not claim alignment, claimed sudgy kill)
     faust (lynch) - Alien Sympathizer
     DatSwan - Vanilla'd 1-Shot Kingmaker (claimed to not use shot N1)
     Galz - Investigative (did not claim specific role or alignment)
Night Two Deaths:
     e - Town Jack-of-All-Trades
     MiX - Alien Vanillaiser

Day Three Claims/Deaths:
     raerae - Town Nymphomaniac, Vanilla'd N2
     SpaceAnemone (lynch) - Mafia Compulsive Hider
Night Three Deaths:
     pubby - Werewolf
     Joseph2302 - Town One-Shot Governor
     WestCoastDidds - Town Private Investigator
     EFHW - Town Vanilla Cop

Day Four Claims/Deaths:
     Eevee - Town Tracker

UNCLAIMED:
     mail-mi
     Uncleeurope
     shraeye
     LaLight

[raerae]

So this is where we sit now.  If anybody has already claimed and would like to amend that claim I suggest you do it now.

[Eevee]

That’s very helpful, thanks.

I’m in favor of everyone claiming. I think generally the townier (seeming) players have already claimed.

[Brightgalrs]

Thanks raerae that's really helpful.

You probably should have noted that DatSwan was Vanilla'd on Night 1, seeing as you marked yourself for Night 2.
And Galz should be in the unclaimed list. We have comparable "clues" as to what mail-mi and shraeye's roles are, yet we'd still say they were unclaimed.

[raerae]

Thanks raerae that's really helpful.

You probably should have noted that DatSwan was Vanilla'd on Night 1, seeing as you marked yourself for Night 2.
And Galz should be in the unclaimed list. We have comparable "clues" as to what mail-mi and shraeye's roles are, yet we'd still say they were unclaimed.

Galz has claimed an investigative result which is close enough to an investigative role for me.  You may have suspicions for what mail-mi and shraeye are but I sure don't and they haven't claimed so that lands them pretty solidly into the Unclaimed category.  The stuff re: DatSwan is just nitpicky and changes nothing

[Brightgalrs]

Galz has claimed an investigative result which is close enough to an investigative role for me. You may have suspicions for what mail-mi and shraeye are but I sure don't and they haven't claimed so that lands them pretty solidly into the Unclaimed category.

Can I have your definition of what is considered a roleclaim? For instance, imagine everyone (mail-mi, Uncleeurope, shraeye, LaLight) came forward with only their role class ("investigative", "protective", etc.) would that satisfy you? That appears to be what your doing with Galz.

Now that'd be fine with me, after all I trust Galz, but you seem to be being inconsistent:

LaLight is next on my list, which I'd like Galz to comment on.

But if we (or rather, you who are left) mass claim here's my proposed order:

• Eevee
• LaLight
• Uncleeurope
• shraeye
• mail-mi
• Galzria

It's based off who I find the scummiest, with a bias towards Mafia.

Somehow I missed this when it was first posted and I'm not cool with either of you running this show.

Which you followed by:

@bright, Don't confuse my mistrust of you as a mistrust of a Galz.  So far as I can remember I haven't given a read on him. 

"either of you" would refer to me and Galz. It seems you have a healthy mistrust of Galz, but trust him enough to give him a pass on roleclaiming. I'd just like some clarification on your thought process here, please and thank you.

The stuff re: DatSwan is just nitpicky and changes nothing

Are we trying to put together a good summary of roles and claims or not? You're coming off a little hostile here.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 4.1

Eevee (2): Galzria, LaLight

Not Voting (7): DatSwan, mail-mi, Uncleeurope, shraeye, Eevee, raerae, Brightgalrs

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day Four ends at 4:00 UTC 12/6/2019.

[LaLight]

I got the choice between vanilla town or town tracker.

N1 tracked PPS, he targeted EFHW
N2 tracked Space, got no result
N3 tracked Galzria, he targeted no one

I don't believe it

[LaLight]

There's a lot to pick at here.

N1 tracked PPS, he targeted EFHW

Random target, plausible.

N2 tracked Space, got no result

I don’t know if there are any mafia roles that could fake my results, but that’s what I have. I contemplated claiming yesterday, both before and after Galzria claimed his no result, but decided against it having no actionable information and because I’m generally not a popular night kill, especially not after being this lurky.

You must've thought you were roleblocked on Night 2, right? And then you must've seen it as pretty weird that Galzria was roleblocked on Night 2 as well. Why wouldn't you say anything? The conclusion would've been that one of you if lying (with Galzria coming off worse) or there are two roleblockers in the game, both are pretty good things to know.

N3 tracked Galzria, he targeted no one

Why? Yesterday they said they were being roleblocked, why would you pick them as a target when there was a 99% chance of them being roleblocked again?
And if you thought they were lying about being roleblocked, and that's why you targeted them, then why didn't you bring it up during the day?
Basically, either you believed them, and tracking them doesn't make sense. Or you thought they were lying, and yet you did not bring it up in the Day, which also doesn't make sense.

Natural order of resolution, Hider comes before everything:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution

That's a neat article, thank you. Investigative roles really get shafted, don't they?

These are some awesome points!

[LaLight]

That’s very helpful, thanks.

I’m in favor of everyone claiming. I think generally the townier (seeming) players have already claimed.

Why weren't you before?