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[Eevee]

I got the choice between vanilla town or town tracker.

N1 tracked PPS, he targeted EFHW
N2 tracked Space, got no result
N3 tracked Galzria, he targeted no one

[Eevee]

I don’t know if there are any mafia roles that could fake my results, but that’s what I have. I contemplated claiming yesterday, both before and after Galzria claimed his no result, but decided against it having no actionable information and because I’m generally not a popular night kill, especially not after being this lurky.

I appreciate Bright helping me not get quicklynched. Both targets until Galzria we’re pretty much random
among people I figured less likely to get killed (didn’t work with PPS).

[Galzria]

I don’t know if there are any mafia roles that could fake my results, but that’s what I have. I contemplated claiming yesterday, both before and after Galzria claimed his no result, but decided against it having no actionable information and because I’m generally not a popular night kill, especially not after being this lurky.

I appreciate Bright helping me not get quicklynched. Both targets until Galzria we’re pretty much random
among people I figured less likely to get killed (didn’t work with PPS).

A) There’s Mafia tracker
B) Your result on me and on Space are completely null & anybody could make them up. I was Roleblocked, already claimed, and thus would return as targeting nobody. Space is a flipped compulsive hider - therefore anybody targeting Space for any informational reason would’ve come back with “no result”.

[Galzria]

I don’t know if there are any mafia roles that could fake my results, but that’s what I have. I contemplated claiming yesterday, both before and after Galzria claimed his no result, but decided against it having no actionable information and because I’m generally not a popular night kill, especially not after being this lurky.

I appreciate Bright helping me not get quicklynched. Both targets until Galzria we’re pretty much random
among people I figured less likely to get killed (didn’t work with PPS).

A) There’s Mafia tracker
B) Your result on me and on Space are completely null & anybody could make them up. I was Roleblocked, already claimed, and thus would return as targeting nobody. Space is a flipped compulsive hider - therefore anybody targeting Space for any informational reason would’ve come back with “no result”.

And C) There’s nothing verifiable in your first night choice, it’s completely safe.

[Eevee]

Right. Can’t help that.

Would I fake claim like this?

[Galzria]

Right. Can’t help that.

Would I fake claim like this?

Why wouldn’t you? You have zero results that can be verified, or rather, zero results that can be contradicted.

[Eevee]

I mean, whatever. I know it looks bad, the truth is inconvenient like that.

[Galzria]

I mean, whatever. I know it looks bad, the truth is inconvenient like that.

The real-truth, I imagine,  looks far worse and is much more inconvenient than the fakeclaim.

[Eevee]

I don’t blame you for thinking that, or have a great defense.

If you lynch me anyway, I guess no point in continuing with the mass claim either. Better to keep the powerful town roles hidden.

[Brightgalrs]

I got the choice between vanilla town or town tracker.

N1 tracked PPS, he targeted EFHW
N2 tracked Space, got no result
N3 tracked Galzria, he targeted no one

N2 tracked Space, got no result

SpaceAnemone has been lynched! They were a Mafia Compulsive Hider!

Compulsive

Correct me if I'm wrong, but compulsive means he has no choice, he had to hide behind someone every night.

I still think we keep going with the claims, but that's undefendable.

[Brightgalrs]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but compulsive means he has no choice, he had to hide behind someone every night.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but compulsive means they had no choice, they had to hide behind someone every night.

[Galzria]

I got the choice between vanilla town or town tracker.

N1 tracked PPS, he targeted EFHW
N2 tracked Space, got no result
N3 tracked Galzria, he targeted no one

N2 tracked Space, got no result

SpaceAnemone has been lynched! They were a Mafia Compulsive Hider!

Compulsive

Correct me if I'm wrong, but compulsive means he has no choice, he had to hide behind someone every night.

I still think we keep going with the claims, but that's undefendable.

Correct, but as Eevee would be Targeting a Hider, his action would fail, thus producing No Result. Eevee has the resolution of that correct.

[Brightgalrs]

Correct, but as Eevee would be Targeting a Hider, his action would fail, thus producing No Result. Eevee has the resolution of that correct.

Woops.

Each night, you may target another player. If you do, you will be immune to all actions targeting you, but if your target dies, you will also die.

Each night, you may target another player. You will who, if anyone, that player targeted.

I guess the hiding ability takes priority over tracker.

Ok it's less clear cut.

[Brightgalrs]

I'm going to ask, because there's something with roleblockers and hiders that creates a paradox that needs to be resolved by some order of operations, so maybe it that carries over to this type of thing. Also intuitively, if we imagine all of this happening IRL, trackers and watchers would be the first to their posts.

Mod question: Would a Tracker who uses their ability on a Hider see who the Hider's target was?

[Galzria]

I'm going to ask, because there's something with roleblockers and hiders that creates a paradox that needs to be resolved by some order of operations, so maybe it that carries over to this type of thing. Also intuitively, if we imagine all of this happening IRL, trackers and watchers would be the first to their posts.

Mod question: Would a Tracker who uses their ability on a Hider see who the Hider's target was?

Natural order of resolution, Hider comes before everything:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution

[Galzria]

I'm going to ask, because there's something with roleblockers and hiders that creates a paradox that needs to be resolved by some order of operations, so maybe it that carries over to this type of thing. Also intuitively, if we imagine all of this happening IRL, trackers and watchers would be the first to their posts.

Mod question: Would a Tracker who uses their ability on a Hider see who the Hider's target was?

Natural order of resolution, Hider comes before everything:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution

And investigation is usually last.

[Brightgalrs]

There's a lot to pick at here.

N1 tracked PPS, he targeted EFHW

Random target, plausible.

N2 tracked Space, got no result

I don’t know if there are any mafia roles that could fake my results, but that’s what I have. I contemplated claiming yesterday, both before and after Galzria claimed his no result, but decided against it having no actionable information and because I’m generally not a popular night kill, especially not after being this lurky.

You must've thought you were roleblocked on Night 2, right? And then you must've seen it as pretty weird that Galzria was roleblocked on Night 2 as well. Why wouldn't you say anything? The conclusion would've been that one of you if lying (with Galzria coming off worse) or there are two roleblockers in the game, both are pretty good things to know.

N3 tracked Galzria, he targeted no one

Why? Yesterday they said they were being roleblocked, why would you pick them as a target when there was a 99% chance of them being roleblocked again?
And if you thought they were lying about being roleblocked, and that's why you targeted them, then why didn't you bring it up during the day?
Basically, either you believed them, and tracking them doesn't make sense. Or you thought they were lying, and yet you did not bring it up in the Day, which also doesn't make sense.

Natural order of resolution, Hider comes before everything:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution

That's a neat article, thank you. Investigative roles really get shafted, don't they?

[Eevee]

I for sure thought Galzria wasn’t lying out of the blue - thought most likely that we had the same target that was jailkept or similar. Hence I wanted to target Galzria, thinking he has a targeting role or some sort, either scum or town, wanted to see if he’d claim an honest target in the likely massclaim.

[Eevee]

after galzria’s claim, i thought most likely me and him targeted the same person and that’s why neither of us got a result.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm going to ask, because there's something with roleblockers and hiders that creates a paradox that needs to be resolved by some order of operations, so maybe it that carries over to this type of thing. Also intuitively, if we imagine all of this happening IRL, trackers and watchers would be the first to their posts.

Mod question: Would a Tracker who uses their ability on a Hider see who the Hider's target was?

No

[Brightgalrs]

Alright, well Eevee is still tempting lynching material, but let's shelve that for right now.

LaLight is next on my list, which I'd like Galz to comment on.

But if we (or rather, you who are left) mass claim here's my proposed order:

• Eevee
• LaLight
• Uncleeurope
• shraeye
• mail-mi
• Galzria

It's based off who I find the scummiest, with a bias towards Mafia.

[raerae]

Alright, well Eevee is still tempting lynching material, but let's shelve that for right now.

LaLight is next on my list, which I'd like Galz to comment on.

But if we (or rather, you who are left) mass claim here's my proposed order:

• Eevee
• LaLight
• Uncleeurope
• shraeye
• mail-mi
• Galzria

It's based off who I find the scummiest, with a bias towards Mafia.

Somehow I missed this when it was first posted and I'm not cool with either of you running this show.

[Swowl]

OK here is my Eevee break down. It is mainly based on verbiage and likelihood of choices...

I got the choice between vanilla town or town tracker.

N1 tracked PPS, he targeted EFHW
N2 tracked Space, got no result
N3 tracked Galzria, he targeted no one

Night 1 - Whatever, PPS -> EFHW... there are 20 choices at the time for Eevee and its Night 1. They picked someone... etc etc... unless someone can counter that in someway I can buy it.

Night 2 - Target Space. Got "no result" (that is important). Galz also claimed exact same verbiage of "no result" and claimed it.

Night 3 - Target Galz. Galz did not target anyone is the result Eevee gave.


Town!Eevee Narrative: They chose N1 because whatever. They chose N2 because Space had a skummy af discard. They then realize that they got "no result" and Galz claimed the exact same verbiage of "no result", so they assume that they both targeted Space. Cool, cool. Then they choose Galz... which is a just crazy strange choice to me here. Like this is the Town!Eevee Narrative and the only thing I can come up for reason wise is what Eevee said the reason was (to confirm Galz claim if it happens). But like that doesn't make sense to me. Either Galz is gonna be dead the next day, or they are gonna have a result. There is like literally no "not-town" role that Galz can have that would lead to a result on Faust Day 2. So I do not see why we would be suspicious of Galz here from Eevee's pov. So, it all makes sense until Galz on N3 to me.


Skum!Eevee Narrative: N1 they choose 2 dead players... whatever, they would have to pick something. N2 they realize the verbiage that Galz used and jump on it for a reason to assume both on Space after the Space flip is revealed (or Space flip could be news to them too and they are SK, WW, Alien)... Still, same end logic. N3 though... If they were faking a result on Galz, they would be screwed. They claimed that Galz did not target anyone... so either Galz themself were JKd (possible), or Galz was blocked (possible). But the thing is they were never winning a 1v1 vs Galz in this spot. So out of all the other options (any random person, saying they were blocked, etc) they chose to gamble on the Galz result. That just does not seem likely to me. That is, unless they knew it was true.


TLDR; I do not follow the logic on Town!Eevee choosing Galz as the N3 target. I also do not think they would risk the result as Skum outside of 2 specific circumstances - those being that Eevee is either a WW!RB or a Mafia!RB that targeted Galz N3 thus ensuring that they could get this result in safely.
We are doing the claim thing, so I am not voting now, but my vote can be considered on Eevee at this point.

[shraeye]

vote: Eevee

I agree with Galz's initial assessment that Eevee looks like a good bet for Space's partner.  It seems that a lot of shots went out last night looking for her partner; a bit weird because going back to 4 kills kinda suggests there is a mafia shot as well.  Or, mafia bussed, and Eevee ain't her partner.  ORR, Eevee thought with 2 kills on N2, that Alien plus Bright kill happened night 1 and it wouldn't be too dangerous to shoot on-wagon.

I know those viewpoints are conflicted, but I have all 3 of them.  I'm definitely thinking Eevee as Space's partner, but I'll allow the possibility that I'm wrong.

I think this definitely points to multiple kills hitting the same target on N2; not the most helpful or insightful observation, whatever.

[shraeye]

Space is "they".  I'll pull more text from this individually, I feel like I have a lot to unpack from this post.

Uh but really Space's suspicion was spot on. Their suspicion stemmed from my incompetence, really. And arguing against that was pretty stressful, let's just say I rage quit yesterday. (Also the stuff about wanting to get mail-mi to claim was just me grasping at straws, pay no attention, might've been true, but in retrospect, no).

I don't get it.  You're saying Space being suspicious of you was 100% spot-on?  SHOULD we be suspicious of you?  Well, should we??

Also, bold move, admitting to drumming up stuff on mail-mi being just a desperate ploy.

Yes, Werewolf One-shot PGO is possible, maybe it's best not to jump to conclusions.

The WW/Town Parrot could've targeted pubby, killing him.

The regular Town Vigilante is possible, but probably not.

Why is the Werewolf PGO too much of a conclusion to jump to? Would a Parrot really kill a vanilla scum if they targeted them? Why is Town Vig not probable?

This is super super confusing to me.  Why caution about jumping to conclusions while immediately making another niche conclusion, followed by throwing out another one with no explanation?

I've been dancing around the issue, but it could've been a second Serial Killer who killed Night 1, held their kill on Night 2, and then killed last night. Basically what everyone suspects me of. Hopefully whatever mail-mi has on me can satisfy this suspicion.

0-1 Werewolves

Actually I'm inclined to believe pubby was definitely not the last WW. As I said way way back, if he controls a kill, he'll kill me. So the only explanation is he wasn't alone. I think that logic overrides the above logic about my SK suspicion preventing him from killing me. It sorta supports the WW PGO theory too.

I feel like you're basically telling us you are a serial Killer.  Why are you so sure there is a Serial Killer that you are now talking about there being a second one?  Also, what makes you think pubby didn't try to kill you?  If you are SK, there is a high likelihood you are either WW-immune or 2-shot bulletproof.  That would really really help account for a missing kill night 2.