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[mail-mi]

also I think MiX's wagon moved up too quickly and has stayed too long for it to be on scum (not sure if it still exists right now tho)

[mail-mi]

this post brought to you by the Committee to Artificially Inflate mail-mi's Post Count.

[mail-mi]

faust backs out of his philosophical ramblings, which was inevitable. Still have a slight scum read

[mail-mi]

hi efhw. Not sure how I feel about them, maybe slight scum? I don't have any reasons for it, just gut.

[silverspawn]

I also wasn't making an appeal to authority. Debatepro said this and I want to make sure it doesn't become a thing anyone else believes. My post was just "look, there seems to be a near perfect split of players with all vets being off wagon, isn't that kind of interesting?" I didn't draw any conclusions about it except some weak theorizing about how the scum team would treat the wagon. It's kind of moot now since the observation wasn't even correct, but nonetheless, I didn't say and didn't mean to say that the wagon was bad because no vets are on it.

That's how the "non-vets" took it especially when it's coupled with "weak theorizing".

That may be how you took it. Why are you generalizing to other people?

I'm not going to say that I have no responsibility for people reading things into what I write that aren't literally there, because, well, words mean what people think they mean and if my writing is commonly misunderstood, that's something I should fix. On the other hand, it's pretty annoying to constantly think about what something could imply and then add a disclaimer that this isn't what I mean. Communicating clearly is a genuinely difficult problem.

But I can tell you right now that I don't like hinting at things without really saying them, at least not important things. Moreover, I think I'm unusually difficult to predict if you don't know me well and the way I think is unusual, so if you guess what I might have meant, you'll go wrong quite often. Long story short, if I didn't say something then I most likely didn't mean to imply it, either. Please take me by what I say.

Being incorrect about your "observation" is somewhat interesting, is it common for highly regarded and skilled players to make ~mistakes~ like that?

I think it's safe to say that it's common for me but less common for most other vets. (Talking about these kinds of little mistakes in particular, not mistakes in general)

But also -- I have to question you on your choice of words there. This post really feels to me like you're trying to paint some kind of narrative of low status people vs arrogant high status people. For one, you called vets "highly regarded and skilled?" Who says vets are highly regarded and skilled? That's certainly not true for every vet, and I'm sure I never said anything to that effect. Then you framed me making a mistake in a way that almost feels like you're trying to get me to admit that vets can make mistakes, as if that's a big deal.

Status is a real thing and I think often toxic if it's in the background with everyone pretending like it's not there. If you have any particular point you want to make about status, I think it's best if you make it explicitly.

[mail-mi]

also not sure how I feel about raerae. My townread on faust is growing (though that may just be because he's faust).

[silverspawn]

faust backs out of his philosophical ramblings, which was inevitable. Still have a slight scum read

also not sure how I feel about raerae. My townread on faust is growing (though that may just be because he's faust).

Did you mean scumread there?

[mail-mi]

faust backs out of his philosophical ramblings, which was inevitable. Still have a slight scum read

also not sure how I feel about raerae. My townread on faust is growing (though that may just be because he's faust).

Did you mean scumread there?

no i meant townread. Let me say it a little more clearly: "my scumread on faust is weakening" or "faust is a little townier now." He's still slight scum for me rn

[mail-mi]

at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon

[mail-mi]

lalight isn't looking to good to me rn either.

[MiX]

answers debatepro

You said you didn't want big arguments this game right? I suggest you don't push this, I doubt it helps anyone, especially you.

@DatSwan, why is your vote still on mail-mi?

[silverspawn]

Does that mean that you can have both a townread and a scumread on someone at the same time, and whatever is stronger determines how you feel overall?

That would be using "townread" as in "evidence for towniness" and not as in "overall conclusion" as I use it.

[silverspawn]

answers debatepro

You said you didn't want big arguments this game right? I suggest you don't push this, I doubt it helps anyone, especially you.

Fewer big arguments in general, not just this game. But I didn't want to ignore him, and that post didn't feel to me like it would lead to a big argument. Certainly wasn't intended to.

[mail-mi]

datswan is making no sense in his "claiming town" argument against raerae. Not sure if it makes him scum.

Does that mean that you can have both a townread and a scumread on someone at the same time, and whatever is stronger determines how you feel overall?

That would be using "townread" as in "evidence for towniness" and not as in "overall conclusion" as I use it.

yes that was the meaning i was getting at. though I also don't usually use the term that way, but I'm rereading and typing fast during a lunch break at school so that's what we got.

[mail-mi]

current reads:

Debatepro - new, null
faust - slight scum rn
mail-mi - the IC that's not dead
silverspawn - is silverspawn, null
Uncleeurope - newbie, willing to give a D1 pass, null otherwise.
DatSwan - slightly scummy
MiX - towny
LaLight - slightly scummy
Joseph2302 - slightly scummy
arishipshape - towny
shraeye - null
EFHW - null-to-scum
raerae - slight scum

[arishipshape]

ari (ariship? Airship?) continually hearkens back to the fact that he's used to 10 minute mafia. Seems a little bit suspicious to me "Hey guys, I know I'm messing up, but remember, I'm not used to this!" "Remember, I'm not used to this!" "Sorry, but remember, I'm not used to this."

I say that to explain my accidental anti-town moves. Something that is pro-town in 10 minute mafia may be anti town in 10 day mafia. Any mistakes I make, I make once and apologize for.

[Debatepro]

I also wasn't making an appeal to authority. Debatepro said this and I want to make sure it doesn't become a thing anyone else believes. My post was just "look, there seems to be a near perfect split of players with all vets being off wagon, isn't that kind of interesting?" I didn't draw any conclusions about it except some weak theorizing about how the scum team would treat the wagon. It's kind of moot now since the observation wasn't even correct, but nonetheless, I didn't say and didn't mean to say that the wagon was bad because no vets are on it.

That's how the "non-vets" took it especially when it's coupled with "weak theorizing".

That may be how you took it. Why are you generalizing to other people?

See #496 Joseph replying to Shraeye who questioned you about your characterization about raeyae and shraeye's newbyness.

Being incorrect about your "observation" is somewhat interesting, is it common for highly regarded and skilled players to make ~mistakes~ like that?

I think it's safe to say that it's common for me but less common for most other vets. (Talking about these kinds of little mistakes in particular, not mistakes in general) But also -- I have to question you on your choice of words there. This post really feels to me like you're trying to paint some kind of narrative of low status people vs arrogant high status people. For one, you called vets "highly regarded and skilled?" Who says vets are highly regarded and skilled? That's certainly not true for every vet, and I'm sure I never said anything to that effect. Then you framed me making a mistake in a way that almost feels like you're trying to get me to admit that vets can make mistakes, as if that's a big deal. Status is a real thing and I think often toxic if it's in the background with everyone pretending like it's not there. If you have any particular point you want to make about status, I think it's best if you make it explicitly.

I wasn't making the claim about vets v. newbs, you did by breaking it down in your post. I also am not making a low status people versus high status people claim, its my understanding that there are a few players that are skilled and highly regarded, so much so that they are often targeted in N1, see:

faust is usually an advocate for doing lots D1 (partly because they often get night killed N1)

If my memory serves me correctly you are one of those players. Consider it a positive complement that your reputation precedes you. 

[raerae]

at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon

Any particular reason?

[mail-mi]

at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon

Any particular reason?

Dunno, I like what everyone else has been saying. It's not strong nor solid by any means. Willing to change for something better.

[raerae]

at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon

Any particular reason?

Dunno, I like what everyone else has been saying. It's not strong nor solid by any means. Willing to change for something better.

Help me out then, I'm a little bit drunk (we're in the part of the Midwest that's been at -50, don't you judge me, Earl Hickey), what has everyone else been saying?

[EFHW]

at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon

Any particular reason?

Dunno, I like what everyone else has been saying. It's not strong nor solid by any means. Willing to change for something better.

You also suspect Lalight, who has been the main person suspecting raerae. I didn't finish my typing yet, but I'll jump to the end to say I'm not interested in voting raerae and vote:Lalight. No smoking gun, just preliminary results that I'll talk up hoping to do well at my annual review.

[Swowl]

answers debatepro

You said you didn't want big arguments this game right? I suggest you don't push this, I doubt it helps anyone, especially you.

@DatSwan, why is your vote still on mail-mi?

Because i didn’t like any of the other wagons when the mal-mi one died out. It is nearing end of day though - i will put it somewhere useful soon.

[silverspawn]

No-one interested in LaLight?

[Uncleeurope]

I am not against voting for LL, he is in a similar place to some of my other picks, it is a lot harder to build cases against “Uber-null” and a lot of the time the “Uber-nulls” are the ones to be wary of.

Is there more to the LL case other than being generally unhelpful? I mean it’s okay if there isn’t, I jut am wondering what separates LL from, say, Joseph or EFHW?

Would you say that LL has been less helpful than the rest of the non-talkers? (Of course I had you in that group until your recent surge in activity, so maybe you deserve to still be in that group).

[EFHW]

LaLight - 26 posts

I'd say 13 of LL's posts are playing the game and 13 are commenting on the game or players.

80 RVS votes DatSwan
90 Loves Ari, votes MiX. Never does say why. He was 4th on wagon after Debpro, Eddie and Ari.
98 sudden question for faust - is he town-aligned?
106 v. silver, scumslip
111 Not a scumslip but leaving vote. Because.
334 v. raerae because she's been asking questions rather than scumhunting.
338 It's hard not knowing the playstyle of half the playerlist. Why do people do reads lists?
339 At least one of silver/faust is scum, sees good chance to catch scum in raerae. DatSwan has been inattentive.
340 Shraeye is town.
351 raerae's questions lead nowhere and she takes no stances.
353, 356 silver/faust don't read like town/town. They seem to be interacting carefully with each other.
392 Concerned may have offended raerae, apologizes. Wants her reactions to the answers she gets to her questions. Her case is better than nothing. Townread on Shraeye is intuition.

To assess LaLight's case, I had to reread raerae. I do not feel his description matches her play. She does ask a lot of questions. That is her M.O., and on many occasions I have turned to her technique as a way to keep a game going. She has taken a very vigorous stance with her Shraeye/MiX theory. She also stated opinions on keeping discussion going rather than lynching quickly, a pro-town position, and challenged the towncred some people have been giving faust for his town claim. As I have said before, she could do these things as scum, but I don't see any evidence at this time and she is helping the game. So I won't be voting her.

Is LaLight's scumread on her scummy? It's pretty superficial scum-hunting. I add that to the paucity of content (even less than me!) and setting up a silver/faust lynch pair and I lean scum on him. Marginal p-value, but that's what I've got.