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[UmbrageOfSnow]

Vote Count 1.3
Why do Marxists only drink herbal tea?

Because all proper tea is theft.

Dylan32 (3): DatSwan, MiX, EFHW
MiX (2): Debatepro, shraeye
silverspawn (2): Joseph2302, LaLight
raerae (2): faust, silverspawn
arishipshape (1): Uncleeurope
shraeye (1): raerae

Not Voting (2): Dylan32, arishipshape

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm

[Swowl]

Space after the semi-colon to increase derphammers and fake hammers and vote miscounts I mean, I'm vote counting by hand anyway, so I'm taking a radically free approach to voting.

No problems from me - just was pointing out to be polite

[faust]

faust, all you've been doing this game was post famous quotes and vote people silently, where's the faust that asks questions? that acts secretive but with a purpose? that constantly makes people go for a wagon because you're scumreading them?

One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

[Joseph2302]

I've always thought the space thing was silly.

Space won't be pleased to hear this

[MiX]

Why would I defend a scumbuddy's case on me if I have no reason to? Probably digging my grave with the question...

PPE

This has been bugging me.  A better question is why would you defend ANYBODY'S case on you if you're town?  I don't understand why you would say, "Look, this guy total has a legit case, just look at it!" when he hadn't actually said anything.  We keep discussing this like shraeye has said ANYTHING but he hasn't done anything but vote for you and you're giving him some weird sort of cred for that. 

I assumed I had slipped *something* and shraeye had picked it up, sometimes people vote for reasons they don't want to disclose right away, so I didn't push it. You can see my thinking about the vote in the following posts:

Vote: MiX

Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.

Oooh, Oooh, I know! Is it because OMGUS? Or do you have actual reasoning behind your vote?

So you think if those three have one guess all the others have more? Technically correct and awesome

Real answer: I still want more from shraeye, the vote's okay but the reasoning is what I crave! Say it so I can move on.

Vote: MiX

I guess you know the reason and it's better than I thought.

I'm willing to destroy whatever slip he thinks I did and why that's part of my town meta, but he hasn't actually said what it is yet...

[MiX]

Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...

It was a great choice of 3 people; all of them have ignored the question so far... (one had less availability, but all three have said something since then)

Great choice for you to not get an answer? Nice job.

If they don't want to play the guessing game, maybe it's time to say what this "reason" is, unless you think the guessing game's still good, despite all 3 of your contestants ignoring it.

If you don't, I'll simply assume you did that for me to get off your back and I'll go right back at ya, but for now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; dylan's wagon's getting bigger somehow, that's a good spot to be in.

Ok scincerly apologize for absence thus far. I am out of the work cluster i was in and will be catching up now and should be able to consistently be around.

Hello there! Care to add anything to what's been happening? I see you've quoted a recent post, but maybe your reread is going backwards...

[Joseph2302]

Post count:

Debatepro: 9
faust: 16
Dylan32: 12
ss: 16
Uncleeurope: 11
DatSwan: 7
MiX: 34
LaLight: 13
Joseph2302: 9
arishipshape (not airship like most people have been posting!): 22
shraeye: 7
EFHW: 8
raerae: 20

[Joseph2302]

So MiX seems towny, contributing a lot and trying to get game moving
ariship as well. Don't want to lynch contributing newbies D1 as it'll just encourage lurkiness in future games

faust has a lot of posts, but not much meaningful at all

I don't see the scumslip on ss/faust

MiX wagon is just a wagon, L-2 is quite close (comparative to most other things this early in D1)

uncle seems reasonably towny to me too

[MiX]

Splendid work Joseph, I knew I could count on you.

If it's not too much to ask, what do you think of raerae/shraeye? Oh and Debatepro.

dylan has 12 posts? well I'll be damned, I thought he hadn't posted at all!...How did you miss this?

[EFHW]

request prod on Dylan

[arishipshape]

Good morning! I am reborn once more! Now meet the new me.

Post count
arishipshape (not airship like most people have been posting!): 22

Airships are awesome. Feel free to call me airship.
I want Dylan to show up. Lurking is scummy. vote: dylan MiX keeps my fos.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I've always thought the space thing was silly.

Space won't be pleased to hear this

I don't want that! They seem like they'd be a dangerous anemone.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

A prod has been sent to Dylan.

It actually will have only been 48 hours since the game started later this afternoon, so if he posts before then it won't count against him in terms of accumulating prods towards being force-replaced/modkilled-if-there-is-no-replacement.

Normally I differentiate these things and say the first thing is a "poke" but I forgot that I do that until just a second ago.

[Joseph2302]

Splendid work Joseph, I knew I could count on you.

If it's not too much to ask, what do you think of raerae/shraeye? Oh and Debatepro.

dylan has 12 posts? well I'll be damned, I thought he hadn't posted at all!...How did you miss this?

Clearly I miscounted, and it's 1 or 2

[Uncleeurope]

I remembered my hazy second point(s) about why I am worried by MiX:

Here it looked like he challenged me to vote for him as like a reverse psychology attempt or something, which I felt was misplaced and weird.

Unvote

Request vote count

Is that how that’s done?

This MiX wagon has been gaining a lot of traction, I just wanna make sure we aren’t at L-1 or something.

Don't worry, feel free to push my mislynch, I had 4 votes before the Unvote, I've been tracking them 

There is also his defense he provided for ss which struck me as not caring about scum-hunting.

There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.

I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.

You have no scumreads whatsoever? I find that bizarre, surely you are suspicious of someone.

Notice how he said he's not SURE anyone is scummy, not that there are no scums nor that he doesn't have a hunch that specific people are being scummy.

he also kinda defended ss here, although much less blatently when he PPE'd in defending ss's "scum slip"

PPE 2: I think it's clear that the scum team's 3 people, isn't that what's common in a 13 player game?

and lastly this also felt weird to me when Mix essentially took townie advice right after he was given it by starting to ask why people were voting him more openly:

I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.

I've heard everyone's explanations; I have no reason to fight back against their cases if not by pointing out that they're wrong, panicking does not help the town effort: after all, it's still early D1

Can you unvote me/explain why you're voting me? you gave me FoS for buddying, but is that enough for a vote?

The points for pro-town MiX are interesting though, his posting often and regularly will be taken into account, (and my vote will stay on AIRship for the time being) but I wouldn't mind a MiX death from my perspective.

[MiX]

I want Dylan to show up. Lurking is scummy. vote: dylan MiX keeps my fos.

Lurking isn't scummy, these dylan votes are mostly for pressure, to make sure he does something when he does post. The vote's welcome, however.

I remembered my hazy second point(s) about why I am worried by MiX:

Good, let's see what those are...

Here it looked like he challenged me to vote for him as like a reverse psychology attempt or something, which I felt was misplaced and weird.

Unvote

Request vote count

Is that how that’s done?

This MiX wagon has been gaining a lot of traction, I just wanna make sure we aren’t at L-1 or something.

Don't worry, feel free to push my mislynch, I had 4 votes before the Unvote, I've been tracking them 

You were being cautious...it made no sense to me, because I, for some reason, assumed that you had the same availability as me and could thus reread the game (it had only been 6 pages).  So I answered with a joke, the smiley means I'm not being serious by the way.

There is also his defense he provided for ss which struck me as not caring about scum-hunting.

There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.

I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.

You have no scumreads whatsoever? I find that bizarre, surely you are suspicious of someone.

Notice how he said he's not SURE anyone is scummy, not that there are no scums nor that he doesn't have a hunch that specific people are being scummy.

I already stated my reason for this, but I agree that you shouldn't accept it: I could've faked it, after all.

he also kinda defended ss here, although much less blatently when he PPE'd in defending ss's "scum slip"

PPE 2: I think it's clear that the scum team's 3 people, isn't that what's common in a 13 player game?

I give defenses when they're due: I assumed the scum team had 3 members, why can't ss do the same?

and lastly this also felt weird to me when Mix essentially took townie advice right after he was given it by starting to ask why people were voting him more openly:

I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.

I've heard everyone's explanations; I have no reason to fight back against their cases if not by pointing out that they're wrong, panicking does not help the town effort: after all, it's still early D1

Can you unvote me/explain why you're voting me? you gave me FoS for buddying, but is that enough for a vote?

I saw that he FoSed me while voting for me, seemed like he wasn't aware he was already voting for me, so I asked if he still wanted the vote there. A simple "yes" would be insufficient, because it lacked the reason (yes, he gave me the reason to FoS, but not to vote), so I also asked for it. Afterwards, ss said "challenging votes is pro-town", so I started doing it more.

There, that's my reactive post, next will be proactive.

[arishipshape]

I want Dylan to show up. Lurking is scummy. vote: dylan MiX keeps my fos.

Lurking isn't scummy, these dylan votes are mostly for pressure, to make sure he does something when he does post. The vote's welcome, however.

Lurking is absolutely scummy! Lurking deprives the town of information, which is the one thing it lacks. If the town has information and numbers, it can easily win. Remember, the mafia fights with having information, the town numbers. The scum will never have numbers, the town can get information. But only if nobody lurks!

[MiX]

(and my vote will stay on AIRship for the time being)

Why ARE you voting for ari? his 180 turn on me? he did explain it, in his towny-fashioned way, in this post:

To the general game, I think starting a bandwagon on 1 person is better than starting 3. Therefore, I shall change my vote to vote: MiX. Especially because of that random buddying. If at any point I accidentally make an anti town vote, please explain to me why it was bad immediately, as I am still a noob.

That's not nearly enough to vote, at least in my book, but I did townread him for his initial posts, do you not? They were reeeeeally good.



And now, Debatepro, if these questions are truly "irrelevent to the discussion" and "self-evident", you'll have no problem answering them, since their answer is NAI (Not Alignment Indicative), at least from your perspective. So:

Oh "the most scummiest thing I have ever read in all of the mafia games I've ever played" is just this one...funny. Was that intentional?

And

Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...

Anyway, I think your reasoning is clear, vote: dylan32, someone else needs a push to get in this game. DatSwan's also quiet, but bigger wagons are better.

PPE 3

I take back what is said above in this post, throwing shade on 7 other players when your getting some votes for being scummy is in fact most scummiest thin i have ever read in all the mafia games I've ever played.

How am I throwing shade on 7 players?

And which players, while you're at it, I only count 6 if you think "throwing shade" is mentioning them at all (partial quote, just cut shraeye's part).

If you won't answer them, at least state that in such a way that it is painfully obvious to everyone.

PPE 1: Lurking is NAI, you don't know how busy dylan is...it's also only been 2 IRL days.

[MiX]

Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...

Anyway, I think your reasoning is clear, vote: dylan32, someone else needs a push to get in this game. DatSwan's also quiet, but bigger wagons are better.

PPE 3

I take back what is said above in this post, throwing shade on 7 other players when your getting some votes for being scummy is in fact most scummiest thin i have ever read in all the mafia games I've ever played.

How am I throwing shade on 7 players?

And which players, while you're at it, I only count 6 if you think "throwing shade" is mentioning them at all (partial quote, just cut shraeye's part).

Before anyone points out the mistake I made: it's 7 people if you count everyone mentioned (I forgot raerae technically appears since I quoted him); if this is why you said 7 people, why do you assume that I am "throwing shade" on everyone I mention? (Still asking debatepro)

[Uncleeurope]

I admit my cases on MiX aren’t the strongest. My main thoughts surrounding this is that all of them combined seems convenient and requires too many individual explaination for my liking. That combined with my paranoid feeling that you are scum makes this tricky.

As for ASS (well that didn’t work, back to AIRship) his 180 from blatantly disagreeing with me to voting for me isn’t covered by the aforementioned post. At least not to me. I think it’s fair to be suspicious of him for this reason. Especially considering how proud his post seemed to be disagreeing with me, even throwing a comic at me. Just seems odd.

Though it seems my two suspects are the favorite town candidates for people right now so maybe I just suck. I would be interested in hearing cases on other players at this junction.

[MiX]

Though it seems my two suspects are the favorite town candidates for people right now so maybe I just suck. I would be interested in hearing cases on other players at this junction.

I don't think you suck, I'm having a hard time defending both of your scumreads, and they're my two townreads! They're good cases, I just think our metas are not what you think they are.

For others to scumread, may I interest you in debatepro? If you can, try to see why he's tunneling me, everytime I try to ask him things he dismisses them...maybe you can reason with him?

Er...I think that's another question for Debatepro: Why are you not interacting with anyone else other than me and ari? You acknowledge other's existence, but it seems like we're the only people you've expressed reads on.

[arishipshape]

I admit my cases on MiX aren’t the strongest. My main thoughts surrounding this is that all of them combined seems convenient and requires too many individual explaination for my liking. That combined with my paranoid feeling that you are scum makes this tricky.

As for ASS (well that didn’t work, back to AIRship) his 180 from blatantly disagreeing with me to voting for me isn’t covered by the aforementioned post. At least not to me. I think it’s fair to be suspicious of him for this reason. Especially considering how proud his post seemed to be disagreeing with me, even throwing a comic at me. Just seems odd.

Though it seems my two suspects are the favorite town candidates for people right now so maybe I just suck. I would be interested in hearing cases on other players at this junction.

When was this 180? Mind if you post some quotes from me demonstrating this? And when did I ever vote for you? Or do you mean vote with you? Also, no hard feelings about the comic. I had just read it and found it hilarious

[Uncleeurope]

Yes, I meant when you voted with me, not for me.

You went from this:

This be some bizarre buddying behavior from MiX followed by his conclusion that he should be prepared for his buddy to be scum, when buddying is a term that I would associate with something scum does.

Obviously this conclusively proves him to be scum.

Vote: MiX

I had no idea this game was so easy.

Buddying, while suspicious, is not conclusive evidence. The fact that I am new also shrouds his decisions regarding his play towards me with doubt. His conclusion of preparation for my scum (which will not occur) is merely reactionary to the fact that again, I am new and therefore entirely unpredictable. Buddying with me may be a good move, or an awful one. Considering the man you are buddying with to possibly be scum is merely good play. Expressing that might have not been the best move, but again, you claimed conclusive evidence. Of course, considering the fallacy fallacy, this doesn't prove you wrong. I actually lean towards agreeing with you. FOS MiX, but I keep my vote. For now, I go to die. Tomorrow, you will meet the new me!

Image was obnoxiously large, I've resized it for you—Your friendly power-mad mod

To this:

No need to dumb it down for me, I picked up what you were putting down in that first post but I was curious whether you thought it was a good idea or a bad one.  Fairly straight-forward yes or no question.  You used quite a few more words than that.  Interesting.

Vote: arishipshape

But without excess verbiage how am I to remain true to the theme of this mafia game? Philosophers are forced to use "quite a few more words than that" to express convoluted and nuanced thoughts. Sure, if you asked if it was a good idea I could have just said "yes", but that gives the town nearly no information about me. If I speak far more than "yes", it is not due to scummyness, but due to the underlying philosophy that my words are endowed with.

To the general game, I think starting a bandwagon on 1 person is better than starting 3. Therefore, I shall change my vote to vote: MiX. Especially because of that random buddying. If at any point I accidentally make an anti town vote, please explain to me why it was bad immediately, as I am still a noob.

Just seemed like a strange switch in a short time frame. But I could be reading too much into this.

[Dylan32]

Sorry guys and gals. My car messed up this week and I've been dealing with that the last 48 hours. I'll catch up either later this evening or tomorrow.

[MiX]

Rereading ari, I think I can say why ari's giving you that vibe.

He essencially has 2 stances: one where he's exuberent, saying what's on his mind merely because he thinks it's fun; examples are all the "!" in his posts, his early posts had that feel, but his recent ones have them as all, like here:

Lurking is absolutely scummy! Lurking deprives the town of information, which is the one thing it lacks. If the town has information and numbers, it can easily win. Remember, the mafia fights with having information, the town numbers. The scum will never have numbers, the town can get information. But only if nobody lurks!

And one where he's serious, trying his hardest to be as towny as possible, a good example is:

I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.

Note how his exuberent state is usually flavoury, while the other shows some caution; he's scared that his moves could be anti-town.

One of the big differences between these is his position on me: in the first one, he's null on me, in the other, he's FoSing me, I believe this is where your discrepancy lies.

Sorry guys and gals. My car messed up this week and I've been dealing with that the last 48 hours. I'll catch up either later this evening or tomorrow.

Hello there! I hope you commit to that catching up, you have quite a wagon.