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[EFHW]

Thanks for the game, LL. Agree with Skumpy that the direction the flavor was heading was disturbing.

I am sorry if that disturbed you. I tried to motivate town play better with a help of the flavor, for them to feel they really are responsible for the main character and I was interested how this will turn out.

Not complaining

[Awaclus]

I don't usually care very much for flavor but I think the flavor here was pretty cool.

[LaLight]

I don't usually care very much for flavor but I think the flavor here was pretty cool.

Thanks!

[silverspawn]

I never tried to undermine your wagon reasoning Space. I tried to curb it because I have seen wagons go exactly the way you don't think they're supposed to go.

Yeah, to be fair, the wagon arguments certainly worked particularly well here because Robz said we shouldn't bus, and if he hadn't, they might have been less on point.  But nonetheless, an argument that's so clear-cut alignment indicative is rare.

[SpaceAnemone]

I never tried to undermine your wagon reasoning Space. I tried to curb it because I have seen wagons go exactly the way you don't think they're supposed to go.

Yeah, to be fair, the wagon arguments certainly worked particularly well here because Robz said we shouldn't bus, and if he hadn't, they might have been less on point.  But nonetheless, an argument that's so clear-cut alignment indicative is rare.

Why do you think they would have been less on point? Do you think scum voting for scum dissuades townies from also voting on those scums?

Note that the "at least 1 scum in {X, Y, Z}" types of constraints work just as well if both X and Y are scum, and Y and Z happen to be the only non-conf!town players on X's wagon out of a whole bunch of conf!townies. So the three example wagons below would all suggest the same "at least one scum in {X, Y, Z} constraint:
X (6): Y, Z, G, G, G
Y (6): G, G, Z, G, X
G (6): X, Y, G, Z, G
In the first two, there could be bussing if both X and Y are scum, and the constraint still holds. If Z flips scum, though, there's no PoE this way with the other two, without using additional information. (Though there could easily be extra info out there making one think that if Z is scum then so is Y... it's just a limitation of that particular mode of constraint-generation).

I guess the main effect I can think of would be that more scum-on-scum voting might encourage more town-on-town voting just because people get nervous running big wagons up early on, but if that gave an advantage to scum, I don't see why scum wouldn't use it more. The only ways scum can avoid this kind of PoEing would be to behave in ways that encourages bigger town-on-town wagons to form, without themselves having to join them. Well, that and being more careful about which townies they flip, though there's already wifom in whether scum want to kill on-wagon or off.. just usually they only care about the EoD wagon on the previous night, rather than the full set of wagons across the entire game history.

[Robz888]

Okay, finally have time to get to this. Yay, a win! I feel like I did next to nothing to contribute to it. Good job, silver.

I do think we were going to pull it off, even without the mod kill. Seemed likely gkrieg or skumpy was going down before both me and silver, and EFHW/Space's PRs were no threat.

[Robz888]

Also should have seen Robz as scum when he put someone to L-1 without the IC being on the wagon.

The Robz vote on me end of D1 was also pretty damning. Town!Robz is not afraid of scum!Galz, and definitely sees more value in a potential town!Galz being in the game. This is especially true when there is next to no case on me. Scum!Robz on the other hand, would definitely prefer town!Galz out early. The quick switch and then disappearing act to get the wagon going was pretty convincingly a scum move - but really only if you're familiar enough with our histories and meta's.

What I was trying to do was play off the notion that maybe town!Robz would be feeling less inclined to go to bat for Galz early on, after your recent streak of hammering me and then trying to get me killed as your QT buddy.

[Robz888]

We really should have focused more on Robz. He was scum to me once he started the Galz wagon. If we had put more pressure on him, he would have handled it fine, though, and there was no evidence. When he claimed VT, that was very telling because the claim order shouldn't have mattered at all to a VT. When gkrieg said he was surprised no one fakeclaimed, I literally read that as a scumpartner defending Robz.

I protested the claim order because I thought town!Robz would be indignant about not being assumed to be town at this point.

But yes you should have focused on me more. I've never been so under-scrutinized, and doubt I ever will be again.