Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Robz888]

Oh yeah and maybe TWM should clarify vaguely whether he got a result on Cuzz?

Spoiler: he didn’t

Well then a bit of clarification could help you know whether to vote for him!

I am starting to halfway think that me, PPS, and TWM should just clarify the things we have alluded to.

Cons: tells scum better how to handle the town PRs by a lot.

Pros: clarifies a lot of confusion that may be leading to bad town decision making

Someone is probably lying scum so we can get that person locked into a story.

What do others think?

NO DON'T. NO NEED.

[Robz888]

https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s

i have called you son, i've made amends
between, father and son

or if you haven't one, rest in my arms
sleep in my bed
there's a design
to what i did and said, rest in my arms [...]

Galzria has died in the night! he was vito, a town even-night watcher

I am 100% positive he originally flipped as 2-shot. schadd has since editted this.

yeah

I am confused by this, and it needs to be clarified. Schadd, are you acknowledging that the flip was changed--you posted it wrong and then fixed it?

i initially posted galz was a 2-shot watcher and then edited it shortly after to even-night watcher

[Robz888]

Here again now. I'm still in the office and it's almost midnight.. this hasn't been my day!

Exciting to under rather less suspicion than D1. I can confirm I'm 100% town :-) I still feel I'm a slightly odd target compared to Faust/Robz/mcmc, but I don't think I mind PPS's stated reasoning.

That is a scummy thing to say, why say it? Why be like "hey remember me? I was suspicious!"

So, funny story, at the point in time I posted this, I was behind, and didn't realize PPS had confirmed Space to be town. My bad.

[Robz888]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

[Robz888]

Reads!

Mcmc still seems like obvtown, or else he's just mimicking his town meta perfectly.

I read all the quasi claimants--TWM, pps, and iguana (wait, iguana's thing is some weird townslip claim from the beginning, right? I guess it no longer seems quite as significantly mitigating but oh well for now)--as town.

Space is definitely town, sure.

I'm going back and forth on LaLight.

Faust and DS seem scummy. Teproc seems waaaaaay scummy. I've never seen town Teproc lurk this much, hang out in the background. He's usually a commanding town presence.

Am I missing anyone? Guess not. I'd lynch faust for sure, probably DS, Teproc, or LaLight.

[iguanaiguana]

OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.

This is another reason that I said DatSwan doesn't always seem to read closely.

[iguanaiguana]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

What about killing Galz to frame Faust?

[Robz888]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

What about killing Galz to frame Faust?

WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I want Teproc to post, but I don't see any reason to find them scummy for it at this point. From what I can tell Teproc is typically just as active as scum as he is town. Thus I think the lack of activity is due to being busy, and that is not a good enough reason to lynch at this point in the game.

Now we can have a conversation about the posts that he has given. But nothing really stood out to me from before.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

What about killing Galz to frame Faust?

Is this something mafia teams even think about? I don't think I have ever been involved with a scum team that goes into a night with that mindset. From my experience as mafia it has always, been to kill strong/active town players and those likely to be PRs.

[Swowl]

There's been a bit of talk/speculation about town PRs, but not a lot of discussion about scum roles or about modifiers.

@TWM, do you see anything in a "normal" mafiascum game setup that might interfere with the validity of the result you have on Cuzz? I've realised stuff like Framer, Redirector and Godfather are all "non-normal", so actually PR results are a lot more useful than I'd first assumed, unless I'm missing a bunch of reasons why a PR might not trust their results.

@swan, is all the reasoning you've done so far taking into account the full range of modifiers available? I think the answer may well be yes, but you haven't mentioned them. Having been a weak doctor in a game that finished recently, I'm quite aware that some modifiers completely change the feel of the role.

The other thing I'm thinking is that if we're discussing having our PRs claim, then it might tell us more about the power of the scumteam. However, if one of our claimed PRs isn't telling the truth, then that might give scum more of an opportunity to screw with us. Though if we can trust PR results 100%, then that's maybe not as dangerous as it could have been.

After screwing up which roles the first time i went over in great detail his time. I am not saying i am for sure perfect but my general thoughts were sharing further ideas would only potentially help skum come up with a lie.

[Robz888]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

What about killing Galz to frame Faust?

Is this something mafia teams even think about? I don't think I have ever been involved with a scum team that goes into a night with that mindset. From my experience as mafia it has always, been to kill strong/active town players and those likely to be PRs.

Nah, framing discussions are legit. But I don't think killing Galz to frame faust is super duper likely, the other way seems more likely.

[iguanaiguana]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

What about killing Galz to frame Faust?

WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.

Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight

12 hours after thread unlocked. Not exactly immediately after day opened. You seem to be stretching.

[pingpongsam]

It was really just a narrated, reread analysis of the Clemens wagon and surrounding behaviors that just so happened to look a lot like scum faust and probscum datswan in retrospect. I didn’t actually do any work on it until I had a result on Space and also had seen the NK result.

I think you guys were just more shocked that I did something overtly rational for a change.

[Swowl]

OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.

This is another reason that I said DatSwan doesn't always seem to read closely.

 My inference is completely justified. He said he targeted Cuzz and opened the day with voting for Cuzz. How would you decipher that information? You made a grammatical error that in turn had me miss that you included yourself on the claims list. I am not missing anything here, I stand right by it.

[Swowl]

Reads!

Mcmc still seems like obvtown, or else he's just mimicking his town meta perfectly.

I read all the quasi claimants--TWM, pps, and iguana (wait, iguana's thing is some weird townslip claim from the beginning, right? I guess it no longer seems quite as significantly mitigating but oh well for now)--as town.

Space is definitely town, sure.

I'm going back and forth on LaLight.

Faust and DS seem scummy. Teproc seems waaaaaay scummy. I've never seen town Teproc lurk this much, hang out in the background. He's usually a commanding town presence.

Am I missing anyone? Guess not. I'd lynch faust for sure, probably DS, Teproc, or LaLight.

Why is it that I am skummy exactly?

[Swowl]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

What about killing Galz to frame Faust?

WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.

except that Galz like -never- gets lynched. what would super make sense is if TeamSkum consisted of individuals NOT including both Faust or Galz, leaving them both alive. How would we not target one the next day?

[Swowl]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

What about killing Galz to frame Faust?

WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.

Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight

wait? why is this skummy? I do that all the time as town. I mean I have never like posted it, but if you are town at night what else do you have to do other than re-read based on the lynch flip? skum has a whole freeking channel to talk in? why is it more likely for a pre type to be skummy as opposed to it being a town player posting their insights from a night time re read?

[Swowl]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

To repeat myself - I absolutely, every time I have been skum, have pushed to kill Galz every single night he has been a potential target.
There is also like no scenario in which Skum kills Galz to set me up that I can think of.
Personally, I do not think that in this size of a game, Skum made a decision at all on the NK with intention of setting up a specific individual for today. Galz had little-to-zero interaction yesterday, they would be literally making the decision based on outside meta shit (i.e. twin claim, or "faust is alive therefore must be skum").
I think the reason that Galz was targeted is that:
a) he is an insanely strong Town Player
b) he has a slight tell in the sense that when he has a PR as Town he tends to not talk as much

[iguanaiguana]

OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.

This is another reason that I said DatSwan doesn't always seem to read closely.

 My inference is completely justified. He said he targeted Cuzz and opened the day with voting for Cuzz. How would you decipher that information? You made a grammatical error that in turn had me miss that you included yourself on the claims list. I am not missing anything here, I stand right by it.

I mean, I get the inference,  but I think it was wrong. And I think there is plenty of evidence to see that inference was wrong by now if you read carefully.

[Swowl]

https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s

i have called you son, i've made amends
between, father and son

or if you haven't one, rest in my arms
sleep in my bed
there's a design
to what i did and said, rest in my arms [...]

Galzria has died in the night! he was vito, a town even-night watcher

I am 100% positive he originally flipped as 2-shot. schadd has since editted this.

yeah

I am confused by this, and it needs to be clarified. Schadd, are you acknowledging that the flip was changed--you posted it wrong and then fixed it?

Funny the guy that doesn't read closely is the one that caught this bit....

[iguanaiguana]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

What about killing Galz to frame Faust?

WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.

Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight

wait? why is this skummy? I do that all the time as town. I mean I have never like posted it, but if you are town at night what else do you have to do other than re-read based on the lynch flip? skum has a whole freeking channel to talk in? why is it more likely for a pre type to be skummy as opposed to it being a town player posting their insights from a night time re read?

Because his case wasn't based on the lynch flip only, it was also heavily based on the Night Kill.

[Swowl]

OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.

This is another reason that I said DatSwan doesn't always seem to read closely.

 My inference is completely justified. He said he targeted Cuzz and opened the day with voting for Cuzz. How would you decipher that information? You made a grammatical error that in turn had me miss that you included yourself on the claims list. I am not missing anything here, I stand right by it.

I mean, I get the inference,  but I think it was wrong. And I think there is plenty of evidence to see that inference was wrong by now if you read carefully.

So I get the posts, or at least some (in fairness, I cannot guarantee I am not in fact still missing something) that you would be referring to.
But it comes back to the core concept of the whole thing: If he has no result then he has no information to share. So, as a Town PR you just what... out yourself D2 before you have the ability to divulge any information about your actions?

[Swowl]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.

What about killing Galz to frame Faust?

WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.

Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight

wait? why is this skummy? I do that all the time as town. I mean I have never like posted it, but if you are town at night what else do you have to do other than re-read based on the lynch flip? skum has a whole freeking channel to talk in? why is it more likely for a pre type to be skummy as opposed to it being a town player posting their insights from a night time re read?

Because his case wasn't based on the lynch flip only, it was also heavily based on the Night Kill.

That is an absolutely fair point.
However, it was several hours after flip that PPS posted the vote count post and then 45 mins after that he wrote up the "what it means post".

IDK I am not saying that I currently have a strong opinion on a PPS lynch, just more that I think this evidence is lazy.