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[LaLight]

*you

[Eevee]

did you have some reason to believe he was scum?

[LaLight]

did you have some reason to believe he was scum?

well, I opened the game and saw the flip

[Teproc]

Maybe both factions targeted faust.

So how do we know it was a secret vote and that shadd wasn't simply hated? Because it "takes 8 to lynch"?

Hated was my assumption as well. I missed schadd's self-hammer post. I don't know how much I believe it... really why would he do it ? These super early wagons happen, they often fizzle out because people freak out.

There's no way Mike is a good guy. Even Mike wouldn't say that. Especially him, actually. That's the difference between him and Heisenberg, he doesn't fool himself into believing he's a good guy.

It seems clear that there are two non-town factions (there's at least a Gus Fring out there that's Los Pollos Hermanos-aligned, presumably)... it's possible that Mike was the only way for that faction to get a NK ?

[Witherweaver]

I assumed hated.

[Witherweaver]

Also Unvote.

[pingpongsam]

vote: gkrieg13

?

Trying to grab a towncred for lynching scum who as well may not be in your team, trying to open wagon on me and the question if I know for sure or base on flavor seemed insincere

The first two were a joke, I don't think my wagon on schadd should give me any credit, considering it was total RVS.  Then getting the wagon going on you was also a joke, because of the joke that it worked the first time.

The second one is because I feel like I missed something.  Do you know that there are only three factions in the game?  Do you know anything about their sizes? 

I mean really the only thing we can get from that schadd wagon is that scum were probably fine getting on it, and they are also probably the ones casting the secret vote (I don't think schadd would give that away for his teammate, or else his teammate would be very mad), so ash is a little bit scummy for looking for a quicklynch.

vote: ash

Wow, what a conclusion jump. First of all why must there be an extra vote? Second, why does ash have the be the one just because he went last? If there is an extra vote it could be from any one on or apparently off wagon. This seems overly presumptuous if not preplanned.

[ashersky]

gkrieg jumping to extra vote when most others jumped to hated (and we even got a hated claim) is interesting.  Anyone else make that conclusion?

I guess LL pointed out the self vote post? 

[Teproc]

ash wanting to put someone at L-1 in this situation is alignment-neutral. town!ash would do it because he thinks it's pro-town, and scum!ash would do it to look like town!ash.

[iguanaiguana]

gkrieg jumping to extra vote when most others jumped to hated (and we even got a hated claim) is interesting.  Anyone else make that conclusion?

I guess LL pointed out the self vote post?

I was not thinking Mike Erhmentrout to be hated because like R said he is a badass.

[Witherweaver]

It makes thematic sense. He was in the crosshairs of the DEA and of Walter White at the end.

[ashersky]

I’m having internet problems, lost a post already.  So this will be one post with many points.

1.  I still know no flavor, so more rather than less explanation will help me.  What does Walter White mean for us?  Like, I know he’s the main guy, but nothing else.  What are the chicken brothers?  Etc.

2.  I think if we can we should unhate Eevee.  Known hated players can mean early hammers and unknown Lylos and such, given we don’t know scum numbers.

3.  I ran through the possibilities for the early day end overnight as well.  Basically came down to what’s been mentioned, plus one.  There is Hated (known, hidden, or applied), Secret Vote or Double Vote (hidden only), or a Hammerer-style Role.

So I think, though I am not sure, that schadd might have said something about being hated if he was Town, and probably as any faction.  That he didn’t says to me that Hated is slightly less likely — you think he would have waved his arms around to stop the voting.  Then again, maybe he hides the info?  Dunno.

He could have been Hated but not known it.  I think that runs too close to bastard if it was built into his role; could be a scum power on N0 (does anyone know if actions could be taken N0?) or flavor related (although Igu says no?).

Given the vote numbers, then, an extra vote is also possible.  I just used that in The Flash, but it was public.  Secret/hidden vs. double is probably unimportant to this discussion.

There’s a role where a player’s vote is an auto hammer, although it’s usually public.  That could exist in modified form here.  If it does, I’d assume it was a player who hasn’t voted or maybe even posted.  A town one should claim.

Whatever it is, votes should be more carefully cast.

Also, I specifically asked the mod if my vote was the hammer.  He would not answer.

[Roadrunner7671]

The only person who really liked Mike was his granddaughter, so I could see him being hated. Although that was towards the end, so I would've expected something more like 'you become hated after Day X'

[iguanaiguana]

I liked Mike.

Ash, maybe just Wikipedia breaking bad? It's a fairly complex show. And that seems to matter.

[Teproc]

I’m having internet problems, lost a post already.  So this will be one post with many points.

1.  I still know no flavor, so more rather than less explanation will help me.  What does Walter White mean for us?  Like, I know he’s the main guy, but nothing else.  What are the chicken brothers?  Etc.

Walter White probably had a lot of powers (some sort of an Inventor seems possible), but he also very likely would have become a liability at some point: namely by changing alignment, presumably becoming a SK under certain conditions (or maybe just after a certain day). It's probably bad for him to die so early, but not awful overall I think.

There are apparently two scum factions here. One of them being Los Pollos Hermanos (the chicken brothers): that's a fast-food chain that's a front for a druglord (Gus Fring, with Mike Ehrmantraut - schadd - being a hitman/cleaner under his employment).

Then there's the Juarez Cartel, which is, well a cartel. They deal with Los Pollos Hermanos, but not-so-secretly hate each other, and throughout the show they essentially go to war with each other.

I agree Mike seems unlikely to be hated in the flavor. Secret vote makes more sense, one way or another.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Who didn't even post D1?

I didn't

[Eevee]

Flavor does seem to matter here.

I can get cured of being being hated by being targeted by Skyler White. Revealing this information might be dangerous, but so would be being double-hated tomorrow, so I guess I'll just risk it.

[Teproc]

Btw, Gus Fring (ie schadd's partner) having a secret vote makes a lot of flavor sense. Mike having one ? Not so much... but it could be QT-controlled by the faction as a whole I guess. Still don't know why schadd would want to self-hammer though.

[iguanaiguana]

I don't see this series of posts from Eevee coming from scum.

[Teproc]

Flavor does seem to matter here.

I can get cured of being being hated by being targeted by Skyler White. Revealing this information might be dangerous, but so would be being double-hated tomorrow, so I guess I'll just risk it.

Interesting. I don't actually know which flavor this means for you... which I guess is a good thing ?

[Eevee]

Flavor does seem to matter here.

I can get cured of being being hated by being targeted by Skyler White. Revealing this information might be dangerous, but so would be being double-hated tomorrow, so I guess I'll just risk it.

Interesting. I don't actually know which flavor this means for you... which I guess is a good thing ?

Yep, that seems like a good thing, just in case scum gets some bonus for knowing flavor roles somehow. Probably better if people don't guess, I don't see an upside.

[ashersky]

I liked Mike.

Ash, maybe just Wikipedia breaking bad? It's a fairly complex show. And that seems to matter.

I can, but I’m interested in opinions about the show’s flavor as it might pertain to a mafia game.  Teproc’s Post was great for that.

I don't see this series of posts from Eevee coming from scum.

I agree with this at this point.

[ashersky]

Btw, Gus Fring (ie schadd's partner) having a secret vote makes a lot of flavor sense. Mike having one ? Not so much... but it could be QT-controlled by the faction as a whole I guess. Still don't know why schadd would want to self-hammer though.

Or why schadd’s partner would hammer.

[gkrieg13]

vote: gkrieg13

?

Trying to grab a towncred for lynching scum who as well may not be in your team, trying to open wagon on me and the question if I know for sure or base on flavor seemed insincere

The first two were a joke, I don't think my wagon on schadd should give me any credit, considering it was total RVS.  Then getting the wagon going on you was also a joke, because of the joke that it worked the first time.

The second one is because I feel like I missed something.  Do you know that there are only three factions in the game?  Do you know anything about their sizes? 

I mean really the only thing we can get from that schadd wagon is that scum were probably fine getting on it, and they are also probably the ones casting the secret vote (I don't think schadd would give that away for his teammate, or else his teammate would be very mad), so ash is a little bit scummy for looking for a quicklynch.

vote: ash

Wow, what a conclusion jump. First of all why must there be an extra vote? Second, why does ash have the be the one just because he went last? If there is an extra vote it could be from any one on or apparently off wagon. This seems overly presumptuous if not preplanned.

I mean we have less than a page to go off of, so whatever conclusion I had would've been jumped to.

[pingpongsam]

vote: gkrieg13

?

Trying to grab a towncred for lynching scum who as well may not be in your team, trying to open wagon on me and the question if I know for sure or base on flavor seemed insincere

The first two were a joke, I don't think my wagon on schadd should give me any credit, considering it was total RVS.  Then getting the wagon going on you was also a joke, because of the joke that it worked the first time.

The second one is because I feel like I missed something.  Do you know that there are only three factions in the game?  Do you know anything about their sizes? 

I mean really the only thing we can get from that schadd wagon is that scum were probably fine getting on it, and they are also probably the ones casting the secret vote (I don't think schadd would give that away for his teammate, or else his teammate would be very mad), so ash is a little bit scummy for looking for a quicklynch.

vote: ash

Wow, what a conclusion jump. First of all why must there be an extra vote? Second, why does ash have the be the one just because he went last? If there is an extra vote it could be from any one on or apparently off wagon. This seems overly presumptuous if not preplanned.

I mean we have less than a page to go off of, so whatever conclusion I had would've been jumped to.

Of course, why should we discuss the possibilities when we can act with certainty and implicate people outright based on this certainty?