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[Swowl]

Beating a dead horse here, but just for thought....

Galz says his role is dependent on water (i.e. he has a clock on him). Fine I get that. However, there is water in the game. Which item he bid for or not for or whatever aside, if he has the ability to take all items from players as they die with them... so utility here from a Town perspective is he can 1) take good items from unfortunate town deaths so they can still be used for good, take bad items from Town deaths thus - which is good, or null at least, because he is clocked anyways, 3) Removes powerful skum items from play, or at least gives them to Town, annndddd Skum would think they are out of game.

Personally I think it is a Fakeclaim altogether, but if Galz is telling the truth.... I just don't see him thinking the likelihood of his max utility being higher for Town in trying for Station 1 with the 10th pick. Yeah yeah doc not popular, but that Funding thing takes any freekin 1 shot and makes it re usable. There is no way that lasts to pick 10. Also, the doc role has wayyyy more skum utility as opposed to town imo.


I have talked this to death. Going to do some peaceful re - reading on my day off here and let others discuss what they will.

Oh right! On a completely different note - the Popsicle in the room... Am I to understand that this means Ash will be in this state through today and they will be unfrozen starting Night 2 (as in they were frozen Night 1 and Day 1 for the cycle) or did the cycle start Day 2 and will run through Night 2? Also, can the person just like double freeze him tonight to make sure he dies or is that not how it works?

[silverspawn]

Good point, it's a bad fake claim...

[Swowl]

Also, I think we made a mistake. If all skum gets the fake claim info they could of easily manipulated the RMM:Bid claim portion. I don't think it is that relevant, but it kind of messes with the "I can't find a downside" logic someone brought up (I mean I agreed with it at the time, so no offense intended), but if skum is feeding false info that could actually create a downside.

[iguanaiguana]

Beating a dead horse here, but just for thought....

Galz says his role is dependent on water (i.e. he has a clock on him). Fine I get that. However, there is water in the game. Which item he bid for or not for or whatever aside, if he has the ability to take all items from players as they die with them... so utility here from a Town perspective is he can 1) take good items from unfortunate town deaths so they can still be used for good, take bad items from Town deaths thus - which is good, or null at least, because he is clocked anyways, 3) Removes powerful skum items from play, or at least gives them to Town, annndddd Skum would think they are out of game.

Personally I think it is a Fakeclaim altogether, but if Galz is telling the truth.... I just don't see him thinking the likelihood of his max utility being higher for Town in trying for Station 1 with the 10th pick. Yeah yeah doc not popular, but that Funding thing takes any freekin 1 shot and makes it re usable. There is no way that lasts to pick 10. Also, the doc role has wayyyy more skum utility as opposed to town imo.


I have talked this to death. Going to do some peaceful re - reading on my day off here and let others discuss what they will.

Oh right! On a completely different note - the Popsicle in the room... Am I to understand that this means Ash will be in this state through today and they will be unfrozen starting Night 2 (as in they were frozen Night 1 and Day 1 for the cycle) or did the cycle start Day 2 and will run through Night 2? Also, can the person just like double freeze him tonight to make sure he dies or is that not how it works?

I think Ash is just gunna die on D3 unless someone can unfreeze him.

I agree that Galz' claim is scummy, his reasoning for going for the babysitting item is bad, and his reasoning for claiming draft 1 is also really bad and that makes it scummy. Also, 1-shot bulletproof is like the classic scum fakeclaim because there is no way to verify it.

[gkrieg13]

I promise to reread soon.  Things are just piling up and I'm getting to them in the order that they affect my real life, so this is sorta down there on the list.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'd rather not have everyone claim games. We may be able to use the game we bid on to challenge a claim and this discussion is seriously derailing scum hunting. Galz said he needed order claimed to make his full claim. So let everyone claim that who is willing and let's stop there for now.

Yes, using the hidden information to challenge the claimed information was exactly what I was thinking. We're too late for it now by miles, because too many people have "helpfully" claimed their game as well. I think there's a strong incentive for scum who've decided to claim their actual slots or team-mates' slots (i.e. slots where they know exactly the right answer to the RMM-number challenge) to jump on the chance to offer up un-asked-for-evidence in a bid for townpoints, so I think noting who said what when is not actually a bad way of scum-hunting now.

[SpaceAnemone]

There's still a reasonable chance that both Swan and Galz are town. However, if we end up thinking it's truly 1v1, I find myself leaning slightly more towards team town!Swan than team town!Galz. For one thing, I don't quite feel like town!Swan would chose to pick a fight with Galz, knowing how well Galz plays.

[Haddock]

There's still a reasonable chance that both Swan and Galz are town. However, if we end up thinking it's truly 1v1, I find myself leaning slightly more towards team town!Swan than team town!Galz. For one thing, I don't quite feel like town!Swan would chose to pick a fight with Galz, knowing how well Galz plays.

Um.  There's a mistake here somewhere.  Try again?

[SpaceAnemone]

There's still a reasonable chance that both Swan and Galz are town. However, if we end up thinking it's truly 1v1, I find myself leaning slightly more towards team town!Swan than team town!Galz. For one thing, I don't quite feel like town!Swan would chose to pick a fight with Galz, knowing how well Galz plays.

Um.  There's a mistake here somewhere.  Try again?

Ha, you're right. I meant that I don't think scum!Swan would choose to pick a fight with Galz, so I feel that Swan is likely to be a townie who's been forced into it.

[Haddock]

Question for people more experienced than me:

"I think they're both town" is traditionally seen as something of a scummy play; how often has this actually been the case in people's experience?

[silverspawn]

I assume by 'this' you mean that scum has said the above, and not that it was actually a t v t fight?

[Haddock]

By "this" I mean "someone has said 'you called it a town v town fight, you are scummy and then the person who called it a town v town fight was actually scum.

[Witherweaver]

Question for people more experienced than me:

"I think they're both town" is traditionally seen as something of a scummy play; how often has this actually been the case in people's experience?

I did it once in my first or second scum game.

[EFHW]

I'd rather not have everyone claim games. We may be able to use the game we bid on to challenge a claim and this discussion is seriously derailing scum hunting. Galz said he needed order claimed to make his full claim. So let everyone claim that who is willing and let's stop there for now.

Yes, using the hidden information to challenge the claimed information was exactly what I was thinking. We're too late for it now by miles, because too many people have "helpfully" claimed their game as well. I think there's a strong incentive for scum who've decided to claim their actual slots or team-mates' slots (i.e. slots where they know exactly the right answer to the RMM-number challenge) to jump on the chance to offer up un-asked-for-evidence in a bid for townpoints, so I think noting who said what when is not actually a bad way of scum-hunting now.

You're still talking about claiming/not claiming instead of scum-hunting.

[EFHW]

I looked at ash's thing about silver. He says that silver suggesting e tell pps who to shoot (ash himself made a very similar suggestion) and also underlining that the stick would have to be broken are contradictory. I think he is implying that scum!silver with scum!pps partner momentarily thought of the stick as useable= scumslip.

I think this is a non starter re: silver. Ash wrote it pre-flip, and it only works as a scumslip if pps and silver were on the same scum team.

If I got it wrong, and ashersky ever thaws, he can set me straight.

[EFHW]

re: Galzria and DatSwan, I don't think galz's role is as boring as he does, but the complexity of his tactics here seem too risky as a scum plot. It would be so easy to get a detail wrong. DatSwan's outrage seemed towny to me.

[Swowl]

So... Galz... You are saying that you thought that your play so far, or lack thereof (in regards to your normal content), has been in the interest of Town? You think that your fake claim leading to nothing but chaos (and you damn well knew that it would) was pro town? You are being truthful about your current bid order? You are being truthful about not receiving your item from a Station 1 bid as Pick 10? And you are claiming that you got the sword stick (given role PR) upon PPS death and it broke... as you are town.

All of that is correct?

Still haven't gotten an answer to this so I am going to summarize it down in case it came off as snarky or something... Considering you already did a full claim I would like an answer when you have a chance. I know you are not normally big on that, but if you are town I am seriously trying to find a way to believe you here so help me out...

True/False on the below:

1) You are Town. Like Town. Not kind of Town and not "not Skum". Town.

2) You were Draft Position #10

3) You Bid for Station 1, and did not get an item.

4) Because of your PR(s), you received the Sword Stick from PPS upon his death and it broke upon becoming into your possession so it is (to the best of your knowledge at least) removed from the game.

5) Obv don't answer with the like actual number (this one wasn't in the original questions) - Barring outside elements (lynch, NK, being turned into a freekin Popsicle, etc...), are you currently aware of how long you have to live in the game if your death came from specifically "water depletion".. or whatever the correct term is? (not a true false question).

[iguanaiguana]

Another suspicious thing RE: Galz is that he pushed us to lynch APPS yesterday for the short day but today if anything he's been pretty much stalling.

[Witherweaver]

Oh yeah, he claimed a short day yesterday was better.. did that become clear with his claim?

[Awaclus]

Oh yeah, he claimed a short day yesterday was better.. did that become clear with his claim?

Yes, he loses more water if the day is long. What remains a mystery is why it's fine for today to be long.

[faust]

I really can't go one day without something weird happening to me can I.

Vote Count 2.3

Haddock (3): iguanaiguana, EFHW, Witherweaver
iguanaiguana (1): schadd
DatSwan (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Galzria (1): DatSwan
Witherweaver (1): chairs

Not Voting (8): ashersky, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., JaketheBaseballGod22, Dylan32, silverspawn, Galzria

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 2 ends November 25 at 6:30 am forum time.

[silverspawn]

By "this" I mean "someone has said 'you called it a town v town fight, you are scummy and then the person who called it a town v town fight was actually scum.

Then, basically, no. Unless that person is very new, I don't think it's a scum tell.

... I dodged the literal question there because I don't have a concrete recollection of that particular fact.

[iguanaiguana]

By "this" I mean "someone has said 'you called it a town v town fight, you are scummy and then the person who called it a town v town fight was actually scum.

Then, basically, no. Unless that person is very new, I don't think it's a scum tell.

... I dodged the literal question there because I don't have a concrete recollection of that particular fact.

The only thing I can remember is multiple times when I was scum and ended up in some awkward fight with a townie and then other people called the fight town v. town.

[iguanaiguana]

Deadline is on Saturday, and this is Thanksgiving week for Americans. I will have significantly less time to play starting on Thursday morning through to the deadline.

[iguanaiguana]

I'd rather not have everyone claim games. We may be able to use the game we bid on to challenge a claim and this discussion is seriously derailing scum hunting. Galz said he needed order claimed to make his full claim. So let everyone claim that who is willing and let's stop there for now.

Yes, using the hidden information to challenge the claimed information was exactly what I was thinking. We're too late for it now by miles, because too many people have "helpfully" claimed their game as well. I think there's a strong incentive for scum who've decided to claim their actual slots or team-mates' slots (i.e. slots where they know exactly the right answer to the RMM-number challenge) to jump on the chance to offer up un-asked-for-evidence in a bid for townpoints, so I think noting who said what when is not actually a bad way of scum-hunting now.

"un-asked-for-evidence" is misleading.

Hmm.. should we claim what game we bid on for draft order also?

Might as well.

I bid on Dice mafia.

WW proposed that we bid on games, and e gave the go ahead to do it. Before that, multiple people had said that e should determine what we claim, and in what order. After that, several people claimed games. Again, I did so specifically not to derail the game. I still strongly believe that just giving up all info about draft order and games is the best course of action. The benefits have already been explained:

1) If scum tries to lie today, we may eventually catch them in a lie, or even catch them in a lie today.
2) If two people bid for the same game, then we know they are probably not both scum of the same faction, so it helps with PoE.

As for downsides:
1) It would be difficult, risky, and low benefit for scum to try to lie about what game they bid on, but only if everyone claims their game before dying.
2) The information that they get from knowing everyone's bids also seems to be negligible benefit for them.

Note that the benefit of claiming our games is actually strongest today, while everyone (except PPS, who doesn't matter for this becuase of his high bid, and Ash) can give their info.

If we lynch a scum player today who bid on the same game as a townie before they claim their game, then we could have cleared that townie from being the same faction scum and we would have failed to do so.

So it is just as easy to turn your argument around and say that the scummy players are those who are refusing to claim their games.