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Author Topic: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies  (Read 118055 times)

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faust

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #350 on: May 06, 2023, 04:43:19 am »
+3

Way of the Frog before a Journey turn doesn't work at all.

First there's the straightforward fact that you don't discard and hence topdeck it before your Journey turn, that's just the the normal don't-discard drawback of Journey.

But then, after your Journey turn, when discarding, you don't topdeck it either! Because it says "When you discard this from play this turn" and that never happens.

Hunh. Now I'm wondering why the wording "this turn" was used there
Probably because of weird issues when you throne a Duration and play it regularly first and as WotF second.
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jomini

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #351 on: June 13, 2023, 09:35:37 pm »
+3

An anti-synergy within the Loot pile: Sword makes Puzzle Box's ability a lot less useful.

Exactly the opposite many times. Puzzle box is vastly better when your opponent has Sword because you can topdeck Shield (or Moat or any of the dozens of other Sword counters should they be in the kingdom). Being able to top deck the appropriate reaction (be it Shield or Wt) is much more clutch when dealing with painful discarding attacks.

Abundance plays really poorly with Night gainers like Vampire
Works wonderfully with Cobbler. Gain and play, buy an action, get the coins. It makes a good target to gain with Dw. Changeling has downright synergy (buy a useless $3 to activate a few Abundances, gain an action to activate, return it for a Changeling, use that next turn for another abundance). Even Vamp is not that bad as any viable $3 (e.g. Village or Moat equivalents) can be paired up with a complementary $5 gain. And, of course, +buys are exceedingly handy on Vamp boards if you want to keep gaining through the late game. I mean, yes, you cannot stack them for later but in Vamp games you rarely need to stack them and instead should be using them as renewable Stockpiles.

NMF:
Quote
Inherited Royal Blacksmith - People don't buy this early for a reason. Watch out for misclicks.
No this is obnoxiously good. You just elect not to play it until you have some better cards, Literally completely 100% better than estate outside of the universal exceptions (e.g. Baron/Estate). The real bum option is Inherited Castles. Small castle brings your average card to $0.8 wonderful. Crumbling castle is NOT gained so you neither gain the silver (so your average cards is still $0.7) nor the VP point (so it literally starts at the same value as the estate it replaced).

Quote
Patient Swamp Shacks - Can actually be extremely useful with Prepare or Journey. But nothing to make you curse your deck order like seeing the option to play a dead card for little effect next turn.
Any sort of duration setup is quite useful as well. And even a Patient ruined village can be quite nice from time to time. I have done quite well with Astrolabes, for instance. Changeling has the same constraints with the added detriment that delayed play trashes the card for nothing barring the outs and can always be played during the Night if you can set it aside during cleanup.

Quote
Tireless Hireling etc.- Tireless can be meaningless. I really wanted to think of an anti-synergy - a card you want evenly spaced in your deck rather than clumped together (e.g. Throne Room and King's Court). But there's a lot of ways those cards benefit too. So useless Tireless it is.
I would suggest Shepherd. With a green deck, the end up clumped, not in your hand. Going with one or two to avoid clumping can be helpful, but only if you have green in hand when you draw it.


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NoMoreFun

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #352 on: June 23, 2023, 04:33:37 am »
+3

The money that you get for trashing cards after playing a Priest won't yet apply if you use Sewers to trash a card after the first with Priest.

There's lots of ways Priest and Sewers can work well together regardless it's just irritating to think cards have a certain interaction that they don't.
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Ethan

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #353 on: August 25, 2023, 12:49:59 am »
+7

About the worst Trait, just found Hasty Treasure Map. :-\
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GendoIkari

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #354 on: August 25, 2023, 09:46:50 am »
+1

About the worst Trait, just found Hasty Treasure Map. :-\

There’s a few ways you can still pull it off, but they require specific other things to be in the Kingdom, like Watchtower.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #355 on: August 28, 2023, 08:24:16 pm »
+2

About the worst Trait, just found Hasty Treasure Map. :-\

There’s a few ways you can still pull it off, but they require specific other things to be in the Kingdom, like Watchtower.
Transport a Treasure Map into Exile, then onto your deck. Then Summon buy a 2nd Treasure Map (forgetting that Hasty does the Summon thing already).
« Last Edit: August 28, 2023, 08:28:18 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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mxdata

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #356 on: August 29, 2023, 11:44:56 pm »
+2

About the worst Trait, just found Hasty Treasure Map. :-\

There’s a few ways you can still pull it off, but they require specific other things to be in the Kingdom, like Watchtower.

Most Ways would work too
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #357 on: September 09, 2023, 06:22:17 am »
0

Prepare sets aside your whole remaining hand, including Night cards, which are then discarded during your next turn.

About the worst Trait, just found Hasty Treasure Map. :-\

I think that's worth editing the post over.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #358 on: September 09, 2023, 06:35:42 am »
0

The real bum option is Inherited Castles. Small castle brings your average card to $0.8 wonderful. Crumbling castle is NOT gained so you neither gain the silver (so your average cards is still $0.7) nor the VP point (so it literally starts at the same value as the estate it replaced).

Quote
Changeling has the same constraints with the added detriment that delayed play trashes the card for nothing barring the outs and can always be played during the Night if you can set it aside during cleanup.

Traits only apply to Actions and Treasure piles. The Castle pile is Victory/Castle so you can't apply Traits to them, and Changeling is a pure Night Card.

Quote
Tireless Hireling etc.- Tireless can be meaningless. I really wanted to think of an anti-synergy - a card you want evenly spaced in your deck rather than clumped together (e.g. Throne Room and King's Court). But there's a lot of ways those cards benefit too. So useless Tireless it is.
I would suggest Shepherd. With a green deck, the end up clumped, not in your hand. Going with one or two to avoid clumping can be helpful, but only if you have green in hand when you draw it.
[/quote]

Makes sense and even 2 Shepherds is pretty risky. But buying a single Tireless Shepherd once you've started greening seems like a pretty good bet for deck consistency? That's why I struggled with Tireless - when clumping seems like a bad thing, you can still kind of play around it.
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mxdata

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #359 on: April 09, 2024, 10:14:26 pm »
+2

Shaman makes Necromancer pretty much useless. The Zombies leave the Trash in the opening, and if you use Zombie Apprentice, your opponent gets to gain what you trashed (barring things like extra turns or playing it at the start of your turn, e.g., with Contract or Royal Galley). Zombie Mason, too, becomes riskier since, if you trash something good, your opponent will also get to have it (of course, if you trash something like an Estate or Copper it's still good)
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Tiago

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #360 on: April 16, 2024, 04:47:27 pm »
+1

Sea Hag + Locusts

You give them a Curse onto their deck... which you then immediately trash for them.

mxdata

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #361 on: August 13, 2024, 05:49:47 pm »
+3

Aristocrat could be chosen as Way of the Mouse, but it would do absolutely nothing in that case, since you'd have 0 in play
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GendoIkari

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #362 on: August 13, 2024, 06:00:18 pm »
+1

Aristocrat could be chosen as Way of the Mouse, but it would do absolutely nothing in that case, since you'd have 0 in play

Also if played by Inheritance or Band of Misfits or Overlord.
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mxdata

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #363 on: August 13, 2024, 06:18:11 pm »
+3

Aristocrat could be chosen as Way of the Mouse, but it would do absolutely nothing in that case, since you'd have 0 in play

Also if played by Inheritance or Band of Misfits or Overlord.

True, but in those cases it's possible to have had one or more Aristocrats already in play, but with Way of the Mouse it's impossible for that to happen
« Last Edit: August 14, 2024, 02:52:01 pm by mxdata »
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Snorka

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #364 on: August 16, 2024, 01:45:51 am »
+3

I’m the hiphopopotamus, my lyrics are bottomless, I tried to Swap a Necropolis… it doesn’t work that way.
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mxdata

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #365 on: August 16, 2024, 02:02:08 am »
+2

Harsh Winter + Fawning = +4 debt on every other Province Gain ... or +2 debt on every Province Gain if one of the Fawning cards had been gained separately after Harsh Winter was activated
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mxdata

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #366 on: September 03, 2024, 02:28:46 am »
+3

Two points ahead, with enough coins and buys to pile out. Unfortunately, I failed to keep in mind that Growth was active and my opponent had a Search in play. Which means that when I emptied one pile, my opponent gained a Loot, costing $7, which allowed them to get a Duchy, putting them one point ahead

Oops
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #367 on: September 06, 2024, 10:48:17 am »
+2

Progress' topdecking is mandatory, including when you gain a card to your hand. Just ran into a game with Progress and Transmogrify
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MatthewTaranto

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #368 on: September 26, 2024, 06:01:30 pm »
0

Artisan and Rapid Expansion (Prophecy) -- what happens when I play Artisan here? Does the card go to my hand or get set aside?

And more broadly speaking, what gets priority when two cards contradict each other in this kind of way?
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Tiago

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #369 on: September 26, 2024, 07:22:02 pm »
+2

Artisan and Rapid Expansion (Prophecy) -- what happens when I play Artisan here? Does the card go to my hand or get set aside?

And more broadly speaking, what gets priority when two cards contradict each other in this kind of way?

Artisan says "gain a card to your hand." Rapid Expansion says "When you gain a card, set it aside." The card never goes to your discard pile, it goes straight to your hand, and then gets set aside.

There's 3 ways to put gained cards places: gaining it directly to that place, like Artisan ("gain a card to your hand", "gain a card, setting it aside"), an ability that moves the card, like RE ("when you gain a card, put it onto your deck"), or move the card after gaining it, like Summon ("Gain a card. Set it aside.")

Gaining directly to the place happens first, then something like RE can try to move it - if 2 things are trying to move it, you choose the order, and the second one fails. Then something like Summon happens, and it will fail if the card has already moved.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #370 on: September 26, 2024, 07:43:20 pm »
+1

Artisan and Rapid Expansion (Prophecy) -- what happens when I play Artisan here? Does the card go to my hand or get set aside?

And more broadly speaking, what gets priority when two cards contradict each other in this kind of way?

It goes to your hand and then immediately gets set aside. The cards don't contradict each other; Artisan simply gains a card to your hand, and then Rapid Expansion sees that you gained a card so it sets it aside.

Broadly speaking, cards do exactly what they say; "when" effects happen after the thing they're triggered by (but before finishing the rest of the instructions of whatever made it trigger); multiple effects that try to happen at the same time (which Artisan and Rapid Expansion are not, as per the previous point) happen in any order decided by the player whose turn it is; the Stop-Moving rule prevents cards from being moved in some situations; and any time a card tries to do a thing that is impossible to do, that instruction is skipped and you continue following the instructions from the next thing that is possible to do.

There is also a dedicated subforum for rules questions which is a more appropriate place to ask rules questions in.
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MatthewTaranto

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #371 on: September 26, 2024, 09:36:19 pm »
0

Thanks for the thorough replies! Makes sense when broken down like that. I'll keep rules questions in the right subforum next time.
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