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[The_Wine_Merchant]

Glad to still be with you gents.

(Questions I'm thinking without time to think right now and go back and read) So how likely do people think it is that scum was bussing that lynch? Could scum have been among those who declared intent to hammer and was waiting (thereby looking normal and towny) before I jumped on?  Anyone have thoughts on flipping town?

I am being more cautious of bussing after M103 where both scum were on lynch, in the 3 and 4 spots respectively, during a day 1 correct lynch. But I am thinking off wagon for now

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Especially becaus that game showed on wagon bussing day 1 doesn't really work. The bad impact to your team negates any benefit.

[2.71828.....]

Scum lynches are always great. I say we look off wagon for a lynch today. Bussing is always an option, but it often doesn't happen D1

[Awaclus]

When I read from last post to end of day I posted in my QT my thoughts. I have pasted them below.

4. Quoting of QTs is forbidden as well

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 1.final

QuickSync (1): schadd
schadd (1): 2.71828.....
The_Wine_Merchant (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (2): Cuzz, IDontPlayThisGame
IDontPlayThisGame (7): luckat, Robz888, Witherweaver, QuickSync, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone, Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): The_Wine_Merchant

Not voting (0):

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

So I am looking at schadd, mcmc, myself, Cuzz, and TWO.

I would rank them (most town to most scum):
e- obv!town
mcmc- his suspicion of TWM comes from a townie perspective.
TWM- I thought he was consistently townie D1
Cuzz- didn't get much from him D1, but I didn't pay the best attention
schadd- is being schadd

[Cuzz]

Interesting that Robz was the NK because I was talking myself into him doing a hard bus yesterday and I was still going to be suspicious of him today. Now I can look elsewhere. I have townreads on a few of the people off wagon (mcmc and schadd kinda) which means e and TWM look bad.

Oddly enough, though, e and mcmc are the ones coming right out of the gate telling us to look off wagon because there probably was no bussing. If there was no bussing I'd almost be ready to call them as the most likely scumteam just based on poe/reads, which then makes me think at least one of them is probably town because that'd be a bold move for the scumteam to immediately ask to be put into the spotlight.

But wifom and whatnot. I do think there probably was one scum on wagon though.

Also interesting that they left the IC alive.

[Cuzz]

Mcmc in first sentence of paragraph 2 above should obviously be TWM.

[2.71828.....]

Also interesting that they left the IC alive.

Robz was basically going to be IC after pushing that wagon. They were more concerned about his reads than Dylan's reads I guess. They may also have been scared by jailkeeper WIFOM. So not too incredibly interesting in my opinion

[2.71828.....]

But wifom and whatnot. I do think there probably was one scum on wagon though.

schadd, mcmc, myself, Cuzz, and TWO

luckat, Witherweaver, QuickSync, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone, Dylan32

One on/one off gives me 1/4 or 1/5 odds. I like 1/4 odds better so I want to go there.

[mcmcsalot]

But wifom and whatnot. I do think there probably was one scum on wagon though.

schadd, mcmc, myself, Cuzz, and TWO

luckat, Witherweaver, QuickSync, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone, Dylan32

One on/one off gives me 1/4 or 1/5 odds. I like 1/4 odds better so I want to go there.

Based purely on wagon movement, shcadd/2.7/twm never voted for any major wagon. I started the first wagon of the day on twm which cuzz joined, and then cuzz left twm to join the robz wagon.

[mcmcsalot]

In case anyone else is curious about how the wagons have been building up, here's a summary of all wagons that reached 5 votes so far:

Robz (4): TWM, Cuzz, WW, QS
TWM (4): mcmc, Robz, Space, Cuzz
Robz (4): WW, QS, Dylan, Cuzz
IDP (4): luckat, Robz, WW, QS

I was just noticing that QS and WW were both on Robz and then both on IDP. It would be odd for scum to work in parallel that way, though. There's surprisingly little wagon stuff to poke at this close to deadline.

Here's what I think the current voting looks like as of post #510:
QS (1): schadd
e (1): Awaclus
TWM (2): mcmc, Space
schadd (2): e, Dylan
IDP (4): luckat, Robz, WW, QS
Space (1): TWM
Robz (2): Cuzz, IDP

Helpful post from space. I had forgotten robz had a wagon of 4 before the twm wagon started. The fact that twm started the original robz wagon and then moved off it and didn't move back when dylan/cuzz brought robz up to 4 is some town cred for twm. Cuzz moved off robz on to twm and back to robz which is a little scummy, and then you've got shcadd and 2.7 avoiding everything which is kinda scummy as well. I think my help in preventing the growth of the robz wagon and starting suspicion on idp should be read as towny.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

When I read from last post to end of day I posted in my QT my thoughts. I have pasted them below.

4. Quoting of QTs is forbidden as well

Yes. I apologize. I had missed that rule. I should have written them in a PM to myself instead.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

OK:

Going back and actually looking at mcmc's and Cuzz's posts. Mcmc first.

I had forgotten about the early mcmc interaction with IDPTG. But honestly. I still don't understand it and it looks like a giant ball of misunderstanding and can't get much from it. So either scum forcing an interaction with each other and getting confused or town early voting a scum and getting confused. Null stuff here.

But the main meat of the stuff I want to talk about happen much later that I saw during my read after the lynch.

Want to lynch: Twm, IDP
Would lynch: QS, 2.7
Won't lynch: robz, Lucat, cuzz, space

mcmc says he is willing to vote for IDP. He continues voting for me though. At this point there are 3 votes on me (mcmc, space and Cuzz) and 2 on IDP (luckat and Robz). His strongest town read, Robz, is also heavily pushing for IDP and recently left my wagon.

One would expect mcmc to perhaps follow that statement with an actual vote. But does he?

No.

Instead he backs up Cuzz who was saying that there is no case on IDP, even after WW joined the wagon to make it three. mcmc's vote would have made it four. Instead he stays on my wagon.

IDP. We should lynch IDP. Everyone who doesn't want to is covering for scum, so says I.

Did you ever explain your case on idp?

Nope, nor will I, scum naysayer!

But cuzz is towny and so is making a case

If mcmc was already willing to vote for IDP, he shouldn't need a case to have further reason to vote for him.

He also had one other post in response to Awaclus.

Now, the caveat here is that the large wagon on IDP occurred when mcmc wasn't around apparently, with QS, Awaclus, Space and Dylan (hammer) voting before he shows up.

mcmc's next post is this:

Sooo did we want to see if idp wanted to claim?

Feels pouty that a player was hammered without claiming. Robz had already discussed how he was unlikely to be a PR. I don't know how Robz determined that, but as I read I was ok with the hammer without claim. Just felt like it was him disappointed that his partner didn't get an opportunity to claim and save himself.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

man this game is quiet. I think I'm still happy with my schadd vote, from below, as I am suspicious of town having that many townreads so early in the game.

i think that mcmc, twm, space, awaclus, maybe idptg, e, robz are town

you've got 7 townreads not including the IC or yourself so you are literally calling the scumteam as 3 out of the 4 of:

me, Eevee, luckat and QS

that is bold and unjustifiable at this point in the game. vote: schadd

But I also find Robz, e, luckat, Eevee, and IDPTG kinda scummy.

Can we get a vote count at some point also?

Similar post here:

Deadline is soonish and not much has been going on in this game. I think a lot of people are vla so I think everyone needs to post some reads if they haven't done so and start working towards a consensus.

My top lynch choices today are TWM, Robz, or one of the lower content players (luckat, idptg, QS)

Suspicion toward IDPTG but not at the top and no vote. Instead votes on Robz and myself two town players.

Then this post:

I also have a really strong suspicion that at least one of IDP and luckat are scum.

Where does this come from? It isn't backed up at all. Hypocritical statement coming from Cuzz given his knee jerk reaction toward me earlier.

But despite the suspicion, he casually defends IDP by saying there isn't a case.

IDP. We should lynch IDP. Everyone who doesn't want to is covering for scum, so says I.

Did you ever explain your case on idp?

Why was Cuzz already suspicious of him, if he needed a case to do so?

Frustration post:

I'm now back to thinking this might be a bastard game, since some players appear to have a post restriction which forbids them from justifying their votes.

Partner getting lynched and can't do anything about it to stop it?

Cuzz tries and explains his above statement. Good job schadd asking about it.

I also have a really strong suspicion that at least one of IDP and luckat are scum.

why's that mr. explaintown

I just think there is always scum among the lurkiest players.

But explanation is lame.

Cuzz does what I saw mcmc do, but to a higher level. State suspicion of IDPTG, but never actually probe or push for him to respond to things and never actually vote there. Instead, subtly try and undermine and get wagon going elsewhere.

vote: Cuzz

[Dylan32]

OK:

Going back and actually looking at mcmc's and Cuzz's posts. Mcmc first.

I had forgotten about the early mcmc interaction with IDPTG. But honestly. I still don't understand it and it looks like a giant ball of misunderstanding and can't get much from it. So either scum forcing an interaction with each other and getting confused or town early voting a scum and getting confused. Null stuff here.

But the main meat of the stuff I want to talk about happen much later that I saw during my read after the lynch.

Want to lynch: Twm, IDP
Would lynch: QS, 2.7
Won't lynch: robz, Lucat, cuzz, space

mcmc says he is willing to vote for IDP. He continues voting for me though. At this point there are 3 votes on me (mcmc, space and Cuzz) and 2 on IDP (luckat and Robz). His strongest town read, Robz, is also heavily pushing for IDP and recently left my wagon.

One would expect mcmc to perhaps follow that statement with an actual vote. But does he?

No.

Instead he backs up Cuzz who was saying that there is no case on IDP, even after WW joined the wagon to make it three. mcmc's vote would have made it four. Instead he stays on my wagon.

IDP. We should lynch IDP. Everyone who doesn't want to is covering for scum, so says I.

Did you ever explain your case on idp?

Nope, nor will I, scum naysayer!

But cuzz is towny and so is making a case

If mcmc was already willing to vote for IDP, he shouldn't need a case to have further reason to vote for him.

He also had one other post in response to Awaclus.

Now, the caveat here is that the large wagon on IDP occurred when mcmc wasn't around apparently, with QS, Awaclus, Space and Dylan (hammer) voting before he shows up.

mcmc's next post is this:

Sooo did we want to see if idp wanted to claim?

Feels pouty that a player was hammered without claiming. Robz had already discussed how he was unlikely to be a PR. I don't know how Robz determined that, but as I read I was ok with the hammer without claim. Just felt like it was him disappointed that his partner didn't get an opportunity to claim and save himself.

A lot of what you are saying seems like you are assuming mcmc was scum posting without thinking through his posts at all. I think town is more likely to be inconsistent with a big scum read and flipping to there is no case there than scum, because scum is more likely to pay attention to stuff they've said in the past to avoid getting caught up like that.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

A lot of what you are saying seems like you are assuming mcmc was scum posting without thinking through his posts at all. I think town is more likely to be inconsistent with a big scum read and flipping to there is no case there than scum, because scum is more likely to pay attention to stuff they've said in the past to avoid getting caught up like that.

Are you saying I am not thinking through mcmc's posts or that mcmc didn't think through his posts? I am a little confused by what your comment is saying here.

I am just trying to outline what I saw when I read through immediately after I came back from VLA and caught up to the lynch, because I didn't have the ability to actually quote at the time and am going back and doing so now.

[Awaclus]

Yes. I apologize. I had missed that rule. I should have written them in a PM to myself instead.

No, you shouldn't have done that at all. That's exactly what the rule is designed to prevent.

[Dylan32]

A lot of what you are saying seems like you are assuming mcmc was scum posting without thinking through his posts at all. I think town is more likely to be inconsistent with a big scum read and flipping to there is no case there than scum, because scum is more likely to pay attention to stuff they've said in the past to avoid getting caught up like that.

Are you saying I am not thinking through mcmc's posts or that mcmc didn't think through his posts? I am a little confused by what your comment is saying here.

I am just trying to outline what I saw when I read through immediately after I came back from VLA and caught up to the lynch, because I didn't have the ability to actually quote at the time and am going back and doing so now.

You are assuming he wasn't thinking is what I meant.  Basically, I just think scum!mcmc would have thought through before he posted a bit more and not just flipped on IDPTG, and probably wouldn't have posted in a way that sounded upset if he knew it was his partner that hadn't had a chance to claim.

[Dylan32]

And sorry for the bad phrasing. Was phone posting on the one that was confusing TWM.

[mcmcsalot]

TWM to me it sounds like you assumed I was scum and then went through my posts to see if they fit, which I think you did but I don't think it's the scummiest thing to do because it's kinda how you look for a scum narrative and see if strong of a case there is.

However I think if you examine them with more of a town light in mind there is a much better narrative there. I legitimately found you scummy(right or wrong) for my case and therefor keeping my vote on you but also supporting votes for other people I find scummy makes sense. Also I simply found idp scummy for lurking and having his vote on lukat which I thought wasn't helping anyone. So I don't get why you find it scummy that I still wanted robz to explain his case. As town I saw a townread of mine vote for a scumread of mine, then my townread was asked to explain his case and he said he wouldn't so I explained that I (a supporter of the lynch) also wanted to hear robz case.

Then finally the post about wanting us to wait I can see how that could sound like pouty scum, but like dylan said wouldn't I just not say anything instead. I feel like it's more likely as  town I just came back to see if my vote would be needed for the idp lynch and saw 3 votes within an hour, two hours away from deadline and thought that was kinda rushed.

[mcmcsalot]

As for the cuzz case I'm not sure it's super strong either. A lot of your case seems to hinge on the fact that you find it scummy of cuzz to support the idp lynch but still want the case from robz. And then you think cuzz's eventual reason for supporting the idp lynch is lame. But isn't it just weak, hence him wanting robz to make his case more clear because maybe he was still debating if he found robz or twm scummier than lurky idp. Also the specific pairing of idp and Lucat which cuzz did I think is because at the time idp and lukat had been voting for eachother all day which meant it was unlikely both were scum but possible one was scum sitting on a towny. It's actually a good point to make that it's unlikely Lucat is scum.

[Dylan32]

As for the cuzz case I'm not sure it's super strong either. A lot of your case seems to hinge on the fact that you find it scummy of cuzz to support the idp lynch but still want the case from robz. And then you think cuzz's eventual reason for supporting the idp lynch is lame. But isn't it just weak, hence him wanting robz to make his case more clear because maybe he was still debating if he found robz or twm scummier than lurky idp. Also the specific pairing of idp and Lucat which cuzz did I think is because at the time idp and lukat had been voting for eachother all day which meant it was unlikely both were scum but possible one was scum sitting on a towny. It's actually a good point to make that it's unlikely Lucat is scum.

I wasn't quite sure why, but I also thought that was likely the case when skimming EoD and the final vote count.

[gkrieg13]

ashersky replaces Awaclus

[ashersky]

Hello.  I've read nothing.

[ashersky]

Hello.  I've read nothing.

Well, I mean, I skimmed.  But I haven't really paid attention to anything.