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[pingpongsam]

Can I can just say that publicly declaring yourself the restless sheeper is a good way to avoid being shot by the other scum faction?

Just to be clear, I would insist that it is better to use my role than to not use it and you should understand that I can't use it without public declaration.

True. I guess it's just not the greatest role ever. Neither are the others in that slot.

I'm not actually sure if it's better to use the role than not, that's how bad it is.

If used correctly on a townie in good standing (especially one that can hide behind an invincible townie) I'd say it's strictly better than not using it at all. I'd also say it's pretty rich criticism coming from the 2-shot vig that has already hit a townie (no arguing some negative utility there). Of those two roles which do you think scum would more likely to select?

[mcmcsalot]

Scum is so much more likely to pick the "cover my butt and let me shoot townies role over the I have to give town a double vote or out my partners role" this is ridiculous

[SpaceAnemone]

@2.7, it's your turn for the VT/non-VT and draft order claim. Are you intending to post?

If we get no response from e, I think ash is next in Awaclus's queue, followed by RR.

[faust]

It's ridiculous to put these things against one another; there is no place in the draft order where you decide "do I take the Restless Sheeper or the 2-shot Vig?" Vig is better and if you're higher up, you take it no matter the alignment. This is a fake dichotomy. The question that actually matters is would town really take Restless Sheeper over the other roles in that slot? And the other roles aren't amazing, so it's possible. But I think even 1-shot Commuter has higher utility than the Restless Sheeper for town.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Faust's case is so incredibly flimsy that he's looking scummy by association.

Especially given that there's a far more reasonable case on Ashersky.

On PPS or sudgy? Cause the sudgy case is good.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Faust's case is so incredibly flimsy that he's looking scummy by association.

This is how I have constantly felt about Faust this game.

Cause the case on Andrew or on you or on me that he didn't participate were oh so rock solid?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

It's ridiculous to put these things against one another; there is no place in the draft order where you decide "do I take the Restless Sheeper or the 2-shot Vig?" Vig is better and if you're higher up, you take it no matter the alignment. This is a fake dichotomy. The question that actually matters is would town really take Restless Sheeper over the other roles in that slot? And the other roles aren't amazing, so it's possible. But I think even 1-shot Commuter has higher utility than the Restless Sheeper for town.

I agree. It is a poor comparison.

Honestly I think you both chose poorly. I like commuter more than restless sheeper and I like IC more than 2-shot vig (and the reason is that if IC had been chosen is that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now over whether faust choosing IC had any bearing on his alignment). But I can see the argument for the 2-shot vig.

But that doesn't make PPS scum. The appeal of Restless Sheeper is that it is more fun and original (so too with 2-shot vig, I suppose), which is legitimate

[faust]

It's ridiculous to put these things against one another; there is no place in the draft order where you decide "do I take the Restless Sheeper or the 2-shot Vig?" Vig is better and if you're higher up, you take it no matter the alignment. This is a fake dichotomy. The question that actually matters is would town really take Restless Sheeper over the other roles in that slot? And the other roles aren't amazing, so it's possible. But I think even 1-shot Commuter has higher utility than the Restless Sheeper for town.

I agree. It is a poor comparison.

Honestly I think you both chose poorly. I like commuter more than restless sheeper and I like IC more than 2-shot vig (and the reason is that if IC had been chosen is that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now over whether faust choosing IC had any bearing on his alignment). But I can see the argument for the 2-shot vig.

But that doesn't make PPS scum. The appeal of Restless Sheeper is that it is more fun and original (so too with 2-shot vig, I suppose), which is legitimate

Oh, I agree. But I have been putting PPS in a "solid town" category due to the claim, and only now have realized that that's probably a bad idea.

[2.71828.....]

VT

Pretty sure we weren't supposed to claim our bid position.

[SpaceAnemone]

VT

Pretty sure we weren't supposed to claim our bid position.

Draft order position comes in this round; slot you bid on comes in the second round:

Maybe claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second?

This seems like the best way to go.

I approve of this.

[pingpongsam]

To be perfectly clear, I liked the Restless Sheeper role when it was revealed and I gunned for it specifically because I wanted to play it. I'm pretty certain I would not have pursued it were I scum, though. IIRC, scum gets to communicate prior to picking roles so I would expect to have coordinated my role selection with my partners and I can't imagine them suggesting I go for that one.

I'm not saying my role gives me town status, though. I contend my behavior does and I am using my role to the best effect for town. If the argument is we should kill me just to secure my role for town I'd have to say that is a desperate scum ploy to mislynch a townie as clearly there have to be better options than that.

Please tell me faust isn't going to tunnel me all day and shoot me tonight because of such a genius plan.

[iguanaiguana]

Well, I'm here. I did a massive reread today on a flight but I don't think it's currently a good idea to share reads until we finish this whole mass claim thing.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Please tell me faust isn't going to tunnel me all day and shoot me tonight because of such a genius plan.

faust can speak for himself, but I read his posts on you as a friendly reminder to himself and the rest of us that you aren't as ICish as some of us were thinking. Not that he wanted to immediately lynch you. I think it is a fair assessment and one I agree with.

[ashersky]

Not VT

Is there consensus on when you what our number?

[LaLight]

Not VT

Is there consensus on when you what our number?

I think that since people started to claim numbers, we should claim them. And yes, consensus was there

Maybe claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second?

This seems like the best way to go.

I approve of this.

[Roadrunner7671]

VT

[iguanaiguana]

11 - VT

People who didn't claim number should claim.

[ashersky]

Not VT

Is there consensus on when you what our number?

12

[LaLight]

5, vt

[O]

21, VT

[Awaclus]

10, VT.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm not very keen on everyone letting e off without claiming his bid position. He's been generally against the claim all along, but actively holding out to make other people claim things first is scummy.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Awaclus, might I suggest that e is asked to claim bidding order and slot next, before the rest of the living people do any more claiming?

We have 6 dead people who're not going to be claiming anything about bidding order, but there are still several other alive people who have hidden bidding orders, so that should make it too risky to claim falsely.

[faust]

Compiling:

gkrieg - ?, VT
The_Wine_Merchant - ?, Hider (Slot 10)
Calamitas - ?, Mafia Goon
Eevee - ?, Masonic Lover or VT

faust - 1, 2-shot Vig (Slot 1)

LaLight - 5, VT

sudgy - 7, VT
Dylan32 - 8, VT
Jimmmmm - 9, non-VT
Awaclus - 10, VT
iguanaiguana - 11, VT
ashersky - 12, VT

JReggie - 14, VT

JaketheBaseballGod22 - 17, non-VT
SpaceAnemone - 18, VT

Galzria - 20, Jailkeeper (Slot 11)
O - 21, VT

2.71828..... - ?, VT
pingpongsam - ?, Restless Sheeper
RoadRunner - ?, VT
AndrewisFTTW - ?, VT
gkrieg - ?, VT
The_Wine_Merchant - ?, Hider (Slot 10)
Calamitas - ?, Mafia Goon
Eevee - ?, Masonic Lover or VT
Cuzz - ?, VT
mcmcsalot - ?, Hammer Hero (Slot 9)

[faust]

Whoops; ignore the first 4 names, they are double. After that we have draft order with gaps and then the unclaimed darft order spots. I'm fairly certain that one scum has claimed Calamitas' draft order with VT despite being a PR.