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[O]

I'm fine with the ordering, I didn't really care we just needed one. I just thought it was funny you put O near the bottom and me near the top. O is funny because you generally want your scum reads first so they make the least informed claim. Me because not only have I claimed but I have actually, publicly used my role repeatedly and had discussion surrounding it even specifying the means of obtaining it... but I have no qualms posting it again when time comes.

It's because Awaclus doesn't think I'm scum, he just wants me lynched. Putting me last gives me the least credibility.

[pingpongsam]

I'm fine with the ordering, I didn't really care we just needed one. I just thought it was funny you put O near the bottom and me near the top. O is funny because you generally want your scum reads first so they make the least informed claim. Me because not only have I claimed but I have actually, publicly used my role repeatedly and had discussion surrounding it even specifying the means of obtaining it... but I have no qualms posting it again when time comes.

It's because Awaclus doesn't think I'm scum, he just wants me lynched. Putting me last gives me the least credibility.

I can sympathize to an extent. I did it with Andrew, faust did it with cuzz. The thing is we also played the game in the meantime.

[iguanaiguana]

Alright,  Jake is up first.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Again back to why I find 2.7 scummy.

1. He has tried to create zero accountability for his votes.

The biggest thing we need to worry about is getting a few good wagons going.  That being said, vote: LaLight

Also vote: galzria because I can!
Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case people are confused alerting people to your draft position is dangerous because scum wants to take out people high in the draft.
Ppe 1: well galz is clearly scum.

"Helpful" information that doesn't actually help anything.
Vote: mcmc
because non-RVS votes are always better than RVS votes

I think I will join the
vote: TWM
wagon.  It seems like a fun place to be.

frankly the TWM wagon is incomprehensible to me.

Ugh at work it's hard to formulate the proper case but I understand things have moved quickly. I'll post it in a bit. Or if galz wants to just go through my last few posts and see what I said about twm. My case has nothing to do with going back and forth about massclaiming.

me, I just joined because wagons are fun.  The first real wagon!  6 players and counting!

quote significantly shortened

I think at the moment I'm definitely happy with my vote on Reggie. The weird interaction between him and Gkreig early, followed by his tunneling of TWM with no rhyme or reason, plus the "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which to my knowledge was never said in thread are enough for me at this time.

To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.

That doesn't do anything to lessen j reggies strange fascination for gkrieg this game. Crafting arbitrary means to establish reads also relieves you of actually having to create reads that you can be held accountable for later.

My experiment with the TWM wagon had some results, probably haven't let it sit long enough to really get better results, but I will join galzria with
Vote: J Reggie

When I voted for TWM I had no intentions of lynching him. Just pushing the wagon a bit further and seeing what would happen. Looking back I did a pretty awful job of it since I only stayed on TWM for like 3 hours. It felt like a long time. And I saw the j Reggie case I was much more interested in pursuing. That being said, my read on TWM got steadily more and more scummy, I just didn't want to leave Reggie until he explained his plan.

Had I posted after the plan came out I think I very well may have abandoned j Reggie for TWM, making me one of the "scummy" (still not quite sure why) wagon jumpers. But I honestly don't know how that would have played out.

That being said, there was nothing special to reply to, I just thought I would give my side of the story. I do like what galzria is doing here, totally does not make him town, but might help him into a would not lynch category for today

He fits into the "hot water" scum likely to join my wagon thing that mcmc mentions here. And also falls into it a bit Day 2.

B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.

Here is where I looked into it.

OK.

J Reggie starts the voting on me.
Ash joins - no explanation
mcmc joins - no explanation
Dylan joins - no explanation
sudgy joins. He is the first to provide something of an explanation, FYI. faust has already shown how the reasoning looks fabricated.
2.7 joins - fun place to join
mcmc comes back on
sudgy comes back on voting for me for unvoting J Reggie, which was clearly me being factitious about Jimmmm's request to not end the day early.

And then that is it for Day 1. sudgy votes me again for supposed Calamatis interactions. Again, he didn't actually reread Calam or at least didn't post those, he just found ones that pertained to me and only analyzed those.

vote: sudgy I think both of his votes on me today are reflective of scum falling for me as bait lynch with fabricated or forced reasons.

And I could also look at Dylan/2.7. Ash is an enigma and I see mcmc as town.

Day 3 I didn't like his iguana vote and his being solidly against mass claiming. But that is probably confirmation bias talking at that point, so should be taken with that in mind.

That is what I got substance wise. Add in what I call a gut read, and I have backed off these sorts of reads in the past to my detriment. So take that for what it actually is, some substance and some gut, but I am sticking with vote: 2.7 for now.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

This is the order:

JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy
pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm
Dylan32
2.71828......
ashersky
RoadRunner7671
iguanaiguana
LaLight
O
Awaclus

If this list contains people who already claimed and I missed it, I would like them to claim again.

Well lol of course. So real quick before I claim what exactly are we claiming right now just too be clear.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Maybe claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second?

This seems like the best way to go.

I approve of this.

Looks like draft order and VT/non-VT

[The_Wine_Merchant]

faust didn't directly respond to O's joke. But pretty shortly after he put both O and RR (who was the provocateur/prophet of the joke) as town.

After going through this, amended list:
RR
LaLight
TWM
iguana
O

Just about 100 posts before he had the list as just:

People off today's lynch menu so far:
TWM
LaLight
RR
iguana

O had a largish number of posts in between the two lists culminating in his joke. Some of which, were actually talking about setup theory. faust do you remember what made you add O to your town list? Was it the joke or something else?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

10 minutes later.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

10 minutes later.

Relax. Man i really wanted to go later.( I got some good stuff to claim) Ok I'm calling two things right now. 1. I will most likely get counterclaimed by the end of this claiming. 2. I will most likely get lynched or Nked in the next two days. Ok now to claiming: I got the #17 draft position, and I am Not a VT

[The_Wine_Merchant]

10 minutes later.

Relax. Man i really wanted to go later.( I got some good stuff to claim)

I thought you didn't care.

Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.

t. the guy who's third last in the setup order.

We can go in reverse order if you want I don't care. And why does where I signed up matter?

[iguanaiguana]

Sudgy's up.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

10 minutes later.

Relax. Man i really wanted to go later.( I got some good stuff to claim)

I thought you didn't care.

Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.

t. the guy who's third last in the setup order.

We can go in reverse order if you want I don't care. And why does where I signed up matter?

I don't care I'm just saying it would be nicer to go later but I really don't care.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Well you were using it as a reason for me to relax. But you don't care. Like, you keep saying that, so you must really mean it. You really don't care. At all. I totally believe you. About not caring that is. You don't.

[2.71828.....]

Again back to why I find 2.7 scummy.

1. He has tried to create zero accountability for his votes.

In what way? What kind of accountability are you looking for?

He fits into the "hot water" scum likely to join my wagon thing that mcmc mentions here. And also falls into it a bit Day 2.

B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.

I left mcmc's quote in for context on the "hot water scum" comment. This is the "me vs the world" attitude that tipped me off to your being town in M98. Your "nah nah nah Andrew was town I was right" post to start the day today. The overwhelming sense of "no matter what I do I won't be lynched because I am an IC" attitude. In M98 that want true, and you got lynched for it (with me defending you the whole way). Here, you actually are an "IC". I totally believe you are town at this point. I am totally not questioning your hider claim.

But the whole idea that every scum is out to get you is just not true. Town lynches town all the time.

PPEs because phone posting is slow

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't think every scum is out to get me. But I do think I have a pull towards scum that makes me more appealing. And I think it is worth looking at those who might have hopped onto a wagon that looked promising and had "merit." For example, how every scum pretended to scum read me in M98.

You and a couple of others (sudgy) fit that description for the Day 1 wagon. This isn't the pure OMGUS that you are trying to spin it as.

And I am not necessarily looking for accountability. But seriously, almost all of your Day 1 wagons were "wagons are fun" or "I am just voting to build a wagon" sort of votes. Those lack accountability as they are easy to back off of with ease.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Well you were using it as a reason for me to relax. But you don't care. Like, you keep saying that, so you must really mean it. You really don't care. At all. I totally believe you. About not caring that is. You don't.

All i said was relax, I never used it as a reason for you too but I don't feel like getting into a fight with you so whateves.

[2.71828.....]

I don't think every scum is out to get me. But I do think I have a pull towards scum that makes me more appealing. And I think it is worth looking at those who might have hopped onto a wagon that looked promising and had "merit." For example, how every scum pretended to scum read me in M98.

You and a couple of others (sudgy) fit that description for the Day 1 wagon. This isn't the pure OMGUS that you are trying to spin it as.

And I am not necessarily looking for accountability. But seriously, almost all of your Day 1 wagons were "wagons are fun" or "I am just voting to build a wagon" sort of votes. Those lack accountability as they are easy to back off of with ease.

The "wagons are fun" and "I am just voting to build up a wagon" both refer to the same vote: the one on you.  I made a post once a while back that I could probably find if I wasn't lazy about types of votes and what they are used for.  Not all votes are equal.

I voted LaLight for RVS
I voted mcmc because I thought he was scum
I voted you because I wanted reactions to a wagon
I voted J Reggie because I thought he was scum

There you go for accountability.  I only voted 4 times, 3 serious, 2 on people I thought were scum.  Reads evolve, after J Reggie flipped I was pretty sure he was town.  My post saying that I might have switched off J Reggie had I been able to post before he was lynched can be portrayed as my trying to avoid accountability, but all you have to do is go to my post where I say "I won't switch off a person until they have claimed and they stated they won't claim unless L-1" if you want to find your accountability.

[sudgy]

I'm a VT.  I got draft #7 and got too cocky and went for Universal Backup (because it sounded fun and could be possibly be useful).

[iguanaiguana]

Cool. As a reminder, don't claim your role or what you bid for until round two.

PPS has already claimed Restless Sheeper but I guess we don't know his draft order. I'd actually recommend that he doesn't claim that until round two, because I can't see how that possibly helps us.

So if we can agree to skip PPS for now, Spaceanemone is next.

[2.71828.....]

I still don't really like the mass claim.  I was thinking about it while I was at work, but it kind of just happened anyway.

Here are some of my thoughts:

Scum already knows what PRs town has (possibly). They at least know which ones they have and which ones they bid at but didn't get.  They also have

For balance purposes, all Not-Town aligned players will be told exactly which PRs were randomly included in these slots. They will not be told which PRs, if any, were chosen.

Here is what scum gets:  The entire breakdown of VT/PRs to decide who to kill from. 

Here is what we already have: 5 claimed PRs and 12 unclaimed (well, not totally anymore) others. 

What does town get: A lynchpool of VTs to lynch out of (probably still around 8 or so, I don't know), oh, and not to mention the fakeclaims that scum have....and the real claims that scum have if they took town roles.  Oh, and we also get the ability to "coordinate" better at night.

I just really don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

That being said, I will claim when it is my turn.  Not going to go completely rogue here.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

For my role I like having VTs claimed.

[2.71828.....]

As far as increased coordination?  All the roles that need to coordinate have already claimed.  I don't really care who our possible doctor or role cop or tracker or whatever is - I trust them to do their job.  Scum does care who they are and slightly decreasing the lynchpool does not help our PRs with 17 people still alive.  With 13 or 11 or definitely 8 or so yes.  But with 17?  Too early in my opinion.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

For reasons. I'll explain later, probably.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Cool. As a reminder, don't claim your role or what you bid for until round two.

PPS has already claimed Restless Sheeper but I guess we don't know his draft order. I'd actually recommend that he doesn't claim that until round two, because I can't see how that possibly helps us.

So if we can agree to skip PPS for now, Spaceanemone is next.

I think Vts can claim what they went after now because if I have this right (feel free to correct me if not) but Vts are not participating in round 2 so they mine as well claim what position they bid for now.

[2.71828.....]

Cool. As a reminder, don't claim your role or what you bid for until round two.

PPS has already claimed Restless Sheeper but I guess we don't know his draft order. I'd actually recommend that he doesn't claim that until round two, because I can't see how that possibly helps us.

So if we can agree to skip PPS for now, Spaceanemone is next.

I think Vts can claim what they went after now because if I have this right (feel free to correct me if not) but Vts are not participating in round 2 so they mine as well claim what position they bid for now.

No, no.  Give iguana his town points for making sure we follow the mass claim correctly.  scum!iguana needs them.