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[LaLight]

actually the whole argument is redundant. If Galzria is scum it's still hard to see how claiming was optimal here, he only fished out a bit about Vig and put himself under the spotlight.

Unless you can make an argument for why Galzria claiming here is an effective scum play the "Galzria doesn't make mistakes" philosophy isn't relevant.

to mislynch ash who may be known to mafia as a strong town pr maybe

[O]

actually the whole argument is redundant. If Galzria is scum it's still hard to see how claiming was optimal here, he only fished out a bit about Vig and put himself under the spotlight.

Unless you can make an argument for why Galzria claiming here is an effective scum play the "Galzria doesn't make mistakes" philosophy isn't relevant.

to mislynch ash who may be known to mafia as a strong town pr maybe

and they can't nightkill him?

[Awaclus]

Galzria's claim was probably not optimal play but since Awaclus is alive we know f.ds doesn't lynch for suboptimal play.

And since you're alive, we also know f.ds doesn't lynch for being scum.

[LaLight]

actually the whole argument is redundant. If Galzria is scum it's still hard to see how claiming was optimal here, he only fished out a bit about Vig and put himself under the spotlight.

Unless you can make an argument for why Galzria claiming here is an effective scum play the "Galzria doesn't make mistakes" philosophy isn't relevant.

to mislynch ash who may be known to mafia as a strong town pr maybe

and they can't nightkill him?

yeah, okay, doesn't make sense. unvote

[LaLight]

i don't know. I 100% believe faust here though

[SpaceAnemone]

are Faust and Ashersky really two of the most well respected players likely to be high on the draft?

yup. But so was gkrieg for one

Still catching up with what was said overnight (from my perspective), but I definitely agree with this.

[SpaceAnemone]

2. we can have a confirmed IC if Eevee's lover claims. Scum is unlikely to claim they were eevee's lover now. At the same time, i'm not sure if there's a benefit to having them claim now as opposed to claiming later if we were potentially lynching them. Claim now: save potential PR waste and town knows that they are town (which mafia already knows). Claim later: Don't alert Scum to someone that isn't an important PR.

This is exactly what I'd said a whole bunch of posts earlier... what did you think about that post, and my subsequent claiming suggestion?

The fact that we've had Galz and faust talking about their roles, slots and claiming order in the intervening posts means I still think it's a good time to claim draft order and slot bidding.

[Roadrunner7671]

So Faust and Gala are partners here, pretty much.

[ashersky]

Being jailed also means I was doctored, which would account for a missing death, if there is one.

O's personal opinions of the current crop of veterans' value as human beings and mafia players aside (given he quit before Robz published the Civility Pledge, I guess that's allowed?), players like faust and myself are NK targets for our active players.  If you want to play all sorts of "what if" games, remember that missing kills -- if any are missing -- are not caused solely by blockers.  Doctoring is a thing, even in this particular setup.

[ashersky]

On the Mason -- I think the claim is sensible considering how badly this game needs a voice we can all trust.

The "almost ICs" don't have that universally, even mcmc.  TWM has received some suspicion, Awaclus is not loved by many.  So yes, a verified IC makes complete sense at this juncture.

[ashersky]

On faust killing Cuzz -- that's only a lie if he's mafia/WW covering for a partner.  And if it is a lie, it's as good as the truth for all intents and purposes.

Cuzz was a decisive presence, so I can see how this lays things to rest.  We can trust his opinions in retrospect, which sometimes felt haphazard.

As for Eevee's death, harder to explain given his relative lack of presence in the game.

[ashersky]

So Faust and Gala are partners here, pretty much.

Can you expand on this?  Seems like a risky move to tie themselves together so much so soon.  Desperate times, I guess, especially if they are WW together.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Second. I chose to not hide last night.

You are not being a good.

Why? Cause I didn't want mafia to bus drive me into themselves. No thank you.

Why didn't you just hide behind someone else?

I thought about it. But felt that because town would have no idea who I hid behind, if I died the knowledge would die with me or potentially falsely implicate mcmc.

[O]

O's personal opinions of the current crop of veterans' value as human beings and mafia players aside (given he quit before Robz published the Civility Pledge, I guess that's allowed?)

What? This post is literally more uncivil than anything I said. Do you think "I don't think Galzria is scum just because he's playing non-perfectly" is some massive indictment of Galzria's value as a human being?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Also, TWM got pretty lucky here.

Why?

I did what I thought mafia thought I was least likely to do. I think I properly WIFOMed them

[ashersky]

Further on Galz, everything he's written reads as the town!Galz from years ago.  Both jailing targets make sense on some level, especially separately.

Together, though, seems harder.  Given I definitely think it's true that Galz thought faust was a killing role, I'm having trouble parsing why he defaults to vig (and not mafia or SK or WW) in his lines of thinking and explanations.  This is the single strongest point against him.

I mean, in all his explanations, it is so very vig focused.  If Galz is town, he can't know if faust is vig or scum, so the best play has to be jailing faust again.

If Galz is scum, given the situation the game is in (with town's significantly better odds of winning due to setup issues), I think he decides MORE kills are better per night, and sets the vig free.

So the change in target makes much more sense for scum tactically than town.

[O]

2. we can have a confirmed IC if Eevee's lover claims. Scum is unlikely to claim they were eevee's lover now. At the same time, i'm not sure if there's a benefit to having them claim now as opposed to claiming later if we were potentially lynching them. Claim now: save potential PR waste and town knows that they are town (which mafia already knows). Claim later: Don't alert Scum to someone that isn't an important PR.

This is exactly what I'd said a whole bunch of posts earlier... what did you think about that post, and my subsequent claiming suggestion?

The fact that we've had Galz and faust talking about their roles, slots and claiming order in the intervening posts means I still think it's a good time to claim draft order and slot bidding.

I agree. I probably should have quoted you when i said that to make it clear you pointed out the IC situation first.

[ashersky]

O's personal opinions of the current crop of veterans' value as human beings and mafia players aside (given he quit before Robz published the Civility Pledge, I guess that's allowed?)

What? This post is literally more uncivil than anything I said. Do you think "I don't think Galzria is scum just because he's playing non-perfectly" is some massive indictment of Galzria's value as a human being?

Your thought on Galzria was not what I was referring to.  I was referring to your clearly dismissive post about faust and myself.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I dont thi k either galz or Faust are good lynches now.

[ashersky]

Also, TWM got pretty lucky here.

Why?

I did what I thought mafia thought I was least likely to do. I think I properly WIFOMed them

On TWM, given what we know now, he made the right call last night.  I also don't understand faust's point, as I find it very unlikely that any scum would take a shot at a claimed Hider.  Seems more likely they'd just shoot at who they think he's hiding behind in case of shenanigans there.

[O]

O's personal opinions of the current crop of veterans' value as human beings and mafia players aside (given he quit before Robz published the Civility Pledge, I guess that's allowed?)

What? This post is literally more uncivil than anything I said. Do you think "I don't think Galzria is scum just because he's playing non-perfectly" is some massive indictment of Galzria's value as a human being?

Your thought on Galzria was not what I was referring to.  I was referring to your clearly dismissive post about faust and myself.

I'll spell it out for you since you're massively misinterpreting this.

My draft position is low and I included you and faust as the answers to the most feared scum and best townies to get PRs.

I was asking if that was general consensus because my draft position did not reflect that being the consensus. I personally voted for you and Faust as good players, but it was off of mostly arbitrary analysis since i haven't read previous mafia games largely.

[ashersky]

Thanks for the clarification.

When the game is over and the answers are published, I think you'll see that those answers are not the reason for your draft position, whatever it may be.

[O]

no problem. sorry for the misunderstanding.

you're still scum tho and i'ma lynch you.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Ash, do you think you would have been a NK target last night?

In your opinion, why would a scum faction want to kill you?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And I will bring this up again. I think a town 1-shot Bus Driver will claim. To the extent that if someone decided to claim this on a later day I will refuse to believe them and consider them scum.