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[faust]

are Faust and Ashersky really two of the most well respected players likely to be high on the draft?

Well we do have the most games played among all signed-up players, I'm fairly sure.

[O]

are Faust and Ashersky really two of the most well respected players likely to be high on the draft?

Well we do have the most games played among all signed-up players, I'm fairly sure.

either this is immediately obvious to pretty much everyone or the majority of players here disagree with you from my drafting perspective.

[LaLight]

are Faust and Ashersky really two of the most well respected players likely to be high on the draft?

yup. But so was gkrieg for one

[faust]

vote: Galzria

Was it really needed to claim? Why do you intent ash is scum before you know if faust shot? That all looks like a (badly) fabricated plan actually

PPE: 2

I claimed because Faust asked me to, and following n1 I felt (and correctly so) that my claim had the biggest impact on him. I could've lied about who I jailed n1, or why that made me read Faust the way I did, or he'll, what my PR is even - but lying as town is stupid.

Ash has a high likelihood of being scum if Faust shot because there were only two deaths.

SK + Mafia + Vig = 3. If we know the Vig is one, then one scum shot was likely blocked (or hit the same target I suppose). As I know I blocked Ash, this would lead to the idea that if Faust shot, Ash has a decent chance to be scum.

You're logic makes little sense.

If I didn't shoot, then there were 2 kills and mafia shot one of Cuzz/Eevee/Eevee's lover (? Not sure about the interaction there)

If I did shoot, and mafia shot one of these, then that explains only 2 kills as well.

So the question you should ask is, did scum shoot one of these? Whether or not I shot doesn't really matter for this.

[O]

vote: Galzria

Was it really needed to claim? Why do you intent ash is scum before you know if faust shot? That all looks like a (badly) fabricated plan actually

PPE: 2

I claimed because Faust asked me to, and following n1 I felt (and correctly so) that my claim had the biggest impact on him. I could've lied about who I jailed n1, or why that made me read Faust the way I did, or he'll, what my PR is even - but lying as town is stupid.

Ash has a high likelihood of being scum if Faust shot because there were only two deaths.

SK + Mafia + Vig = 3. If we know the Vig is one, then one scum shot was likely blocked (or hit the same target I suppose). As I know I blocked Ash, this would lead to the idea that if Faust shot, Ash has a decent chance to be scum.

You're logic makes little sense.

If I didn't shoot, then there were 2 kills and mafia shot one of Cuzz/Eevee/Eevee's lover (? Not sure about the interaction there)

If I did shoot, and mafia shot one of these, then that explains only 2 kills as well.

So the question you should ask is, did scum shoot one of these? Whether or not I shot doesn't really matter for this.

what? this isn't parsing at all.

[O]

Eevee's lover has no reason to be shot at all. Eevee's lover has survived, so Eevee wouldn't be dead if the lover was the one targeted.

[Galzria]

Faust, I'm not understanding your misunderstanding about the death count.

If you shoot, SK shoots, and Mafia shoot then we should expect 3 deaths (assuming nobody shoots the same target).

But there were only 2 deaths. If you didn't shoot, then that makes sense. SK killed, and Mafia killed.

If you DID shoot though, then one death is missing (we have 2, not 3). My assertion is that it's likely I blocked scum!Ash in this scenario. The other option here would be cross-shooting, which I find less likely.

[O]

we should expect either 3 or 4 deaths. Not 2 or 3. Why does it seem I'm the only one who acknowledges this.

[O]

unless lover is uni-directional, but that's also very much not standard.

[Awaclus]

we should expect either 3 or 4 deaths. Not 2 or 3. Why does it seem I'm the only one who acknowledges this.

Because you're scum.

[O]

we should expect either 3 or 4 deaths. Not 2 or 3. Why does it seem I'm the only one who acknowledges this.

Because you're scum.

not gonna lie i chuckled at this one.

[Galzria]

we should expect either 3 or 4 deaths. Not 2 or 3. Why does it seem I'm the only one who acknowledges this.

SK, Vig, Mafia - where is the other "expected" death coming from? There's ways to run up the count, sure (HH, Inventor Poison, Hider, front side of Masonic getting killed, etc), but I'm not sure where you're getting the other expected death.

[Galzria]

unless lover is uni-directional, but that's also very much not standard.

Ah. Um... (looking at roles, 2 minutes)

[faust]

Faust, I'm not understanding your misunderstanding about the death count.

If you shoot, SK shoots, and Mafia shoot then we should expect 3 deaths (assuming nobody shoots the same target).

But there were only 2 deaths. If you didn't shoot, then that makes sense. SK killed, and Mafia killed.

If you DID shoot though, then one death is missing (we have 2, not 3). My assertion is that it's likely I blocked scum!Ash in this scenario. The other option here would be cross-shooting, which I find less likely.

Either mafia shot one of Cuzz/Eevee, or they didn't.

If they did, we have no evidence on ash.

If they didn't, then we have a missing kill.

This is independent from whether or not I shot tonight.

[Galzria]

unless lover is uni-directional, but that's also very much not standard.

Ah. Um... (looking at roles, 2 minutes)

"Masonic Lover
Quote
You are a Masonic Lover!

Quote from: Eevee on December 29, 2012, 06:23:25 am
Grujah, why the vote on me? I'm a freaking mason! We are confirmed town to each other with arch..

(If Not-Town) This role has no effect.

(If Town) A random Vanilla Townie will receive a QT with you. (This player's role will now be considered Masonic Lover for investigatory purposes.) This QT is always open. You will be confirmed town to each other.

If you die, this other player dies as well, unless protected from a kill. But if the other player dies, you will not die."

[Galzria]

It's uni-directional

[O]

i

unless lover is uni-directional, but that's also very much not standard.

Ah. Um... (looking at roles, 2 minutes)

"Masonic Lover
Quote
You are a Masonic Lover!

Quote from: Eevee on December 29, 2012, 06:23:25 am
Grujah, why the vote on me? I'm a freaking mason! We are confirmed town to each other with arch..

(If Not-Town) This role has no effect.

(If Town) A random Vanilla Townie will receive a QT with you. (This player's role will now be considered Masonic Lover for investigatory purposes.) This QT is always open. You will be confirmed town to each other.

If you die, this other player dies as well, unless protected from a kill. But if the other player dies, you will not die."

Oh. I can't read. That's very much not standard.

[Galzria]

Alright. It's almost 2AM here, I've had a long (fun, but long) day and I'm sleepy. Hopefully more people will join in the fun by morning.

[O]

Faust, I'm not understanding your misunderstanding about the death count.

If you shoot, SK shoots, and Mafia shoot then we should expect 3 deaths (assuming nobody shoots the same target).

But there were only 2 deaths. If you didn't shoot, then that makes sense. SK killed, and Mafia killed.

If you DID shoot though, then one death is missing (we have 2, not 3). My assertion is that it's likely I blocked scum!Ash in this scenario. The other option here would be cross-shooting, which I find less likely.

Either mafia shot one of Cuzz/Eevee, or they didn't.

If they did, we have no evidence on ash.

If they didn't, then we have a missing kill.

This is independent from whether or not I shot tonight.

This literally makes no sense in the slightest to me. If you shot cuzz/eevee there are 3 expected kills and one was blocked. If you didn't there are two expected kills. It's pointless for us to ask whether mafia shot Cuzz/Eevee or not because Ash being mafia, being blocked and shooting someone else is a potential case if you shot one of cuzz/eevee.

[O]

Even if Mafia shot Cuzz/Eevee, if you shot Cuzz/Eevee there is still evidence against Ash, the missing theoretical third kill. Obviously this is WIFOM on whether you're lying about vig or Ash is lying but it's still substantial evidence. Your second line is entirely false. 

[faust]

Well fine. I shot Cuzz, it's not like that will come as a surprice to anyone.

[O]

vote: Ashersky

Galzria's claim was probably not optimal play but since Awaclus is alive we know f.ds doesn't lynch for suboptimal play.
 
I was frankly amazed that nobody hopped on the Ashersky wagon yesterday given how obvious it felt to me by how he was ranting. He seems the most likely to be scum to me of Galzria/Faust/Ashersky, though technically it's not guaranteed that one of the three is scum at all.

[LaLight]

I don't believe in suboptimal play of Galzria. something pings me here

[O]

I don't believe in suboptimal play of Galzria. something pings me here

Maybe he evolved into some super mafia god after I left but he wasn't better or worse than anyone else when I played with him.

He's 10-9 in normal mafia games too, so I actually think your opinion isn't really backed up by stats either. This isn't trying to put Galzria down... I just don't see what you see.

[O]

actually the whole argument is redundant. If Galzria is scum it's still hard to see how claiming was optimal here, he only fished out a bit about Vig and put himself under the spotlight.

Unless you can make an argument for why Galzria claiming here is an effective scum play the "Galzria doesn't make mistakes" philosophy isn't relevant.