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[pingpongsam]

I think the key to catching scum!Galz was always reading between the lines; his posts will sweet-talk you or impress you into submission, so ignore the language and break down what he's saying into humanspeak.

Frustrating response if you are trying to tell me that I didn't do that because I feel like that is the kernel of my case - his supposed reasoning is plausible but no amount of reasoning can explain away scummy waggoneering, especially if the person has a reputation for being able to talk himself out of anything.

One can argue it's the key to mislynching glazria as well.

[Cuzz]

Jimmmmmm can you please answer this at some point?

I want to know more about Jake and Jimmmm's votes for mcmc.

To both of you: What do you think about mcmc's mistake regarding the scum QT? Please read that carefully because I think it should be clearly accounted for if you truly believe he is scum.

[Cuzz]

Jake why did you unvote mcmc?

[Cuzz]

Also, in general, I don't like how much he posts conclusions and compared to how little he asks questions. I mean, it's easy to solve something when you already know the answers.

From what I recall (though I just played a single game with him before and that was some 4 years ago), that is just his playstyle.

faust you liked iguana's suspicion of Galz at the end of D1 and voted for him. what do you think now?

[faust]

Also, in general, I don't like how much he posts conclusions and compared to how little he asks questions. I mean, it's easy to solve something when you already know the answers.

From what I recall (though I just played a single game with him before and that was some 4 years ago), that is just his playstyle.

faust you liked iguana's suspicion of Galz at the end of D1 and voted for him. what do you think now?

Things I would rather not discuss.

[mcmcsalot]

I've got things to discuss and I think now is probably as good a time as any to do that.

[Dylan32]

Also, in general, I don't like how much he posts conclusions and compared to how little he asks questions. I mean, it's easy to solve something when you already know the answers.

From what I recall (though I just played a single game with him before and that was some 4 years ago), that is just his playstyle.

faust you liked iguana's suspicion of Galz at the end of D1 and voted for him. what do you think now?

Things I would rather not discuss.

To be perfectly clear, I understand why you would want to do this, but a question for other people who have played with faust a lot: Does anyone remember faust actually playing stuff this close to his chest before? I'm trying to think back to games I've played with him, and even in town!PR!faust games nothing sticks out as far as him making a point of saying that he has stuff he doesn't want to say. While I am townreading faust, in the back of my mind I am curious if this is scum!faust acting like a PR to cement the townreads people have on him so that we don't push him towards a lynch.

[mcmcsalot]

@dylan I do think it was galz who first mentioned the night actions before faust ever said anything. So there is that.

[Cuzz]

@dylan I do think it was galz who first mentioned the night actions before faust ever said anything. So there is that.

huh?

[mcmcsalot]

@dylan I do think it was galz who first mentioned the night actions before faust ever said anything. So there is that.

huh?

Dylan is saying it's wierd faust isn't telling us about his actions and is saying he doesn't want to tell us things but I think galz first asked faust if faust wanted to talk about the night actions and faust said no. So it's not like faust said "I have night results but don't want to talk about it" out of the blue.

[mcmcsalot]

Was there a reason the results from N1 might have surprised you?

Have have not forgotten this by the way, I'm just not sure yet if and what I want to respond.

Yea galz brought it up first.

[mcmcsalot]

Second person: faust

I actually don't want to do faust right now because I have a very strong town read on him for reasons I don't wish to discuss.

faust, feel free to answer this or ignore it, but it'll confirm my belief and we can discuss it later if you wish:

Was there a reason the results from N1 might have surprised you?

Full quote from galz so yea I don't think it's wierd of faust nor do I think he's "holding things close to his chest" let them discuss when they feel is appropriate.

[2.71828.....]

I am finding myself with very few strong town reads and a lot of suspicion on a lot of different people.

Ashersky hasn't done anything too townie or scummy, but that makes me suspect him

Galzria has only done townie things, but it is almost too good to be true (see the little conversation between ash and iguana)

In M98 I had a very strong (and accurate) town read on TWM, but I am just not getting the same vibes here, but nothing really and truly brings him over the edge to truly scummy.

I could go on, but I need to eat breakfast

PPEs happen

[mcmcsalot]

So while we should let people reveal things on their own time I think things are only going k get more obvious for scum and more dangerous to town as time goes on so here goes nothing.

I have run the scenarios through my head and I think it is in town's best interest for me to claim. I was hoping to be able to take the hammer much more inconspicuously than I did yesterday so as to trick scum into shooting me. Though the fact is the hammerhero was discussed waaay more than I thought it would be and I think it has become quite apparent to people what my role most likely is. The fact that scum knows they don't have the role cements it in their minds even more and the fact that I will be taking the hammer each day is also going to confirm to scum that I am in fact the town hammer hero.

The reason I think it is best to claim is because I want to be able to add my support to wagons and support my reads with votes but I am also going to be staying off wagons so that I can hammer. The goal of hammering is and always was to be an invincible town player. I chose deathproof last night and I will be wifoming scum eachnight from here on out however it is my thoughts that in most cases vigs shouldn't shoot till close to endgame or when the numbers make sense.

Now I can answer any questions people want of me. I can claim my draft order and all the slots I believed were taken before me and why I chose the hammer hero.

First I want to explain my plan for creating two unkillable town players. This involes the hider. If we allow me to have the hammer the hider can safely hide behind me making us both deathproof. This also serves the dual purpose of copping me because once the hider claims and hides behind me the next day they will still be alive and I will be confirmed town. I have looked at the slot motion detector/hider/gambler. I doubt scum has taken any of these roles though there is a slight chance a scum chose hider, I have not figured out a good way to guarantee the hider is town.

[faust]

A scum!Hider cannot hide behind town without dying.

[mcmcsalot]

A scum!Hider cannot hide behind town without dying.

Oh yay! I didn't know that I though hider period died behind scum.

[O]

Why did you think it was so necessary to get the ability night one? Were you that worried about a NK attempt?

It could very well be that MCMC is town and scum attempted a shot on him and failed and we have a vig + SK/Werewolf kill on the board. In that situation claiming now was definitely the right move since mafia knows you're a PR anyways, if they didn't guess it from yesterday.

[Dylan32]

@dylan I do think it was galz who first mentioned the night actions before faust ever said anything. So there is that.

huh?

Dylan is saying it's wierd faust isn't telling us about his actions and is saying he doesn't want to tell us things but I think galz first asked faust if faust wanted to talk about the night actions and faust said no. So it's not like faust said "I have night results but don't want to talk about it" out of the blue.

faust actually started the day with one of the first few posts of D2 with this:

Hi! I'm still alive.

Calamitas looks like an SK shot? It's definitely more likely that there is one now. Or Werewolves I suppose.

There is something I may or may not want to talk about.

So faust made a point of it way before Galz's question.

PPE a few +2

[ashersky]

I think the key to catching scum!Galz was always reading between the lines; his posts will sweet-talk you or impress you into submission, so ignore the language and break down what he's saying into humanspeak.

Frustrating response if you are trying to tell me that I didn't do that because I feel like that is the kernel of my case - his supposed reasoning is plausible but no amount of reasoning can explain away scummy waggoneering, especially if the person has a reputation for being able to talk himself out of anything.

I was just providing an observation as someone who played with the original Galz back in the day.  I think you are clearly aware of the dangers of scum!galzria.

What you need to be careful of is making this characteristic of Galzria the player the "kernel of [your] case."

For anyone to say "This Galzria guy is a slick talker, he must be scum" isn't a good case; that's the same as saying "This Galzria guy is left-handed, he must be scum." 

If his reasoning is plausible, it's plausible.  If it isn't, or you think it is scum-manufactured, you need to focus on showing that.  Arguing that "well, it's plausible but since Galz is a slick talker, it feels slimy and untrue" doesn't work.

In a bad attempt at an analogy, imagine the slickest used car salesperson you can, the ones who'll lie to sell you a lemon at a terrible price.  It's a stereotype that works in this case.  No matter what he says, you will mistrust it.  Galzria is that salesman.

Now, if that salesman were to say "this here car is a beauty!  Look at that red paint!" and the car is actually red, well you can't say he lied there, even if he said it in a lying way.

The way to catch scum!Galz is to find the lies, not the way he says them.

[ashersky]

Any reason we should believe mcmc is town vs. scum hammer hero?

[Dylan32]

Any reason we should believe mcmc is town vs. scum hammer hero?

I think he should probably go ahead and claim draft order and if he got it from the original slot or one of the random ones.

[faust]

Problems we might have with mcmc's plan:

- 1-shot Strongman. Hammer Hero says "completely safe", so this is not an issue I think? Robz, can you clarify?
- 1-shot Bus Driver. I am not sure on how Bus Driver & Hider would interact if they targeted the same player. Asking for clarification here as well.

I think that is all. Sounds good so far.

[faust]

Any reason we should believe mcmc is town vs. scum hammer hero?

Yes, the Hider plan.

[O]

Any reason we should believe mcmc is town vs. scum hammer hero?

I would expect he'd attempt to use a kill last night, which would mean the normal scum kill would have had to been blocked in some way by random chance. Of course he could choose immunity to WIFOM after that.

Either way if we get a hider claim (unlikely IMO) we'd just know day 3 when we see a dead hider in the night.

[mcmcsalot]

Why did you think it was so necessary to get the ability night one? Were you that worried about a NK attempt?

Yes and no. Yes my plan from game start was to be a strong enough town player to draw a nightkill. No because I didn't think it would be such a big deal to hammer, I planned on being able to get the hammer in an much more inconspicuous way so that it wouldn't be so obvious I was a hammer hero. Then when jreggie said his stuff about self hammering I was legitimately thought no way a vt is so super worried about a scum!hammerhero he comes up with a plan day one to self hammer. So I thought this is definitely a scum player who knows they don't have a hammer hero and they are on the lookout and want to stop me from getting the hammer at all costs. So I though A) I want that hammer to be safe, B) I want to hammer scum, so let's do it.

Ppe 7