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[LaLight]

I.. have no idea why, but I fell like faust is scum. I need to think about it

[faust]

Galz
O
faust
pps
Eevee

Is this more than "people I played with before, plus faust"?

[faust]

Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.

Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast

What's that supposed to mean?

[Awaclus]

Asking pps to use people's actual names is almost like asking Awaclus to be reasonable.

Hypocritical?

[faust]

Vote Count 1.9

mcmcsalot (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
J Reggie (6): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, sudgy
Awaclus (1): O
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
AndrewisFTTW (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm,

With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.

People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?

Cuzz: Do you think your vote is in the best possible place right now?

People on the J Reggie wagon:
a) Can you outline how your read on J Reggie evolved over the course of the game so far?
b) Who of your fellow wagoners do you think has the highest chance of flipping scum?

[LaLight]

Vote Count 1.9

mcmcsalot (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
J Reggie (6): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, sudgy
Awaclus (1): O
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
AndrewisFTTW (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm,

With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.

People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?

Cuzz: Do you think your vote is in the best possible place right now?

People on the J Reggie wagon:
a) Can you outline how your read on J Reggie evolved over the course of the game so far?
b) Who of your fellow wagoners do you think has the highest chance of flipping scum?

I have made a case a whhile ago about weird mcmc's stance on TWM and strange change of opinion.

[faust]

I see. Thank you.

[LaLight]

I see. Thank you.

What do you think?

[iguanaiguana]

Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.

Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast

What's that supposed to mean?

His case is that TWM switched from criticizing Jim for asking us not to end the day too soon to unvoting in order to stall the end of day at an unnaturally fast rate.

[SpaceAnemone]

People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?

I posted my reasoning at #974, but I'm not at all confident in any reads yet :-(

[faust]

I see. Thank you.

What do you think?

I think there's not a lot to gain for scum!mcmc by jumping on the TWM wagon.

[faust]

People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?

I posted my reasoning at #974, but I'm not at all confident in any reads yet :-(

What scumslip are you referring to in #974?

[faust]

Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.

Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast

What's that supposed to mean?

His case is that TWM switched from criticizing Jim for asking us not to end the day too soon to unvoting in order to stall the end of day at an unnaturally fast rate.

And you know this how?

[faust]

Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.

Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast

What's that supposed to mean?

His case is that TWM switched from criticizing Jim for asking us not to end the day too soon to unvoting in order to stall the end of day at an unnaturally fast rate.

And you know this how?

Nevermind, the context is actually quite clear. Somehow I missed this before.

[SpaceAnemone]

Question for faust: in RMM37, which you modded, I had what I thought was a really workable strategy about claiming the order of our night actions, because the question of who had precedence was quite important when looking at the things that had happened. Do you think it's really obvious in this game that claiming the bidding order would be a bad thing overall (clearly it's bad for particular players/roles in isolation), or is there a case to be made for it along similar lines? Cal, I'd also be interested in your personal conclusion on this! Feel free to respond in non-specific ways; I'm more interested in knowing that you've thought the possibility through than seeing all your working in-thread for now.

[faust]

Question for faust: in RMM37, which you modded, I had what I thought was a really workable strategy about claiming the order of our night actions, because the question of who had precedence was quite important when looking at the things that had happened. Do you think it's really obvious in this game that claiming the bidding order would be a bad thing overall (clearly it's bad for particular players/roles in isolation), or is there a case to be made for it along similar lines? Cal, I'd also be interested in your personal conclusion on this! Feel free to respond in non-specific ways; I'm more interested in knowing that you've thought the possibility through than seeing all your working in-thread for now.

In my opinion, the point of very early claiming is to put scum under pressure by having them commit to a fakeclaim that will restrict their ability to make stuff up later on. Bidding order is not something that they could safely fake even later in the game, plus it's not even alignment-indicative, so I don't really know what the benefit of this would be.

[SpaceAnemone]

People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?

I posted my reasoning at #974, but I'm not at all confident in any reads yet :-(

What scumslip are you referring to in #974?

It's this:

(This is something I told twm to do in our first mafia game together, let townies enhance your case for you)

I know it's terribly weak evidence, but I do think it's something he is actually more likely to think/say if the two of them have drawn scum together more than once, which makes it technically alignment-indicative, in a very marginal sort of way.

[SpaceAnemone]

Bidding order is not something that they could safely fake even later in the game

This is not technically true; they'll know each other's bidding orders by now, at least within the mafia faction. Plus, I'm assuming bidding order doesn't flip with a player, meaning with the info scum has, they're more likely to be able to infer a named PR's bidding order than we are.

plus it's not even alignment-indicative, so I don't really know what the benefit of this would be.

It adds a load of constraints about who could have claimed what slot, and those constraints get tighter as the game goes on and people flip. The cool thing is that scum probably went for scum-beneficial PRs, so if there's a clear towny PR in a slot we know they must have selected, and they can't prove they have that PR, we've got them cornered. So we get to hold the threat of slot-claiming over scum, and in terms of adding setup constraints to boost our ability to solve things later on, I think it's a clear benefit. The question for me is just whether that benefit outweighs the cost of outing a few of the highest-ranked people as possible/probable PRs. I don't see why the fausts and Cals of this game aren't at least discussing the idea.

(I do get why the 2.7s of the game aren't... e and I have a big TvT spat about this sort of constraint-driven approach in RMM37 and we lost, so I'm not saying it's a clear strategy, just one that I'm surprised people aren't at least looking at).

[ashersky]

I read Galz's take on Faust as someone who's just unfamiliar with Faust.  Everything he said is basically just faust's Wikipedia page.

If anything, Faust is feeling town.  I think galz's read on Faust is honest, which deserves some Town points.

[pingpongsam]

I read Galz's take on Faust as someone who's just unfamiliar with Faust.  Everything he said is basically just faust's Wikipedia page.

If anything, Faust is feeling town.  I think galz's read on Faust is honest, which deserves some Town points.

Agree on all this. While you're on a roll care to elaborate on why you, yourself, are acting way outside your meta, especially your town meta? Town ashersky has a plan...

[faust]

The cool thing is that scum probably went for scum-beneficial PRs, so if there's a clear towny PR in a slot we know they must have selected, and they can't prove they have that PR, we've got them cornered.

Relevant anecdote: When the predecessor of this setup was run, mafia!ashersky went for the role "Mafia Cop" over some other role in the same slot that would have benefitted their team more because he felt that he had to choose the thing a townie would choose.

Also this made him a Mafia Mafia Cop, so maybe he was just being hilarious.

[faust]

This is not technically true; they'll know each other's bidding orders by now, at least within the mafia faction. Plus, I'm assuming bidding order doesn't flip with a player, meaning with the info scum has, they're more likely to be able to infer a named PR's bidding order than we are.

It's not technically true, but it's practically true. They can interchange each other's slots, but risking a counterclaim will pretty much always outweigh the benefits of claiming a place in bidding order that you don't actually have. At least until close to MyLo.

[ashersky]

I read Galz's take on Faust as someone who's just unfamiliar with Faust.  Everything he said is basically just faust's Wikipedia page.

If anything, Faust is feeling town.  I think galz's read on Faust is honest, which deserves some Town points.

Agree on all this. While you're on a roll care to elaborate on why you, yourself, are acting way outside your meta, especially your town meta? Town ashersky has a plan...

Honestly, I'm just super busy IRL and this game is a bear to keep up with.

As for plans -- I'm generally anti-claiming, as I think it gives scum (specifically mafia) way more benefit than town.  Like, someone's supposed preferred slot doesn't really give me any useful information about their alignment.  Scum won't claim the wrong slot, unless they are trying to out someone, and in a regular game there's no PR that I wouldn't trade for confirming scum.  Bidding order only tangentially matter to confirming likelihood of claims, which again, seems low utility.

With so many variables and players, there's not much expectation of a plan working or being followed.

So, no plan, other than read people, find scum, win MVP. 

[SpaceAnemone]

The cool thing is that scum probably went for scum-beneficial PRs, so if there's a clear towny PR in a slot we know they must have selected, and they can't prove they have that PR, we've got them cornered.

Relevant anecdote: When the predecessor of this setup was run, mafia!ashersky went for the role "Mafia Cop" over some other role in the same slot that would have benefitted their team more because he felt that he had to choose the thing a townie would choose.

Also this made him a Mafia Mafia Cop, so maybe he was just being hilarious.

Hehe :-) Which other players do you think would play like that, of this set, if they drew mafia? Is it enough that we ought to assume they're taking the safe strategy by default?

[faust]

The cool thing is that scum probably went for scum-beneficial PRs, so if there's a clear towny PR in a slot we know they must have selected, and they can't prove they have that PR, we've got them cornered.

Relevant anecdote: When the predecessor of this setup was run, mafia!ashersky went for the role "Mafia Cop" over some other role in the same slot that would have benefitted their team more because he felt that he had to choose the thing a townie would choose.

Also this made him a Mafia Mafia Cop, so maybe he was just being hilarious.

Hehe :-) Which other players do you think would play like that, of this set, if they drew mafia? Is it enough that we ought to assume they're taking the safe strategy by default?

This is a function of the slot options, the player, the slots of the partners, and the identity of the partners. I don't feel that I can make any statement about it that actually means anything.