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[O]

miss komen = sudgy?

[mcmcsalot]

I really dislike what o is doing, continually bringing up claiming things, and pushing the point that the first pr taken would obviously be a 2-shot vig is crazy. He's just pr hunting day one.

[Robz888]

Vote Count 1.5

LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone,
mcmcsalot (2): 2.71828..., gkrieg
2.71828 (2): AndrewisFTTW, Awaclus
ashersky (2): LaLight, iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): Eevee
J Reggie (2): JaketheBaseballGod22, Galzria
The_Wine_Merchant (5): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, sudgy
RoadRunner (2): O, Cuzz
sudgy (2): faust, The_Wine_Merchant

Not Voting (4): Calamitas, pingpongsam, RoadRunner, Jimmmm,

With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.

[Dylan32]

This might be the first time I've ever said this, but I actually think I agree with mcmc on that.

[O]

I really dislike what o is doing, continually bringing up claiming things, and pushing the point that the first pr taken would obviously be a 2-shot vig is crazy. He's just pr hunting day one.

Can you tangibly put into words what "pr hunting" actually means?

because nothing i've said is remotely going to cause anyone to claim. I don't have any intention of stopping the discussion until i see a compelling argument that isn't just "talking about the game in any substantial way is scum".

No. Talking about the game is pro-town. Presumably Mafia already have the opportunity to talk about the game in their QT. I'd like to even the playing field.

Plus, if I'm being honest, it's much more entertaining then the other stuff being written.

[O]

actually I don't think I've even brought up claiming things. I've brought up discussing the PRs, which is related to claiming things but not the same thing at all.

I've said repeatedly I don't want a massclaim.

[iguanaiguana]

O, I think some people fear that your constant discussing of PRs will trip some people up into revealing a small detail that seems harmless to them but is actually helpful for scum.

[O]

I have faith in you all if that's the case. We can do this! You're all excellent mafia players!

Scum start with an information advantage: on alignments, on roles, on potential distribution of roles. Refusing to discuss any of this helps scum maintain that advantage.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

O, I think some people fear that your constant discussing of PRs will trip some people up into revealing a small detail that seems harmless to them but is actually helpful for scum.

I thnk that is just as likely, or at least nearly as likely, as mafia stating something or feeling compelled to say something that might limit their claiming options in the future. Both sides stand to benefit. As O already said mafia is at an advantage in terms of knowing things.

[gkrieg13]

I have faith in you all if that's the case. We can do this! You're all excellent mafia players!

Scum start with an information advantage: on alignments, on roles, on potential distribution of roles. Refusing to discuss any of this helps scum maintain that advantage.

But with so many people alive, I don't really see the advantage about talking about that kind of stuff.  I mean sure there are slots that scum are much more likely to go for, but other than that, I don't really see the upside about talking about all this stuff.  I'm not sure it matters too much how the roles are distributed, and it is pretty easy to lie about as scum anyways.

Like mafia still doesn't know all the roles that exist, and they don't even really know much about the distribution of roles.  And even then, the only way that we could even the playing field is with a massclaim, which shouldn't happen.

[O]

But with so many people alive, I don't really see the advantage about talking about that kind of stuff.  I mean sure there are slots that scum are much more likely to go for, but other than that, I don't really see the upside about talking about all this stuff.  I'm not sure it matters too much how the roles are distributed, and it is pretty easy to lie about as scum anyways.

Like mafia still doesn't know all the roles that exist, and they don't even really know much about the distribution of roles.  And even then, the only way that we could even the playing field is with a massclaim, which shouldn't happen.

They know:

where their votes placed them on the ordering
what roles they have
what roles they don't have but are in the game because of slots already being taken

We can't "even the playing field" even with a massclaim, but we can get ourselves some iota of information.

I feel like it's all crazy talk here. I'm talking about just discussing the PRs out there and how the voting might have went and you're all going "massclaim bad" "we can't hunt PRs"

I'm not really proposing some revolutionary discussion, but the complete shutdown of discussion by most of the people here is really surprising to me.

Not scummy necessarily, just kinda weird and dissappointing and less interesting play.

[Roadrunner7671]

Come on guys, think about it. O has been gone for a while. He hasn't been privy to our fun conversations about what type of bread crumbing is cheating and what isn't. O is still living in 2012, where bussing was just becoming a thing. O is obviously the 2 shot vig.

[O]

Come on guys, think about it. O has been gone for a while. He hasn't been privy to our fun conversations about what type of bread crumbing is cheating and what isn't. O is still living in 2012, where bussing was just becoming a thing. O is obviously the 2 shot vig.

Bussing wasn't "just becoming a thing". My default scum strategy was to buss by default as hard as possible as frequently as possible. Won me MVIII pretty handily.

[O]

but yes i am the two shot vig.

[J Reggie]

To galz: I think the reason I did that gkrieg/pps thing was to get somewhere. There was a disagreement and I was taking a side, and sort of encouraging other people to take sides. Once something more interesting happened (in this case TWM being scummy and then getting scummier when people started accusing him) I forgot about it and moved on.

To O: talking about prs D1 is kind of pointless, unless you're a. an IC or b. about to be lynched and are a PR. And PR hunting is like scumhunting. You're not trying to get scum to claim, but you're looking for them to slip up and give up a hint at their role.

[J Reggie]

but yes i am the two shot vig.

Nice WIFOM though.

[Roadrunner7671]

Come on guys, think about it. O has been gone for a while. He hasn't been privy to our fun conversations about what type of bread crumbing is cheating and what isn't. O is still living in 2012, where bussing was just becoming a thing. O is obviously the 2 shot vig.

Bussing wasn't "just becoming a thing". My default scum strategy was to buss by default as hard as possible as frequently as possible. Won me MVIII pretty handily.

Yeah I know, I was gonna make a joke about you guys rubbing sticks together back then but I decided to make one that had to do with mafia.

[Roadrunner7671]

but yes i am the two shot vig.

Roadrunner7671 is a king.

[2.71828.....]

but yes i am the two shot vig.

That's exciting

[2.71828.....]

but yes i am the two shot vig.

Roadrunner7671 is a king.

Or just a provocateur?

[Roadrunner7671]

but yes i am the two shot vig.

Roadrunner7671 is a king.

Or just a provocateur?

That's a funny way to spell prophet

[2.71828.....]

but yes i am the two shot vig.

Roadrunner7671 is a king.

Or just a provocateur?

That's a funny way to spell prophet

I just saw him tell you what you wanted to hear.

[sudgy]

I don't get why OMGUS is such a bad thing. I have had good results from it.

And caught for the wrong reasons doesn't work. I mean, sure it can happen. But you can't rely on it. It is a fluke. How do you differentiate between scum caught for the wrong reasons and town being suspected for the wrong, or bad, reasons?

Show me that and give a rationale for it that can actually mean something and I'll give you the time of day. Until then it is just a bad justification for what is often a lazy vote to begin with.

It's usually way worse to scum for a scum player to die than to town for a town player to die.  So, scum will usually have a greater will to live than town.  Then, on top of it all, if you did nothing wrong and everybody hates you, of course you get frustrated.  Sure, town will get frustrated too, but not nearly as much as scum does.

Anyway, I think that any setup speculation is useless D1.  We don't have any information and can't really figure out anything because of that.  The only thing we get is possibly outed PRs.

[O]

I think most reactions are more based in "i'd like to keep playing this game", rather than "it's bad for me to die as scum" vs. "it's slightly less bad for me to die as town".

[sudgy]

I think most reactions are more based in "i'd like to keep playing this game", rather than "it's bad for me to die as scum" vs. "it's slightly less bad for me to die as town".

I'd like to keep playing, but I definitely would want to keep playing more as scum than as town.