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[Dylan32]

Which is to say that there's only 1 in 4 odds of a cop claim being a good idea.

In setup 5 and setup 6 it is good for them to claim. In the other two, it isn't awful

Definitely in 5 & 6. I can't really see how claiming in 2 or 3 would be good for town. You've obviously thought this through, care to explain?

My question is: is it worth it for the rolecop to claim.  Does the goodness of 5 and 6 outweigh the downsides of 2 and 3?

If we are in 6, scum would just kill the cop immediately wouldn't they? So is 6 actually good for us?

Oh wait, the watcher watches the cop and we lynch the scum that carried out the kill. nvm. Guaranteed dead scum D2 is actually not bad.

Although then I guess the watcher would die the next night, so losing PRs the first two nights with 1 scum left. I'm not sure if that would be worth it. Maybe, but I tend to think keeping the PRs around longer would be better.

PPE 1 ninjad

[gkrieg13]

The game will only last for 4 days anyway, and even that isn't super likely. So there aren't that many days for PRs to do anything. That's only 3 nights, and more likely 2 nights.

[AndrewisFTTW]

The game will only last for 4 days anyway, and even that isn't super likely. So there aren't that many days for PRs to do anything. That's only 3 nights, and more likely 2 nights.

That's true, I forgot it's a 9 player game. Why do you think only 2 nights though?

[gkrieg13]

The game will only last for 4 days anyway, and even that isn't super likely. So there aren't that many days for PRs to do anything. That's only 3 nights, and more likely 2 nights.

That's true, I forgot it's a 9 player game. Why do you think only 2 nights though?

I guess I'm thinking with a normal lynch/kill schedule, the max is 4 days, where the 4th day is 3-person LYLO.  The min is 2 days.  So 3 days is the middle...

So not really scientific, but I think it is still valid.

Also, about my opinion on it, I think it is a bigger upside in the 5 and 6 than it is a downside in 2 and 3.  In 2 and 3, the chance of the rolecop being blocked is not incredibly low, and the JK could still protect the rolecop either way, which makes the WIFOM between the JK and the scum RB interesting.  In setup 3, the doctor can still protect the rolecop, it's just that the JK doesn't know the doctor exists.

[AndrewisFTTW]

unvote

So essentially you think the RC should claim?

[gkrieg13]

unvote

So essentially you think the RC should claim?

Yes, that is what I'm getting at, I just wanted to see if anyone saw any craziness in my logic.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Well Hello everyone.

Griekg I guess that makes sense but I think It would be better for role cop(If there is) to claim D2 as to have more info at that point. D1 just seems to early to claim.

[gkrieg13]

Well Hello everyone.

Griekg I guess that makes sense but I think It would be better for role cop(If there is) to claim D2 as to have more info at that point. D1 just seems to early to claim.

I'm saying because it is a 75% chance of Follow the cop it would be a better idea to do it today.

[AndrewisFTTW]

There might not even be a RC. Well anyway I don't know. I'm really not a setup kinda guy so you guys go for it. I'll be here making stupid comments in the meantime.

[LaLight]

Hey everyone!

I have finally drawn town, believe it or not so i expect this game to be fun, so do not you fail me! Really, I am happy.
So, rolecop stuff: I actually don't think rolecop should claim (correct me if i am wrong) because the plan for everyone to say at the beginning of the day "if I were the rolecop I would blahblah" looks much better. That doesn't give the scum the setup info. For example, if someone claims the rolecop, scum knows there's no Dayvig and will decide things according to that

[LaLight]

wait, forget it, scum knows the setup lol

[LaLight]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

[gkrieg13]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

[LaLight]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

[AndrewisFTTW]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

[AndrewisFTTW]

And NOW I will resume the stupid comments.

Actually, I'm going to sleep. I expect two more pages of theory discussion that ultimately repeat what gkrieg stated in his first post when I wake up in the morning.

[LaLight]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

[Dylan32]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

If you look at the PM for the rolecop that schadd posted, it specifically says goon and vts will both give the result "vanilla" to the cop. So rc can't determine between vt and goon actually.  Which leads me to believe that in setup 6 scum would just ignore the cop if he claims and so if the watcher watched the cop, they would never see anything, because the cop is essentially useless in that setup except to be an IC and WIFOM watcher target.

[Dylan32]

In light of that, the odds of the rc actually IDing scum is actually pretty low (assuming even probabilities, not factoring in reads), and they will probably only get 2 nights of reads best case scenario. Even if they don't claim and aren't roleblocked if it is setup 2 or 3. So I tend to think the most significant aspect of this is actually more or less the IC factor with a slim chance of pretty high upside. I guess it comes down to whether the rc would want to gamble their survival to become an IC and rely on protection or take the normal risk of being the nk to stay hidden a day or so and see what they can find. I don't think I would blame them for either case, really.

[Joseph2302]

Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.

[SpaceAnemone]

Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.

You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.

I was wondering where my fellow Brit had gone, now that it's all daytime-y over here.

Poor time management is what leads to too much forum time, no?

[SpaceAnemone]

So, I think I have a scheme for the rolecop to be able to claim his results every day, but so that he is also able to hide.  This is important if the rolecop dies, people will be able to look at his results.  So, for this to work, at the beginning of every day, each person posts something to the effect of "if I were a rolecop, I would've investigated [person] and gotten [result]".  This way, scum can't know for sure who the rolecop is, but even if they die, their results will be meaningful.

This is interesting. There's a bit of a risk that scum could PoE the RC based on VTs giving implausible results. Maybe the expected game length is short enough not to make it too much of a risk, but it's kind of like certain VTs claiming "not a PR", which we'd usually think is kind of anti-town.

Though if I play with this idea for a minute, why limit it just to the RC? Why not have every player, at the start of every day, claim a result/action for every PR that might be in the game? That means everyone giving a RC result, a tracker result, a watcher result, a doctor target, and a JK target. I mean, on the one hand, it seems ridiculous, but on the other hand, it will make every player reveal real reads on trusted or suspicious players, which we can query, as well as recording game information to use for the good of town after a flip.

It's clearly anti-town not to give a valid list of thought-out targets with plausible results with that strategy, because if you say something cheeky/rushed, then scum pretty much assume you're a VT and go after the more valuable people. I'd just worry that it would actually take a fair amount of town self-discipline to achieve correctly, and that maybe even nine people is too many to cat-heard into playing along, when two of them are actively against us.

[Joseph2302]

Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.

You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P

But you're always bad.......

[SpaceAnemone]

Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.

You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P

But you're always bad.......

Hey, my play may be questionable sometimes, but I've almost never been scum!