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[gkrieg13]

While I expect major shifts over next week just a gut check on the living players (order is c&p of mod list)

GKrieg13 - null to town; expect big things in the next couple of days

Roadrunner7671 - null to town because of Jake and his meta, okay to lynch just for funnies tho

SpaceAnemone - null to scum, they are superb and looking towny and I think this could be the case; would lynch to see

McGarnacle - null to scum, still unsure about the claim but not going to lynch today as I think he can prove himself if he is what he says he is

Idontplaythisgame - null to scum, is this this game's lurker, nothing sticks out in my mind other than some Haddock style outrage and omgus in the early game, not opposed to a lynch at this point

Lekkit - town to scum, lol, no middle ground here. He says meta is overrated but lacking none makes him hard to read for me. Seems helpful like I would be if I were town. Would not lynch today.

Dylan32 - probably town

PingPongSam - so town it hurts

Robz888 - town to scum. Lean more towards town but I'm not null here, I can read scum or town into his play but there's no ho hum about it. Would not lynch today but if we mislynch again would consider it for tomorrow because I think he can drive us like that as scum.




Ok, so current pool to me is RR, SA, IDP in increasing order of preference although I hope and expect this to change once everyone gets engaged soon. Could easily be swayed on my town to scum not null reads.

Also from this I would guess that SA, IDPTG, or Robz were the people that targeted Dylan?

[gkrieg13]

Also we should massclaim today

Should we? Why? Assuming we don't just lose today, if we have more hidden PRs don't we want to protect them?

I think it is good to do with the knowledge that I just posted.

[Dylan32]

Also we should massclaim today

Should we? Why? Assuming we don't just lose today, if we have more hidden PRs don't we want to protect them?

I think it is good to do with the knowledge that I just posted.

I agree, I think the risks of losing another PR if there are any left are dwarfed by the information we could gain.

[Dylan32]

If we are going to do a mass claim, I propose this order:

0) EFHW - Obviously has claimed already, but I wouldn't mind EFHW reiterating all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important. probably not necessary and doesn't have to be first, but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.

1) Robz - because PPS seemed to imply you had targeted me

2) Gkrieg - because PPS thought you would be critical to the game and mentioned you in the same string of posts as when he was talking about me being targeted.

3) SA - way less active than our other game when they were town, feels like possible scum.  PPS was very suspicious of you also, not sure if that means anything or not.

4) IDPTG - major lurking, most posts are questions about acronyms and game info. Still doesn't have a defining moment that sticks out in my mind

5) RR - I don't even know what to think. I am leaning town, but to me seems slightly more likely to be hidden PR than:

6) Eevee - Haven't seen anything that implies PR but could be scum.

7) Me - Town

Obviously I'm willing to listen to critiques of the order, but I think that is a pretty solid order.

[SpaceAnemone]

I like the massclaim idea, but if EFHW goes first and spills everything up front, it's too much of a template for other scums to work from. I think we should find out who's claiming to have a role first, and only then examine the details in a more careful ordering (like maybe in stages, varying which of them goes first), so we're more likely to be able to find inconsistencies.

[gkrieg13]

I like the massclaim idea, but if EFHW goes first and spills everything up front, it's too much of a template for other scums to work from. I think we should find out who's claiming to have a role first, and only then examine the details in a more careful ordering (like maybe in stages, varying which of them goes first), so we're more likely to be able to find inconsistencies.

Woah woah woah. This is never ever ever something you want to do. Tell scum how many PRs there will be and then have them claim?  Uh no thanks. vote: SA

[gkrieg13]

If we are going to do a mass claim, I propose this order:

0) EFHW - Obviously has claimed already, but I wouldn't mind EFHW reiterating all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important. probably not necessary and doesn't have to be first, but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.

1) Robz - because PPS seemed to imply you had targeted me

2) Gkrieg - because PPS thought you would be critical to the game and mentioned you in the same string of posts as when he was talking about me being targeted.

3) SA - way less active than our other game when they were town, feels like possible scum.  PPS was very suspicious of you also, not sure if that means anything or not.

4) IDPTG - major lurking, most posts are questions about acronyms and game info. Still doesn't have a defining moment that sticks out in my mind

5) RR - I don't even know what to think. I am leaning town, but to me seems slightly more likely to be hidden PR than:

6) Eevee - Haven't seen anything that implies PR but could be scum.

7) Me - Town

Obviously I'm willing to listen to critiques of the order, but I think that is a pretty solid order.

I don't think that is what PPS was implying when he said I would be pivotal. Also the fact that he town read me means that he can't have seen me targeting you

[Dylan32]

If we are going to do a mass claim, I propose this order:

0) EFHW - Obviously has claimed already, but I wouldn't mind EFHW reiterating all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important. probably not necessary and doesn't have to be first, but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.

1) Robz - because PPS seemed to imply you had targeted me

2) Gkrieg - because PPS thought you would be critical to the game and mentioned you in the same string of posts as when he was talking about me being targeted.

3) SA - way less active than our other game when they were town, feels like possible scum.  PPS was very suspicious of you also, not sure if that means anything or not.

4) IDPTG - major lurking, most posts are questions about acronyms and game info. Still doesn't have a defining moment that sticks out in my mind

5) RR - I don't even know what to think. I am leaning town, but to me seems slightly more likely to be hidden PR than:

6) Eevee - Haven't seen anything that implies PR but could be scum.

7) Me - Town

Obviously I'm willing to listen to critiques of the order, but I think that is a pretty solid order.

I don't think that is what PPS was implying when he said I would be pivotal. Also the fact that he town read me means that he can't have seen me targeting you

I didn't say that was specifically what he was implying on you.  I should have included this, but having you that high was as much because of your interaction with Rob following PPS's comment.  I just thought it made sense for the two of you to be up top with the smallest chances of benefiting from other people going first just in case, since the two of you seem to be two of the more pivotal players left alive.  Also, I believe someone else did mention that PPS might have been breadcrumbing either Robz or you towards the end of D2, otherwise you being an option probably wouldn't have even crossed my mind.

[Roadrunner7671]

As a show of good faith, I am willing to go anywhere in the claim order without complaint.

[EFHW]

Also just realized that this pretty much ICs Dylan

Yes, I think so

Not following.

[EFHW]

No problem with going first, but I'll wait for a consensus about the order.

[EFHW]

gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy.  The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.

Having I been defending Eevee? I guess I have, yeah. Probably my enthusiasm to play with him again is making me give him too much of a pass. I should definitely re read him.

And yes I realize you could have been roleblocked but aren't we operating under the assumption scum PRs are similarly constrained as town PRs. So not only would scum have to have an RB, but they would also have to have one that could hit you. We have to weigh that possible but I think smaller chance against the more obvious narrative, you just being scum.

2/3 chance their roleblocker could hit me, assuming they have restrictions.  Not so small. 

Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me.  Are we going to have another go round? 

[Dylan32]

gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy.  The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.

Having I been defending Eevee? I guess I have, yeah. Probably my enthusiasm to play with him again is making me give him too much of a pass. I should definitely re read him.

And yes I realize you could have been roleblocked but aren't we operating under the assumption scum PRs are similarly constrained as town PRs. So not only would scum have to have an RB, but they would also have to have one that could hit you. We have to weigh that possible but I think smaller chance against the more obvious narrative, you just being scum.

2/3 chance their roleblocker could hit me, assuming they have restrictions.  Not so small. 

Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me.  Are we going to have another go round?

You will have to accept my apologies, but I have been pretty sure you and your predecessor are scum for a while, so I know they probably have a roleblocker. I also have reasons for thinking that's not what happened. Won't say more until after people claim.

[Dylan32]

gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy.  The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.

Having I been defending Eevee? I guess I have, yeah. Probably my enthusiasm to play with him again is making me give him too much of a pass. I should definitely re read him.

And yes I realize you could have been roleblocked but aren't we operating under the assumption scum PRs are similarly constrained as town PRs. So not only would scum have to have an RB, but they would also have to have one that could hit you. We have to weigh that possible but I think smaller chance against the more obvious narrative, you just being scum.

2/3 chance their roleblocker could hit me, assuming they have restrictions.  Not so small. 

Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me.  Are we going to have another go round?

You will have to accept my apologies, but I have been pretty sure you and your predecessor are scum for a while, so I know they probably have a roleblocker. I also have reasons for thinking that's not what happened. Won't say more until after people claim.

That didn't exactly make sense, sorry. I know they probably have a roleblocker, but due to my strong opinion that you are scum and other factors, I highly doubt that is what happened.

[SpaceAnemone]

I like the massclaim idea, but if EFHW goes first and spills everything up front, it's too much of a template for other scums to work from. I think we should find out who's claiming to have a role first, and only then examine the details in a more careful ordering (like maybe in stages, varying which of them goes first), so we're more likely to be able to find inconsistencies.

Woah woah woah. This is never ever ever something you want to do. Tell scum how many PRs there will be and then have them claim?  Uh no thanks. vote: SA

I think you're misunderstanding me. I mean we do a standard mass-claim, but without all the extra details that Dylan was suggesting that EFHW should give up-front. Dylan had suggested that EFHW should claim "all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important" right at the start of the mass claim -- that's clearly the wrong way to go about it.

We have such limited set-up information that we really have to make the most of every little bit, and I think keeping the details back and then getting people to claim them in other orders, so they can't just copy other claimed PRs is really sensible. We only get one shot at this, because once the information is out there, anyone can read it.

PPE several.

[Dylan32]

I like the massclaim idea, but if EFHW goes first and spills everything up front, it's too much of a template for other scums to work from. I think we should find out who's claiming to have a role first, and only then examine the details in a more careful ordering (like maybe in stages, varying which of them goes first), so we're more likely to be able to find inconsistencies.

Woah woah woah. This is never ever ever something you want to do. Tell scum how many PRs there will be and then have them claim?  Uh no thanks. vote: SA

I think you're misunderstanding me. I mean we do a standard mass-claim, but without all the extra details that Dylan was suggesting that EFHW should give up-front. Dylan had suggested that EFHW should claim "all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important" right at the start of the mass claim -- that's clearly the wrong way to go about it.

We have such limited set-up information that we really have to make the most of every little bit, and I think keeping the details back and then getting people to claim them in other orders, so they can't just copy other claimed PRs is really sensible. We only get one shot at this, because once the information is out there, anyone can read it.

PPE several.

Also note that I didn't say EFHW had to go first. I just listed her (correct pronoun right? if not, sorry!) first because she has to claim and I think she is scum.

[EFHW]

Actually, I'm not going to be able to post much until Sunday evening, so I'll claim now.  There's no new information such as Space was worried about. I'm the town doctor. I can only protect people with a different card type from mine. McG did indeed target RR N1.  I don't have any information about why, just the order itself.  He didn't type any thoughts in his qt. Last night I reread PPS and decided he was town and protected him.  Of course, I mainly expected that I would be the nk, but this way is working out much better for scum.

Questions?

[EFHW]

gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy.  The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.

Having I been defending Eevee? I guess I have, yeah. Probably my enthusiasm to play with him again is making me give him too much of a pass. I should definitely re read him.

And yes I realize you could have been roleblocked but aren't we operating under the assumption scum PRs are similarly constrained as town PRs. So not only would scum have to have an RB, but they would also have to have one that could hit you. We have to weigh that possible but I think smaller chance against the more obvious narrative, you just being scum.

2/3 chance their roleblocker could hit me, assuming they have restrictions.  Not so small. 

Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me.  Are we going to have another go round?

You will have to accept my apologies, but I have been pretty sure you and your predecessor are scum for a while, so I know they probably have a roleblocker. I also have reasons for thinking that's not what happened. Won't say more until after people claim.

I knew this would be a difficult gig. Interested to hear what you will have to say.

[EFHW]

Also, I don't think anyone should claim card types unless we have a specific reason to want to know.

[Eevee]

vla until tomorrow, haven't even read anything

[gkrieg13]

I like the massclaim idea, but if EFHW goes first and spills everything up front, it's too much of a template for other scums to work from. I think we should find out who's claiming to have a role first, and only then examine the details in a more careful ordering (like maybe in stages, varying which of them goes first), so we're more likely to be able to find inconsistencies.

Woah woah woah. This is never ever ever something you want to do. Tell scum how many PRs there will be and then have them claim?  Uh no thanks. vote: SA

I think you're misunderstanding me. I mean we do a standard mass-claim, but without all the extra details that Dylan was suggesting that EFHW should give up-front. Dylan had suggested that EFHW should claim "all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important" right at the start of the mass claim -- that's clearly the wrong way to go about it.

We have such limited set-up information that we really have to make the most of every little bit, and I think keeping the details back and then getting people to claim them in other orders, so they can't just copy other claimed PRs is really sensible. We only get one shot at this, because once the information is out there, anyone can read it.

PPE several.

When I'm at a computer again I'll elaborate. But maybe a vet will beat me to it. You always want the scummiest people to claim first. But claiming PR or not is always a bad way to go. If I'm a scum claiming watcher, I know after the PR claim who I can say I saw targeting someone. Obviously there are other cases of this. Being a role cop I could just claim to have targeted VTs etc.

[gkrieg13]

You always want people to claim everything they can in the assigned claim order once we agree on it so that scum can be caught in a lie easier.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

4) IDPTG - major lurking, most posts are questions about acronyms and game info. Still doesn't have a defining moment that sticks out in my mind

As I said towards the end of D2, I'm working on being more active. The lurking wasn't intentional.

If people want to massclaim, I'll go along. I mean, I already claimed so there's no new information about me.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I reread most of gkrieg (through 1154) and feel pretty convinced that he is town. He is so convinced that SA is not, that even though I reread them before and found them towny, I'll look for my notes and think about them some more.  gkrieg makes a good point about RR, which is his starting the wagon on Jake and pushing it later.  That is a more scum!RR thing to do, I think.

I wanted to vote RR but we decided that lynching the VLA person wasn't very nice. So I agree with the scum!RR argument.

PPE: 1

So who do you think EFHW's and RR's other partner is?

Given his flip, I'm willing to trust PPS and go with SA. As for my going after RR immediately, I'm irked that he got taken out the pool and we mislynched. My arguments from before as to why I think RR is scum haven't changed.

The more I write about that, the less based in reason it's sounding. I'll try to organize something to make this less gut-feel-based.

[Eevee]

Catching up! Uh oh.

I protected PPS and he died anyway!

So, EHFW is truthful and scum has strongman or something like that (believable, since in that scenario town also has cop + doctor + watcher), or this was a planned lie (scum wanted to kill PPS, and EFHW knew she was supposed to protect him so they went this route knowing its believable).