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Author Topic: Kru5h's card ideas  (Read 120879 times)

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majiponi

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #300 on: August 06, 2018, 11:11:30 am »
0

Quote
Judge/Courthouse
Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)
This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Judge on top, then 6 copies of Courthouse.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Judge
Action - Reserve, $6
Put this on your Tavern mat.
---
When the game ends, you may call one Judge to take an extra turn after this one in which you cannot play Judges. Resolve multiple Judge calls in turn order, starting with the next player.

Quote
Courthouse
Victory, $10
6VP

I play a Herald to reveal Judge. Do I play it?

I think eventually Donald said that there is an implicit "can't overrides can" rule; so you just wouldn't play it.

However, there's no reason to restrict the playing of judges here. There wouldn't be any opportunity to ever call them again, so who cares if you play them?

Also, I don't like that the pile has 8/12 cards; a pile's type defined by it's top/cheaper card, so this pile should be an action-reserve pile; thus getting 10 cards like normal.

Plus, except in a 6 player game; I don't see how Courthouse will ever be available. Players have basically no reason to ever buy more than 1 Judge.

Herald just says "play it", mandatory. No "may". So I asked.

I don't buy this. Suppose your right player buys the last province, and a single Judge is left. Do you call Judge?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #301 on: August 06, 2018, 11:50:22 am »
0

Quote
Judge/Courthouse
Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)
This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Judge on top, then 6 copies of Courthouse.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Judge
Action - Reserve, $6
Put this on your Tavern mat.
---
When the game ends, you may call one Judge to take an extra turn after this one in which you cannot play Judges. Resolve multiple Judge calls in turn order, starting with the next player.

Quote
Courthouse
Victory, $10
6VP

I play a Herald to reveal Judge. Do I play it?

I think eventually Donald said that there is an implicit "can't overrides can" rule; so you just wouldn't play it.

However, there's no reason to restrict the playing of judges here. There wouldn't be any opportunity to ever call them again, so who cares if you play them?

Also, I don't like that the pile has 8/12 cards; a pile's type defined by it's top/cheaper card, so this pile should be an action-reserve pile; thus getting 10 cards like normal.

Plus, except in a 6 player game; I don't see how Courthouse will ever be available. Players have basically no reason to ever buy more than 1 Judge.

Herald just says "play it", mandatory. No "may". So I asked.


I should have said "can't overrides do" instead. If you are instructed to do something impossible, you don't do it. And it is impossible due to the text saying that it can't be done.

Quote
I don't buy this. Suppose your right player buys the last province, and a single Judge is left. Do you call Judge?

Not sure what you mean. You would always call your Judge, because you should still get at least some extra points with an extra turn. But I don't see why there would ever be only a single Judge left; why would a player ever buy more than 1 Judge?
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Asper

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #302 on: August 06, 2018, 12:40:02 pm »
0

"If this turn isn't an extra turn, put this on your Tavern Mat."
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #303 on: August 06, 2018, 12:41:59 pm »
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"If this turn isn't an extra turn, put this on your Tavern Mat."

That technically works, but seems silly to exclude Outpost, Possession, and Mission turns. And moreso... I still haven't heard any explanation for why this restriction is needed at all? Who cares if you can put it on your Tavern Mat during your extra turn. You'll never have a chance to call it. Am I missing something?
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Asper

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #304 on: August 06, 2018, 12:50:03 pm »
0

"If this turn isn't an extra turn, put this on your Tavern Mat."

That technically works, but seems silly to exclude Outpost, Possession, and Mission turns. And moreso... I still haven't heard any explanation for why this restriction is needed at all? Who cares if you can put it on your Tavern Mat during your extra turn. You'll never have a chance to call it. Am I missing something?

I guess with the current wording you could argue that a Judge played during such a turn could be called immediately, as the game is still ending? Perhaps you can change it to be "The first time the game ending condition is fullfilled at the end of a turn..." similar to Mountain Pass.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #305 on: August 06, 2018, 01:03:47 pm »
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"If this turn isn't an extra turn, put this on your Tavern Mat."

That technically works, but seems silly to exclude Outpost, Possession, and Mission turns. And moreso... I still haven't heard any explanation for why this restriction is needed at all? Who cares if you can put it on your Tavern Mat during your extra turn. You'll never have a chance to call it. Am I missing something?

I guess with the current wording you could argue that a Judge played during such a turn could be called immediately, as the game is still ending? Perhaps you can change it to be "The first time the game ending condition is fullfilled at the end of a turn..." similar to Mountain Pass.

I guess I can see that you could argue that taking the extra turn is akin to drawing as a result of trashing Overgrown Estate, where you can continue to react to that trashing event after having finished your card draw (thus discarding a newly drawn Market Square if you want).

If this is the case, the solution seems to make it more like Distant Lands... not something you ever call, just something that happens:

Quote
When the game ends, if you have at least 1 Judge on your Tavern Mat, take an extra turn.

The wording on Embargo should be sufficient to tell us that this things doesn't happen for each Judge on your Tavern Mat, even though you could try to argue that if read completely literally.

In any case, the issue still remains that there's no reason to buy more than 1 Judge; and thus no reason for it to be a split pile.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 01:05:17 pm by GendoIkari »
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #306 on: August 06, 2018, 02:07:27 pm »
0

Okay. I give up on Judge.

Although, the intent was that you can play multiple judges, you can only play them one at a time, though. Once the game ends again, you can play another judge. The intent was to make it so that you make sure that each person with a judge doesn't get multiple turns in a row and they are evenly distributed, but that's really hard to word.

GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #307 on: August 06, 2018, 03:45:13 pm »
+1

Okay. I give up on Judge.

Although, the intent was that you can play multiple judges, you can only play them one at a time, though. Once the game ends again, you can play another judge. The intent was to make it so that you make sure that each person with a judge doesn't get multiple turns in a row and they are evenly distributed, but that's really hard to word.


Aaaah, I see. Yeah, I don't think it's right at all to think of "when the game ends" as happening again, after your extra turn. The game already ended; you're doing post-game stuff (that still can affect your score).

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Holunder9

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #308 on: August 06, 2018, 08:05:28 pm »
+1

Okay. I give up on Judge.

Although, the intent was that you can play multiple judges, you can only play them one at a time, though. Once the game ends again, you can play another judge. The intent was to make it so that you make sure that each person with a judge doesn't get multiple turns in a row and they are evenly distributed, but that's really hard to word.
I don't think that Judgeis unsound. It is only good in an engine and if the other folks play money you might not be able to gain all Judges to unlock the green underneath. This is a nice little interactive minigame, you got basic split pile synergy and it will probably be quite interesting to plan for some extra moves.
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #309 on: August 06, 2018, 08:43:54 pm »
0

Quote
Judge Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, if you have this set aside face-up, you may turn it face-down to take an extra turn after the current player in which you cannot gain Judges. If multiple players react with a Judge, go in turn order, one extra turn at a time, starting with the player to play next. (When the game ends again, you may react with another Judge.)

Got rid of the Tavern mat because I hate them.

Edit: Now I just need to make the wording shorter. Oof.

Edit 2: There's still the problem of what to buy? If all the Provinces are out and you have no +buys, then you're paying 6 for a chance of gaining a Duchy when you should've just bought a Duchy. Should I make this a split pile that has Victory cards underneath?

Quote
Judge Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, if you have this set aside face-up, you may turn it face-down to take an extra turn after the current player in which you can't gain Judges. Extra turns go in turn order, one at a time, starting with the next player.

Edit 3: 55 Words?

Quote
Judge Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, if you have this set aside face-up, you may turn it face-down to take an extra turn after this one in which you can't gain Judges. Go in turn order, starting with the next player.

Edit 4: Is this too short to be clear? Also, I might rename it to be "Lawyer."

Edit 5: There's a minor problem with this in that if a card gains it to the top of your deck (or hand) it doesn't get set aside. I'm just going to ignore that instead of adding any extra wording. Don't gain this with an Armory, Artificer, Develop, Graverobber, or Cobbler.

Quote
Lawyer/Courthouse Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)

This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Lawyer on top, then 6 copies of Courthouse.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Lawyer Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, if you have this set aside face-up, you may turn it face-down to take an extra turn after this one in which you can't gain Lawyers. Go in turn order, starting with the next player.

Quote
Courthouse Victory,
4
---
When you gain this, set it aside.

The idea here is it's useful if Duchies are out or if Provinces are out, since it's halfway between, but slightly overpriced as a penalty for being behind.

Quote
Lawyer Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, if you have this set aside face-up, you may turn it face-down to take an extra turn after this one (in turn order) in which you can't gain Lawyers.

Edited again above. Now that I've shaved off a few words, I can probably fit in some more edge-case wording if needed.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 10:45:50 pm by kru5h »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #310 on: August 06, 2018, 10:06:13 pm »
0

I feel like all of those still have clunky wording; and a confusing rules issue about the idea of the game "ending" again after a Judge turn. Not that I have a helpful suggestion of a better wording to accomplish what you want.
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #311 on: August 07, 2018, 12:11:24 am »
0

Maybe it should be limited to one extra turn and not a split pile.

Quote
Lawyer Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, if you have this set aside, you may discard one Lawyer to take one extra turn after the end of the game (in turn order).

This is less obnoxious, less confusing, and less wordy.

Feels kinda bad to have a card in the supply that only 2 or 3 copies of will be bought, though.

How about this:

Quote
Deity Victory,
Worth 6 if gained after the end of the game (otherwise worth 0.)
---
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, each player with any Deities set aside takes one extra turn (in turn order).

Interestingly, this can actually shorten the game in cases where it causes you to ignore the penultimate Province rule.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 02:42:24 am by kru5h »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #312 on: August 07, 2018, 11:44:41 am »
0

Quote
Cooper Action - Reserve,
+2 Cards
+1 Action

Put this on your Tavern Mat.
--
At the start of your turn, you may call this to discard a card.
This is probably only a bit worse than Fugitive and seems like a good 4 to me.
I'd like to point out that Asper's Hunter is a less vanilla-ish and more interesting implementation of a Reserve non-terminal draw that can be called at a cost.

I would like to disagree with this almost-year-old post. Often simpler is better, as long as it plays in an interesting way. This version of Cooper seems quite interesting to me. You normally can't call too many off your mat on one turn or you won't be able to do much. Combos with draw-to-X.

I think Hunter is a fine card too, but I think I prefer this one.
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Kudasai

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #313 on: August 07, 2018, 03:21:09 pm »
0

Maybe it should be limited to one extra turn and not a split pile.

Quote
Lawyer Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, if you have this set aside, you may discard one Lawyer to take one extra turn after the end of the game (in turn order).

This is less obnoxious, less confusing, and less wordy.

Feels kinda bad to have a card in the supply that only 2 or 3 copies of will be bought, though.

Maybe extra Lawyers give you bonuses on your extra, post-game turn? Extra cards, buys, actions, etc? This would also be an amazing opportunity to make the bonuses dependent on how much of something you have in your deck. This is something you normally could not do, but as the game has "ended" you could technically look at your cards. You would however have to reshuffle in order to play your post-game turn. Would also be tricky getting the wording right.

I made a mock-up illustrating how the wording can be implemented. I know you're against Reserve cards, but this would have to use a mat to work correctly (as cards on mats do not automatically get picked up at the end of the game). It also does not address the issue of turn order, but maybe that's best saved for an expanded rules section. Anyways, all bonuses and what triggers the bonuses could be anything. Just used some generic stuff as an example.



If you go the split-pile route, the bottom Victory card could also do some cool stuff at the end of the game, like gaining powerful cards for your last turn. Would make for a cool interaction with the above card.

Well, hopefully I'm not imposing on your creative space here. I just really like the concept you came up with and wanna help in any way. Take and leave any of it!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 03:44:55 pm by Kudasai »
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #314 on: August 07, 2018, 08:25:32 pm »
0

Quote
Cooper Action - Reserve,
+2 Cards
+1 Action

Put this on your Tavern Mat.
--
At the start of your turn, you may call this to discard a card.
This is probably only a bit worse than Fugitive and seems like a good 4 to me.
I'd like to point out that Asper's Hunter is a less vanilla-ish and more interesting implementation of a Reserve non-terminal draw that can be called at a cost.

I would like to disagree with this almost-year-old post. Often simpler is better, as long as it plays in an interesting way. This version of Cooper seems quite interesting to me. You normally can't call too many off your mat on one turn or you won't be able to do much. Combos with draw-to-X.

I think Hunter is a fine card too, but I think I prefer this one.

It's an alright card (could be reworded to be less confusing), but I hate Tavern mats.  That's really my only problem with it. Maybe slightly boring.

Maybe it should be limited to one extra turn and not a split pile.

Quote
Lawyer Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, if you have this set aside, you may discard one Lawyer to take one extra turn after the end of the game (in turn order).

This is less obnoxious, less confusing, and less wordy.

Feels kinda bad to have a card in the supply that only 2 or 3 copies of will be bought, though.

Maybe extra Lawyers give you bonuses on your extra, post-game turn? Extra cards, buys, actions, etc? This would also be an amazing opportunity to make the bonuses dependent on how much of something you have in your deck. This is something you normally could not do, but as the game has "ended" you could technically look at your cards. You would however have to reshuffle in order to play your post-game turn. Would also be tricky getting the wording right.

I made a mock-up illustrating how the wording can be implemented. I know you're against Reserve cards, but this would have to use a mat to work correctly (as cards on mats do not automatically get picked up at the end of the game). It also does not address the issue of turn order, but maybe that's best saved for an expanded rules section. Anyways, all bonuses and what triggers the bonuses could be anything. Just used some generic stuff as an example.



If you go the split-pile route, the bottom Victory card could also do some cool stuff at the end of the game, like gaining powerful cards for your last turn. Would make for a cool interaction with the above card.

Well, hopefully I'm not imposing on your creative space here. I just really like the concept you came up with and wanna help in any way. Take and leave any of it!

You're not imposing at all.

I like the sentiment that it should be a special turn, but wording is such a mess right now. I'm going to go my own way on this one and hopefully it works out. Feel free to make your own variants of my variants.

Quote
Judge/Courthouse Reaction - Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)

This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Judge on top, then 6 copies of Courthouse.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Judge Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, trash all Judges from the Supply and each player with any Judges set aside takes one extra turn (continuing turn order.)

Quote
Courthouse Victory,
7
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 08:58:37 pm by kru5h »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #315 on: August 08, 2018, 11:15:44 am »
+1

Quote
Judge/Courthouse Reaction - Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)

This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Judge on top, then 6 copies of Courthouse.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Judge Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, trash all Judges from the Supply and each player with any Judges set aside takes one extra turn (continuing turn order.)

Quote
Courthouse Victory,
7

This is probably my favorite of the versions. No awkward wording needed to prevent users from gaining infinite turns. Yes, it has the problem that there's not a good reason to buy multiple judges... actually, why does it gain to set-aside land? Why not make it a regular action, that you have to play to set it aside? I think that gives multiple benefits:

1) Eliminates weird stuff when gaining with Armory or using Watchtower reactions.
2) Gives a reason to buy more than 1. Not a big reason, but if you think that the game will end before your next shuffle, it is important to ensure that you actually draw this before the game ends, so you might buy 2 of them to increase your chances.
3) Makes it a more interesting decision whether to buy it or not, and when to buy it. I don't like the idea of just buying one on the turn that you end the game in order to get an extra turn right away.

Also, one thing I disagree with is the randomizer card and rules. For all other multi-type piles, the randomizer matches the top card. So the randomizer should be just "reaction" (or action-reaction if you do it that way). And the pile should contain 10 cards, because it is an action supply pile. There's even a specific precedent of a pile containing a victory card but not being treated as a victory pile, in Knights.

*Edit* In terms of the action-reaction option.. if you're worried about confusion about what happens when you play a Judge during your post-game turn (though I think it should be clear that the game has already ended and won't end again after that turn), then simply add "if the game has not ended, set this aside".
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 11:34:49 am by GendoIkari »
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Asper

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #316 on: August 08, 2018, 12:57:44 pm »
+2

I reaaaally think they should stack. Also, if you intend to always uncover the Courthouse as the game ends, and Judges happen on buy, just make it an Event. This way, everybody can see the instructions at all times:

Process, Event, 6
Take a Process Token.
---
When the game ends, remove this and add the Courthouse pile to the supply. Players who have Process tokens continue playing, skipping players without tokens, paying a token each on their turns, until no player has any Process tokens.
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #317 on: August 08, 2018, 08:24:05 pm »
0

Quote
Judge/Courthouse Reaction - Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)

This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Judge on top, then 6 copies of Courthouse.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Judge Reaction,
When you gain this, set it aside.
---
When the game ends, trash all Judges from the Supply and each player with any Judges set aside takes one extra turn (continuing turn order.)

Quote
Courthouse Victory,
7

This is probably my favorite of the versions. No awkward wording needed to prevent users from gaining infinite turns. Yes, it has the problem that there's not a good reason to buy multiple judges... actually, why does it gain to set-aside land? Why not make it a regular action, that you have to play to set it aside? I think that gives multiple benefits:

1) Eliminates weird stuff when gaining with Armory or using Watchtower reactions.
2) Gives a reason to buy more than 1. Not a big reason, but if you think that the game will end before your next shuffle, it is important to ensure that you actually draw this before the game ends, so you might buy 2 of them to increase your chances.
3) Makes it a more interesting decision whether to buy it or not, and when to buy it. I don't like the idea of just buying one on the turn that you end the game in order to get an extra turn right away.

Also, one thing I disagree with is the randomizer card and rules. For all other multi-type piles, the randomizer matches the top card. So the randomizer should be just "reaction" (or action-reaction if you do it that way). And the pile should contain 10 cards, because it is an action supply pile. There's even a specific precedent of a pile containing a victory card but not being treated as a victory pile, in Knights.

*Edit* In terms of the action-reaction option.. if you're worried about confusion about what happens when you play a Judge during your post-game turn (though I think it should be clear that the game has already ended and won't end again after that turn), then simply add "if the game has not ended, set this aside".

I agree. I originally wanted a reaction-only because I thought it would be a clever, but it's just awkward.

As far as the Victory-Split, I'm going to keep it how it is, ignoring precedent. Occasionally I play 6-player games (I hate it, but my friends want to do it when we have too many people) and I want 6 of each card in every split pile I do. I once played a 6-player game with Catapult. Everybody was cleaning up their decks except one player who couldn't buy a Catapult when they were out. Imagine a 6-player game with Fortune. There are only 5 of them. Completely unfair. I wish Donald had done 6 of each for split piles from the start.

Quote
Judge/Courthouse Action - Reaction - Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)

This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Judge on top, then 6 copies of Courthouse.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Judge Action - Reaction,
Set this aside.
---
When the game ends for the first time, trash all Judges from the Supply and each player with any Judges set aside takes one extra turn, continuing in turn order.

Quote
Courthouse Victory,
7
---
You can't buy this unless the game has ended.

I reaaaally think they should stack. Also, if you intend to always uncover the Courthouse as the game ends, and Judges happen on buy, just make it an Event. This way, everybody can see the instructions at all times:

Process, Event, 6
Take a Process Token.
---
When the game ends, remove this and add the Courthouse pile to the supply. Players who have Process tokens continue playing, skipping players without tokens, paying a token each on their turns, until no player has any Process tokens.

The event idea is good, but I don't really like it for some reason. Can't put my finger on it. I generally try to avoid mats, tokens, and extra cards unless I really love an idea (Like Jinx tokens for Caltrops.)

As far as it stacking, I dislike stacking for the simple reason that I don't want to sit around for 4 turns while somebody else plays the game and tries to catch up. It's far less obnoxious of an ending if there's one special turn. It's also much easier to word.

Asper

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #318 on: August 09, 2018, 03:30:49 am »
+1

If they are really not supposed to stack, cards make even less sense. I suggest a "Once per game" event.

Quote
Process,Event, 6
Once per game: Take a Process Token.
---
When the game ends, add the Courthouse pile to the supply and each player with a Process Token takes an extra turn.

It's just so, so much cleaner.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #319 on: August 09, 2018, 09:32:26 am »
0

If they are really not supposed to stack, cards make even less sense. I suggest a "Once per game" event.

Quote
Process,Event, 6
Once per game: Take a Process Token.
---
When the game ends, add the Courthouse pile to the supply and each player with a Process Token takes an extra turn.

It's just so, so much cleaner.

It is clean, but I feel like it's too easy/good. Of course you buy this event; everyone does. Trade a turn (or a leftover towards the end of the game into an extra turn at the end to do whatever you want (maybe Provinces are gone, but even without Courthouses you'll get some points). That's why I like the action version, because like Distant Lands, you have to figure out how late you can get away with buying it, and then also have to give up a card/action on a turn to play it.
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Asper

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #320 on: August 09, 2018, 12:49:20 pm »
+2

If they are really not supposed to stack, cards make even less sense. I suggest a "Once per game" event.

Quote
Process,Event, 6
Once per game: Take a Process Token.
---
When the game ends, add the Courthouse pile to the supply and each player with a Process Token takes an extra turn.

It's just so, so much cleaner.

It is clean, but I feel like it's too easy/good. Of course you buy this event; everyone does. Trade a turn (or a leftover towards the end of the game into an extra turn at the end to do whatever you want (maybe Provinces are gone, but even without Courthouses you'll get some points). That's why I like the action version, because like Distant Lands, you have to figure out how late you can get away with buying it, and then also have to give up a card/action on a turn to play it.

I really don't think it's this clear you're going to buy this, and even if it was, I think there are lots of mistakes you can make here. Sure, you get a turn, but you also lose a turn. The turn you get is going to be a turn where your deck has all the good cards you want, but it's also a turn where your deck is full of green. The turn you forego could have been a Lab, a Goons, a Witch, if this happens early. Later on, it could have been a Duchy. Sure, no Duchy to clog your deck, but at least you know you'll have that Duchy. In your extra turn, you might as well stall for all you know.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #321 on: August 09, 2018, 03:54:34 pm »
0

If they are really not supposed to stack, cards make even less sense. I suggest a "Once per game" event.

Quote
Process,Event, 6
Once per game: Take a Process Token.
---
When the game ends, add the Courthouse pile to the supply and each player with a Process Token takes an extra turn.

It's just so, so much cleaner.

It is clean, but I feel like it's too easy/good. Of course you buy this event; everyone does. Trade a turn (or a leftover towards the end of the game into an extra turn at the end to do whatever you want (maybe Provinces are gone, but even without Courthouses you'll get some points). That's why I like the action version, because like Distant Lands, you have to figure out how late you can get away with buying it, and then also have to give up a card/action on a turn to play it.

I really don't think it's this clear you're going to buy this, and even if it was, I think there are lots of mistakes you can make here. Sure, you get a turn, but you also lose a turn. The turn you get is going to be a turn where your deck has all the good cards you want, but it's also a turn where your deck is full of green. The turn you forego could have been a Lab, a Goons, a Witch, if this happens early. Later on, it could have been a Duchy. Sure, no Duchy to clog your deck, but at least you know you'll have that Duchy. In your extra turn, you might as well stall for all you know.

I think I'm convinced. I mean, you definitely don't buy it early. If it's a decent engine you'll buy it with an extra buy; not as your regular main buy. Where it becomes interesting is when you buy it on the same turn that you end the game. Assuming perfect score tracking, you normally never end the game unless you're winning... but this gives an extra option to end the game while a little behind, and hope that your extra turn is good enough (or better than your opponent's extra turn, if they bought one also).
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Kudasai

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #322 on: August 09, 2018, 04:49:57 pm »
0

The "Game End" seems to be three phases:
(1) Start of Game End.
(2) Take all cards (minus cards on mats if not specified to take).
(3) Scoring.

Since your current version is set aside and will get pulled at phase (2), should you have to specify the condition as being "At the start of Game End" or "At the start of the end of the game"?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 04:54:41 pm by Kudasai »
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Holunder9

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #323 on: August 09, 2018, 05:07:53 pm »
0

Not sure about Process, seems too good.
With money you will likely go for the Gold/Duchy in the endgame but in a well-running engine that doesn't need any components anymore it is a no-brainer. If the engine has the potential to buy more than a Duchy this event only competes with Duchy when you hit $6 in the endgame. So unless Duchies are about to go out before the game ends, Process it is.

It is kinda like all those expensive Adventure events, they are virtually always good. Hireling or Prince on the other hand, when you have to wait a shuffle, draw the card (respectively, in the case of Prince, cards) and spend the Action, are less cwazy.

I think this becomes most clear when you consider an exploding megaturn engine. You get a big finale, buy Process Process get another big finale. Epic stuff!
The card version on the other hand is trickier to execute. Competes with that extra Bridge Troll and requires you to anticipate the end of the game and judge the drawing power of your deck well enough.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #324 on: August 09, 2018, 05:45:44 pm »
0

The "Game End" seems to be three phases:
(1) Start of Game End.
(2) Take all cards (minus cards on mats if not specified to take).
(3) Scoring.

Since your current version is set aside and will get pulled at phase (2), should you have to specify the condition as being "At the start of Game End" or "At the start of the end of the game"?

I don't think this is correct. I don't think cards are "pulled"; Distant Lands shows us that cards remember where they were when the game ended, and there seems to be a general rule (written or not) that all cards that are yours count as part of your deck for the purposes of Gardens, etc. The fact Island says "returned to your deck" really has no rules meaning at all; given that cards like Haven don't have this same wording, but still work exactly the same.
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