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Author Topic: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee  (Read 156027 times)

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Seprix

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #125 on: June 18, 2016, 09:36:20 pm »
+2

Ritual is fine, what's wrong with Ritual? They can't be all the best video game reenactment ever.
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Willvon

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #126 on: June 18, 2016, 10:29:16 pm »
+1

I'm starting to disagree a lot with your rankings :P. The last few cards you ranked DEFIENETLY deserve to be way higher. Where is Junk Dealer? That art is miles worse than anything in group X. IMO you should judge more about the quality of the art itself.

Have you seen the hi-res version of Junk Dealer?  It is so much better than I thought from just looking at the card.
http://www.kmistudio.com/blog/index.php/gallery/image_full/337/
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Seprix

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #127 on: June 18, 2016, 10:30:36 pm »
+4

I hate crappy 3D art.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #128 on: June 18, 2016, 11:35:01 pm »
+5

I'm starting to disagree a lot with your rankings :P. The last few cards you ranked DEFIENETLY deserve to be way higher. Where is Junk Dealer? That art is miles worse than anything in group X. IMO you should judge more about the quality of the art itself.

I would like to take this opportunity to post some notes about the process as I view it now that we are a few groups in.

The 'your' in the rankings is a plural you. I've found that if anyone one of the four of us really liked or disliked a piece of art comparative to the others, it would seriously skew the group it ended up in. That was somewhat by design. However, as we are going through the groups, I can't sometimes get coherent comments about why a piece of art was liked more or less than other pieces of art. It's possible as we ground through all these cards rating them one by one, that not all of the art got equal consideration or that view of one card might be affected by what other cards are near it alphabetically.

I see that the cards that are at the bottom of any particular group are usually the worst cards in that group and that as we approach the end of the group, we are getting some cards that seem to have been skewed by one or two unusual evaluations. There are some things, in retrospect, I could have done to mitigate the issue. However, it would have been time consuming. I currently am having a hard enough time getting my daughters together to comment and put in order 15 cards at a time. I don't think they would have been willing to spend more time on it for better rankings. Also, now that I have ranked some of the cards on my method, I feel I ought to see it through without changing the rules in the middle.

Disagreement is a natural result of this type of effort. I can tell you from what I have seen about where cards are falling in the groups, it's going to get worse before it gets better.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 11:36:50 pm by jamfamsam »
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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #129 on: June 19, 2016, 01:32:37 am »
+3

I'm starting to disagree a lot with your rankings :P. The last few cards you ranked DEFIENETLY deserve to be way higher. Where is Junk Dealer? That art is miles worse than anything in group X. IMO you should judge more about the quality of the art itself.

Have you seen the hi-res version of Junk Dealer?  It is so much better than I thought from just looking at the card.
http://www.kmistudio.com/blog/index.php/gallery/image_full/337/

Why the hell are they building a tesseract on the Rebuild art?
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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #130 on: June 19, 2016, 10:48:28 am »
0

#340 - Plan



It's weird that just his face is all washed out. The other people in the picture seem to have a normal level of detail. It looks like his hair is made of the same material as the tent.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #131 on: June 19, 2016, 10:50:21 am »
+5

#339 - Develop



Why is this guy talking to a statue? I don't think I would build out in that wasteland. The shapes of the sand dunes are funky and make the picture look weird.

The shape of the tower is questionable at best but I won't go into any further detail.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #132 on: June 19, 2016, 10:54:22 am »
+1

#338 - Salvager



My girls thought that it was Botox boy returning from Pearl Diver but with more of a potato face.

Dissenting opinion: I like this art. I rated it slightly above average. I like the underwater feel. I think it got a raw deal being this low.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #133 on: June 19, 2016, 10:57:46 am »
0

#337 - Farmers' Market



Perhaps the market is just opening since it isn't very busy. We have a pile of white rocks there and what is the red stuff in the corner? The way the landscape slants is weird.

Dissenting opinion: This is another card rated low by all three girls but that I thought was much better than group X. Besides the slant I like this art.

That is the end of group X.
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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #134 on: June 19, 2016, 12:46:48 pm »
+5

The shape of the tower is questionable at best but I won't go into any further detail.

EDIT: Man, just remembered that jamsamfam's daughters might read this. I deleted the link to a certain thread discussing this very thing.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 09:49:52 pm by pacovf »
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Willvon

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #135 on: June 19, 2016, 04:39:03 pm »
+4

I'm starting to disagree a lot with your rankings :P. The last few cards you ranked DEFIENETLY deserve to be way higher. Where is Junk Dealer? That art is miles worse than anything in group X. IMO you should judge more about the quality of the art itself.

I would like to take this opportunity to post some notes about the process as I view it now that we are a few groups in.

The 'your' in the rankings is a plural you. I've found that if anyone one of the four of us really liked or disliked a piece of art comparative to the others, it would seriously skew the group it ended up in. That was somewhat by design. However, as we are going through the groups, I can't sometimes get coherent comments about why a piece of art was liked more or less than other pieces of art. It's possible as we ground through all these cards rating them one by one, that not all of the art got equal consideration or that view of one card might be affected by what other cards are near it alphabetically.

I see that the cards that are at the bottom of any particular group are usually the worst cards in that group and that as we approach the end of the group, we are getting some cards that seem to have been skewed by one or two unusual evaluations. There are some things, in retrospect, I could have done to mitigate the issue. However, it would have been time consuming. I currently am having a hard enough time getting my daughters together to comment and put in order 15 cards at a time. I don't think they would have been willing to spend more time on it for better rankings. Also, now that I have ranked some of the cards on my method, I feel I ought to see it through without changing the rules in the middle.

Disagreement is a natural result of this type of effort. I can tell you from what I have seen about where cards are falling in the groups, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I personally do not agree with all of the card choices. The fact is though that as jamfamsam states: "Disagreement is a natural result of this type of effort." This thread was not presented as being the judgment of professional art critics. It is a man and 3 teenage daughters spending some time together making a list of which card's art they like and which they don't. To take over 350 images and put them in some kind of order of preference is quite a daunting task. Any of us who are no longer teenagers certainly realize that our tastes as adults differ from when we were teens. On top of that, the fact that people will pay thousands of dollars for artworks that many others wouldn't even want to hang in their bathrooms shows how greatly opinions on art can differ. These girls are taking time from other things that I am sure they would prefer to be doing. So if some of their decisions seem haphazard to us, I think it is perfectly understandable.

All of us have the right to our opinions, and if you read this forum at all, we have no problem expressing them. In this case, though, I don't believe these girls have the same vested interest in this game as most of us do. They are just doing this for fun.  I would imagine that for most of us, our own opinions of the art have been affected to some extent by our view of the functionality of the card from having played it many times.  For example, I know my view of the art of Fairgrounds is definitely influenced by my love for the card in the game.

We therefore should all feel free to express our opinions, but it should be done with civility, perhaps a sense of humor, but never attacking.  As mentioned above there is a long way to go and the likelihood of disagreement is going to become much greater.  If you really don't like the criteria by which they are judging these cards, then start your own thread and see how many people agree with your opinions. Otherwise, let's just be sure to keep it light and fun.  If we don't, this could quickly be derailed. I personally would like to see this go all the way to number 1. 

Thank you jamfamsam and your daughters for taking time to do this and providing an opportunity for interesting discussion.
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ConMan

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #136 on: June 19, 2016, 08:59:42 pm »
0

I'm starting to disagree a lot with your rankings :P. The last few cards you ranked DEFIENETLY deserve to be way higher. Where is Junk Dealer? That art is miles worse than anything in group X. IMO you should judge more about the quality of the art itself.

Have you seen the hi-res version of Junk Dealer?  It is so much better than I thought from just looking at the card.
http://www.kmistudio.com/blog/index.php/gallery/image_full/337/
Seprix has at least half of a point. In proper resolution/contrast he looks like a random vendor in a screenshot from a video game. I wouldn't say that makes me actively dislike the art, but it does stand out in a not-entirely-positive way.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #137 on: June 19, 2016, 11:07:29 pm »
0

Thank you for your words, Willvon.

For the record, I have never felt attacked. The comment just presented me with an opportunity to reflect on the process.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #138 on: June 19, 2016, 11:10:01 pm »
+1

#336 - Alms



Here comes group W, sixteen cards.

The colors are vivid, but the lines are harsh and the faces weird.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #139 on: June 19, 2016, 11:11:37 pm »
+1

#335 - Cellar



This perspective gives the feel that we are looking at this through a crystal ball or something. There are doors going somewhere but no other cues that it's a cellar other than being a bit dark.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #140 on: June 19, 2016, 11:14:30 pm »
+2

#334 - Steward



This guy with the spilt-colored robe looks like the biggest spoiled brat of all time. We could never get past that.

How dare that servant present him with whatever is on that plate!!!
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Seprix

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #141 on: June 19, 2016, 11:24:31 pm »
+4

I think Dr. Spoiled Brat is the Steward, overseeing the meat to make sure it is good enough for you. Otherwise, it gets... trashed.
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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #142 on: June 20, 2016, 10:17:12 am »
+1

#332 - Festival



jsh said it all "Festival doesn't have a terrible picture, but it's not an inspiring one either. While the perspective work is better than on Council Room, somehow the elf looks too big in relation to what he's standing in front of. On the bright side, there's some nice variety in color here that keeps Festival out of the bottom four. Geez, that elf has quite the noggin. I'm not sure I'd be paying this con artist to get in to this particular festival. There's some kind of street fight going on inside, and a cop standing by to let it happen. Then again, maybe that's not so different from real life."

My girls thought it looked like Santa's village, elf and all.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #143 on: June 20, 2016, 10:18:39 am »
+8

#331 - Embassy



The guy is looking up in the sky perhaps at an alien ship. What he doesn't realize is that the alien is standing next to him. The truth is out there.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #144 on: June 20, 2016, 10:21:57 am »
+2

#331 - Gladiator/Fortune



I'm not exactly sure how this got separated from its two related pieces of art, but here it is in group W. Apparently we liked seeing the pink skin and chest of pickles all in the same picture. Maybe it's the advertisement for the local zoo in the background.
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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #145 on: June 20, 2016, 11:07:56 am »
+2

#339 - Develop



Why is this guy talking to a statue? I don't think I would build out in that wasteland. The shapes of the sand dunes are funky and make the picture look weird.

The shape of the tower is questionable at best but I won't go into any further detail.

I'm pretty sure the guy on the left also has a transparent face.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #146 on: June 20, 2016, 02:31:52 pm »
0

I'm wondering about a weighted ranking of the artists. Simply averaging out their art values will penalize artists for early failures. Matthias Carien's art has improved but his ranking will be much worse because his base game art was so bad. The weighted rank multiply each art ranking by 1 + 0.1 for each previous set with art of theirs. This way cards like Farmer's Market will be penalized more. I'm still trying to work out exactly what equation I will use.

On a side note, it would be cool to have a Qvist ranking for art.
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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #147 on: June 20, 2016, 02:40:46 pm »
+1

Fun Fact: Matthias Carien's average art ranking is 354.9, or 355.
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jamfamsam

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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #148 on: June 20, 2016, 03:02:40 pm »
+2

On a side note, it would be cool to have a Qvist ranking for art.

I intend to approach Qvist when I get nearer to the end about doing something like that. I think it would be fun.
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Re: jamfamsam's art ranking by committee
« Reply #149 on: June 20, 2016, 06:56:58 pm »
0

#330 - Nobles



The straw hair is nice. What's the eavesdropper even doing in the picture? He's an unnecessary distraction. The eavesdropper guy has a goofy look on his face.
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