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Author Topic: The Necro Wars  (Read 361017 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4900 on: February 10, 2023, 05:23:35 am »

One very persuasive but not very coherent intuition is that of an observer in the brain. People want to think that there's some guy or gal sitting in the head somewhere who receives information; like your soul or whatever.

This of course doesn't make a lot of sense under physical causal closure because then you'd have to implement that observer, and that just gives you exactly the same problems you already have with explaining how action and consciousness work. So you don't gain anything.

Then others want to toss out the idea and with it the idea that there is a center to consciousness. But that's just as bad of an error. The fact that our experience is unified (the boundary problem) is one of the most important hints to how stuff works.

These two ideas need to be uncoupled. The observer is bogus, but the center is not. So if you perceive a unified visual field, there *is* a physical spatial thing in the brain corresponding to the field. But it's not like the field itself does nothing and someone is observing it since again that only pushes the problem down one level. Rather, the field itself is doing computationally relevant stuff, and that is where the consciousness comes from. Said stuff includes all the Gestalt laws: continuation of lines, grouping of objections, 3d construction based on 2d stimuli, and so on.

Ipso facto, the feeling of "observing" a unified visual field is nothing philosophically deep or fundamental; it's just a particular quale that for some reason is computationally helpful. But the feeling of having one in the first place is both of those things.

There can then be also be processes taking the finished product and using it to do stuff -- ultimately to compute motor commands -- but that part has to be unconscious.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4901 on: February 10, 2023, 09:09:49 am »

Today, I think I noticed for the first time in my life that desktop is the concatenation of desk and top.  It's simliar to how it took me years and years to realize that cosine is co-sine

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4902 on: February 12, 2023, 11:11:05 am »

Synecdoche, New York really messed with my head

I'm not sure I recommend the movie or the analysis, but they're certainly both very thoughtful

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4903 on: February 12, 2023, 11:11:25 am »

I think I rate the movie 4+8i out of 10

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4904 on: February 12, 2023, 12:41:35 pm »

lmao the review series ends at part 5 and is never completed. That's perfect. You couldn't fit the movie's themes better.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4905 on: February 13, 2023, 05:11:00 am »

Let's try another chess run. My rating is not as bad as last time but still below where I think it belongs, so we ought to win >50%.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4906 on: February 13, 2023, 05:29:59 am »

Game 1 (w/L)



Well this guy was very strong, very high rated, and played a bad but ultra complicated opening, so can't be too upset here.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4907 on: February 13, 2023, 05:48:34 am »

Game 2 (w/L)



Another insane opening. There's way disproportionately many of those in this series. Fortunately, this guy wasn't nearly as strong. Unfortunately, we got low enough in time for me to miss a backrank mate.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4908 on: February 13, 2023, 06:09:00 am »

Game 3 (b/L)



This was a much more typical game; opponent played normal but didn't put any thought into their moves, but I wasn't good enough to see the refutations, and then they got the better end of complicated tactics. My elusive goal is to beat players like this regularly.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4909 on: February 13, 2023, 06:13:28 am »

Game 4 (b/W)



That's the the thing with not thinking; sometimes it works out, sometimes you blunder mate in 1 with 8:52 minutes on the clock.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4910 on: February 13, 2023, 06:30:26 am »

Game 5 (b/W)



Another normal opening into not thinking, just blindly going for the attack. I did not defend properly as the graph shows, but my opponent didn't see the opportunity. Maybe they should think more!

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4911 on: February 13, 2023, 06:50:55 am »

Game 6 (w/L)



Another gimmicky opening! But this one I don't mind because I know some stuff about it. Unfortunately, I made a stupid series of moves under relative time pressure.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4912 on: February 13, 2023, 06:51:03 am »

Well that's 2-4. That's not very good.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4913 on: February 13, 2023, 07:30:16 am »

Game 7 (w/W)



Opponent made strategic mistakes, got behind, and lost. I then sacrificed a piece on the attack which the engine says is the best move! Seemed impossible to defend with all pieces on the wrong side of the board.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4914 on: February 13, 2023, 07:48:53 am »

Game 8 (b/L)



Nothing happens but I play slower; eventually I spot a tactic that wins 2 pawns. I enter a completely winning endgame but heavily down on time and I can't convert

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4915 on: February 13, 2023, 08:02:37 am »

Game 9 (w/W)



My opponent played worse strategic moves early and got behind, then they also blundered their queen to a bishop skewer. So they made the perfectly reasonable decision to play the game out without their queen, as is their good right as a free citizen and user of chess.com.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4916 on: February 13, 2023, 08:19:16 am »

Game 10 (w/L)



Another "don't think, attack!" opponent, but this time, the engine mostly approves of the attack. I usually lose this particular opening because there's the obvious way to attack, but I keep playing it because engine says it's ok and should be defendable. Probably shouldn't have played it here though since the intent was to maximize winning chances.

That was 4-6? ouff. bad.

Awaclus

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4917 on: February 13, 2023, 11:32:08 am »

Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4918 on: February 13, 2023, 05:58:43 pm »

Here's a neat way to state one of the central consciousness problems. Consider propositions #1-#4:

#1: consciousness exists
#2: (real or apparent) consciousness is unified
#3: digital processing cannot lead to unified consciousness (... i.e., functionalism can't solve the boundary problem)
#4: the brain is basically a digital computer

Taken together, these 4 claims lead to a contradiction. Therefore, at least one must be false.

Dennett talks a lot about how #2 and #3 are true. He never talks about #4 but clearly considers it obvious. His claim is that #1 is false.

LessWrong people seem ambivalent between doubting #2 or #3, whatever seems more easier to doubt.

And I think #4 is false.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4919 on: February 13, 2023, 06:00:39 pm »

Hey I like this. This really brings home. I think I'll use that.

The other part is that I think there may be a pretty strong argument that #2-#4 are still contradiction even if #1 is false, but this is a really hard and confusing question.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4920 on: February 13, 2023, 06:02:49 pm »

doubting #1 is the stupidest. doubting #2 is also the stupidest. doubting #3 is terrible. After that it stops being reasonable. (This is a Douglas Adams reference.)

Awaclus

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4921 on: February 13, 2023, 08:06:47 pm »

Here's a neat way to state one of the central consciousness problems. Consider propositions #1-#4:

#1: consciousness exists
#2: (real or apparent) consciousness is unified
#3: digital processing cannot lead to unified consciousness (... i.e., functionalism can't solve the boundary problem)
#4: the brain is basically a digital computer

Taken together, these 4 claims lead to a contradiction. Therefore, at least one must be false.

Dennett talks a lot about how #2 and #3 are true. He never talks about #4 but clearly considers it obvious. His claim is that #1 is false.

LessWrong people seem ambivalent between doubting #2 or #3, whatever seems more easier to doubt.

And I think #4 is false.

Isn't #4 obviously false?
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4922 on: February 14, 2023, 04:35:09 am »

Isn't #4 obviously false?

It's false, but it's not very obvious to a lot of people.

#4 is actually the claim that matters for AI. These days when someone asks me what I'm doing, I'm just saying that I've received a grant-thing to study whether brains work like digital computers or not, without mentioning consciousness.

I think AI people (and LW people) not only think the brain works like a digital computer (plus some biological clocks perhaps), they also think that this isn't even up for debate. Like, we have neuroscience; we know how the brain works! So I don't think this feels like an assumption, I think it just feels like a boring fact.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4923 on: February 14, 2023, 07:49:56 am »

So the chess thing bothers me and I want to collect more data points before I admit defeat and that maybe things are just random. So we'll do it again. This time I'll space the games out more, at most 2 at a time.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4924 on: February 14, 2023, 08:14:55 am »

Game 1 (w/L)



Well, this game was the epitome of sadness. My opponent (who was also quite high rated) played the king of all dumb gambits that only work if your opponent messes up; the Englund Gambit. Unlike most gambits, this one usually just wins you the game outright unless your opponent plays exactly right, but if they do you're screwed.  Well did I know some moves, and I found some more over the board, hence the graph that you can see here. But I was also at under 5 minutes vs over 9, and couldn't quite do it.
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