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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling  (Read 21535 times)

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werothegreat

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Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« on: February 26, 2016, 11:10:40 am »
+3


Here, hold this for me.

Hireling!  Basically does exactly what Hirelings do in Munchkin.  *shudder*

-How soon do you want one?
-How many do you want?
-How often are you willing to play this over a good terminal, just to get it into play?
-Are there any instances where you don't want one?
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Marcory

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2016, 12:47:57 pm »
0

Only reason I can think of that you wouldn't want a Hireling is if you have Prince of Lookout and your opponent has Prince of Sea Hag.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2016, 01:49:59 pm »
+2

Only reason I can think of that you wouldn't want a Hireling is if you have Prince of Lookout and your opponent has Prince of Sea Hag.
But don't you get to decide what order to resolve them in?  You could just do the Lookout first every time.  Oh and the Curses will run out, too.

I'm definitely going to Prince my Ruined Library play my Hireling over pretty much any other terminal at the time, barring few exceptions.

Rules question:
Does Prince keep playing the "This stays in play" durations?  Because technically they're never leaving play, and hence they can be set aside every turn you play it.  Or no?  I hope this is not the case, as playing a Hireling every turn (after Princed) would get super wonky.
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werothegreat

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2016, 02:05:35 pm »
0

Does Prince keep playing the "This stays in play" durations?  Because technically they're never leaving play, and hence they can be set aside every turn you play it.  Or no?  I hope this is not the case, as playing a Hireling every turn (after Princed) would get super wonky.

No.  Hireling does not leave play at the end of your turn, and is not set aside.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2016, 02:06:23 pm »
0

Rules question:
Does Prince keep playing the "This stays in play" durations?  Because technically they're never leaving play, and hence they can be set aside every turn you play it.  Or no?  I hope this is not the case, as playing a Hireling every turn (after Princed) would get super wonky.
Prince doesn't work with most Durations, Reserves or one-shots, because they aren't discarded on the turn you play them.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2016, 02:08:53 pm »
0

Does Prince keep playing the "This stays in play" durations?  Because technically they're never leaving play, and hence they can be set aside every turn you play it.  Or no?  I hope this is not the case, as playing a Hireling every turn (after Princed) would get super wonky.

No.  Hireling does not leave play at the end of your turn, and is not set aside.

Right, it's because Durations stay in play (and aren't discarded) that they're a nombo with Prince. Hireling and Champion just happen to do it every "play" instead of every other "play".
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Marcory

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2016, 02:50:25 pm »
0

You can prince Duration cards, but the only reason you'd ever want to do so is when Possessing someone. Theoretically you can Prince Tactician and have it stay out if the Tactician doesn't discard any cards (maybe because you also have a Prince of Secret Chamber that you play first), but this is not ever going to be a good idea.
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Donald X.

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2016, 04:54:53 pm »
+3

So far Hireling appears to be the most overrated-power-level-wise card in the set. You can find people saying it's crazy broken (e.g. on Amazon). An extra card every turn! I do not think it's crazy broken. I buy it some, but not always.

One point of comparison is, when you're drawing your deck every turn, Hireling gets you a card a turn, but so does Lab. Hireling helps you not fizzle at the start, and draws you more cards relatively when you aren't drawing your deck every turn. Lab meanwhile never used up an action and is cheaper and works the first time you draw it. I mean they are different all the ways they are different, but you know.

It's certainly good to have a Hireling. I don't think I've gotten more than three; I think typically I left it at one.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2016, 05:14:22 pm »
+2

One of the few Adventures games I played had Hireling. It's a feel good card for newer players. Getting extra draw every turn makes people feel like they're making progress in their deck-building.

Combos nicely with Throne Room variants. Royal Carriage in particular has an easy time lining up with Hireling, and can stack on a single Hireling too.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2016, 06:59:35 pm »
0

Combos nicely with Throne Room variants. Royal Carriage in particular has an easy time lining up with Hireling, and can stack on a single Hireling too.

It does combo nicely, with the caveat that you lose your Throne Room variant for the rest of the game. Big drawback. I guess Royal Carriage is cheaper than a second Hireling.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2016, 07:16:39 pm »
0

Overall, I think buying pieces that draw more of your deck tend to be better. Hireling looks strong, but in reality it's average.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2016, 07:21:30 pm »
0

My fun Hireling story from the DC meetup last year:

I had just gotten my Teacher on my Tavern mat for the first time. In cleanup I drew 2 Hirelings plus some other terminal. So at the start of my next turn, I called Teacher to put the +1 action token on the Hireling pile, which is not a pile you would normally want to put it on. But it allowed me to get both Hirelings in play and still play my other terminal. I moved the +1 action token shortly after.

When I first saw Hireling, I thought it was crazy. I thought I'd never buy Gold again, at least not until I had a few Hirelings. But then of course I realized that really it's just a Laboratory that you get to play every turn, like a more consistent Alchemist.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2016, 07:24:01 pm »
0

Hireling is pretty much a alchemist with a few ups and downs
Hireling is terminal the first time you play it
Alchemist requires a potion to buy
Alchemist requires drawing that potion
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2016, 09:08:19 pm »
0

I mean how awesome is "Prince of Ruined Libraries for $6", that's how awesome Hireling is. It's nice, I don't think you're going to buy it on every board for a lot of the same reasons you don't buy Prince on every board.
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Marcory

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2016, 11:38:20 pm »
0

Well, Prince of Abandoned Mine (Treasury) is a middling $5 until you start greening. The fact that Hireling is a middling $6 is less a testament to the strength or weakness of Hireling than to the power of Prince.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2016, 04:13:16 am »
0

I think Hireling is card for mid-level engines.

The most powerful draw-your-deck engines probably won't need it (although it can help of course), but the more unreliable engines may get a big boost from it.

An extra card is a pretty big deal, that's why regular Village is often so much better than Necropolis.
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jomini

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2016, 09:13:47 am »
+1

Hireling seems to me to be most potent in sloggy games. Take something like a Margrave slog, adding another card lets you hit provinces on off turns and makes your deck far more silver tolerant. Similarly when the curses are flowing that Prince or Ruined Libraries is something you can grab on your first $6 (maybe even T3) and then have a lot easier time getting back to $3, $5, or $6 for the rest of the game.

Slogs mean that you will not be drawing a bunch from somewhere else, that every price point is much more valuable (going from $2 to $3, $3 to $4 and from $5 to $6 matter a lot). Slogs also mean that you will get many turns of value, not just until you can draw your deck. Even with just a stock 2 silver opening, a Hireling raises your average hand to $5.5 while a Gold raises it only to $5.38. The gold does pay out a turn sooner, but the worse your deck is, particularly with lots of garbage curses, the better Hireling seems in early-mid game hands.

One very nice slog combination is with Quest. Hireling assures a gold every turn barring discard attacks which is not a bad hand when your deck has been nuked by Ruins or has been flooded by Coppers and Estates (e.g. 4er Amb wars).

On the engine side of the house, Hireling seems best when I am building an untrashed engine - if I plan on using a good bit of cellaring or some big draw like Envoy or Huntinggrounds, that extra card is worth a lot more given the odds of drawing dross each hand.

In general, Hireling seems much better when draw is very difficult to have going.
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werothegreat

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2016, 10:31:30 am »
+1

Also, in comparing Hireling to Lab: against handsize Attacks, with Lab, you have to choose whether to keep the Lab in hand, or your payload cards.  With Hireling, you have no such choice to make - just keep your payload!
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2016, 02:47:32 pm »
+1

How viable is Hireling-Vault?  Vault helps you buy Hireling with ease.  Two Hirelings in play make every Vault a guaranteed Province, barring discard attacks.  With 1 Hireling, all you need is Silver+Vault.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2016, 03:20:32 pm »
0

How viable is Hireling-Vault?  Vault helps you buy Hireling with ease.  Two Hirelings in play make every Vault a guaranteed Province, barring discard attacks.  With 1 Hireling, all you need is Silver+Vault.
Why ask us when you can simulate it?
See if it is better than vault bm for starters.
I imagine you want more vaults than normal.
Lets see how this would work
First shuffle = 2 silver
Second shuffle is vault-silver
Third shuffle is double hireling maybe
4th shuffle is play hirelings and get like one vault
5th shuffle is Buy 2 more vaults,get a province
Every shuffle after that is like three provinces
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2016, 05:12:36 pm »
+2

You can prince Duration cards, but the only reason you'd ever want to do so is when Possessing someone. Theoretically you can Prince Tactician and have it stay out if the Tactician doesn't discard any cards (maybe because you also have a Prince of Secret Chamber that you play first), but this is not ever going to be a good idea.
Also Gear, as long as you choose to set no cards aside (which removes the part of it that makes it a Duration).
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2016, 08:45:53 pm »
0

Combos nicely with Throne Room variants. Royal Carriage in particular has an easy time lining up with Hireling, and can stack on a single Hireling too.

It does combo nicely, with the caveat that you lose your Throne Room variant for the rest of the game. Big drawback. I guess Royal Carriage is cheaper than a second Hireling.

Hireling is just nuts with Procession. I agree with the arguments about how Hireling's not as crazy as it seems, but they all go out the window when you are doubling 5s and getting Hirelings for free, or maybe doubling Hireling itself, depending on your shuffling. In the game we played, I got 5 Hirelings into play, and let me tell you, the world is your oyster when you start each turn with +5 cards.
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ConMan

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2016, 10:50:05 pm »
+2

I am quite happy to see that the recommended kingdom for Adventures & Dark Ages that includes Hireling also includes Procession. *And* Graverobber and Rogue, so you can (in theory) pull off the ridiculous Prc-Prc-Hireling-Graverobber-wash-rinse-repeat combo. Has anyone actually done that in a game, and lived to tell the tale?
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2016, 07:55:39 am »
0

So Hireling is never trashed by procession? Has this been confirmed? And then ypu would still get an upgraded card?

How would this combo work? Use procession on procession, use on Hireling and Graverobber, the procession stays out with Hireling and neither are ever trashed, but you still get another graverobber? So can you only do this combo when there is already a procession in the trash?
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Hireling
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2016, 08:08:38 am »
+6

So Hireling is never trashed by procession? Has this been confirmed? And then ypu would still get an upgraded card?

How would this combo work? Use procession on procession, use on Hireling and Graverobber, the procession stays out with Hireling and neither are ever trashed, but you still get another graverobber? So can you only do this combo when there is already a procession in the trash?
I think this has been answered before, but I don't know where, so here goes.

My understanding: procession  a hireling will trash the hireling and gain a 7 cost. The procession stays out permanently and you still get the extra two cards every turn.

Procession  a Procession on a hireling will trash the second Procession  and the hireling.  You do get the extra two cards for the rest of the game but nothing stays out. The first Procession gets discarded as normal.  The other card you Procession behaves as normal.
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