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[McGarnacle]

In terms of least skippable, can an argument be made for Witch?

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised we have got 5 votes for Minion and Torturer but none for Witch.

[Beyond Awesome]

In terms of least skippable, can an argument be made for Witch?

How are MB and Cultist more skippable than Witch?

[McGarnacle]

In terms of least skippable, can an argument be made for Witch?

How are MB and Cultist more skippable than Witch?

Maybe because a lot of Witch games are with base game cards, which means that Witch has less competition than MB and Cultist do in their respective expansions.

[LastFootnote]

What does everyone think about Soothsayer?

I think in almost any game with poor or no Curse trashing and a special reason to want Golds (Remodel or what-have-you), it's fantastic. In games with either no Curse trashing or a special reason to want Golds, it's still very attractive. If there's good Curse trashing and no special reason to want Golds, the competition at $5 is usually much stiffer. Though if there's nothing else fighting for my $5 buys or terminal Action slots, I may still get one.

[Willvon]

I voted for Mountebank. Maybe it's because it was my first expansion, but I feel like since it continues to give you junk throughout the game, it has the edge over Cultist. Unless you don't have villages, you can play the Ruins and there have been many times that Ruined Market has helped me with the +buy. If you have a good trasher, then whether it's curses or Ruins, the effect on you is going to be alleviated at about the same rate.  But even when curses run out, you still receive coppers, which can really gum you up especially as you get more green in your hand. So because it's the pain that keeps on giving, I give Mountebank the slight edge.

[McGarnacle]

Since nobody seems to vote for it, what is the disadvantage of Ghost Ship that makes other attacks more attractive?

[LastFootnote]

Since nobody seems to vote for it, what is the disadvantage of Ghost Ship that makes other attacks more attractive?

Its effects don't stack and it only draws 2 cards. I mean it's still a strong card, but depending on how you judge card strength, many junkers are stronger.

[McGarnacle]

Since nobody seems to vote for it, what is the disadvantage of Ghost Ship that makes other attacks more attractive?

Its effects don't stack and it only draws 2 cards. I mean it's still a strong card, but depending on how you judge card strength, many junkers are stronger.

Most junkers effects only stack a few times, depending on the number of players. MB being an obvious exception.

[schadd]

In terms of least skippable, can an argument be made for Witch?

not a rigorous one, no

[luser]

A single Mountebank (like from the Black Market deck) is much stronger than a single Cultist. Multiple Cultists just blow multiple Mountebanks out of the water. Mountebank allows you to moat with a Curse, that's a big part of it.

If Cultist and Mountebank are on the board, you can bet your life I'm going to go hard for the Cultists. Mountebank is just too slow for Cultist rushes.

lol, and who voted Giant?

without trashing its better to first get one mountebank, then cultist to do most harm. First two plays hurts most and then you could catch up buying cultists and even with 3/7 ruins split a number of junk cards is even.

Also there should be choice of governor, its very strong attack. In last apprentice/governor game I junked opponents deck with 14 silvers.

[Harley_Beckett]

As it concerns counters to Cultist and Mountebank, I think Trader is one of the best (along with Lighthouse, Watchtower, and Moat).  Am I mistaken? 

The beauty of Trader is that it can be used either to block the incoming junk, or to remove it from your deck later.

If Cultist is present, I almost always go for it, but yesterday, because of Trader, I made an exception, and did not end up regretting it.  For those of you who like reading logs, be my guest:  http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160403/log.0.1459726085063.txt

[mameluke]

The problem with Trader is that you (may) still end up with the junk, it just happens later, on a turn when you don't have the Trader in hand. Good, yes, but Watchtower is so much better.

[AdrianHealey]

As it concerns counters to Cultist and Mountebank, I think Trader is one of the best (along with Lighthouse, Watchtower, and Moat).  Am I mistaken? 

The beauty of Trader is that it can be used either to block the incoming junk, or to remove it from your deck later.

If Cultist is present, I almost always go for it, but yesterday, because of Trader, I made an exception, and did not end up regretting it.  For those of you who like reading logs, be my guest:  http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160403/log.0.1459726085063.txt

That was pretty close, and trader+market square is really what worked, not just trader, I'd say?

[Harley_Beckett]

The problem with Trader is that you (may) still end up with the junk, it just happens later, on a turn when you don't have the Trader in hand. Good, yes, but Watchtower is so much better.

True, but with Trader you get a Silver out of the deal, which is probably a card you want in this junking-heavy scenario we're talking about.  Also, if you do get junk in your deck, Watchtower can't do anything about it, whereas Trader can, albeit badly.

You're probably right - Watchtower is likely better in this scenario, but Trader is still very useful, and I think it's an oft overlooked card.

That was pretty close, and trader+market square is really what worked, not just trader, I'd say?

Well spotted!  I admit, I didn't reread the log before posting it - I just remembered I'd played the game and that it might be relevant to the discussion.  It was a close but immensely satisfying game, with all the Trader and MS shenanigans.

I think there's a very real possibility that Cultist is far more skippable than people think

[liopoil]

In terms of least skippable, can an argument be made for Witch?

How are MB and Cultist more skippable than Witch?

MB: Sometimes you get a Witch largely for the cards. You get MB for junking; then wouldn't Witch be worth it too?

Cultist: Curses are worse for the opponent in the long run, and in some decks ruins are good. If where is Cultist worth it and Witch not?

I voted for Cultist.

[LibraryAdventurer]

I switched my vote to Giant when I realized the poll was for "best" and not "strongest".

[mee]

if the discussion is which one to get I would say cultist mountebank together would beat straight cultist or straight mountebank.
with cultists two piles run out extremely quickly. so the curses might determine who the winner is. also the cultist draw is much depleted when there are Junkers.
as for going straight mountebank,  you wont give out all the curses fast enough and your deck will become terribly bloated due to your opponent junking your deck.
I don't know when I would go for what but I would go for 2 cultists than a mountebank  but this is really a question for the simulators. 

[McGarnacle]

if the discussion is which one to get I would say cultist mountebank together would beat straight cultist or straight mountebank.
with cultists two piles run out extremely quickly. so the curses might determine who the winner is. also the cultist draw is much depleted when there are Junkers.
as for going straight mountebank,  you wont give out all the curses fast enough and your deck will become terribly bloated due to your opponent junking your deck.
I don't know when I would go for what but I would go for 2 cultists than a mountebank  but this is really a question for the simulators.

True. When we do card rankings, we need to unrealisticaly consider the cards in a vacuum.

[Marcory]

True. When we do card rankings, we need to unrealisticaly consider the cards in a vacuum.

I hope that this unrealistic vacuum is one with a see-through collector. I'd hate to have to dig them out of one of those old-school dust bags. But in any case, isn't it easier to just pick up your cards off the floor instead of taking a Hoover to them?

[McGarnacle]

True. When we do card rankings, we need to unrealisticaly consider the cards in a vacuum.

I hope that this unrealistic vacuum is one with a see-through collector. I'd hate to have to dig them out of one of those old-school dust bags. But in any case, isn't it easier to just pick up your cards off the floor instead of taking a Hoover to them?

I find you get a better perspective of cards when viewed in a vacuum.