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Author Topic: Fan Expansion - Royal Wizardry  (Read 11882 times)

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461.weavile

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Fan Expansion - Royal Wizardry
« on: January 04, 2016, 08:51:38 pm »
+3

This was my first attempt at a fan expansion all those years ago. I'm still a proponent of the concept, even if I was bad at making cards, making multiple cards seem like a cohesive expansion, and taking feedback, lol. The concept of this expansion was to make Potions less of a nuisance in your deck. I'll dare to say that I'm better at designing cards, and have designed a lot since then, and I think I'm ready to share. I'm going to start off by updating this expansion to my current vision of how to make Potions not feel like a penalty. Beware, it's a surprisingly Attack-heavy set now, with 8/17 piles having an Attack in it. I don't do randomizers, so it's 200 cards, not counting randomizers.

Let me start with the primary new mechanism in this expansion.


Quote
Magical Staff
Action-Duration-Magic
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
You may play a Potion from your hand. If you do, at the start of your next turn, +.
Magic: {Instead of +, put this into your hand.}
Quote
Magical Shield
Action-Duration-Reserve-Magic
+ or Magic: {+2 Cards instead.}
Put this on your Tavern mat.
-
When another player plays an Attack card you may first call this for + at the start of your next turn. Magic: {+1 Card instead.} Until then, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.
Quote
Magical Arrow
Action-Reaction-Magic
If you have no cards in play other than Magical Arrows, +2 Cards.
-
Magic: {When you draw this, you may play it.}
Quote
Magical Berry
Treasure-Magic
Put a card from your hand onto your deck.
Magic: {Put a card from your discard pile onto your deck.}
-
When you gain this, trash any number of cards from your hand costing .

Quote
Royal Mages
Project
When you play a Magic card, you may now use its Magic effects.
When you gain a Potion you bought, +1.

Royal Mages does not get shuffled in with the randomizers or other landscapes or however your table chooses a Kingdom. Royal Mages is like the Ruins pile that gets added to a Kingdom when a Looter card is in the Kingdom; Royal Mages gets added when a Magic card is in the Kingdom. If you already have two landscapes, I guess just add this as a third one. I'm sure it won't hurt. If you got unlucky and the first two were both Projects, you actually got lucky, because you're actually restricted to building two Projects, unlike the loose suggestion to only use two landscapes in a Kingdom, meaning it's an extra strategic element for the players which Projects to fund.
These don't look like Potion cards at first blush, but they are because they add Royal Mages to the Kingdom. My first attempt at these cards made them specifically not Potion cards, because I thought it would be interesting to have them do something different depending on what else is in the Kingdom. Man, was that not interesting.
Clearly there is some required additions to the rulebook with this. Other than the Magic type adding Royal Mages to the Kingdom, the rules will have to clarify that you ignore the text in the braces if you haven't hired your Royal Mages to enchant your things yet. I don't think "instead" will need a clarification in the rules, but let me know if anybody else has a different thought.
Magical Berry is new, based on a goodberry, which is almost flavorless, but provides excellent nutrition. No worry of Crows here; buy it when you need it. It's obviously bad enough to cost , but maybe it's an interesting enough decision for when to trash a bunch of Coppers you have in a single hand. Maybe you're planning to get lots of draw and an extra +buy, or maybe it's going to get used even earlier if you get some good opening Action cards. It'll even help if you accidentally collide terminals; a good thing, too, since it doesn't provide any payload.
Magical Arrow is exactly the same as it used to be, just without the bulky wording and other clutter: it's all moved to the rulebook and the Royal Mages text.
Magical Shield has gotten a bit of a revamp. It does generally the same thing as it used to, but the Attack immunity is improved to last until your turn instead of just for a single Attack, and the ability to make it give +Cards instead of + by having the Royal Mages enchant it. Maybe you want the in the early game.
Magical Staff is new, because I like the Magic card concept a lot more than the other ideas I had way back when, so this rounds out the slot. It directly addresses my goal of making Potion less useless. Is it interesting to get this back to your hand next turn? Plunder seems to think so. You might need a Village to go with it, but not every -cost card can support itself.
The only note about Royal Mages is the limited + on it. How strong is your deck at turning useless cards into some benefit? I know I don't want a bunch of Potions sitting around imitating Estates.
Here are the rest of the Magic cards.

Quote
Magical Hammer
Night-Magic-Omen
Magic: {+1 Sun
You may spend any number of Coffers for +1 Villager each. Then,}
Trash a card from your hand for +2 Coffers per card left in your hand.
Quote
Battlemage
Action-Duration-Attack-Magic
Magic: {Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand reveals his hand, discards an Action card, discards a Treasure card.}
Each other player with at least 4 cards in hand gains a Copper.
At the start of your next turn, +. Magic: {and +.}
Quote
Magical Sword
Action-Attack-Magic
+1 Action
Each other player discards a card and draws until he has 4 cards in hand. Magic: {Each other player reveals his hand and you choose for him.} Put up to 2 copies of one discarded card from your discard pile into your hand.
Quote
Spell Sniper
Action-Duration-Attack-Magic
+ Magic: {and +.}
At the start of your next turn, choose one: Each other player takes his -1 Card token. Magic: {and discards down to 4 cards in hand.} OR Each other player gains a Copper to his hand. Magic: {and another Copper.}
Quote
Magical Ring
Treasure-Duration-Attack-Magic-Omen

At the start of your next turn, +1 Villager. Magic: {and +1 Sun
Until then, each other player must discard a card before playing an Action card from his hand.}
Quote
Magical Cloak
Action-Attack-Magic
+1 Action
+
Each other player with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.
Magic: [+1 Card
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, take the Moment of Invisibility.]
Quote
Moment of Invisibility
Artifact
When an Action you play would give you +Cards or +, you choose which one.
When you play an Attack card, lose this.
Out of 17 cards in this expansion, 10 of them are Magic cards. Hey, one of them has in its base cost, not just from the Royal Mages.
Magical Hammer has undergone the most significant change from the old version. It's still trash for benefit, but in a really different way which is no longer a Duration card. It still fills that future theme by giving +Coffers and +Villagers. It used to be Village now and + next turn, and it's sort of still that, but in a much less wordy way. See the end of this post for an old version. The trash for benefit is changed so that it's not checking how good the card you trashed was, so you might get it early, and just might get the Sun tokens rolling before you have better stuff to trash for benefit from its cost. Maybe it's fighting itself, though, because the Sun token is currently only happening after you get the Royal Mages to enchant it, but it's thematic in that the +Villagers come with that impending doom.
Battlemage is not new, it just has a new name. It used to be called "Warlord," but that name is taken now. Warlord changed a lot since I originally posted it. It didn't like being a Reserve; it didn't like being just a glorified Knight, and it didn't like having that weird drawback, which was generously pointed out to me. It also wasn't a Magic card back then, but I was happy to expand the mechanic to more cards like this one. Really all that's changed recently is the Magic part; it's been a close counterpart to the new old Wizard for a while. It also somewhat makes the Attack better, because you can choose when to stop junking and start attacking the hand. The unconditional revealing is just to save text space, since it's already really full, but it's not going to matter that much, in my opinion; you could think of it as a thematic upgrade for getting a better spell to cast from the Royal Mages.
Magical Sword is also a returning card, but with a much-needed facelift. It was fairly similar, with the discarding a card and being made to discard the best card if it was enchanted, but it was wordy and confusing, and the confusing wordiness didn't even make it better, more fun, or more interesting. It's a bad Laboratory with a mild Militia Attack if you don't get it enchanted, but the Royal Mages make it a much better Attack, and a fairly decent Laboratory; hopefully you want to draw two identical cards.
Spell Sniper is also a renamed card. It used to be called "Wizard," but now there's a rotating pile called that, so I changed it, obviously. Adding in the Magic was pretty easy on this one. It barely changed from the old version otherwise -- well, the new old version, that is. Asper commented on a significantly different older version than the one I've been playing with since then, it's pretty much just this version without the curly braces. The Warlord and the Wizard have been counterparts for a long time now, one being Attack now and later, the other being now and Attack later. Maybe the other players will have an opportunity to plan for the option they think you'll choose, or maybe you can choose the option that hurts more based on their choices since you played it.
Magical Ring is another new one. I wanted a Magic card that was also a Treasure and accidentally came up with two of them. Twice as nice, I suppose. The Attack part and the Omen part only happen if you have the Royal Mages imbue it with some terrible Magic. Let me be honest and say that I haven't tested this one at all, lol. Maybe the attack part should just be Militia.
Magical Cloak is a revamped old card. It's the Queen from the original album linked below, which I fixed after Asper said it was too weak, but then I realized I accidentally made Junk Dealer but better for the same , and wasn't sure I wanted to scrap it completely. The obvious fix was to give it a cost, so I did that, then it wanted to be a real part of this expansion before I even had a chance to rename it, so it naturally needed to be a Magic card. That's when I added the Artifact part to it. Thematically, it does a bit of everything: weak Peddler, weak Militia, weak trashing... oh, and you can turn invisible. I thought I'd try the square brackets to see if it's preferable to the curly braces, but I don't really have a strong opinion.
Moment of Invisibility is the Artifact that goes with it. It seems sort of powerful, to be able to turn Festival into Lost City, but it's also easy to lose the Artifact, because the only way to get it, by playing Magical Cloak after having the Royal Mages enchant it, is also going to make you lose it. It's also thematically apt, because attacking removes invisibility in a lot of different media uses of invisibility. You invested a Potion buy and the help of the Royal Mages to get to this thing, so how willing are you to pass up your better-than-Junk-Dealer card just to keep the Artifact? Maybe somebody will take it from you anyway.

Let's see what else we have here.

Quote
Quicksilver
Treasure

Trash this. Gain a card costing up to .
[Heirloom] Quicksilver
Quote
Spellbook
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+
You may discard a Treasure card for +1 Buy.
Quote
Energy Drain
Action-Attack-
Each other player gets +1 Exhaustion.
Choose a player: +1 Coffers per Exhaustion he has.
Quote
Exhaustion
Token type ala Coffers
At the start of your turn, discard a Treasure card per Exhaustion you have (or reveal you can't).
At the end of your turn, if you didn't buy any cards, lose all your Exhaustion.
Quote
Strange Combo
Action-Treasure
+1 Buy
+1 Villager
If it's your Buy phase, + per 2 differently named non-Treasure cards you have in play.
Otherwise, reveal your hand. +1 Card per 2 differently named Treasure cards in your hand.
Quote
Castellan
Action-Knight
+
Each player (including you) discards the top 2 cards of his deck, revealed, discarding and revealing an additional card for each Knight. You may gain a copy of one of the revealed cards costing from to .
These are just some normal -cost things.
Quicksilver is barely different from the old version. It was obviously never going to be bought at , so it's dropped to within the range of its own gaining effect. If you want more than just the one you start with when this is in the Kingdom, you could gain another one instead of something small like Courtyard or whatever costs . Also, looks cleaner with the "Heirloom" wording. It's interesting to me that it's its own Heirloom, but it doesn't really have a mechanical purpose, just a curiosity. Technically, you take them from the pile, so the pile will start with 6 cards if you're playing with 4 people. It technically requires a rulebook clarification for what happens if setup includes more than 7 Heirlooms, but do what you want with that.
Spellbook is virtually unchanged from its inception. (OK, it changed once to make the Potion useful after you're done buying Spellbooks.) It was overpriced on my first go, so it's down to something more comparable to the platonic ideal of a Peddler variant.
Energy Drain is just a renamed and reworded card. It used to be called "Spellcaster;" I don't remember why I changed it now, but maybe it had something to do with how I cleaned up the mechanism. The old way made each other player play a penalizing card from a non-Supply pile called "Delusion," which obviously conflicts with Deluded. The card name and the token name go together well, now. Exhaustion is like VP tokens, because you build them up as you get them, but there's no way to spend Exhaustion like there is for Coffers and Villagers; you just dump the whole pile like Wine Merchants if you meet the condition. Honestly, the mat is probably overkill, but it's here for completeness. The effect of the card hasn't changed, but this is much clearer than the old way. I remember thinking that playing a card without it ever going to your deck was cool, but I'm not excited by that any more. This card's effect does excite me, though; honestly, one of my favorites out of the ideas I've had.
Strange Combo is a better version of an old card of mine called Gold Leaf. Since I generally trust Asper, and he suggested it's a waste of mechanical complexity to do an Action-Treasure where the Treasure part is just coins, I made it actually meaningful that you're playing it during your Buy phase. In theory, the old card (which was Lab in an Action phase or Gold+Buy in a Buy phase) could just as easily be a normal choice on a normal Action card. This version always gives you the +Buy and the +Action in the form of a Villager, just for conceptual simplicity. It would've been nice if it could count copies of itself that were played as the Action part, but that'd be way too many words for the hilariously minor benefit.
Castellan is another old card. It doesn't have a in its cost, but it's always been thematic with this set, and both thematically and mechanically doesn't want a cost. The original version had the + being conditional, but for a very long time now it's been unconditional and has had the conditional third peek card.

Only two piles left to get to the 17 in the expansion. Here's one.

Quote
Quote
Dame Bridget

Put a token on a non-Victory Supply pile. (Cards cost less per token on their piles.)
[Knight effect]
Quote
Dame Hailey

Gain a Horse.
[Knight effect]
Quote
Dame Maria

+1 Villager
[Knight effect]
Quote
Dame Regina

+1
[Knight effect]
Quote
Dame Victoria

[Knight effect] [If a Knight is trashed by this...] Otherwise, you may play an Action card from your hand twice.
Quote
Sir Andrew

Choose one: discard your hand and +4 Cards; or [Knight effect]
Quote
Sir Cole

+1 Coffers
Each other player takes his -1 Card and - tokens, then [Knight effect]
Quote
Sir Matthew

[Knight effect]
Add to a Supply pile. (A player takes the from a pile he gains from during his Buy phase.)
Quote
Sir Peter

[Knight effect]
You may gain one of the other trashed cards.
Quote
Sir Zachary

Trash this.
Each other player reveals the top card of his deck, trashes one of them costing from to , and discards the rest.
If no other Knight was trashed by this, gain either the Black Knight or the White Knight, your choice.
Quote
Black Knight
Action-Duration-Knight
At the start of each of your turns, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, + per it costs and + per or it costs.
Quote
White Knight
Action-Duration-Attack-Knight
Now and at the start of your next turn, each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from to , and discards the rest.
Knights 2: Electric Boogaloo. The point is to add them to the existing Knights, secretly pick 10 of them to include in the pile, and put the rest back in the box. I don't think I had this idea myself, and SirMartin definitely suggested it, regardless of whether I had thought of it beforehand, so I'll just give him the credit. Only half of the 10 are the same 5 as when I first posted. Those are:
Dame Bridget -- I fixed the wording and lets it work if you trash it, but also works for other people. Just git gud and pick piles that only you want, lol.
Dame Regina -- I see Tristan suggested this at way back when, and I don't even remember it ever being . I'm sure it was, but it's been this way for a long time now.
Sir Cole -- This is technically a combination of Sir Cole and Sir Nicholas. (RIP Sir Nicholas.) Sir Nicholas had the +Coffers originally, but I didn't really like Sir Cole not benefitting the person who plays him, so I combined them. Tristan said this is too strong, but I haven't felt like changing it. If anything, it's probably fine because you can't spam it like Relics or Bridge Trolls, but maybe it even encourages somebody else to get a Knight to defeat him.
Sir Peter -- This one was a no-brainer to keep. I did change the wording in the hopes that it's clearer that you can't just keep Sir Peter if he falls in battle.
Sir Zachary -- This one I was on the fence about keeping, honestly, because I don't know if the upgrading is interesting enough. I ultimately kept him as an excuse to have the weird and interactions. The wording is obviously fixed up, and is hopefully good now; he's always trashed, whether he falls in battle or not, so I just put that part first for clarity.
The Black Knight lost the Attack part a long time ago, but hasn't changed otherwise.
The White Knight was changed very early on to be just the Attack part when the Black Knight no longer had it, but with the added bonus (which Black Knight also used to have) of being too experienced to fall to any of the other Knights. The goofy Prize gain and the +Action were frivolous. The Duration bit was added recently, when I decided the crazy goofy Knights were not particularly fun.
I originally thought doing all the crazy combinations that DXV couldn't do would be interesting; a Duration-Knight, a Reserve-Knight, a Reaction-Knight, and a when-gain Knight. If I felt good about abbreviating the Knight effect on the card, I would've considered keeping them, because I still like the effect of the Reaction-Knight, (sacrifices herself from your hand to save a card you're trashing,) but it's hard to read and you don't actually get a benefit when you play it, she just attacked. I briefly considered only adding 6 Knights to make it randomly pick 10 from 16, but I preferred to have 10, so it stays at randomly picking 10 from 20 possible Knights. There was also one that I wanted to give out Ruins, but that's super annoying for setup.
Anyway, here are the new ones:
Dame Hailey -- Gain a Horse is super simple and obvious now that DXV published them. I briefly considered "If a Knight or Horse is trashed by this;" it'd be cute, but I don't think it's interesting, and it'd probably get forgotten amidst the regular Knight effect text. I don't know about you, but I see "blah-blah each other player" and I stop reading.
Dame Maria -- +1 Villager is also cool, but since there's already +2 Actions, I had to do something different. I'm not convinced is right, but maybe it's alright because you can't spam them?
Dame Victoria -- Throne room is a cool idea. I don't know if it needs the safety of not falling in battle to work, but it's at least thematic with her name, and at the very least helps tracking if it plays a Duration.
Sir Andrew -- Sometimes he and his traveling companions don't have to fight; sometimes they can work together to talk the enemies off the ledge and settle it diplomatically. You have to compromise with them and discard whatever you have left in your hand, though. If Minion is any indication, that's often worth it, but hopefully there's a card in the Kingdom with virtual coin.
Sir Matthew -- It's the Knight effect with the Tax effect. I'm not sure how I feel about there not being a bonus for the person who plays it, but it's a little more strategic than simply the Militia effect, at least.
I thought about doing some crazy stuff like an Omen-Knight and a Shadow-Knight, but I think that'd just be venturing back into the same territory as the other crazy ideas I just discarded. Something about a honeymoon phase, I guess.

OK, let's wrap this up. Here's the last pile.


Quote
Lead
Treasure-Traveller

+1 Buy
-
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Poison.
Quote
Poison
Night-Attack-Traveller
Each other player may discard a Victory card from his hand. Each player who does not gains a Curse.
-
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Potion and a Recipe.
Quote
Recipe
Action-Traveller
You may trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to more than it onto your deck.
-
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for an Ether.
Quote
Ether
Action-Traveller
Choose one: +1 Card and +2 Actions; or gain a Silver and a Potion to your hand; or return up to 4 cards from your hand to the Supply.
-
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Gold and an Elixir of Life.
Quote
Elixir of Life
Action-Duration
+1 Card
+1 Action
At the start of your turns for the rest of the game, +1 Villager, discard any number of cards, then draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
I don't want to spend too much time writing this or asking you to read it. It's a simple Traveller line that wants to improve Potions. The basic form substitutes itself for the Potion if you want to get rid of your Potion sooner rather than later, or maybe you're also playing with Quicksilver, or something else. I changed Poison to a Night card; I don't remember why, so maybe it'll change back. Recipe makes good use of your Potion if you're done with it, permanently turning it into Gold, which fits perfectly for the Alchemy theme. Ether changed a little bit, losing one frivolous option of 4 options; way too many options and also somewhat redundant. It was originally themed that way as a nod to the four elements of the old science, of which Ether is often called the fifth, but I'm honestly surprised I even remember that Easter egg at this point, so nobody is going to miss it, and people will probably appreciate the text size more. Elixir of Life also changed a little bit, enjoying a boost of permanent +1 Villager to reward your efforts. (Also the +1 Card is new, but you'll hardly notice.) It's a lot different from the original, but that was super weak, not interesting enough, and just plan convoluted. The last thing to mention is that two of the four exchanges give you one more card than you returned, something that's not trivial to notice.

Finally, there are some landscapes, besides the Royal Mages and the Moment of Invisibility.

Quote
It's Alive!
Event
+1 Buy
Discard a non-Victory card for +1 Villager.
Quote
Diviner's Strategy
Event
Look at the top 12 cards of your deck. Discard 2 of them and put the rest back in any order.
Take your -1 Card token.
Quote
Spellbinding
Event
Move your Spellbinding token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile from your hand, play it a second time.)
Quote
Alchemical Disaster
Event
Gain a Duchy. If you did, remove a random Kingdom card pile from the Supply and replace it with a random new pile.
Quote
Magical Coins
Project
When you buy a card, you may spend as though it were .
Quote
Way of the Jackalope
Way
+1 Action
Play a Treasure from the Supply with the same cost as this, leaving it there.
Half of these return from the old version of this expansion. Here's those:
Diviner's Strategy has changed a lot, in name, in cost, and in wording. It used to be this convoluted thing where you would just discard a bunch of cards until you got exactly the 4 cards you wanted. Now it's just 12 cards instead of what was essentially your whole deck. Hopefully the cost makes this more reasonable, but you may find a pattern with these in that I generally don't know how to cost landscapes, lol.
Spellbinding is essentially the same except I think it used to cost more. Hopefully the wording is correct now. Lots of people generously commented to try to help me with that.
Magical Coins is the last returning one. It used to use the token that the Magic cards had, but it got a new wording when that became a Project. A project that cares about another Project is probably jumping the shark. It's mechanically the same as the original version, which I don't think ever made it into this thread until now. Maybe there's a better wording, but this is short and sweet.
On to the three new ones:
It's Alive! is obvious, but it's not obvious what it should cost. Turning a card, a , and a into a Villager might be fine. I wonder if you'll actually want more than one Potion for this.
Alchemical Disaster has an obvious inspiration. I had to figure out some way to limit it, so I chose Duchies, because the difference between and might make some people want to use it when they would've bought a Duchy anyway. It could be a Hail Mary to stop a 3-pile ending, or it could be a gamble to get a Village or +Buy that was missing from the Kingdom so you can go for an engine after your opponent committed to the BM, or any number of other risky tactics.
Way of the Jackalope is the last one. It's a funky hybrid of an Action card and a Treasure card. Seems pretty simple to me, and I don't even have to try to get the cost right, lol. I'm not totally sure about the "same cost" part, but I didn't want every crummy -card to suddenly be a Gold or Platinum. Maybe there's a world where it says "up to."

And that's everything. There are a lot of cards that were in the original post that aren't here any more. The only one that's truly gone is Impostor, which was cute, but didn't need to exist. The only thing it was good for was confusing my dad, then disappointing him when he realized it wasn't actually Nobles. That was fun once. Some Events are also gone, but I'm not really counting that because they were either something DXV eventually did or just plain nonsense that didn't need to exist even back then. All the other ones that are gone aren't actually gone, they're simply repurposed. I've reworked, reworded, or simply renamed them all and put them in other expansions which I'll share soon. Also, most of the artwork is replaced, but more importantly, it's attributed now. Some of the old images I just didn't want to search for, but I did my best for the Knights that survived. Pretty much everything else is new art.

Here are the TTS images, then a selection of the old versions.




Can you see how Queen became Magical Cloak?

Man, I'm glad Delusions are gone.

I don't remember why I named her Isabella.

Quote
Old message of this post:
So here it is, my fan cards that my Dominion group and I mix in with the randomizers.
Detail format
http://imgur.com/a/7D3Lt
Print format
http://imgur.com/a/HeVSr
The primary goal I had when beginning this expansion was to make the Potion games more fun. They seemed to not be worth it, especially with very few cards that cost a potion in a Kingdom. So there are a few new cards that cost potion, a way to avoid buying Potions sometimes, ways to use the Potion for something after you buy what you need, and Events that cost potion.
Once that was done, it just didn't seem to be enough, so I started to do what our beloved DXV can't really do, and combine concepts from different expansions. I combined Alchemy with Adventures, Dark Ages, and Seaside. I combined Dark Ages with Adventures, Alchemy, Cornucopia, Guilds, Prosperity, and Seaside. I combined Adventures with a whole bunch of things and brought a couple Victory Point Tokens back.
I tried not to go overboard with new mechanics, so I only introduced one: a unique card that the other players cannot use, but can still limit you from getting all of them. I recommend each player gets a random one, but you can play however you like. It's designed to encourage playing with different strategies instead of just your favorite way to play. One other mechanic that popped its head up was playing cards when they aren't normally played; this already happens with Storyteller, Caravan Guard, and Black Market, but some of the cards or events have you play Treasures during the Action phase and Actions during the Buy phase. There is even one card that you play during your Clean-up phase.
What I did try to go above and beyond with was type combinations. I added a few that we haven't seen: Treasure-Traveller, Action-Reaction-Reserve, Action-Treasure (which everyone seems to try, but always falls short for me), Action-Attack-Reserve, and, most notably, a bunch of different Knight combos. We have Action-Attack-Knight-Reserve, Action-Attack-Knight-Duration, Action-Attack-Knight-Reaction, and, surprisingly, Action-Knight. There was one card which is an Action-Duration which I was contemplating making simply Duration, but it didn't feel necessary to stipulate that.
There are some tokens that are referred to by the cards and events similarly to Adventures. Four of the cards call for a Magic token, and three events call for Cantrip, Enchantment, and Clock tokens. To mirror the official tokens, that would be 24 tokens, 4 in each color.
Anybody that knows me from reddit may have seen some of these already here. You can also see some comments made in the identical topic on BGG here.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2024, 11:16:03 pm by 461.weavile »
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A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
-
Fan Expansions:
1. Royal Wizardry (formerly "Warlords & Wizards")
2. Pikmin
3. Shantae
4. Rush (Coming Soon)
5. The Legend of Zelda (Coming Soon)
6. Pokemon (Coming Soon)

Roadrunner7671

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2016, 09:14:38 pm »
+1

I don't have anything to say yet (I don't want to start the conversation) but I do want to post later. I'll keep this thread in mind.
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Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

enfynet

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 12:08:04 am »
0

I'm curious, why are you referring to "+1 Card" as a "cantrip" when it doesn't allow another action?
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 12:37:33 am »
+1

I don't think I did get around to comment on your expansion, so here is my critique:

Traveller: I'm not confident enough to critique Traveller lines, altough this one seems kind of weak. Also it feels incoherent, but I don't know if that is a problem.

Quicksilver Why would I ever buy this? I don't think this should be a supply card. The setup is kind of interesting altough I'm not sure how to implement this in a fun way.

Spellcaster I like this one. I see enough strategic depth in there that this makes a worthwile card.

Magical Arrow Seems very weak. I don't see it use at all

Magical Shield The potion part is entirely irrelevant on most of the boards with this. Also, the opportunity cost to get this seems too low.

Magical Hammer this sounds okay, you probably want it a decent amount of times. And this seems the first worthwile Potion overpay. Altough I'm still not sold on the mechanic

magic token My suggestion would be: Instead of overpaying P maybe take the token everytime you have an unused P at the end of your action phase? This seems more interesting to me and it is a more sustained use of the Potion. Price would have to be adjusted, obviously. (Or do you not lose your magic token in your mechanic? That would seem too strong)

Magical sword Seems okay, but the wording is messy, describe what they have to do and then afterwards describe the effect the token has.

Medaillons Yikes, I don't like it at all. Even if you balance them perfectly, they won't be balanced on a lot of boards they appear on. I would even go as far and say that I wouldn't even bother playing some boards when my opponent gets the first choice from these. Maybe they can work if you allow mirrors, but that doesn't seem to be what you would like to do.

Another idea with unique Medaillons: After each turn of playing Magic Symbol you must exchange your Medaillon. (All medaillons are laid out.) In that case nobody can block one Medaillon except he never uses it himself. After thinking about it, I like this idea more than my previous one.

Trinket Finally a silver junker, yay! :) Needs to be played with 12cards for symetry reasons or be returned to the pile instead of being passed.

Tinker This made me laugh. While you avoided the "Potion-Problem" pretty successfully on the potion cards, this one has this problem. What I mean with this: This is a complete dud with no other reserve cards. Dominion is usually played full-random, so you can not avoid having this card be a complete dud very often. Of course, you can house-rule it, but I don't think it is worth it. There is more value lost than gained.

Capitol See Tinker

Warlord Seems good enough to be a one-shot. Being called on a dud looks like a bonus. Don't have any thought on it just yet

King Pretty sure this is one of the least skippable cards in the game. Ignoring the very few rushes, you surely want at least two of these all the time? I'd say it better than wharf, which is saying a lot.

Rook see Tinker: if you want to make this work, make it a non-supply card that can somehow be gained when King or Queen is on the board.

Knights Not many thought on it, but I hate the upgraded Knights, they seem less fun than frustrating. Also a lot of these Knights break the nice 5-5 Knight split where all knights end up in the trash eventually which is, in my opinion, is the only thing that makes them bearable.

Events:

Rewind is too weak. Cantrip okayish, but not sure if I'd get a potion for it, ever.

Enchantment sounds insanely strong, not even sure 6p is expensive enough.

I find surprise attack hilarious. Needs to be once per turn, though.

May comment on the last few later
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 12:38:29 am »
0

I'm curious, why are you referring to "+1 Card" as a "cantrip" when it doesn't allow another action?

Are you referring to the Medaillon? If yes, because it can only be played by playing a "+1action" card first.
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Gubump

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 02:06:53 am »
0

As worded, Enchantment lets you play a card infinite times:

Enchantment:
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, instead play it twice).
Cost: $5P
Event

So I put the E-token on Market. I play a Market. I played it, so instead I play it twice. I played it twice, so I instead play it four times. I played it 4 times, so I instead play it 8 times, ad infinitum.
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tristan

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2016, 07:41:44 am »
+1

Quicksilver is overprized and, as a Copper substitute, pretty powerful in the presence of Remodel (buy Remodel on turn 1/2, remodel it into a Possession in turn 3/4/5) and Remodel-variants.

Gold Leaf would be a decent but not outstanding 7$ card so with 5P it is a bit expensive.

Spellcaster is a great concept. I find it hard to judge how strong it is (obviously it is stronger in multiplayer games) so I would test it at 4P and 3P.

I like Magical Arrow. It is a cheap Lab but you gotta play it during your Cleanup phase so you are vulnerable to handsize attacks and you never want to have more than 1 during a turn.

Cantrip defenses like Magical Shield are problematic for obvious reasons and if they are in addition to that Reserve cards they virtually nullify the power of Attack cards.

About the Medallions, the idea is phantastic. They seem roughly balanced. I particularly like Water, a good variation of a basic gainer. As it is non-terminal it might be a tad too strong. Shadow neatly alleviates for the non-terminal issue why putting the Curse into the hand of the player and Forest will probably get you a a lot of flack here. I think that a cantrip VP token gainer should cost 5$ or 6$. I have played two games with Asper's Hospital and it wasn't the backbone of anybody's strategy but then again the card is designed such that you cannot get a deck with only cantrips VP token gainers as it is a self-spammer (so you'd need some decent trashers in your deck to run such an engine). So I would slightly nerf the card. You could e.g. simply add "discard a card" (although that might be too weak). Don't listen to the folks though who will tell you that a cantrip VP token gainer should never ever be done.

Spellbook is good.

Capitol is, like Lost City, overpowered. Given that Lab is one of the best 5s which you often buy for 6$ "+2 Cards, +2Action" is a pretty good 6$. The card as it is would probably be something between a 6$ and  7$.

I like Mountainer. It incentivizes earlier greening as you could e.g. set aside a Province and call Mountainer for 4.

About the Knights, Castellan is obviously the most radical and IMO the most interesting Knight variant. Clare might be too strong as it attacks twice, Regina should probably cost 5$ (+1 VP is not that strong), Cole is definitely too strong (limit it to one token).

About the events, Rewind would probably be balanced at a cost of P, Cantrip is a good idea (although I would name it differently) and Enchantment is good as well (could be extremely powerful though so I would also test it at 6P). I like Visions a lot but I would make it an Attack-Event such that Reactions can be played normally (and can not be discarded to always defend). Perhaps I am stupid but I do not see the worthwhile War Drums combos as no Attack card provides more than 2 coins (immediately).
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 07:44:48 am by tristan »
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SirMartin

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2016, 12:07:13 pm »
0

I can't really gauge if these cards are overpowered or not, but I really like the new knights. Maybr shuffle all the Knights (including these) and use the top ten? I've only played with Knights twice, but I actually enjoyed them, and having slightly different cards in the same pile is genius.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2016, 12:31:22 pm »
+2

While it's cool that you have full mock-ups and such for printing, I think you'll get much better feedback if you post the text of the cards here in a format we can easily read and respond to.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2016, 12:36:30 pm »
+1

As worded, Enchantment lets you play a card infinite times:

Enchantment:
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, instead play it twice).
Cost: $5P
Event

So I put the E-token on Market. I play a Market. I played it, so instead I play it twice. I played it twice, so I instead play it four times. I played it 4 times, so I instead play it 8 times, ad infinitum.

Similarly, Cantrip doesn't do what I'm guessing you want it to do. As worded, when you play the card, you can first choose to play the card normally, then you still get the normal card effects, so you'll play it twice. Or you could choose to get +1 card +1 action and then you still get the normal card effects.

I guess you want something like "when you play a card from that pile, you may choose to get +1 card +1 action instead of the card's normal effects".
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Asper

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2016, 05:56:19 pm »
+2

I like the idea of Magic Symbol. It basically gives each player a unique power, allthough still tied to a specific kingdom card. Very neat combination of a new mechanic with classic dominion gameplay. I'm not sold on exactly how they work, and i think the balance might be off a bit (but you allready know that). Probably you could do with random tokens instead of cards and have Magic Symbol just say "You get the bonus on your Medallion" or something like that.

Gold Leaf is an Action-Treasure, which i still think is a terrible idea for various rule reasons. You can achieve the same result with a Reaction that you can discard at the start of you buy phase for money (as i did with my Jeweler).

Magical Arrow reacts on being drawn, which is... not exactly pretty. First, it allows you to play it on practically any occasion, be it another player's turn, your cleanup phase, your buy phase, whatever. Of course some of those need support, but the cleanup thing would probably be the best on most boards either way - hey, 5 cards to draw one is a neat chance. At least, it's not nonterminal like Caravan Guard... Second, you can never really prove when a card was drawn, allthough of course Library does a similar thing. Third, you'll play cards inbetween resolving other cards, which is pretty confusing. Imagine playing Smithy, drawing Magic Arrow first, playing Magic Arrow, drawing two more cards. So far, so good. Now play Ironmonger. Draw Arrow, play Arrow, draw Arrow, play Arrow, repeat a bazillon times... oh yeah, and then reveal the top card of your deck and do the rest of Ironmonger. Also, two lines aren't eaxactly pretty, either. Same for Elixir of life.

I think the idea of the magic token is clever in general - it allows to either pay a Potion cost or not, and getting a better card if you do. Of course, it doesn't exactly translate the same as two different cards, as you only need to overpay once, but whatever. I still advise against combining the overpay with yet another ability that requires a dividing line.

Magic Sword is probably the cleanest implementation of the idea. Call me a square, but i think a card concept is cleaner when it's not mixed with something else. It's like Scrying Pool is "some overly-long-worded, weird Spy variant" instead of "draws all your actions" because the attack was unneccessarily mixed in. In a similar vein, the idea of Magic Hammer's duration effect is allready a nice concept, and the idea to have a card that's better if you overpayed Potion is nice. I suggest to make two cards of that. If not, i suggest switching the order so the "this-turn" effect is listed before the "next turn" effect.

Trinket: Everybody is doing the passing card thing now. I'm still not sold on it, allthough i admit a similar card, LastFootnote's Wanderer, worked nicely in 2-player games. Have you tested it in multiplayer?

In the absence of other Potion cards, Spellbook is a tad weak. You could try it costing a single Potion, or add a buy. Either way, it would be decent enough at picking up copies of itself simply for the Market/Peddler aspect to be worth it. Woah, it's simple and i still complain about it. Sorry for that, i hope it's at least a bit helpful.

When Tinker is the only Reserve card, it does nothing but pick up copies of itself.

Capitol's non-Duration clause is really weird. If it was something more common that actually influences the way you have to play (like "an attack card"), i'd say it would be neat, allthough i'd still make a different card of it. Durations are just much too diverse in what they do to actually feel like Capitol influences how you have to play. That aside, the VP aspect is fine, and i guess the card isn't too complex with it. I'd still remove the Duration clause or do something else in that vein on another card.

Warlord + Big Money, hooray! No, seriously, trash engine components, play Treasures, repeat.

Wizard's penalty again is something that won't matter quite often, and i'm not sure why it should be there. It's like the attack-gaining aspect of Squire, just that Squire is much simpler than Wizard.

Mountainer is nice. I like it.

Queen is an Oasis that attacks the first two times. I don't think it's strong enough.

Rook will very often be useless, either because the referenced cards are not on the board, or because there are not dual-type cards in the kingdom.

Castellan is worse than Swindler (edit: of course i mean) Smugglers in my opinion, because you don't even know what you'll gain before you play it. Sure, with multiple players it gets better, but that still doesn't excuse costing it at more than $4. And yes, it interacts with itself, but that's neither a plus nor a minus, as you can just as well unwittingly give a bonus to another player.

I think Dame bridget is okay, but probably the Bridge effect itself is decent enough without influencing the attack. (Edit: oh, man... BRIDGEt... Have +1 just for that pun)

Dame Regina could probably cost $5. One point per play isn't that much, allthough of course Knight games take longer.

Sir Robin should totally run away.

Rewind seems... Oddly familiar.

Enchantment will play the card infinitely.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 04:24:00 am by Asper »
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Gubump

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2016, 06:21:48 pm »
0

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Fragasnap

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2016, 05:59:36 pm »
+3

Ah, didn't see this was posted here as well as BoardGameGeek.
Transcribed:
Quote
Lead
Types: Treasure, Traveller
Cost: $1P
$1P. When you play this, +1 Buy
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Poison.
Quote
Poison
Types: Action, Attack, Traveller
Cost: $2P*
+1 Action. Each other player may discard a Victory card from his hand. Each other player who does not gains a Curse.
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Potion and a Recipe.
Quote
Recipe
Types: Action, Traveller
Cost: $3P*
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, you may gain a card costing up to $2 and a P more than the trashed card and put it on top of your deck.
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for an Ether.
Quote
Ether
Types: Action, Traveller
Cost: $4P*
Choose one: +1 Card and +2 Actions; or gain a Silver and a Potiton and put them into your hand; or return up to 4 cards from your hand to the Supply; or +2 Cards and put 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck.
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Gold and an Elixir of Life
Quote
Elixir of Life
Types: Action, Reaction, Reserve
Cost: $5P*
+1 Action. Put this on your Tavern mat.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are not affected by that Attack.
At the start of your turn, you may call this to trash a card from your hand. If the trashed card is a Potion, gain a Gold and put it into your hand, or if it is a Curse, gain a Duchy. Otherwise, +1 Card.

Quote
Quicksilver
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4P
$2P. When you play this, trash this card. Gain a card costing up to $2P.
Setup: Each player removes one Copper from his deck and adds 1 Quicksilver before shuffling.

Quote
Gold Leaf
Types: Action, Treasure
Cost: $5P
When you play this during your Action phase: +2 Cards, +1 Action.
$3. When you play this during your Buy phase, +1 Buy.

Quote
Spellcaster
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $4P
Each other player plays a Delusion from the Delusion pile. Choose a player and take a Coin token for each Delusion he has in play.
Quote
Wizard
Types: Action, Attack, Duration
Cost: $5
At the start of your next turn, +$2 and choose one: Each other player plays a Delusion from the Delusion pile and draws a card; or each other player takes his -1 Card token and discards down to 4 cards in hand; or each other player gains 2 Coppers and puts one into his hand.
While this is in play, you cannot reveal any Reaction cards or call any Reserve cards.
Quote
Delusion
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $0*
At the start of each of your turns, discard a Treasure from your hand or reveal a hand with no Treasures.
At the start of Clean-Up during your turn, if you did not buy anything this turn, you may return this to the Delusion pile and stop discarding a Treasure every turn.

Quote
Magical Arrow
Types: Action, Reaction
Cost: $1+
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +2 Cards.
When you draw this, if you have your Magic token, you may play this card from your hand.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magical Shield
Types: Action, Reserve
Cost: $2+
+1 Card, +1 Action. Put this on your Tavern mat.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your Tavern mat. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack. If you have your Magic token, you may put this on top of your deck. If you do, discard a card.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magical Hammer
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $4+
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do: During your next turn +$1 when you play an Action. And if you have your Magic token, +1 Action per $ the trashed card costs.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magic Sword
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $5+
+1 Card, +1 Action. If you have your Magic token, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand reveals it and puts a card from it that you choose on top of his deck. Either way, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand puts one on top of his deck.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magic Symbol
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Play your Medallion and set it aside.
Setup: Each player randomly takes one Medallion and sets it aside. The other Medallions are returned to the box.
Quote
Light Medallion +1 Card, +$1
Quote
Water Medallion Gain a card costing up to $4. If it costs $3, put it on top of your deck. If it costs $2, put it into your hand.
Quote
Forest Medallion +1 Card, +1VP
Quote
Shadow Medallion (Attack) Each other player gains a Curse, putting it into his hand.
Quote
Fire Medallion Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Trash it or put it into your hand and discard the other cards.
Quote
Spirit Medallion +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy
Quote
Time Medallion Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded. Discard any number of cards. +$1 per card discarded the second time.
Quote
Darkness Medallion +2 Cards. Reveal 2 cards from your hand and discard them. For each differently named card revealed, if it is an... Action Card: +1 Action; Treasure Card: +$1 and +1 Buy; Victory Card: +1 Card.

Quote
Trinket
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
$2. When you play this, put it into the discard pile of the player to your left.
When you buy this, each player gains a Trinket (including you).

Quote
Spell Book
Types: Action
Cost: $3P
+1 Card, +1 Action, +$1P.

Quote
Tinker
Types: Action, Reserve
Cost: $3
Put this on your Tavern mat.
When you put another card on your Tavern mat, you may call this to gain another copy of it. You may trash this. If you do, put the card on your Tavern mat.
When you buy this, put it on your Tavern mat.

Quote
Capitol
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +2 Actions. Choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +$1.
You can't buy this if you have any Duration cards in play. When you buy this, +1VP per unused action you have (action, not Action card).

Quote
Warlord
Types: Action, Attack, Reserve
Cost: $5
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes 2 of them costing $3 to $7, and discards the rest. Put this on your Tavern mat.
At the start of your turn, you may call this for +$2, then your Action phase ends.

Quote
Mountaineer
Types: Action, Reserve
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Put a card from your hand on your Tavern mat. If you do, put this on your Tavern mat.
At the start of your turn, you may call this to discard a card from your Tavern mat. +$ equal to half its cost. (Round up)

Quote
Imposter
Types: Action, Victory
Cost: $5
Choose one: +2 Cards; or +$2.
2VP

Quote
King
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $5
+1 Card, +1 Action. If this is the first King you played, at the start of your next turn: +3 Cards.

Quote
Queen
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. Each player (including you) with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.

Quote
Rook
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Actions, +$2. If you have a King, Queen, or Knight card in play, +1 Card. The next two Action cards you play from your hand this turn must have more than one card type.

Quote
Castellan
Types: Action, Knight
Cost: $5
Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck and discards them. You may gain a copy of one of the revealed cards costing from $3 to $6. If a Knight card was revealed, +$2.

Quote
Dame Bridget
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest. If a Knight is trashed by this, trash this card.
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less, but not less than $0.
Quote
Dame Cassandra
Types: Action, Attack, Knight, Reserve
Cost: $5
*Knight effect* Put this on your Tavern mat.
At the start of your turn, you may call this to choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +$1
Quote
Dame Clare
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn: *Knight effect*
Quote
Sir Cole
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
*Knight effect* Each other player chooses one: take their -1 Card token and -$1 token; or gain an Estate and a Curse.
Quote
Dame Isabelle
Types: Action, Attack, Knight, Reaction
Cost: $4
*Knight effect*
When one of your cards costing from $3 to $6 is trashed, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, put the trashed card into your discard pile and gain a copy of it.
Quote
Sir Nicholas
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
Take a Coin token. *Knight effect*
Quote
Sir Peter
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
*Knight effect* (but you can gain one card another player trashes)
Quote
Dame Regina
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $6
+1VP. *Knight effect*
Quote
Sir Robin
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
+$1. When you buy this or play this, *Knight effect* (but you only trash Sir Robin if you played it)
Quote
Sir Zachary
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $6
*Knight effect*
When you discard this from play, you may trash it. If you do, gain a White Knight or a Black Knight.
Quote
White Knight
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $0*
*Knight effect* (but is not trashed when trashing other Knight cards) If no player trashed a card by this, you may gain a Prize (from the Prize pile) or a Duchy. Otherwise. +1 Action.
Quote
Black Knight
Types: Action, Attack, Knight, Duration
Cost: $0*
*Knight effect* (but is not trashed when trashing other Knight cards) At the start of each of your turns, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$1 per $ it costs and +1 Card and +$2 if it has P in its cost.

Quote
Cantrip
Types: Event
Cost: $2P
Move your Cantrip token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile, first choose one: either +1 Card and +1 Action or play the Action normally.

Quote
Enchantment
Types: Event
Cost: $5P
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile, play it twice.)

Quote
Rewind
Types: Event
Cost: $2P
+1 Buy. At the start of Clean-Up this turn, you may choose an Action card you have in play. If you discard it from play this turn, put it on your deck.

Quote
Visions
Types: Event
Cost: $3P
+1 Buy. Each other player may discard a Reaction card from his hand. Each player who does not reveals his hand. You may choose one of the revealed cards and play it. Return that card to the hand of its owner during your Clean-Up phase.

Quote
Time Slip
Types: Event
Cost: $1P
If you Clock token is not on a Supply pile, choose a Kingdom card from the Supply. Put one copy of it into your discard pile and put your Clock token on its pile. (When you buy a card with your Clock token on it, you may return it to its pile and remove your Clock token. If you Clock token is on a Supply pile, -3VP.

Quote
Battlefield
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy. Each player (starting with the player to your left) may reveal and discard a card from his hand. The player that discarded the card with the highest cost in coins gains a Spoils from the Spoils pile.

Quote
Battle Strategy
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Look at cards from your deck and either discard them or set them aside until you have set aside 4 cards. Put them on top of your deck in any order. Put your -1 Card token on your deck.

Quote
Surprise Attack
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy. You may play an Action card from your hand. Discard it.

Quote
Hidden Trap
Types: Event
Cost: $2+
+1 Buy. Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, play it or discard it.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, set aside the card face-down.

Quote
War Drums
Types: Event
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Once per turn: Choose an Attack card you have in play and play it two more times. Other players cannot gain cards by this.
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461.weavile

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2016, 01:15:34 am »
0

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, and thanks Fragasnap for transcribing them into text for everyone.

For now I'm going to interrupt only to point out false information. I really like seeing the feedback and I hope for a bit more discussion before I argue to keep things the way they are or change anything. A bunch of these cards had previous versions; if anybody wants to see those, I can link/transcribe them.

I'm curious, why are you referring to "+1 Card" as a "cantrip" when it doesn't allow another action?

Magic Symbol: +1 Action, play your Medallion. I wasn't sure I wanted to put "+1 Action" on every Medallion just because they all do the same thing.

I would even go as far and say that I wouldn't even bother playing some boards when my opponent gets the first choice from these.

You don't get to pick which Medallion you get. You could make a house rule for that (compounding house rules here), but I don't see that being fun.

As worded, Enchantment lets you play a card infinite times:

Enchantment:
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, instead play it twice).
Cost: $5P
Event

If it said "when you play an Action from that pile" you would be right, but you don't play the card multiple times, just the Action.

Magical Arrow reacts on being drawn, which is... not exactly pretty. First, it allows you to play it on practically any occasion, be it another player's turn, your cleanup phase, your buy phase, whatever. Of course some of those need support, but the cleanup thing would probably be the best on most boards either way - hey, 5 cards to draw one is a neat chance. At least, it's not nonterminal like Caravan Guard... Second, you can never really prove when a card was drawn, allthough of course Library does a similar thing. Third, you'll play cards inbetween resolving other cards, which is pretty confusing. Imagine playing Smithy, drawing Magic Arrow first, playing Magic Arrow, drawing two more cards. So far, so good. Now play Ironmonger. Draw Arrow, play Arrow, draw Arrow, play Arrow, repeat a bazillon times... oh yeah, and then reveal the top card of your deck and do the rest of Ironmonger.

This one probably would get the same FAQ as Stash, because when you draw cards, you draw them all at the same time, not one after the other. During Clean-up, you draw 5 cards at the same time; if you draw one or more Magical Arrows, put them all in play, then draw more cards (together). When you play a Smithy, you draw 3 cards at the same time; if you draw Magical Arrow, you're welcome to play it or keep it in your hand, but it doesn't do anything except sit there. (This would be different with Library, it would either get set aside or put directly into play, because those are drawn one at a time, but you still aren't going to draw cards because of Magical Arrow and it won't count as one of your 7 cards unless you needed a useless card in your hand.) During your turn, Magical Arrow theoretically shouldn't be more annoying than your dad showing you that he drew an Estate instead of a usable card, then realizing he will play Madman and have to count that Estate that he left on the table in front of him. The main idea behind Magical Arrow is that it should be played when it isn't your Action phase for it to work, Durations make it weaker, and it's vulnerable to attacks. I can see some edge case arising where you buy Bonfire, trash the only action cards you have in play, and one says "When you trash this, draw a card." then you draw Magical Arrow and can play it to draw 2 more cards, but that edge case wouldn't happen if you were intending to trash the card to draw, because you can't play anything you draw after buying something anyway; on the other hand, there may be fan cards that trash things in play during the Action phase (other than Procession, etc, which won't clear the board entirely). If there are plausible edge cases that I missed, let me know and we can address them. I don't think this can happen in the middle of playing another Action, because I can't think of any that clears itself from play, then draws cards, then does something else; Madman comes close, and Urchin might've broken it if we were discussing an Attack card. ....that was a lot of blathering. This one definitely would need an FAQ.

Capitol's non-Duration clause is really weird. ... the VP aspect is fine, and i guess the card isn't too complex with it. I'd still remove the Duration clause or do something else in that vein on another card.

This clause was not added frivolously, and I'm marginally sad that I had to add it, but it's not flavor text, it's necessary.

Enchantment will play the card infinitely.

I still disagree, but now it's two votes against one. Maybe I need to hit the books harder. Can anyone point me in the correct direction?

Once more, thanks for investigating my work, everybody. I'll comment on some feelings later, (such as how I like Asper's solution to the Action-Treasure dilemma,) but I think pointing out misconceptions should be step one.
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Asper

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2016, 06:52:10 am »
0

This one probably would get the same FAQ as Stash, because when you draw cards, you draw them all at the same time, not one after the other. During Clean-up, you draw 5 cards at the same time; if you draw one or more Magical Arrows, put them all in play, then draw more cards (together). When you play a Smithy, you draw 3 cards at the same time; if you draw Magical Arrow, you're welcome to play it or keep it in your hand, but it doesn't do anything except sit there. (This would be different with Library, it would either get set aside or put directly into play, because those are drawn one at a time, but you still aren't going to draw cards because of Magical Arrow and it won't count as one of your 7 cards unless you needed a useless card in your hand.) During your turn, Magical Arrow theoretically shouldn't be more annoying than your dad showing you that he drew an Estate instead of a usable card, then realizing he will play Madman and have to count that Estate that he left on the table in front of him. The main idea behind Magical Arrow is that it should be played when it isn't your Action phase for it to work, Durations make it weaker, and it's vulnerable to attacks. I can see some edge case arising where you buy Bonfire, trash the only action cards you have in play, and one says "When you trash this, draw a card." then you draw Magical Arrow and can play it to draw 2 more cards, but that edge case wouldn't happen if you were intending to trash the card to draw, because you can't play anything you draw after buying something anyway; on the other hand, there may be fan cards that trash things in play during the Action phase (other than Procession, etc, which won't clear the board entirely). If there are plausible edge cases that I missed, let me know and we can address them. I don't think this can happen in the middle of playing another Action, because I can't think of any that clears itself from play, then draws cards, then does something else; Madman comes close, and Urchin might've broken it if we were discussing an Attack card. ....that was a lot of blathering. This one definitely would need an FAQ.

The official rules certainly imply that you draw cards one at a time, otherwise Smithy would be unable to draw three cards if you have one card in your deck and two in your discard pile. Of course you can disagree on that, but even if you define your card to be revealed only after someone is finished resolving a drawing instruction, examples like Ironmonger - or any cantrip, for that matter, still stand.

If you insist on doing it the simultaneous way, it even introduces more problems. Let's say i play a Smithy and then a Magical Arrow. Then another, then another. How is another player supposed to know i didn't have a few Magical Arrows in my hand at the start of my turn? How would he catch me if i cheat? Is he supposed to very closely follow which cards in my hand are from when? Good luck with that. Library makes cristal clear you set aside a freshly drawn card immediately, so there's no room to confuse them with something you had in your hand before. Magical Arrow doesn't. So it introduces playing cards while resolving cards, depends on an arguable rules definition and is not accountable. If it went with the one-at-a-time ruling, it would be accountable again, but instead worsen the recursive card playing a lot.

This clause was not added frivolously, and I'm marginally sad that I had to add it, but it's not flavor text, it's necessary.

Both Champion Bonfire and Procession allow removing Champion from play after playing it. Normally that's not a good idea, as you don't get any benefit from it. With Wizard, it becomes a good idea. According to official ruling, Champion will still give its benefit after being trashed from play. Even if it wouldn't, Bonfire would still work with this. The fact that Wizard's on-buy scales crazily thanks to Champion is bad. It's worse to have that without being able to see how many Champions you have in play because Wizard's clause practically demands you to trash them.

I still disagree, but now it's two votes against one. Maybe I need to hit the books harder. Can anyone point me in the correct direction?

When you play, you play. It's induction. If Enchantment said something like "when [...] from your hand", the result wouldn't equal the condition.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 12:44:53 pm by Asper »
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2016, 09:45:51 am »
0

I still disagree, but now it's two votes against one. Maybe I need to hit the books harder. Can anyone point me in the correct direction?

Here's an example that uses similar logic:
Say somebody gives you a curse that states that "whenever you would eat a cookie, you must instead eat 2." So, you decide to eat a cookie. You would eat a cookie, but you must instead eat 2. Each time you would eat one of those cookies, however, you would eat a cookie, but you must instead eat 2. Each time you would eat one of those cookies, you would eat a cookie, and therefore must instead eat 2, ad infinitum.

^This works for the same reason as Enchantment: You start a repetition loop, but the conditions for repeating are always satisfied. In other words, you didn't close the loop. Here's a couple different wordings for Enchantment that work:

Enchantment:
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile. When you play a card from that pile, resolve it twice.
Cost: $5P
Event
^Works the exact way you want it to.

Enchantment
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile. When you play a card from that pile from your hand, play it again immediately after resolving it.
Cost: $5P
Event
^Doesn't quite work the way you want it to, because then it doesn't work the same way with the various Throne Room variants.

By the way, I would give it a cost limit (I recommend $4) because Enchanting Possession, which costs strictly more than it, is stupidly powerful.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2016, 01:10:28 pm »
+1

As worded, Enchantment lets you play a card infinite times:

Enchantment:
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, instead play it twice).
Cost: $5P
Event

If it said "when you play an Action from that pile" you would be right, but you don't play the card multiple times, just the Action.


Unlike Magic, Dominion doesn't have such a concept of a difference between the "card" and "the action that the card is".  Look at Throne Room. It says "Choose an action card in your hand. Play it twice." "It" is "the action card", not "the action". You do play "the card" twice.

You can simply say "when you play a card from that pile, first get all the effects of playing that card", or something.

*Edit* Oh, Asper's idea is better. "When you would play a card from that pile from your hand, instead play it twice." Note also the "would". If you're using "instead", it needs to be pared with a "would".
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 01:14:00 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2016, 01:17:07 pm »
0

This one probably would get the same FAQ as Stash, because when you draw cards, you draw them all at the same time, not one after the other. During Clean-up, you draw 5 cards at the same time; if you draw one or more Magical Arrows, put them all in play, then draw more cards (together). When you play a Smithy, you draw 3 cards at the same time; if you draw Magical Arrow, you're welcome to play it or keep it in your hand, but it doesn't do anything except sit there

This is the opposite of the Stash faq. You do draw cards 1 at a time, which matters for things like Stash (and Library).

*Edit* Hmm, the Stash FAQ doesn't actually seem to say that specifically. At least not on the Wiki. But I'm quite sure you're allowed to draw a few cards, reshuffle, and look at your new hand before deciding where to put Stash.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 01:22:16 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2016, 02:34:34 pm »
0

I feel i wasn't as helpful as i should have been with my last comment. Part of that might have been that i remembered having a discussion about on-draw reactions before, and i thought i remembered the person from back then to be stubborn about it, which might have caused me to be more grumpy than appropriate. So, sorry for that.

I wasn't even aware Magic uses such a distinction between card and effect. Interesting.

Also, i'm not sure how bad the VP clause on Wizard is. At the very least, it's limited how many times you can abuse that feature, normally. And well, Diadem can allready be used to abuse Champion's action giving, just not as straightforward as Wizard. And, of course Diadem's effect is less and not as reliably available.

About Enchantment being stronger than Possession, sometimes two copies of a card are better than one that does the effect twice, such as when your one copy misses the reshuffle, or when an attack like Pillage or Saboteur might cost you your only copy.
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2016, 02:38:57 pm »
0


I wasn't even aware Magic uses such a distinction between card and effect. Interesting.


Yeah, it generally comes up when an effect refers to a "creature". "Creature" is defined as an object on the battlefield (aka a permanent) that has the type "creature". So a card in your hand that's a creature card can't be affected by something that deals with a "creature". But an effect could specify that it deals with a "creature card" instead, as in "search your library for a creature card".

Although really in this case, the Magic thing that's closer is the idea of copying spells. A copy of a spell isn't "cast", but it still acts just like the spell. This allows the existence of effects like "whenever you cast an instant spell, copy that spell", which is the effect the OP wants. Because you copied the spell, you get another copy of that spell, and now you have 2 of them, which will resolve one at a time. But the copy wasn't "cast", so it doesn't repeatedly trigger itself. But in Dominion, you can't "copy an action" without playing the action again.
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2016, 04:02:57 pm »
+2

So I really thought the drawing thing was the opposite of what GendoIkari said, but I, too, cannot find where I got my information.

Now that Asper said a bit more on the topic, I really think we're still misunderstanding each other. Magical Arrow says
Quote
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +2 Cards.
Asper has now used this example twice:
Quote
Let's say I play a Smithy and then a Magical Arrow.
At first, I thought it was just a generic example, but now I think Asper is actually trying to play Magical Arrow while there are other cards in play.

Gabump, thanks for trying to give me a visualization, but it didn't really match my explanation. It was only validated by GendoIkari (again, with the insight) saying that an Action isn't distinguished from its card.

Also, Asper, I think you keep calling Capitol "Wizard" instead...
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2016, 04:24:23 pm »
0

So I really thought the drawing thing was the opposite of what GendoIkari said, but I, too, cannot find where I got my information.

Now that Asper said a bit more on the topic, I really think we're still misunderstanding each other. Magical Arrow says
Quote
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +2 Cards.
Asper has now used this example twice:
Quote
Let's say I play a Smithy and then a Magical Arrow.
At first, I thought it was just a generic example, but now I think Asper is actually trying to play Magical Arrow while there are other cards in play.

Gabump, thanks for trying to give me a visualization, but it didn't really match my explanation. It was only validated by GendoIkari (again, with the insight) saying that an Action isn't distinguished from its card.

Also, Asper, I think you keep calling Capitol "Wizard" instead...

Damned, now i feel really stupid... Sorry for that. You are right on both accounts. I especially don't know why i missed the restriction on Magic Arrow. Hmm... I guess when you can't play it if other cards are in play, some problems i mentioned go away. I still think most users here will agree the official rules imply you draw cards one at a time, and that no player can really track whether you actually drew a Magic Arrow just now or had it in hand before, which keeps my concerns on rules issues and accountability intact.
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2016, 05:08:41 pm »
+1

I guess I can start commenting on suggestions now. Here are some options to change

Quote
Magical Arrow
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +2 Cards.
--
When you draw this, if you have your Magic token, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, when you finish drawing, play this card from your hand.
--
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magical Arrow
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +1 Card.
--
When you would draw this, if you have your Magic token, you may instead set this card aside. If you do, when you are finished drawing, play this card.
--
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magical Arrow
+2 Cards
--
You cannot play this card from your hand if you have any cards in play other than Magical Arrows.
--
When you draw this, if you have your Magic token, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, when you finish drawing, play this card from your hand.
--
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.
This version has 4 segments, just for Asper's viewing pleasure. XD

Quote
Magical Shield
+(2)
Put this on your Tavern mat.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your Tavern mat, if you do, you are unaffected by that Attack. If you have your Magic token, you may put this on top of your deck.
--
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Tinker
+1 Action
+(2)
Put this on your Tavern mat.
--
When you put another card on your Tavern mat, you may call this to gain another copy of it. You may trash this. If you do, put the card on your Tavern mat.
--
When you buy this, put it on your Tavern mat.

Quote
Capitol
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Choose one: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +(1).
--
When you buy this, +1 VP per unused action you have.

Quote
Capitol
+2 Actions
Choose two: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy +(1).
--
When you buy this, +1 VP per unused action you have.

Quote
Queen
+1 Card
+1 Action
+(1)
You may trash a card from your hand
Each other player with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.

Quote
Queen
+1 Card
+1 Action
+(1)
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand.

Quote
Rook
+1 Card
+2 Actions
+(2)
The next two Action cards you play from your hand this turn must have more than one card type.

Quote
Castellan
+(2)
Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck and discards them. Any player that reveals a Knight reveals another card and discards it. You may gain a copy of one of the revealed cards costing from (3) to (6).

Quote
Cantrip
Move your Cantrip token to an Action Supply pile. (During your Action phases, you may reveal a card from that pile from your hand and discard it. If you do, +1 Card.)

Quote
Enchantment
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile from your hand, play it a second time.)

Quote
Enchantment
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile costing up to (5)P.

Quote
Enchantment
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile costing no more than this.

Any other suggestions?
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2016, 07:15:34 pm »
0

Just noticed a fairly large derp.

Let's fix that:

Quote
Tinker
+1 Action
+(2)
Put this on your Tavern mat.
--
When you put a card on your Tavern mat from play, you may call this to gain a copy of it.
You may trash this. If you do, put the card on your Tavern mat.
--
When you buy this, put it on your Tavern mat.

EDIT: It's still derp. Let's try again:

Quote
Tinker
+1 Action
+(2)
You may put this on your Tavern mat.
--
When you put another card on your Tavern mat from play, you may call this to gain a copy of it.
You may trash this. If you do, put the gained card on your Tavern mat.
Also debating whether it should cost 3 or 4, but opening 2 would let you empty the pile somewhat quickly, and the only thing that happens to you is you get a bunch of "Silvers" or you could trash them like nothing happened
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 01:01:52 am by 461.weavile »
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2016, 06:09:27 am »
0

I went again over the  Medallions which are IMO the most innovative idea in this set:

Light is a Peddler and Spirit a Worker's Village so they are perfectly priced at 4$.

Time is a non-terminal Storeroom and probably thus a bit too strong.

Forest is probably also a bit too strong as it is a cantrip VP token gainer which I would test at 5$.

Fire is either a cantrip or a discard-trasher and probably OK.

Shadow is problematic as it is a non-terminal Attack but hand like Sea Hag it does nothing positive for the player and the hand-gaining probably roughly compensates for the non-terminality.

Water is a tad strong. It is always like an Ironworks that gains an Action card, i.e. a non-terminal gainer. It is weaker than Ironworks as you cannot get a card or a coin instead of an action but it is stronger due to the topdecking or handgaining. IMO it is more often than not better than Ironworks.

Darkness is far overpowered. Without the discarding it is a Lab. Unless you play an engine with virtually no treasures the discarding never hurts you so it is probably stronger than a Lab. I think that the card is a good 6$ / weak 7$.
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