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[EFHW]

vote: Awaclus

[Witherweaver]

This was my idea of proposing the massclaim.  Scum would have to claim under the assumption that there is a PR that isn't actually there.  This could get them into problems with fake claiming.  I would claim after everyone else.  Though, they may have just ended up all claiming VT anyway.

Thinking there was a PR that wasn't there shouldn't have tripped them up.  They would have made sure not to create too many PR's just in case you were lying.

Why would they think I was lying?

Also, what were you thinking when you were talking of asking a question?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus's WW vote without explanation is also scummy, because this really seems like a town maneuver.

Are you kidding me? No way this seems like a town maneuver. This is orders of magnitude more ridiculous than me changing my claim in Buffy/Angel and I got lynched over that twice in that game (correctly so).

[Teproc]

I don't know about EFHW, but I was thinking that you shot last night and we could have asked if there was a protective PR out there, if not whoever you shot was definitely scum since roleblocker is no more.

I was insistent about this because I believed town!WW would shoot 99% of the time last night and would have argued for your lynch if you claimed otherwise.

WW, please post your QT here. You can do it, with these restrictions (from the rules in the thread) :

9. All players will be given a personal QT to post thoughts, ideas in throughout the game. Scum can use these to pretend to be town. Night actions may be submitted to the mod, as may mod questions. Content from QTs may be posted within the thread verbatim, but not linked. Any interaction with the mod (asking questions, receiving answers, friendly banter, or any other content that deals with the mod or references the mod should not be posted. If you aren't sure, ask).

PPE : Were you scum ? if not, that wasn't a correct lynch.

[Awaclus]

PPE : Were you scum ? if not, that wasn't a correct lynch.

Yes.

[Witherweaver]

I asked Yuma, and he showed me that as well.  Here is my QT, reverse order, only skipping Yuma's messages and when I asked him if I could post it:

Hooray.

I'm considering doing something crazy this game

So I guess to get down for posterity's sake on why I claimed this. The biggest reason was that I just wanted to see what would happen. Also, gauging reactions. If I ever get lynched scum is going to expect me to actually flip vig. I'm also hoping to eat up some scum shots, either a kill or block/something at some point. I'm not 100% sure if that will happen.. it's going to depend on if they think I'm actually a threat. I'm hoping that I'm seen as a bit of someone that will make my own decisions despite town consensus, so if I end up with good reads I might be targeted for kill/block/whatever. Scum could even use a protective shot on themselves at some point.

I'm not going to shoot tonight!

I didn't get quite as much reaction as I wanted to from my claim. Maybe I can get something else on reread. ADK was particularly quick to jump on pro-town me.

I think Ash knows I'm fake claiming.. he probably thinks so because he's a Vig. Which is actually flawed, because I think a duplicate PR has as much chance of coming up as two different PRs. Though I could be wrong there.

Hydrad escalation was kind of weird. I did think his response to RR was pretty scummy.

What the heck? Ash gets lynched before I even see the thread is unlocked? This is insane.

For what it's worth, I believed Ash's claim when I read it. I was going to vote XP, and then saw I couldn't even post. That's pretty ridiculous. Well, I haven't actually read any of the day, but I do sympathize with Ash here.. he has to constantly fight his meta, as both alignments.

Wonder if my thing about Gkrieg being XP's partner will get me scum attention. I would love to take a night kill. It may be too obvious for scum to do if Gkrieg actually is scum?

I should probably check what PRs they actually can have. But if I get them to waste a shot that's a plus.

Teproc I actually think is town; he doesn't play scum like this usually.

Scummiest on XP wagon are Gkrieg and EFHW, maybe EgorK. If only one of them is scum, RR is a good candidate for the last partner.

Wonder if people are going to hate me after this game~. It's going to be bad if we get to me vs. someone at LyLo. Will probably come clean at that point, but other town is going to have a hard time not lynching a liar. That's what lost me my very first game, actually~

Which is why eating a night kill would be ideal. I assume scum would not Rolecop me (if they have it), as they shouldn't think I'd lie.

I'm considering coming clean tomorrow if I'm alive. It could look scummy because scum!me would have to come up with an excuse to not shoot as well, and people might think this is how scum would play it.

I could also just lie deeper and claim my 'target' (Gkrieg?) just didn't die. We lynched the Roleblocker, so that's too bad. So scum would have had to use a Bulletproof shot. If they didn't happen to use the shot, scum would have to know I'm lying as town at that point, which would be interesting. If I go this direction (probably a very bad idea) I have to be really confident in Gkrieg, which I'm not yet. All in all seems too risky. And I'll look a lot like caught scum if anything doesn't add up.

Oh snap.. if I'm alive tomorrow, maybe I should argue for a masslcaim. And I direct it. Is it possible that scum can get caught in a fake claim by assuming town has more PRs than we actually do? I might have to investigate the setup more. Could be interesting.

I'm leaning RR as a partner. RR/Gkrieg? I'm bad at reading RR.

I really don't think Teproc. That Ash fight sounds like Teproc thought Ash was scum since the Day 1 hammer and fit all his thinking around that idea throughout Day 2. I think scum Teproc knows it looks bad, and Town Teproc is sure enough in his own reads to get some blinders on. I don't think scum!Teproc is bold enough to WIFOM that position.

ADK looks townie on the XP wagon. He's skeptical, XP scummily posts, ADK votes. It's not a sure thing, but it's reasonable.

Egork maybe townie, hard to say. He posts so little. But 100% a partner buses XP on Day 2 and Day 3, and both Egor and Gkrieg fit that. Gkrieg's looks scummier.

SS voting Ash is bad.. that's possible there. EFHW is possible too; I don't read her very well.

RR vote for Ash on r#369 is really bad. I can't see myself not lynching RR sometime this game.

Oh, Awaclus is still alive. Damn. He could easily be scum there with that Ash vote.

Okay, guess I was wrong about Gkrieg.

Well, bumps up Egor as the possible busser, and makes me want to reconsider Teproc.

Awaclus could be scum here.. he is awful conscious of how many potential PRs town has.

Fun fact, ADK had already been killed when I said he looked townie for his XP vote. Too bad that wasn't in the thread, could have claimed townslip~

RR may have showed town there with "Probably not the day Ash was lynched, but probably on the day XP was lynched. But who knows? I want to hear more from EFHW and Teproc." It sounds as if he's not thinking from a position of XP's partner when confronted with a guilty result against XP. We'll see what his explanation is. I guess it would be good if I could cross off RR.

I don't like SS here.

Hmm.. could maybe be breadcrumbing a PR result; or trying to fabricate one.

Though Egor's "you'd do better to look elsewhere" or whatever message sounded like a soft PR claim.

I think if there are two PR claims and only two, then they are confirmed and I'll come clean as VT.

I think we have four PRs regardless of what the claimants are, since we had a Rolecop flip.

(then I ask Yuma if I can post and he quotes that rule)

[Witherweaver]

Oh, shoot, I'm not sure if that first message counts as 'friendly banter'.

[silverspawn]

WW doesn't like me 

[Witherweaver]

WW doesn't like me 

That was in response to your enigmatic vote on EgorK.

[Witherweaver]

okay, I don't like this. vote: Egork

This one.

[Witherweaver]

Awaclus's WW vote without explanation is also scummy, because this really seems like a town maneuver.

Are you kidding me? No way this seems like a town maneuver. This is orders of magnitude more ridiculous than me changing my claim in Buffy/Angel and I got lynched over that twice in that game (correctly so).

.. You were scum, and your claim was awful and continuously made up on the spot.

[Witherweaver]

I don't know about EFHW, but I was thinking that you shot last night and we could have asked if there was a protective PR out there, if not whoever you shot was definitely scum since roleblocker is no more.

I was insistent about this because I believed town!WW would shoot 99% of the time last night and would have argued for your lynch if you claimed otherwise.

WW, please post your QT here. You can do it, with these restrictions (from the rules in the thread) :

9. All players will be given a personal QT to post thoughts, ideas in throughout the game. Scum can use these to pretend to be town. Night actions may be submitted to the mod, as may mod questions. Content from QTs may be posted within the thread verbatim, but not linked. Any interaction with the mod (asking questions, receiving answers, friendly banter, or any other content that deals with the mod or references the mod should not be posted. If you aren't sure, ask).

PPE : Were you scum ? if not, that wasn't a correct lynch.

I probably would have shot Gkrieg last night were I actually a Vig.  I may have settled on RR, but a lot of the time I tend to go back to my first instinct.

[Roadrunner7671]

WW thinks he will lynch me this game?
PPE

[EFHW]

Notice RR again is following Awaclus's lead.

This was my idea of proposing the massclaim.  Scum would have to claim under the assumption that there is a PR that isn't actually there.  This could get them into problems with fake claiming.  I would claim after everyone else.  Though, they may have just ended up all claiming VT anyway.

Thinking there was a PR that wasn't there shouldn't have tripped them up.  They would have made sure not to create too many PR's just in case you were lying.

Why would they think I was lying?

Also, what were you thinking when you were talking of asking a question?

They would think you might be lying because your claiming so early was never satisfactorily explained.  I know I have been skeptical throughout for that reason.

If you had been telling the truth, then presumably you had tried to shoot and failed.  So you could have said "did anyone take an action that could have interfered with my shooting X", and that way you could limit how extensive a claim would be needed.  Scum could try to make something up, but that would be super risky.

PPE: 11

[Awaclus]

Awaclus's WW vote without explanation is also scummy, because this really seems like a town maneuver.

Are you kidding me? No way this seems like a town maneuver. This is orders of magnitude more ridiculous than me changing my claim in Buffy/Angel and I got lynched over that twice in that game (correctly so).

.. You were scum, and your claim was awful and continuously made up on the spot.

I was scum, but my claim had tons of evidence for it and it was almost true. Here, you're scum too, and all the evidence is against your claim, not for it.

[Awaclus]

Notice RR again is following Awaclus's lead.

The only noteworthy thing about this is that nobody else is voting for the confirmed scum.

[Witherweaver]

This is really bad from you if you're town.

[Witherweaver]

Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.

[Teproc]

Speaking of putting blinders on... that QT tells me two things :

a) you're probably town
b) you didn't think this through. THe only way this is pro-town is if you die. The fact that you're alive and it has come to this is a failure. Just wanted to point that out for future reference.

Regarding a, we have to look at what the scum narrative is here, and it's pretty clear to me that it's :
- WW claims early because early claims get a bunch of towncred, figures he can bank on Roleblocker (which he knows exist) to explain why he never gets a kill through.
- Roleblocker dies, crap, what do I do ? What if there are no protective PRs ? Ok, I can do this crazy thing and claim VT.

This timing is important because in order for WW to be scum, he also has to have a QT he's updating as his town!self throughout the game. So I would expect him to write it as an actual vig, because that's what he claimed, and I don't think scum!WW planned this "I'm a VT fakeclaiming Vig" from day 1. So of course he'd have updated it and changed a few things to make it look as if he was fakeclaiming from the start, but it just doesn't read like that to me.

So WW is bad town. I mean I'm bad town to for getting it wrong on day 2 but still, this is worse, so thanks for that.

Now... Awaclus now has his excuse to do nothing as long as WW's alive, so we could lynch him because he's never going to be doing anything in this game ever again, and he's about 50/50 to flip scum (well, not 50/50 but you know what I mean).

Really though, the PoE is pretty good now : EFHW and WW are town, RR and EgorK probably too, that leaves us with
- Awaclus
- silverspawn

That's it ?

Ok, probably wrong about one of these town reads then.

[Teproc]

The blinders reference is that you were way too confident in your gkrieg read. Your goal is to get killed, and putting that read out there only works if gkrieg is scum, but is disastrous otherwise because now scum actively wants you alive. ANd I repeat : the only way this fakeclaiming nonsense is worth it is if you get NKed.

[Teproc]

I'll actually

vote: silverspawn

I just don't like lynching Awaclus. I'd ask WW to vig him, but you know.

[Awaclus]

Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.

It's not an act. It's genuinely way beyond my ability to comprehend why you would do this as town and the fact that other people have done other stuff in the past that was also utterly ridiculous and then turned out to be actually town in those games doesn't change that. There's no way you would do this as town, it's very difficult to imagine scum not killing a claimed town PR for 4 days, and the fact that you're aware of how I react when players are obviously scum is even further proof that there's no way you would do this as town.

[Witherweaver]

The blinders reference is that you were way too confident in your gkrieg read. Your goal is to get killed, and putting that read out there only works if gkrieg is scum, but is disastrous otherwise because now scum actively wants you alive. ANd I repeat : the only way this fakeclaiming nonsense is worth it is if you get NKed.

Well, yes, but that didn't happen.  And it seemed pretty unlikely.  The longer I'm alive without shooting, the more scum can push an argument to lynch me.  I was hoping that my reads could mix things up some.  However, this game progressed a little oddly.  Day 1 lynch kind of snowballed to a quick day, then Ash v XP happened.  So we're on Day 4 with about a days worth of content.  I couldn't have predicted the game state would end up like this back at the beginning.   

[Teproc]

Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.

It's not an act. It's genuinely way beyond my ability to comprehend why you would do this as town and the fact that other people have done other stuff in the past that was also utterly ridiculous and then turned out to be actually town in those games doesn't change that. There's no way you would do this as town, it's very difficult to imagine scum not killing a claimed town PR for 4 days, and the fact that you're aware of how I react when players are obviously scum is even further proof that there's no way you would do this as town.

The fact that he know you'll tunnel him makes this appealing to him as scum how ?

[Witherweaver]

Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.

It's not an act. It's genuinely way beyond my ability to comprehend why you would do this as town and the fact that other people have done other stuff in the past that was also utterly ridiculous and then turned out to be actually town in those games doesn't change that. There's no way you would do this as town, it's very difficult to imagine scum not killing a claimed town PR for 4 days, and the fact that you're aware of how I react when players are obviously scum is even further proof that there's no way you would do this as town.

Again you keep using BS words like "proof" and "fact" and "obviously".  You can't possibly expect us to take you seriously when you do that.