Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tables]

The real question is... who WAS Hitler, anyway?

Congratulations to Tables, gkrieg, Archetype and whoever the remaining fascist is.

It's a sad game for me where I tried to convince everyone that Tables was fascist and as a result was considered fascist myself.

Yeah, parts of this game sorta just fell into my hands. I'm not entirely sure how it happened.

[Kirian]

As pointed out by Tables, the endgame is a foregone conclusion.  With two liberals killed, the fascists can openly declare themselves and collude to get Hitler elected Chancellor.  The fascists win.

gkrieg13 was Hitler.

Tables, Archetype, and Hydrad were the vanilla fascists.

And now I'm going to stop with the red, as the game is over.

The one thing that stuck out for me here was this quote:

Summarizing my reads
Regular fascist: Archetype > Tables >> faust > EgorK >> ADK > Grujah > Hydrad > gkrieg
Hitler: Hydrad > gkrieg >> Grujah > faust > ADK >> Archetype >> Tables > EgorK

Other than reading Hydrad as Hitler, this was basically spot-on.  But Tables getting you all to think ghost was fascist meant this comment went almost entirely unregarded, when it might otherwise have saved the liberals the game.

I do think the deck is stacked against the liberals on average, just by the basics of the game, but especially with an odd number of players--with an even number of players, the fascists can never get an outright majority, though with a 50/50 split they can vote everything down and hope for good luck from the deck.  In addition, having Hitler -> Fascist -> Fascist as the first three seats allowed them to spread a ton of early FUD.  Well, maybe not gkrieg, who played thoroughly liberal to the end.

GG all.

[gkrieg13]

gg all.

I honestly thought EgorK was fascist, and thought Hydrad was liberal.

[Tables]

I do want to ask Gkrieg, how did you react to my post where I claimed false info about what you passed me? This one here:

Got passed FF. Not sure what that means. Maybe Gkrieg is fascist and will just shoot a liberal, maybe he's a liberal and got a bad draw, heck maybe he thinks he knows who Hitler is and wants to gun for him.

Most likely it's the first, but we'll see what Gkrieg has to say I guess.

I have to admit I was tempted to just outright claim, hey Gkrieg, shoot Faust, at this point, and then voting everything down, but I ran the numbers and our odds of winning by doing that were only about 83% or so (although higher if Hydrad got himself elected). And well I knew that the worst case scenario was everyone realised my later post suggesting who to shoot was uh me actually telling Gkrieg what to so (since he still knew basically nothing for certain); if this happened we could just revert to the above strategy anyway.

[gkrieg13]

I do want to ask Gkrieg, how did you react to my post where I claimed false info about what you passed me? This one here:

Got passed FF. Not sure what that means. Maybe Gkrieg is fascist and will just shoot a liberal, maybe he's a liberal and got a bad draw, heck maybe he thinks he knows who Hitler is and wants to gun for him.

Most likely it's the first, but we'll see what Gkrieg has to say I guess.

I have to admit I was tempted to just outright claim, hey Gkrieg, shoot Faust, at this point, and then voting everything down, but I ran the numbers and our odds of winning by doing that were only about 83% or so (although higher if Hydrad got himself elected). And well I knew that the worst case scenario was everyone realised my later post suggesting who to shoot was uh me actually telling Gkrieg what to so (since he still knew basically nothing for certain); if this happened we could just revert to the above strategy anyway.

I actually thought about this for a long time.  I had two choices, out you as fascist, which would clear Egor, but maybe make it likely I could get elected as chancellor, or go along with it.  I think going along with it was the correct choice, because it caused people to not overthink the next couple of decisions, which won us the game.

It still caught me totally off-guard because I was sure you were the liberal one in you/EgorK

[Hydrad]

Gkrieg. Just wondering. From your eyes who was the fascist team?

[ghostofmars]

Summarizing my reads
Regular fascist: Archetype > Tables >> faust > EgorK >> ADK > Grujah > Hydrad > gkrieg
Hitler: Hydrad > gkrieg >> Grujah > faust > ADK >> Archetype >> Tables > EgorK

Other than reading Hydrad as Hitler, this was basically spot-on.  But Tables getting you all to think ghost was fascist meant this comment went almost entirely unregarded, when it might otherwise have saved the liberals the game.

It's a bit of an overstatement that I was "spot-on". I would still have elected Hydrad as president, who could have enacted the fourth fascist law and executed a liberal. I made two significant mistakes (other that I somehow made everyone convinced I'm fascist): i) I was to set on one of ADK/faust being fascist; ii) I missed the opportunity that both Hydrad and gkrieg are fascist. Somehow I thought a fascist would have enacted a fascist law.
And btw, Tables at least pretended to consider me as liberal. The fascist!ghost trend came from faust, ADK, and gkrieg.

I do think the deck is stacked against the liberals on average, just by the basics of the game, but especially with an odd number of players--with an even number of players, the fascists can never get an outright majority, though with a 50/50 split they can vote everything down and hope for good luck from the deck.  In addition, having Hitler -> Fascist -> Fascist as the first three seats allowed them to spread a ton of early FUD.  Well, maybe not gkrieg, who played thoroughly liberal to the end.

We had really bad luck to draw LLL and FFF for our only all liberal government.

[gkrieg13]

I would say the fascist team was Archetype, EgorK, and ghostofmars.  Those were my last reads before I knew that Tables was fascist, which dramatically changed my reads.

[Tables]

And btw, Tables at least pretended to consider me as liberal. The fascist!ghost trend came from faust, ADK, and gkrieg.

There was a reasonable portion of the midgame where I wanted to try and make you look as Hitler-ish as possible in the case I was outed (which I considered was very likely). People going back and rereading what I'd said would spot, hey Tables was defending Ghost at a weird point, maybe that means something. Of course things are never really so black and white, and it ended up not being important after all.

I actually thought about this for a long time.  I had two choices, out you as fascist, which would clear Egor, but maybe make it likely I could get elected as chancellor, or go along with it.  I think going along with it was the correct choice, because it caused people to not overthink the next couple of decisions, which won us the game.

It still caught me totally off-guard because I was sure you were the liberal one in you/EgorK

The best deceptions have to fool even your greatest allies. Or something like that. But yeah I agree that of the two choices you had you probably made the right one. With what I'd claimed, you contradicting me I feel would have seemed very fishy and forced you to execute me pretty much, and that would be no good for us.

[gkrieg13]

And btw, Tables at least pretended to consider me as liberal. The fascist!ghost trend came from faust, ADK, and gkrieg.

There was a reasonable portion of the midgame where I wanted to try and make you look as Hitler-ish as possible in the case I was outed (which I considered was very likely). People going back and rereading what I'd said would spot, hey Tables was defending Ghost at a weird point, maybe that means something. Of course things are never really so black and white, and it ended up not being important after all.

I actually thought about this for a long time.  I had two choices, out you as fascist, which would clear Egor, but maybe make it likely I could get elected as chancellor, or go along with it.  I think going along with it was the correct choice, because it caused people to not overthink the next couple of decisions, which won us the game.

It still caught me totally off-guard because I was sure you were the liberal one in you/EgorK

The best deceptions have to fool even your greatest allies. Or something like that. But yeah I agree that of the two choices you had you probably made the right one. With what I'd claimed, you contradicting me I feel would have seemed very fishy and forced you to execute me pretty much, and that would be no good for us.

Ya.  There were a few obvious liberals to me.  Faust was obviously liberal because of the way he attacked me at the beginning.  I can't think of the others right now.

[gkrieg13]

I will say I was surprised when so many people shot down my first government.

[Tables]

I will say I was surprised when so many people shot down my first government.

With no information to go on, and 1/3rd of people being fascists, voting down is better than voting up in general. It gets a little more information onto the board, even if that information is just who proposes what missions.

[Tables]

So hey I do have one more question (probably easiest answered by Kirian): What did everyone draw each round from the laws deck?

[chairs]

WTB Secret Hitler II, now with 100% more Chairs.

[ghostofmars]

I would play again.

[Archetype]

So hey I do have one more question (probably easiest answered by Kirian): What did everyone draw each round from the laws deck?

I legit drew FFF that first round.

[Kirian]

So hey I do have one more question (probably easiest answered by Kirian): What did everyone draw each round from the laws deck?

I'll try to post it sometime later tonight.

[Kirian]

OK, obviously later tonight didn't happen; we had company in from out of town.  So, here's the spreadsheet I used:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zxAM1O8dfk2zxRdD757HTWs9_N-Y2UgiVgj5GaZUxyw/edit?usp=sharing

The numbers you see are int(1000*rand()), used for shuffling everything.  Note that the Hitleriness coefficient is in millihitlers.

Some interesting thoughts/observations:

Only Tables ever discarded liberal cards when a choice was available--twice as President, once as Chancellor.

There were only two completely fascist governments, both of which had Hitler--and only one enacted a fascist law.

That first shuffle was really bad for the liberals, in particular drawing LLL.

[faust]

I would play again.

[gkrieg13]

I would play again.

[Hydrad]

I would play again.

[faust]

So, lots of people willing to play anyone want to mod? I would but I have a mafia game starting out and I think modding two games at once would be too much.

[Tables]

I don't especially want to play again, so I would be happy to mod the second game.

[ghostofmars]

So will there be a second game? I think with the players that expressed interest here and those in the original sign up thread, we would have enough to do a game.

[chairs]

As soon as Tables puts up the signup sheet.