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[faust]

PS, even though I'm probably not considered by Faust

Chancellor: EgorK
Shoot: Archetype

I try to keep an open mind. Definitely will reread the whole thread before making a final decision.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Oh wait, we win if we shoot Hitler. Maybe I'd shoot egor then.

Why do you think he is more likely to be hitler than ghost?

If egor is fascist and arch is his partner, then the first investigation could have been a way to signal to Hitler who his partners were.

[Kirian]

Does the special election count as one of our three to form a government?

Yes, it does.

[EgorK]

Nominating Tables as Chancellor has interesting consequences. If he would have choice, would he rather out himself as fascist or get strong town read but pass liberal law. Likely former. Unless he is actually hitler who decided to mix it up and get this "can be fascist, but unlikely hitler" read

[Hydrad]

yes the games moving again!

hmm If i was elected I'd probably go gkreig again. But as for who to shoot I'd probably shoot arch/tables/egork. one of those 3 as I still don't trust them. but I feel like they probably aren't hitler. So I guess the question is do we try to find hitler or try our best to hit a facist.

[Axxle]

This game needs some deadlines.

Yeah, but it's effectively impossible to assign a "default" vote to someone.  If anyone has suggestions for making a deadline work in a future game, feel free to discuss.

Missing votes from Arch, ADK, and Egor.

People who miss multiple deadline get killed.

/in to replace?

[ghostofmars]

yes the games moving again!

hmm If i was elected I'd probably go gkreig again. But as for who to shoot I'd probably shoot arch/tables/egork. one of those 3 as I still don't trust them. but I feel like they probably aren't hitler. So I guess the question is do we try to find hitler or try our best to hit a facist.

I think aiming for fascist is better. Keep in mind that it is very likely that if a fascist law is enacted the president is fascist too. While we have some relative good idea who are fascist players, Hitler and liberal look alike. Hence a fascist president can easily hide a liberal kill by 'I just wanted to kill Hitler.'

Can I also ask you to reconsider appointing gkrieg should you be elected? It is possible that he is Hitler and our No1 priority is not to elect Hitler chancellor. I agree with your assessment that Archetype/EgorK/Tables are unlikely to be Hitler so I'd appoint your best liberal read from these three.

Rule question: Could Faust appoint ADK by special election?

[Hydrad]

yes the games moving again!

hmm If i was elected I'd probably go gkreig again. But as for who to shoot I'd probably shoot arch/tables/egork. one of those 3 as I still don't trust them. but I feel like they probably aren't hitler. So I guess the question is do we try to find hitler or try our best to hit a facist.

I think aiming for fascist is better. Keep in mind that it is very likely that if a fascist law is enacted the president is fascist too. While we have some relative good idea who are fascist players, Hitler and liberal look alike. Hence a fascist president can easily hide a liberal kill by 'I just wanted to kill Hitler.'

Can I also ask you to reconsider appointing gkrieg should you be elected? It is possible that he is Hitler and our No1 priority is not to elect Hitler chancellor. I agree with your assessment that Archetype/EgorK/Tables are unlikely to be Hitler so I'd appoint your best liberal read from these three.

Rule question: Could Faust appoint ADK by special election?

but then I feel like I have a high chance of appointing a facist I feel like if I pick from them. And then while I won't be hitting hitler there will be a higher chance for more facist policies also. That just sounds like we start losing the long game. Maybe I'm just thinking about this the wrong way though. and I guess I would be the leader so I could just shoot them if they did a facist policy...

hmmm interesting.

[Kirian]

Rule question: Could Faust appoint ADK by special election?

Yes, assuming you mean make him Presidential candidate.

[Grujah]

@ADK IIRC, I voted no the first time around as I didn't consider faust clear just because Tables cleared him, as I though Tables was more likely to be F than Arch/Egor at the time. Second time I voted yes as you already enacted a L policy in the meantime.

@faust.

Nominate: I would nominate Tables. I find him less likely to be F than Arch/Egor, and less likely to be H than buys on train.
Kill: If I draw FFF, Arch or Egor, I don't care. I think it is better to kill a very likely F than to try to shoot a H and get a Liberal, as fascist have a majority in that case.

If I send FL to Tables and he choses F, of course, that changes a lot. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

@ADK IIRC, I voted no the first time around as I didn't consider faust clear just because Tables cleared him, as I though Tables was more likely to be F than Arch/Egor at the time. Second time I voted yes as you already enacted a L policy in the meantime.

@faust.

Nominate: I would nominate Tables. I find him less likely to be F than Arch/Egor, and less likely to be H than buys on train.
Kill: If I draw FFF, Arch or Egor, I don't care. I think it is better to kill a very likely F than to try to shoot a H and get a Liberal, as fascist have a majority in that case.

If I send FL to Tables and he choses F, of course, that changes a lot.

And how does the fact that I drew LLL factor into that?

[Grujah]

Ugh, I actually didn't factor that, damn.

Good point, doesn't say much about faust. He could have been forced to play an L and could have been forced to pass FF (or he could have chosen so), certanly none of those action were actually liberal.

Same goes for you, I guess... if you drew LLL and got passed FF, you didn't have much choice.

[Tables]

For what it's worth I believe ADK's claims. Mainly of course because I know faust is telling the truth, so I know at least that FFF was drawn, and well the number of L's more or less add up.

If I send FL to Tables and he choses F, of course, that changes a lot.

Thanks for the subtle coaching, boss! /s

Yeah regardless of who is chosen as president in this election, if they send FL and their chancellor plays F, I think it's pretty likely who the president will shoot (unless they have reasonable grounds to gun for Hitler at least). So actually, picking someone who is likely a fascist as Chancellor in this round is probably not really that bad, they can't play an F unless they're happy to put their head straight onto the chopping block.

[faust]

So actually, picking someone who is likely a fascist as Chancellor in this round is probably not really that bad.

I disagree. If we get to 4 enacted fascist policies with only 2 liberals, we are quite likely to draw one more FFF before the game ends, and then the fascists only need one more failed government to win.

[Tables]

So actually, picking someone who is likely a fascist as Chancellor in this round is probably not really that bad.

I disagree. If we get to 4 enacted fascist policies with only 2 liberals, we are quite likely to draw one more FFF before the game ends, and then the fascists only need one more failed government to win.

That's true... I was mostly thinking in terms of, we make a fascist die in this case, but yes it does put us in a precarious position in general.

[ghostofmars]

Our priorities have to be
1) Do not elect Hitler as chancellor (obviously).
2) Do not elect a fascist president, because he will likely enact a fascist law and kill a liberal.
3) Do not elect a fascist chancellor, because he may sacrifice himself to get the fourth fascist law.

Because of the way the game works 1 > 2 >> 3. So you should strongly prioritize choosing a non-Hitler chancellor that might be fascist over a liberal chancellor that might be Hitler. My estimate for our chances to win the game in the three different scenarios are 0%, 10%, and 40% for scenario 1, 2, and 3, respectively.

So for this reason I will not approve any government where neither Tables nor EgorK are chancellor. I might make an exception for Archetype (as chancellor), but I don't understand why anyone would appoint Archetype over EgorK.

My preferred governments would be gkrieg/Hydrad as president with Tables/EgorK as chancellor. I would also approve ADK or Grujah as president, as long as they pick one of Tables/EgorK.

[EgorK]

yes the games moving again!

hmm If i was elected I'd probably go gkreig again. But as for who to shoot I'd probably shoot arch/tables/egork. one of those 3 as I still don't trust them. but I feel like they probably aren't hitler. So I guess the question is do we try to find hitler or try our best to hit a facist.

I think aiming for fascist is better. Keep in mind that it is very likely that if a fascist law is enacted the president is fascist too. While we have some relative good idea who are fascist players, Hitler and liberal look alike. Hence a fascist president can easily hide a liberal kill by 'I just wanted to kill Hitler.'

Can I also ask you to reconsider appointing gkrieg should you be elected? It is possible that he is Hitler and our No1 priority is not to elect Hitler chancellor. I agree with your assessment that Archetype/EgorK/Tables are unlikely to be Hitler so I'd appoint your best liberal read from these three.

Rule question: Could Faust appoint ADK by special election?

but then I feel like I have a high chance of appointing a facist I feel like if I pick from them. And then while I won't be hitting hitler there will be a higher chance for more facist policies also. That just sounds like we start losing the long game. Maybe I'm just thinking about this the wrong way though. and I guess I would be the leader so I could just shoot them if they did a facist policy...

hmmm interesting.

If you are liberal yourself between others you get 50% chance to select fascist (with 12.5% chance to select Hitler) and 50% chance to select liberal. So barring strong reads among others chance is about the same, and we can resolve position here (well, between me and Tables, Arch can still be fascist, however unlikely it is)

[faust]

Well.

I don't like the Chancellor/kill choices of any of my preferred candidates (i.e. Hydrad/ADK/gkrieg). So I will consider handing the presidency to ghost or Grujah. But let me reread.

[faust]

So reread.

Round 1:

Well not much. Notably, gkrieg considers {Archetype, Tables, ADK} for nomination. We know that there is at least one fascist in this group, and gkrieg did not pick them. Fascists are actually more likely to nominate liberals I think. Minor scum points.

Nomination: gkrieg, ADK
Ja: gkrieg, ADK, Hydrad, Grujah
Nein: faust, ghost, Tables, Archetype, Egor

So if gkrieg is fascist, very likely other fascists supported him. That puts fascists in Hydrad/Grujah (ADK is not likely a partner as already stated). The fascists among {Tables, Archetype, Egor} vote against. Makes gkrieg seem liberal.

Round 2:

Archetype wants to nominate ghost, and notably ghost claims that a fascist president wants to nominate a liberal chancellor. WIFOM ensues.

Nomination: Archetype, ghost
Ja: Archetype, gkrieg, ADK, ghost, Hydrad, faust, Egor
Nein: Tables, Grujah

Massive amount of support seems to imply a fascist on board. Which is more likely Arch, because fascist president is much better than fascist chancellor. Fascist!Arch seems to imply liberal!ghost... but WIFOM. I think it rather unlikely that ghost is Hitler though.

Now discussion about who to investigate. ghost proposes ADK. Tables and gkrieg want me investigated.  Arch states he would be fine investigating ADK. ghost changes to wanting to investigate Egor. Then Arch chooses to investigate Egor. Well I don't know. In the Arch/Egor scumteam theory, it would be very ballsy for fascist!ghost to play this way. I don't really see it.

Round 3:

So general consensus seems to be that Egor should be in the next government. Notably, ADK does not want to nominate Egor. That seems somewhat towny.

Nomination: Tables, Egor
Ja: faust, Tables, Egor, Grujah, gkrieg, Hydrad, Archetype
Nein: ghost, ADK

Notably the first government here succeeds. I mean from a fascist perspective you wouldn't want to get yourself into a situation where the next president is certainly liberal. Which makes it seem as though there is a fascist among ADK/ghost/Hydrad so that there can still be a fascist president after Tables' government.

ADK has a theory that Egor is Hitler. ghost proposes to investigate him or ADK. Tables wants to investigate me, ghost argues against it.

Round 4:

ghost posts reads. Reads Grujah/ADK/gkrieg as liberal and me/Hydrad as fascist. Okay, now comes some outguessing the mod: Kirian comments that people may be confused about how many fascists there are. Which only makes sense if liberals posted that, because for sure fascists know how many partners they have. ADK did it last before the post. Makes me think that ADK is liberal.

Nomination: ADK, faust
Ja: ADK, faust, gkrieg, Hydrad, Tables
Nein: Egor, ghost, Archetype, Grujah

The pattern continues that Egor and Archetype vote the same way. Out of the Ja votes, Hydrad and gkrieg are notable. One of them might be fascist if ADK is. If ADK is liberal (which I think), then Arch and Egor both voting Nein is very suspicious.

Round 5:

Well well. Some probability talk and the ghost nominates Grujah.

Nomination: ghost, Grujah
Ja: ghost
Nein: everyone else

So interesting. First, fascist!ghost would probably nominate a liberal right? Would be dangerous for fascists then to vote this down since the only other option of getting a fascist-controlled government is Hydrad, who might not be fascist. In case of liberal!ghost, it's a very convenient way for the fascists to have that one fail since everyone and their moms thought ghost was fascist.

Round 6:

Hydrad quickly nominates. Well.

Nomination: Hydrad, gkrieg
Ja: Hydrad, gkrieg, faust, Archetype, Grujah, Tables, ADK
Nein: ghost, Egor

And we get a liberal card. Well that looks good. And bad for ghost to vote it down. Hydrad could have drawn FLL if Arch told the truth early on, so this is mainly looking good for gkrieg. Grujah votes for this over his own government, strange.

Round 7:

The rotation plan forms, Grujah still tries some nomination, it doesn't work.

Nomiation: Grujah, ADK
Ja: ghost, Grujah
Nein: ADK, faust, Egor, Archetype, Tables, gkrieg, Hydrad

So definitely fascist opposition. Which could simply be going with the flow. But if the fascists are going with rotation plan, they will know that it has to fail at some point. So there is a fascist, maybe Hitler, among this group.

Round 8:

Not a lot happening.

Nomination: faust, ADK
Ja: faust, Tables, gkrieg, Grujah, ADK, Hydrad
Nein: ghost, Egor, Archetype

So Egor and Arch trying to get Egor to be president? Probably. Also Arch has not posted anything since Round 4 or so. I think he may simply be resigned.
Ja:

[faust]

So gkrieg is my top liberal read still. ADK is a close second. I'm not hot about picking gkrieg since he's a candidate anyway. ADK may be liberal, but I don't exactly trust his judgment. This would bring me to Grujah is the next best option.

[faust]

Yep.

Make Grujah the next presidential candidate.

[Grujah]

Great.

Now, I know I said I'd choose Tables, but I have to consider the option that you are fascist and choose me exactly cuz I said I'd choose Tables. So, give me some times do decide.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Why don't you trust my judgement? I said I'd elect a liberal read of yours and that I'd kill the same person Grujah said he'd kill.

[EgorK]

Great.

Now, I know I said I'd choose Tables, but I have to consider the option that you are fascist and choose me exactly cuz I said I'd choose Tables. So, give me some times do decide.

Out of me, Arch and Tables I like Tables the least. I like myself most (I am liberal) Arch next (if he is liberal, which is likely, it will clear me as well)

[faust]

Why don't you trust my judgement? I said I'd elect a liberal read of yours and that I'd kill the same person Grujah said he'd kill.

You chose Hydrad as Chancellor, who has a decent chance of being Hitler. Also it was not clear to me whether you'd shoot Egor or ghost.