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[Tables]

I haven't seen much objection to it, so am going to investigate Faust soon unless someone strongly objects.

If you are liberal, you should try to catch one of the remaining fascists. So if you want to investigate him, I would like to know what makes you think he is fascist.

The more I think about it, the more I actually realise that you're probably right. The odds are pretty low, however, that I do find a fascist, but throwing an extra counterclaim of X being fascist into the mix would certainly be great for everyone else, and it'd mean I know 3/4 of the fascists. Knowing a definite Liberal is also really good though, so I dunno, it's not the end of the world.

So... yeah, I think you're right. I really want to know faust's loyalty because he's one of the most active players, and that's useful alone, but gunning for the most likely suspect is probably more useful. Sadly right now I don't really have any other top suspects beyond the obvious two, so, I dunno. I'll have to think about it a little more.

[gkrieg13]

I haven't seen much objection to it, so am going to investigate Faust soon unless someone strongly objects.

If you are liberal, you should try to catch one of the remaining fascists. So if you want to investigate him, I would like to know what makes you think he is fascist.

I agree with this sentiment

[gkrieg13]

Rounds, Votes, Policies

Round 1:
Presidential Candidate:  gkrieg13
Chancellor Candidate: A Drowned Kernel
Ja: gkrieg13, A Drowned Kernel, Hydrad, Grujah
Nein: Archetype, Tables, ghostofmars, faust, EgorK
Result:  No government formed

Round 2:
Presidential Candidate:  Archetype
Chancellor Candidate:  ghostofmars
Ja: gkrieg13, Archetype, A Drowned Kernel, ghostofmars, Hydrad, faust, EgorK
Nein: Tables, Grujah
Result:  Fascist policy enacted; Archetype investigated EgorK

Round 3:
Presidential Candidate:  Tables
Chancellor Candidate: EgorK
Ja: gkrieg13, Archetype, Hydrad, faust, EgorK, Tables, Grujah
Nein: A Drowned Kernel, ghostofmars
Result:  Fascist policy enacted

This looks great by the way!

Looking at this, I was hoping I could figure something out.  Unfortunately, everyone who is under investigation (Tables, EgorK, Arch) all voted against me in the first round and everyone voted ja on the two fascist policies except the next two potential presidential candidates except that ADK voted the 2nd policy through and grujah voted nein.  So if a policy goes through except for the next presidential candidates, does that mean a fascist is on it?  Clearly the 3rd round had a fascist on it, but for the second round, do we think there was a fascist in the government just based off of the voting pattern?  I think this makes my greatest liberal read on ghostofmars, with a pretty liberal read on ADK, because they both were against the mission with a fascist on it.

[Tables]

ADK voting no doesn't necessarily indicate that he's liberal, since he was in line to become president that round anyway. However the yes and no votes to M1 become interesting, I think that does make it more likely that ADK is liberal. Hmm... just based on votes so far I would say:

gkrieg13 - Voting pattern looks ehh, however both fascists I know voted the mission down, so... slightly liberal.

A Drowned Kernel - on ghosts proposal one, which many fascists voted down. Voted down R2.1, but was in line for presidency. Slightly liberal.

ghostofmars - Was picked by a fascist for a mission proposal, which I think makes him unlikely to be a fascist himself. Liberal.

Hydrad - Voted up M1.1, but also voted up both fascist missions. Sightly fascist.

Grujah - Voted down M1.2 and voted up M1.1. Liberal.

faust - Uh, so faust actually voted down M1.1 and then voted up both other missions, which were both fascist. That's... interesting. I know he's given reasons for these votes before, but just based on the votes, fascist.

When I add in reads based on posts and whatnot, faust drops down a fair bit, and that I feel leaves Hydrad as my top scumread? I don't feel like his posts have convinced me of anything yet. Faust could still be scum, mind, so probably one of those two would be my best investigation target.

[faust]

I think it is foolish to ignore who other potential candidates were when evaluating voting patterns. Like, ADK and ghost voted against Tables/Egor, not because they have splendid reads, but because they wanted to be in the government themselves, and if they are fascist, it would have been very suspicious to support a another government over yours.

So Grujah is the only one who should get liberal points based on rounds 2 and 3. Round 1 is a tossup because we don't know alignments. However we have Egor, Arch, Tables as "no", so that's at least one fascist right there. (And at least one non-Hitler fascist, because I don't see Tables as Hitler here).

Eh. The other no vote aside from me is ghost. That makes me suspicious of him. I need to check back on his reasoning. Checking... okay, he wanted to be president earlier I guess. Makes sense, but is also convenient. There's the argument that fascist!Arch would not nominate fascist!ghost, but really, WIFOM. Hydrad seems suspicious although he upvoted the first mission.

So my top candidates are ghost and Hydrad. One of these should be investigated I think.

[faust]

Every single one of ghost's votes was not influenced by reads, but only by what gives him the best shot at being part of the government. That's bad.

[Grujah]

So my top candidates are ghost and Hydrad. One of these should be investigated I think.

I though we are not directing the pick?

[Tables]

Every single one of ghost's votes was not influenced by reads, but only by what gives him the best shot at being part of the government. That's bad.

I dunno about that. Very early in the game about all you know is that you're liberal, so the only thing you can really trust is getting yourself on the mission, with somone you don't feel is overly scummy. It's no more of a fascist play than it is a liberal play. Heck I'd say it's arguably more liberal, since fascists have three/four people they'd be happy with being on the mission, while liberals have one.

Right now I'm leaning slightly more towards faust. I think that Hydrad is a little bit more likely to be a fascist, but knowing faust's loyalty seems far more valuable, and I think the small drop in chance of actually catching a fascist is worth the insurance of a loyal result being still decent.

[faust]

So my top candidates are ghost and Hydrad. One of these should be investigated I think.

I though we are not directing the pick?

Well, that's certainly an interesting thought.

[faust]

Right now I'm leaning slightly more towards faust. I think that Hydrad is a little bit more likely to be a fascist, but knowing faust's loyalty seems far more valuable, and I think the small drop in chance of actually catching a fascist is worth the insurance of a loyal result being still decent.

Look I can understand you wanting to have hard evidence but if you investigate me, that will not help anyone but yourself, because obviously people cannot trust you. It would really be a lot better if you investigated a fascist.

[Tables]

Right now I'm leaning slightly more towards faust. I think that Hydrad is a little bit more likely to be a fascist, but knowing faust's loyalty seems far more valuable, and I think the small drop in chance of actually catching a fascist is worth the insurance of a loyal result being still decent.

Look I can understand you wanting to have hard evidence but if you investigate me, that will not help anyone but yourself, because obviously people cannot trust you. It would really be a lot better if you investigated a fascist.

That's what I'm trying to do. I already mentioned a few posts back that your voting history is actually rather alarming - voting up the two failed missions, and voting down the only currently unknown one. But really, there's a pretty low chance of me actually hitting a fascist right now - there's only 2 left in 6 people, and one of them is likely Hitler. And I disagree that it won't help anyone else. No matter what, it's still a new data point, and if you are a fascist then hey, that's even better.

[Grujah]

Jeez, I made a post last night, looks like it didn't go through.

Look I can understand you wanting to have hard evidence but if you investigate me, that will not help anyone but yourself, because obviously people cannot trust you. It would really be a lot better if you investigated a fascist.

You say things like this and it makes me want him investigate you more.


Also, I am starting to see things in gkrieg's way the more I think about it,  Arch/egor have heavier fascist reads, but Tables makes more sense.


Outlandish theory:
Tables is Hitler, draws FFL, sends FL to Egor. Egor wants to signal Tables, picks F. Tables decides to bus Egor.  Pretty risky however, as we might shot Tables too, so not very likely.

[Grujah]

It is also more dangerous if Tables is Fascist, as he is way more influential than Arch/Egor.

[faust]

Look I can understand you wanting to have hard evidence but if you investigate me, that will not help anyone but yourself, because obviously people cannot trust you. It would really be a lot better if you investigated a fascist.

You say things like this and it makes me want him investigate you more.

Yes? Uh why? Am I not making sense? Do you think I would say that if I was a fascist? Well, maybe I would, but if so, then certainly to appear like a liberal and not to get Tables to not investigate me...

[faust]

Also, I am starting to see things in gkrieg's way the more I think about it,  Arch/egor have heavier fascist reads, but Tables makes more sense.

And could you back this up? It's not much use to throw statements like that around without some reasoning behind them.

[Tables]

I think it's time to take this shot.

Investigate faust

[Kirian]

Tables investigates faust by PM

This ends round 3. A Drowned Kernel is now the Presidential candidate.

[Kirian]

Current Game State

Round 4

Turn Order, current President or candidate in bold, current Chancellor or candidate in italic:

gkrieg13
Archetype
Tables
A Drowned Kernel
ghostofmars
Hydrad
Grujah
faust
EgorK

Liberal Policies enacted: 0
Fascist Policies enacted: 2
Next Executive Power: Special Election
Recent Failed Governments: 0

Deck: 11 cards
Discard: 4 cards

Deck and discard contain (total): 9 Fascist, 6 Liberal

Fate of the World:  Unknown

[faust]

Oh well. I had hoped for more information, but it's not the worst thing ever.

Let's play through the scum!Tables scenario... he wants to investigate a non-fascist because he doesn't want to lie because that would rob him of even more credibility? I suppose that course of action makes sense.

I do wonder, will people trust me in the government if Tables clears me?

[gkrieg13]

Oh well. I had hoped for more information, but it's not the worst thing ever.

Let's play through the scum!Tables scenario... he wants to investigate a non-fascist because he doesn't want to lie because that would rob him of even more credibility? I suppose that course of action makes sense.

I do wonder, will people trust me in the government if Tables clears me?

I guess I would.  I would do it begrudgingly. 

[faust]

Of the possible presidents ADK/ghost/Hydrad, I actually like ADK best now. Which is sort of meh because it postpones me getting a shot at forming a government myself.

[Tables]

Eh. Liberal. Which is fine, I guess, not the result I was hoping for but I knew the odds weren't great.

[Grujah]

I am gone skiing so will have limited access in next 5 days.

[Hydrad]

ok well lets just get a liberal thing finally...

also if hitler is the chancellor and picks the 3rd thing he doesn't win right? the 3rd facist has to already be picked and then hes chancellor?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Right now I'd like to pick Hydrad or Faust. Which of those do people prefer?