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[olegas]

I've done a few searches on the forums already but I haven't seen an answer to this question:

So we were playing a game (it was my second time ever) using the premade set of actions recommended by the instructions which includes Witch and Chapel. I quickly bought a bunch of labs and villages when everyone else was spamming witches, and once I got a few chapels as well I began cycling cards very quickly. Before long, I was down to pretty much just labs, villages, a couple chapels, and a woodcutter. At this point I could just cycle my entire deck infinitely, and I pretty much declared victory. My friends questioned it but couldn't find anything against it in the rules. However, we all agreed that this was way broken; it pretty much only took 10 turns and it could've taken even less time with less witches. Now everyone says they're fed up with the game and want to quit playing. So I'm wondering, is this a fair strategy that experienced players use? Is there some way to counter this, or is it just a flaw in the game? This pretty much ruins the game, it seems.

[LastFootnote]

When you play cards, they don't go directly into your discard pile. They stay "in play" until the end of your turn. So you can only play each Action card once per turn.

Read the rules again with this in mind.

[popsofctown]

Interestingly, I've played a game that lets you shuffle the cards back in right away after you play them, and that game pretty much bans you from ever trashing your cards to keep it from being broken.

But anyway, LastFootnote is correct, you guys misread the rules a little bit.

[2.71828.....]

I suggest doing a trial game online. The rules are implemented correctly there and you will see an example of how cards stay "in play" and are not recycled infinitely through your deck.

Or just go to Adam Horton's twitch or YouTube channel and watch some of his games. He does a great job analyzing games and commenting on strategy throughout.

[liopoil]

That said, Chapel is a very strong card!

[AJD]

When you play cards, they don't go directly into your discard pile. They stay "in play" until the end of your turn. So you can only play each Action card once per turn.

Read the rules again with this in mind.

If this is the correct issue, I'm very impressed, LFN. No way would I have been able to figure out from the description in the OP that that's the mistake they're making.

[eHalcyon]

When you play cards, they don't go directly into your discard pile. They stay "in play" until the end of your turn. So you can only play each Action card once per turn.

Read the rules again with this in mind.

If this is the correct issue, I'm very impressed, LFN. No way would I have been able to figure out from the description in the OP that that's the mistake they're making.

LF's almost certainly correct.  I thought it was pretty obvious from the description, "I could cycle my entire deck infinitely".

[Davio]

Suddenly Woodcutter becomes super overpowered.

All you need is a 4 card deck with Village, Lab, Chapel and Woodcutter and you can empty the supply!
Just play Village - Woodcutter, Lab to draw them, Village - Woodcutter, Lab... etc, infinite $ and infinite Buys!

[jsh357]

When you play cards, they don't go directly into your discard pile. They stay "in play" until the end of your turn. So you can only play each Action card once per turn.

Read the rules again with this in mind.

If this is the correct issue, I'm very impressed, LFN. No way would I have been able to figure out from the description in the OP that that's the mistake they're making.

I see players do this almost every time I play with a group IRL. I get that they do it for convenience's sake, but this exact scenario is why they shouldn't. The problem for me is that they don't stop doing it even after I tell them usually.

[GendoIkari]

Interestingly, I've played a game that lets you shuffle the cards back in right away after you play them, and that game pretty much bans you from ever trashing your cards to keep it from being broken.

But anyway, LastFootnote is correct, you guys misread the rules a little bit.

You can go infinite in Ascension, by using a one-shot that lets you take another turn. The trash auto cycles back in when the "kingdom" empties, so that card comes back, and you can buy it again and use it again, forever.

[SCSN]

Seeing how even very experienced players often struggle with engine-building, I can't help but be impressed by these novices already crafting the ultimate one: the perpetuum mobile.

[theblankman]

Suddenly Woodcutter becomes super overpowered.

All you need is a 4 card deck with Village, Lab, Chapel and Woodcutter and you can empty the supply!
Just play Village - Woodcutter, Lab to draw them, Village - Woodcutter, Lab... etc, infinite $ and infinite Buys!

Or a two card deck with Markets.  One card if the order of events allows it to redraw itself.

[eHalcyon]

Suddenly Woodcutter becomes super overpowered.

All you need is a 4 card deck with Village, Lab, Chapel and Woodcutter and you can empty the supply!
Just play Village - Woodcutter, Lab to draw them, Village - Woodcutter, Lab... etc, infinite $ and infinite Buys!

Or a two card deck with Markets.  One card if the order of events allows it to redraw itself.

You can't get to that state in the base game though.  No way to get rid of Chapel.

[Awaclus]

Suddenly Woodcutter becomes super overpowered.

All you need is a 4 card deck with Village, Lab, Chapel and Woodcutter and you can empty the supply!
Just play Village - Woodcutter, Lab to draw them, Village - Woodcutter, Lab... etc, infinite $ and infinite Buys!

Or a two card deck with Markets.  One card if the order of events allows it to redraw itself.

You can't get to that state in the base game though.  No way to get rid of Chapel.

Well, a 3-card deck with Chapel and two Markets does the same thing.

[GendoIkari]

Suddenly Woodcutter becomes super overpowered.

All you need is a 4 card deck with Village, Lab, Chapel and Woodcutter and you can empty the supply!
Just play Village - Woodcutter, Lab to draw them, Village - Woodcutter, Lab... etc, infinite $ and infinite Buys!

Or a two card deck with Markets.  One card if the order of events allows it to redraw itself.

You can't get to that state in the base game though.  No way to get rid of Chapel.

Man, stupid Chapel being stuck in your deck. Someone should make a card that can both get rid of your junk AND trash itself on play. That would totally be the bomb.

[Beyond Awesome]

Also, OP, you only need to buy one Chapel, and it should be one of the cards you buy on of your first two opening buys.

[Ampharos]

Also, OP, you only need to buy one Chapel, and it should be one of the cards you buy on of your first two opening buys.

In a two player game, sure only 1.  But in large MP games (just played a 6 torturer game last night), you might actually want a second.  Depends on how much junk is coming your way.

[Mic Qsenoch]

Also, OP, you only need to buy one Chapel, and it should be one of the cards you buy on of your first two opening buys.

In a two player game, sure only 1.  But in large MP games (just played a 6 torturer game last night), you might actually want a second.  Depends on how much junk is coming your way.

I think in such cases what you really need is a second game of Dominion. Or a razor blade.

[shark_bait]

Also, OP, you only need to buy one Chapel, and it should be one of the cards you buy on of your first two opening buys.

If I know that my Chapel has missed the reshuffle (playing it on T5), I will sometimes buy a 2nd Chapel on Turn 4 to hopefully not fall behind on trashing. 

[olegas]

Thanks a lot for all of the replies guys! So yeah, the first poster was right, we were putting cards into the discard pile immediately after they were played as if we were playing MTG. I think the problem was that, instead of reading the rules, we all learned them from one friend who hadn't read them very closely herself. So it was hard to figure out what we were doing wrong. Anyway, I'm glad we can keep playing this game after all

[Kirian]

Thanks a lot for all of the replies guys! So yeah, the first poster was right, we were putting cards into the discard pile immediately after they were played as if we were playing MTG. I think the problem was that, instead of reading the rules, we all learned them from one friend who hadn't read them very closely herself. So it was hard to figure out what we were doing wrong. Anyway, I'm glad we can keep playing this game after all

Hooray!

[Witherweaver]

Does this help?

[Asper]

Suddenly Woodcutter becomes super overpowered.

All you need is a 4 card deck with Village, Lab, Chapel and Woodcutter and you can empty the supply!
Just play Village - Woodcutter, Lab to draw them, Village - Woodcutter, Lab... etc, infinite $ and infinite Buys!

Or a two card deck with Markets.  One card if the order of events allows it to redraw itself.

You can't get to that state in the base game though.  No way to get rid of Chapel.

Man, stupid Chapel being stuck in your deck. Someone should make a card that can both get rid of your junk AND trash itself on play. That would totally be the bomb Raze.

Fixed that for you.

[Ampharos]

Also, OP, you only need to buy one Chapel, and it should be one of the cards you buy on of your first two opening buys.

In a two player game, sure only 1.  But in large MP games (just played a 6 torturer game last night), you might actually want a second.  Depends on how much junk is coming your way.

I think in such cases what you really need is a second game of Dominion. Or a razor blade.

Did I mention there were also Cutpurses?  If not for Guide and Library being present, not sure anything could ever have gotten done.   

Extended family was all home and wanted to play together... thought about splitting it up into two but thought "how bad could this be?"  That was a mistake.  75 minutes later...

[Awaclus]

Extended family was all home and wanted to play together... thought about splitting it up into two but thought "how bad could this be?"  That was a mistake.  75 minutes later...

A suggestion: the next time you have a lot of people that want to play together, consider playing a game that actually requires a lot of people because you don't get to play those too often and they are pretty much guaranteed to work with a lot of people.