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[gkrieg13]

ss you are demanding things of me that you aren't willing to do yourself.  You haven't told me why you think I'm scummy.

Your vote was 4th on my wagon.  Right in the middle.  That is exactly when scum likes to jump on wagons.  Your reasoning:

meh

vote: gkrieg

makes sense

so... PPS never actually said that his new role doesn't have a posting restriction. He just said that he misunderstood it.

But I'm fine with not lynching him. gkrieg is still good, I found his reaction to pressure, well, scummy for not being towny, basically. I often do get town vibes from people if they are under pressure.

vote: gkrieg

You are saying that I am scummy for not being towny. 

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

This catches me as scummy.  This is not the way town defends themselves. 


This is his reaction to me voting him:

silverspawn - His defense of faust's and others' votes on him was scummy.

vote: silverspawn

'scummy' is not good enough. How was it scummy?

The reason for my response of being scummy is not good enough is because he is asking me to give a reason, when his reason for voting me is that I'm scummy for not being towny.

"scummy isn't good enough"

policy vote: gkrieg for being blatantly stubborn and refusing to explain his vote

well, except I'm already voting for you for being scummy... now you're both!

Now he throws a policy vote on for doing exactly what he did before.

ss still seems the scummiest on my wagon both for position and for reasoning.

Man, you don't even seem to believe this yourself.

Here he is trying to invalidate my read on him again. 


PPE: 12

[2.71828.....]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

I know. It is so hard to read people as scum because you know they are town...since they aren't your partners

[iguanaiguana]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

The point is, there will be much scummier people on your wagon no matter who you vote for. If gkrieg flips town, do you really think that we would be lynching you over Silver, PPS, myself and Faust?

[silverspawn]

@gkrieg: there is a big difference between 'refusing to explain a vote' and 'not explaining a vote'. Plenty of votes are unexplained. No-one ever asked me to explain my vote on you (although I did it anyway...) so saying that I refused to do it is insane.

Everything else you say is based on this misassumption.

[Roadrunner7671]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

I know. It is so hard to read people as scum because you know they are town...since they aren't your partners

You still think I'm scum?

[silverspawn]

Specifically, saying that I am 'not willing to do' this is a blatant lie

[Roadrunner7671]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

The point is, there will be much scummier people on your wagon no matter who you vote for. If gkrieg flips town, do you really think that we would be lynching you over Silver, PPS, myself and Faust?

Oh yeah, you guys would flippin' murder SS 10 seconds into day two.

Vote: SS
PPE

[gkrieg13]

@gkrieg: there is a big difference between 'refusing to explain a vote' and 'not explaining a vote'. Plenty of votes are unexplained. No-one ever asked me to explain my vote on you (although I did it anyway...) so saying that I refused to do it is insane.

Everything else you say is based on this misassumption.

How is everything else in that post based on that misassumption.  You trying to invalidate my reads saying that I don't believe them is scummy and not related at all to you not explaining a vote. 

[faust]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

If you refuse to vote, I will push you're lynch even if you were confirmed town because we can't allow someone playing such a horribly anti-town game to survive until he might lose us the game.

Sorry.

You're not sorry.

Yes, I'm sorry I wrote "you're" when I should have written "your".

[silverspawn]

Alright, defense.

The reason everyone is voting form, as far as I can tell, is the fact that I demanded an explanation from the people who voted for me initially.

This should by all logic be a town tell or at worst null, but since it is apparently not, let me explain why.

As you may or may not know, I have joined every non-blitz non-bastard mafia game since my first, and I like to expand my playstyle & try things.

Requesting more thorough reasoning from others is one of the best things you can do as town, and it's like I said inspired by faust (whom I've called the best player in the past and I have taken inspiration from before, in games where I was town).

I did have the time to think about reactions when I made the post, and thought that someone might or might not call it a scum tell before. Obviously, I didn't predict this kind of reaction. But I would absolutely not do this as scum. In my first scum game, I felt pressured with one vote, WW I think called me out on it, and since then I've always ignored pressure on my entirely as scum, which has been working out pretty good. I dare anyone to find a single instance where I overreact to pressure as scum.

Granted, my last scum game is a pretty long time ago. I really want to draw town recently, and I always do, and it's great. You may also have noticed that I put a lot of effort into my games recently, which {censored because two games are ongoing although I'm dead in them}

Most importantly though, all of this 'case' is just something that I could do as scum. There is absolutely no reason why I couldn't also do it as town. This fact doesn't necessarily  mean the case is bad, but it surely makes it worse on average, and it certainly is bad here.

More reasons not to vote for me

- ash is voting for me. Historically, the people ash wants lynched day 1 are pretty much always town.
- I'll be much more useful for us than gkrieg is. Well, not hard, since gkrieg is scum with like almost 50%, but even still
- gkrieg comes of incredibly weak in our conversation, which is a fairly good metric to find scum
- Everything I've done this game is in the best interest of town
- I really really really don't want to be lynched.

[Roadrunner7671]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

If you refuse to vote, I will push you're lynch even if you were confirmed town because we can't allow someone playing such a horribly anti-town game to survive until he might lose us the game.

Sorry.

You're not sorry.

Yes, I'm sorry I wrote "you're" when I should have written "your".

I see. Apology accepted.

[faust]

Your vote was 4th on my wagon.  Right in the middle.  That is exactly when scum likes to jump on wagons.

That is a misconception. Scum does not "like" to be middlish on the wagon. Scum likes to be first (because that seems genuine) or - if it's a mislynch wagon - not on the wagon at all. It's just that things often don't work out like that, and then they're forced to jump the wagon to avoid a different lynch.

[faust]

Here he is trying to invalidate my read on him again. 

That's hilarious. You are saying trying to invalidate another player's read on you is scummy? How about this:

I repeat my answer. Have I become the new IG?  Do I always have a tussle with Faust now?

To all of the people sheeping faust: He has a bad history with reading me scum when I am really town.  Look at the last few games we have been in together!

Thanks for outing yourself as scum.

[Roadrunner7671]

Unvote
I'm messed the quote up.
PPE

[silverspawn]

@gkrieg: there is a big difference between 'refusing to explain a vote' and 'not explaining a vote'. Plenty of votes are unexplained. No-one ever asked me to explain my vote on you (although I did it anyway...) so saying that I refused to do it is insane.

Everything else you say is based on this misassumption.

How is everything else in that post based on that misassumption.

well, because you are basing (almost) everything else on that misassumption.

Here:

ss you are demanding things of me that you aren't willing to do yourself.  You haven't told me why you think I'm scummy.

 Your reasoning:

You are saying (...)


This is his reaction to me voting him:

The reason for my response of being scummy is not good enough is because he is asking me to give a reason, when his reason for voting me is that I'm scummy for not being towny.

Now he throws a policy vote on for doing exactly what he did before.

All of those parts are related to your assumption.

There's also a bit of manipulative reasoning in there when you call me out for pushing you which is a direct consequence of you not answering to me for that long.

[faust]

Alright, defense.

The reason everyone is voting form, as far as I can tell, is the fact that I demanded an explanation from the people who voted for me initially.

This should by all logic be a town tell or at worst null, but since it is apparently not, let me explain why.

As you may or may not know, I have joined every non-blitz non-bastard mafia game since my first, and I like to expand my playstyle & try things.

Requesting more thorough reasoning from others is one of the best things you can do as town, and it's like I said inspired by faust (whom I've called the best player in the past and I have taken inspiration from before, in games where I was town).

I did have the time to think about reactions when I made the post, and thought that someone might or might not call it a scum tell before. Obviously, I didn't predict this kind of reaction. But I would absolutely not do this as scum. In my first scum game, I felt pressured with one vote, WW I think called me out on it, and since then I've always ignored pressure on my entirely as scum, which has been working out pretty good. I dare anyone to find a single instance where I overreact to pressure as scum.

Granted, my last scum game is a pretty long time ago. I really want to draw town recently, and I always do, and it's great. You may also have noticed that I put a lot of effort into my games recently, which {censored because two games are ongoing although I'm dead in them}

Most importantly though, all of this 'case' is just something that I could do as scum. There is absolutely no reason why I couldn't also do it as town. This fact doesn't necessarily  mean the case is bad, but it surely makes it worse on average, and it certainly is bad here.

More reasons not to vote for me

- ash is voting for me. Historically, the people ash wants lynched day 1 are pretty much always town.
- I'll be much more useful for us than gkrieg is. Well, not hard, since gkrieg is scum with like almost 50%, but even still
- gkrieg comes of incredibly weak in our conversation, which is a fairly good metric to find scum
- Everything I've done this game is in the best interest of town
- I really really really don't want to be lynched.

Good enough for me.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: gkreig
Sorry for all my voting and unvoting recently.

SS has put up an excellent case.
PPE

[XerxesPraelor]

- ash is voting for me. Historically, the people ash wants lynched day 1 are pretty much always town.

Okay - unvote. (although I'm unvoting from PPS, because he's convinced me)

I guess vote: gkrieg seems like the best option so far (i'm actually thinking about maybe ash...)

[XerxesPraelor]

If the gkrieg wagon never fills up all the way though, I'd be okay switching to silverspawn.

[XerxesPraelor]

We really need a lynch.

[XerxesPraelor]

- ash is voting for me. Historically, the people ash wants lynched day 1 are pretty much always town.

This is the funniest reason ever. I actually think it's valid though.

[XerxesPraelor]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

I know. It is so hard to read people as scum because you know they are town...since they aren't your partners

You still think I'm scum?

I don't get how anyone could think you scum.

[iguanaiguana]

If the gkrieg wagon never fills up all the way though, I'd be okay switching to silverspawn.

Wasnt that the hammer?

[faust]

Hm... even though gkrieg is most likely getting lynched here (and rightly so), I feel like I should still think about the rest of the players. So reads:

WW - very null as usual
silverspawn - recently towny. Will not lynch today.
faust - me
hydrad - lurkish, not particularly towny. Would lynch if there weren't better options.
gkeirg - scum.
Ampharos - overall pretty null.
2.7 - the slightest of town reads.
Xerxes - still pretty null... also unmemorable, same as Hydrad.
PPS - the whole role thing was towny. Not lynching today.
Roadrunner - his usual self. Will not lynch at least until the other game is over.
EgorK - has claimed. Probably town
iguanaiguana - slight town.
Jimmmmm - lurky again, that's not good.
ash - lurky!ash is scum!ash as I recall, and what he posted wasn't towny either. Scummy, second choice after gkrieg, but with a sympathy bonus because he got lynched a lot lately.

PPE 6

[XerxesPraelor]

Requesting more thorough reasoning from others is one of the best things you can do as town, and it's like I said inspired by faust (whom I've called the best player in the past and I have taken inspiration from before, in games where I was town).

Fully endorsed, both in the asking for reasons is good, and the faust is best player.

PPE 2