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[yuma]

RMM 28: Simply Simpler Simple Mafia

Mods: yuma

This is a Role Madness Mafia game that will have 14 players. See below for more setup details

Players:
1. WW
2. silverspawn Killed Night1; Tracking Compulsive Lover
3. faust
4. hydrad
5. gkeirg Lynched Day1; Mafia Voyeuristic Self Watcher
6. Ampharos Killed Night3; Bodyguarding Even-Night Doctor
7. 2.7 Killed Night1; Compulsive Investigative Lover
8. chairs Xerxes
9. PPS Lynched Day3; Copping, Even-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer
10. Roadrunner
11. EgorK
12. iguanaiguana
13. Jimmmmm Killed Night3; 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owning Innocent Child
14. ash Lynched Day2; Delayed Ninja Jailkeeper

tagged: Xerxes, EFHW, scotty

f.ds Mafia Ruleset

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for this game. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play here.

Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable, check with the mod if you need clarifications.
2. Personal communication outside of the forum postings is NOT ALLOWED unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
3. If you have a role with a Night action, your choices are due to all mods by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start during the first few Nights; later Nights may have shorter deadlines. Some roles may require earlier submission so pay attention to PMs). If the mod does not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In some cases the mod will be forced to choose a random player for a night action if one is not submitted in time. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used. Generally, one team member may submit the Night Actions for all team members. See rule 7 under miscellaneous below if you anticipate being VLA while having a PR.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage), unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mods know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase, unless your Action is compulsory.
6. As a general rule you should aim for more than one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving. Please treat this game as a commitment. If you can't commit to this game because of outside activities/responsibilities, other forum games or other contributing factors please do not sign up or /out before the start of the game.
7. All players will be required to check-in with the mod via a PM during the night even if not submitting a night action. Day will not start until all players have checked in. Players who have not checked in may be subjected to replacement or to being modkilled unless there has been a previous stated VLA.

Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4a. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames or misspellings will be counted so long as they are unambiguous. Mistakes to the syntax will not be counted, however.
4b. Please try to place votes on a separate line from other text and to the left of the page whenever possible. This is not mandatory but will help the mod count votes easier.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics, except for twilight. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent, but will be invited to the Spectator Quicktopic.
8. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
9. This game will have 6 day deadlines (Saturday and Sunday count as 1 day) and 2 days nights.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, brown text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game. In the event of an incorrect vote count the mod has the right to revert the game state back to the state before the erroneous vote count. This means that any votes cast in the meantime will become void. Any time that was lost during this even will be added back onto for deadlines. Please note that if a mistake is not caught before a flip, the erroneous vote count will become binding.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 24 hours of no activity (VLA posts in the official VLA thread negate automatic prods). A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill, or beyond.
7. Players can be replaced during Day1 by anyone. Until Day2 players may be replaced by those in the speccy. After Night3 there will be no replacements. Any inactivity or /outs will be modkilled or dealt with by the mod.
8. If a modkill takes place during the day the following will happen: if the player killed is not-town aligned the day will immediately enter into night. If the player is town the day will continue.
9. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. If you have a Power Role and go on VLA for longer than 2 days (the time period of a Night) please submit a temporary Night Action before leaving on VLA. This will be a placeholder action in the event that you will be absent during the night. Failure to submit an action before leaving will result in a "no action" that night.
10. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread. A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique. (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed.

[yuma]

This is a "Simple" Role Madness Game

Each player will receive a role from the list below. Each players' role will be modified by two role modifiers listed below. Some roles generally thought of as roles can or will be used as modifiers. Some modifiers that are generally thought of as modifiers can or will be used as roles. (Example: Doctoring can be used as a role modifier.)

Mechanics:
- 14 Players
- Daystart
- There will be no flavor and no flavor names. I am never able to keep up with both modding duties and flavor writing, so let's just skip the flavor. It was going to be Anathema themed, but I ended up dropping that really early in the setup development process.
- Roles/modifiers were not randomized in any way. This is not a variant of Greater Idea Mafia.
- The setup was "intelligently" designed and balance was the goal but it is certainly not guaranteed. Remember this  is a Role Madness Game, albeit it a "simple one."
- All roles are standardized to the best of my abilities to what is listed in mafiascum. Some minor changes have been made to some roles and in some cases where there were multiple possibilities the mod used his own discretion.  Some roles may be considered "invented." Such roles were designed around basic mafiascum principles. All roles can be queried about after a player's death to learn more about them. See below for more details.
- The mod is only available to answer questions about an individual's role and cannot answer questions about other players' roles or hypothetical roles except to point to mafiascum (as a general reference not a hard rule book) and to the night action resolution, except in the case of players who have already died. See below for more details.
- The mod can answer questions in abstract terms about types of roles in a very general sense. Please don't get frustrated with the mod if he can't answer a specific question that you have. The mod will do the best to the mod's ability to be fair and accurate to all questions regardless of alignment.
- Because there is no flavor there will be no "kill flavor" therefore any night kills will be indistinguishable from each other.
- After a player dies and flips other surviving players may PM the mod to learn an abridged description of the dead player's role. This information may not be directly quoted in the game and will not include any specific actions or results that the dead player used or obtained. The mod has pre-created a canned response for such queries for each individual role that will be used to answer these PMs.
- Town players received their role in green.

Roles Possible in the Game

1-shot
Absorber, Alien, Arsonist, Ascetic
Babysitter, Backup, Beloved Princess, Bodyguard, Bomb, Bulletproof, Bus Driver
Commuter, Compassionate, Compulsive, Cop
Day, Day-X, Delayed, Deflector, Deputy, Desperado, Despondent, Detective, Doc, Doomed
Enabler, Even Number
Faith Healer, Firefighter, Follower, Friendly, Fruit Vendor
Gladiator, Godfather, Governor, Gunsmith
Hated, Harrowing, Heroic, Hider
Innocent Child, Inspired, Investigative, Investigation Immune
Jailor, Janitor, JK, Joat (of any combinations), Juvenile
Lighting Rod, Loud, Loved, Lover, Loyal
Mailman, Mason, Mentee, Mentor, Miller, Motion Detector
Neighbor, Night-X, Ninja, Novice, Nurse
Odd Number
Paranoid Gun Owning, Poisoner, Prime Number, Psychiatrist, Psychologist
Redirector, Reflexive, Roleblocker, Rolecop, Rolestopper
Seer, Self, Semi, Serial Killer, Seraph Knight, Side Kick, Simple, Strongman, Strong-willed, Suicidal, Survivor
Tracker, Traitor, Triggerer
Universal
Vengeful, Vigilante, Virgin, Voyeur
Warden, Watcher, Weak, Werewolves
x-day, x-shot

Order of Operations:

Roles were placed into the following groups. Players can ask the mod specifically about their own role but not about where other roles would fit into the ordering.

Replicate
Leave
Bus
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Inspect

Win Conditions:

- See individual PMs for specifics on Win Conditions.
- In the event of a standstill, non-town aligned factions will be forced to act.
- in the event of a standstill that can't be broken the mod will determine the winner from a pre-established set of criteria that will not be made public. (Think how boxing wins are rewarded when no KO occurs). This will only be used as an absolute last resort under extreme situations.

[yuma]

I also totally promise, pinky swear promise, cross my heart, stab a thousand needles in my eye sort of promise, that I will not leave this game in a complete and totally lurch like last time. I promise to never be that sort of jerk again!

[Witherweaver]

I also totally promise, pinky swear promise, cross my heart, stab a thousand needles in my eye sort of promise, that I will not leave this game in a complete and totally lurch like last time. I promise to never be that sort of jerk again!

You promise to be a new, unique kind of jerk!

\in

[silverspawn]

swims /in the ether...

[faust]

/in

[Hydrad]

/in

[gkrieg13]

/in

[ashersky]

Upset I wasn't auto in.

[yuma]

I promise to never be that sort of jerk again!

Upset I wasn't auto in.

Well so much for that....

I knew I was forgetting something

[yuma]

A couple of rule changes to pay specific attention to. I think there are a few others, but these are the important ones

6. As a general rule you should aim for more than one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving. Please treat this game as a commitment. If you can't commit to this game because of outside activities/responsibilities, other forum games or other contributing factors please do not sign up or /out before the start of the game.

...


4a. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames or misspellings will be counted so long as they are unambiguous. Mistakes to the syntax will not be counted, however.

...

4b. Please try to place votes on a separate line from other text and to the left of the page whenever possible. This is not mandatory but will help the mod count votes easier.

....

9. This game will have 6 day deadlines (Saturday and Sunday count as 1 day) and 2 days nights.

[gkrieg13]

What about a lower case v for the vote instead of a capital one?

[yuma]

What about a lower case v for the vote instead of a capital one?

That is fine. I generally use the search function to find and keep track of votes. It doesn't care about case.

[2.71828.....]

/in if it starts after the 15th.  I won't have any access from the 9-15th of this month, but after that I will be able to play.  If you get enough people and want to start before that, I am fine giving up the spot.

[yuma]

/in if it starts after the 15th.  I won't have any access from the 9-15th of this month, but after that I will be able to play.  If you get enough people and want to start before that, I am fine giving up the spot.

I imagine it won't start before that. I'll save a spot for you and it is yours unless this fills up unimaginably fast.

[XerxesPraelor]

This looks really fun. /tag

[chairs]

/in

[pingpongsam]

Tentative /in, we'll see how life is shaping up around the time the lineup actually fills

[2.71828.....]

I can see that I didn't need to worry about this game starting too soon.  Anyway, I have the itch, and this game needs to fill up.

[Roadrunner7671]

/in

[ashersky]

/out

Want/need a co?

[yuma]

/out

Want/need a co?

I'll let you know if I need help with stuff after the game starts. I don't know that I will. I would rather keep player pool/subs open than have a co-mod I might not actually need. But you will be first in line if it comes to that.

Thanks!

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to /out. This looks way over my head, but thank you for hosting anyway!

[Witherweaver]

I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to /out. This looks way over my head, but thank you for hosting anyway!

But it's simple... simply simple.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to /out. This looks way over my head, but thank you for hosting anyway!

But it's simple... simply simple.

Fine. I assumed ashersky outted because he doesn't like me so I divided to give him a chance to get back in. However, I already posted here, so this will constantly be showing up in 'new replies to your posts.'

/in

[EgorK]

/in

[Ampharos]

/in like Donkey King

[yuma]

FYI 4 spots left

[yuma]

For a couple of setup reasons this game has been shrunk by one player to 14 players (that it will help make it start a bit earlier is a fringe benefit and not the sole motivation, be assured).

As a result there are now only 3 spots currently open.

Also a few rule modifications/changes/additions for those who pay attention to those sort of things.

[pingpongsam]

Also a few rule modifications/changes/additions for those who pay attention to those sort of things.

Scum, naturally.

[iguanaiguana]

/in

[EFHW]

/tag for now

[Jimmmmm]

/in

[faust]

Wooo!

Somebody hammer! EFHW, come on!

[Witherweaver]

/in
!

[gkrieg13]

I hate fake hammers...

[silverspawn]

Somebody hammer! EFHW, come on!

[ashersky]

/in

But only because yuma asked.

[yuma]

Looks like we are full.

PMs will be going out sometime before the end of today, probably scatter-shot as I have time. Because of this the order in which PMs will be sent out will be randomized so there won't be any way to tell who received what PM based off time stamps and what not.

Thread Locked

Except to /tag or /out (but why would anyone /out?)

Please respond to Role PMs from the mod with a confirmation stating your role.

[yuma]

PMs have been sent out. Night0 will not officially start until all players have confirmed. From there Night0 will last at least 24 hours.

[scott_pilgrim]

/tag

[yuma]

All players have confirmed in record time.

Night0 starts and Day1 will begin in 24 hours!

Thread Still Locked except for /tags.

Any rule or role questions should be sent to the mod via PM.

[yuma]

Day1 Starts Now!

Vote Count 1.1

Not Voting (14): WW, silverspawn, faust, hydrad, gkeirg, Ampharos, 2.7, chairs, PPS, Roadrunner, EgorK, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, ash

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Thread Unlocked!

[yuma]

Apologies for the start delay. Vote count will be updated with end of day information soon.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Roadrunner

[gkrieg13]

vote: iguanaiguana

[iguanaiguana]

I'm town.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: ashersky for obvious reasons.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: ashersky for obvious reasons.

What reasons are those?

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: ashersky for obvious reasons.

What reasons are those?

The undisputed fact that he is scum.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: ashersky for obvious reasons.

What reasons are those?

The undisputed fact that he is scum.

I must have missed the scum tell he gave off by not checking the thread in the few hours it is up.

Your play however is looking pretty anti-town. I would vote you now, but I already did.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: ashersky for obvious reasons.

What reasons are those?

The undisputed fact that he is scum.

I must have missed the scum tell he gave off by not checking the thread in the few hours it is up.

Your play however is looking pretty anti-town. I would vote you now, but I already did.

Your read must be very accurate, based on two posts of mine.

[Jimmmmm]

Hi everyone!

[Roadrunner7671]

Hi everyone!

Hi Jimmmmm! Don't worry, I already have been read as scum.

How are you today?

[Jimmmmm]

Not too bad. I'll be out for most of the day though, so won't really be around. Yourself?

[Roadrunner7671]

Not too bad. I'll be out for most of the day though, so won't really be around. Yourself?

The Dominon Forum makes up most of my life. I will constantly be spamming the chat with questions, unvotes, complaints and defenses for myself.

It'll be a good game.

[Jimmmmm]

Not too bad. I'll be out for most of the day though, so won't really be around. Yourself?

The Dominon Forum makes up most of my life. I will constantly be spamming the chat with questions, unvotes, complaints and defenses for myself.

It'll be a good game.

More activity is generally a good thing, however try to keep it relatively helpful to the game. The worst is trying to re-read a massive thread and searching for things that are actually relevant.

[Roadrunner7671]

Not too bad. I'll be out for most of the day though, so won't really be around. Yourself?

The Dominon Forum makes up most of my life. I will constantly be spamming the chat with questions, unvotes, complaints and defenses for myself.

It'll be a good game.

More activity is generally a good thing, however try to keep it relatively helpful to the game. The worst is trying to re-read a massive thread and searching for things that are actually relevant.

Well, I will just wait for more people to say stuff, I suppose.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Yuma !

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: WW for lying on purpose.

[Witherweaver]

Lying about voting Yuma? 

[Roadrunner7671]

Lying about voting Yuma?

No, lying about this being a simple game.

[Witherweaver]

Lying about voting Yuma?

No, lying about this being a simple game.

Dude, it's in the title.

[Roadrunner7671]

Lying about voting Yuma?

No, lying about this being a simple game.

Dude, it's in the title.

But it's not in the setup I didn't read!

[Witherweaver]

For you, and only you, reading the setup is townie.

[Roadrunner7671]

For you, and only you, reading the setup is townie.

Will this last forever? <3

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.2

Roadrunner (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (1): gkrieg13
WW(1): Roadrunner

Not Voting (11): WW, silverspawn, faust, hydrad, Ampharos, 2.7, chairs, PPS, EgorK, Jimmmmm, ash

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

[Witherweaver]

For you, and only you, reading the setup is townie.

Will this last forever? <3

Yes, in the sense that if you don't, I will lynch you.

[chairs]

vote: ww for thinking that reading the setup is townie. It should be a null tell.

[Roadrunner7671]

For you, and only you, reading the setup is townie.

Will this last forever? <3

Yes, in the sense that if you don't, I will lynch you.

This is just a plot to get me informed, isn't it?

[Hydrad]

For you, and only you, reading the setup is townie.

Will this last forever? <3

Yes, in the sense that if you don't, I will lynch you.

This is just a plot to get me informed, isn't it?

reading setups is generally a useful thing.

[Hydrad]

speaking of which i'm going to read the setup.

[Roadrunner7671]

speaking of which i'm going to read the setup.

Vote: Hydrad

[Witherweaver]

vote: ww for thinking that reading the setup is townie. It should be a null tell.

Vote: Chairs for not reading my post.

[Witherweaver]

speaking of which i'm going to read the setup.

Vote: Hydrad

Haha, town points for RR

[EgorK]

I have reasons to tell y'all that I'm doctor. Discuss

[2.71828.....]

I have reasons to tell y'all that I'm doctor. Discuss

As a doctor, EgorK should attempt to predict who scum will target at night and protect them. 

As a part of the setup, I don't want to discuss what hypothetical reasons that exist for why EgorK would want to share this information.  I am satisfied that he has claimed doctor and am happy to leave it at that.

[Hydrad]

I have reasons to tell y'all that I'm doctor. Discuss

As a doctor, EgorK should attempt to predict who scum will target at night and protect them. 

As a part of the setup, I don't want to discuss what hypothetical reasons that exist for why EgorK would want to share this information.  I am satisfied that he has claimed doctor and am happy to leave it at that.

^

[silverspawn]

Last night I had a dream. This game was already open and I was going to make the first post, but when I submitted it, two other people had already posted before me. One of them was IG.

Now that that's said, on to less important stuff

I have reasons to tell y'all that I'm doctor. Discuss

I don't want to discuss (...)

I don't want to discuss (...)

^

[silverspawn]

EgorK thinks it's a good idea to discuss this? e, hydrad, why do you disagree?

vote: e

[Hydrad]

EgorK thinks it's a good idea to discuss this? e, hydrad, why do you disagree?

vote: e

Its probably actually good to discuss it. For the sake of getting out of RVS. bad for the sake of potentially figuring out why egork claimed it and might help scum.

but mainly I just did the ^ since I liked e's post. I wouldn't be terribly against discussing it.

Although discussing why we should be discussing it is also a nice way of getting potentially out of RVS and we don't even have to potentially expose a PR! Woo

[silverspawn]

EgorK thinks it's a good idea to discuss this? e, hydrad, why do you disagree?

vote: e

Its probably actually good to discuss it. For the sake of getting out of RVS. bad for the sake of potentially figuring out why egork claimed it and might help scum.

but mainly I just did the ^ since I liked e's post. I wouldn't be terribly against discussing it.

Although discussing why we should be discussing it is also a nice way of getting potentially out of RVS and we don't even have to potentially expose a PR! Woo

vote: Hydrad

[Hydrad]

EgorK thinks it's a good idea to discuss this? e, hydrad, why do you disagree?

vote: e

Its probably actually good to discuss it. For the sake of getting out of RVS. bad for the sake of potentially figuring out why egork claimed it and might help scum.

but mainly I just did the ^ since I liked e's post. I wouldn't be terribly against discussing it.

Although discussing why we should be discussing it is also a nice way of getting potentially out of RVS and we don't even have to potentially expose a PR! Woo

vote: Hydrad

it felt like a good post to me.

[iguanaiguana]

I have reasons to tell y'all that I'm doctor. Discuss

Possiblity A: Egor is town. If Egor is town, I'm inclined to believe that he is the doctor, as players who are town should not lie about their roles, since that doesn't help anyone accomplish anything and Egor is an at least competent player. So in this case:

1) He is actually doctor, but has some modification on his role that makes it virtually pointless for him to keep this fact hidden. This modification would have to be somewhat unusual as normally the doctor wants to stay hidden and will be targeted fairly quickly by scum if he doesn't stay hidden.
2) He has some other reason for attracting the attention of scum.

Possibility B: Egor is scum. In this case, he may or may not be the doctor, but:

1) if he is the doctor he is a scum doctor who can save fellow scum from being killed by other factions of scum and we should definitely lynch him. OR:
2) He's just messing with us to confuse us, because he's scum, and we'd better lynch him.

From what I've read, Egor doesn't strike me as the sort of scum to just lie and claim doctor to troll the town, so overall I'm getting a slight town read on EgorK, maybe 60% important town, 40% really dangerous scum.

[silverspawn]

maybe 60% important town, 40% really dangerous scum.

that would be a pretty strong scum read.

[iguanaiguana]

maybe 60% important town, 40% really dangerous scum.

that would be a pretty strong scum read.

Why? Wouldn't a "null" be 50/50?

[Jimmmmm]

maybe 60% important town, 40% really dangerous scum.

that would be a pretty strong scum read.

Why? Wouldn't a "null" be 50/50?

Null would be roughly 3/13 (give or take depending on how many scum you think there are likely to be).

[iguanaiguana]

maybe 60% important town, 40% really dangerous scum.

that would be a pretty strong scum read.

Why? Wouldn't a "null" be 50/50?

Null would be roughly 3/13 (give or take depending on how many scum you think there are likely to be).

Okay, understood. What I meant to say is that his statement about having a reason to claim doctor seems to be more like something that a town member would say for an actual reason than something that scum would fake in order to trick us, although one statement is certainly not enough to convince me that he is town and being sincere.

As you've pointed out, there are fewer scum than town so if you're good at math feel free to skew my percentages for greater accuracy.

[faust]

Hi.

Egor is totally town. As to why he claimed wha he did, I have no clue. I mean, I could try to match the various roles that are possible this game with Doctor, and see if any of them leads to him being willing to claim... I don't see the upside of this exercise though.

Also, I agree with silver.

Vote: e

[faust]

And I like the iguana. Can I keep it?

[gkrieg13]

No keeping mafia pets!  E sounds like e trying to get town points. Normally you would want to stop people from discussing claims. I think in RMM it's fine to talk about claims because part of the fun is to piece together how things work.

[faust]

The list in the OP is horrible. I'm trying to make it more readable.

1-shot
Absorber, Alien, Arsonist, Ascetic
Babysitter, Backup, Beloved Princess, Bodyguard, Bomb, Bulletproof, Bus Driver
Commuter, Compassionate, Compulsive, Cop
Day, Day-X, Delayed, Deflector, Deputy, Desperado, Despondent, Detective, Doc, Doomed
Enabler, Even Number
Faith Healer, Firefighter, Follower, Friendly, Fruit Vendor
Gladiator, Godfather, Governor, Gunsmith
Hated, Harrowing, Heroic, Hider
Innocent Child, Inspired, Investigative, Investigation Immune
Jailor, Janitor, JK, Joat (of any combinations), Juvenile
Lighting Rod, Loud, Loved, Lover, Loyal
Mailman, Mason, Mentee, Mentor, Miller, Motion Detector
Neighbor, Night-X, Ninja, Novice, Nurse
Odd Number
Paranoid Gun Owning, Poisoner, Prime Number, Psychiatrist, Psychologist
Redirector, Reflexive, Roleblocker, Rolecop, Rolestopper
Seer, Self, Semi, Serial Killer, Seraph Knight, Side Kick, Simple, Strongman, Strong-willed, Suicidal, Survivor
Tracker, Traitor, Triggerer
Universal
Vengeful, Vigilante, Virgin, Voyeur
Warden, Watcher, Weak, Werewolves
x-day, x-shot

The bolded roles have no entry in the mafiascum wiki. yuma, can you tell us what they do?

[faust]

I changed my mind.

Vote: silverspawn

[faust]

I have figured out the reason for Egor's claim: He wants to be night killed rather than lynched for once.

[ashersky]

vote: silverspawn

[gkrieg13]

I have figured out the reason for Egor's claim: He wants to be night killed rather than lynched for once.

+1

[gkrieg13]

I changed my mind.

Vote: silverspawn

Why the change in opinion?
vote: faust

[faust]

I changed my mind.

Vote: silverspawn

Why the change in opinion?
vote: faust

Because e's post is less of a grab for towncred than silver's. I'm skeptical whether town!silver would actually trust that Egor knows what he's doing.

Why is me changing my opinion scummy?

[gkrieg13]

I changed my mind.

Vote: silverspawn

Why the change in opinion?
vote: faust

Because e's post is less of a grab for towncred than silver's. I'm skeptical whether town!silver would actually trust that Egor knows what he's doing.

Why is me changing my opinion scummy?

It was just how fast you changed your opinion without either of them posting in between.

[faust]

I changed my mind.

Vote: silverspawn

Why the change in opinion?
vote: faust

Because e's post is less of a grab for towncred than silver's. I'm skeptical whether town!silver would actually trust that Egor knows what he's doing.

Why is me changing my opinion scummy?

It was just how fast you changed your opinion without either of them posting in between.

I repeat my question.

[gkrieg13]

I repeat my answer. Have I become the new IG?  Do I always have a tussle with Faust now?

[Roadrunner7671]

I repeat my answer. Have I become the new IG?  Do I always have a tussle with Faust now?

Just say that's it must be personal to make him uncomfortable.

[faust]

I repeat my answer. Have I become the new IG?  Do I always have a tussle with Faust now?

Okay, do I have to get more precise...?

Why is changing my opinion quickly, without the other players posting in between, scummy?

[faust]

I repeat my answer. Have I become the new IG?  Do I always have a tussle with Faust now?

Just say that's it must be personal to make him uncomfortable.

I don't like that you give out advice to people who are voting for me. Well, I guess it must be personal.

[gkrieg13]

The quickly part makes it seem like you're trying to get town points. Switching is a townie thing to do. Switching quickly sounded like you trying to get points for doing a townie thing.

[faust]

The quickly part makes it seem like you're trying to get town points. Switching is a townie thing to do. Switching quickly sounded like you trying to get points for doing a townie thing.

And here I was hoping you'd give a townie answer to that question. Oh well.

[yuma]

The list in the OP is horrible. I'm trying to make it more readable.

1-shot
Absorber, Alien, Arsonist, Ascetic
Babysitter, Backup, Beloved Princess, Bodyguard, Bomb, Bulletproof, Bus Driver
Commuter, Compassionate, Compulsive, Cop
Day, Day-X, Delayed, Deflector, Deputy, Desperado, Despondent, Detective, Doc, Doomed
Enabler, Even Number
Faith Healer, Firefighter, Follower, Friendly, Fruit Vendor
Gladiator, Godfather, Governor, Gunsmith
Hated, Harrowing, Heroic, Hider
Innocent Child, Inspired, Investigative, Investigation Immune
Jailor, Janitor, JK, Joat (of any combinations), Juvenile
Lighting Rod, Loud, Loved, Lover, Loyal
Mailman, Mason, Mentee, Mentor, Miller, Motion Detector
Neighbor, Night-X, Ninja, Novice, Nurse
Odd Number
Paranoid Gun Owning, Poisoner, Prime Number, Psychiatrist, Psychologist
Redirector, Reflexive, Roleblocker, Rolecop, Rolestopper
Seer, Self, Semi, Serial Killer, Seraph Knight, Side Kick, Simple, Strongman, Strong-willed, Suicidal, Survivor
Tracker, Traitor, Triggerer
Universal
Vengeful, Vigilante, Virgin, Voyeur
Warden, Watcher, Weak, Werewolves
x-day, x-shot

The bolded roles have no entry in the mafiascum wiki. yuma, can you tell us what they do?

I have modified the OP so that it is organized as you did.

Some of the roles do have a mafiascum wiki. You just may not be looking hard enough.

For the others all I can say is what I have said before in the rules:

All roles are standardized to the best of my abilities to what is listed in mafiascum. Some minor changes have been made to some roles and in some cases where there were multiple possibilities the mod used his own discretion.  Some roles may be considered "invented." Such roles were designed around basic mafiascum principles. All roles can be queried about after a player's death to learn more about them. See below for more details.

AND

After a player dies and flips other surviving players may PM the mod to learn an abridged description of the dead player's role. This information may not be directly quoted in the game and will not include any specific actions or results that the dead player used or obtained. The mod has pre-created a canned response for such queries for each individual role that will be used to answer these PMs.

[faust]

Okay... I was expecting this sort of answer. It is even more of an answer than I had hoped for.

We should keep in mind that the roles that cannot be found here are more likely to be in the game (I think?). This will get relevant once we get to claiming.

[gkrieg13]

Okay... I was expecting this sort of answer. It is even more of an answer than I had hoped for.

We should keep in mind that the roles that cannot be found here are more likely to be in the game (I think?). This will get relevant once we get to claiming.

Agreed. Yuma would be more excited to reveal the ones he invented after the flip. Is it normal to have an after the flip ask any question rule?

[Witherweaver]

Slight town on Egor and Iguana.

[Witherweaver]

I have figured out the reason for Egor's claim: He wants to be night killed rather than lynched for once.

+1

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Silverspawn

[Witherweaver]

The quickly part makes it seem like you're trying to get town points. Switching is a townie thing to do. Switching quickly sounded like you trying to get points for doing a townie thing.

So that's how to get town points?

In that case, Egor and Iguana are scum and Silver is town.

[silverspawn]

I changed my mind.

Vote: silverspawn

I wasn't trying to get towncred. I just saw Egork saying 'discuss' and then two people immediately dismissing discussion.

[faust]

I changed my mind.

Vote: silverspawn

I wasn't trying to get towncred. I just saw Egork saying 'discuss' and then two people immediately dismissing discussion.

I have to say I would have been very surprised had you admitted to trying to get towncred. So, what's the point of this post?

[silverspawn]

I changed my mind.

Vote: silverspawn

I wasn't trying to get towncred. I just saw Egork saying 'discuss' and then two people immediately dismissing discussion.

I have to say I would have been very surprised had you admitted to trying to get towncred. So, what's the point of this post?

If I were anyone else, I agree that this post is trivial. But since I have admitted to being extremely self-concious before, I don't think it is.

Although I didn't think 'I want to make this point with this post' I just gave a spontaneous answer.

[faust]

I think I want to vote gkrieg actually. He's already done two scummy things: Tried to invalidate my read on him and made up a weak reason for a bad vote.

Vote: gkrieg

[silverspawn]

Do you (not) think that Hydrad immediately sheeping e's 'I don't want to discuss' thing was scummy?

[faust]

Do you (not) think that Hydrad immediately sheeping e's 'I don't want to discuss' thing was scummy?

A bit. Not as scummy as what gkrieg did though.

[Witherweaver]

Do you (not) think that Hydrad immediately sheeping e's 'I don't want to discuss' thing was scummy?

It's distinctively Hydrad-y

[Witherweaver]

I think I want to vote gkrieg actually. He's already done two scummy things: Tried to invalidate my read on him and made up a weak reason for a bad vote.

Vote: gkrieg

Scum doesn't like to have bad reasons.

[Roadrunner7671]

Man, this game is really tough. I think I will be a sheep until people get tired of my presence and lynch/NK me.

[Witherweaver]

Man, this game is really tough. I think I will be a sheep until people get tired of my presence and lynch/NK me.

Just vote whomever I'm voting.

Even if it's you.

[Roadrunner7671]

Man, this game is really tough. I think I will be a sheep until people get tired of my presence and lynch/NK me.

Just vote whomever I'm voting.

Even if it's you.

At this point, I am actually okay with that, as long as you provide reason to why you're voting for a person.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.3

Roadrunner (1): iguanaiguana
WW (1): chairs
Hydrad (2): RR, SS
SS (2): ashersky, WW
faust (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg (1): faust

Not Voting (6): hydrad, Ampharos, 2.7, PPS, EgorK, Jimmmmm

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

[EgorK]

Discuss part was for getting out of RVS. I think it succeded. I do not mind you discussing my reasons from getting my alignment perspective, but I would appreciate if you would not explain scum why exactly I'd do it as town.

Otherwise I was away from home all day, I'd need to reread what happened.

What I remeber is slight town points for Hydrad as he do give different vibe unlike his scum games as of late

[Ampharos]

Hi all, just wanted to let you know I'm not hiding, just have been doing home repairs all day and will catch up on everything tonight and have some more to say then.  Thanks!

[faust]

Hi all, just wanted to let you know I'm not hiding, just have been doing home repairs all day and will catch up on everything tonight and have some more to say then.  Thanks!

I suppose you'll just sheep everyone.

[iguanaiguana]

EgorK: Town. I think it's risky to fakeclaim doctor right off the bat as scum.

Hydrad: Slight town. Hydrad doesn't always carefully analyze a post before he posts that he agrees with it. That doesn't make him scum, it just makes him Hydrad.

Roadrunner: Null, everything he's said is indicative of his personal feelings and nothing has been indicative of alignment. I still, however, very much like his lynch for the town.

Faust: Null, he's basically just sherlock holmes; how do you even read that?

Silverspawn: Null, I don't see the case against him here. Honestly, I think he's just misreading Hydrad, and he could be doing that as scum or as town.

E: Slight scum. His first post was scummy, but that's not enough on its own. I don't think e being scummy here makes Hydrad look scummy at all, though.

Gkrieg: Scummy, I don't like his going after Faust and his reasons for doing it are just bad.


I tried my best here! Please don't tear it apart too harshly!

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Gkrieg

[Hydrad]

iguana have you read previous mafia games or something?

[iguanaiguana]

I don't do something unless I am planning on trying to do it well.


So yes I did some recommended reading.

[iguanaiguana]

Good news tho bro,

I think we are both town! Unless you are scum and lying to me and then I will lynch you with deep and abiding hatred.

[2.71828.....]

I repeat my answer. Have I become the new IG?  Do I always have a tussle with Faust now?

Just say that's it must be personal to make him uncomfortable.

Ok, I don't know if this is a joke or not, but it isn't funny.  Well, I don't find it funny at least.

-- That said, all players are required to treat each other in a civil manner. What does this mean? Your criticisms of other players should not rise to the level of personal attacks.

I work under the assumption that nothing said in these games is a personal attack on me.  Nothing I say is a personal attack either, and should you believe that I have made a personal attack please PM the mod and let him know.  I fully trust Yuma to sort out any real difficulties that people should have.

-------

On a lighter note, I think faust is town right now.  I think switching opinions that quickly is more something faust would do as town than as scum.

[Ampharos]

Okay, I've caught up. 

EgorK is the most intriguing thing that's happened.  Initial thought is he wants to die night one.  Highly doubt he is scum unless he's got some cool trick up his sleeve.  Would not vote him at this point in the game without new information.

gkrieg is the second most intriguing thing.  Dat entrance.  I was thinking it tasted scumalicious before I got to the point where a couple others brought it up, but I can't prove that to you other than with unique and annoying hashtags #hipstermafiaplayer #youlljusthavetotakemywordforit

As for "sheeping" people, it's a term I haven't heard before, but I assume that means I blinding follow the pack, which, nah.  I usually just explode off in random direction.  But since my wool is long right now and could use a good pair of shears:

Vote: Gkrieg

[2.71828.....]

Also, EgorK claiming like that feels different than EgorK I have played with in the past.  A good different.  I like it.

I still don't like tons of discussion on roles and such.  I think for RMM it is in town's best interest to go one (maybe two) nights without revealing anything so that scum cannot make an organized effort to stop powerful town roles.  I am a big proponent of claiming around D3 or so.  Depends on how things are going.

[2.71828.....]

EgorK is the most intriguing thing that's happened.  Initial thought is he wants to die night one.  Highly doubt he is scum unless he's got some cool trick up his sleeve.  Would not vote him at this point in the game without new information.

This is exactly why he would do something like this as scum.  Because everyone is giving him tons of town credit.  And actually, doctor is something that I feel scum can claim fairly easily and fake for a few days.  Now, if you don't get NKed it gets suspicious, but then scum don't have to play for flawless victory, but for victory. 

Sacrifice your queen if it means you checkmate your opponent.

[2.71828.....]

That being said, unless EgorK has completely rebranded himself, I don't see scum!EgorK doing this.  I am willing to give him those couple days of not lynching.

D1 pass for EgorK!

[Ampharos]

I had this thought too.  But really it just becomes all WIFOM and when that's the case I typically just go with the most simple explanation: he wants this attention on him, for whatever reason.  What is concerning is that he's the informed minority, and leaves town in almost as much of the dark as we were before, possibly moreso.  And that's not helpful.  I'm pretty sure he has his own motives, and am not inclined to analyze more since it's probably going to do more harm then good if I come to some sort of conclusion about his current state, and am just leaving him where he was before he made that statement: at a big old "?". 

But it is something to keep in mind and watch with much popcorns.

[Witherweaver]

EgorK is the most intriguing thing that's happened.  Initial thought is he wants to die night one.  Highly doubt he is scum unless he's got some cool trick up his sleeve.  Would not vote him at this point in the game without new information.

This is exactly why he would do something like this as scum.  Because everyone is giving him tons of town credit.  And actually, doctor is something that I feel scum can claim fairly easily and fake for a few days.  Now, if you don't get NKed it gets suspicious, but then scum don't have to play for flawless victory, but for victory. 

Sacrifice your queen if it means you checkmate your opponent.

I think scum would do it, sure, but EgorK in particular I don't think so.

Okay, I see now you agree:

That being said, unless EgorK has completely rebranded himself, I don't see scum!EgorK doing this.  I am willing to give him those couple days of not lynching.

D1 pass for EgorK!

[faust]

Of course if I were a scum team member choosing who should do this gambit, I would choose Egor for this exact reason.

[faust]

The reason Egor is town is that this is not what a scum fakeclaim looks like.

[Witherweaver]

Interesting.

[iguanaiguana]

Ampharos, the joke on you "sheeping" is that your forum identity is the final evolution of a sheep pokemon (you probably knew that).

Town read on Ampharos so far.

Ashersky, any reason for lurking?

[faust]

You guys should do more stuff. I'm in a game again; why is it so slow?

Post count:

WW - 16
silverspawn - 7
faust - 17
Hydrad - 6
gkrieg - 8
Ampharos - 3
2.7 - 5
chairs - 1
PPS - 0
Roadrunner - 15
EgorK - 2
iguanaiguana - 12
Jimmmmm - 4
ash - 1

Things of note:

- I win!
- PPS is in this game? Wooo!
- It's annoying that RR's forum name is not his Goko username. I searched for his posts by searching for the word "Scout". It works!
-- on that note, shouldn't Goko usernames be replaced by Making Fun usernames?

That was very insightful.

[iguanaiguana]

You guys should do more stuff.

There is nothing more for me to do until some other people do some more stuff.

I'd like to hear a defense from Gkrieg. Would a few more people threaten to lynch him so that he comes out of the woodworks and explains his behavior?

That might get things moving along.

Also, does anyone find it scummy that I forgot to do a read on WW?

Hint: it's not. I just forgot.

WW: Very very null. He has 16 posts that contribute almost nothing at all. For most people, I would call it scummy but for WW I think that's just normal.

[ashersky]

Using "post by: username" in the print screen is still the easiest, and requires no additional usernames.

[pingpongsam]

Things of note:
- PPS is in this game? Wooo!

Glad you mentioned it. I appreciate the opportunity to play this day.

[Jimmmmm]

Checking in. Weekend start wasn't the best for me.

[faust]

Using "post by: username" in the print screen is still the easiest, and requires no additional usernames.

But the print screen is ugly!

[faust]

Tell me, iguana: How much site meta do you know? Because it seems like quite a bit.

[yuma]

Xerxes has replaced chairs

[Roadrunner7671]

This game is moving too slowly? What do you want, someone at L-1?
Or a mass claim?

I don't even know who I'm voting for, I will have to consult WW.

[silverspawn]

I'm in the 'don't share all my thoughts' mindset right now, which admittedly is sort of unhelpful to get games going.

PPS, why aren't you more of a presence? the only players who are guaranteed town are you and I, so shouldn't you make the game revolve around you? Or are you saying you're scum?

[silverspawn]

you're scum

oh - well, if I said it, it must be correct

vote: PPS

I'm so smart!

[silverspawn]

if you're town, I can always blame myself

[Roadrunner7671]

you're scum

oh - well, if I said it, it must be correct

vote: PPS

I'm so smart!

WHO IS PPS?

[faust]

you're scum

oh - well, if I said it, it must be correct

vote: PPS

I'm so smart!

WHO IS PPS?

A kinda spiraly guy with horns.

[Roadrunner7671]

you're scum

oh - well, if I said it, it must be correct

vote: PPS

I'm so smart!

WHO IS PPS?

A kinda spiraly guy with horns.

Is he in this Mafia game?

[faust]

you're scum

oh - well, if I said it, it must be correct

vote: PPS

I'm so smart!

WHO IS PPS?

A kinda spiraly guy with horns.

Is he in this Mafia game?

Your homework assignment is to check whether this is the case.

[Roadrunner7671]

- It's annoying that RR's forum name is not his Goko username. I searched for his posts by searching for the word "Scout". It works!

I am flattered.

[Roadrunner7671]

you're scum

oh - well, if I said it, it must be correct

vote: PPS

I'm so smart!

WHO IS PPS?

A kinda spiraly guy with horns.

Is he in this Mafia game?

Your homework assignment is to check whether this is the case.

I did, and I don't think he is.

[Roadrunner7671]

I stand corrected.

[gkrieg13]

I'd like to hear a defense from Gkrieg. Would a few more people threaten to lynch him so that he comes out of the woodworks and explains his behavior?

I don't feel like I've been particularly scummy.  I was looking for something to have a real vote on.  RR seems like his towny self, it seems weird to me that ash is being so quiet - might just be a new tactic for him. 

unvote.  Faust is seeming townier with his chatter and trying to get the game moving.  WW also seems towny to me. 

PPS being so quite is also off for him. 

vote: PPS

[Roadrunner7671]

RR seems like his towny self

What's that like?

[gkrieg13]

RR seems like his towny self

What's that like?

Well now that I've seen you flip town, it is easy to spot town!you.

[Roadrunner7671]

RR seems like his towny self

What's that like?

Well now that I've seen you flip town, it is easy to spot town!you.

But like, what are my town tells?

[Witherweaver]

RR seems like his towny self

What's that like?

Well now that I've seen you flip town, it is easy to spot town!you.

But you've never seen him as scum; how do you know he's not the same?

[gkrieg13]

But you've never seen him as scum; how do you know he's not the same?

I don't think he'll be able to reproduce it.

[faust]

RR seems like his towny self

What's that like?

Well now that I've seen you flip town, it is easy to spot town!you.

Maybe... but I have not yet gotten the same super townie vibes from RR so far here.

[faust]

Does anyone else have an opinion on gkrieg?

[Roadrunner7671]

Does anyone else have an opinion on gkrieg?

Maybe we should suggests that everyone does a read list.

[faust]

Does anyone else have an opinion on gkrieg?

Maybe we should suggests that everyone does a read list.

No.

[Roadrunner7671]

Does anyone else have an opinion on gkrieg?

Maybe we should suggests that everyone does a read list.

No.

Why not?

[EgorK]

Yep, weekend start when I have things to do both days is not the best for me. Let's reread this while it is just 7 pages

[iguanaiguana]

Tell me, iguana: How much site meta do you know? Because it seems like quite a bit.

I see absolutely no reason to answer a question like this. But maybe you can entice me by convincing me why it would be good for town?

[faust]

Tell me, iguana: How much site meta do you know? Because it seems like quite a bit.

I see absolutely no reason to answer a question like this. But maybe you can entice me by convincing me why it would be good for town?

Because knowing how much you know about playing mafia here helps us evaluate your play. Which is especially important since we don't know how you play.

[faust]

And maybe you wish to tell me how answering that question would hurt town?

[iguanaiguana]

Tell me, iguana: How much site meta do you know? Because it seems like quite a bit.

Tell me, iguana: How much site meta do you know? Because it seems like quite a bit.

I see absolutely no reason to answer a question like this. But maybe you can entice me by convincing me why it would be good for town?

Because knowing how much you know about playing mafia here helps us evaluate your play. Which is especially important since we don't know how you play.

It seems like you can just apply your Sherlock Holmes ability to what I've been saying, and you'll be fine.

It's also public knowledge that I've tagged M70 and ZM22.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.4

WW (1): Xerxes
Hydrad (1): RR
SS (2): ashersky, WW
gkrieg (3): faust, iguanaiguana, Ampharos
PPS (2): silverspawn, gkrieg13

Not Voting (5): hydrad, 2.7, PPS, EgorK, Jimmmmm

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

[Witherweaver]

But you've never seen him as scum; how do you know he's not the same?

I don't think he'll be able to reproduce it.

I'm not saying he would reproduce it, I'm saying that those attributes which you attribute to "town!RR" could simply be characteristics of RR, regardless of alignment.  One game is not enough information to extrapolate a meta.

[Roadrunner7671]

But you've never seen him as scum; how do you know he's not the same?

I don't think he'll be able to reproduce it.

I'm not saying he would reproduce it, I'm saying that those attributes which you attribute to "town!RR" could simply be characteristics of RR, regardless of alignment.  One game is not enough information to extrapolate a meta.

Is WW inferring that I am scum? Or is he saying that you shouldn't judge me so quickly?

[Witherweaver]

But you've never seen him as scum; how do you know he's not the same?

I don't think he'll be able to reproduce it.

I'm not saying he would reproduce it, I'm saying that those attributes which you attribute to "town!RR" could simply be characteristics of RR, regardless of alignment.  One game is not enough information to extrapolate a meta.

Is WW inferring that I am scum? Or is he saying that you shouldn't judge me so quickly?

I don't have a read on you.

[iguanaiguana]

Roadrunner, so far at least, is not good for town and seems like a very reasonable day one lynch target, and if anyone takes any interest in that I will be happy to lend my vote.

He could very well be scum.

[gkrieg13]

Roadrunner, so far at least, is not good for town and seems like a very reasonable day one lynch target, and if anyone takes any interest in that I will be happy to lend my vote.

He could very well be scum.

What makes you see him as scum?  I agree that he doesn't help town very much.

[iguanaiguana]

Roadrunner, so far at least, is not good for town and seems like a very reasonable day one lynch target, and if anyone takes any interest in that I will be happy to lend my vote.

He could very well be scum.

What makes you see him as scum?  I agree that he doesn't help town very much.

Nothing makes me think of him as scum or as town. I'm simply saying that if most people are pretty close to a null read right now (Like right now I'm voting for you, but my scum read on you is actually based on very little), then he's still a great lynch target day one because is he's scum, we hit scum and if he's town, we eliminated a distraction.

[Witherweaver]

Iguana coming in new and trimming the fat.  Ruthless.

[iguanaiguana]

Iguana coming in new and trimming the fat.  Ruthless.

The best possible outcome of me pursuing this line of play is that town!Roadrunner realizes the hostile situation he's in and does something useful to redeem himself so that we don't lynch him.

The second best outcome is that we lynch scum!roadrunner

...and the worst outcome is that we lynch town!roadrunner.

My question to everyone else here is: does the worst outcome really look that bad?

[Witherweaver]

... the best outcome is that we lynch him and he's scum.  Lynching scum is a lot better than avoiding lynching a town.

But, yes, I get your point.   

[iguanaiguana]

I suppose another outcome would be that someone else scumslips while hopping on the roadrunner lynchwagon, and, let's face it, that's also a very desirable thing for town.

So yeah, I just really see no downside.

[Roadrunner7671]

Wow. That is cold-blooded, even coming from an iguana.

I am pretty good at saving my own skin.

However, if you have a 'slight scum read' on gkreig and a null read on me, wouldn't gkreig (for example) be a better lynch target?

PPE: 3

[Roadrunner7671]

I suppose another outcome would be that someone else scumslips while hopping on the roadrunner lynchwagon, and, let's face it, that's also a very desirable thing for town.

So yeah, I just really see no downside.

Hello? A downside would be killing me if I was a PR, which is likely in this setup.

[gkrieg13]

I suppose another outcome would be that someone else scumslips while hopping on the roadrunner lynchwagon, and, let's face it, that's also a very desirable thing for town.

So yeah, I just really see no downside.

Hello? A downside would be killing me if I was a PR, which is likely in this setup.

Everyone is a PR.

[iguanaiguana]

I suppose another outcome would be that someone else scumslips while hopping on the roadrunner lynchwagon, and, let's face it, that's also a very desirable thing for town.

So yeah, I just really see no downside.

Hello? A downside would be killing me if I was a PR, which is likely in this setup.

Man, haven't you ever seen the incredibles?

If everyone's a superhero, no one is.

[Roadrunner7671]

I suppose another outcome would be that someone else scumslips while hopping on the roadrunner lynchwagon, and, let's face it, that's also a very desirable thing for town.

So yeah, I just really see no downside.

Hello? A downside would be killing me if I was a PR, which is likely in this setup.

Man, haven't you ever seen the incredibles?

If everyone's a superhero, no one is.

I could be a bulletproof doctor!

[pingpongsam]

I'm in the 'don't share all my thoughts' mindset right now, which admittedly is sort of unhelpful to get games going.

PPS, why aren't you more of a presence? the only players who are guaranteed town are you and I, so shouldn't you make the game revolve around you? Or are you saying you're scum?

I appreciate your attention to me. It makes it hard to play without it.

[pingpongsam]

 

PPS being so quite is also off for him. 

vote: PPS

You've got the right idea but the vote is overkill.

[iguanaiguana]

Man, I don't know you at all but this feels like a scummy entrance.

Vote: PPS

[pingpongsam]

PPS, why aren't you more of a presence? the only players who are guaranteed town are you and I, so shouldn't you make the game revolve around you? Or are you saying you're scum?

Making the game revolve around me lost town the last game I did it. The mod seems to have a sense of humor because this go round I don't have much choice in the matter. Does anyone else feel like their role is specifically matched to them?

[Witherweaver]

PPS, why aren't you more of a presence? the only players who are guaranteed town are you and I, so shouldn't you make the game revolve around you? Or are you saying you're scum?

Making the game revolve around me lost town the last game I did it. The mod seems to have a sense of humor because this go round I don't have much choice in the matter. Does anyone else feel like their role is specifically matched to them?

OH MY GOD YOU'RE A COMPULSIVE SELF VOTER?!??!

[pingpongsam]

Man, I don't know you at all but this feels like a scummy entrance.

Vote: PPS

Yes, you clearly don't know me at all...

[faust]

I suppose another outcome would be that someone else scumslips while hopping on the roadrunner lynchwagon, and, let's face it, that's also a very desirable thing for town.

So yeah, I just really see no downside.

I would rather lynch a lurker than someone who may not have the highest amount of content in his posts, but at least does post.

[Roadrunner7671]

I suppose another outcome would be that someone else scumslips while hopping on the roadrunner lynchwagon, and, let's face it, that's also a very desirable thing for town.

So yeah, I just really see no downside.

I would rather lynch a lurker than someone who may not have the highest amount of content in his posts, but at least does post.

As long as Sherlock is on my side, I don't think I'm going to get lynched.

<3 Faust

[pingpongsam]

PPS, why aren't you more of a presence? the only players who are guaranteed town are you and I, so shouldn't you make the game revolve around you? Or are you saying you're scum?

Making the game revolve around me lost town the last game I did it. The mod seems to have a sense of humor because this go round I don't have much choice in the matter. Does anyone else feel like their role is specifically matched to them?

OH MY GOD YOU'RE A COMPULSIVE SELF VOTER?!??!

No, more like the opposite. Let's just say the last thing I would be advised to do is vote myself.

[XerxesPraelor]

I am here - it may take some time to catch up - I have 6-7 pages of essay to write today.

[2.71828.....]

I am here - it may take some time to catch up - I have 6-7 pages of essay to write today.

Don't worry, there hasn't been a whole lot going on.  EgorK claimed, faust is being heavily sheeped, new guys are talking about random stuff.  Nothing groundbreaking

[2.71828.....]

This weekend has been a slow one to start on, but I will be around today and should be able to pick up my content some

[Roadrunner7671]

I am here - it may take some time to catch up - I have 6-7 pages of essay to write today.

Don't worry, there hasn't been a whole lot going on.  EgorK claimed, faust is being heavily sheeped, new guys are talking about random stuff.  Nothing groundbreaking

And people trying to lynch other people for absolutely no reason.

[2.71828.....]

Ok, lets organize people.

New guys I don't really want to lynch because they are new
Roadrunner
iguana
Ampharos

People who are "too useful to lynch D1"
Ashersky
WW
silverspawn
faust

People who are cool because they stepped up and subbed in
XP

People who have claimed and I won't be lynching
EgorK

People who are leftover and are fall-back D1 lynch candidates
hydrad
gkrieg
PPS
Jimmmmm

-----

Now, with these lists are awful.  But I enjoy using them.  So for now,

vote: gkrieg

[2.71828.....]

I am here - it may take some time to catch up - I have 6-7 pages of essay to write today.

Don't worry, there hasn't been a whole lot going on.  EgorK claimed, faust is being heavily sheeped, new guys are talking about random stuff.  Nothing groundbreaking

And people trying to lynch other people for absolutely no reason.

I fully develop all my reasons.  See previous post

[faust]

faust is being heavily sheeped

vote: gkrieg

I like your style.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.5

WW (1): Xerxes
Hydrad (1): RR
SS (2): ashersky, WW
gkrieg (3): faust, Ampharos, 2.7
PPS (3): silverspawn, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana

Not Voting (4): hydrad, PPS, EgorK, Jimmmmm

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day1 will end Thursday, November 5 at 8:30 pm forum time

[silverspawn]

PPS, why aren't you more of a presence? the only players who are guaranteed town are you and I, so shouldn't you make the game revolve around you? Or are you saying you're scum?

Making the game revolve around me lost town the last game I did it.

true, though... well I thought that it's the kind of unconventional play which is legit. Pretty sure I wouldn't have pushed your lynch in that game, and it felt like town misplay.

I don't find it hard to believe that you change things up, but - do you remember ASoIaF mafia? that was my first game as scum, and we were in a team, and you got lynched day 1 for not being crazy enough.,

[silverspawn]

Or, well, you got lynched after someone accused you of not being crazy enough and you reacting with a self-vote. maybe it's not the same.

[Roadrunner7671]

Call me a softie, but I don't really want to lynch gkreig. I want to sheep Faust, but I'm just not feeling it. Sorry guys.

[silverspawn]

Call me a softie, but I don't really want to lynch gkreig. I want to sheep Faust, but I'm just not feeling it. Sorry guys.

I'll never forgive you.

[Roadrunner7671]

Call me a softie, but I don't really want to lynch gkreig. I want to sheep Faust, but I'm just not feeling it. Sorry guys.

I'll never forgive you.

I'm sorry!

[silverspawn]

Call me a softie, but I don't really want to lynch gkreig. I want to sheep Faust, but I'm just not feeling it. Sorry guys.

I'll never forgive you.

I'm sorry!

What I meant to say was, in case it wasn't clear: you shouldn't apologize for not sheeping. Not sheeping just means having your own thoughts. If anything, sheeping someone needs justification.

[Hydrad]

Hmm. I have nothing to contribute still but I hate how my meta is lurking so I wanted to post but I couldn't think of anything useful to write so now this is just a post that doesn't help at all unless we get into a discussion about how this could be a scummy post.

I'm helping!

[pingpongsam]

Or, well, you got lynched after someone accused you of not being crazy enough and you reacting with a self-vote. maybe it's not the same.

The new kids are voting me for being crazy and the old guard is voting me for not being crazy enough. And you guys wonder why I'm always ignoring status quo...

My particular role makes this game particularly tough for me. I have a soft post restriction if you haven't noticed. Also self voting would be extremely detrimental for town so you won't be seeing that here. I'm basically playing from timeout.

[iguanaiguana]

I was just being stupid. I need to go back to my first gut reaction,

Vote: Gkrieg

[gkrieg13]

My particular role makes this game particularly tough for me. I have a soft post restriction if you haven't noticed. Also self voting would be extremely detrimental for town so you won't be seeing that here. I'm basically playing from timeout.

Interesting.  That does seem like it is picked specifically for you!  Maybe that is the same for ashersky?

[pingpongsam]

Interesting.  That does seem like it is picked specifically for you!  Maybe that is the same for ashersky?

What is the case on you?

[gkrieg13]

I found Faust scummy for changing his mind so quickly.

[silverspawn]

meh

vote: gkrieg

[2.71828.....]

Look at this!  A real wagon!

Also, soft posting restriction.  Interesting.  I think PPS is telling the truth.  posting restrictions are usually bastard, so I don't think someone would fake claim one.

[gkrieg13]

meh

vote: gkrieg

What does this mean?

[Roadrunner7671]

meh

vote: gkrieg

What does this mean?

It means he wants to lynch you.

[Ampharos]

I wish I had two votes, cause I want to put one on faust too.   

"All I want for Christmas is an extra vote, an extra vote"

I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about the gk wagon, but I always have these thoughts about pretty much any wagon anyways, so I'm ignoring those thoughts for now.

[Roadrunner7671]

I wish I had two votes, cause I want to put one on faust too.   

"All I want for Christmas is an extra vote, an extra vote"

I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about the gk wagon, but I always have these thoughts about pretty much any wagon anyways, so I'm ignoring those thoughts for now.

Faust is a bad day one lynch target. If he is town, the Mafia will kill him night one.

And I agree with you about gkreig.

[2.71828.....]

I wish I had two votes, cause I want to put one on faust too.   

"All I want for Christmas is an extra vote, an extra vote"

I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about the gk wagon, but I always have these thoughts about pretty much any wagon anyways, so I'm ignoring those thoughts for now.

Faust is a bad day one lynch target. If he is town, the Mafia will kill him night one.

And I agree with you about gkreig.

this is not correct and can lead to all sorts of bad stuff happening.  If you know what the mafia will do, then you are one.

vote: roadrunner

[iguanaiguana]

I wish I had two votes, cause I want to put one on faust too.   

"All I want for Christmas is an extra vote, an extra vote"

I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about the gk wagon, but I always have these thoughts about pretty much any wagon anyways, so I'm ignoring those thoughts for now.

Faust is a bad day one lynch target. If he is town, the Mafia will kill him night one.

And I agree with you about gkreig.

this is not correct and can lead to all sorts of bad stuff happening.  If you know what the mafia will do, then you are one.

vote: roadrunner

I will sheep that all day long:

Vote: Roadrunner

[Roadrunner7671]

Well, this is not going well for me. I feel the need to explain myself, even though it ruins my plan.

By saying that the Mafia would kill faust, I made it so that they wouldn't, therefore we would think faust was Mafia.

And I think y'all just want to lynch me because I'm not 'contributing' anything. But at least I am active! I am cooperative, eager and happy to be alive.

[faust]

Or, well, you got lynched after someone accused you of not being crazy enough and you reacting with a self-vote. maybe it's not the same.

The new kids are voting me for being crazy and the old guard is voting me for not being crazy enough. And you guys wonder why I'm always ignoring status quo...

My particular role makes this game particularly tough for me. I have a soft post restriction if you haven't noticed. Also self voting would be extremely detrimental for town so you won't be seeing that here. I'm basically playing from timeout.

Vote: pingpongsam

[faust]

I don't see any post restriction role in the setup. This seems like your typical pingpongsam fakeclaim.

[faust]

As much as I hate leaving the gkrieg wagon when it's finally going off... unless pps has a pretty good explanation here, I like my new vote a lot.

[faust]

Side note: the iguana should be more focused on scumhunting and less on lynching RR. Though I believe this is a town trait.

[Roadrunner7671]

Side note: the iguana should be more focused on scumhunting and less on lynching RR. Though I believe this is a town trait.

He's out for me!
Mark my words...

[2.71828.....]

I don't see any post restriction role in the setup. This seems like your typical pingpongsam fakeclaim.

good point. 

PPS, what is your restriction?  Or can you not tell us that?  "Post Restriction" as defined by mafiascum is a role modifier, and (in my opinion) should be listed with all the other modifiers that are in the setup post like compulsive, hated, or weak.

[2.71828.....]

Side note: the iguana should be more focused on scumhunting and less on lynching RR. Though I believe this is a town trait.

He's out for me!
Mark my words...

yes, everyone is out to get you and you are in trouble and things aren't going well for you if two people vote you back to back.

[Roadrunner7671]

Side note: the iguana should be more focused on scumhunting and less on lynching RR. Though I believe this is a town trait.

He's out for me!
Mark my words...

yes, everyone is out to get you and you are in trouble and things aren't going well for you if two people vote you back to back.

Well, at least you believe me. Thanks for being a bro.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.6

WW (1): Xerxes
Hydrad (1): RR
SS (2): ashersky, WW
gkrieg (2): Ampharos, silverspawn
PPS (2): gkrieg13, faust
Roadrunner (2): 2.7, iguanaiguana

Not Voting (4): hydrad, PPS, EgorK, Jimmmmm

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day1 will end Thursday, November 5 at 8:30 pm forum time

[iguanaiguana]

Lol

vote: pps

[EgorK]

Ok, I'll go recheck all roles now

[EgorK]

Vote: pps

[pingpongsam]

I don't see any post restriction role in the setup. This seems like your typical pingpongsam fakeclaim.

good point. 

PPS, what is your restriction?  Or can you not tell us that?  "Post Restriction" as defined by mafiascum is a role modifier, and (in my opinion) should be listed with all the other modifiers that are in the setup post like compulsive, hated, or weak.

For D1 I can only respond to people who are directly addressing me. I cannot for the life of me see why I would make this up.

[silverspawn]

Well - yeah, I could see PPS trying to fabricate a fakeclaim without reading the setup thoroughly

I could also see him doing it as town though. But let's pretend for a moment that lying!PPS -> scum!PPS

Can't we just confirm with the mod that posting restrictions aren't part of the game? Given that PPS already claimed, it'll put yuma in a bit of a tough position, but eh. Happens if you mod games. Asking won't hurt.

Can there be posting restrictions in this game?

[yuma]

All I can say is what I have said before:

Each player will receive a role from the list below. Each players' role will be modified by two role modifiers listed below. Some roles generally thought of as roles can or will be used as modifiers. Some modifiers that are generally thought of as modifiers can or will be used as roles.

[silverspawn]

ah well. was worth a try.

if we take the setup literally, then a posting restrction can't be part of the game (unless it's one of the roles which I don't know yet, I haven't looked up each one, but otherwise it doesn't appear in the list).

so vote: PPS

[silverspawn]

PPS, how do you explain that your role doesn't appear in the setup?

[gkrieg13]

Would a day mailman be this posting restriction?

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.7

WW (1): Xerxes
Hydrad (1): RR
SS (2): ashersky, WW
gkrieg (1): Ampharos
PPS (5): gkrieg13, faust, iguanaiguana, EgorK, silverspawn
Roadrunner (1): 2.7

Not Voting (3): hydrad, PPS, Jimmmmm

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day1 will end Thursday, November 5 at 8:30 pm forum time

[silverspawn]

Would a day mailman be this posting restriction?

Definite no - mailman means the ability to send messages in addition to posting normally. It doesn't say anything about restricted posting. A day mailman would be able to send messages during the day in addition to normal posting.

[pingpongsam]

PPS, how do you explain that your role doesn't appear in the setup?

It does although I shan't claim it yet. Just know that addressing me and then me responding places your name on a list of mine. I just double checked and my understanding is that this limits my interaction to just those persons. I have sent a PM for clarification since maybe I misunderstand it.

[pingpongsam]

Turns out I completely misunderstood my role(s). None of it works like I thought it did at all.
I feel pretty stupid about it, too.

[silverspawn]

Turns out I completely misunderstood my role(s). None of it works like I thought it did at all.
I feel pretty stupid about it, too.

mh.

[pingpongsam]

It's not the first time maybe not even the second...

[Witherweaver]

...

[Witherweaver]

People who are "too useful to lynch D1"
WW

<3

[Witherweaver]

I don't really know how to take the PPS thing.  He has, of course, done this exact thing as town.  For whatever that's worth.  I don't think I'd go for him Day 1.

I'm not 100% caught up; this weekend has been busy and this upcoming week will be, too.

[ashersky]

I've poured over the list and nothing sticks out to me as a role or modifier that would result in the misunderstanding that PPS claims to have had.

I was thinking something Sensor related?  Or possibly something activated.  But none of it works in context.

Thing is, what's the scum motivation for this?  The "too dumb to be scum" trope doesn't work for PPS, because we all know him too well (except for the newbies).

I will say, this puts him in the "okay to lynch" pile.  Given everyone gets roles, lynching someone who doesn't understand his own role isn't the worst thing ever.  Better than lynching someone who actually knows how to use his role.

[faust]

I don't even.

So three possible scenarios:

Scenario A: A scum's gambit
scum!PPS wants to be crazy D1 and decides to fakeclaim. We all know that scum!PPS loves a good fakeclaim. Here's the thing - this is a really bad fakeclaim, and anyone who read the setup would have figured that out, and I don't believe a whole scumteam does not read the setup and does not realize this... one person maybe. So this scenario mainly works if PPS is scum alone. Which, uh, we don't even know exists.

Scenario B: Reaction fishing
town!PPS decides to fake some stuff and get reactions to evaluate them. Not unheard of. But this absolutely does not fit with his recent posts... if this was fake, he wouldn't go all "I misread that and am sorry"... except if he's still playing his part, but it doesn't seem like a path you would go when looking for reactions.

Scenario C: The misunderstanding
any-alignment!PPS misreads his role PM and thinks it works as a posting restriction when in fact it doesn't. I assume that can only be the case if he has one of the newly-designed roles, as PPS is a regular enough player to know all the standard stuff and I don't see how one could even misunderstand it like that.

Every one of these scenarios is pretty unlikely, but I think I believe C for now. Which means this doesn't say anything about PPS's alignment. Which means I go back to voting for scummy people.

Vote: gkrieg

[silverspawn]

I actually am reading up on every role I don't know right now. it's fun.

Can someone explain me why 'alien' and 'JK' are both listed? aren't they the same thing? mafia wiki redirects alien to JK.

[faust]

I actually am reading up on every role I don't know right now. it's fun.

Can someone explain me why 'alien' and 'JK' are both listed? aren't they the same thing? mafia wiki redirects alien to JK.

Alien is also referring to an alignment, if mafia and Werewolves does not suffice. Also, if you read the Jailkeeper article, you'd find that Alien is a JK variant. Basically a rolestopping JK.

[silverspawn]

makes sense

so... PPS never actually said that his new role doesn't have a posting restriction. He just said that he misunderstood it.

But I'm fine with not lynching him. gkrieg is still good, I found his reaction to pressure, well, scummy for not being towny, basically. I often do get town vibes from people if they are under pressure.

vote: gkrieg

[gkrieg13]

unvote  How was my reaction not towny?

[Witherweaver]

unvote  How was my reaction not towny?

Why'd you unvote?

[faust]

Turns out I completely misunderstood my role(s). None of it works like I thought it did at all.
I feel pretty stupid about it, too.

This post does not directly address anyone though, so if it's a posting restriction, it's not the one he claimed. And if he has another posting restriction he wasn't aware of, I'd be very surprised if he hasn't broken it already.

[faust]

I also don't feel great about ash here. Not gkrieg territory in terms of scumminess, but also a valid lynch target.

[faust]

makes sense

so... PPS never actually said that his new role doesn't have a posting restriction. He just said that he misunderstood it.

But I'm fine with not lynching him. gkrieg is still good, I found his reaction to pressure, well, scummy for not being towny, basically. I often do get town vibes from people if they are under pressure.

vote: gkrieg

What are you, a pony or a sheep?

[iguanaiguana]

ummm........

Vote: Gkrieg

[faust]

I should just not post reads at all. It will be your emergence from your self-imposed immaturity.

[Witherweaver]

I should just not post reads at all. It will be your emergence from your self-imposed immaturity.

Huh?

[faust]

I should just not post reads at all. It will be your emergence from your self-imposed immaturity.

Huh?

Kant.

[Witherweaver]

I should just not post reads at all. It will be your emergence from your self-imposed immaturity.

Huh?

Kant.

I Kant even.

[iguanaiguana]

U tlkn 2 me?

[faust]

It's not a great translation anyway, but the best I could find on short notice.

[faust]

U tlkn 2 me?

To all of you. All the sheepy sheep on f.ds mafia.

[iguanaiguana]

I have found it annoying how you keep voicing things that I'm thinking before I get a chance to do it myself : )

[silverspawn]

What are you, a pony or a sheep?

a pony

[Roadrunner7671]

I have been lurking for long enough.

Two people want to kill me, so I will make an inaccurate read list in hopes that it will make them love me again.

Here we go!

Witherweaver: He seems towny to me!
Silverspawn: He feels towny I guess, but if I had to lynch a towny person, I would totally go for him.
Faust: As the old saying goes, Faust is the boss.
Hydrad: Has he even talked? I guess innocent until proven guilty, so let's go with a null read.
Gkreig: Town.
Amphoros: Seems genuine. We should keep him around for now. Null read, but leaning towards town.
2.7: He wants to lynch me again, even though I am acting the same as the game where I flipped town. Oh well. He is frustrating, I would be sort of willing to lynch him, but I am getting more towny vibes.
Xerxes: He posted like once. Fun! Null read.
PPS: Now that PPS has re-read his PM, we can hear from him better. I think he could be scum though...
Roadrunner: Roadrunner tries to hard and is going to drag the town into an abyss if he plays badly. However, he is town, and we should keep him around.
EgorK: Null read.
Iguanaiguana: Oh, boy. He is really ruthless, especially for a new player. I hope he isn't Mafia, but he could be. He hasn't really been helping the town until recently, he has just been trying to kill me.
Jimmmmm: We had some small talk, I think he's a pretty null dude.
Ashersky: He seems more town this game, but he is quite the actor. I could go either way if more evidence was presented.

There you have it!

[Witherweaver]

So everyone is town or null?

[silverspawn]

silverspawn: He feels towny I guess, but if I had to lynch a towny person, I would totally go for him.

ah. charming.

[silverspawn]

that said, roadrunner is obv!town with this list.

[Witherweaver]

Everything is obvious when you already know it.

Vote: Silverspawn

[faust]

Everything is obvious when you already know it.

Vote: Silverspawn

The well-ordering theorem isn't.

[Roadrunner7671]

that said, roadrunner is obv!town with this list.

Wait...why?

[2.71828.....]

I don't really know how to take the PPS thing.  He has, of course, done this exact thing as town.  For whatever that's worth.  I don't think I'd go for him Day 1.

I agree with this.

[gkrieg13]

faust should vote for himself and see if everyone else follows him. 

[Roadrunner7671]

faust should vote for himself and see if everyone else follows him.

I would








not

[XerxesPraelor]

And I'm done with the majority of the work, so I'll catch up tonight and make some posts.

[silverspawn]

that said, roadrunner is obv!town with this list.

Wait...why?

because it's so thoroughly and authentically noob-town-like that it'd be impossible for scum to fabricate.

[Roadrunner7671]

that said, roadrunner is obv!town with this list.

Wait...why?

noob-town-like

I cri everytime

[silverspawn]

that said, roadrunner is obv!town with this list.

Wait...why?

noob-town-like

I cri everytime

not a bad thing!

[silverspawn]

that is of course being nooby, not that you cry. That would be a very bad thing. we don't want people to cry because of f.ds stuff.

[silverspawn]

language is a funny thing.

[iguanaiguana]

that is of course being nooby, not that you cry. That would be a very bad thing. we don't want people to cry because of f.ds stuff.

Scum with a heart of gold.

[silverspawn]

Scum with a heart of gold.

thanks

[silverspawn]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

[Roadrunner7671]

that is of course being nooby, not that you cry. That would be a very bad thing. we don't want people to cry because of f.ds stuff.

The thing is though, I'm not sure if I'm still a 'noob.' Couldn't I be faking this?
PPE

[Roadrunner7671]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

You are suspicious.

[gkrieg13]

that is of course being nooby, not that you cry. That would be a very bad thing. we don't want people to cry because of f.ds stuff.

The thing is though, I'm not sure if I'm still a 'noob.' Couldn't I be faking this?
PPE

I think you're a noob until we see you in a scum role.

PPE

[Roadrunner7671]

that is of course being nooby, not that you cry. That would be a very bad thing. we don't want people to cry because of f.ds stuff.

The thing is though, I'm not sure if I'm still a 'noob.' Couldn't I be faking this?
PPE

I think you're a noob until we see you in a scum role.

PPE

I'm never going to have a scum role!

Remember how that worked out for Morgrim?

[gkrieg13]

that is of course being nooby, not that you cry. That would be a very bad thing. we don't want people to cry because of f.ds stuff.

The thing is though, I'm not sure if I'm still a 'noob.' Couldn't I be faking this?
PPE

I think you're a noob until we see you in a scum role.

PPE

I'm never going to have a scum role!

Remember how that worked out for Morgrim?

I don't actually

[silverspawn]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

You are suspicious.

everyone is suspicious, except the one that is yourself; which is I in my case and you in your case.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.8

WW (1): Xerxes
Hydrad (1): RR
SS (2): ashersky, WW
gkrieg (4): Ampharos, faust, silverspawn, iguanaiguana
PPS (1): EgorK
Roadrunner (1): 2.7

Not Voting (4): hydrad, PPS, Jimmmmm, gkrieg

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day1 will end Thursday, November 5 at 8:30 pm forum time

[Roadrunner7671]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

You are suspicious.

everyone is suspicious, except the one that is yourself; which is I in my case and you in your case.

If I'm not suspicious, isn't it suspicious that 2.7 is voting for me?

[2.71828.....]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

You are suspicious.

everyone is suspicious, except the one that is yourself; which is I in my case and you in your case.

If I'm not suspicious, isn't it suspicious that 2.7 is voting for me?

Because you were doing stuff that annoyed me and made me want to vote for you.  I am also pretty sure you are town, so I guess that has run its course.  Let's change things up a bit.

vote: Hydrad for reasons

[Hydrad]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

You are suspicious.

everyone is suspicious, except the one that is yourself; which is I in my case and you in your case.

If I'm not suspicious, isn't it suspicious that 2.7 is voting for me?

Because you were doing stuff that annoyed me and made me want to vote for you.  I am also pretty sure you are town, so I guess that has run its course.  Let's change things up a bit.

vote: Hydrad for reasons

oh fun! what kinda reasons!

also rr still town to me imo

[faust]

that is of course being nooby, not that you cry. That would be a very bad thing. we don't want people to cry because of f.ds stuff.

The thing is though, I'm not sure if I'm still a 'noob.' Couldn't I be faking this?
PPE

Why do you want to convince us that you're scum?

[Witherweaver]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

This is exactly what scum wants; to take apart arguments rhetorically.  I have a legit scumread on you because I think you're scum.  If I'm right, you're going to argue you're not, and if I'm wrong, you're not going to find my position very valid. 

But anyway, the first thing was that your entry into the game seemed like you wanted to appear to be doing stuff, but with little actual stuff.  Specifically, the post about whether or not to discuss EgorK's claim.  It's an easy an inconsequential thing to appear active on.  Plus, your immediate assignment  of certain town to Roadrunner.  Real town is never certain.  Scum, however, takes note to take strong stands as to not appear hedgey and actually does know whether or not the player is town.  The result is that "probably town" slips to "definitely town". I think there were a couple of other things.

It's also weird that you would be asking this; it looks like only me and Ash are voting for you, and I think Ash's was RVS.

[XerxesPraelor]

Not too bad. I'll be out for most of the day though, so won't really be around. Yourself?

The Dominon Forum makes up most of my life. I will constantly be spamming the chat with questions, unvotes, complaints and defenses for myself.

It'll be a good game.

This post is towny.

[pingpongsam]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

This is exactly what scum wants; to take apart arguments rhetorically.  I have a legit scumread on you because I think you're scum.  If I'm right, you're going to argue you're not, and if I'm wrong, you're not going to find my position very valid. 

But anyway, the first thing was that your entry into the game seemed like you wanted to appear to be doing stuff, but with little actual stuff.  Specifically, the post about whether or not to discuss EgorK's claim.  It's an easy an inconsequential thing to appear active on.  Plus, your immediate assignment  of certain town to Roadrunner.  Real town is never certain.  Scum, however, takes note to take strong stands as to not appear hedgey and actually does know whether or not the player is town.  The result is that "probably town" slips to "definitely town". I think there were a couple of other things.

It's also weird that you would be asking this; it looks like only me and Ash are voting for you, and I think Ash's was RVS.

I agree with this and will Vote: Silverspawn

[XerxesPraelor]

ww gives off a mildly towny vibe and is extremely active
egorK's claim seems genuine - from me, I'd be suspicious, but random fake-claiming isn't his style
I don't see anything scummy about silverspawn, gkrieg, e. I don't get those votes.
Roadrunner being sheepy is towny for a new player.
Faust is making sense theory-wise - pass for today and probably tomorrow.
Iguanaiguana is scummy for selfconsciousness
PPS's thing is weird - I think it's mildly scummy, but not very. Posting restrictions are some of the best roles for mafia to fake claim.
Roadrunner continues to be town.

Won't lynch:
Roadrunner
ww
EgorK
Faust

Want to lynch:
iguanaiguana

Willing to lynch:
everyone else

[XerxesPraelor]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

This is exactly what scum wants; to take apart arguments rhetorically.  I have a legit scumread on you because I think you're scum.  If I'm right, you're going to argue you're not, and if I'm wrong, you're not going to find my position very valid.

I haven't read the main content of the post, but argument is how this game works. If you say your reasons he's scum, and he is, there won't be any good counterarguments, and if he isn't, your reasons won't be very good. This is how we make progress, guys.

[Roadrunner7671]

that is of course being nooby, not that you cry. That would be a very bad thing. we don't want people to cry because of f.ds stuff.

The thing is though, I'm not sure if I'm still a 'noob.' Couldn't I be faking this?
PPE

Why do you want to convince us that you're scum?

I don't want you to just brush off someone. If you do that to someone who is scum, that would be bad news. I am just making sure you have all your bases covered.

[ashersky]

I've got a good feeling on WW -- he's probably town.  (If he's alive on D3 or later, he's scum.)

I'm good with my vote -- it's not RVS.

XP reads scummy, but he always does.

[iguanaiguana]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

...Plus, your immediate assignment  of certain town to Roadrunner.  Real town is never certain.  Scum, however, takes note to take strong stands as to not appear hedgey and actually does know whether or not the player is town.  The result is that "probably town" slips to "definitely town"....

According to this logic, basically half of this game is on a scum team with Roadrunner, because everyone is just running around spouting out that he must be town, couldn't possibly be scum.

And for the record, I absolutely believe that half of the people in this game are on a scum team with Roadrunner. It is my strongest suspicion so far.

[silverspawn]

It's also weird that you would be asking this; it looks like only me and Ash are voting for you, and I think Ash's was RVS.

It's not weird. Defenses are pro town, regardless of the amount of pressure. I don't want to post a reads list, so I did it as a way to do useful stuff.

Real town is never certain.  Scum, however, takes note to take strong stands as to not appear hedgey and actually does know whether or not the player is town.  The result is that "probably town" slips to "definitely town". I think there were a couple of other things.

I never white-knight as scum. It's not worth it. you prevent a mislynch and as a return get scrutiny. As scum, I'd be more likely to do the opposite.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

...Plus, your immediate assignment  of certain town to Roadrunner.  Real town is never certain.  Scum, however, takes note to take strong stands as to not appear hedgey and actually does know whether or not the player is town.  The result is that "probably town" slips to "definitely town"....

According to this logic, basically half of this game is on a scum team with Roadrunner, because everyone is just running around spouting out that he must be town, couldn't possibly be scum.

And for the record, I absolutely believe that half of the people in this game are on a scum team with Roadrunner. It is my strongest suspicion so far.

It's not just having town reads, it's exaggerating town reads.  And scum!Silver makes RR more likely town, not more likely scum. 

[silverspawn]

This is exactly what scum wants; to take apart arguments rhetorically.  I have a legit scumread on you because I think you're scum.  If I'm right, you're going to argue you're not, and if I'm wrong, you're not going to find my position very valid.

eh... this doesn't really make sense. You're arguing against the concept of cases + defenses

And I have also found cases on be to be good before, so the last part isn't even true.

[Witherweaver]

I don't think cases are good, generally. 

[silverspawn]

I don't think cases are good, generally.

Well, that's interesting and then - and legit -, but it's a theoretical disagreement, which means that drawing conclusions about my alignment out of it is illogical. Surely you agree.

[Ampharos]

What I see here is silver causing a lot of conversation about nothing, when it's all boiled down to it.  That's rarely, if ever a good thing for town.

[silverspawn]

What I see here is silver causing a lot of conversation about nothing, when it's all boiled down to it.  That's rarely, if ever a good thing for town.

I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. This conversation isn't about nothing. We're discussing scum reads on someone; that's productive. Arguing about a why someone is or is not of a certain alignment is about the most productive thing you can talk about in mafia.

I'd agree that the theory talk - which witherweaver started - is less good.

[Witherweaver]

What I see here is silver causing a lot of conversation about nothing, when it's all boiled down to it.  That's rarely, if ever a good thing for town.

I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. This conversation isn't about nothing. We're discussing scum reads on someone; that's productive. Arguing about a why someone is or is not of a certain alignment is about the most productive thing you can talk about in mafia.

I'd agree that the theory talk - which witherweaver started - is less good.

Seriously?

[iguanaiguana]

I think my main reason for hanging on to the Gkrieg vote is how weak his defense of himself seemed, and how little he seemed to care about it afterward. Maybe he's town trying to be nonchalant so that people don't get more scummy vibes from him, but maybe he's scum just hoping that everyone forgets about his early bad play.

He's also contributing a lot of one-liners and banter and doesn't really seem to be scum-hunting at all. Is that normal for Gkrieg?

[silverspawn]

Seriously?

... yes?

[Witherweaver]

I think my main reason for hanging on to the Gkrieg vote is how weak his defense of himself seemed, and how little he seemed to care about it afterward. Maybe he's town trying to be nonchalant so that people don't get more scummy vibes from him, but maybe he's scum just hoping that everyone forgets about his early bad play.

He's also contributing a lot of one-liners and banter and doesn't really seem to be scum-hunting at all. Is that normal for Gkrieg?

His unvoting when pressured is scummy, too.

[Roadrunner7671]

I think my main reason for hanging on to the Gkrieg vote is how weak his defense of himself seemed, and how little he seemed to care about it afterward. Maybe he's town trying to be nonchalant so that people don't get more scummy vibes from him, but maybe he's scum just hoping that everyone forgets about his early bad play.

He's also contributing a lot of one-liners and banter and doesn't really seem to be scum-hunting at all. Is that normal for Gkrieg?

Don't I do that too?

[iguanaiguana]

I think my main reason for hanging on to the Gkrieg vote is how weak his defense of himself seemed, and how little he seemed to care about it afterward. Maybe he's town trying to be nonchalant so that people don't get more scummy vibes from him, but maybe he's scum just hoping that everyone forgets about his early bad play.

He's also contributing a lot of one-liners and banter and doesn't really seem to be scum-hunting at all. Is that normal for Gkrieg?

Don't I do that too?

Yup, but I think we've already established that you do things a little differently than the rest of us : P

[Roadrunner7671]

Yay! Iguanaiguana doesn't want to kill me now!

I feel safe now, so can we go scum-hunting?

[Ampharos]

I think my main reason for hanging on to the Gkrieg vote is how weak his defense of himself seemed, and how little he seemed to care about it afterward. Maybe he's town trying to be nonchalant so that people don't get more scummy vibes from him, but maybe he's scum just hoping that everyone forgets about his early bad play.

He's also contributing a lot of one-liners and banter and doesn't really seem to be scum-hunting at all. Is that normal for Gkrieg?

This is why I'm holding mine as well.

I think my main reason for hanging on to the Gkrieg vote is how weak his defense of himself seemed, and how little he seemed to care about it afterward. Maybe he's town trying to be nonchalant so that people don't get more scummy vibes from him, but maybe he's scum just hoping that everyone forgets about his early bad play.

He's also contributing a lot of one-liners and banter and doesn't really seem to be scum-hunting at all. Is that normal for Gkrieg?

Don't I do that too?

This, combined with the "couldn't I be faking this?" question from earlier, while technically legit questions, are making me wonder why you're asking them.  Town typically wants the pressure on, and you've now tried to deflect it off silver and gk, two of the biggest pressure receivers so far. 

[iguanaiguana]

Yay! Iguanaiguana doesn't want to kill me now!

I feel safe now, so can we go scum-hunting?

I want to address something here.

In every game RR has played so far, people are just giving him a town pass from day one and it concerns me. RR's meta seems to be "confirmed innocent child," and I think that when he does end up being scum it could really come around to bite us in the butt.  Especially if RR does the sensible thing and acts basically the same as town!RR in the first scum game he gets. So that's why I've been gunning for RR and putting pressure on him. It's not so much that I want him out of the game, as that I'd like to see the meta around how we interact with RR changed, so that he's not given special treatment.

I realize that by trying to change the meta in the other direction, I ended up giving him a lot of unwarranted special treatment also and I apologize for that.

I also still think he could totally be scum.

[silverspawn]

Yay! Iguanaiguana doesn't want to kill me now!

I feel safe now, so can we go scum-hunting?

I want to address something here.

In every game RR has played so far, people are just giving him a town pass from day one and it concerns me. RR's meta seems to be "confirmed innocent child," and I think that when he does end up being scum it could really come around to bite us in the butt.  Especially if RR does the sensible thing and acts basically the same as town!RR in the first scum game he gets. So that's why I've been gunning for RR and putting pressure on him. It's not so much that I want him out of the game, as that I'd like to see the meta around how we interact with RR changed, so that he's not given special treatment.

I realize that by trying to change the meta in the other direction, I ended up giving him a lot of unwarranted special treatment also and I apologize for that.

I also still think he could totally be scum.

Sure, in his first scum game, RR is going to try to imitate his town meta.

I don't think it'll be as convincing as his outing in this game, though. I think it's more likely that he'll be found out rather easily.

If I'm wrong, sure, then it'll be a problem. In the end town reads on him are town reads just like any other ones. Town reads always have the risk of being incorrect.

[Roadrunner7671]

Lol the first game that I am scum you guys will know and Day One would last about 10 seconds. This isn't something I could recreate.

Sorry in advance to any scum on my team.

PPE

[faust]

What I see here is silver causing a lot of conversation about nothing, when it's all boiled down to it.  That's rarely, if ever a good thing for town.

Conversation is very rarely a bad thing for town.

[XerxesPraelor]

I was obvtown for a while, and then I played my first few scum games, and was lynched day one every time. I think newbie scum players are pretty easy to catch. (and RR hasn't done anything scummy)

[faust]

That is all true... not lynching RR for a long while.

iguana is hard to read... what he does (widening the lynch pool) is a common scum tell, but I think the way he does it is towny. Also, I want to see him play some more, so there's a selfish reason not to lynch him. Also also, gkrieg is the scum.

[iguanaiguana]

That is all true... not lynching RR for a long while.

iguana is hard to read... what he does (widening the lynch pool) is a common scum tell, but I think the way he does it is towny. Also, I want to see him play some more, so there's a selfish reason not to lynch him. Also also, gkrieg is the scum.

You mean widening the lynch pool... like you just did???

I'm just messin man lets lynch gkrieg and get it over with.

[gkrieg13]

His unvoting when pressured is scummy, too.

Faust seems townier to me after the exchange.

I've been leaving a lot of one-liners because I have been busy. 

I should have more time later today to defend myself more.

[faust]

His unvoting when pressured is scummy, too.

Faust seems townier to me after the exchange.

I've been leaving a lot of one-liners because I have been busy. 

I should have more time later today to defend myself more.

Is there a particular reason your post starts with a quote by WW?

[gkrieg13]

His unvoting when pressured is scummy, too.

Faust seems townier to me after the exchange.

I've been leaving a lot of one-liners because I have been busy. 

I should have more time later today to defend myself more.

Is there a particular reason your post starts with a quote by WW?

I unvoted from you.

[EgorK]

that is of course being nooby, not that you cry. That would be a very bad thing. we don't want people to cry because of f.ds stuff.

The thing is though, I'm not sure if I'm still a 'noob.' Couldn't I be faking this?
PPE

Why do you want to convince us that you're scum?

I don't see scum RR saying anything against town reads on him

PPE: 2 pages

[Witherweaver]

His unvoting when pressured is scummy, too.

Faust seems townier to me after the exchange.

I've been leaving a lot of one-liners because I have been busy. 

I should have more time later today to defend myself more.

Is there a particular reason your post starts with a quote by WW?

I was talking about Gkrieg in my post.  When you pressured him for voting you, he unvoted.  When the PPS wagon lost its popularity, he also unvoted. 

[Jimmmmm]

I have some catching up to do after a very full long weekend, hopefully I can get that done today.

[EgorK]

On the other hand what will town player do when he is convinced by arguments provided by other side that someone is not scummy? Should he keep vote because it is townie thing to do?

[EgorK]

I do not know. Gkrieg seems somewhat scummy, but his wagon is going on without any resistance which is scary. Of course it may be that some scum was caught on on his wagon early and now can't unvote without raising suspicion.

[gkrieg13]

Looking at my current wagon:
Ampharos - is new so null
faust - seems towny to me.  The last few times he has tunnelled me like this, he's been town,
silverspawn - His defense of faust's and others' votes on him was scummy.
iguanaiguana - Acts like he knows what he is doing, but he should have already been following two games that I was in.  Still seems like he is trying so town.

I think there has to be scum on my wagon at this point with how many people are following faust and how fast it was growing.

vote: silverspawn

[gkrieg13]

Also what are e's reasons for voting for Hydrad?

[2.71828.....]

Sorry, busy day at work. Will be able to post more when I get home. Including why I an voting for hydrad

[faust]

Looking at my current wagon:
Ampharos - is new so null
faust - seems towny to me.  The last few times he has tunnelled me like this, he's been town,
silverspawn - His defense of faust's and others' votes on him was scummy.
iguanaiguana - Acts like he knows what he is doing, but he should have already been following two games that I was in.  Still seems like he is trying so town.

I think there has to be scum on my wagon at this point with how many people are following faust and how fast it was growing.

vote: silverspawn

If you're going for "too scummy to be scum", you going to have to put in more effort.

[iguanaiguana]

iguanaiguana - Acts like he knows what he is doing, but he should have already been following two games that I was in.  Still seems like he is trying so town.

Well in the one game where I have watched you from beginning to end you were mod-confirmed IC and told by others not to give your reasons for your votes, so yeah, that didn't tell me much about how you normally play....

and in the other game I haven't read everything from the beginning but from what I've read you are virtually confirmed cop, so, kinda the same situation...

Maybe my homework is to go look up what scum!Gkrieg looks like, but the funny thing is that I kinda think I know what scum!Gkrieg looks like from this thread...

Also, I do not know what I am doing.
Also, Ampharos looks really towny to me.

I think there has to be scum on my wagon at this point with how many people are following faust and how fast it was growing.

vote: silverspawn

That's one possibility. And if that is the case, I guess the town will learn a lot when you flip.

But considering that you have the three towniest looking players so far in the game (Ampharos, Faust, me (obviously I look towny to myself)), I'd posit another option: your wagon is stalled at four people because your scum team don't want to get on it.

Either way, we should learn a lot by leaving our votes where they are, no?

[silverspawn]

silverspawn - His defense of faust's and others' votes on him was scummy.

vote: silverspawn

'scummy' is not good enough. How was it scummy?

[faust]

and in the other game I haven't read everything from the beginning but from what I've read you are virtually confirmed cop, so, kinda the same situation...

Talking about ongoing games is prohibited here.

[faust]

silverspawn - His defense of faust's and others' votes on him was scummy.

vote: silverspawn

'scummy' is not good enough. How was it scummy?

What are you hoping to achieve?

[silverspawn]

silverspawn - His defense of faust's and others' votes on him was scummy.

vote: silverspawn

'scummy' is not good enough. How was it scummy?

What are you hoping to achieve?

- sharpening my read on gkrieg based on his answer
- defending myself
- generating discussion

sorted by importance

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.9

WW (1): Xerxes
Hydrad (2): RR, 2.7
SS (4): ashersky, WW, PPS, gkreig
gkrieg (4): Ampharos, faust, silverspawn, iguanaiguana
PPS (1): EgorK

Not Voting (2): hydrad, Jimmmmm

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day1 will end Thursday, November 5 at 8:30 pm forum time

[XerxesPraelor]

Why am I voting ww? Let's vote: PPS for now.

[pingpongsam]

Why am I voting ww? Let's vote: PPS for now.

Why? For the record, I'm fine with either SS or gkrieg. But I do not support a PPS lynch today or at all this game.

[gkrieg13]

makes sense

so... PPS never actually said that his new role doesn't have a posting restriction. He just said that he misunderstood it.

But I'm fine with not lynching him. gkrieg is still good, I found his reaction to pressure, well, scummy for not being towny, basically. I often do get town vibes from people if they are under pressure.

vote: gkrieg

"scummy isn't good enough"

[XerxesPraelor]

Why am I voting ww? Let's vote: PPS for now.

Why? For the record, I'm fine with either SS or gkrieg. But I do not support a PPS lynch today or at all this game.

Your role confusion is slightly scummy, and I don't have a better place for my vote. I'd be happy to be convinced of a better lynch.

[Hydrad]

Vote: PPS

sounds fun!

[2.71828.....]

Ok, partly my fault, but this game is totally running to a frenzied vote at the last minute and a random lynch of one of our candidates (Hydrad).

Everyone knows PPS is town, gkrieg is meh, and no one wants to lynch someone like faust (I don't either).

We don't want to do that.

[2.71828.....]

I am really used to a towny, bubbly Hydrad that is nice and friendly but this game he has been lurky, scummy hydrad.

how my meta is lurking

really?  I never noticed.  I am really just noticing how you lurk as scum like in this game.

Granted, this is a tough D1.  No real theory talk.  EgorK tried to get some going, but I personally didn't like the direction that theory talk was going (claiming stuff and whatever).  Nothing solid to discuss so it is hard to get things rolling.  But when things don't roll, town!Hydrad is just bubbly and friendly.

[2.71828.....]

Why am I voting ww? Let's vote: PPS for now.

Why? For the record, I'm fine with either SS or gkrieg. But I do not support a PPS lynch today or at all this game.

Your role confusion is slightly scummy, and I don't have a better place for my vote. I'd be happy to be convinced of a better lynch.

Hydrad is a better lynch.  PPS being confused about his role here is not scummy

[Hydrad]

I am really used to a towny, bubbly Hydrad that is nice and friendly but this game he has been lurky, scummy hydrad.

how my meta is lurking

really?  I never noticed.  I am really just noticing how you lurk as scum like in this game.

Granted, this is a tough D1.  No real theory talk.  EgorK tried to get some going, but I personally didn't like the direction that theory talk was going (claiming stuff and whatever).  Nothing solid to discuss so it is hard to get things rolling.  But when things don't roll, town!Hydrad is just bubbly and friendly.

Thats pretty accurate I think how I usually play. I guess for some reason I've been having a harder time getting into this game for some reason which is making me lurk a bit more then usual. But I guess for you you don't know if thats the truth for why I'm not as bubbly and friendly this game or if I'm actually scum.

Overall though I like your thinking and you get a slight town read from it. woo.

[EgorK]

Vote: Hydrad

[silverspawn]

"scummy isn't good enough"

policy vote: gkrieg for being blatantly stubborn and refusing to explain his vote

well, except I'm already voting for you for being scummy... now you're both!

[silverspawn]

I don't like PPS as a lynch. The fact that he's voting for me is weird and mildly scummy but it's not enough. The role confusion is mildly towny.

Agree with e on Hydrad.

[silverspawn]

For some reason I get a scum vibe on e for his last posts, even though I agree with everything he said. No idea why.

[Roadrunner7671]

I want to post, but this is going to be a pretty empty post.

I do not want to kill PPS or gkreig. I may kill SS or Hydrad. I like my vote rigjt now.

[silverspawn]

I want to post, but this is going to be a pretty empty post.

I do not want to kill PPS or gkreig. I may kill SS or Hydrad. I like my vote rigjt now.

ah, can you stop saying kill please? mafia kills. town lynches. you're town, therefore you should say 'lynch' or 'vote for'.

[iguanaiguana]

For some reason I get a scum vibe on e for his last posts, even though I agree with everything he said. No idea why.

Maybe because he's 'widening the lynch pool'?

Faust gives me tools, I use them.

PPE: stuff

[Roadrunner7671]

I want to post, but this is going to be a pretty empty post.

I do not want to kill PPS or gkreig. I may kill SS or Hydrad. I like my vote rigjt now.

ah, can you stop saying kill please? mafia kills. town lynches. you're town, therefore you should say 'lynch' or 'vote for'.

Saying 'kills' makes people subconsciously really think about what they're doing. It's a very harsh word. I can try to stop, but are you sure you don't like to hear the word 'kill' because you don't have the stomach for it?

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.10

Hydrad (3): RR, 2.7, Egork
SS (4): ashersky, WW, PPS, gkreig
gkrieg (4): Ampharos, faust, iguanaiguana, silverspawn
PPS (2): Xerxes, Hydrad

Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day1 will end Thursday, November 5 at 8:30 pm forum time

[Jimmmmm]

Vote: gkrieg seems best.

[pingpongsam]

As I said I am fine with either. I'm not seeing too much utility left in continuing the day. RMM is about sorting out what happened at night, anyhow.

Vote: gkrieg

[XerxesPraelor]

Anyone want to explain? I'm actually thinking gkrieg is likely to be town here after his most recent posts.

Also, I think silverspawn makes some good points. vote: hydrad

[XerxesPraelor]

I want to post, but this is going to be a pretty empty post.

I do not want to kill PPS or gkreig. I may kill SS or Hydrad. I like my vote rigjt now.

ah, can you stop saying kill please? mafia kills. town lynches. you're town, therefore you should say 'lynch' or 'vote for'.

Saying 'kills' makes people subconsciously really think about what they're doing. It's a very harsh word. I can try to stop, but are you sure you don't like to hear the word 'kill' because you don't have the stomach for it?

+1 (but this isn't really relevant to the terminology picked, so it'll be confusing to others this way, especially once you are scum)

[pingpongsam]

Anyone want to explain? I'm actually thinking gkrieg is likely to be town here after his most recent posts.

Which posts were these? The one with a few reads on the newer plays and then the expression that there must be scum on his wagon and everyone is sheeping faust? Because, that's the only post with any real substance (which isn't much) since he last said he was going to find more time to defend himself. If anything Xerxes looks like a scum partner running interference.

[Ampharos]

Anyone want to explain? I'm actually thinking gkrieg is likely to be town here after his most recent posts.

Which posts were these? The one with a few reads on the newer plays and then the expression that there must be scum on his wagon and everyone is sheeping faust? Because, that's the only post with any real substance (which isn't much) since he last said he was going to find more time to defend himself. If anything Xerxes looks like a scum partner running interference.

It's a much too dangerous and half-hearted play to run if they're both scum.  I had the same thought and immediately shot it down. 

[pingpongsam]

Anyone want to explain? I'm actually thinking gkrieg is likely to be town here after his most recent posts.

Which posts were these? The one with a few reads on the newer plays and then the expression that there must be scum on his wagon and everyone is sheeping faust? Because, that's the only post with any real substance (which isn't much) since he last said he was going to find more time to defend himself. If anything Xerxes looks like a scum partner running interference.

It's a much too dangerous and half-hearted play to run if they're both scum.  I had the same thought and immediately shot it down.

So, you're saying your a 3rd member of the scum team?

[Ampharos]

Anyone want to explain? I'm actually thinking gkrieg is likely to be town here after his most recent posts.

Which posts were these? The one with a few reads on the newer plays and then the expression that there must be scum on his wagon and everyone is sheeping faust? Because, that's the only post with any real substance (which isn't much) since he last said he was going to find more time to defend himself. If anything Xerxes looks like a scum partner running interference.

It's a much too dangerous and half-hearted play to run if they're both scum.  I had the same thought and immediately shot it down.

So, you're saying your a 3rd member of the scum team?

No, but with all the mud-slinging and finger pointing going on here, you are a candidate.  I'm not feeling it at the moment but you're definitely one to keep an eye on.

[faust]

For some reason I get a scum vibe on e for his last posts, even though I agree with everything he said. No idea why.

I also get that vibe.

[faust]

Anyone want to explain? I'm actually thinking gkrieg is likely to be town here after his most recent posts.

Also, I think silverspawn makes some good points. vote: hydrad

Can you point me to the posts that make you think gkrieg is town?

[faust]

silver and gkrieg are both very solid wagons. I like them. I do not like the movement towards Hydrad; there's nothing there besides lurking, and we can do better than that. PPS is probably town.

Also Hydrad lurks as town. If we really want to lynch someone for lurking I would suggest ashersky, because for him it's really uncharacteristic, and I feel like scum!ash lurks more often.

[XerxesPraelor]

makes sense

so... PPS never actually said that his new role doesn't have a posting restriction. He just said that he misunderstood it.

But I'm fine with not lynching him. gkrieg is still good, I found his reaction to pressure, well, scummy for not being towny, basically. I often do get town vibes from people if they are under pressure.

vote: gkrieg

"scummy isn't good enough"

This post sounds like frustrated town, who feels like they're going to be lynched and any argument they put up will be ignored.

And can someone point out what silverspawn did that was scummy? I don't see that either.

[pingpongsam]

Anyone want to explain? I'm actually thinking gkrieg is likely to be town here after his most recent posts.

Which posts were these? The one with a few reads on the newer plays and then the expression that there must be scum on his wagon and everyone is sheeping faust? Because, that's the only post with any real substance (which isn't much) since he last said he was going to find more time to defend himself. If anything Xerxes looks like a scum partner running interference.

It's a much too dangerous and half-hearted play to run if they're both scum.  I had the same thought and immediately shot it down.

So, you're saying your a 3rd member of the scum team?

No, but with all the mud-slinging and finger pointing going on here, you are a candidate.  I'm not feeling it at the moment but you're definitely one to keep an eye on.

Nah, my play is much too dangerous and halflight-hearted to be scum. It's requisite for me to call a scumteam on D1.

[faust]

This post sounds like frustrated town, who feels like they're going to be lynched and any argument they put up will be ignored.

Any reason why this sentence doesn't work if I replace "town" by "scum"?

[faust]

And can someone point out what silverspawn did that was scummy? I don't see that either.

Main thing for me is he reacted to pressure in a weird way. I don't think I have ever seen silver going all "I demand you tell me your reasons!", and think that's more likely to come from scum. Also the initial reaction to Egor's claim was scummish.

[XerxesPraelor]

This post sounds like frustrated town, who feels like they're going to be lynched and any argument they put up will be ignored.

Any reason why this sentence doesn't work if I replace "town" by "scum"?

Because scum realizes their own arguments for themselves are necessarily wrong, and so doesn't feel as aggrieved when they don't work.

[XerxesPraelor]

And can someone point out what silverspawn did that was scummy? I don't see that either.

Main thing for me is he reacted to pressure in a weird way. I don't think I have ever seen silver going all "I demand you tell me your reasons!", and think that's more likely to come from scum. Also the initial reaction to Egor's claim was scummish.

Is that a tone thing? I think town asks for reasons a lot. I mean, that's one of the easiest ways to get reads.

[ashersky]

The Jimmmmm and PPS votes put gkrieg to L-2, btw.

I don't see what others are seeing about gkrieg.  I think he's decidedly null so far.  I think SS is by far the scummiest player so far today.  I could also see faust being scum, given his lack of deductive reasoning.

So I guess I'd move my vote to faust, if that was going to happen.  Otherwise, I still think SS is the way to go.

There's just been very little else of interest.

[faust]

And can someone point out what silverspawn did that was scummy? I don't see that either.

Main thing for me is he reacted to pressure in a weird way. I don't think I have ever seen silver going all "I demand you tell me your reasons!", and think that's more likely to come from scum. Also the initial reaction to Egor's claim was scummish.

Is that a tone thing? I think town asks for reasons a lot. I mean, that's one of the easiest ways to get reads.

It's a meta thing and a tone thing, I think.

[faust]

I don't see what others are seeing about gkrieg.  I think he's decidedly null so far.  I think SS is by far the scummiest player so far today.  I could also see faust being scum, given his lack of deductive reasoning.

Hum, hum. Better a lack of deductive reasoning than a lack of posting in general, mister.

Honestly though, I don't know what you expect. It doesn't get any more deductive than my analysis of PPS's claim on D1.

[gkrieg13]

To all of the people sheeping faust: He has a bad history with reading me scum when I am really town.  Look at the last few games we have been in together!

[faust]

To all of the people sheeping faust: He has a bad history with reading me scum when I am really town.  Look at the last few games we have been in together!

...

[Ampharos]

I had to check to make sure Jester was not in this game.

[Roadrunner7671]

Watson, I have cracked the case!

Gkreig, POS and SS are all scum! PPS and SS decided to cut their loses and vote for gkreig! Great scott!
Obviously, I'm probably wrong.

Vote: gkreig
He's at L-1 now
PPE: 2

[gkrieg13]

I really don't know what other defending I can do of myself right now.  Obviously at this point there has to be scum on my wagon.

Ampharos, faust, iguanaiguana, silverspawn, Jimmmmm, PPS, RR

I still have a town read on RR, he seems very towny this game. 
ss still seems the scummiest on my wagon both for position and for reasoning.
I'm not too sure on PPS or Jimmmmmm.
@PPS: I don't know why I'm becoming the policy lynch just because my wagon is the biggest.

[Roadrunner7671]

Unvote thid isn't hammer time.

[iguanaiguana]

The Jimmmmm and PPS votes put gkrieg to L-2, btw.

I don't see what others are seeing about gkrieg.  I think he's decidedly null so far.  I think SS is by far the scummiest player so far today.  I could also see faust being scum, given his lack of deductive reasoning.

So I guess I'd move my vote to faust, if that was going to happen.  Otherwise, I still think SS is the way to go.

There's just been very little else of interest.

Faust as scum is something I've put a lot of thought into. It's very possible. It just doesn't make him a good D1 lynch target.

I really don't like e's trying to make a third lynch target out of Hydrad. There were two wagons: gkrieg and SS, and it makes me feel like he was trying to distract from one of those two wagons by picking an easy player to target and calling him scum. e's addition really makes me feel like he is also scum with either SS or Gkrieg.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.11

Hydrad (3): 2.7, Egork, Xerxes
SS (3): ashersky, WW, gkreig
gkrieg (6): Ampharos, faust, iguanaiguana, silverspawn, Jimmmmm, PPS (L-2)
PPS (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (1): RR

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day1 will end Thursday, November 5 at 8:30 pm forum time

[gkrieg13]

I don't think I'm L-1 because you only have 6 votes there?

[silverspawn]

And can someone point out what silverspawn did that was scummy? I don't see that either.

Main thing for me is he reacted to pressure in a weird way. I don't think I have ever seen silver going all "I demand you tell me your reasons!", and think that's more likely to come from scum. Also the initial reaction to Egor's claim was scummish.

Ironically, you were the main inspiration for that post.

[silverspawn]

I agree that I've never done it before, but I absolutely disagree that it's more likely to come from scum. I'm almost entirely sure that I wouldn't have made that post as scum.

[silverspawn]

Well, with this post, I won't vote for anyone except gkrieg today. I watched ash closely in fanfiction mafia; he doesn't bus, this is exactly the kind of post he did defending his partners in that game, dismissing the case for on real reason.

[silverspawn]

ss still seems the scummiest on my wagon both for position and for reasoning.

Man, you don't even seem to believe this yourself.

[silverspawn]

@gkrieg: I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why you think I'm scum. An actual reason, not a vague categorical term such as 'position' or 'reasoning'

[yuma]

I don't think I'm L-1 because you only have 6 votes there?

Fixed

[iguanaiguana]

Unvote thid isn't hammer time.

I don't know when you think it is time to put someone at L-1, but we only have 6 or 7 more hours to make a lynch. So unless you want a no-lynch today, L-1 looks good now. I'm talking here as one townie to another here. Hope you can forgive me for doubting you earlier

[pingpongsam]

It's certainly occurred to me that faust may be scum. faust is a strong enough player that his play this day can be read as either. All that said, in my opinion, he has provided the best contributions to the day thus far and is a terrible D1 candidate. Also, I read him more as town than as scum which is a compliment if he is actually scum. I do see the bits about him not being his usual full on town self that may be as much scum tell as we are going to get. Contributing scum are very tough scum to lynch.

[silverspawn]

Unvote thid isn't hammer time.

I don't know when you think it is time to put someone at L-1, but we only have 6 or 7 more hours to make a lynch.

+ one day.

[2.71828.....]

So, right now we are going to do the lazy thing and lynch gkrieg.  Which is regrettably how D1 tends to go around here.

I much prefer someone like hydrad right now.

[silverspawn]

So, right now we are going to do the lazy thing and lynch gkrieg.  Which is regrettably how D1 tends to go around here.

I much prefer someone like hydrad right now.

I think gkrieg has higher chances to be scum than your typical day 1 lynch

[Witherweaver]

I would much rather lynch Silverspawn.

[silverspawn]

I would much rather lynch silverspawn.

that worries me

[XerxesPraelor]

It's certainly occurred to me that faust may be scum. faust is a strong enough player that his play this day can be read as either. All that said, in my opinion, he has provided the best contributions to the day thus far and is a terrible D1 candidate. Also, I read him more as town than as scum which is a compliment if he is actually scum. I do see the bits about him not being his usual full on town self that may be as much scum tell as we are going to get. Contributing scum are very tough scum to lynch.

Yeah I don't think so. When faust makes sense, he's town. This is not an exception.

PPE: Hi, SilverSPawn and withHerWeaver, I'm XerxESP.

[silverspawn]

ah... the pain...

[silverspawn]

I've been correcting quotes for months and no-one ever seemed to notice

[XerxesPraelor]

Hmm, faust's sorta-case on you is interesting. Looks like there's deadline though, so we need a lynch. I guess I have to decide between doing nothing, voting gkrieg, or voting silverspawn very quickly. gkrieg is okay, I think his flip would give some good information either way, but I think he's more likely than not by a bit to flip town. silverspawn is active and pro-town, which makes lynching him unappealable. A PPS lynch would be best I think, but it's not really happening yet. I guess I'll wait a bit, and if at deadline there's no lynch I'll vote gkrieg.

[pingpongsam]

A PPS lynch would be best I think, but it's not really happening yet.

How so? The role mixup is a terrible excuse. what have I done that is scummy? What do you learn from my flip that helps you identify scum the next day?

[iguanaiguana]

Unvote thid isn't hammer time.

I don't know when you think it is time to put someone at L-1, but we only have 6 or 7 more hours to make a lynch.

+ one day.

The worst part about seeing this was realizing that I have to work another two days before the weekend

[iguanaiguana]

A PPS lynch would be best I think, but it's not really happening yet.

How so? The role mixup is a terrible excuse. what have I done that is scummy? What do you learn from my flip that helps you identify scum the next day?

Also yeah he has some real reasons here why lynching him would be bad. I'm actually surprised that his wagon continued to be a thing after he claimed to check his role with the mod.

[Hydrad]

I've been correcting quotes for months and no-one ever seemed to notice

to be fair before you told me I just always assumed that the quotes would be the same thing.

[Hydrad]

Hmm...

I'll go Vote: silverspawn here

[iguanaiguana]

Hmm...

I'll go Vote: silverspawn here

Why?

[silverspawn]

Why?

I was going to ask the same.

[faust]

Faust as scum is something I've put a lot of thought into. It's very possible. It just doesn't make him a good D1 lynch target.

This is so weird. If I'm scum, of course I am a good lynch target.

[faust]

Well, with this post, I won't vote for anyone except gkrieg today. I watched ash closely in fanfiction mafia; he doesn't bus, this is exactly the kind of post he did defending his partners in that game, dismissing the case for on real reason.

How do you feel about voting ashersky instead?

[pingpongsam]

ashersky has and will bus.

[Roadrunner7671]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

[silverspawn]

Well, with this post, I won't vote for anyone except gkrieg today. I watched ash closely in fanfiction mafia; he doesn't bus, this is exactly the kind of post he did defending his partners in that game, dismissing the case for on real reason.

How do you feel about voting ashersky instead?

well, I'm pretty sure ash is almost solely voting for me because of recent things (he pushed my case in every game since then, and I was always town), and I was going to avoid voting him back, but if I could shoot someone right now, he'd easily be my second choice.

[iguanaiguana]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

So you want to be a voteless unlynchable bulletproof treestump?

[gkrieg13]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

Where is your vote?  Why don't you have the stomach to lynch me?

[silverspawn]

ashersky has and will bus.

I'm thinking we don't bus at all. See what happens. I mean, I never bus, so that's normal. But if we as a team never ever bus, it could be interesting.

You may also reread any of his past scum games.

[gkrieg13]

ashersky has and will bus.

I'm thinking we don't bus at all. See what happens. I mean, I never bus, so that's normal. But if we as a team never ever bus, it could be interesting.

You may also reread any of his past scum games.

That would be a reason for him to bus this game....

[faust]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

If you refuse to vote, I will push you're lynch even if you were confirmed town because we can't allow someone playing such a horribly anti-town game to survive until he might lose us the game.

[faust]

ashersky has and will bus.

Do you think ash is town?

[silverspawn]

gkrieg is still the better chocie. his complete incapability to explain his scum read on me, added to the fact that he conveniently jumped on the next biggest wagon, and his attempts to appear ruthless right now in combination with his initial    reservation upon receiving pressure all just add up to him being scum

although if he is scum ash is like 3/4 to be scum too.

[Roadrunner7671]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

If you refuse to vote, I will push you're lynch even if you were confirmed town because we can't allow someone playing such a horribly anti-town game to survive until he might lose us the game.

Oh man, that's pretty hardcore.

Let's rethink this for a few seconds.
PPE 2

[faust]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

If you refuse to vote, I will push you're lynch even if you were confirmed town because we can't allow someone playing such a horribly anti-town game to survive until he might lose us the game.

Sorry.

[silverspawn]

That would be a reason for him to bus this game....

oh, but of course!  the fact that he said he never busses like 8 games ago and has never done it since is a great reason to bus for him this game.

[iguanaiguana]

Faust as scum is something I've put a lot of thought into. It's very possible. It just doesn't make him a good D1 lynch target.

This is so weird. If I'm scum, of course I am a good lynch target.

I think you can guess at my logic here, so why are you trying to make me tease it out publicly?

Ppe 7 wow

[Roadrunner7671]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

If you refuse to vote, I will push you're lynch even if you were confirmed town because we can't allow someone playing such a horribly anti-town game to survive until he might lose us the game.

Sorry.

You're not sorry.

[silverspawn]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

[silverspawn]

Ｉｎｓｔｅａｄ，  ｗｈｙ  ｄｏｎ＇ｔ  ｙｏｕ  ｌｏｏｋ  ａｔ  ｔｈｅｓｅ  ｃｏｏｌ  ｌｅｔｔｅｒｓ？

[Roadrunner7671]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

[Roadrunner7671]

I am scum.

But this post seems a little off to me, maybe I should vote for gkreig?

[gkrieg13]

ss you are demanding things of me that you aren't willing to do yourself.  You haven't told me why you think I'm scummy.

Your vote was 4th on my wagon.  Right in the middle.  That is exactly when scum likes to jump on wagons.  Your reasoning:

meh

vote: gkrieg

makes sense

so... PPS never actually said that his new role doesn't have a posting restriction. He just said that he misunderstood it.

But I'm fine with not lynching him. gkrieg is still good, I found his reaction to pressure, well, scummy for not being towny, basically. I often do get town vibes from people if they are under pressure.

vote: gkrieg

You are saying that I am scummy for not being towny. 

Okay, anyone who has a legit scumread on me - if you tell me your reasons, I can try to explain to you why you are wrong.

This catches me as scummy.  This is not the way town defends themselves. 


This is his reaction to me voting him:

silverspawn - His defense of faust's and others' votes on him was scummy.

vote: silverspawn

'scummy' is not good enough. How was it scummy?

The reason for my response of being scummy is not good enough is because he is asking me to give a reason, when his reason for voting me is that I'm scummy for not being towny.

"scummy isn't good enough"

policy vote: gkrieg for being blatantly stubborn and refusing to explain his vote

well, except I'm already voting for you for being scummy... now you're both!

Now he throws a policy vote on for doing exactly what he did before.

ss still seems the scummiest on my wagon both for position and for reasoning.

Man, you don't even seem to believe this yourself.

Here he is trying to invalidate my read on him again. 


PPE: 12

[2.71828.....]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

I know. It is so hard to read people as scum because you know they are town...since they aren't your partners

[iguanaiguana]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

The point is, there will be much scummier people on your wagon no matter who you vote for. If gkrieg flips town, do you really think that we would be lynching you over Silver, PPS, myself and Faust?

[silverspawn]

@gkrieg: there is a big difference between 'refusing to explain a vote' and 'not explaining a vote'. Plenty of votes are unexplained. No-one ever asked me to explain my vote on you (although I did it anyway...) so saying that I refused to do it is insane.

Everything else you say is based on this misassumption.

[Roadrunner7671]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

I know. It is so hard to read people as scum because you know they are town...since they aren't your partners

You still think I'm scum?

[silverspawn]

Specifically, saying that I am 'not willing to do' this is a blatant lie

[Roadrunner7671]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

The point is, there will be much scummier people on your wagon no matter who you vote for. If gkrieg flips town, do you really think that we would be lynching you over Silver, PPS, myself and Faust?

Oh yeah, you guys would flippin' murder SS 10 seconds into day two.

Vote: SS
PPE

[gkrieg13]

@gkrieg: there is a big difference between 'refusing to explain a vote' and 'not explaining a vote'. Plenty of votes are unexplained. No-one ever asked me to explain my vote on you (although I did it anyway...) so saying that I refused to do it is insane.

Everything else you say is based on this misassumption.

How is everything else in that post based on that misassumption.  You trying to invalidate my reads saying that I don't believe them is scummy and not related at all to you not explaining a vote. 

[faust]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

If you refuse to vote, I will push you're lynch even if you were confirmed town because we can't allow someone playing such a horribly anti-town game to survive until he might lose us the game.

Sorry.

You're not sorry.

Yes, I'm sorry I wrote "you're" when I should have written "your".

[silverspawn]

Alright, defense.

The reason everyone is voting form, as far as I can tell, is the fact that I demanded an explanation from the people who voted for me initially.

This should by all logic be a town tell or at worst null, but since it is apparently not, let me explain why.

As you may or may not know, I have joined every non-blitz non-bastard mafia game since my first, and I like to expand my playstyle & try things.

Requesting more thorough reasoning from others is one of the best things you can do as town, and it's like I said inspired by faust (whom I've called the best player in the past and I have taken inspiration from before, in games where I was town).

I did have the time to think about reactions when I made the post, and thought that someone might or might not call it a scum tell before. Obviously, I didn't predict this kind of reaction. But I would absolutely not do this as scum. In my first scum game, I felt pressured with one vote, WW I think called me out on it, and since then I've always ignored pressure on my entirely as scum, which has been working out pretty good. I dare anyone to find a single instance where I overreact to pressure as scum.

Granted, my last scum game is a pretty long time ago. I really want to draw town recently, and I always do, and it's great. You may also have noticed that I put a lot of effort into my games recently, which {censored because two games are ongoing although I'm dead in them}

Most importantly though, all of this 'case' is just something that I could do as scum. There is absolutely no reason why I couldn't also do it as town. This fact doesn't necessarily  mean the case is bad, but it surely makes it worse on average, and it certainly is bad here.

More reasons not to vote for me

- ash is voting for me. Historically, the people ash wants lynched day 1 are pretty much always town.
- I'll be much more useful for us than gkrieg is. Well, not hard, since gkrieg is scum with like almost 50%, but even still
- gkrieg comes of incredibly weak in our conversation, which is a fairly good metric to find scum
- Everything I've done this game is in the best interest of town
- I really really really don't want to be lynched.

[Roadrunner7671]

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

If you refuse to vote, I will push you're lynch even if you were confirmed town because we can't allow someone playing such a horribly anti-town game to survive until he might lose us the game.

Sorry.

You're not sorry.

Yes, I'm sorry I wrote "you're" when I should have written "your".

I see. Apology accepted.

[faust]

Your vote was 4th on my wagon.  Right in the middle.  That is exactly when scum likes to jump on wagons.

That is a misconception. Scum does not "like" to be middlish on the wagon. Scum likes to be first (because that seems genuine) or - if it's a mislynch wagon - not on the wagon at all. It's just that things often don't work out like that, and then they're forced to jump the wagon to avoid a different lynch.

[faust]

Here he is trying to invalidate my read on him again. 

That's hilarious. You are saying trying to invalidate another player's read on you is scummy? How about this:

I repeat my answer. Have I become the new IG?  Do I always have a tussle with Faust now?

To all of the people sheeping faust: He has a bad history with reading me scum when I am really town.  Look at the last few games we have been in together!

Thanks for outing yourself as scum.

[Roadrunner7671]

Unvote
I'm messed the quote up.
PPE

[silverspawn]

@gkrieg: there is a big difference between 'refusing to explain a vote' and 'not explaining a vote'. Plenty of votes are unexplained. No-one ever asked me to explain my vote on you (although I did it anyway...) so saying that I refused to do it is insane.

Everything else you say is based on this misassumption.

How is everything else in that post based on that misassumption.

well, because you are basing (almost) everything else on that misassumption.

Here:

ss you are demanding things of me that you aren't willing to do yourself.  You haven't told me why you think I'm scummy.

 Your reasoning:

You are saying (...)


This is his reaction to me voting him:

The reason for my response of being scummy is not good enough is because he is asking me to give a reason, when his reason for voting me is that I'm scummy for not being towny.

Now he throws a policy vote on for doing exactly what he did before.

All of those parts are related to your assumption.

There's also a bit of manipulative reasoning in there when you call me out for pushing you which is a direct consequence of you not answering to me for that long.

[faust]

Alright, defense.

The reason everyone is voting form, as far as I can tell, is the fact that I demanded an explanation from the people who voted for me initially.

This should by all logic be a town tell or at worst null, but since it is apparently not, let me explain why.

As you may or may not know, I have joined every non-blitz non-bastard mafia game since my first, and I like to expand my playstyle & try things.

Requesting more thorough reasoning from others is one of the best things you can do as town, and it's like I said inspired by faust (whom I've called the best player in the past and I have taken inspiration from before, in games where I was town).

I did have the time to think about reactions when I made the post, and thought that someone might or might not call it a scum tell before. Obviously, I didn't predict this kind of reaction. But I would absolutely not do this as scum. In my first scum game, I felt pressured with one vote, WW I think called me out on it, and since then I've always ignored pressure on my entirely as scum, which has been working out pretty good. I dare anyone to find a single instance where I overreact to pressure as scum.

Granted, my last scum game is a pretty long time ago. I really want to draw town recently, and I always do, and it's great. You may also have noticed that I put a lot of effort into my games recently, which {censored because two games are ongoing although I'm dead in them}

Most importantly though, all of this 'case' is just something that I could do as scum. There is absolutely no reason why I couldn't also do it as town. This fact doesn't necessarily  mean the case is bad, but it surely makes it worse on average, and it certainly is bad here.

More reasons not to vote for me

- ash is voting for me. Historically, the people ash wants lynched day 1 are pretty much always town.
- I'll be much more useful for us than gkrieg is. Well, not hard, since gkrieg is scum with like almost 50%, but even still
- gkrieg comes of incredibly weak in our conversation, which is a fairly good metric to find scum
- Everything I've done this game is in the best interest of town
- I really really really don't want to be lynched.

Good enough for me.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: gkreig
Sorry for all my voting and unvoting recently.

SS has put up an excellent case.
PPE

[XerxesPraelor]

- ash is voting for me. Historically, the people ash wants lynched day 1 are pretty much always town.

Okay - unvote. (although I'm unvoting from PPS, because he's convinced me)

I guess vote: gkrieg seems like the best option so far (i'm actually thinking about maybe ash...)

[XerxesPraelor]

If the gkrieg wagon never fills up all the way though, I'd be okay switching to silverspawn.

[XerxesPraelor]

We really need a lynch.

[XerxesPraelor]

- ash is voting for me. Historically, the people ash wants lynched day 1 are pretty much always town.

This is the funniest reason ever. I actually think it's valid though.

[XerxesPraelor]

whatever this debate is, you should probably stop it. Obviously, saying that you don't vote because it would make you scummy is infinitely more scummy than voting in any situation.

No, I'm saying I'm not voting because I don't have any solidish scum reads.

I know. It is so hard to read people as scum because you know they are town...since they aren't your partners

You still think I'm scum?

I don't get how anyone could think you scum.

[iguanaiguana]

If the gkrieg wagon never fills up all the way though, I'd be okay switching to silverspawn.

Wasnt that the hammer?

[faust]

Hm... even though gkrieg is most likely getting lynched here (and rightly so), I feel like I should still think about the rest of the players. So reads:

WW - very null as usual
silverspawn - recently towny. Will not lynch today.
faust - me
hydrad - lurkish, not particularly towny. Would lynch if there weren't better options.
gkeirg - scum.
Ampharos - overall pretty null.
2.7 - the slightest of town reads.
Xerxes - still pretty null... also unmemorable, same as Hydrad.
PPS - the whole role thing was towny. Not lynching today.
Roadrunner - his usual self. Will not lynch at least until the other game is over.
EgorK - has claimed. Probably town
iguanaiguana - slight town.
Jimmmmm - lurky again, that's not good.
ash - lurky!ash is scum!ash as I recall, and what he posted wasn't towny either. Scummy, second choice after gkrieg, but with a sympathy bonus because he got lynched a lot lately.

PPE 6

[XerxesPraelor]

Requesting more thorough reasoning from others is one of the best things you can do as town, and it's like I said inspired by faust (whom I've called the best player in the past and I have taken inspiration from before, in games where I was town).

Fully endorsed, both in the asking for reasons is good, and the faust is best player.

PPE 2

[Hydrad]

Hmm...

I'll go Vote: silverspawn here

Why?

hmm it was mainly to get a wagon competing with gkreig there. The only other option was me... and I don't really want to do that.

that being said though usually when I do a competing wagon I'm fine with their lynch and don't have much preference.

This time though I think I'm actually slightly in favor of the gkrieg lynch although I am slightly worried how it seems to be the only option in this day as if that happens I think its usually not scum.

[XerxesPraelor]

If the gkrieg wagon never fills up all the way though, I'd be okay switching to silverspawn.

Wasnt that the hammer?

I think it's L-1. Actually no, I think it was. Well, I hope you guys picked the right guy.

[faust]

Yes, should have been the hammer. I say people please check the vote counts before doing this. I'm fine with the lynch now, but absolutely never do this on later days in RMM.

[faust]

If the gkrieg wagon never fills up all the way though, I'd be okay switching to silverspawn.

Wasnt that the hammer?

I think it's L-1. Actually no, I think it was. Well, I hope you guys picked the right guy.

You picked too. Don't act as though this isn't fully your responsibility.

[Hydrad]

oh well i guess my answer wsn't even needed.

[Hydrad]

glhf everyone!

also I forget if this got answered but if a person flips with a role that isn't on mafia scum are we allowed to find out what it does?

[faust]

These fake hammers are SO ANNOYING. I mean, it hit my scum read here, and noone has any information yet I guess, but in general this is awfully bad play.

[Hydrad]

glhf everyone!

also I forget if this got answered but if a person flips with a role that isn't on mafia scum are we allowed to find out what it does?

nvm already answered

[faust]

gkrieg - any last words?

[Ampharos]

Alright, defense.

The reason everyone is voting form, as far as I can tell, is the fact that I demanded an explanation from the people who voted for me initially.

This should by all logic be a town tell or at worst null, but since it is apparently not, let me explain why.

As you may or may not know, I have joined every non-blitz non-bastard mafia game since my first, and I like to expand my playstyle & try things.

Requesting more thorough reasoning from others is one of the best things you can do as town, and it's like I said inspired by faust (whom I've called the best player in the past and I have taken inspiration from before, in games where I was town).

I did have the time to think about reactions when I made the post, and thought that someone might or might not call it a scum tell before. Obviously, I didn't predict this kind of reaction. But I would absolutely not do this as scum. In my first scum game, I felt pressured with one vote, WW I think called me out on it, and since then I've always ignored pressure on my entirely as scum, which has been working out pretty good. I dare anyone to find a single instance where I overreact to pressure as scum.

Granted, my last scum game is a pretty long time ago. I really want to draw town recently, and I always do, and it's great. You may also have noticed that I put a lot of effort into my games recently, which {censored because two games are ongoing although I'm dead in them}

Most importantly though, all of this 'case' is just something that I could do as scum. There is absolutely no reason why I couldn't also do it as town. This fact doesn't necessarily  mean the case is bad, but it surely makes it worse on average, and it certainly is bad here.

More reasons not to vote for me

- ash is voting for me. Historically, the people ash wants lynched day 1 are pretty much always town.
- I'll be much more useful for us than gkrieg is. Well, not hard, since gkrieg is scum with like almost 50%, but even still
- gkrieg comes of incredibly weak in our conversation, which is a fairly good metric to find scum
- Everything I've done this game is in the best interest of town
- I really really really don't want to be lynched.

On a site where the general thing is to be all loosy-goosy and free spirited (comparatively to my previous experiences), this post reads pretty well and I'm inclined to believe it (for now).

Also, my wife, whose name is Ash, randomly read "ash is voting for me" over my shoulder and said "...frick you Ash".  Just so you know.  I'm sure her highly informed opinion is of critical importance to us all.

[Hydrad]

also towny read on faust now also!

[yuma]

Thread Locked!

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.11

Hydrad (2): 2.7, Egork
SS (4): ashersky, WW, gkreig, Hydrad
gkrieg (8): Ampharos, faust, iguanaiguana, silverspawn, Jimmmmm, PPS, RR, Xerxes

Not Voting (0):

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day1 will end Thursday, November 5 at 8:30 pm forum time


Thread Still Locked!

[yuma]

Day1 End

gkrieg has been lynched. He was a Mafia Voyeuristic Self Watcher.

Night1 Begins Now!

Night Actions are due to the mod via PM within 24 hours of this post. Day2 will begin at some point after 48 hours of this post.

[yuma]

Night Action Deadline has passed. Day2 will begin in approximately 24 hours.

[yuma]

Day2 Start!

silverspawn died during the night. He was a Tracking Compulsive Lover.
2.7 has died during the night. He was a Compulsive Investigative Lover

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (11): Egork, ashersky, WW, Hydrad, Ampharos, faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, PPS, RR, Xerxes

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day1 will end Friday, November 13 at 4:30 pm forum time


Thread Unlocked!

[ashersky]

I have a result.

vote: faust

[Witherweaver]

I have a result.

vote: faust

Huh?

[pingpongsam]

To my neighbor, you know who you are, I got both results. I had previously clarified what the results could be and what they meant so this is not "no result", it is both results. Currently studying the roles to see what that might mean.

[pingpongsam]

I have a result.

vote: faust

Describe the result, meanwhile Vote: ashersky

[XerxesPraelor]

I have a result.

vote: faust

okay - vote: faust You better describe what it is, though.

[EgorK]

Vote: ash

Unless I was roleblocked faust confirmed town

[iguanaiguana]

Day2 Start!

2.7 has died during the night. He was a Compulsive Investigative Lover

Huh, I really thought he was scum.

[iguanaiguana]

I have a result.

vote: faust

Good thing someone else looks really, really scummy!

Vote: Ashersky

[yuma]

Vote Count 2.1

faust: (2) ashersky, Xerxes
ashersky: (3) pingpongsam, EgorK, iguanaiguana


Not Voting (6): WW, Hydrad, Ampharos, faust, Jimmmmm, RR

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day1 will end Friday, November 13 at 4:30 pm forum time

[pingpongsam]

Unless I was roleblocked faust confirmed town

If you were blocked I would expect no result. There is real possibility of incorrect results, though. Bus Driver and Lightning Rod are at least two potential switchers, here.

The main reason I am voting ash is not because I got any results on faust but because I refused to believe there were that many investigative roles that turned up alignment. It looks like there are way moree than I would have believed.

[EgorK]

Unless I was roleblocked faust confirmed town

If you were blocked I would expect no result. There is real possibility of incorrect results, though. Bus Driver and Lightning Rod are at least two potential switchers, here.

The main reason I am voting ash is not because I got any results on faust but because I refused to believe there were that many investigative roles that turned up alignment. It looks like there are way moree than I would have believed.

For now I would only say that roleblock is an option

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: ash

EgorK is way less likely to be scum than you, sorry.

[pingpongsam]

EgorK is way less likely to be scum than you, sorry.

Especially coming straight out of the gate as soon as the thread opened. this is planned but not necessarily scummy. There is more to be revealed for sure. He's just watching the mushroom cloud right now and waiting for the dust to settle.

This is equally likely town!ash as scum!ash.

[iguanaiguana]

EgorK is way less likely to be scum than you, sorry.

Especially coming straight out of the gate as soon as the thread opened. this is planned but not necessarily scummy. There is more to be revealed for sure. He's just watching the mushroom cloud right now and waiting for the dust to settle.

This is equally likely town!ash as scum!ash.

What on earth is the read for town!ash here? Are you also considering everything that happened Day 1?

[XerxesPraelor]

This is equally likely town!ash as scum!ash.

Than why are you voting for him?

[XerxesPraelor]

EgorK is way less likely to be scum than you, sorry.

Especially coming straight out of the gate as soon as the thread opened. this is planned but not necessarily scummy. There is more to be revealed for sure. He's just watching the mushroom cloud right now and waiting for the dust to settle.

This is equally likely town!ash as scum!ash.

What on earth is the read for town!ash here? Are you also considering everything that happened Day 1?

ditto

[pingpongsam]

I've already volunteered why I am voting ash without you having to ask me twice. Please read what I have already posted.

A better question might be why I am still voting ash. And the answer is because at this point it hurts nothing and I do want him to describe the result.

[iguanaiguana]

That said, we should be careful with our votes. We're already at L-2 and a lot of people haven't even chimed in yet. There's no reason to make this a 15 minute long day.

Also, I think it is advantageous for town that we don't talk too much about our roles right now to keep the remaining scum in the dark. If we were in serious doubt about who was scum, it might be a different situation.

[Witherweaver]

I'm not going to vote without more information.  If Faust is scum, he has to be SK/third faction.  There's no way Faust goes after a partner like that.  Or he could be a Traitor, I guess, but I imagine he'd play that a little more carefully. 

[Roadrunner7671]

Faust is probably the Survivor.

Hey guys! I'm alive!

[Witherweaver]

Faust is probably the Survivor.

Hey guys! I'm alive!

.... the Survivor?

[Roadrunner7671]

Faust is probably the Survivor.

Hey guys! I'm alive!

.... the Survivor?

The goal of the game for the Survivor is to be alive when only one faction is left (town, SK, Werewolves, Mafia).

[Witherweaver]

Sigh.

Why are you acting as if you know a Survivor is in the game?

[Roadrunner7671]

Sigh.

Why are you acting as if you know a Survivor is in the game?

Why are you acting like you know a third party is in this game?

[Witherweaver]

Sigh.

Why are you acting as if you know a Survivor is in the game?

Why are you acting like you know a third party is in this game?

I'm not.  But if Faust is scum, he's not Gkrieg's partner, and Gkrieg was Mafia.  So Faust has to be something else.

Alternatively, Ash can be something else claiming a fake result.  Or Ash can be Town with tampered results.  Or Town with fake results, that would be fun.

[faust]

Oh my. So many people with results on me. And I'm still alive!

Vote: ash

[Hydrad]

woo an interesting start!

i believe egork right now. But is ash at L-1?

[faust]

woo an interesting start!

i believe egork right now. But is ash at L-1?

I think he is.

[Roadrunner7671]

Hey! I could hammer ash!

You guys might kill me, but it could be worth it...

I want to hear from Ashersky first though, even though he's total scum.

[faust]

If you need another reason to vote ash, look at this:

- e and silver both flipped investigative roles (partly).
- Egor, PPS and ash are claiming some sort of investigative role.

This is just way too much investigation.

Though I'm confused why anyone would investigate me. Wasn't I super duper obv!town coming out of D1? There are like a bazillion better investigation targets.

[yuma]

Vote Count 2.2

faust: (1) ashersky
ashersky: (5) pingpongsam, EgorK, iguanaiguana, Xerxes, faust (L-1)


Not Voting (5): WW, Hydrad, Ampharos, Jimmmmm, RR

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day1 will end Friday, November 13 at 4:30 pm forum time

[Roadrunner7671]

If you need another reason to vote ash, look at this:

- e and silver both flipped investigative roles (partly).
- Egor, PPS and ash are claiming some sort of investigative role.

This is just way too much investigation.

Though I'm confused why anyone would investigate me. Wasn't I super duper obv!town coming out of D1? There are like a bazillion better investigation targets.

Are you telling me to hammer him?

[faust]

If you need another reason to vote ash, look at this:

- e and silver both flipped investigative roles (partly).
- Egor, PPS and ash are claiming some sort of investigative role.

This is just way too much investigation.

Though I'm confused why anyone would investigate me. Wasn't I super duper obv!town coming out of D1? There are like a bazillion better investigation targets.

Are you telling me to hammer him?

I think we can talk some more...in case ash is somehow misguided town, it might be worth it to hear him out, even though we have to lynch him either way eventually.

[faust]

Yeah, on second thought unvote

Don't want an ash self-hammer.

[Roadrunner7671]

Self-hammer?

And why do people put explanation marks after everything, like 'I'm obv!town?'

[Ampharos]

Self-hammer? 

Never seen it.

Vote: Ash

[faust]

Self-hammer?

And why do people put explanation marks after everything, like 'I'm obv!town?'

Well, ash could vote for himself. You know, maybe he sees that he's going down either way and does not want to give us more time to talk. So he votes himself and ends the day. That would not be great.

The ! is some sort of programming language slang I think. I don't question it; I just do it.

[faust]

Self-hammer? 

Never seen it.

Vote: Ash

I've seen ash self-hammer more than once.

[Ampharos]

Clarification:
Never seen one this early in a day.  Usually late and after hashing it out.  I want the pressure on here, and would like an explanation for this result

[Roadrunner7671]

I thought it said in the setup that you couldn't vote for yourself?

[faust]

I thought it said in the setup that you couldn't vote for yourself?

Where did you read that? I don't find any passage like that in the rules.

[faust]

Clarification:
Never seen one this early in a day.  Usually late and after hashing it out.  I want the pressure on here, and would like an explanation for this result

It is quite obvious that the pressure is already on. I mean, both RR and me have expressed desire to lynch ash, so he is virtually already lynched unless he does some convincing. Not sure what you're trying to achieve with your vote.

[Roadrunner7671]

I thought it said in the setup that you couldn't vote for yourself?

Where did you read that? I don't find any passage like that in the rules.

I have a confession to make: I don't read the rules, even though it's a town tell for me.

[Hydrad]

I think we should at least talk this out a bit. also I'm in no other games and was slightly bored when it was nighttime so I like it when things are actually happening.

[faust]

We could also lynch PPS. Ifeel a rising urge to lynch PPS.

[Hydrad]

We could also lynch PPS. Ifeel a rising urge to lynch PPS.

interesting. whys that? or just gut

[faust]

We could also lynch PPS. Ifeel a rising urge to lynch PPS.

interesting. whys that? or just gut

Not game-related.

[Roadrunner7671]

We could also lynch PPS. Ifeel a rising urge to lynch PPS.

interesting. whys that? or just gut

Not game-related.

So it's personal?

[faust]

We could also lynch PPS. Ifeel a rising urge to lynch PPS.

interesting. whys that? or just gut

Not game-related.

So it's personal?

I suppose so... anyways, let's not distract ourselves with my personal feelings which have nothing to do with the game at this point.

[EgorK]

We could also lynch PPS. Ifeel a rising urge to lynch PPS.

interesting. whys that? or just gut

Not game-related.

I had quite same urge based on this game

[pingpongsam]

Jeeves, unvote

[pingpongsam]

I seriously doubt ash is scum coming to l-1 that fast.

I did not investigate Faust. I was only uncertain that there could be that much investigation in the game but I think there may be.

[pingpongsam]

We could also lynch PPS. Ifeel a rising urge to lynch PPS.

This is unrelated to the game isn't it?

[pingpongsam]

I definitely want to hear from ash and I am amazed he got to L-1 on a single post with no chance to respond.

[pingpongsam]

We could also lynch PPS. Ifeel a rising urge to lynch PPS.

This is unrelated to the game isn't it?

Oh, haha, you even said it wasn't. Nice, I see I can't speak my mind in another forum without being blackballed for participating elsewhere. Not much point in having that other forum then, is there?

[faust]

I definitely want to hear from ash and I am amazed he got to L-1 on a single post with no chance to respond.

Well, he was plenty scummy even before this day started.

[iguanaiguana]

We could also lynch PPS. Ifeel a rising urge to lynch PPS.

interesting. whys that? or just gut

Not game-related.

Man, what happens in RSP stays in RSP.

[iguanaiguana]

I seriously doubt ash is scum coming to l-1 that fast.

I did not investigate Faust. I was only uncertain that there could be that much investigation in the game but I think there may be.

This is ridiculous. Ash is Obvs!scum here and the people who are jumping on his lynch are the most towny people in the game. I feel pretty confident about the town alignment of most people who were on the Gkrieg wagon. The reason it took so long to get to 8 was precisely because scum did NOT want to get on it and hoped that the Silverspawn wagon would take off instead.

Now the same town players are being sensible and going for the lynch of the person who looks most scummy in relation to the events with Gkrieg Day 1. There could be one or two scum on this wagon, sure, but if there are any they are bussing.

[iguanaiguana]

We could also lynch PPS. Ifeel a rising urge to lynch PPS.

interesting. whys that? or just gut

Not game-related.

I had quite same urge based on this game

He is looking scummy to me today also.

Just not nearly so scummy as Ash.

[pingpongsam]

Since when is it scummy to expect someone to get more than the first post of D2 out before being summarily lynched within 4 hours without some kind of night result on them?

I feel like you are really reaching to make me out to be scummy for this.

[pingpongsam]

While I would have been happy to lynch ash later you've positioned such that you can paint me scum for getting off a crazy fast wagon or scum trying to bus if I get back on like you say I should. Nice but scummy, yourself.

[iguanaiguana]

Again, the things Ash did that were scummy were very much what he did on Day 1, and have little to do with what he has done on Day 2. His one statement on Day 2 is of course very consistent with his playstyle throughout the rest of this game so far. I certainly wouldn't be voting Ash if his only contribution to this game so far was his statement on Day 2; his behavior needs to be looked at within context of the entire game.

As for you (PPS), I am not at all convinced you are scum. However, there are (most likely) more than just two scum players in this game and I do need to start thinking about who we need to lynch after Ashersky so that town wins. So please forgive me for being skeptical. I am simply trying to advance the interests of the town.

[iguanaiguana]

While I would have been happy to lynch ash later you've positioned such that you can paint me scum for getting off a crazy fast wagon or scum trying to bus if I get back on like you say I should. Nice but scummy, yourself.

I do agree that the wagon grew very quickly, and if it had been at L-1 at any point when I was around to unvote, I would have done so myself. I think keeping it at L-2 for the time being is the sensible thing to do. It was not your unvoting that I felt was scummy, and I wll not be holding your unvoting against you.

[iguanaiguana]

I seriously doubt ash is scum coming to l-1 that fast.

I definitely want to hear from ash and I am amazed he got to L-1 on a single post with no chance to respond.

These were the main statements that I found scummy, because they are not taking the Day one context into account that has made Ash look very, very scummy and made every town player want to lynch him. However, I can also see these statements coming from a surprised town-member.

[pingpongsam]

Fair enough, I have to say I felt pretty distracted D1 with my role confusion so I have to do a reread with ash in mind. I am already rereading with the flips in mind. I'm doing those things as opposed to you know outright lynching someone immediately on day open.

[pingpongsam]

I will ask though, if ash was so scummy D1 why wasn't there ever any serious traction towards lynching him. Without a reread he doesn't stand out in my mind as scummy from yesterday just typical ash. The one thing I know is he was off wagon that hit scum.

[pingpongsam]

Also, I have seen a few ideas floating around that there might be additional scum faction in this game. I can see that considering the amount of apparent investigation. However, it looks like only one night kill. I am imagining e got the hit because SS looked pretty well situated for a potential,lynch wagon today.

[yuma]

Vote Count 2.3

faust: (1) ashersky
ashersky: (4) EgorK, iguanaiguana, Xerxes, Ampharos (L-2)


Not Voting (6): WW, Hydrad, Jimmmmm, RR, faust, PPS

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day1 will end Friday, November 13 at 4:30 pm forum time

[ashersky]

Observation of the day: some folks like to say "scummy behavior on D1" a lot but don't (can't) specifically point it out. It's a false crutch^(tm).

What I would suggest is a very close reread of my D1.  Ignore the pre-game posts when you do.  There is a puzzle to be solved there that will help you understand what is going on.  I believe at least two players still alive are mathelogically^(tm) inclined to figure it out.

As for explaining my result: not yet.  I'll wait to see what you see.

[faust]

I will ask though, if ash was so scummy D1 why wasn't there ever any serious traction towards lynching him. Without a reread he doesn't stand out in my mind as scummy from yesterday just typical ash. The one thing I know is he was off wagon that hit scum.

Well, the way he defended gkrieg was super scummy. Of course we can only make that argument now that we know that gkrieg was scum.

[faust]

I like puzzles. Let's see, these are all of ashersky's D1 posts... not a lot.

vote: silverspawn

Using "post by: username" in the print screen is still the easiest, and requires no additional usernames.

I've poured over the list and nothing sticks out to me as a role or modifier that would result in the misunderstanding that PPS claims to have had.

I was thinking something Sensor related?  Or possibly something activated.  But none of it works in context.

Thing is, what's the scum motivation for this?  The "too dumb to be scum" trope doesn't work for PPS, because we all know him too well (except for the newbies).

I will say, this puts him in the "okay to lynch" pile.  Given everyone gets roles, lynching someone who doesn't understand his own role isn't the worst thing ever.  Better than lynching someone who actually knows how to use his role.

I've got a good feeling on WW -- he's probably town.  (If he's alive on D3 or later, he's scum.)

I'm good with my vote -- it's not RVS.

XP reads scummy, but he always does.

The Jimmmmm and PPS votes put gkrieg to L-2, btw.

I don't see what others are seeing about gkrieg.  I think he's decidedly null so far.  I think SS is by far the scummiest player so far today.  I could also see faust being scum, given his lack of deductive reasoning.

So I guess I'd move my vote to faust, if that was going to happen.  Otherwise, I still think SS is the way to go.

There's just been very little else of interest.

[faust]

So what do we have?

I would guess that last post is supposed to be breadcrumbing your target? It makes little sense to say "silver is the scummiest play, but I would move my vote to faust" if there's a wagon on silver and none on me.

Otherwise, I don't know. ash speculates about Sensor that could be meant as a hint. But I don't see how a Sensor could get a result that would lead to him thinking I am scum.

The last thing I would investigate is the silverspawn vote... ash says it's not RVS, but never gives a reason, so there must be something there.

[faust]

Well, everything silver does up until ash's vote is attack e and Hydrad for not wanting to discuss Egor's claim... I don't see where ash's role could come in there.

[pingpongsam]

I like puzzles. Let's see, these are all of ashersky's D1 posts... not a lot.

vote: silverspawn

Using "post by: username" in the print screen is still the easiest, and requires no additional usernames.

I've poured over the list and nothing sticks out to me as a role or modifier that would result in the misunderstanding that PPS claims to have had.

I was thinking something Sensor related?  Or possibly something activated.  But none of it works in context.

Thing is, what's the scum motivation for this?  The "too dumb to be scum" trope doesn't work for PPS, because we all know him too well (except for the newbies).

I will say, this puts him in the "okay to lynch" pile.  Given everyone gets roles, lynching someone who doesn't understand his own role isn't the worst thing ever.  Better than lynching someone who actually knows how to use his role.

I've got a good feeling on WW -- he's probably town.  (If he's alive on D3 or later, he's scum.)

I'm good with my vote -- it's not RVS.

XP reads scummy, but he always does.

The Jimmmmm and PPS votes put gkrieg to L-2, btw.

I don't see what others are seeing about gkrieg.  I think he's decidedly null so far.  I think SS is by far the scummiest player so far today.  I could also see faust being scum, given his lack of deductive reasoning.

So I guess I'd move my vote to faust, if that was going to happen.  Otherwise, I still think SS is the way to go.

There's just been very little else of interest.

This explains why ash didn't stick in my mind much.

[pingpongsam]

After reread I am fine with an ashersky or xerxes lynch.
Also curious where Jimmmmm is and what he has to say.

[iguanaiguana]

Observation of the day: some folks like to say "scummy behavior on D1" a lot but don't (can't) specifically point it out. It's a false crutch^(tm).

I just didn't need to go back to remember the basic content of your shocking total of four posts.

When something is self evident to me, it seems a little pointless to go back and quote it, although in hindsight that would have been a simpler way to do it.

Obviously, it was your last post on day 1 that struck me as the most scummy (and it seemed scummy then, too, not just after Gkrieg flipped mafia). In particular, the way you dismiss basically everything that the town talks about in the day as "little else of interest" and the way you suggest that Faust is scum but that the town is probably not good enough at the game to notice it. Today, your calling my case against you a "false crutch" is the same sort of thing all over again. What in the world are you supposed to be contributing here?   

What I would suggest is a very close reread of my D1.  Ignore the pre-game posts when you do.  There is a puzzle to be solved there that will help you understand what is going on.  I believe at least two players still alive are mathelogically^(tm) inclined to figure it out.

Now, If everyone here wants to play at puzzles, that is fine with me. However, I really don't see the point in mysterious cloaked statements about roles and such. I know this is RMM but at the end of the day we have one goal right now and that is lynching the person most likely to be scum.

[faust]

Looking at the time stamps of ashersky's posts, it really seems like planned lurking - he almost precisely posts every 24 hours, which is the minimum required by the rules.

I don't see why ashersky would purposefully lurk though... I mean, he has been lynched a lot on D1 lately (both mislynched and correctly lynched), so I could see him wanting less attention.

[pingpongsam]

Looking at the time stamps of ashersky's posts, it really seems like planned lurking - he almost precisely posts every 24 hours, which is the minimum required by the rules.

I don't see why ashersky would purposefully lurk though... I mean, he has been lynched a lot on D1 lately (both mislynched and correctly lynched), so I could see him wanting less attention.

That's interesting to note. I have tired of looking over all the possible roles. Does anyone recall one which fits this MO?

[Roadrunner7671]

Hello!

[Witherweaver]

What's the point of scum!Ash doing this?

[faust]

What's the point of scum!Ash doing this?

What's the point of town!Ash doing this?

[Witherweaver]

What's the point of scum!Ash doing this?

What's the point of town!Ash doing this?

You're not necessarily Town. 

[iguanaiguana]

What's the point of scum!Ash doing this?

What's the point of town!Ash doing this?

You're not necessarily Town.

What kind of evidence is there against Faust at this point? Also Egor got a semi-reliable town read for him.

Ash's inscrutable behavior is absurd as town.

[Witherweaver]

How is it not absurd as scum?

[iguanaiguana]

How is it not absurd as scum?

It creates doubt about Ash's role and Faust's and encourages us to send time arguing with each other. The less people of the town like each other, the better for Ash's remaining partner(s)

[Witherweaver]

How is it not absurd as scum?

It creates doubt about Ash's role and Faust's and encourages us to send time arguing with each other. The less people of the town like each other, the better for Ash's remaining partner(s)

I don't buy that at all.  It's low reward, and not his style.

[faust]

The thing is, scum!ash would have had a very hard going here either way. He was very scummy D1 and knew that. Some gambit was necessary. Faking a result on me might at least get one more person lynched before ash goes down, and maybe he could make up some excuse for having a false result. ash could of course not foresee that Egor would counter him.

[faust]

What ash does now could be some desperate attampt to get Egor to spill details about his role so that ash can argue that his result was skewed because of Egor targetting me or something.

[pingpongsam]

The thing is, scum!ash would have had a very hard going here either way. He was very scummy D1 and knew that. Some gambit was necessary. Faking a result on me might at least get one more person lynched before ash goes down, and maybe he could make up some excuse for having a false result. ash could of course not foresee that Egor would counter him.

Or egork is your scumpartner.

[iguanaiguana]

Its definitely still possible that Faust is scum. Its possible for anyone to be. But right now I think it is in our best interest to assume the simplest possible solution is true. If Ash flips town, that would be a reason to start distracting Faust.

[XerxesPraelor]

The thing is, scum!ash would have had a very hard going here either way. He was very scummy D1 and knew that. Some gambit was necessary. Faking a result on me might at least get one more person lynched before ash goes down, and maybe he could make up some excuse for having a false result. ash could of course not foresee that Egor would counter him.

Or egork is your scumpartner.

Egork and faust were the two most townie players day 1 (RR excepted) - do you seriously think this is the case?

[iguanaiguana]

Distracting was bad phone prediction. I think I meant doubting?

[faust]

If Ash flips town, that would be a reason to start distracting Faust.

Look! Over there! Otters!

[XerxesPraelor]

If Ash flips town, that would be a reason to start distracting Faust.

Look! Over there! Otters!

No, otter people were supposed to be distracting you, not the otter way round.

[faust]

But really, I don't think this is leading anywhere. If anyone has a good reason not to end the day, let's hear it. For the time being,

Vote: ashersky

[yuma]

Vote Count 2.4

faust: (1) ashersky
ashersky: (5) EgorK, iguanaiguana, Xerxes, Ampharos, faust (L-1)


Not Voting (5): WW, Hydrad, Jimmmmm, RR, PPS

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day1 will end Friday, November 13 at 4:30 pm forum time

[faust]

So ash has been active on the forums 20 minutes ago, but did not bother to post here... can we lynch him now?

[iguanaiguana]

I'm also okay with a hammer.

Where's roadrunner when you need him?

[Witherweaver]

Well, I would really like to hear more from him. 

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.11

Hydrad (2): 2.7, Egork
SS (4): ashersky, WW, gkreig, Hydrad
gkrieg (8): Ampharos, faust, iguanaiguana, silverspawn, Jimmmmm, PPS, RR, Xerxes

Not Voting (0):

Vote Count 2.4

faust: (1) ashersky
ashersky: (5) EgorK, iguanaiguana, Xerxes, Ampharos, faust (L-1)


Not Voting (5): WW, Hydrad, Jimmmmm, RR, PPS

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day1 will end Friday, November 13 at 4:30 pm forum time

I assume I'll be lynched.  My last post was ill-timed.

For what it may be worth, my top scum reads: XP, EgorK, Hydrad, Ampharos, in that order.
My top town reads: WW, Faust, Jimmmmm, PPS, in that order.

I'm town, although my usefulness seems to come a bit late.

[Witherweaver]

Okay I'll bite.  Why did you come out with a guilty result on Faust and he's now top town read?

(Or implied guilty result.  I don't remember the exact wording.)

[EgorK]

I really stopped getting ash like at all

[faust]

I really stopped getting ash like at all

+1

[EgorK]

I really stopped getting ash like at all

Though transatlantic flight and sleep deprivation may be a factor here

[iguanaiguana]

Okay I'll bite.  Why did you come out with a guilty result on Faust and he's now top town read?

(Or implied guilty result.  I don't remember the exact wording.)

You're going to have to wait ~24 hours for a response.

[faust]

Request prod on Jimmmmm

Wouldn't hurt to at least have everyone chime in before we end the day.

[yuma]

Request prod on Jimmmmm

Wouldn't hurt to at least have everyone chime in before we end the day.

A prod has been sent

[pingpongsam]

The thing is, scum!ash would have had a very hard going here either way. He was very scummy D1 and knew that. Some gambit was necessary. Faking a result on me might at least get one more person lynched before ash goes down, and maybe he could make up some excuse for having a false result. ash could of course not foresee that Egor would counter him.

Or egork is your scumpartner.

Egork and faust were the two most townie players day 1 (RR excepted) - do you seriously think this is the case?

A) this is a logical deduction
B) if it smacks of being stupidly unlikely it probably is

C) just because I point it out doesn't mean I am trying to sell the case or wholeheartedly believe it all of a sudden.

[Roadrunner7671]

I still think Faust is the Survivor.
Is my vote on ashersky? He's at L-1, so I will not change my vote wherever it is.

[iguanaiguana]

The thing is, scum!ash would have had a very hard going here either way. He was very scummy D1 and knew that. Some gambit was necessary. Faking a result on me might at least get one more person lynched before ash goes down, and maybe he could make up some excuse for having a false result. ash could of course not foresee that Egor would counter him.

Or egork is your scumpartner.

Egork and faust were the two most townie players day 1 (RR excepted) - do you seriously think this is the case?

A) this is a logical deduction
B) if it smacks of being stupidly unlikely it probably is

C) just because I point it out doesn't mean I am trying to sell the case or wholeheartedly believe it all of a sudden.

Thank you for talking sense.

[XerxesPraelor]

The thing is, scum!ash would have had a very hard going here either way. He was very scummy D1 and knew that. Some gambit was necessary. Faking a result on me might at least get one more person lynched before ash goes down, and maybe he could make up some excuse for having a false result. ash could of course not foresee that Egor would counter him.

Or egork is your scumpartner.

Egork and faust were the two most townie players day 1 (RR excepted) - do you seriously think this is the case?

A) this is a logical deduction
B) if it smacks of being stupidly unlikely it probably is

C) just because I point it out doesn't mean I am trying to sell the case or wholeheartedly believe it all of a sudden.

Sorry, it's hard to differentiate indirect statements from their literal counterparts over the internet.

[XerxesPraelor]

I still think Faust is the Survivor.
Is my vote on ashersky? He's at L-1, so I will not change my vote wherever it is.

Why do you think there is a survivor? Don't you think he would have tried to act scummier if he were?

[Roadrunner7671]

I still think Faust is the Survivor.
Is my vote on ashersky? He's at L-1, so I will not change my vote wherever it is.

Why do you think there is a survivor? Don't you think he would have tried to act scummier if he were?

Some people think he is scum and he could be a D-3 lynch, so I think he's playing it perfectly.

[EgorK]

XP, RR, are you confusing survivor and jester?

[EgorK]

And my result, unless tampered, rule out any alignment for faust but town

[iguanaiguana]

XP, RR, are you confusing survivor and jester?

Well, Jester is not listed in the possible roles for this setup, whereas survivor is technically a possible role here.

In my (admittedly limited) experience with Roadrunner, he usually gets a funny idea in his head and then doesn't like to let it go. You don't need to pay a lot of attention to it, and its not really a scum tell so much as roadrunner just telling us all what he's thinking about.

[XerxesPraelor]

XP, RR, are you confusing survivor and jester?

Survivor doesn't want to be NKed for being towny.

[Hydrad]

I'm fine with the ash lynch!

[faust]

I'm fine with the ash lynch!

Well, how about voting then?

[Hydrad]

I could. just wasn't sure if we wanted the day to go on any longer and waiting for Jimmm.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm the worst, I know. Anyone want to catch me up?

[faust]

I'm the worst, I know. Anyone want to catch me up?

ash has claimed that he has a result on me and voted for me. Then some people voted for ash and Egor claimed he has a result stating that I am town. Then a couple more people voted ash. Then ash said that I am his top town read.

Now ash is at L-1.

[pingpongsam]

Not sure why Jimmmmm makes top 3 most likely town for ash.

I personally don't think ash is scum because this is not strong scum play and I do think such poor play is indicative of some town payoff. If that is the case I think he needs to claim it because otherwise I still think he is a good lynch candidate regardless of his alignment.

[pingpongsam]

I'm the worst, I know. Anyone want to catch me up?

ash has claimed that he has a result on me and voted for me. Then some people voted for ash and Egor claimed he has a result stating that I am town. Then a couple more people voted ash. Then ash said that I am his top town read.

Now ash is at L-1.

Maybe ash has come around to the idea his investigation got hijacked? Maybe maybe many things. We can't know if he won't post which is why i think lynching him is not a bad deal regardless.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm the worst, I know. Anyone want to catch me up?

ash has claimed that he has a result on me and voted for me. Then some people voted for ash and Egor claimed he has a result stating that I am town. Then a couple more people voted ash. Then ash said that I am his top town read.

Now ash is at L-1.

And ash hasn't given more specifics on his result?

[faust]

I'm the worst, I know. Anyone want to catch me up?

ash has claimed that he has a result on me and voted for me. Then some people voted for ash and Egor claimed he has a result stating that I am town. Then a couple more people voted ash. Then ash said that I am his top town read.

Now ash is at L-1.

And ash hasn't given more specifics on his result?

Nope.

[pingpongsam]

In my mind before the floor dropped out from under ash we needed to hear from Jimmmmm and give ash an opportunity to claim. I'm flexible on the last one.

[faust]

Okay, Jimmmmm has chimed in, super helpful as usual. Nothing else is happening. Can we please finally lynch ashersky and end this stallfest?

[yuma]

Vote Count 2.5

faust: (1) ashersky
ashersky: (5) EgorK, iguanaiguana, Xerxes, Ampharos, faust (L-1)


Not Voting (5): WW, Hydrad, Jimmmmm, RR, PPS

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day1 will end Friday, November 13 at 4:30 pm forum time

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Ashersky

I would like to lynch RR as well.

[iguanaiguana]

You think RR before Hydrad?

[yuma]

Thread Locked!

[yuma]

Final Day2 Vote Count

faust (1): ashersky
ashersky (6): EgorK, iguanaiguana, Xerxes, Ampharos, faust, WW

Not voting (4): Hydrad, Jimmmmm, RR, PPS

With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.

ashersky has been lynched. He was a Delayed Ninja JK.

Night2 Begins Now. Because today is a weekend day the night submission deadline will be 36 hours from this post. Night2 will last at least 24 hours after that point.

Thread Still Locked!

[yuma]

Night action deadline will actually be a little bit earlier than the 36 hours previously stated. Let's make it 9:00 pm forum time, Monday 11/9. Day3 will then start around 9:00 pm forum time, Tuesday 11/10.

[yuma]

Night action deadline has passed. Day3 will start at 9:00 pm forum time, Tuesday November 10.

[yuma]

Day3 Start

No one died last night.

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting: (10) EgorK, iguanaiguana, Xerxes, Ampharos, faust, WW, Hydrad, Jimmmmm, RR, PPS

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Thread Unlocked!

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: XerxesPraelor

[pingpongsam]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

[Hydrad]

oh interesting.

also is there a reason for that iguana?

[Roadrunner7671]

People are voting too fast!

Ppe

[Hydrad]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

oh also interesting!

Vote: WW

[Roadrunner7671]

So we trust PPS now?

STOP VOTING 😬

[iguanaiguana]

WW neighbored me last night. PPS is not lying.

My vote for XP was simply based on his being Ashersky's top scum read.

<b> Vote: Witherweaver. </b>

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Witherweaver

Dang quicktopics

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.1

witherweaver (3): pps, Hydrad, iguanaiguana

Not Voting: (7) EgorK, Xerxes, Ampharos, faust, Hydrad, Jimmmmm, RR

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

[Roadrunner7671]

Oh, mon. Let's not have a 10 minute day.

[Witherweaver]

I'm am a neighborizor and targetted PPS Night 1 and Iguana last night. 

I thought PPS was town though.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm out. See you all tomorrow morning.

[pingpongsam]

Oh, mon. Let's not have a 10 minute day.

SOP is we should hear from all players and anyone at L-1 should get an opportunity to claim.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm am a neighborizor and targetted PPS Night 1 and Iguana last night. 

I thought PPS was town though.

You! Know! I! Am! Town!

If you want to live, prove me you are not scum, and that PPS is.

[pingpongsam]

I'm am a neighborizor and targetted PPS Night 1 and Iguana last night. 

I thought PPS was town though.

That's because I am. Do you have an explanation for your guilty result? I mean I got dual results on someone N1 so they can clearly be tampered with.

Also, let's not forget ash had a result on Faust but he sure made it look doubtful by calling him a top town read later that day.

[Witherweaver]

PPS, do you want to claim what your full result is? 

All I can tell you is that I'm Town. 

[Jimmmmm]

I'm am a neighborizor and targetted PPS Night 1 and Iguana last night. 

I thought PPS was town though.

So you have a Neighbourhood with them now?

[iguanaiguana]

Our neighbor status disappears at the end of the night.

[Witherweaver]

I'm am a neighborizor and targetted PPS Night 1 and Iguana last night. 

I thought PPS was town though.

So you have a Neighbourhood with them now?

No, it lasts only the night it's created.

[Jimmmmm]

Ah I see.

[iguanaiguana]

Unvote

I'm going to bed, and I don't want to see WW lynched while I'm sleeping (even if its unlikely.

Hopefully in the morning someone can explain something a little more than what is currently explained.

[Jimmmmm]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

Why is being guarded suspicious?

[Jimmmmm]

WW neighbored me last night. PPS is not lying.

My vote for XP was simply based on his being Ashersky's top scum read.

<b> Vote: Witherweaver. </b>

Neighbourslip!

[pingpongsam]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

Why is being guarded suspicious?

Why not? I felt like he was hiding something. I thought maybe he was just not very trusting although I was putting a lot out there (note he even says he thinks or thought I am town). I thought this made him a reasonable target for investigation. Right now it looks like my gut was right and I made a superb choice for my target.

[pingpongsam]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

Why is being guarded suspicious?

While you are on would you like to explain why I got both guilty and not guilty results on you N1?

[pingpongsam]

Also signing off for the night, be interested to see where this went in the AM.

[Jimmmmm]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

Why is being guarded suspicious?

Why not? I felt like he was hiding something. I thought maybe he was just not very trusting although I was putting a lot out there (note he even says he thinks or thought I am town). I thought this made him a reasonable target for investigation. Right now it looks like my gut was right and I made a superb choice for my target.

What was he being guarded about? If he's a Neighbouriser, surely you knew his role (regardless of alignment) already?

[Jimmmmm]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

Why is being guarded suspicious?

While you are on would you like to explain why I got both guilty and not guilty results on you N1?

Clearly I have two roles.

How can you get two results on one person in any Night, let alone Night 1?

[Witherweaver]

PPS said he could investigate and that he had chosen Jimmm on Night 1.  He was going to indicate (to me) whether it was guilty or not in his first message.  He, apparently, got both results on you, hence his opening post yesterday.

PPS asked me to share more, basically offering his info for mine.  But, I don't have anything to reciprocate with, which is what I told him.  I think he saw it as being guarded. 

[Witherweaver]

I didn't full claim to him.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

Nice.

vote: witherweaver

[Jimmmmm]

I'm not sure how we can trust any kind of result any more.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

Why is being guarded suspicious?

While you are on would you like to explain why I got both guilty and not guilty results on you N1?

This is really weird. I think I believe it - scum wouldn't claim something that strange.

[Jimmmmm]

Has pps claimed his role?

[XerxesPraelor]

I don't think so?

[Witherweaver]

I think the most likely case is that there's some role to mess with results. 

[Hydrad]

Hmm I'm guessing its to early for a full claim kinda thing?

This is mainly motivated by curiosity though...

[faust]

Okay. So there are things I need to do.

Egor, I need you to state the exact nature of your result on me.

[faust]

Also looking at PPS's previously shown reading skills, I'm not sure I can trust the weirdness of his claim without him telling us the kind of result he got.

[faust]

I mean, the fact that he felt it necessary to include some read based on the neighborhood thing along with his "guilty" result indicates to me that the result isn't quite as waterproof as "guilty" makes us think.

[Ampharos]

Up to date on the posts, but at a conference today and tomorrow.  We'll be on laptops (yay tech conferences!) so I'll probably check in every so often. 

Some sort of odd shenanigans happened last night with the lack of kill, but I'll take it however it happened. 

I would like to hear from EgorK as well.  Faust is very town for me and I'd like to stamp #confirmed on that if possible, mostly clearing EgorK as well.  I already trust you two but always appreciate a little more knowledge.

[pingpongsam]

Up to date on the posts, but at a conference today and tomorrow.  We'll be on laptops (yay tech conferences!) so I'll probably check in every so often. 

Some sort of odd shenanigans happened last night with the lack of kill, but I'll take it however it happened. 

I would like to hear from EgorK as well.  Faust is very town for me and I'd like to stamp #confirmed on that if possible, mostly clearing EgorK as well.  I already trust you two but always appreciate a little more knowledge.

Seriously? Known town ash got a result on Faust yesterday. Faust is not conftown to me at all. The only issues I am having at the moment are A) results may be faulty and B) it looks like there are quite a bit of scum in the game but night kills are thin.

[pingpongsam]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

Why is being guarded suspicious?

While you are on would you like to explain why I got both guilty and not guilty results on you N1?

Clearly I have two roles.

How can you get two results on one person in any Night, let alone Night 1?

 I thought I asked you for the explanation, here... I am telling you on N1 when I investigated you I got a result of Guilty and Not Guilty.

[Roadrunner7671]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

Why is being guarded suspicious?

While you are on would you like to explain why I got both guilty and not guilty results on you N1?

Clearly I have two roles.

How can you get two results on one person in any Night, let alone Night 1?

 I thought I asked you for the explanation, here... I am telling you on N1 when I investigated you I got a result of Guilty and Not Guilty.

Cause he's the Survivor.

[faust]

Up to date on the posts, but at a conference today and tomorrow.  We'll be on laptops (yay tech conferences!) so I'll probably check in every so often. 

Some sort of odd shenanigans happened last night with the lack of kill, but I'll take it however it happened. 

I would like to hear from EgorK as well.  Faust is very town for me and I'd like to stamp #confirmed on that if possible, mostly clearing EgorK as well.  I already trust you two but always appreciate a little more knowledge.

Seriously? Known town ash got a result on Faust yesterday. Faust is not conftown to me at all. The only issues I am having at the moment are A) results may be faulty and B) it looks like there are quite a bit of scum in the game but night kills are thin.

You mean the Delayed Ninja Jailkeeper got a result on me? What exactly do you think this result could be? It is clear that ash has been lying. Plus ash stated that I am his top town read before dying.

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.2

witherweaver (3): pps, Hydrad, xerxes

Not Voting: (7) EgorK, Ampharos, faust, WW, Jimmmmm, RR, iguanaiguana

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

[iguanaiguana]

Does anyone else think they can explain the lack of a nightkill? If no one else can, I may be able to and I would also have a reasonable lynch target for us.

[pingpongsam]

Up to date on the posts, but at a conference today and tomorrow.  We'll be on laptops (yay tech conferences!) so I'll probably check in every so often. 

Some sort of odd shenanigans happened last night with the lack of kill, but I'll take it however it happened. 

I would like to hear from EgorK as well.  Faust is very town for me and I'd like to stamp #confirmed on that if possible, mostly clearing EgorK as well.  I already trust you two but always appreciate a little more knowledge.

Seriously? Known town ash got a result on Faust yesterday. Faust is not conftown to me at all. The only issues I am having at the moment are A) results may be faulty and B) it looks like there are quite a bit of scum in the game but night kills are thin.

You mean the Delayed Ninja Jailkeeper got a result on me? What exactly do you think this result could be? It is clear that ash has been lying. Plus ash stated that I am his top town read before dying.

Yeah good point.

[pingpongsam]

Jimmmmm says he has two roles and my result says one of those is not Town. I'm currently seeking clarification what my result should be if someone is Survivor.
Still feeling good about my vote on WW.

[Jimmmmm]

vote: Witherweaver

I got a guilty result on him last night. Also he neighbored me N1 and I got a bad feeling about him then because he was very guarded despite me revealing quite a bit of my role including who I targeted N1 for investigation.

Why is being guarded suspicious?

While you are on would you like to explain why I got both guilty and not guilty results on you N1?

Clearly I have two roles.

How can you get two results on one person in any Night, let alone Night 1?

 I thought I asked you for the explanation, here... I am telling you on N1 when I investigated you I got a result of Guilty and Not Guilty.

I have no explanation.

(Saying I have two roles was a joke.)

[faust]

Does anyone else think they can explain the lack of a nightkill? If no one else can, I may be able to and I would also have a reasonable lynch target for us.

Well, ash was a delayed JK, so that's an explanation right there.

[iguanaiguana]

Does anyone else think they can explain the lack of a nightkill? If no one else can, I may be able to and I would also have a reasonable lynch target for us.

Well, ash was a delayed JK, so that's an explanation right there.

I agree, but it sounds like Ash targeted either you or EgorK

[pingpongsam]

yuma tells me it's beyond his scope to inform me what a result on a Survivor would look like. He cited some rules specific to this which I cannot disagree with at all.

Looking into the Survivor role, I personally don't see it being a terribly anti-town thing to have around. I don't know how prudent it is to fish for Jimmmmm's role. I feel like I am at least within reason to inquire how I got such a screwy result on him. His denial of having multiple roles and generally acting as if I might be anything less than honest and straightforward about it is what makes me feel uneasy.

For now, I consider Jimmmmm the most significant threat outside of WW who I have every reason to believe is actually scum.

[pingpongsam]

Does anyone else think they can explain the lack of a nightkill? If no one else can, I may be able to and I would also have a reasonable lynch target for us.

Well, ash was a delayed JK, so that's an explanation right there.

I agree, but it sounds like Ash targeted either you or EgorK

By extension you are saying scum also targeted either faust or egorK, right?

[iguanaiguana]

yuma tells me it's beyond his scope to inform me what a result on a Survivor would look like. He cited some rules specific to this which I cannot disagree with at all.

Looking into the Survivor role, I personally don't see it being a terribly anti-town thing to have around. I don't know how prudent it is to fish for Jimmmmm's role. I feel like I am at least within reason to inquire how I got such a screwy result on him. His denial of having multiple roles and generally acting as if I might be anything less than honest and straightforward about it is what makes me feel uneasy.

For now, I consider Jimmmmm the most significant threat outside of WW who I have every reason to believe is actually scum.

I want to bekieve you, but to be honest your claims this game have been a bit of a mess. At first you thought your role was a posting restriction....

Can you claim? I think it would help everyone make sense of your results.

[iguanaiguana]

Does anyone else think they can explain the lack of a nightkill? If no one else can, I may be able to and I would also have a reasonable lynch target for us.

Well, ash was a delayed JK, so that's an explanation right there.

I agree, but it sounds like Ash targeted either you or EgorK

By extension you are saying scum also targeted either faust or egorK, right?

Oh, that makes sense actually. I was thinking that it would mean Faust/Egor are scum and got roleblocked, but what you are saying is more likely.

[pingpongsam]

yuma tells me it's beyond his scope to inform me what a result on a Survivor would look like. He cited some rules specific to this which I cannot disagree with at all.

Looking into the Survivor role, I personally don't see it being a terribly anti-town thing to have around. I don't know how prudent it is to fish for Jimmmmm's role. I feel like I am at least within reason to inquire how I got such a screwy result on him. His denial of having multiple roles and generally acting as if I might be anything less than honest and straightforward about it is what makes me feel uneasy.

For now, I consider Jimmmmm the most significant threat outside of WW who I have every reason to believe is actually scum.

I want to bekieve you, but to be honest your claims this game have been a bit of a mess. At first you thought your role was a posting restriction....

Can you claim? I think it would help everyone make sense of your results.

I will say that I am a cop. My results are straight up alignment tells. I have another role that is not quite so awesome and I have modifiers on both of those roles but I have no interest in explaining what they are because scum could easily exploit them.

[pingpongsam]

If anyone is some sort of watcher role that can see who targeted someone at night (which it sounds like is a likely thing in this setup) it would be super if someone saw someone else target faust or egorK, is what I am thinking.

[pingpongsam]

yuma tells me it's beyond his scope to inform me what a result on a Survivor would look like. He cited some rules specific to this which I cannot disagree with at all.

Looking into the Survivor role, I personally don't see it being a terribly anti-town thing to have around. I don't know how prudent it is to fish for Jimmmmm's role. I feel like I am at least within reason to inquire how I got such a screwy result on him. His denial of having multiple roles and generally acting as if I might be anything less than honest and straightforward about it is what makes me feel uneasy.

For now, I consider Jimmmmm the most significant threat outside of WW who I have every reason to believe is actually scum.

I want to bekieve you, but to be honest your claims this game have been a bit of a mess. At first you thought your role was a posting restriction....

Can you claim? I think it would help everyone make sense of your results.

I will say that I am a cop. My results are straight up alignment tells. I have another role that is not quite so awesome and I have modifiers on both of those roles but I have no interest in explaining what they are because scum could easily exploit them.

Also, I expect to die tonight.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Roadrunner

Faust, do you have any idea what Ash was up to?

[Witherweaver]

Okay wait.. we had no kills tonight, and Ash was a delayed Jailkeep.  He may have bee signaling who he Jailkept Night 1.

[Witherweaver]

Vote Count 1.11

Hydrad (2): 2.7, Egork
SS (4): ashersky, WW, gkreig, Hydrad
gkrieg (8): Ampharos, faust, iguanaiguana, silverspawn, Jimmmmm, PPS, RR, Xerxes

Not Voting (0):

Vote Count 2.4

faust: (1) ashersky
ashersky: (5) EgorK, iguanaiguana, Xerxes, Ampharos, faust (L-1)


Not Voting (5): WW, Hydrad, Jimmmmm, RR, PPS

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day1 will end Friday, November 13 at 4:30 pm forum time

I assume I'll be lynched.  My last post was ill-timed.

For what it may be worth, my top scum reads: XP, EgorK, Hydrad, Ampharos, in that order.
My top town reads: WW, Faust, Jimmmmm, PPS, in that order.

I'm town, although my usefulness seems to come a bit late.

Okay, if it was scum XP, if it was town me.  Well evidence against me was not what I wanted from this. 

Would Ash JK town or scum?

[faust]

I will say that I am a cop. My results are straight up alignment tells. I have another role that is not quite so awesome and I have modifiers on both of those roles but I have no interest in explaining what they are because scum could easily exploit them.

So you have two roles and two modifiers?

[faust]

Vote: Roadrunner

Faust, do you have any idea what Ash was up to?

Not a clue. Well, I can think of stuff, but it's all pretty meh. I see no reaosn for him to act the way he did.

[faust]

Okay wait.. we had no kills tonight, and Ash was a delayed Jailkeep.  He may have bee signaling who he Jailkept Night 1.

Only that's actually a horrible idea because scum gets much more of an advantage out of this information than town does.

[Witherweaver]

Okay wait.. we had no kills tonight, and Ash was a delayed Jailkeep.  He may have bee signaling who he Jailkept Night 1.

Only that's actually a horrible idea because scum gets much more of an advantage out of this information than town does.

Well I guess there's some WIFOM in there.  But when he posted his last message, he seemed 100% convinced he was getting lynched.

[pingpongsam]

Okay wait.. we had no kills tonight, and Ash was a delayed Jailkeep.  He may have bee signaling who he Jailkept Night 1.

Only that's actually a horrible idea because scum gets much more of an advantage out of this information than town does.

I thought it was fairly clear that saying faust was his top town read was a tell that he delay JK'd faust.

[faust]

Okay wait.. we had no kills tonight, and Ash was a delayed Jailkeep.  He may have bee signaling who he Jailkept Night 1.

Only that's actually a horrible idea because scum gets much more of an advantage out of this information than town does.

I thought it was fairly clear that saying faust was his top town read was a tell that he delay JK'd faust.

And I think that is bad play and ash would not do it. I cannot confirm that I was not jaikept though.

[iguanaiguana]

He said WW was his top town read. Faust came in second.

[pingpongsam]

I will say that I am a cop. My results are straight up alignment tells. I have another role that is not quite so awesome and I have modifiers on both of those roles but I have no interest in explaining what they are because scum could easily exploit them.

So you have two roles and two modifiers?

Yes. I have two roles and each has a modifier attached to it. Revealing either modifier makes either role exploitable. I see no good reason to claim the other role at this time. I will say I have not exercised the other role power because the modifier to it has prevented me from doing so up to this point.

[iguanaiguana]

I am still on board with possibly lynching WW. However, before that I'd like to hear from Hydrad. I have night info that leads me to suspect he may be scum.

Vote: hydrad

[pingpongsam]

Yes. I have two roles...

This is a leading reason why I think Jimmmmm may be lying about not having 2 roles.

[pingpongsam]

Yes. I have two roles...

This is a leading reason why I think Jimmmmm may be lying about not having 2 roles.

And why I suspect WW of being more than a neighborizer.

[Witherweaver]

Yes. I have two roles...

This is a leading reason why I think Jimmmmm may be lying about not having 2 roles.

And why I suspect WW of being more than a neighborizer.

I never said that I wasn't.

[Witherweaver]

I am still on board with possibly lynching WW. However, before that I'd like to hear from Hydrad. I have night info that leads me to suspect he may be scum.

Vote: hydrad

I see your point.

Vote: Hydrad

[iguanaiguana]

I am still on board with possibly lynching WW. However, before that I'd like to hear from Hydrad. I have night info that leads me to suspect he may be scum.

Vote: hydrad

I see your point.

Vote: Hydrad

Yeah, exactly the support I wanted on this venture. Someone with no other resort

[Witherweaver]

I am still on board with possibly lynching WW. However, before that I'd like to hear from Hydrad. I have night info that leads me to suspect he may be scum.

Vote: hydrad

I see your point.

Vote: Hydrad

Yeah, exactly the support I wanted on this venture. Someone with no other resort

Ha, I hardly think that's the case.

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.3

witherweaver (3): pps, Hydrad, xerxes
Hydrad (2): iguanaiguana, WW

Not Voting (5): EgorK, Ampharos, faust, Jimmmmm, RR

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

[EgorK]

Just skimmed through, need to do a reread, but traveling atm

Faust, my result is that your wincon is same as town. My way of getting this result is not really investigative, but it is still subject to roleblocking and riderecting

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm not voting. Let's be calm, guys.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm not voting. Let's be calm, guys.

Voting is how you put pressure on people to make them talk. Not voting is essentially not participating. Also, there is no risk of scum hammering someone out of the game when they are not even at L-2.

Why on earth do you think we are not calm?

[Roadrunner7671]

All these votes flying around...it seems hectic.

And I question again-why are we blindly following PPS?

Should I just act how people want me to and vote WW so that I stay in line?

[iguanaiguana]

All these votes flying around...it seems hectic.

And I question again-why are we blindly following PPS?

Should I just act how people want me to and vote WW so that I stay in line?

What people want you to do that? Right now, three people are voting Witherweaver: PPS, Hydrad and XerxesPraelor.

They have a realtively decent reason, which is that PPS has claimed a guilty cop result on Witherweaver.

That said, it is at least worth using this day to explore other possible scum reads that people have, and to let other people chime in with their own thoughts and results, before we just end the day and lynch WW. Hence, I'm putting pressure on Hydrad, and his response (none) to that pressure is making me think more and more that I'd prefer to lynch him, especially since I know he's been active elsewhere recently.

And as long as we are exploring things, I happen to know that you visited me last night. Care to share anything about that?

[Roadrunner7671]

Oh yeah, I sort of visited you for the 'lol' factor just to make myself more suspicious in your eyes.

With my role, I would rather not visit people.

[Witherweaver]

I'm definitely for lynching RR.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm definitely for lynching RR.

Unfortunately, this is arguably the scummiest thing about you.

[Witherweaver]

I'm definitely for lynching RR.

Unfortunately, this is arguably the scummiest thing about you.

You think RR is town?

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't mean to brag, but I'm basically an IC.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm definitely for lynching RR.

Unfortunately, this is arguably the scummiest thing about you.

You think RR is town?

It might help your case if you can make a compelling case for him being scum. I have a townread on him for now.

[XerxesPraelor]

All these votes flying around...it seems hectic.

And I question again-why are we blindly following PPS?

If he's scum, we can lynch him tomorrow.

[XerxesPraelor]

Oh yeah, I sort of visited you for the 'lol' factor just to make myself more suspicious in your eyes.

With my role, I would rather not visit people.

What? Why would you want to be more suspicious?

[Witherweaver]

I'm definitely for lynching RR.

Unfortunately, this is arguably the scummiest thing about you.

You think RR is town?

It might help your case if you can make a compelling case for him being scum. I have a townread on him for now.

Well, aside from the continued insistence that everyone is the Survivor, posts like these

All these votes flying around...it seems hectic.

And I question again-why are we blindly following PPS?

Should I just act how people want me to and vote WW so that I stay in line?

are very scummy.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm definitely for lynching RR.

Unfortunately, this is arguably the scummiest thing about you.

You think RR is town?

It might help your case if you can make a compelling case for him being scum. I have a townread on him for now.

Well, aside from the continued insistence that everyone is the Survivor, posts like these

All these votes flying around...it seems hectic.

And I question again-why are we blindly following PPS?

Should I just act how people want me to and vote WW so that I stay in line?

are very scummy.

Have you seen his other completes games though?

RR seems to have ethical issues with lynching people. I don't think it's a scumtell for him.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm sorry that I feel bad about hanging a person. Please accept my apology.

And I seemed to not look scummy in II's eyes, so I don't think that was a scum slip.

[pingpongsam]

I agree that when I read RR's latest batch of posts it sounds like newb scum getting freaked his scumteam is getting destroyed early leaving him alone to try to turn it around.

There are not exactly a ton of "votes flying around". The ones that have been placed have some decent reasons except for the thing on Hydrad which I am not following.

I am not being "blindly followed". I have a result and a case built on direct interaction. I would posit I have the most solid reason against anyone this game thus far.

I certainly do not know RR's meta but others indicate he is within it. Also, my top scum read is using it as leverage so I tend to think that is a town tell for now.

Really, I'm just getting more certain the WW thing is a good plan but I do like the continued interaction.

[Roadrunner7671]

PPS has never played with me.

I've been told I'm very strange.
I'm also 13, if that's a factor.

[iguanaiguana]

I agree that when I read RR's latest batch of posts it sounds like newb scum getting freaked his scumteam is getting destroyed early leaving him alone to try to turn it around.

There are not exactly a ton of "votes flying around". The ones that have been placed have some decent reasons except for the thing on Hydrad which I am not following.

I am not being "blindly followed". I have a result and a case built on direct interaction. I would posit I have the most solid reason against anyone this game thus far.

I certainly do not know RR's meta but others indicate he is within it. Also, my top scum read is using it as leverage so I tend to think that is a town tell for now.

Really, I'm just getting more certain the WW thing is a good plan but I do like the continued interaction.

The WW plan is good and I am ready to get back on that vote when it matters. Consider me to have an invisible vote on him for now.

The Hydrad thing is based on my night action. Basically I want to hear what he had been planning on doing last night because from my perspective it doesn't look good.

The reason I'm voting for him right now is because there is almost certainly still more than one scum in this game and we need as many reads as possible for tomorrow.

Basically I just want to get the most out of this day, especially since yesterday was so short and we ended up accidentally lynching a jailkeep.

[iguanaiguana]

Let me clarify a sub-point of that last message:

Hydrad: What were you planning to do last night? From my perspective, it doesn't look good.

[Witherweaver]

Iguana, also keep in mind Ash's action was delayed.

[Witherweaver]

Oh, hey, we know Ash didn't Jailkeep me, because my neighborhood went through.  Look at that!

[Witherweaver]

Also back to

Vote: Roadrunner

[Roadrunner7671]

Time to panic.
Why?

[Witherweaver]

Just look at the flowers.

[Roadrunner7671]

Just look at the flowers.

Too soon.
Vote: WW

[faust]

I will say that I am a cop. My results are straight up alignment tells. I have another role that is not quite so awesome and I have modifiers on both of those roles but I have no interest in explaining what they are because scum could easily exploit them.

So you have two roles and two modifiers?

Yes. I have two roles and each has a modifier attached to it. Revealing either modifier makes either role exploitable. I see no good reason to claim the other role at this time. I will say I have not exercised the other role power because the modifier to it has prevented me from doing so up to this point.

Each player will receive a role from the list below. Each players' role will be modified by two role modifiers listed below.

PPS is caught in a fakeclaim.

Vote: pingpongsam

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: pingpongsam

This game is definitely an RMM.

[Roadrunner7671]

Unvote

[pingpongsam]

I will say that I am a cop. My results are straight up alignment tells. I have another role that is not quite so awesome and I have modifiers on both of those roles but I have no interest in explaining what they are because scum could easily exploit them.

So you have two roles and two modifiers?

Yes. I have two roles and each has a modifier attached to it. Revealing either modifier makes either role exploitable. I see no good reason to claim the other role at this time. I will say I have not exercised the other role power because the modifier to it has prevented me from doing so up to this point.

Each player will receive a role from the list below. Each players' role will be modified by two role modifiers listed below.

PPS is caught in a fakeclaim.

Vote: pingpongsam

Seriously? You think I wouldn't read over the setup enough to make a believable fake claim? You think I am going to make an obvious screw up so I get nailed? Better yet, why would I claim anything outside of being a cop? Why add anything else to it at all? I am not caught in anything. You seem to want to get caught mislynching another townie today, though.

[pingpongsam]

Also you take that rule out of context. The modifiers themselves can be roles.

For example, my cop ability comes in the form of a "copping" modifier. The role power itself is a modifier. I suppose if you want me to spell it out I am a copping, otherwise modified, thing doer.

[pingpongsam]

Are you done fishing now?

[iguanaiguana]

Also you take that rule out of context. The modifiers themselves can be roles.

For example, my cop ability comes in the form of a "copping" modifier. The role power itself is a modifier. I suppose if you want me to spell it out I am a copping, otherwise modified, thing doer.

Makes sense to me!

[faust]

Also you take that rule out of context. The modifiers themselves can be roles.

For example, my cop ability comes in the form of a "copping" modifier. The role power itself is a modifier. I suppose if you want me to spell it out I am a copping, otherwise modified, thing doer.

This is in direct contrast with your previous claim, in which you state that you did not use your other role power yet. If copping is a odified, you'd have to use it together with your other modifier.

I'm not sure what the game plan is here, but I don't buy this for one second.

[iguanaiguana]

PPS: Did you full claim to Witherweaver N1?

Witherweaver told me on N2 that he was pretty sure you were town. So unless you are both scum (seems unlikely), that means that WW has heard your full claim and thinks it makes sense.

Not that I expect WW to cooperate much now, considering telling the truth here is likely to get him lynched...

[iguanaiguana]

Also, if you are getting killed tonight anyway, full claiming really seems like it wouldn't hurt...

[faust]

Seriously? You think I wouldn't read over the setup enough to make a believable fake claim? You think I am going to make an obvious screw up so I get nailed?

Typical "I'm not that bad at scum" defense, which is actually useless. Yes, even you would make mistakes. Mistake-making is how we catch scum. The rule is not very prominent.

Better yet, why would I claim anything outside of being a cop? Why add anything else to it at all?

I don't know, there are a bazillion reasons, the best is that you like making up crazy fakeclaims.

[Witherweaver]

PPS: Did you full claim to Witherweaver N1?

Witherweaver told me on N2 that he was pretty sure you were town. So unless you are both scum (seems unlikely), that means that WW has heard your full claim and thinks it makes sense.

Not that I expect WW to cooperate much now, considering telling the truth here is likely to get him lynched...

PPS did not full claim to me.  He told me only that he had some kind of cop role, with modifiers.  He said he had another thing, too, but not what it was.

What he said, and how he said it, sounded believable. 

PPEs

[faust]

Also you take that rule out of context. The modifiers themselves can be roles.

For example, my cop ability comes in the form of a "copping" modifier. The role power itself is a modifier. I suppose if you want me to spell it out I am a copping, otherwise modified, thing doer.

This is in direct contrast with your previous claim, in which you state that you did not use your other role power yet. If copping is a odified, you'd have to use it together with your other modifier.

I'm not sure what the game plan is here, but I don't buy this for one second.

odified = modifier
modifier = role

I shouldn't post when excited.

[Witherweaver]

Also you take that rule out of context. The modifiers themselves can be roles.

For example, my cop ability comes in the form of a "copping" modifier. The role power itself is a modifier. I suppose if you want me to spell it out I am a copping, otherwise modified, thing doer.

This is in direct contrast with your previous claim, in which you state that you did not use your other role power yet. If copping is a odified, you'd have to use it together with your other modifier.

I'm not sure what the game plan is here, but I don't buy this for one second.

I don't think that's how it works.  I think if you're, say, a Copping Doctor, then you can both Cop and Doctor, not that your Doctor ability also Cops. 

[faust]

Also you take that rule out of context. The modifiers themselves can be roles.

Also this. True, but you claimed 2 roles with 2 modifiers. That does not fit with the 1 role, 2 modifiers rule unless you counted one thing as both role and modifier, which doesn't make a lot of sense, also because you said you had 2 specific modifiers modifying your 2 roles...

I mean, do you really expect me to believe all this?

[faust]

Also you take that rule out of context. The modifiers themselves can be roles.

For example, my cop ability comes in the form of a "copping" modifier. The role power itself is a modifier. I suppose if you want me to spell it out I am a copping, otherwise modified, thing doer.

This is in direct contrast with your previous claim, in which you state that you did not use your other role power yet. If copping is a odified, you'd have to use it together with your other modifier.

I'm not sure what the game plan is here, but I don't buy this for one second.

I don't think that's how it works.  I think if you're, say, a Copping Doctor, then you can both Cop and Doctor, not that your Doctor ability also Cops.

Really? That's not how I would read that at all...

[XerxesPraelor]

Also you take that rule out of context. The modifiers themselves can be roles.

For example, my cop ability comes in the form of a "copping" modifier. The role power itself is a modifier. I suppose if you want me to spell it out I am a copping, otherwise modified, thing doer.

This is in direct contrast with your previous claim, in which you state that you did not use your other role power yet. If copping is a odified, you'd have to use it together with your other modifier.

I'm not sure what the game plan is here, but I don't buy this for one second.

I don't think that's how it works.  I think if you're, say, a Copping Doctor, then you can both Cop and Doctor, not that your Doctor ability also Cops. 

I can confirm that it is how it works.

[Witherweaver]

Also you take that rule out of context. The modifiers themselves can be roles.

For example, my cop ability comes in the form of a "copping" modifier. The role power itself is a modifier. I suppose if you want me to spell it out I am a copping, otherwise modified, thing doer.

This is in direct contrast with your previous claim, in which you state that you did not use your other role power yet. If copping is a odified, you'd have to use it together with your other modifier.

I'm not sure what the game plan is here, but I don't buy this for one second.

I don't think that's how it works.  I think if you're, say, a Copping Doctor, then you can both Cop and Doctor, not that your Doctor ability also Cops.

Really? That's not how I would read that at all...

What if you were, say, a Doctoring Mason?

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.4

witherweaver (2): pps, Hydrad
Hydrad (1): iguanaiguana
Roadrunner (1): WW
PPS (2): faust, Xerxes

Not Voting (4): EgorK, Ampharos, Jimmmmm, RR

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

[pingpongsam]

Also you take that rule out of context. The modifiers themselves can be roles.

For example, my cop ability comes in the form of a "copping" modifier. The role power itself is a modifier. I suppose if you want me to spell it out I am a copping, otherwise modified, thing doer.

This is in direct contrast with your previous claim, in which you state that you did not use your other role power yet. If copping is a odified, you'd have to use it together with your other modifier.

I'm not sure what the game plan is here, but I don't buy this for one second.

I don't think that's how it works.  I think if you're, say, a Copping Doctor, then you can both Cop and Doctor, not that your Doctor ability also Cops.

Really? That's not how I would read that at all...

Yes, this, right, here. I am two things with a modifier in between.

[pingpongsam]

I guess the next line of thought will be that of WW flips scum I must have bussed him, right?

[Witherweaver]

I'm not scum!

[faust]

I can confirm that it is how it works.

Okay, my bad. It's a weird design choice though, because the modifiers aren't actually modifiers. I dislike that logic has been sacrificed in favor of uniformity.

[faust]

The point still stands that PPS clearly stated that he has two role, and each of them has a modifier attached. Then he said he's a Copping whatever. There is no modifier attached to Copping.

[Witherweaver]

I can't tell if XP is saying he's confirming what Faust said or what I propose. 

[faust]

I guess the next line of thought will be that of WW flips scum I must have bussed him, right?

It doesn't matter since you should flip scum first.

[faust]

I can't tell if XP is saying he's confirming what Faust said or what I propose.

I see that I may have read that wrong. Xerxes, please clarify?

[XerxesPraelor]

I mean if I target someone with my role, then its modifier, which is a role, has to be on the same person.

[pingpongsam]

The point still stands that PPS clearly stated that he has two role, and each of them has a modifier attached. Then he said he's a Copping whatever. There is no modifier attached to Copping.

You are technically correct. I am, however, a modified thing doer and if you knew what thing was and how it was modified you could exploit the copping which is to say the copping is limited by the thing doing which I have yet to actually do. Also, if you knew the modifier you could exploit the thing doing itself which would effectively exploit the copping since you now know about the copping. All of this is to say it would really neutralize me to claim so I am not doing it even at L-1. Should I be lynched then Town can be sad after the fact because they will be just as sad when I claim and I am left alive and neutered.

[iguanaiguana]

Unless you are a voteless copping whatever, you are not neutered until you are dead.

I'd rather have you claim and then get killed for being an IC than have to lynch you because you are stubborn.

[faust]

Unless you are a voteless copping whatever, you are not neutered until you are dead.

I'd rather have you claim and then get killed for being an IC than have to lynch you because you are stubborn.

"Being an IC?" PPS is a confirmed liar, man.

[Roadrunner7671]

This is real tough. My lynching goes like this though: WW>Faust>PPS

[Witherweaver]

The point still stands that PPS clearly stated that he has two role, and each of them has a modifier attached. Then he said he's a Copping whatever. There is no modifier attached to Copping.

You are technically correct. I am, however, a modified thing doer and if you knew what thing was and how it was modified you could exploit the copping which is to say the copping is limited by the thing doing which I have yet to actually do. Also, if you knew the modifier you could exploit the thing doing itself which would effectively exploit the copping since you now know about the copping. All of this is to say it would really neutralize me to claim so I am not doing it even at L-1. Should I be lynched then Town can be sad after the fact because they will be just as sad when I claim and I am left alive and neutered.

Does anything in your role  help to explain your Jimmmm result?

[faust]

This is real tough. My lynching goes like this though: WW>Faust>PPS

Do you also have reasons, or are such things below you?

[Roadrunner7671]

This is real tough. My lynching goes like this though: WW>Faust>PPS

Do you also have reasons, or are such things below you?

PPS's claim for WW.
Faust is acting different than in Switch.
PPS could be fake claiming.
Plus a gut feeling, as if that mattered.

[pingpongsam]

The point still stands that PPS clearly stated that he has two role, and each of them has a modifier attached. Then he said he's a Copping whatever. There is no modifier attached to Copping.

You are technically correct. I am, however, a modified thing doer and if you knew what thing was and how it was modified you could exploit the copping which is to say the copping is limited by the thing doing which I have yet to actually do. Also, if you knew the modifier you could exploit the thing doing itself which would effectively exploit the copping since you now know about the copping. All of this is to say it would really neutralize me to claim so I am not doing it even at L-1. Should I be lynched then Town can be sad after the fact because they will be just as sad when I claim and I am left alive and neutered.

Does anything in your role  help to explain your Jimmmm result?

No. It occurs to me that Jimmmmm has town and anti town roles. I suppose x y survivor where x or y is townish is a possibility.

He says that he does not have multiple roles and cannot explain the results. Either he is hiding or someone did something completely funky to me that night. I think it far more likely he is hiding something.

[Witherweaver]

But you said you're a straight up Cop.  You're not detecting "townish" role, you're detecting Town or Not Town, right?

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Ping Pong Sam

To get my vote off of you, you need to give me a full claim and a long explanation that actually makes sense.

If you don't, and you flip town, the only thing I will be sad about is how badly you played.

[XerxesPraelor]

If you don't, and you flip town, the only thing I will be sad about is how badly you played.

Come on, that's mean.

[XerxesPraelor]

This is real tough. My lynching goes like this though: WW>Faust>PPS

Do you also have reasons, or are such things below you?

PPS's claim for WW.
Faust is acting different than in Switch.
PPS could be fake claiming.
Plus a gut feeling, as if that mattered.

Why would PPS fake claiming make him more likely to be town?

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: Ping Pong Sam

To get my vote off of you, you need to give me a full claim and a long explanation that actually makes sense.

If you don't, and you flip town, the only thing I will be sad about is how badly you played.

You're like...heartless.

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.5

witherweaver (2): pps, Hydrad
Roadrunner (1): WW
PPS (3): faust, Xerxes, iguanaiguana

Not Voting (4): EgorK, Ampharos, Jimmmmm, RR

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

[faust]

This is real tough. My lynching goes like this though: WW>Faust>PPS

Do you also have reasons, or are such things below you?

PPS's claim for WW.
Faust is acting different than in Switch.
PPS could be fake claiming.
Plus a gut feeling, as if that mattered.

How am I acting different than in Switch?

Not that that actually mattered, right? Someone has a town result on me.

PPS MUST be fake claiming.

[Roadrunner7671]

C'mon Faust, would you rather get lynched or NKed?

[Ampharos]

I'm liable to believe PPS is town.  The game he's playing is too darn dangerous to be scum, imo.

Faust is still also town to me.

WW also reads town to me at the moment. 

EgorK is likely town. 

Jimmmm is cruising under the radar.

Hydrad, Xerxes, and iguana I have no idea on.   I would wager at least one is scum, possibly the other(s) remaining are in there as well.

Vote: Xerxes.  (I could be forgetting some good reason we aren't voting for him, but I searched for one and couldn't find any.)

[Ampharos]

Whoops.

Vote: Xerxes

[Roadrunner7671]

I wasn't good enough to make a Pokčmon read list 

[pingpongsam]

But you said you're a straight up Cop.  You're not detecting "townish" role, you're detecting Town or Not Town, right?

Yes, the cop investigation returns guilty or not guilty which equates to win condition is town or not. Jimmmmm returned both results.

[Ampharos]

Crap. I had you on there initially, then erased you for some reason 

I was going to throw you in with Hydrad, Xerxes, and iguana, but I'd lean you a little more town then them.  Maybe iguana can have a little town cred too.  But like a couple molecules of it.  That's all.

[faust]

I'm liable to believe PPS is town.  The game he's playing is too darn dangerous to be scum, imo.

Faust is still also town to me.

WW also reads town to me at the moment. 

EgorK is likely town. 

Jimmmm is cruising under the radar.

Hydrad, Xerxes, and iguana I have no idea on.   I would wager at least one is scum, possibly the other(s) remaining are in there as well.

Vote: Xerxes.  (I could be forgetting some good reason we aren't voting for him, but I searched for one and couldn't find any.)

This reads list does not make the faintest amount of sense.

[Witherweaver]

But you said you're a straight up Cop.  You're not detecting "townish" role, you're detecting Town or Not Town, right?

Yes, the cop investigation returns guilty or not guilty which equates to win condition is town or not. Jimmmmm returned both results.

I don't even think that's possible.

[Witherweaver]

Is there any role that forks? Like a redirector, except the original target is hit as well?

[Hydrad]

oh i'm here now... you guys sure talked alot while I was at work.

catching up.

[Hydrad]

I am still on board with possibly lynching WW. However, before that I'd like to hear from Hydrad. I have night info that leads me to suspect he may be scum.

Vote: hydrad

oh ya. I don't know how much you know but no I did not try to kill anyone last night. nor have the power to. I don't know if I should claim much more though or what you want me to do to respond to this.

[iguanaiguana]

I am still on board with possibly lynching WW. However, before that I'd like to hear from Hydrad. I have night info that leads me to suspect he may be scum.

Vote: hydrad

oh ya. I don't know how much you know but no I did not try to kill anyone last night. nor have the power to. I don't know if I should claim much more though or what you want me to do to respond to this.

I don't know why I thought I would get anything more than this ><

Can everyone tell that this is my first game?

lol

Also,

Sorry PPS for being a jerk.

[Hydrad]

I am still on board with possibly lynching WW. However, before that I'd like to hear from Hydrad. I have night info that leads me to suspect he may be scum.

Vote: hydrad

oh ya. I don't know how much you know but no I did not try to kill anyone last night. nor have the power to. I don't know if I should claim much more though or what you want me to do to respond to this.

I don't know why I thought I would get anything more than this ><

Can everyone tell that this is my first game?

lol

Also,

Sorry PPS for being a jerk.

I think your doing good so far. Right now I have a town read on you also.

[iguanaiguana]

That would be because I am town

[Hydrad]

That would be because I am town

also just curious... maybe I shouldn't say this but I knew you targeted me. am I supposed to know that you targeted me?

[iguanaiguana]

That would be because I am town

also just curious... maybe I shouldn't say this but I knew you targeted me. am I supposed to know that you targeted me?

Yeah 

[Hydrad]

That would be because I am town

also just curious... maybe I shouldn't say this but I knew you targeted me. am I supposed to know that you targeted me?

Yeah 

hokay cool

[Roadrunner7671]

Where'd the conversation go?

[XerxesPraelor]

I think we should lynch PPS. If he's town, then lynch WW. Pretty simple.

[iguanaiguana]

Where'd the conversation go?

We just chillin for now 













Later tonight mafia gunna murder us all 

[pingpongsam]

I think we should lynch PPS. If he's town, then lynch WW. Pretty simple.

I think we should lynch WW today because I copped him as Guilty. When he flips something not-Town then my town status is confirmed. Most likely I die tonight so you get what you want, anyhow (me, dead). If I don't die then I'm practically IC and hopefully I don't get otherwise blocked on copping and we have a fairly easy path to victory. Not to mention I have an awesome complementary skill that goes with the copping.

Between the lynch order I am seeing a far higher reward to be had by putting me after WW. If you lynch me now you are certain to lose town today and probably tonight as well only finally get a scum tomorrow.

[pingpongsam]

Ask yourselves. If PPS is scum why would he bet it all on a single mislynch when his death is quick and certain the next day?

[XerxesPraelor]

That is a good question - I feel like if WW flips town you could protest that your role just messed up again like with Jimmmmm and so your death would not be certain. I grant the general point though.

There is also the fact that your role as claimed "2 roles, each with one modifier" is not a possible role, as that's 4 different things, so you're probably lying about your role for whatever reason.

[pingpongsam]

Really, the more I think about it, I am very distrustful of anyone who seeks to lynch me today. As a cop I should let town know when I hit scum The odds of me getting killed tonight for doing so are astronomically good but the trade off is we have a solid opportunity to hit scum today, right now. To turn on me and lynch me instead is a mathematically poor decision because my fate is sealed regardless of the circumstance. The only sound reason for lynching me today is to get 2 townies dead before scum is definitely killed tomorrow.

[iguanaiguana]

Now you're really starting to sound like scum!

[pingpongsam]

Okay, another question; assuming that my unrevealed role is truly worth keeping as town but would be largely neutralized if revealed, is it worthwhile for me to claim it today just to keep town from making what is already clearly a poor decision? I'm seeing a vote run-up to force the claim as being scummy in and of itself.

[pingpongsam]

Now you're really starting to sound like scum!

For asking sensible questions?

[Witherweaver]

Based on you getting an impossible result on Jimmmmm and a wrong result on me, I don't exactly trust your Copping.  It doesn't mean you're scum, though.

[iguanaiguana]

You know what I think. I do wish other people would give their opinions on this.

I don't see why scum would be pushing town!PPS to do a full claim though. If you really are town and WW is really scum, then what you stand to gain by doing a full claim is one town member not lynched, one scum member lynched, today. It's a net gain to the most likely alternative (the opposite of that), even if it neuters your ability.

Scum wants to see town!PPS lynched, and they don't want to have to bother with killing town!PPS at night, so scum wouldn't be pushing you to claim at all.

This is my thinking, at least.

[iguanaiguana]

What really bothers me here is that Witherweaver and PPS are both acting scummy, when it seems basically impossible that both of them are scum 

[pingpongsam]

Based on you getting an impossible result on Jimmmmm and a wrong result on me, I don't exactly trust your Copping.  It doesn't mean you're scum, though.

What makes you so certain it is an impossible result? I would be more suspect of a single result than dual results. What sort of power was I targeted with that would cause me to get two conflicting results on a person? A more likely scenario is Jimmmmm has town and anti-town roles. thus the result is really good. That is to say I am more inclined to doubt my result on WW than on Jimmmmm. Guess who was the only person who knew I was a cop before I investigated WW... yep, WW, himself. Do you think town!WW would then target me with his potential redirect power or swap power or whatever to confuse my results? No, town!WW would not. By the same token scum!WW might very well have done so but if that were the case I would not have turned up a Guilty result on him. Which strongly suggests the one person who knew I was cop did not do anything to tamper with my results. Which leaves any tampering up to random selection by someone else which is simply not that likely.

[XerxesPraelor]

Based on you getting an impossible result on Jimmmmm and a wrong result on me, I don't exactly trust your Copping.  It doesn't mean you're scum, though.

What makes you so certain it is an impossible result?

A person cannot be both scum and town.

[XerxesPraelor]

Actually, no I think I understand. Your role isn't actually a cop - it simply gives the result of whether a person's role is good for town or bad for town. But then why does your result on WW mean he's scum?

[XerxesPraelor]

Can you at least claim whether your role is actually an alignment cop or whether it's something else? Because you said before it was a strict cop, but if it is a strict cop, then getting contradictory results should be impossible.

[iguanaiguana]

Sure, but your total fiasco on day one of claiming you had a posting restriction and then taking it back could very well have made someone with a redirect role decide that you would make a perfectly great target. So acting like its unlikely that someone would target you for a redirect is ridiculous.

At the same time, Witherweaver is sitting here acting like somehow you are still likely to flip town, making me think that scum!WW is just prepping a story for when we lynch you and you do flip with a town copping role. At that point he can say, look guys! I thought he was town! Don't lynch me, it was just a bad result!

[XerxesPraelor]

At the same time, Witherweaver is sitting here acting like somehow you are still likely to flip town, making me think that scum!WW is just prepping a story for when we lynch you and you do flip with a town copping role. At that point he can say, look guys! I thought he was town! Don't lynch me, it was just a bad result!

This.

[Witherweaver]

Based on you getting an impossible result on Jimmmmm and a wrong result on me, I don't exactly trust your Copping.  It doesn't mean you're scum, though.

What makes you so certain it is an impossible result? I would be more suspect of a single result than dual results. What sort of power was I targeted with that would cause me to get two conflicting results on a person? A more likely scenario is Jimmmmm has town and anti-town roles. thus the result is really good. That is to say I am more inclined to doubt my result on WW than on Jimmmmm. Guess who was the only person who knew I was a cop before I investigated WW... yep, WW, himself. Do you think town!WW would then target me with his potential redirect power or swap power or whatever to confuse my results? No, town!WW would not. By the same token scum!WW might very well have done so but if that were the case I would not have turned up a Guilty result on him. Which strongly suggests the one person who knew I was cop did not do anything to tamper with my results. Which leaves any tampering up to random selection by someone else which is simply not that likely.

What do you mean  have town and antitown roles?  You either have the town wincon or you don't.  I don't believe you can have the town wincon and another wincon in a normal game.

[Witherweaver]

Sure, but your total fiasco on day one of claiming you had a posting restriction and then taking it back could very well have made someone with a redirect role decide that you would make a perfectly great target. So acting like its unlikely that someone would target you for a redirect is ridiculous.

At the same time, Witherweaver is sitting here acting like somehow you are still likely to flip town, making me think that scum!WW is just prepping a story for when we lynch you and you do flip with a town copping role. At that point he can say, look guys! I thought he was town! Don't lynch me, it was just a bad result!

Why are you certain he's scum?  He's claimed one result that doesn't make any sense and one result that's just wrong... what's his scum endgame?

[iguanaiguana]

At the same time, Witherweaver is sitting here acting like somehow you are still likely to flip town, making me think that scum!WW is just prepping a story for when we lynch you and you do flip with a town copping role. At that point he can say, look guys! I thought he was town! Don't lynch me, it was just a bad result!

This.

I know, RIGHT?

SO:

This is what I say to town!PPS

You are playing in such a way that is likely to get you lynched and your lynch target off the hook! WHY?

[iguanaiguana]

endgame?

Right now I'm crying a silent tear for the dying hope that anyone playing right now actually has an endgame.

[iguanaiguana]

Ok, again. Sorry.

If people can't tell, I'm a little frustrated.

[faust]

What really bothers me here is that Witherweaver and PPS are both acting scummy, when it seems basically impossible that both of them are scum 

Well, basically impossible is a long shot. There are a lot of ways this could play out.

- they could be partners and have decided to go 1 vs 1 to give the other part of the team lots of towncred.
- they could be scum on opposing teams
- they could be scum on the same team, but one of them is a Traitor and so they don't know they're on the same team

In both latter cases, PPS could legitimately have some sort of result on WW. He's still lying though.

[faust]

Sure, but your total fiasco on day one of claiming you had a posting restriction and then taking it back could very well have made someone with a redirect role decide that you would make a perfectly great target. So acting like its unlikely that someone would target you for a redirect is ridiculous.

At the same time, Witherweaver is sitting here acting like somehow you are still likely to flip town, making me think that scum!WW is just prepping a story for when we lynch you and you do flip with a town copping role. At that point he can say, look guys! I thought he was town! Don't lynch me, it was just a bad result!

Why are you certain he's scum?  He's claimed one result that doesn't make any sense and one result that's just wrong... what's his scum endgame?

He lied. Isn't that good enough a reason?

[Witherweaver]

Sure, but your total fiasco on day one of claiming you had a posting restriction and then taking it back could very well have made someone with a redirect role decide that you would make a perfectly great target. So acting like its unlikely that someone would target you for a redirect is ridiculous.

At the same time, Witherweaver is sitting here acting like somehow you are still likely to flip town, making me think that scum!WW is just prepping a story for when we lynch you and you do flip with a town copping role. At that point he can say, look guys! I thought he was town! Don't lynch me, it was just a bad result!

Why are you certain he's scum?  He's claimed one result that doesn't make any sense and one result that's just wrong... what's his scum endgame?

He lied. Isn't that good enough a reason?

Have you met PPS before?

[faust]

Have you met PPS before?

I don't remember town!PPS fakeclaiming on purpose. Care to show me a game where he did that?

[faust]

It would be very funny indeed if scum WW/PPS cooked this up to get WW lynched because that in some way benefits them, and now WW is desperately trying to get lynched over his scumpartner.

[Witherweaver]

Have you met PPS before?

I don't remember town!PPS fakeclaiming on purpose. Care to show me a game where he did that?

Well, I don't know about fake claiming, but certainly crazy claiming a la Dice Mafia.

[iguanaiguana]

Two scum seems unlikely with the whole neighborizer thing though. WW put me in a neighborhood with him N2 and apparently put PPS in the neighborhood N1.

Could have been made up I guess but it seemed pretty authentic.

[Witherweaver]

I was thinking PPS getting mislynched in the last game he played had something to do with claiming, but I guess that was me in that game.

[faust]

Have you met PPS before?

I don't remember town!PPS fakeclaiming on purpose. Care to show me a game where he did that?

Well, I don't know about fake claiming, but certainly crazy claiming a la Dice Mafia.

So you have nothing to back up your read. Cool.

[Witherweaver]

Have you met PPS before?

I don't remember town!PPS fakeclaiming on purpose. Care to show me a game where he did that?

Well, I don't know about fake claiming, but certainly crazy claiming a la Dice Mafia.

So you have nothing to back up your read. Cool.

After our neighborhood conversation, I thought he was town.  Day 2 didn't change that; I thought his statement about Jimmmm was due to continued confusion on what his role actually gave.

Now I don't really know.  But what I see is a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense.

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.6

witherweaver (2): pps, Hydrad
Roadrunner (1): WW
PPS (3): faust, Xerxes, iguanaiguana
Xerxes (1): Ampharos

Not Voting (3): EgorK, Jimmmmm, RR

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

[XerxesPraelor]

Have you met PPS before?

I don't remember town!PPS fakeclaiming on purpose. Care to show me a game where he did that?

Well, I don't know about fake claiming, but certainly crazy claiming a la Dice Mafia.

So you have nothing to back up your read. Cool.

After our neighborhood conversation, I thought he was town.  Day 2 didn't change that; I thought his statement about Jimmmm was due to continued confusion on what his role actually gave.

Now I don't really know.  But what I see is a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense.

Care to explain your vote on Roadrunner?

[Witherweaver]

He's scummy; I've talked about this.  The faux concern for wagons really won me over.

[pingpongsam]

Actually, no I think I understand. Your role isn't actually a cop - it simply gives the result of whether a person's role is good for town or bad for town. But then why does your result on WW mean he's scum?

Guilty means this person's win condition is not in line with Town. Not Guilty means this person's win condition is inline with town.
Survivor looks like a role which has both attributes. Someone else suggested this possibility and it certainly made sense to me. If Jimmmmm is a survivor I can see why he would not want to claim it and also why there's no necessity to lynch him. It does however make him a decent lynch candidate. I say the result is informative while everyone else seems to dismiss it as obviously tampered.
It looks to me like there can be werewolves, cultists and serial killers in the game, so I think with some funky role combination getting dual results is well within reason.

[pingpongsam]

At the same time, Witherweaver is sitting here acting like somehow you are still likely to flip town, making me think that scum!WW is just prepping a story for when we lynch you and you do flip with a town copping role. At that point he can say, look guys! I thought he was town! Don't lynch me, it was just a bad result!

So, you do you see exactly how this is his best scum gambit today now that he is outed, then!

[Ampharos]

Can you at least claim whether your role is actually an alignment cop or whether it's something else? Because you said before it was a strict cop, but if it is a strict cop, then getting contradictory results should be impossible.

This plz!  PPS, you're confusing me... 

[pingpongsam]

At the same time, Witherweaver is sitting here acting like somehow you are still likely to flip town, making me think that scum!WW is just prepping a story for when we lynch you and you do flip with a town copping role. At that point he can say, look guys! I thought he was town! Don't lynch me, it was just a bad result!

This.

I know, RIGHT?

SO:

This is what I say to town!PPS

You are playing in such a way that is likely to get you lynched and your lynch target off the hook! WHY?

How is immediately claiming a cop result, voting that result, maintaining that vote, and consistently arguing for this lynch playing to get my lynch target off the hook?
My only issue is the remote possibility my results are bad because if so I made us kill a townie and then I get killed which will be terrible. But I feel good about the result so I maintain that killing WW is good for everyone but scum. Claiming the result was certain death for me no matter how I slice it. Are you insinuating I should not have claimed the result?

[iguanaiguana]

I am done trying to talk reason to someone who sounds more and more like he is lying. It is not good for my mental health.

I believe we should see whether you are town or not by the end of the day. I've heard enough to know that my vote at least will not move again.

[pingpongsam]

Can you at least claim whether your role is actually an alignment cop or whether it's something else? Because you said before it was a strict cop, but if it is a strict cop, then getting contradictory results should be impossible.

This plz!  PPS, you're confusing me... 

The role power/modifier/whatever you want to call it is "Copping". "Copping" is the first word in a 3 word role. When I first got the results on Jimmmmm I queried the mod about what the "Guilty" and "Not Guilty" verdicts meant I got an answer that specifically used the word "alignment" So, yes, it is an alignment tell. AFAIK we can't quote mod text so I think I've taken this as far as I can because there really wasn't much at all left to the interchange.

[Witherweaver]

Actually, no I think I understand. Your role isn't actually a cop - it simply gives the result of whether a person's role is good for town or bad for town. But then why does your result on WW mean he's scum?

Guilty means this person's win condition is not in line with Town. Not Guilty means this person's win condition is inline with town.
Survivor looks like a role which has both attributes. Someone else suggested this possibility and it certainly made sense to me. If Jimmmmm is a survivor I can see why he would not want to claim it and also why there's no necessity to lynch him. It does however make him a decent lynch candidate. I say the result is informative while everyone else seems to dismiss it as obviously tampered.
It looks to me like there can be werewolves, cultists and serial killers in the game, so I think with some funky role combination getting dual results is well within reason.

If you Cop a Survivor you should certainly get a Guilty (i.e., not Town) result. 

[pingpongsam]

I am done trying to talk reason to someone who sounds more and more like he is lying. It is not good for my mental health.

I believe we should see whether you are town or not by the end of the day. I've heard enough to know that my vote at least will not move again.

You're not talking reason. You said I am playing in such a way that would get my lynch target off the hook. You refuse to indicate what not doing so would look like that isn't exactly what I am doing.

[pingpongsam]

Actually, no I think I understand. Your role isn't actually a cop - it simply gives the result of whether a person's role is good for town or bad for town. But then why does your result on WW mean he's scum?

Guilty means this person's win condition is not in line with Town. Not Guilty means this person's win condition is inline with town.
Survivor looks like a role which has both attributes. Someone else suggested this possibility and it certainly made sense to me. If Jimmmmm is a survivor I can see why he would not want to claim it and also why there's no necessity to lynch him. It does however make him a decent lynch candidate. I say the result is informative while everyone else seems to dismiss it as obviously tampered.
It looks to me like there can be werewolves, cultists and serial killers in the game, so I think with some funky role combination getting dual results is well within reason.

If you Cop a Survivor you should certainly get a Guilty (i.e., not Town) result.

Okay, so what if he is a Seraph Knight Survivor?

[faust]

Actually, no I think I understand. Your role isn't actually a cop - it simply gives the result of whether a person's role is good for town or bad for town. But then why does your result on WW mean he's scum?

Guilty means this person's win condition is not in line with Town. Not Guilty means this person's win condition is inline with town.
Survivor looks like a role which has both attributes. Someone else suggested this possibility and it certainly made sense to me. If Jimmmmm is a survivor I can see why he would not want to claim it and also why there's no necessity to lynch him. It does however make him a decent lynch candidate. I say the result is informative while everyone else seems to dismiss it as obviously tampered.
It looks to me like there can be werewolves, cultists and serial killers in the game, so I think with some funky role combination getting dual results is well within reason.

If you Cop a Survivor you should certainly get a Guilty (i.e., not Town) result.

Then the result would be Guilty, because he's not town-aligned.
Okay, so what if he is a Seraph Knight Survivor?

[faust]

-.-
This is my answer:
Then the result would be Guilty, because he's not town-aligned.

[pingpongsam]

Actually, no I think I understand. Your role isn't actually a cop - it simply gives the result of whether a person's role is good for town or bad for town. But then why does your result on WW mean he's scum?

Guilty means this person's win condition is not in line with Town. Not Guilty means this person's win condition is inline with town.
Survivor looks like a role which has both attributes. Someone else suggested this possibility and it certainly made sense to me. If Jimmmmm is a survivor I can see why he would not want to claim it and also why there's no necessity to lynch him. It does however make him a decent lynch candidate. I say the result is informative while everyone else seems to dismiss it as obviously tampered.
It looks to me like there can be werewolves, cultists and serial killers in the game, so I think with some funky role combination getting dual results is well within reason.

If you Cop a Survivor you should certainly get a Guilty (i.e., not Town) result.

Also you cannot know this for certainty. You know why? Because I asked exactly this question to the mod and got the rules shown to me that explained how such things will not be revealed. So, if I can't know it neither can you.

[Witherweaver]

Actually, no I think I understand. Your role isn't actually a cop - it simply gives the result of whether a person's role is good for town or bad for town. But then why does your result on WW mean he's scum?

Guilty means this person's win condition is not in line with Town. Not Guilty means this person's win condition is inline with town.
Survivor looks like a role which has both attributes. Someone else suggested this possibility and it certainly made sense to me. If Jimmmmm is a survivor I can see why he would not want to claim it and also why there's no necessity to lynch him. It does however make him a decent lynch candidate. I say the result is informative while everyone else seems to dismiss it as obviously tampered.
It looks to me like there can be werewolves, cultists and serial killers in the game, so I think with some funky role combination getting dual results is well within reason.

If you Cop a Survivor you should certainly get a Guilty (i.e., not Town) result.

Okay, so what if he is a Seraph Knight Survivor?

Seraph Knight does not give an alignment... why would you even think that it would?

A Seraph knight Survivor would have the Survivor win-con, which is explicitly not a Town win-con. Seraph Knight is just like a perma bodyguard. 

PPEs

[Witherweaver]

Actually, no I think I understand. Your role isn't actually a cop - it simply gives the result of whether a person's role is good for town or bad for town. But then why does your result on WW mean he's scum?

Guilty means this person's win condition is not in line with Town. Not Guilty means this person's win condition is inline with town.
Survivor looks like a role which has both attributes. Someone else suggested this possibility and it certainly made sense to me. If Jimmmmm is a survivor I can see why he would not want to claim it and also why there's no necessity to lynch him. It does however make him a decent lynch candidate. I say the result is informative while everyone else seems to dismiss it as obviously tampered.
It looks to me like there can be werewolves, cultists and serial killers in the game, so I think with some funky role combination getting dual results is well within reason.

If you Cop a Survivor you should certainly get a Guilty (i.e., not Town) result.

Also you cannot know this for certainty. You know why? Because I asked exactly this question to the mod and got the rules shown to me that explained how such things will not be revealed. So, if I can't know it neither can you.

Huh?  That's just standard Mafia.

[pingpongsam]

-.-
This is my answer:
Then the result would be Guilty, because he's not town-aligned.

When this game is over and you see that I wasn't lying will it cause you to question your godlike knowledge of setups in the future or will you forever assume you just have it all sorted out just perfectly?

[Witherweaver]

Why did you wait so long to propose this possible explanation?  When I asked you before, you said you didn't have any way to explain the result, but now you seem to say that you considered this Survivor thing before. 

[iguanaiguana]

I am done trying to talk reason to someone who sounds more and more like he is lying. It is not good for my mental health.

I believe we should see whether you are town or not by the end of the day. I've heard enough to know that my vote at least will not move again.

You're not talking reason. You said I am playing in such a way that would get my lynch target off the hook. You refuse to indicate what not doing so would look like that isn't exactly what I am doing.

 
You are ignoring all comments that point out inconsistencies in your story and logic, making subtle changes to your story as it is subjected to scrutiny, and maintaining that keeping most details of your story must be shrouded in secrecy for everyone else's good.

If you ARE town, these would be the the things that are getting your lynch target off the hook.

[Roadrunner7671]

He's scummy; I've talked about this.  The faux concern for wagons really won me over.

By trying to lynch me, you are not helping the town.
Therefore, scum or not, you're not really helping the town.

[Jimmmmm]

Checking in.

[pingpongsam]

Why did you wait so long to propose this possible explanation?  When I asked you before, you said you didn't have any way to explain the result, but now you seem to say that you considered this Survivor thing before.

Hmm. Actually, RoadRunner through out the idea it could happen if Jimmmmm werre a Survivor when I first questioned how it could happen and I thought it was an obvious answer not only to me but everyone else at the time. At that point I took a look at other possible configurations and it looked like there could be a few. I actually asked Jimmmmm to explain the result and he said he could not which is when I became suspicious of him. this is all well documented within the game so why are you trying to spin it as all of a sudden suspicious behavior for me?

[Jimmmmm]

I have exactly 1 wincon and it is the Town wincon.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, I see, I was misremembering this post, or I just didn't fully read it the first time:

The point still stands that PPS clearly stated that he has two role, and each of them has a modifier attached. Then he said he's a Copping whatever. There is no modifier attached to Copping.

You are technically correct. I am, however, a modified thing doer and if you knew what thing was and how it was modified you could exploit the copping which is to say the copping is limited by the thing doing which I have yet to actually do. Also, if you knew the modifier you could exploit the thing doing itself which would effectively exploit the copping since you now know about the copping. All of this is to say it would really neutralize me to claim so I am not doing it even at L-1. Should I be lynched then Town can be sad after the fact because they will be just as sad when I claim and I am left alive and neutered.

Does anything in your role  help to explain your Jimmmm result?

No. It occurs to me that Jimmmmm has town and anti town roles. I suppose x y survivor where x or y is townish is a possibility.

He says that he does not have multiple roles and cannot explain the results. Either he is hiding or someone did something completely funky to me that night. I think it far more likely he is hiding something.

[pingpongsam]

I am done trying to talk reason to someone who sounds more and more like he is lying. It is not good for my mental health.

I believe we should see whether you are town or not by the end of the day. I've heard enough to know that my vote at least will not move again.

You're not talking reason. You said I am playing in such a way that would get my lynch target off the hook. You refuse to indicate what not doing so would look like that isn't exactly what I am doing.

 
You are ignoring all comments that point out inconsistencies in your story and logic, making subtle changes to your story as it is subjected to scrutiny, and maintaining that keeping most details of your story must be shrouded in secrecy for everyone else's good.

If you ARE town, these would be the the things that are getting your lynch target off the hook.

I am not ignoring comments. I am making an incredible amount of responses to the point I am outposting all other players by some significant margin. I have not changed my story, I have simply revealed more and more context because, oh yeah, that's right, I am responding to comments. And yes I maintain that keeping my role a secret is in Town's best interest. On any other planet it is considered scummy to keep pressing for this information; it's called role fishing. But apparently I am the scum bag for holding out while everyone keeps their roles to themselves.

For crying out loud I have copped a person as being Guilty. No one has proposed, with any evidence whatsoever, the mechanism by which my result should be bad but simply assume it must be. I have never seen such foolish behavior around a cop result. You all realize that if what I say is truth I am dead man walking already and if I am lying it comes out the second WW flips? I am failing to see the scum narrative in my play but rather just some assumed magical thinking that I must be scum because I didn't full claim D1.

[Witherweaver]

Actually  you're claiming to have copped two people as Guilty. 

[pingpongsam]

Lynch WW today and if I survive the night (unlikely) I will full claim first thing tomorrow. In fact, I can very likely follow up by demonstrating my heretofore unrevealed power tomorrow.

[Roadrunner7671]

I sort of want to lynch WW.

[Witherweaver]

I sort of want to lynch WW.

Of course you do.

[pingpongsam]

WW has never been lynched, right?

[Witherweaver]

Like, this game?

[pingpongsam]

Like, this game?

I thought in the last game someone said you have never been lynched.

[pingpongsam]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

[faust]

-.-
This is my answer:
Then the result would be Guilty, because he's not town-aligned.

When this game is over and you see that I wasn't lying will it cause you to question your godlike knowledge of setups in the future or will you forever assume you just have it all sorted out just perfectly?

The latter.

[Jimmmmm]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

You're the one with a dodgy claimed result.

[faust]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

The mechanism of your brain telling you to spice up your fakeclaim.

[Witherweaver]

Like, this game?

I thought in the last game someone said you have never been lynched.

No, I've been lynched before. 

[pingpongsam]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

The mechanism of your brain telling you to spice up your fakeclaim.

So, you assert that the dual result was all part of a fake claim? To what end does that go?
The fact is I got a dual result which would be insanely asinine to claim otherwise. You say this part of a fakeclaim but can't explain the narrative by which that would make any sense.

[pingpongsam]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

You're the one with a dodgy claimed result.

What kind of rhetorical response is that? If you are so certain that my claim result is tampered with then describe the means by which it is tampered with. If you cannot do that then quit asserting that it is tampered with.

[pingpongsam]

This could be useful, you know, to say something like, well, we obviously have a such and such role in the game in order for PPS to have gotten such a result. Be it a Jimmmmm role or a tampering type of role. But no, the conclusion is automatically that I have voluntarily made up something that is completely untenable for no good reason at all as zero narrative can be provided for doing such a thing. And then, you take such failed reasoning and use it as an excuse to dismiss a much more useful cop result.

[XerxesPraelor]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

You're the one with a dodgy claimed result.

"you're the one" is a completely illogical argument.

[Jimmmmm]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

You're the one with a dodgy claimed result.

What kind of rhetorical response is that? If you are so certain that my claim result is tampered with then describe the means by which it is tampered with. If you cannot do that then quit asserting that it is tampered with.

Right, I'll start assuming that's it's a lie then. The onus is on you to explain your result, not anyone else.

[faust]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

The mechanism of your brain telling you to spice up your fakeclaim.

So, you assert that the dual result was all part of a fake claim? To what end does that go?
The fact is I got a dual result which would be insanely asinine to claim otherwise. You say this part of a fakeclaim but can't explain the narrative by which that would make any sense.

WIFOM.

[Jimmmmm]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

You're the one with a dodgy claimed result.

"you're the one" is a completely illogical argument.

You're saying that multiple people have dodgy claimed results?

[Jimmmmm]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

The mechanism of your brain telling you to spice up your fakeclaim.

So, you assert that the dual result was all part of a fake claim? To what end does that go?
The fact is I got a dual result which would be insanely asinine to claim otherwise. You say this part of a fakeclaim but can't explain the narrative by which that would make any sense.

So you don't want people thinking the result was tampered with, but you also don't want people to think you're lying? What exactly do you want me to think?

[XerxesPraelor]

If you mean to say he isn't credible because he has a dodgy claimed result, say that.

PPE

[Jimmmmm]

If you mean to say he isn't credible because he has a dodgy claimed result, say that.

PPE

I'm saying it makes no sense for him to demand an explanation from others for his weird and (known to me) incorrect result.

[iguanaiguana]

A thought I had earlier: to those who seem so certain that my dual result on Jimmmmm must be a tampered result... since you are so certain... what is the mechanism by which that occurred, specifically?

The mechanism of your brain telling you to spice up your fakeclaim.

So, you assert that the dual result was all part of a fake claim? To what end does that go?
The fact is I got a dual result which would be insanely asinine to claim otherwise. You say this part of a fakeclaim but can't explain the narrative by which that would make any sense.

The end of making up a completely absurd story is to pull out the excuse 'it can't be made up because it's too crazy,' like you just did.

[Jimmmmm]

I've always said that "There's no scum narrative" is not a valid rebuttal to "There's no Town narrative".

[Roadrunner7671]

Why can't we kill WW today and kill PPS tomorow if WW is town?

[iguanaiguana]

Why can't we kill WW today and kill PPS tomorow if WW is town?

1. Thats what PPS wants us to do.
2. You want to kill WW mainly because he's voting you.

[Roadrunner7671]

I also want to kill him because he is not helping the town, and PPS got a guilty result.

[iguanaiguana]

I also want to kill him because he is not helping the town, and PPS got a guilty result.

Actually its more likely that PPS is lying.

[Roadrunner7671]

I also want to kill him because he is not helping the town, and PPS got a guilty result.

Actually its more likely that PPS is lying.

How is it more likely? Is there a statistic?

[iguanaiguana]

I also want to kill him because he is not helping the town, and PPS got a guilty result.

Actually its more likely that PPS is lying.

How is it more likely? Is there a statistic?

Its reads based

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.7

witherweaver (2): pps, Hydrad
Roadrunner (1): WW
PPS (3): faust, Xerxes, iguanaiguana
Xerxes (1): Ampharos

Not Voting (3): EgorK, Jimmmmm, RR

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Day3 ends on November 16, 2015 at 9:30 forum time

[XerxesPraelor]

I also want to kill him because he is not helping the town, and PPS got a guilty result.

Then vote him.

[Roadrunner7671]

I also want to kill him because he is not helping the town, and PPS got a guilty result.

Then vote him.

I will vote in the morning after there is more discussion. I try not to throw votes around, that's no fun for the mods.

[EgorK]

Finally at home and had good night of sleep. Will need to reread all of D3 though

[faust]

I also want to kill him because he is not helping the town, and PPS got a guilty result.

Then vote him.

I will vote in the morning after there is more discussion. I try not to throw votes around, that's no fun for the mods.

As a mod, I disagree.

[faust]

I also want to kill him because he is not helping the town, and PPS got a guilty result.

Actually its more likely that PPS is lying.

How is it more likely? Is there a statistic?

Yes. PPS is 100% lying, WW is not.

[pingpongsam]

I'm pretty much done trying to defend what should not need defending.

Everyone demands a claim so you shall have it.

I am a Copping Absorbent Governor.

Each night I can cop for an alignment tell. N1 I copped Jimmmmm and received Guilty and Not Guilty for the result. N2 I copped WW and got guilty as a result.

Each night I can target a person and they are added to a lounging list of people I can then prevent a lynch on. That is, the votes have to cause a lynch and then I can cause the votes to reset for the day. This is why there was a substantial delay in the day ending.

If someone targets me with a non killing action I will take on whatever role power they targeted me with. This is at the expense of losing both my cop and governor powers that night. It resets my governor list when I revert back to my original role the next night.

Due to the wording and my unfamiliarity with the absorbing role I got things a bit confused and thought I had to be directly referenced (actually, targeted) in order to respond and in doing so said person was added to the list. I had all of that completely wrong and understood what I described above after a series of mod clarifications.

[pingpongsam]

Oh, yeah, N1 I targeted silverspawn because in light of the D1 flip I felt certain he was town and that he was a likely lynch candidate for D2. My power works post lynch, it cannot prevent a night kill. Scum killed e, his lover.

N2 I targeted Faust because I thought and still think he is likely town. So, right now I can reset a lynch on Faust.

[faust]

Yeah, uh... It's still not possible to target 2 different people with that role. And the role does in no way fit the "2 roles with 2 modifiers" thing. It's three roles if you want to express it like that at all.

Also, Governor is generally an anti-town power.

[faust]

If anyone targetted PPS at some point, that would probably be a good thing to claim.

[pingpongsam]

Yeah, uh... It's still not possible to target 2 different people with that role. And the role does in no way fit the "2 roles with 2 modifiers" thing. It's three roles if you want to express it like that at all.

Also, Governor is generally an anti-town power.

Whatever. Your whole argument just fell apart and you are grasping at straws now. I can cop and I can govern. Two separate targeting powers at night. Absorbing modifies both powers just as I asserted while trying to not make it too clear how I could be thwarted. I have 2 power roles and both are modified.

A town governor who has cop results is in no way an anti-town power.

[pingpongsam]

If anyone targetted PPS at some point, that would probably be a good thing to claim.

Oh, you mean to say you won't just go ahead and claim some crap to try and put your case back together?
Or are you just hoping scum claims something so I can be made to look a liar?

I have confirmed that if I absorb a power I will be notified. No one has targeted me the last 2 nights with a non-killing power.

[pingpongsam]

At this point I could confirm my status by resetting a lynch on faust or someone can target me tonight and I can confirm what I absorbed last night. So, do you guys really think I would just fakeclaim all this confirmable stuff just live one more miserable day? Can we please lynch WW, now?

[faust]

Yeah, uh... It's still not possible to target 2 different people with that role. And the role does in no way fit the "2 roles with 2 modifiers" thing. It's three roles if you want to express it like that at all.

Also, Governor is generally an anti-town power.

Whatever. Your whole argument just fell apart and you are grasping at straws now. I can cop and I can govern. Two separate targeting powers at night. Absorbing modifies both powers just as I asserted while trying to not make it too clear how I could be thwarted. I have 2 power roles and both are modified.

A town governor who has cop results is in no way an anti-town power.

I don't see how my argument fell apart at all...

You say you can cop and govern; why should we believe you? Xerxes stated clearly that he cannot use his role-modifier seperately, so you claiming you can is inconsistent with that. Absorbing arguably modifies the Governor since it resets the list, but really it does not modify "copping" in any way. Also, Absorber is a role unto itself and not a modifier.

You lied. You try to cover up now, and as expected you're doing a decent job, but this cannot undo that you A) claimed something earlier that you by now took back (i.e. that you have 2 roles with 2 modifiers) and B) that you claim your role works in a way that does not fit with the way someone else claims such a role would work.

[faust]

At this point I could confirm my status by resetting a lynch on faust or someone can target me tonight and I can confirm what I absorbed last night. So, do you guys really think I would just fakeclaim all this confirmable stuff just live one more miserable day? Can we please lynch WW, now?

Yeah, cool, let's try to get the conf!town guy lynched!

Also confirming that you have absorbing powers does not confirm you are town.

[pingpongsam]

You say you can cop and govern; why should we believe you? Xerxes stated clearly that he cannot use his role-modifier seperately, so you claiming you can is inconsistent with that.

So, Xerxes is conftown too, now? Is it really so far fetched that maybe everyone doesn't have exactly the same configuration despite how you choose to interpret the setup parameters?

Absorbing arguably modifies the Governor since it resets the list, but really it does not modify "copping" in any way. Also, Absorber is a role unto itself and not a modifier.

You are simply wrong here. I am not an "absorber", thus, it is not a third "role", I am not an "absorbing governor" which would affect only the governing power, I am "absorbent", an overall modifier that takes effect reflexively. The modifier effects both "roles" Technically the only role I have is governor that can be replaced by my absorbent modifier. I have another modifier that effectively gives me a second role as cop which is also overridden by the absorbent modifier. It all adds up to what I was trying to tell everyone without outright nuking my ability to use the powers.

blah blah blather

[pingpongsam]

At this point I could confirm my status by resetting a lynch on faust or someone can target me tonight and I can confirm what I absorbed last night. So, do you guys really think I would just fakeclaim all this confirmable stuff just live one more miserable day? Can we please lynch WW, now?

Yeah, cool, let's try to get the conf!town guy lynched!

Also confirming that you have absorbing powers does not confirm you are town.

Right, I agree, pushing you to a lynch right now is not a good plan, my point is it is actually confirmable.

Also, I concede your point that confirming my powers do not prove me town it just proves I am not lying which is the entire basis for thinking I may not be town. That I have put all of this out there is simply not what any scum player, even myself, would do.

[faust]

At this point I could confirm my status by resetting a lynch on faust or someone can target me tonight and I can confirm what I absorbed last night. So, do you guys really think I would just fakeclaim all this confirmable stuff just live one more miserable day? Can we please lynch WW, now?

Yeah, cool, let's try to get the conf!town guy lynched!

Also confirming that you have absorbing powers does not confirm you are town.

Right, I agree, pushing you to a lynch right now is not a good plan, my point is it is actually confirmable.

Also, I concede your point that confirming my powers do not prove me town it just proves I am not lying which is the entire basis for thinking I may not be town. That I have put all of this out there is simply not what any scum player, even myself, would do.

You can have absorbing powers and the whole rest of your claim can still be a lie.

[faust]

Also there is no way of confirming the absorbing part prior to N4, right? Tonight you would be targetted, the following night you would be able to use the role.

Surviving until D5 is probably already pretty much a win for you at this point.

[Witherweaver]

I targetted PPS to create a Neighborhood.  It's a non-killing, targetting action.

[Witherweaver]

If anyone targetted PPS at some point, that would probably be a good thing to claim.

Oh, you mean to say you won't just go ahead and claim some crap to try and put your case back together?
Or are you just hoping scum claims something so I can be made to look a liar?

I have confirmed that if I absorb a power I will be notified. No one has targeted me the last 2 nights with a non-killing power.

Vote: PPS

[Witherweaver]

My role explicitly says I target a player with my power. 

[pingpongsam]

At this point I could confirm my status by resetting a lynch on faust or someone can target me tonight and I can confirm what I absorbed last night. So, do you guys really think I would just fakeclaim all this confirmable stuff just live one more miserable day? Can we please lynch WW, now?

Yeah, cool, let's try to get the conf!town guy lynched!

Also confirming that you have absorbing powers does not confirm you are town.

Right, I agree, pushing you to a lynch right now is not a good plan, my point is it is actually confirmable.

Also, I concede your point that confirming my powers do not prove me town it just proves I am not lying which is the entire basis for thinking I may not be town. That I have put all of this out there is simply not what any scum player, even myself, would do.

You can have absorbing powers and the whole rest of your claim can still be a lie.

This is also true. At least we are working with things that are true instead of you just continuously asserting that I must be lying.
If I confirm my absorbing power then it should at least give some credence to my copping claim.
Besides all that, if we flip WW now we can then give a great deal of credence to the entire role claim.

[EgorK]

Well, PPS seems to be drowning in his own lies, one after another

What's the number of votes on him?

[Witherweaver]

I think it's 4, L-2.

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.8

witherweaver (2): pps, Hydrad
PPS (4): faust, Xerxes, iguanaiguana, WW (L-2)
Xerxes (1): Ampharos

Not Voting (3): EgorK, Jimmmmm, RR

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Day3 ends on November 16, 2015 at 9:30 forum time

[faust]

I targetted PPS to create a Neighborhood.  It's a non-killing, targetting action.

A very good point.

Okay, this should be the nail in the coffin.

[pingpongsam]

I targetted PPS to create a Neighborhood.  It's a non-killing, targetting action.

A very good point.

Okay, this should be the nail in the coffin.

It is. I told the truth about the copping. The results and the targets. The rest was a pack of lies I had to sell because I didn't bother to read the setup and did some stupid crap about a post restriction early on.

Also, I killed silverspawn on N1. I tried to kill faust on N2. I am a serial killer so scum is out there either getting blocked or not committing night kills.

[pingpongsam]

Oh, also, faust, I have 4 things that make up my role and I do have 2 roles with 2 modifiers. That was all true and while I am scum you were wrong about how implausible my claim is. You will see when I flip. I can cop and kill every night. I also have 2 other modifiers.

[Ampharos]

 

[pingpongsam]

Quit gawking and vote. Vote: PPS

[pingpongsam]

Gotta at least get a correct lynch stat, lol. Would prefer a hammer but everyone is just staring so not sure when the crowd effect wears off and the votes pile on.

[pingpongsam]

One day I am going to do this as town just to screw with everyone's heads in a royal way. But today I am, in fact, scum.

[pingpongsam]

Also, can't get through a game without an obligatory self-vote, right?

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.9

witherweaver (1): Hydrad
PPS (5): faust, Xerxes, iguanaiguana, WW, PPS (L-1)
Xerxes (1): Ampharos

Not Voting (3): EgorK, Jimmmmm, RR

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Day3 ends on November 16, 2015 at 9:30 forum time

[pingpongsam]

Totally tripped on WW neighborizing me. Dang, it was otherwise a good fakeclaim that I inadvertently forced myself into. I though absorbent was a nice touch. Not only did it mostly explain my awkward mixup early on but it gave me outs and at least some percent chance I could guess what I got targeted with and get some serious cred. I was dead man at night, though, if everyone bought it. If only I could have held out till tomorrow because I am also even-night bulletproof (booyah, faust).

[Ampharos]

Unvote

Vote: pingpongsam

I wanted you to be town 

[pingpongsam]

Unvote

Vote: pingpongsam

I wanted you to be town 

Me, too. If I had read the setup from the beginning I think I could have done this SK thing. It's pretty easy to play town when you have town powers like cop. That scum was whiffing NKs really helped me a whole lot. Reading the setup IS a scum tell even if you are scum and don't read it, lol.

[yuma]

Thread Locked!

[yuma]

Final Day3 Vote Count

witherweaver (1): Hydrad
PPS (6): faust, Xerxes, iguanaiguana, WW, PPS, Ampharos

Not Voting (3): EgorK, Jimmmmm, RR

With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch

[yuma]

pingpoingsam has been lynched. He was a Copping, Even-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer

Night3 Starts Now. Night Actions are due within 36 hours (Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 10:30 pm forum time) of this post. Night3 will last at least 24 hours beyond that point.

[yuma]

Night3 Action Deadline has passed. Night3 will end in 24 hours at 10:30 pm forum time Sunday November 15, 2015

[yuma]

Day4 Start!

Jimmmm died during the night. He was a 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owning Innocent Child.

Ampharos died during the night. He was a Bodyguarding Even-Night Doctor.


Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting (7): Hydrad, faust, Xerxes, iguanaiguana, witherweaver, EgorK, RoadRunner

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Thread Unlocked

[Roadrunner7671]

Hi guys. PPS was a good takedown. WW is the obvious choice since PPS was a cop though, rught?
Vote: WW

[XerxesPraelor]

Do we think the serial killer was telling the truth? Yes.

vote: ww

[XerxesPraelor]

I mean, if you read his final words, they look very sincere to me.

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.1

witherweaver (2): Roadrunner, Xerxes (L-2)

Not Voting (5): Hydrad, faust, iguanaiguana, witherweaver, EgorK

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[Roadrunner7671]

I mean, if you read his final words, they look very sincere to me.

And he'd want to thin the other scum during the day.

[Witherweaver]

Sigh.  Of course RR wants to kill me; I suspect him. 

I don't know what to tell you about PPS; either he was lying or his results were somehow skewed or manipulated. 

What about what he said for Jimmmm?  Do we all think that was just made up?

[XerxesPraelor]

Jimmmm died during the night. He was a 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owning Innocent Child.

[Witherweaver]

That doesn't explain at all why he's "Guilty" and "Not Guilty"

[XerxesPraelor]

This doesn't sound like an actual cop would get both scum and town results here, but he was an actual cop. I think it's most likely there was some sort of role manipulation at work.

PPE: yes, I just hit submit too soon

[Roadrunner7671]

Sigh.  Of course RR wants to kill me; I suspect him. 

If you explain to me what my meta is, I will unvote before I go to sleep so that it'll be less likely that someone dies while I am sleeping.

It's a good deal.

[faust]

I'm in favor of a massclaim.

[faust]

We can all agree that PPS was not lying, yes? He has no reason to lie as the SK, because lying will only get him lynched.

The only thing to figure out is whether the result was manipulated. Given that the Jimmmmm result seems manipulated, and it looks different from the result on WW, I'd say no.

I still want to do a massclaim before we lynch.

[Hydrad]

i'm ok with a massclaim also

[EgorK]

I do not oppose mass claim

Also WW is town (unless I was rbed or redirected, as usual)

[faust]

I do not oppose mass claim

Also WW is town (unless I was rbed or redirected, as usual)

Interesting. Now I think we have to do the claiming thing. I'll think of an order. Or maybe someone else wants? I feel like I am the towniest player here though.

[Roadrunner7671]

I do not oppose mass claim

Also WW is town (unless I was rbed or redirected, as usual)

Interesting. Now I think we have to do the claiming thing. I'll think of an order. Or maybe someone else wants? I feel like I am the towniest player here though.

I feel that I am the towniest person here, actually.

But go ahead.

[faust]

Here is an order:

Witherweaver
Xerxes
iguana
Hydrad
Roadrunner
Egor
faust

[Roadrunner7671]

This is biased. It's a list of who faust thinks is the scummiest then it goes down the line. If faust is scum we're all going down (besides the scum, of course).

[faust]

This is biased. It's a list of who faust thinks is the scummiest then it goes down the line. If faust is scum we're all going down (besides the scum, of course).

Of course it's biased. What did you expect?

[faust]

Also, even if I was scum, we would not "all go down".

Also, I notice you did not make a counter-proposal.

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, even if I was scum, we would not "all go down".

Also, I notice you did not make a counter-proposal.

No, I'm fine with this order.

[faust]

Also, even if I was scum, we would not "all go down".

Also, I notice you did not make a counter-proposal.

No, I'm fine with this order.

Has someone already told you that you are weird?

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, even if I was scum, we would not "all go down".

Also, I notice you did not make a counter-proposal.

No, I'm fine with this order.

Has someone already told you that you are weird?

💔

[iguanaiguana]

I am fine with the order for the mass claim.

[iguanaiguana]

Can someone explain to me how they think that Jimmmmm's role worked?

Does anyone have an explanation for the two deaths?

[iguanaiguana]

I mean obviously mafia does. Anything other than that.

[Witherweaver]

I don't really have objections to a massclaim.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm fine with a mass claim.

[iguanaiguana]

One issue I guess is that after I claim I will need to be pretty subdued about giving my scumreads, because scum will be able to blatantly use my reads to their advantage.

That said, I think I am OK with that at this point in the game.

WW goes first? Has anyone not agreed yet?

[Witherweaver]

Alright, I am a Neighborizing One-Shot Bulletproof Townie. 

Night 1 I targetted PPS
Night 2 I targetted Iguana
Night 3 I targetted Faust.

Faust never said anything in the QT, but it was created so the action went through. 

[faust]

Interesting(TM).

Xerxes goes next.

[Roadrunner7671]

Is refusing to claim seen as scummy?

[Witherweaver]

I think that you in particular should claim.

[Roadrunner7671]

I think that you in particular should claim.

Why? Because if I fake claim you guys can tell because I am a huge noob?

[Witherweaver]

Because reasons.

[XerxesPraelor]

Interesting(TM).

Xerxes goes next.

I'm a roleblocking odd-night gunsmith. I have to get to class, will claim targets afterward.

[Roadrunner7671]

Because reasons.

Such as?

[faust]

Okay... I think we can move on with the claiming for now, until Xerxes reappears. Unless the person up next has a compelling reason not to claim before Xerxes; such a thing might exist.

iguana is up next.

[Roadrunner7671]

Mass claims suck.

[faust]

Mass claims suck.

Why?

[iguanaiguana]

I am a town-aligned loud babysitting jailkeeper.

At night, I target someone. They are jailkept and informed that I visited them. If I get targeted for a kill, they also die as well as me.

I felt the role was best used to target scum, since I roleblock them and if another scum targets me, I take them out.
N1 I thought e was scum and jailkept him. The reason was because he was pushing for a Hydrad lynch instead of Silver or Gkrieg, which made me think he was trying to distract from Gkrieg's wagon. Unfortunately I didn't save him because Silverspawn got killed and e suicided. So apparently my roleblocking does not block a lover from suiciding.

N2 I jailkept Hydrad because based on e's town flip, it actually made Hydrad look scummy. That's why Day 3 I was trying to push for a wagon on Hydrad some because with no night kill, I thought it was possible that I had blocked Hydrad from performing the night kill. I got no real leverage to actually pursue a wagon on him though because PPS caused such a huge fiasco.

N3 I figured that if there was no night kill after jailkeeping Hydrad once, why not try it again. So I also jailkept Hydrad last night. I didn't want to jailkeep Witherweaver because I didn't know if there might be a vigilante in the town and figured if there was a town vigilante who hadn't been shooting yet, he might try to shoot Witherweaver and fail if I jailkept him. So Hydrad was a good choice again since it resulted in 0 deaths the first time I did it. With two deaths last night though, I suspect the 0 deaths on N3 had more to do with the efforts of other doctors and jailkeepers, as there seem to be quite a few.

[iguanaiguana]

Due to my babysitting modifier, I will have to change up the way that I plan to target people at night from now on to prevent scum from taking advantage of it, and I will have to guard my reads somewhat now too so that scum doesn't predict what I'm doing and try to use my death to their benefit.

[faust]

Once we're through, I will assign each claim a star ranking.

Hydrad is next.

[Roadrunner7671]

Mass claims suck.

Why?

They just let scum kill PRs.

[iguanaiguana]

In case it isn't clear, "Town-aligned" doesn't actually appear in my role description. It is just "Loud babysitting jailkeep" in green text. I added town-aligned for clarity because I believe that Jailkeeps can be scum as well as town.

This is my first mass-claim and I am trying to do it correctly, especially because trying to be hilarious apparently gets you lynched.

[faust]

Mass claims suck.

Why?

They just let scum kill PRs.

Well, it is really hard for scum to not kill PRs in this setup, you know?

[Roadrunner7671]

Mass claims suck.

Why?

They just let scum kill PRs.

Well, it is really hard for scum to not kill PRs in this setup, you know?

I'm not a PR.

[faust]

because trying to be hilarious apparently gets you lynched.

Only if you don't succeed.

[faust]

Mass claims suck.

Why?

They just let scum kill PRs.

Well, it is really hard for scum to not kill PRs in this setup, you know?

I'm not a PR.

...
...

Go ahead and full-claim, please. Immediately.

[iguanaiguana]

Aw snap, you just gained a scum rank on Faust's list!

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.2

witherweaver (2): Roadrunner, Xerxes (L-2)

Not Voting (5): Hydrad, faust, iguanaiguana, witherweaver, EgorK

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Please note that I am changing my Internet service at home. I believe it will be shut down tonight and I am having another company come to install tomorrow. So there may be some downtime that I don't have Internet. However, I will have my wife's smarter phone and access at work, so there should be limited impact

[Roadrunner7671]

I am the compulsively loud bodyguard. If the person who I guard dies, I die instead. That's hardly a PR.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm not sure why you had people claim before me.

Anyway, I targeted Jimmmm N1, found he had a gun, roleblocked him N2, targeted iguanaiguana N3, no result.

[Witherweaver]

Roadrunner, who were your targets?

[Roadrunner7671]

Roadrunner, who were your targets?

Iguana was the second night, I think you were last night. I will think of night one.

[Roadrunner7671]

On the first night I guarded the yellow Pokčmon guy.

[Witherweaver]

So I'm your top scum read and you Bodyguarded me?

[Roadrunner7671]

So I'm your top scum read and you Bodyguarded me?

That way I wouldn't die.

[XerxesPraelor]

So I'm your top scum read and you Bodyguarded me?

That way I wouldn't die.

??

[Roadrunner7671]

So I'm your top scum read and you Bodyguarded me?

That way I wouldn't die.

??

If I protect scum, they won't die during the night. Therefore, Roadrunner will live on!

[Witherweaver]

So did you think Iguana and Amphoras were scum?

[Roadrunner7671]

So did you think Iguana and Amphoras were scum?

No. I didn't think a new player would get night killed night one, and Iguana suspected me, so I did it for the lols because you can see that I interacted with you, you just don't know what I did.

Why am I getting so much crap for my role?

And how does everyone know my meta except me?

[Witherweaver]

I'm not sure why you had people claim before me.

Anyway, I targeted Jimmmm N1, found he had a gun, roleblocked him N2, targeted iguanaiguana N3, no result.

So you're saying you were blocked Night 3?  Why did you target Jimmm twice in a row?

[XerxesPraelor]

So did you think Iguana and Amphoras were scum?

And how does everyone know my meta except me?

Why do you think people know your meta better than you?

[Witherweaver]

Did you Roleblock Iguana?

[Roadrunner7671]

Did you Roleblock Iguana?

Me? I don't have that power.

[Roadrunner7671]

So did you think Iguana and Amphoras were scum?

And how does everyone know my meta except me?

Why do you think people know your meta better than you?

Cause I have no idea and people are like 'that fits with RR's meta.'

How do people come up with this?

[Witherweaver]

No, Xerxes, Night 3.

[Hydrad]

he did not because i igot blocked again D:

anyways claim coming.

[Hydrad]

I'm a Vengefully Psychological Miller

When I die by lynch I get to kill someone on my wagon. And when I die by night kill I kill the person that killed me.

each night I can also target someone to see if they have the potential to kill someone. But if they have already killed someone i get a false result and they say that they don't have the potential to kill... so not really useful this late into the game.

N1: targetted SS and he couldn't kill
N2 and N3: target yellow pokemon guy but was blocked both times since iguana targetted me.

also i'm a miller so I guess any investigation on me comes up as a guilty result. ( I just now realized that this will now look like I'm protecting myself from cop results... thanks yuma)

and thats it.

[Roadrunner7671]

So yellow Pokčmon guy is his new nickname? I'm sure he's thrilled.

[Hydrad]

ok well i'm going to work for a bit. but if you guys have questions for me i'll try to look on my phone so that you don't have to wait 8 hours for a response.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm not sure why you had people claim before me.

Anyway, I targeted Jimmmm N1, found he had a gun, roleblocked him N2, targeted iguanaiguana N3, no result.

So you're saying you were blocked Night 3?  Why did you target Jimmm twice in a row?

Yeah, I was probably blocked or something. I target Jimmmm twice in a row because I got that he had a gun, and was therefore likely to be mafia, so I wanted to stop the NK.

[XerxesPraelor]

Did you Roleblock Iguana?

Yes.

[faust]

I am the compulsively loud bodyguard. If the person who I guard dies, I die instead. That's hardly a PR.

Loud means that the players you targetted were informed that such targetting happened, correct? WW, iguana, can you confirm this?

[faust]

Now comes the claim I'm most curious about.

[faust]

So did you think Iguana and Amphoras were scum?

No. I didn't think a new player would get night killed night one, and Iguana suspected me, so I did it for the lols because you can see that I interacted with you, you just don't know what I did.

Why am I getting so much crap for my role?

And how does everyone know my meta except me?

You are aware that the best use of your power is to protect people who have better PRs than you, yes? not to try and survive. That's anti-town.

[Witherweaver]

I am the compulsively loud bodyguard. If the person who I guard dies, I die instead. That's hardly a PR.

Loud means that the players you targetted were informed that such targetting happened, correct? WW, iguana, can you confirm this?

I was informed that RR targetted me last night.

[Roadrunner7671]

Now comes the claim I'm most curious about.

Your own?
Ppe 2

[faust]

Now comes the claim I'm most curious about.

Your own?
Ppe 2

My own is surely exciting as well... but no, I mean Egor.

[Roadrunner7671]

So did you think Iguana and Amphoras were scum?

No. I didn't think a new player would get night killed night one, and Iguana suspected me, so I did it for the lols because you can see that I interacted with you, you just don't know what I did.

Why am I getting so much crap for my role?

And how does everyone know my meta except me?

You are aware that the best use of your power is to protect people who have better PRs than you, yes? not to try and survive. That's anti-town.

Wow. You only addressed part one of my question.

[faust]

It better that you don't know your meta, that way you can't emulate it.

[Roadrunner7671]

It better that you don't know your meta, that way you can't emulate it.

As fair as that is, I'm still gonna whine about it. Forever.

[faust]

Hydrad: do you confirm that iguana targetted you?

[Hydrad]

Hydrad: do you confirm that iguana targetted you?

I do

[EgorK]

I am weak odd-night doctor. You can guess who I targeted

[faust]

I am weak odd-night doctor. You can guess who I targeted

Why did you claim D1?

[EgorK]

I am weak odd-night doctor. You can guess who I targeted

Why did you claim D1?

Because I thought on average other people would have better roles, so I hadn't mind dying at night. Plus I hate RWS for more than one page. Plus I wanted to play the game, not merely following, and this sounded like fun

Your turn to claim it seems

[Roadrunner7671]

Yeah, Faust.

[faust]

So uh... before I get into claim analysis, let me do my claim so we're complete.

I am a Hiding Semi Beloved Princess.

Every night, I can target someone. Every action that targets me fails, and any action targetting my target will also target me. But if I target mafia, or anyone with a gun, I die. If I get nightkilled, the following Day phase is skipped and the game moves to another night.

So I tried to stay alive. Obviously I was a major target for scum.

N1 I targetted Ampharos. He seemed townie and I didn't think he'd be lynched. I got a note saying that RR targetted me.

So N2 I targetted Roadrunner. It was a hard decision between choosing the safe target and getting more info. RR seemed townie and the confirmation worth it. Also with the loud thing.

N3 I got cold feet and targetted Ampharos again. (He seemed less likely to by killed than RR) He died, but I live, so yay. I guess that must have something to do with the Bodyguard.

I have more thoughts that I will share when I get up.

[faust]

Unfortunately, this means Egor's result on me is nothing. You're just going to have to believe me.

[XerxesPraelor]

So it looks like nobody can explain the Jimmmm result. Faust comes the closest though.

[Roadrunner7671]

Wait...someone lied.

[iguanaiguana]

Wait...someone lied.

Lol, yeah that's how it goes.

[Roadrunner7671]

Wait...someone lied.

Lol, yeah that's how it goes.

This is exactly why mass claims suck!

[iguanaiguana]

It's pretty obvious to me that Witherweaver's claim was fake. I'd like to put him at L-1. Any objections?

[Roadrunner7671]

It's pretty obvious to me that Witherweaver's claim was fake. I'd like to put him at L-1. Any objections?

Nah.

[Witherweaver]

It's pretty obvious to me that Witherweaver's claim was fake. I'd like to put him at L-1. Any objections?

It's not. Why would you think that?

Also, Egor confirmed me town.

[Roadrunner7671]

Results can be tampered with. I have no idea who I want to get lynched, but WW at L-2 seems good.

[Hydrad]

Id prefer no lunch until at least Faust posts his reads.

[Witherweaver]

Results can be tampered with. I have no idea who I want to get lynched, but WW at L-2 seems good.

So a Guilty result on me means lynch me and an Innocent result on me means results can be tampered with so lynch me.  Sounds fair. 

[Roadrunner7671]

Results can be tampered with. I have no idea who I want to get lynched, but WW at L-2 seems good.

So a Guilty result on me means lynch me and an Innocent result on me means results can be tampered with so lynch me.  Sounds fair.

I will sleep soln. My offer meta for unvote still stands. And we'll see what Egor and Sherlock have to say.

[XerxesPraelor]

Wait...someone lied.

Lol, yeah that's how it goes.

This is exactly why mass claims suck!

This is exactly why mass claims are great! See, now we can figure out who lied and lynch them.

[XerxesPraelor]

It's pretty obvious to me that Witherweaver's claim was fake. I'd like to put him at L-1. Any objections?

It's not. Why would you think that?

Also, Egor confirmed me town.

This happened? unvote

[XerxesPraelor]

Id prefer no lunch until at least Faust posts his reads.

[Roadrunner7671]

Wait...someone lied.

Lol, yeah that's how it goes.

This is exactly why mass claims suck!

This is exactly why mass claims are great! See, now we can figure out who lied and lynch them.

Ha ha, sure we can.
Good night.

[faust]

It's pretty obvious to me that Witherweaver's claim was fake. I'd like to put him at L-1. Any objections?

This is super scummy.

[faust]

But if I target mafia, or anyone with a gun, I die.

I just realied I posted this. I meant to say "if I target mafia of anybody else performing a killing action, I die".

I should not claim late at night...

[faust]

Egor: Why target WW? Did you have a dying wish?

[EgorK]

Egor: Why target WW? Did you have a dying wish?

I thought him towny, probably for flawed reasons

[EgorK]

Instill need to reread D3 though

[faust]

Instill need to reread D3 though

WHAT? o_O

[faust]

I promised star rankings for claims. Here they are:

Star ratings for claims:

WW: 2 stars
+ part of the role has been confirmed
- role is more boring than all the others
- elements of the role seem unconnected

Xerxes: 2 stars
- Roleblocker is a scummy role
- has no useful result

iguana: 3.5 stars
+ part of the role has been confirmed
- included "town-aligned" in the claim

Roadrunner: 5 stars
+ part of the role has been confirmed
+ forgot N1 target
+ weak role

Hydrad: 4 stars
+ Vengeful claimed to work in nonstandard way
+ role gives incentive to lynch Hydrad
- no results

Egor: 3.5 stars
+ claimed part of role D1
+ role fits with actions he took D2
- N3 target makes no sense

[faust]

So what worries me is that there is no killing role claimed (aside from Babysitter I guess, and since iguana is still alive, that didn't do anything). Still we had two deaths tonight. That means that scum had a way to make two deaths happen, right? If so, then they could again, and in this case we are at MyLo.

It is technically possible that scum killed Jimmmmm, Jimmmmm used PGO, Ampharos targetted the killing scum and took the shot... I think? Occam's razor though.

It is vital that we figure out what happened tonight I believe. Here are actions as claimed:

Jimmmmm - no target
Ampharos - ?
Hydrad - targets Ampharos, fails
faust - targets Ampharos, success - SEMI-CONFIRMED
Xerxes - targets iguana, fails - UNEXPLAINED
iguanaiguana - targets Hydrad - CONFIRMED
witherweaver - targets faust, failed (Neighborhood with only WW created) - EXPLAINED
EgorK - targets WW, does not die
RoadRunner - targets WW - CONFIRMED

So Xerxes's failure is either a lie or scum is responsible for it. If scum blocked Xerxes's action, it is very unlikely that they could have blocked Egor's action as well. So in this case, it holds that if Egor is town, so is WW. Is that right?

Also, we know that WW is indeed a Neighborizer. If he was also a Roleblocker of some sort, then the blocked player would get a Neighborhood with WW, right? Noone got that. So that means WW is not a Roleblocker (he also targetted PPS D1 and his action went through). That means (assuming 3 mafia) that there can only be one blocking role on scum's side. This further underlines that it is hardly possible for Xerxes and Egor to both be blocked.

There are some scenarios here:

Egor is scum
I think this is pretty unlikely, given the way he plays... but still. I think if Egor is scum, so is WW probably and they have 2 kills somehow and are looking to end the game in a mislynch.

Xerxes is scum
In that case, he just lied. He could be WW's partner and blocked Egor. Though really, I think Egor's role was obvious from his play, so why block him? If he dies, then the better. It's not like Egor breadcrumbed a targets on D3. He didn't even read D3 apparently before deciding on a target.

Of course, Xerxes could be scum partnered with someone other than WW. Then the push for a quick WW mislynch makes a lot of sense.

Egor and Xerxes are both town
Then WW has to be town except for weirdo edge cases that I'm not going to consider now.

So conclusion: Egor is pretty much the only possible partner for WW. But Egor is towny. So meh. If Egor is town, WW is town. RR is town also because I targetted him and didn't die. That leaves scum in {iguana, Xerxes, Hydrad}

I will have to reread for partner interaction.

[Roadrunner7671]

Wow, Faust is really taking over.

Unvote

[EgorK]

Faust, reread implies I had read it as it happened, just in jet-lagged sleep deprived state

[Roadrunner7671]

Maybe it's Hydrad and Xerses. Hydrad fake claimed so that he wouldn't be lynched.

[faust]

Faust, reread implies I had read it as it happened, just in jet-lagged sleep deprived state

Not much reading could have happened if you thought the guy with a guilty result on him was particularly towny.

[EgorK]

Faust, reread implies I had read it as it happened, just in jet-lagged sleep deprived state

Not much reading could have happened if you thought the guy with a guilty result on him was particularly towny.

With guilty and not guilty results at the same time? This result is clearly was tampered with so I assumed it means nothing as to WW alignment

[faust]

Faust, reread implies I had read it as it happened, just in jet-lagged sleep deprived state

Not much reading could have happened if you thought the guy with a guilty result on him was particularly towny.

With guilty and not guilty results at the same time? This result is clearly was tampered with so I assumed it means nothing as to WW alignment

...
That was Jimmmmm. WW had a clear guilty.

[EgorK]

Faust, reread implies I had read it as it happened, just in jet-lagged sleep deprived state

Not much reading could have happened if you thought the guy with a guilty result on him was particularly towny.

With guilty and not guilty results at the same time? This result is clearly was tampered with so I assumed it means nothing as to WW alignment

...
That was Jimmmmm. WW had a clear guilty.

Oops

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.3

Not Voting (7): Hydrad, faust, iguanaiguana, witherweaver, EgorK, Xerxes, Roadrunner

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[faust]

Well, apparently it worked out.

[iguanaiguana]

Alright, I am a Neighborizing One-Shot Bulletproof Townie. 

Night 1 I targetted PPS
Night 2 I targetted Iguana
Night 3 I targetted Faust.

Faust never said anything in the QT, but it was created so the action went through.

The reason this claim is fake and WW is scum is because he is claiming that his role ends with 'townie' when no other player in this game has had a role ending with townie. Also one shot bulletproof should count as only one role modifier to be consistent with PPS' role as copping even night bulletproof serial killer.

 Townie is not a role, so while witherweaver is telling the truth about everything else he is lying about this.

Faust, man, you are not the sheriff of this town and if someone notices something that you didn't that doesn't automatically make them scummy.

Vote: Witherweaver

[faust]

Reread time. Will post anything of note here.

D1
- WW defends gkrieg early on
- iguana joins the gkrieg wagon early. He reads Hydrad as townie and does not include a read on Xerxes/chairs. To be fair, chairs hadn't posted until then.
- iguana would be okay with a RR lynch. He continues to make an argument that RR is a good lynch even if he's town.
- then iguana goes after PPS (no urls anymore; you will just have to believe me. It's too much work)
- and then he comes back to gkrieg
- Xerxes wants to lynch iguana, but never votes for him
- instead, he votes for PPS
- Hydrad votes PPS as well
- Xerxes thinks gkrieg is likely town and votes for Hydrad
- Hydrad joins the silver wagon
- Xerxes derphammers gkrieg

So D1 conclusions: very little on WW. iguana tunnels gkrieg for quite a bit after testing other options early on. Hydrad does not address gkrieg at all and joins the silver wagon. Xerxes finds gkrieg towny, but then derphammers. Also Xerxes tries to get people to vote for Hydrad instead of gkrieg.
Scum, from most to least:
Xerxes > Hydrad >> WW > iguana
Unlikely pairing: Xerxes/Hydrad

D2
- Xerxes trusts ash's claim
- iguana goes after ashersky
- Xerxes changes after Egor's claim
- Hydrad wants to talk some more
- WW defends ash
- then Hydrad supports an ash lynch
- WW hammers ash

Okay, so every supported this lynch, some more reluctantly than others. I don't think we get much out of this.

D3
- iguana opens voting for Xerxes because he was ash's top scum read
- changes to WW after PPS's claim
- Xerxes joins
- iguana says he could explain the no NK
- continues to suspect Hydrad, wants to hear from him
- Xerxes proposes that we lynch PPS if WW flips town
- Hydrad answers iguana, confirming that he was targetted
- Xerxes and iguana both think WW acts scummy
- iguana seems as though he knows PPS won't flip mafia

That's that.
Scum, most to least:
iguana > WW > Xerxes > Hydrad
Unlikely pairing: iguana/Hydrad

So this analysis leaves me to believe that it's iguana/Xerxes. I'm not sure who of those two should be lynched first.

Also, WW/Egor have practically no interaction... I kinda think they would if they were scum together.

PPE: iguana

[faust]

Hmmm... not sure if we get an answer, but:

Is "Townie" a possible part of a player's role name in this setup?

[faust]

The reason this claim is fake and WW is scum is because he is claiming that his role ends with 'townie' when no other player in this game has had a role ending with townie. Also one shot bulletproof should count as only one role modifier to be consistent with PPS' role as copping even night bulletproof serial killer.

I think the reason PPS's role was the way we saw it is that Serial Killer counted as alignment, not as role.

[faust]

Faust, man, you are not the sheriff of this town and if someone notices something that you didn't that doesn't automatically make them scummy.

I may be no sheriff but at least I think things through rather than jumping to conclusions.

[yuma]

Hmmm... not sure if we get an answer, but:

Is "Townie" a possible part of a player's role name in this setup?

I can't answer that question. Please see the rules at the beginning of the game for any role based questions

[iguanaiguana]

I think things through and remember all of what you just said. I also have had little chance to post off mobile for a long while.

I really think if his role was what he said he would be one shot bulletproof neighborizer not one shot bulletproof neighborizing townie.

[faust]

Well meh. I don't think the OP specifically excludes the use of Townie.

For what it's worth, at first I thought it was weird that WW claimed "Neighborizing One-shot BP townie" and not "one-shot BP Neighborizer" - then I realized that the former made it clear that one-shot only modifies BP while the second does not. I'm not sure WW would realize such details when fakeclaiming.

PPE: Sort of ninja'd

[iguanaiguana]

I think the most likely pairs are Xerxes and WW or EgorK and WW.

[faust]

I think the most likely pairs are Xerxes and WW or EgorK and WW.

If you can present an argument for how Xerxes/WW makes sense, I would be happy to hear it.

[iguanaiguana]

I think about stuff and vote my conscience. When new evidence comes up I change my vote. If that makes me scum, just lynch me and lets get it over with.

But WW was acting scummy day1 and day3 and now his claim reeks of fakeness so it is astonishing to me that town is not jumping on his lynch.

[iguanaiguana]

I think the most likely pairs are Xerxes and WW or EgorK and WW.

If you can present an argument for how Xerxes/WW makes sense, I would be happy to hear it.

I'll do a reread at lunch. I just know they both acting like scum

[Witherweaver]

Alright, I am a Neighborizing One-Shot Bulletproof Townie. 

Night 1 I targetted PPS
Night 2 I targetted Iguana
Night 3 I targetted Faust.

Faust never said anything in the QT, but it was created so the action went through.

The reason this claim is fake and WW is scum is because he is claiming that his role ends with 'townie' when no other player in this game has had a role ending with townie. Also one shot bulletproof should count as only one role modifier to be consistent with PPS' role as copping even night bulletproof serial killer.

 Townie is not a role, so while witherweaver is telling the truth about everything else he is lying about this.

Faust, man, you are not the sheriff of this town and if someone notices something that you didn't that doesn't automatically make them scummy.

Vote: Witherweaver

I assume it's worded that way because "Bulletproof" is an adjective, but it is my role. 

[Witherweaver]

I think about stuff and vote my conscience. When new evidence comes up I change my vote. If that makes me scum, just lynch me and lets get it over with.

But WW was acting scummy day1 and day3 and now his claim reeks of fakeness so it is astonishing to me that town is not jumping on his lynch.

Well, this is interesting.

[faust]

I think about stuff and vote my conscience. When new evidence comes up I change my vote. If that makes me scum, just lynch me and lets get it over with.

But WW was acting scummy day1 and day3 and now his claim reeks of fakeness so it is astonishing to me that town is not jumping on his lynch.

Well, all you say is true... but if I run through the scenarios for scum!WW, they just don't make any sense. And Egor is so towny.

[faust]

WW, have you ever fakeclaimed in an RMM game?

[Witherweaver]

WW, have you ever fakeclaimed in an RMM game?

Hm.. I think the only time was that Dominion game where we were all cards, and I had to counterlcaim Jimmm because of Ash's crazy plan to almost guarantee our loss. 

[XerxesPraelor]

Did anyone target Jimmm N1 or N2? If so, my role is confirmed because they didn't die.

[Witherweaver]

Did anyone target Jimmm N1 or N2? If so, my role is confirmed because they didn't die.

Huh?

[faust]

Did anyone target Jimmm N1 or N2? If so, my role is confirmed because they didn't die.

Jimmmmm is only 1-shot PGO. I assume he could choose the night of the activation.

Wait, we can ask about dead roles, right?

Is Jimmmmm's 1-shot PGO passive or does it have to be activated?

[iguanaiguana]

Okay, so my read on Xerxes. I ALREADY THINK he is scum, so don't be surprised when I call stuff scummy about him:

D1:

Comes in apologizing in advance for how he's been lurking, then continues to lurk a lot.

Calls me scummy right off the bat and calls WW "towny and active," two things that I really didn't think WW had been at all up to that point. I found this post scummy immediately but said nothing because I felt like I didn't know Xerxes well enough to say something like that so early and no one else said anything about it.

Hops on the Hydrad lynchwagon that E is trying to start. This looks like scum trying to join forces with an unknowing townmember to distract from his team member's impending lynch.

At first is very against the Gkrieg lynch, then decides that he's willing to get on the Gkrieg wagon, but wants to wait until the deadline. Continues to argue for Gkrieg being really towny until he hammers then claims that he didn't know it was the hammer.

Day 2

Votes for faust because Ash voted for Faust

Switches to Ash because EgorK claims Faust is town.

This looks like scum actively trying to join in on various townmember's mislynch ideas to make sure that some kind of mislynch goes through.

Day 3

Votes WW as soon as PPS claims the guilty result. Kinda looks like he already knew that WW would be guilty and wanted to make sure he got on the wagon fast. I know, I did the same thing. I know.

Switches his vote to PPS once he sees that a lot of other people are voting PPS and acts like he's confused by all the role madness. Looks like scum realizing that the scum who targeted his scumpartner is also scum and could get lynched rather than his scumpartner.

Agrees with things that I say calling WW scummy. Looks to me like he knows that WW is super scummy already and fully willing to bus him at this point for his own town cred.

That's about all I have. I feel a scum team of WW and Xerxes where they have agreed that WW looks scummy and that Xerxes should bus. I will do another post with my WW reads if necessary.

[Hydrad]

XP is my top scumread i feel like.

[Roadrunner7671]

Hi

[faust]

Hi

I love your insightful posts at crucial points in the game.

[yuma]

Is Jimmmmm's 1-shot PGO passive or does it have to be activated?

The only response I can give pertaining to dead players' roles must follow the rule outlined in the OP:

- After a player dies and flips other surviving players may PM the mod to learn an abridged description of the dead player's role. This information may not be directly quoted in the game and will not include any specific actions or results that the dead player used or obtained. The mod has pre-created a canned response for such queries for each individual role that will be used to answer these PMs.

[iguanaiguana]

WW read:

DAY 1:

I maintain that Day 1, despite posting a lot of oneliners, WW did very little to actually help town. He goes after Silver for, I think, pretty bad reasons, and keeps his vote on Silver (I think?) the whole day. He gives a nod to one of my argument's for Gkrieg but he doesn't switch votes.

DAY 2:

He really, really argues against the case for Ashersky as scum. It creeped me out. Like, how does this guy know that Ashersky is not scum? Ash was acting weird and scummy, and here's this one guy who's saying "Nah, this is probably town!Ash" I mean, did he already know?

In the end, he votes Ash anyway and says he'd also like to lynch RR. This is the beginning of his "RR is scum" argument that I really don't like. I mean, why is RR scum? What's so scummy about him? He doesn't give a lot of reasons for that, at least not reasons that I consider to be good.

(And yes, I know that I also went after RR at the beginning. I continued to do it until I was about 80% sure that he was town, then gave up on it because lynching town is bad.)

N2:

No one saw this, but I had a night conversation with Witherweaver where I full claimed ot him. He told me nothing other than that he was a neighborizer at that time. We talked about meta and I shared my concern that I am overdoing it as town in this game, giving too many reasons for things, that if I draw scum in another game I won't be able to reproduce my meta.

The biggest scummy thing about that night was his list of scumreads. He said he was "not sure" about whether Faust/Egor might be a scumpair, and gave his top scumread as Roadrunner with Jimm and Ampharos in second and third place. He didn't even mention Xerxes.

Day 3:

PPS just starts sounding crazier and crazier like he's lying, but Witherweaver holds back from voting for him for a really really long time until finally he directly contradicts something that Witherweaver knows to be true. It looks like Witherweaver thinks that PPS is town (because he knows PPS is not mafia) and doesn't want to be on his wagon when he dies.

He must also know that if PPS does flip some kind of copping result, it would be really bad for him. Most likely WW thought until near the end that PPS was a copping townie and that his flipping town would be a death sentence.

Day 4:

His claim just looks so fake to me.

[iguanaiguana]

The sad thing is that I felt so honored by being brought into WW's neighborhood that I fullclaimed to him and put him on my forum buddy list and told him I was super glad that he, me and PPS were all virtually conf!town (we had talked about how he had a strong townread on PPS) and could work together.

I just had no idea at that time.

[iguanaiguana]

I mean, you are still on my forum buddy list even if you are scum, lol.

You still helped me figure out my meta.

[XerxesPraelor]

Players:
1. WW Neighborizing one-shot bulletproof
2. silverspawn Town Tracking Compulsive Lover
3. faust Hiding semi-beloved princess
4. hydrad Vengefully psychological miller
5. gkeirg Mafia Voyeuristic Self Watcher
6. Ampharos Town Bodyguarding Even-Night Doctor
7. 2.7 Town Compulsive Investigative Lover
8. Xerxes roleblocking odd-night gunsmith
9. PPS Copping, Even-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer
10. Roadrunner compulsively loud bodyguard
11. EgorK Weak odd-night doctor
12. iguanaiguana loud babysitting jailkeeper
13. Jimmmmm Town 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owning Innocent Child
14. ash Town Delayed Ninja Jailkeeper

N1.
Faust hides behind Amph, says RR targeted him.
EgorK doctors Faust.
Hydrad psychologizes SS, "can't kill"
RR bodyguards ??
Xerxes rb/gs Jimmm, "has gun"
II jailkeeps e
WW neighborizes PPS.
PPS may kill, cops Jimmm "Town, scum"
Silverspawn dies. E dies.

N2.
Faust hides behind RR.
Hydrad targets ampharos, blocked.
RR bodyguards WW.
Xerxes RB Jimmm.
II jailkeeps Hydrad.
WW neighborizes Iguana.
PPS may kill, cops WW - "scum".
Nobody dies.

N3.
Faust hides behind Ampharos.
EgorK doctors WW.
Hydrad targets Ampharos, blocked.
RR bodyguards WW.
Xerxes RB/GS iguanaiguana, blocked.
II jailkeeps Hydrad.
WW neighborizes Faust, Faust does not appear.
Jimmmm dies. Ampharos dies.

PPE: 8

[XerxesPraelor]

The biggest question here, I think, is whether PPS was telling the truth. If he was, then there's a conflict between his result and EgorK's result on WW. In this case, EgorK's result is easier to mess up, so if PPS was telling the truth, WW is almost certainly scum. However, the result on Jimmmm is very confusing. The only solution I can think for it is scum hiding behind Jimmmm. Since Faust is the only one to claim hider, that makes him the most likely culprit.

If PPS was lying, then WW is almost certainly town, as we have a town result on him.

So I think based on PPS's claims, Faust/WW is a reasonable pairing based on theory. I'm inclined to look elsewhere though.

[XerxesPraelor]

Votes for faust because Ash voted for Faust

Switches to Ash because EgorK claims Faust is town.

This looks like scum actively trying to join in on various townmember's mislynch ideas to make sure that some kind of mislynch goes through.

Are you saying it's bad to vote for someone confirmed to have lied, or for someone copped to be guilty? I mean, this is basic theory. I guess some of it goes out the window with ash, but still.

[XerxesPraelor]

Confirmed (or mason-level confirmed):

WW neighborized N1, N2, N3.
II roleblocked Hydrad N2.
Faust hid N3.
RR is loud.
II is loud.

[Witherweaver]

The sad thing is that I felt so honored by being brought into WW's neighborhood that I fullclaimed to him and put him on my forum buddy list and told him I was super glad that he, me and PPS were all virtually conf!town (we had talked about how he had a strong townread on PPS) and could work together.

I just had no idea at that time.

Obviously my reads are great as PPS turned out to be scum~

[Witherweaver]

Why wasn't Jimmmmm announced as an IC?

[Witherweaver]

Did anyone target Jimmm N1 or N2? If so, my role is confirmed because they didn't die.

Jimmmmm is only 1-shot PGO. I assume he could choose the night of the activation.

Wait, we can ask about dead roles, right?

Is Jimmmmm's 1-shot PGO passive or does it have to be activated?

I don't think so, Paranoid Gun Owner is described as passive: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Paranoid_Gun_Owner

[Witherweaver]

Oh, I see, that's what Xerxes was saying. 

I guess IC can have a variant where it isn't released at the start of the game: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Innocent_Child.  I'm not sure if Roleblocking would affect that.

[Witherweaver]

Day 4:

His claim just looks so fake to me.

I don't know why you think this. 

[Witherweaver]

Roadrunner, who did you target Night 1?

[iguanaiguana]

Day 4:

His claim just looks so fake to me.

I don't know why you think this.

I have already said why. If it is true, it makes you literally the only person in the game with a role that ends with 'Townie'

[iguanaiguana]

Roadrunner, who did you target Night 1?

He said the yellow pokemon guy: Ampharos

[Witherweaver]

Day 4:

His claim just looks so fake to me.

I don't know why you think this.

I have already said why. If it is true, it makes you literally the only person in the game with a role that ends with 'Townie'

So? 

[Witherweaver]

Roadrunner, who did you target Night 1?

He said the yellow pokemon guy: Ampharos

Hmm... so Faust/RR is possible?

[iguanaiguana]

Votes for faust because Ash voted for Faust

Switches to Ash because EgorK claims Faust is town.

This looks like scum actively trying to join in on various townmember's mislynch ideas to make sure that some kind of mislynch goes through.

Are you saying it's bad to vote for someone confirmed to have lied, or for someone copped to be guilty? I mean, this is basic theory. I guess some of it goes out the window with ash, but still.

I don't know how to answer because I don't know what you are asking.

What I am saying about you in general is that you have played like someone who has more knowledge than other people do about alignments in the game. In other words, I think you are mafia.

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.4

witherweaver (1): iguanaiguana

Not Voting (6): Hydrad, faust, witherweaver, EgorK, Xerxes, Roadrunner

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[EgorK]

Seems like we have another hider who is scum (which would make sense as far as pps result). Faust do not make sense, he would claim something else as scum, considering he was claiming last. WW as odd night hider make sense, I need to look at others as well

[Witherweaver]

Could I really be a Hider and be able to Neighborize?

[EgorK]

Could I really be a Hider and be able to Neighborize?

I don't see why not. I am not sure it is you, just that this is consistent with results

[iguanaiguana]

Seems like we have another hider who is scum (which would make sense as far as pps result). Faust do not make sense, he would claim something else as scum, considering he was claiming last. WW as odd night hider make sense, I need to look at others as well

Would that make sense as far as you not dying when you targeted WW?

I was kinda ignoring the Egor targeting WW thing in terms of WWs scum read and realized after I didn't account for you being weak.

One thing I have noticed is some pairs in the setup.

Two jailkeeps, two doctors, etc. So two hiders makes sense to me also given the overlapping roles.

[iguanaiguana]

So I am actually inclined more to vote Xerxes now because his fakeclaim was also bad, behavior is similarly scummy but unlike WW he has no alibi from Egor

[faust]

The biggest question here, I think, is whether PPS was telling the truth. If he was, then there's a conflict between his result and EgorK's result on WW. In this case, EgorK's result is easier to mess up, so if PPS was telling the truth, WW is almost certainly scum. However, the result on Jimmmm is very confusing. The only solution I can think for it is scum hiding behind Jimmmm. Since Faust is the only one to claim hider, that makes him the most likely culprit.

Yeah, so... it makes no sense for scum!me to actually claim Hider there. I throw away Egor's town result on me and make myself suspicious because of the Jimmmmm thing... for what benefit exactly?

[faust]

So I am actually inclined more to vote Xerxes now because his fakeclaim was also bad, behavior is similarly scummy but unlike WW he has no alibi from Egor

I think we can agree on Xerxes.

Vote: Xerxes

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote Xerxes

[faust]

Roadrunner, who did you target Night 1?

He said the yellow pokemon guy: Ampharos

Hmm... so Faust/RR is possible?

I don't follow.

[iguanaiguana]

Sounds good to me!

Vote:Xerxes

[Witherweaver]

Roadrunner, who did you target Night 1?

He said the yellow pokemon guy: Ampharos

Hmm... so Faust/RR is possible?

I don't follow.

Mafiascum Hider says:

A variation of the hider applies the targetting when hidden not only on nightkills, but also with other night actions. With this variation, for example, a cop targetting the player the hider is hiding behind will get two results, for his target, and the hider.

So Hider is the only explanation so far to PPS legitimately getting two results on Jimmmm.  (He could have made it up for weird fakeclaim credibility.)   But you claimed to Hide behind Amphoras, and you "verified" that RR targetted Amphoras.  So you and RR could be lying (about your targets N1).

But as you said, why claim Hider. 

[Witherweaver]

So uh... before I get into claim analysis, let me do my claim so we're complete.

I am a Hiding Semi Beloved Princess.

Every night, I can target someone. Every action that targets me fails, and any action targetting my target will also target me. But if I target mafia, or anyone with a gun, I die. If I get nightkilled, the following Day phase is skipped and the game moves to another night.

So I tried to stay alive. Obviously I was a major target for scum.

N1 I targetted Ampharos. He seemed townie and I didn't think he'd be lynched. I got a note saying that RR targetted me.

So N2 I targetted Roadrunner. It was a hard decision between choosing the safe target and getting more info. RR seemed townie and the confirmation worth it. Also with the loud thing.

N3 I got cold feet and targetted Ampharos again. (He seemed less likely to by killed than RR) He died, but I live, so yay. I guess that must have something to do with the Bodyguard.

I have more thoughts that I will share when I get up.

Oh, or I could have actually just read your claim correctly.

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.5

Xerxes (3): faust, RR, iguanaiguana (L-1)

Not Voting (4): Hydrad, witherweaver, EgorK, Xerxes

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[faust]

So WW... thoughts on Xerxes?

[EgorK]

Interesting voting patterns this day so far

[XerxesPraelor]

I am not going to vote myself.

My reads: Faust > II > Hydrad > WW > EgorK > RR.

Scumhider!Faust is reasonable because he probably did not anticipate being stuck in this fakeclaim, and claiming as close to your actual role as possible is good to make yourself sound as plausible as possible, he was towny already without needing to use EgorK's result (and needed to claim that he hid in case someone targeted him).

[Roadrunner7671]

Yay! I am towny by everyone! That just means I'll die tonight!

[iguanaiguana]

Yay! I am towny by everyone! That just means I'll die tonight!

Nah, WW thinks you are scum.



(Of course he is probably the other scum)

[Roadrunner7671]

No, WW doesn't think I'm scum. Right, WW?

[iguanaiguana]

No, WW doesn't think I'm scum. Right, WW?

Man, I would normally contradict you here, but the more I read the more I'm convinced that manipulating Roadrunner is like the scummiest thing ever...

so I'm just going to let you think whatever you want.

See you Saturday! 

[Roadrunner7671]

No, WW doesn't think I'm scum. Right, WW?

Man, I would normally contradict you here, but the more I read the more I'm convinced that manipulating Roadrunner is like the scummiest thing ever...

so I'm just going to let you think whatever you want.

See you Saturday! 

Manipulating Roadrunner? Why would you ever want to do that?? And it'll be nice to meet you (along with others) in person to get crushed at Dominion. Oh, boy!

[iguanaiguana]

No, WW doesn't think I'm scum. Right, WW?

Man, I would normally contradict you here, but the more I read the more I'm convinced that manipulating Roadrunner is like the scummiest thing ever...

so I'm just going to let you think whatever you want.

See you Saturday! 

Manipulating Roadrunner? Why would you ever want to do that?? And it'll be nice to meet you (along with others) in person to get crushed at Dominion. Oh, boy!

I personally believe that scum spend a lot of time either
a) trying to manipulate you into voting for who they want to vote for or
b) trying to manipulate other people into voting for you

Just vote your conscience Roadrunner! Just be free!

[Roadrunner7671]

You're right, iguana!
Vote: Iguana

[iguanaiguana]

You're right, iguana!
Vote: Iguana

lol

"I'm town"

[Roadrunner7671]

You're right, iguana!
Vote: Iguana

lol

"I'm town"

I believe you.
Unvote

[faust]

I am not going to vote myself.

My reads: Faust > II > Hydrad > WW > EgorK > RR.

Scumhider!Faust is reasonable because he probably did not anticipate being stuck in this fakeclaim, and claiming as close to your actual role as possible is good to make yourself sound as plausible as possible, he was towny already without needing to use EgorK's result (and needed to claim that he hid in case someone targeted him).

...
Right, I brought up the idea of a fakeclaim, but I did not anticipate that I would have to claim. Wow, that makes a lot of sense.

[faust]

*fakeclaim=massclaim

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.6

Xerxes (2): faust, iguanaiguana (L-2)

Not Voting (5): Hydrad, witherweaver, EgorK, Xerxes, RR

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[Roadrunner7671]

Oops I forgot to put my vote back.
Vote: Xerxes

[Witherweaver]

When does today end?

[iguanaiguana]

Should be night of november 21?

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.7

Xerxes (3): faust, iguanaiguana, RR (L-1)

Not Voting (4): Hydrad, witherweaver, EgorK, Xerxes

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Day4 ends Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 10:00 pm forum time

[Witherweaver]

I'm not sure I buy the two Hider thing.  A Redirector of some kind would make more sense.  But there is a still a problem that PPS got Town and Scum, and I don't think it would occur to him to make up getting two results.  I didn't even think it was possible until I read the Hider thing.  It's possible he got two Town results and decided to falsify one of them for confusion.

Actually can you even have a scum!Hider?  Normally a Hider dies if they target Mafia, so what does a non-Town Hider mean?

[Witherweaver]

Is Xerxes' Roleblocking ability confirmed?

[Witherweaver]

I'm going to do a reread before voting anywhere.

[faust]

Is Xerxes' Roleblocking ability confirmed?

No... he targetted Jimmm N1 and N2 (who conveniently is unable to target anyone) and iguana N3. He says he got no result from that, and iguana's action is confirmed to have gone through.

[Witherweaver]

Is Xerxes' Roleblocking ability confirmed?

No... he targetted Jimmm N1 and N2 (who conveniently is unable to target anyone) and iguana N3. He says he got no result from that, and iguana's action is confirmed to have gone through.

Okay, I see.  He could have some kind of redirecting ability.

[XerxesPraelor]

Well, it looks like the way the night actions worked out messed up my results. Not much I can do about that.

Tomorrow you can try to figure out who roleblocked me. (and really, f.ds really seems to not take the opinions of dead town much into consideration, which is IMO a big mistake. Maybe you can start with me? - In GOP mafia, if town had just lynched the people I said in twilight to lynch, they would have won.)

If I had to bet I'd say the scumteam is faust/ww or II/hydrad, although I'm less certain this game than I have been in the past, but I'm really quite sure faust is fakeclaiming. (though maybe he's lying as town?)

Anyone can feel free to hammer me. I don't expect any other lynch to happen, and I think what I've just said is as much help as I can give. (and you probably wouldn't believe me even after I flip)

Edit: here's an argument: why would I claim as scum to have been roleblocked if I wasn't sure it would be confirmed? Surely scum!me would have realize this would happen.

[iguanaiguana]

unvote

Just to warn you, I'm likely to revote no matter what you say, but if you are town I would at least like to hear more about your arguments for Faust/WW before someone like say Hydrad gets a hammer in.

Also want WW to get his reread in and share his thoughts.

We have a few more days.

[iguanaiguana]

Feel free to share your thoughts about me and Hydrad too if you want. I mean, its not right but it can't hurt.

[Witherweaver]

Edit: here's an argument: why would I claim as scum to have been roleblocked if I wasn't sure it would be confirmed? Surely scum!me would have realize this would happen.

You know the answer to this: because then a "why would I do this as scum" defense applies.

[iguanaiguana]

It is a little shady that Faust claims this result that would make it super terrible for town if he dies...

Also that scumslip where he said fakeclaim instead of fullclaim.

Well okay that last part doesn't mean much...

IDK it just looks way better for Faust than for you. Youve been sheeping all game.

[Witherweaver]

It is a little shady that Faust claims this result that would make it super terrible for town if he dies...

Also that scumslip where he said fakeclaim instead of fullclaim.

Well okay that last part doesn't mean much...

IDK it just looks way better for Faust than for you. Youve been sheeping all game.

What scumslip?

[iguanaiguana]

*fakeclaim=massclaim

This. Just as likely a honest mistake tho

[faust]

Edit: here's an argument: why would I claim as scum to have been roleblocked if I wasn't sure it would be confirmed? Surely scum!me would have realize this would happen.

Maybe because you did not perform the action at all, so claiming to have done so might catch you as a liar?

[Witherweaver]

*fakeclaim=massclaim

This. Just as likely a honest mistake tho

Oh, I don't think that's a scumslip. 

[iguanaiguana]

Right. I said it probably does not mean much...

[iguanaiguana]

Are you still rereading WW?

[Witherweaver]

Yes, I've barely started.

[Witherweaver]

Of interest:

For the others all I can say is what I have said before in the rules:

All roles are standardized to the best of my abilities to what is listed in mafiascum. Some minor changes have been made to some roles and in some cases where there were multiple possibilities the mod used his own discretion.  Some roles may be considered "invented." Such roles were designed around basic mafiascum principles. All roles can be queried about after a player's death to learn more about them. See below for more details.

AND

After a player dies and flips other surviving players may PM the mod to learn an abridged description of the dead player's role. This information may not be directly quoted in the game and will not include any specific actions or results that the dead player used or obtained. The mod has pre-created a canned response for such queries for each individual role that will be used to answer these PMs.

Okay... I was expecting this sort of answer. It is even more of an answer than I had hoped for.

We should keep in mind that the roles that cannot be found here are more likely to be in the game (I think?). This will get relevant once we get to claiming.

Did anyone actually ask Yuma about a role?

[Witherweaver]

Also, there's this, and all the stuff around it:

I think I want to vote gkrieg actually. He's already done two scummy things: Tried to invalidate my read on him and made up a weak reason for a bad vote.

Vote: gkrieg

Gkrieg was Mafia.  Faust is really unlikely to do this to his partner. 

[Witherweaver]

...

Okay, so none of the roles that have flipped have been on the "no entry" list:

The list in the OP is horrible. I'm trying to make it more readable.

1-shot
Absorber, Alien, Arsonist, Ascetic
Babysitter, Backup, Beloved Princess, Bodyguard, Bomb, Bulletproof, Bus Driver
Commuter, Compassionate, Compulsive, Cop
Day, Day-X, Delayed, Deflector, Deputy, Desperado, Despondent, Detective, Doc, Doomed
Enabler, Even Number
Faith Healer, Firefighter, Follower, Friendly, Fruit Vendor
Gladiator, Godfather, Governor, Gunsmith
Hated, Harrowing, Heroic, Hider
Innocent Child, Inspired, Investigative, Investigation Immune
Jailor, Janitor, JK, Joat (of any combinations), Juvenile
Lighting Rod, Loud, Loved, Lover, Loyal
Mailman, Mason, Mentee, Mentor, Miller, Motion Detector
Neighbor, Night-X, Ninja, Novice, Nurse
Odd Number
Paranoid Gun Owning, Poisoner, Prime Number, Psychiatrist, Psychologist
Redirector, Reflexive, Roleblocker, Rolecop, Rolestopper
Seer, Self, Semi, Serial Killer, Seraph Knight, Side Kick, Simple, Strongman, Strong-willed, Suicidal, Survivor
Tracker, Traitor, Triggerer
Universal
Vengeful, Vigilante, Virgin, Voyeur
Warden, Watcher, Weak, Werewolves
x-day, x-shot

The bolded roles have no entry in the mafiascum wiki. yuma, can you tell us what they do?

What about claims?

The only one seems to be Hydrad's Psychologist.  Though Googling does find it's been used:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hard_Boiled

I think that's what Hydrad described.

[Witherweaver]

This is a really weird thing to say by RR (regarding Faust):

I wish I had two votes, cause I want to put one on faust too.   

"All I want for Christmas is an extra vote, an extra vote"

I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about the gk wagon, but I always have these thoughts about pretty much any wagon anyways, so I'm ignoring those thoughts for now.

Faust is a bad day one lynch target. If he is town, the Mafia will kill him night one.

And I agree with you about gkreig.

[iguanaiguana]

I asked for some role descriptions.

THe most interesting result was that Jimm's role specifies that the first person to target him will be shot at.

Who was the first person to target him according to our massclaim?

[iguanaiguana]

Is it possible that Ampharos died trying to target Jimmmm?

[Witherweaver]

Players:
1. WW Neighborizing one-shot bulletproof
2. silverspawn Town Tracking Compulsive Lover
3. faust Hiding semi-beloved princess
4. hydrad Vengefully psychological miller
5. gkeirg Mafia Voyeuristic Self Watcher
6. Ampharos Town Bodyguarding Even-Night Doctor
7. 2.7 Town Compulsive Investigative Lover
8. Xerxes roleblocking odd-night gunsmith
9. PPS Copping, Even-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer
10. Roadrunner compulsively loud bodyguard
11. EgorK Weak odd-night doctor
12. iguanaiguana loud babysitting jailkeeper
13. Jimmmmm Town 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owning Innocent Child
14. ash Town Delayed Ninja Jailkeeper

N1.
Faust hides behind Amph, says RR targeted him.
EgorK doctors Faust.
Hydrad psychologizes SS, "can't kill"
RR bodyguards ??
Xerxes rb/gs Jimmm, "has gun"
II jailkeeps e
WW neighborizes PPS.
PPS may kill, cops Jimmm "Town, scum"
Silverspawn dies. E dies.

N2.
Faust hides behind RR.
Hydrad targets ampharos, blocked.
RR bodyguards WW.
Xerxes RB Jimmm.
II jailkeeps Hydrad.
WW neighborizes Iguana.
PPS may kill, cops WW - "scum".
Nobody dies.

N3.
Faust hides behind Ampharos.
EgorK doctors WW.
Hydrad targets Ampharos, blocked.
RR bodyguards WW.
Xerxes RB/GS iguanaiguana, blocked.
II jailkeeps Hydrad.
WW neighborizes Faust, Faust does not appear.
Jimmmm dies. Ampharos dies.

PPE: 8

Both PPS and Xerxes target Jimmmmm Night 1. 

However, Xerxes claims to be a Roleblocker.

[iguanaiguana]

So maybe a roleblocking hider?

That would definitely explain the dual result...

[Witherweaver]

Is it possible that Ampharos died trying to target Jimmmm?

Why wouldn't Faust die though?

[Witherweaver]

So maybe a roleblocking hider?

That would definitely explain the dual result...

I'd like to find an explanation that doesn't involve *two* Hiders in the game.

[iguanaiguana]

So uh... before I get into claim analysis, let me do my claim so we're complete.

I am a Hiding Semi Beloved Princess.

Every night, I can target someone. Every action that targets me fails, and any action targetting my target will also target me. But if I target mafia, or anyone with a gun, I die. If I get nightkilled, the following Day phase is skipped and the game moves to another night.

He didn't say anything about him dying if his target dies... only if he targets someone with a gun. He targeted Ampharos.

[Witherweaver]

No, but Faust hid behind Ampharos.  So If Ampharos targets Jimmmm, Jimmmm shoots Ampharos, Faust should also get shot. 

[iguanaiguana]

Well, I mean... someone shot Ampharos and Faust is not dead....

So are we thinking that mafia targeted Faust and Ampharos bodyguarded, and somehow someone also shot Jimm in a different way?

[iguanaiguana]

Also, I just figured out that with "e" and "Silver" each night they chose lovers and died if their chosen lover died; they were not automatically each other's lovers. So... I guess "e" chose Silver? Or possibly they were each shot on night one?

Possibly other people already knew that...

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.8

Xerxes (2): faust, RR (L-2)

Not Voting (5): Hydrad, witherweaver, EgorK, Xerxes, iguanaiguana

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Day4 ends Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 10:00 pm forum time

[Witherweaver]

Well, I mean... someone shot Ampharos and Faust is not dead....

So are we thinking that mafia targeted Faust and Ampharos bodyguarded, and somehow someone also shot Jimm in a different way?

Hm.. no. Because if Faust Hides, then bodyguard on him would fail. 

Maybe Faust was Roleblocked?

[Witherweaver]

Also, I just figured out that with "e" and "Silver" each night they chose lovers and died if their chosen lover died; they were not automatically each other's lovers. So... I guess "e" chose Silver? Or possibly they were each shot on night one?

Possibly other people already knew that...

I think the choice happens before the game starts.

PPS claimed responsibility for one of the kills, I think.  Lover or Mafia could have caused the other. 

[iguanaiguana]

Also, I just figured out that with "e" and "Silver" each night they chose lovers and died if their chosen lover died; they were not automatically each other's lovers. So... I guess "e" chose Silver? Or possibly they were each shot on night one?

Possibly other people already knew that...

I think the choice happens before the game starts.

PPS claimed responsibility for one of the kills, I think.  Lover or Mafia could have caused the other.

You should pm yuma. I don't think it works like that.

[Roadrunner7671]

Sorry for lurking, but I have nothing to say.

[Witherweaver]

Also, I just figured out that with "e" and "Silver" each night they chose lovers and died if their chosen lover died; they were not automatically each other's lovers. So... I guess "e" chose Silver? Or possibly they were each shot on night one?

Possibly other people already knew that...

I think the choice happens before the game starts.

PPS claimed responsibility for one of the kills, I think.  Lover or Mafia could have caused the other.

You should pm yuma. I don't think it works like that.

Oh, wow, that is interesting.  But doesn't actually change the facts. 

[Witherweaver]

There are other possibilities.. they could have chosen other Lovers that didn't die because of various failures (protection, blocking, hiding) and they were both just coincidentally killed.  They could have chosen each other, one could have chosen one and the other's choice didn't die for whatever reason.  Or they could have died because they didn't submit a choice and the "Compulsive" part kills. 

[iguanaiguana]

Also, I just figured out that with "e" and "Silver" each night they chose lovers and died if their chosen lover died; they were not automatically each other's lovers. So... I guess "e" chose Silver? Or possibly they were each shot on night one?

Possibly other people already knew that...

I think the choice happens before the game starts.

PPS claimed responsibility for one of the kills, I think.  Lover or Mafia could have caused the other.

You should pm yuma. I don't think it works like that.

Oh, wow, that is interesting.  But doesn't actually change the facts.

Yeah I agree. But it makes me wonder how e died while I was jailkeeping him. Maybe I got roleblocked N1? Because I should have roleblocked him and he shouldn't have been able to lover anyone...

Could also be a mafia with strongman kills out there, but then how do you explain no kill N2?

[Witherweaver]

Maybe protection doesn't stop the Lover-linked kill? 

There are multiple protective/blocking roles, so a Strongman kill could have been stopped.  In which case, Hydrad would be worse because you Jailkept him, right?  Or scum could have gone after Faust Night 2.

[faust]

So uh... before I get into claim analysis, let me do my claim so we're complete.

I am a Hiding Semi Beloved Princess.

Every night, I can target someone. Every action that targets me fails, and any action targetting my target will also target me. But if I target mafia, or anyone with a gun, I die. If I get nightkilled, the following Day phase is skipped and the game moves to another night.

He didn't say anything about him dying if his target dies... only if he targets someone with a gun. He targeted Ampharos.

No, that was a mistake... I die if I target mafia or someone who performs a killing action. I clarified this earlier. Sorry about the confusion.

[faust]

No, but Faust hid behind Ampharos.  So If Ampharos targets Jimmmm, Jimmmm shoots Ampharos, Faust should also get shot.

That not how it works though, because Jimmmmm does not target me and thus him shooting Ampharos does not affect me.

[faust]

Well, I mean... someone shot Ampharos and Faust is not dead....

So are we thinking that mafia targeted Faust and Ampharos bodyguarded, and somehow someone also shot Jimm in a different way?

Hm.. no. Because if Faust Hides, then bodyguard on him would fail. 

Maybe Faust was Roleblocked?

If I hide, roleblocking on me fails also. Ampharos could have been rolestopped if you're looking for an explanation along these lines.

[faust]

But I guess then I should have been in a Neighborhood with you, so that doesn't work.

[Witherweaver]

No, but Faust hid behind Ampharos.  So If Ampharos targets Jimmmm, Jimmmm shoots Ampharos, Faust should also get shot.

That not how it works though, because Jimmmmm does not target me and thus him shooting Ampharos does not affect me.

Hmmm... I guess I could see it working either way. 

[iguanaiguana]

No, but Faust hid behind Ampharos.  So If Ampharos targets Jimmmm, Jimmmm shoots Ampharos, Faust should also get shot.

That not how it works though, because Jimmmmm does not target me and thus him shooting Ampharos does not
affect me.

Right. So it looks to me like maybe ampharos was the first nonroleblocker to target jimmm and that scum offed jim last night also.

At least thats plausible

[Witherweaver]

So uh... before I get into claim analysis, let me do my claim so we're complete.

I am a Hiding Semi Beloved Princess.

Every night, I can target someone. Every action that targets me fails, and any action targetting my target will also target me. But if I target mafia, or anyone with a gun, I die. If I get nightkilled, the following Day phase is skipped and the game moves to another night.

He didn't say anything about him dying if his target dies... only if he targets someone with a gun. He targeted Ampharos.

No, that was a mistake... I die if I target mafia or someone who performs a killing action. I clarified this earlier. Sorry about the confusion.

Someone who performs a killing action.. that night?  Not just has the ability to perform a killing action?

What would happen if you Hid behind PPS and he elected not to kill that night?

[Witherweaver]

No, but Faust hid behind Ampharos.  So If Ampharos targets Jimmmm, Jimmmm shoots Ampharos, Faust should also get shot.

That not how it works though, because Jimmmmm does not target me and thus him shooting Ampharos does not
affect me.

Right. So it looks to me like maybe ampharos was the first nonroleblocker to target jimmm and that scum offed jim last night also.

At least thats plausible

Okay, I think that makes sense.

[Witherweaver]

Wait, if scum killed Jimmmm, why did Ampharos die instead of scum?

[iguanaiguana]

Wait, if scum killed Jimmmm, why did Ampharos die instead of scum?

Look at the order of operations in the setup. Protecting actions occur before killing actions.

[iguanaiguana]

Therefore Ampharos would visit first, get shot, then scum come shoot.

[Witherweaver]

Wait, if scum killed Jimmmm, why did Ampharos die instead of scum?

Look at the order of operations in the setup. Protecting actions occur before killing actions.

Ah, okay. 

[Witherweaver]

Okay, but why would Jimmm die?  There's no reason the Bodyguard should fail to protect. 

[Witherweaver]

Okay, maybe double kill, possibly Strongman depending on interpretation:

Bodyguard only protects from a single kill. If multiple people try to kill the Bodyguard's target, both the Bodyguard and the protected player will die.

[iguanaiguana]

 I mean all we know for sure is somehow Jim died by scum but his passive pgr had either already been used or the scum was bulletproof

[Witherweaver]

I mean all we know for sure is somehow Jim died by scum but his passive pgr had either already been used or the scum was bulletproof

Yes, but if Ampharos Bodyguarded Jimmmm, he should still take the kill, even if he was already shot by Jimmmm's PGO. 

[iguanaiguana]

And e could not have been shot by jim because I jailkept. So its either jim shot amph or bp scum

[faust]

Wait.... wait!

I have something!

PPS has claimed to target Jimmmmm N1!

That is now proven wrong, right?

[faust]

So there never was a scum and town result. It was all fake for some reason.

[iguanaiguana]

Oh yeah because he was Even Night Bulletproof not odd night.

Well I wonder if he got two results on someone other than Jimm

[iguanaiguana]

Man PPS really screwed with us.

[Witherweaver]

Wait.... wait!

I have something!

PPS has claimed to target Jimmmmm N1!

That is now proven wrong, right?

Why is that?

[faust]

Wait.... wait!

I have something!

PPS has claimed to target Jimmmmm N1!

That is now proven wrong, right?

Why is that?

Because if he did, he would have died from the PGO?

[Witherweaver]

I brought that up before.  Xerxes claims to have Roleblocked Jimmm.

[faust]

I brought that up before.  Xerxes claims to have Roleblocked Jimmm.

I am slow I guess... but I don't think Roleblocking would stop passive abilities.

[faust]

From the mafiascum wiki:

A Roleblocker chooses one player per Night to block from performing his or her night action. The target's night action will not be performed -- that is, the Roleblocker blocks the target's role from working.

Jimmmmm did not have a night action, thus roleblocking him would have no effect.

[Witherweaver]

I brought that up before.  Xerxes claims to have Roleblocked Jimmm.

I am slow I guess... but I don't think Roleblocking would stop passive abilities.

But then Xerxes should be dead?

[faust]

You are right... something weird is defnitely going on here.

Chances are Xerxes lied as well. Looks like my vote is in a good place!

[Witherweaver]

In practice, roleblocked abilities are simply considered to have never happened. Thus, roles such as Tracker, Watcher, and Paranoid Gun Owner do not work if they Track/Watch/are targeted by Roleblocked actions.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker

[faust]

In practice, roleblocked abilities are simply considered to have never happened. Thus, roles such as Tracker, Watcher, and Paranoid Gun Owner do not work if they Track/Watch/are targeted by Roleblocked actions.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker

The article is definitely contradictory then I guess.

Passive abilities, such as a Bulletproof player's kill immunity or a Mason's ability to privately talk, are not affected. More simply - if the player has to submit an action to the moderator, a Roleblocker can block it.

[iguanaiguana]

Yeah lol its almost as if a couple of these claims we've gotten... ARE FAKE!!!

[Witherweaver]

I'm guessing the answer will be that he can only answer about dead player's abilities, but:

Yuma, does Roleblocking stop a Paranoid Gun Owner ability from going off?

[yuma]

I'm guessing the answer will be that he can only answer about dead player's abilities, but:

Yuma, does Roleblocking stop a Paranoid Gun Owner ability from going off?

i can't answer that question.

[XerxesPraelor]

You are right... something weird is defnitely going on here.

Chances are Xerxes lied as well. Looks like my vote is in a good place!

The simpler, and correct answer, is that we were both telling the truth.

[iguanaiguana]

Well you don't and can't know whether PPS was lying. He was a scum third party with no allies.

[faust]

I don't think this whole exchange is actually leading anywhere.

WW, what are your reads? Same question to the lurkers (Hydrad/Egor)

[EgorK]

Sorry, I've got nasty cold. Hope to be productive tomorrow

[Roadrunner7671]

I never get sick. I just play terribly and make short, unhelpful posts. Yet somehow I am basically an IC, even before our mass claim.

[Hydrad]

oh man I'm trying to follow this line of figuring out whos lying... and I am really not doing well at following it. I guess I'll just leave it to the pros.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, so, Gkrieg interactions:

Interestingly, these happened right after another:

Vote: gkreig
Sorry for all my voting and unvoting recently.

SS has put up an excellent case.
PPE

- ash is voting for me. Historically, the people ash wants lynched day 1 are pretty much always town.

Okay - unvote. (although I'm unvoting from PPS, because he's convinced me)

I guess vote: gkrieg seems like the best option so far (i'm actually thinking about maybe ash...)

The first is L-1 and the second is the hammer, though he apparently doesn't realize it. 

Roadrunner just recently flipped from avoiding Gkrieg for a while:

I want to post, but this is going to be a pretty empty post.

I do not want to kill PPS or gkreig. I may kill SS or Hydrad. I like my vote rigjt now.

I have stated this many times: I don't have the stomach to lynch gkreig.

If he flips scum, I could be in trouble. But I like my vote where it is.

Except he does this somewhere earlier, which is weird:

Watson, I have cracked the case!

Gkreig, POS and SS are all scum! PPS and SS decided to cut their loses and vote for gkreig! Great scott!
Obviously, I'm probably wrong.

Vote: gkreig
He's at L-1 now
PPE: 2

And two posts later:

Unvote thid isn't hammer time.

Xerxes on Gkrieg:

Anyone want to explain? I'm actually thinking gkrieg is likely to be town here after his most recent posts.

Also, I think silverspawn makes some good points. vote: hydrad

makes sense

so... PPS never actually said that his new role doesn't have a posting restriction. He just said that he misunderstood it.

But I'm fine with not lynching him. gkrieg is still good, I found his reaction to pressure, well, scummy for not being towny, basically. I often do get town vibes from people if they are under pressure.

vote: gkrieg

"scummy isn't good enough"

This post sounds like frustrated town, who feels like they're going to be lynched and any argument they put up will be ignored.

And can someone point out what silverspawn did that was scummy? I don't see that either.

Hmm, faust's sorta-case on you is interesting. Looks like there's deadline though, so we need a lynch. I guess I have to decide between doing nothing, voting gkrieg, or voting silverspawn very quickly. gkrieg is okay, I think his flip would give some good information either way, but I think he's more likely than not by a bit to flip town. silverspawn is active and pro-town, which makes lynching him unappealable. A PPS lynch would be best I think, but it's not really happening yet. I guess I'll wait a bit, and if at deadline there's no lynch I'll vote gkrieg.

And then he hammers.

Hmm...

I'll go Vote: silverspawn here

Why?

hmm it was mainly to get a wagon competing with gkreig there. The only other option was me... and I don't really want to do that.

that being said though usually when I do a competing wagon I'm fine with their lynch and don't have much preference.

This time though I think I'm actually slightly in favor of the gkrieg lynch although I am slightly worried how it seems to be the only option in this day as if that happens I think its usually not scum.

Interesting, and a town point for Hydrad.  (You don't usually say you're trying to get a competing wagon with your partner.)  He never votes Gkrieg, and doesn't say anything else about it. 

[Witherweaver]

On the other hand, Hydrad's day 1 is mostly empty talk, a classic scum!Hydrad thing.  And we have the Hydrad being Jailkept with no kill Night 2 thing. 

[Witherweaver]

And I guess he's finally back.

[Witherweaver]

And I still have a problem with the Hider/double result weirdness.

[faust]

oh man I'm trying to follow this line of figuring out whos lying... and I am really not doing well at following it. I guess I'll just leave it to the pros.

Try harder.

[Witherweaver]

So uh... before I get into claim analysis, let me do my claim so we're complete.

I am a Hiding Semi Beloved Princess.

Every night, I can target someone. Every action that targets me fails, and any action targetting my target will also target me. But if I target mafia, or anyone with a gun, I die. If I get nightkilled, the following Day phase is skipped and the game moves to another night.

He didn't say anything about him dying if his target dies... only if he targets someone with a gun. He targeted Ampharos.

No, that was a mistake... I die if I target mafia or someone who performs a killing action. I clarified this earlier. Sorry about the confusion.

Someone who performs a killing action.. that night?  Not just has the ability to perform a killing action?

What would happen if you Hid behind PPS and he elected not to kill that night?

Faust did you ever answer this?

[faust]

So uh... before I get into claim analysis, let me do my claim so we're complete.

I am a Hiding Semi Beloved Princess.

Every night, I can target someone. Every action that targets me fails, and any action targetting my target will also target me. But if I target mafia, or anyone with a gun, I die. If I get nightkilled, the following Day phase is skipped and the game moves to another night.

He didn't say anything about him dying if his target dies... only if he targets someone with a gun. He targeted Ampharos.

No, that was a mistake... I die if I target mafia or someone who performs a killing action. I clarified this earlier. Sorry about the confusion.

Someone who performs a killing action.. that night?  Not just has the ability to perform a killing action?

What would happen if you Hid behind PPS and he elected not to kill that night?

Faust did you ever answer this?

Must have missed it. Only if they perform the killing. Only with mafia do I die every time.

[Witherweaver]

That's... odd.

[Hydrad]

oh man I'm trying to follow this line of figuring out whos lying... and I am really not doing well at following it. I guess I'll just leave it to the pros.

Try harder.

I will do my best

[Hydrad]

ok I still like xerses I think... although the whole double check by PPS and the hider by faust brings is suspicious. But then if faust was scum he probably wouldn't claim that... but then WIFOM... but then theres this thing about PPS may have not even targetted Jimmm? But why would he claim that he did...

There is so much going on but I think I'm wrapping my head around it.

[faust]

I mean, there is a reason for PPS to lie there... as a SK, he is in for the long game. Creating ICs by copping is eventually going to come back at him because he will be caught by PoE. An ambiguous result is better.

[Hydrad]

I mean, there is a reason for PPS to lie there... as a SK, he is in for the long game. Creating ICs by copping is eventually going to come back at him because he will be caught by PoE. An ambiguous result is better.

thats a good point.

[Witherweaver]

You think he came up with the idea of getting two results?  I did not even know that could happen.

[Witherweaver]

I don't believe Faust.  I don't like the way his claim reads and I don't like the weirdness.  And I just think he's lying.

[EgorK]

Let's not hammer right now. I think we have a lot of info of claims that we do not fully use right now. Also there was that ash weirdness D2 that is worth investigating

[faust]

I don't believe Faust.  I don't like the way his claim reads and I don't like the weirdness.  And I just think he's lying.

Well, can you bring some actual points against me? Because just voting for gut reasons is not good enough at this point.

[Witherweaver]

I don't believe Faust.  I don't like the way his claim reads and I don't like the weirdness.  And I just think he's lying.

Well, can you bring some actual points against me? Because just voting for gut reasons is not good enough at this point.

It's good enough if I'm right.

I realized this: my role specifically says I target a player to create a QT with them.  If you are untargettable, my action should fail and I should not create a QT, not just you wouldn't receive the link.  But I did create it, and I posted in it. 

It doesn't make sense, as a town Hider, that you die if you target someone that performs a killing action.  Since when did Hiding behind a Vig kill a Hider?

I don't believe PPS made up getting two results; that's not something that would occur to any of us to make up.  Plus based on our QT discussion, I don't buy it.  You're the only Hider and the only thing that explains two results.  It's possible that he lied about receiving Guilty, but still he targetted Jimmm (he also claimed this in the QT the night before) and you claimed to hide behind Ampharos. So that leaves.. a Redirection from PPS's actions to Ampharos.  Or those targetting Jimmmm to Ampharos, which would contradict XP's claim. 

You don't seem to be analyzing the night actions and possibilities, which seems very out of character. 

[iguanaiguana]

It's good enough if I'm right.

ALL RIGHT!!!!!!!!

The case on Faust!! Let's do this!!

This might take a while... I have a lot to say.

[Roadrunner7671]

Unvote

WW told me this was simple Mafia. I can hardly follow this thread. The roles and interactions are some of the most complicated things I have ever seen.

If anyone needs me, you'll need to put my name in capital letters (whether RR or ROADRUNNER).

[iguanaiguana]

In this post, I am going to explore the possiblity that Faust is mafia. We're going to call this case...

FAUST: The Villainous Mastermind

In this case, Faust is the-man-with-the-evil-plan who decided to bus his partner day one in order to get an insane amount of towncred, and is now doing his best to ride out the rest of the game by scoffing at all consideration towards himself as scum. Here, BY FAR his most likely partner (although nothing is certain!) is EgorK (more on this later).

Unlikely partners include Roadrunner (he's totally town), and Witherweaver (who would have no incentive to start bussing Faust at this moment, when he could have easily hammered Xerxes earlier this day.) Xerxes is slightly more likely, though Faust's pushing for him so hard right now makes that chance seem quite small indeed. 

Hydrad is a possible partner, of course. Given his small contributions so far, he's made himself difficult to read. That said, I am inclined to believe Hydrad's claim because it was weird and sounded cool. So, I don't really think that Hydrad is scum. Also, he's my bro and I don't want to lynch him (If I ever play another game of mafia, you will hear me say this most likely again and again.)

SO: Why EgorK? Well, let's look at Faust's first statement in the game:

Hi.

Egor is totally town. As to why he claimed wha he did, I have no clue. I mean, I could try to match the various roles that are possible this game with Doctor, and see if any of them leads to him being willing to claim... I don't see the upside of this exercise though.

Also, I agree with silver.

Vote: e

Here we are getting down into the very essence of the Faust/Egor/Gkrieg scumteam. On N0, they crafted a plan. Gkrieg would be the not-so-obvious scum that Faust would use his "masterfully crafted scumhunting powers(TM)" to take out, and EgorK would be the lurker for whom Faust would repeatedly and stubbornly vouch Towncred. Egor would claim a role from the very beginning (doctor) and Faust would come out saying at the very beginning that such a claim made him obv!town.

In fact, Faust lays it all out for us himself a few posts later:

Of course if I were a scum team member choosing who should do this gambit, I would choose Egor for this exact reason.

How simple and yet how effective! Lay out your own evil plan in the main thread; in fact, do so casually on day one. And for the rest of the game no one will ever suspect you of hatching it. NO ONE.... UNTIL NOW!!!!

Then, there are Faust's interactions with Gkrieg. The more I read over them, the stranger they look. Was Gkrieg scummy? Sure, maybe a little. But Faust didn't just *think* that Gkrieg was scummy, he acted as though he was sure of it!

First, he gives a relatively weak case for Gkrieg, then he complains about the fact that other players are voting for Gkrieg based on it, calling us sheep, knowing all the while that we are doing exactly what he wants: voting for the scumpartner that he wants to bus, and making him look like the greatest scumhunting genius to ever live. As Gkrieg's defenses of himself get a little more frantic, and some people (like Xerxes) start questioning whether or not its a very good lynch, Faust just sits back and quotes everything that Gkrieg says, saying things like:

And here I was hoping you'd give a townie answer to that question. Oh well.

and

If you're going for "too scummy to be scum", you going to have to put in more effort.

At the end of the day, the scene is mastercrafted. People on the Gkrieg wagon (like Faust) get a million town points, while people who questioned it are considered scummy for doing so. Even now, we are ready to lynch Xerxes mainly because on D1 he was quesitoning a lynch that had very little evidence behind it, and we haven't given any serious attention to the consideration that Egor may be scum even though he's done little but lurk through the entire game. Why? Because Faust has maintained that Egor is definitely town, unwaveringly, this entire time.

Okay, that is day one. I am dumping this and then I will start on day two/three

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.9

Xerxes (1): faust

Not Voting (6): Hydrad, witherweaver, EgorK, Xerxes, iguanaiguana, RR

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Day4 ends Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 10:00 pm forum time

[iguanaiguana]

DAY 2

During Day 2, we see the plan of the Egor/Faust scum team continue to unfold. Faust knows that as town putting up such a heroic performance, he's going to need to create as many reasons for his continued survival as possible. Thus, Egor's doctor claim is perfect for their team because it gives Faust an obvious alibi for surviving the night. Oh, Egor doctored me, and I didn't get killed. In fact, weak doctor is even better: now Egor can both vouch for Faust's continued survival AND vouch for Faust's alignment.

What doesn't make sense though is why Egor, a claimed doctor D1, didn't get killed N1. In fact, it doesn't really make sense at all that Egor wouldn't have been the mafia's top scum target. Another reason that Egor is likely to be mafia.

Thus, although they are setting up for Faust to orchestrate and interpret a massclaim on Day 4, at this point they are just breadcrumbing. And with Ashersky putting on a show to distract everyone, they don't even need to try very hard to get their mislynch through.

Okay, dumping again! DAY 3 Coming up next!!

[iguanaiguana]

DAY 3:

So here I think mainly I want to talk about Faust's interactions with PPS on Day 1 and Day 3.

So on D1, PPS comes out with his fakeclaim, and initially Faust votes for him. But after PPS claims to have had a simple misunderstanding about having a posting restriction, Faust is very quick to back off (Post #264 here) Looking back, it looks a bit odd. I remember thinking that PPS' fakeclaim actually looked quite scummy, and wanted to continue voting for him. However, without knowledge of PPS' meta, I decided to trust Faust. But looking at it again, it looks a lot like Faust (as mafia) knew that PPS' had a very good chance of being town, and wanted to back off from him to continue his original plan of bussing.

Then, in Day 3, Faust returns to PPS with a new vigor. Here, he spearheads the campaign to lynch PPS. All of this of course serves his greater purpose of making himself look like a hero to the town. But its notable that we didn't find scum that day, we found a serial killer. It was the only kind of scum that we will be able to find as long as we continue to trust Faust.

Alright, D4  (today) is where things get really scummy. Let's do it!!!!

[iguanaiguana]

I meant to say "Its notable we didn't find mafia, we found a serial killer"

Obviously a serial killer is still scum.

[faust]

Well, I appreciate the exercise. I will address points that I feel need addressing.

In this case, Faust is the-man-with-the-evil-plan who decided to bus his partner day one in order to get an insane amount of towncred, and is now doing his best to ride out the rest of the game by scoffing at all consideration towards himself as scum. Here, BY FAR his most likely partner (although nothing is certain!) is EgorK (more on this later).

This argument already runs into the problem that I had a scum game where I bussed my partner gkrieg hard on D1. It's M65 in case you want to read it up. I won this game. Do you really think I would pull the same trick again? This is also bad because this is RMM, and it is much more dangerous for scum to kill off their own because they lose more powers and other scum can always be found out even if they have lots of towncred.

Here we are getting down into the very essence of the Faust/Egor/Gkrieg scumteam. On N0, they crafted a plan. Gkrieg would be the not-so-obvious scum that Faust would use his "masterfully crafted scumhunting powers(TM)" to take out, and EgorK would be the lurker for whom Faust would repeatedly and stubbornly vouch Towncred. Egor would claim a role from the very beginning (doctor) and Faust would come out saying at the very beginning that such a claim made him obv!town.

Okay, I mean, you can go read my scum QTs from previous game. I don't make strange evil plans on N0. Instead, I hold the firm belief that it's best to let things happen naturally. And what's more, this plan is shit. Scum claiming on D1 can easily be found out to be fakeclaiming by various PRs. And once Egor is dead, how do I look? No, if you call me a villainous mastermind, I expect you to assume that I can cook up a plan that is actually good for my team instead of this.

Then, there are Faust's interactions with Gkrieg. The more I read over them, the stranger they look. Was Gkrieg scummy? Sure, maybe a little. But Faust didn't just *think* that Gkrieg was scummy, he acted as though he was sure of it!

Again, read my other games. I always act more certain than I actually am. It gives more reactions. Saying "um, I dont know, gkrieg might be a bit scummy here" will not force him to react; saying "you're obv!scum" will.

And here I was hoping you'd give a townie answer to that question. Oh well.

I geniunely hoped that, by the way. If I remember correctly, it was a question that it would have been very easy to react townie towards. At that point I was not sold on the gkrieg lynch.

At the end of the day, the scene is mastercrafted. People on the Gkrieg wagon (like Faust) get a million town points, while people who questioned it are considered scummy for doing so. Even now, we are ready to lynch Xerxes mainly because on D1 he was quesitoning a lynch that had very little evidence behind it, and we haven't given any serious attention to the consideration that Egor may be scum even though he's done little but lurk through the entire game. Why? Because Faust has maintained that Egor is definitely town, unwaveringly, this entire time.

I don't know about you guys, but that is so not my reason to vote for Xerxes.

[iguanaiguana]

So Day4 is where Faust knows that his continued survival is starting to look scummy in and of itself. Thus, he tries to start off the day by keeping the ball in his own court as much as possible. Here is his first post:

I'm in favor of a massclaim.

So right away, Faust is trying to direct the day to center around a massclaim. Faust already has his fakeclaim sorted out, he's already made some other players look scummy, his partner has breadcrumbed a false role, and he's ready to pick apart everybody else. The more power we give him here, the better for him: He can assign us all a star rating to our claims, knowing that all of them except for Egor's and his own are true, and he's hoping that we will go along with whatever he thinks for the lynch.

Here he is, again, taking control:

Interesting. Now I think we have to do the claiming thing. I'll think of an order. Or maybe someone else wants? I feel like I am the towniest player here though.

Then it gets even more controlling, with this:

Once we're through, I will assign each claim a star ranking.

Hydrad is next.

What's he doing here? In a subtle way, he's invalidating everyone else's reads by saying that he's going to do an authoritative read for everyone when the claims are done with.

After these shenanigans come Faust's claim. And how convenient! He's a hider, which has helped him to hide from scum until now... and also a beloved princess!

(Short aside: how fitting and cute. Faust: our beloved princess)

What that means for him is that we are all now scared to kill him, because if we do and he is town we lose the game.

Then, after his claim, Faust get hard at work at invalidating all of our reads that do not agree with his own reads:

Well, all you say is true... but if I run through the scenarios for scum!WW, they just don't make any sense. And Egor is so towny.

Yeah, so... it makes no sense for scum!me to actually claim Hider there. I throw away Egor's town result on me and make myself suspicious because of the Jimmmmm thing... for what benefit exactly?

...
Right, I brought up the idea of a fakeclaim, but I did not anticipate that I would have to claim. Wow, that makes a lot of sense.

And then finally, when he's afraid that we may actually be exposing holes in the story that he himself has been crafting, he says this:

I don't think this whole exchange is actually leading anywhere.

Why? To distract us away from finding evidence that might incriminate him. Because Scum!Faust knows that basically all he needs is for us to lynch Xerxes right now and the game is in the bag for him.

[faust]

During Day 2, we see the plan of the Egor/Faust scum team continue to unfold. Faust knows that as town putting up such a heroic performance, he's going to need to create as many reasons for his continued survival as possible. Thus, Egor's doctor claim is perfect for their team because it gives Faust an obvious alibi for surviving the night. Oh, Egor doctored me, and I didn't get killed. In fact, weak doctor is even better: now Egor can both vouch for Faust's continued survival AND vouch for Faust's alignment.

This is a thought exercise, right? You are starting out with the assumption that I am the scum and Egor is my partner and see where it leads you? Because if not, then all this stuff is horribly biased.

You are aware of course that the above does not make the faintest amount of sense in the light of my claim. I have breadcrumbed my role since the start of D1, so if I always wanted to claim that, doing this with Egor makes no sense.

What doesn't make sense though is why Egor, a claimed doctor D1, didn't get killed N1. In fact, it doesn't really make sense at all that Egor wouldn't have been the mafia's top scum target. Another reason that Egor is likely to be mafia.

Maybe because of the fact that Egor claimed? Like, the fact that he claimed changes stuff... he seemed willing to attract the nightkill, so of course scum will think twice before shooting. Also Doctor is not even a very strong role.

PPE 1

[faust]

So on D1, PPS comes out with his fakeclaim, and initially Faust votes for him. But after PPS claims to have had a simple misunderstanding about having a posting restriction, Faust is very quick to back off (Post #264 here) Looking back, it looks a bit odd. I remember thinking that PPS' fakeclaim actually looked quite scummy, and wanted to continue voting for him. However, without knowledge of PPS' meta, I decided to trust Faust. But looking at it again, it looks a lot like Faust (as mafia) knew that PPS' had a very good chance of being town, and wanted to back off from him to continue his original plan of bussing.

Eh, so I'm scummy because I disagreed with you?

Then, in Day 3, Faust returns to PPS with a new vigor. Here, he spearheads the campaign to lynch PPS. All of this of course serves his greater purpose of making himself look like a hero to the town. But its notable that we didn't find scum that day, we found a serial killer. It was the only kind of scum that we will be able to find as long as we continue to trust Faust.

How would spearheading a lynch that for all scum!me knows would be a mislynch make myself look like a hero? I am confused.

[iguanaiguana]

There should be a PPE on that last post because now Faust is picking it all apart.

What I am saying is this: If you are scum, this is how you did it. Whether you are town or scum, you will be inclined to say that this whole explanation looks stupid. Well, to me, it looks pretty good, even if I didn't get all of the reasoning correct.

Are you scum? I don't know. At this point, I am positive that 1 of WW, Xerxes or Faust has to be scum. Egor could also be scum, I don't know about that.

I have serious doubts about either Hydrad or RR being scum. Both of their claims look solid to me.

I can tell you though with absolute certainty that of the three possible lynches, I would be most satisfied with yours. This goes all the way back to the beginning when you tried to make me your pet iguana and then yelled at me for "sheeping" you.

[iguanaiguana]

This is a thought exercise, right? You are starting out with the assumption that I am the scum and Egor is my partner and see where it leads you? Because if not, then all this stuff is horribly biased.

Yes, it is a thought exercise. I don't want anyone to get through the day without any scrutiny.

[iguanaiguana]

Eh, so I'm scummy because I disagreed with you?

No, it looks scummy because it looks like you didn't want to lynch someone Day 1 unless you were 100% sure that they actually were scum, which scum!you already had in the form of Gkrieg.

How would spearheading a lynch that for all scum!me knows would be a mislynch make myself look like a hero? I am confused.

At this point scum!you had enough evidence to be very sure that PPS was a third party scum!team. It probably helped that there was a kill N1 that your team was not responsible for.  So you approach the lynch with gleeful abandon.

[Witherweaver]

Why do Hydrad's and RR's claims look solid?

[faust]

So right away, Faust is trying to direct the day to center around a massclaim. Faust already has his fakeclaim sorted out, he's already made some other players look scummy, his partner has breadcrumbed a false role, and he's ready to pick apart everybody else. The more power we give him here, the better for him: He can assign us all a star rating to our claims, knowing that all of them except for Egor's and his own are true, and he's hoping that we will go along with whatever he thinks for the lynch.

There is no content in this paragraph. You're just agitating.

Here he is, again, taking control:

Interesting. Now I think we have to do the claiming thing. I'll think of an order. Or maybe someone else wants? I feel like I am the towniest player here though.

What's he doing here? In a subtle way, he's invalidating everyone else's reads by saying that he's going to do an authoritative read for everyone when the claims are done with.

Hey, everyone else could have done the same thing; I din't stop them. Don't blame the fact that this town is lazy on me!

What that means for him is that we are all now scared to kill him, because if we do and he is town we lose the game.

Only that had you actually read my claim, you would know that my Beloved-Princess-ness does not trigger upon lynch, so you have zero reason to be scared.

Then, after his claim, Faust get hard at work at invalidating all of our reads that do not agree with his own reads:

[posts]

Or you could have said I was sharing my reads, participating in the discussion and defending myself, which, you know, is the towny thing to do. But by now you grasp at every straw to make me look scummy. Why?

Why? To distract us away from finding evidence that might incriminate him. Because Scum!Faust knows that basically all he needs is for us to lynch Xerxes right now and the game is in the bag for him.

Well, yeah, I think Xerxes is a good lynch. My analysis had led me to believe that Xerxes is a good lynch and despite everything you're rambling about nobody has so far pointed out inconsistencies in my analysis.

Also, why would the game be in the bag for me after lynching Xerxes?

PPE 4

[iguanaiguana]

Why do Hydrad's and RR's claims look solid?

I know both of them better than most of the people in this game, and don't think that either of them would have made those roles up. Particularly RR, but also Hydrad.

I mean, Psychologizing whatever miller is a really weird role.

[faust]

I can tell you though with absolute certainty that of the three possible lynches, I would be most satisfied with yours. This goes all the way back to the beginning when you tried to make me your pet iguana and then yelled at me for "sheeping" you.

Ah right, so (to channel RR) this is personal. I never intended to insult you, sorry if it came across that way.

[Witherweaver]

Why do Hydrad's and RR's claims look solid?

I know both of them better than most of the people in this game, and don't think that either of them would have made those roles up. Particularly RR, but also Hydrad.

I mean, Psychologizing whatever miller is a really weird role.

Well, yes, but they do have an entire list of roles to choose from, and they could talk about it ahead of time.  Plus, that can simply be their real role, but they're scum.

[faust]

This is a thought exercise, right? You are starting out with the assumption that I am the scum and Egor is my partner and see where it leads you? Because if not, then all this stuff is horribly biased.

Yes, it is a thought exercise. I don't want anyone to get through the day without any scrutiny.

That's fair. But in that case it would be a good thing to look at my response and figure out whether or not I am sincere... which you may be trying to do? I don't know. Your previous post read like you wanted to ignore everything I respond.

[iguanaiguana]

I can tell you though with absolute certainty that of the three possible lynches, I would be most satisfied with yours. This goes all the way back to the beginning when you tried to make me your pet iguana and then yelled at me for "sheeping" you.

Ah right, so (to channel RR) this is personal. I never intended to insult you, sorry if it came across that way.

I'd rather channel you and say it's

Not game-related.

[faust]

I don't want to say too much about the PPS issue, but non-game-related issues may have caused me to push his lynch more mercilessly than I would have done otherwise.

[iguanaiguana]

Why do Hydrad's and RR's claims look solid?

I know both of them better than most of the people in this game, and don't think that either of them would have made those roles up. Particularly RR, but also Hydrad.

I mean, Psychologizing whatever miller is a really weird role.

Well, yes, but they do have an entire list of roles to choose from, and they could talk about it ahead of time.  Plus, that can simply be their real role, but they're scum.

That's fair for RR, but you can't be miller scum, can you?

[faust]

I can tell you though with absolute certainty that of the three possible lynches, I would be most satisfied with yours. This goes all the way back to the beginning when you tried to make me your pet iguana and then yelled at me for "sheeping" you.

Ah right, so (to channel RR) this is personal. I never intended to insult you, sorry if it came across that way.

I'd rather channel you and say it's

Not game-related.

Well, you bringing it into the game makes it game-related. (As did my post at the time - for which I apologize)

[Witherweaver]

Ah, that's a good point.

[iguanaiguana]

This is a thought exercise, right? You are starting out with the assumption that I am the scum and Egor is my partner and see where it leads you? Because if not, then all this stuff is horribly biased.

Yes, it is a thought exercise. I don't want anyone to get through the day without any scrutiny.

That's fair. But in that case it would be a good thing to look at my response and figure out whether or not I am sincere... which you may be trying to do? I don't know. Your previous post read like you wanted to ignore everything I respond.

I am looking at your responses. And as much as I want you to be scum right now, I do think you are sincere.

Dammit.

Vote: XerxesPraelor

[Witherweaver]

I don't think Faust is sincere. 

[iguanaiguana]

I've gotta go vacuum hallways.

Only 6.5 days left on this deadend job that lets me play forum mafia at work!




Woo!

[iguanaiguana]

Actually, before I go:

I changed my mind.

Vote: Faust

[faust]

WW also deserves a response.

It's good enough if I'm right.

I realized this: my role specifically says I target a player to create a QT with them.  If you are untargettable, my action should fail and I should not create a QT, not just you wouldn't receive the link.  But I did create it, and I posted in it.

Well, did you ask yuma what would happen in such a scenario? If this is really true, that would have interesting implications. Why would scum!me choose not to post in such a QT though?

It doesn't make sense, as a town Hider, that you die if you target someone that performs a killing action.  Since when did Hiding behind a Vig kill a Hider?

I assume the clause is there so that I would die if I hide behind PPS. What sense does it make for scum!me not just to claim the standard Hider?

I don't believe PPS made up getting two results; that's not something that would occur to any of us to make up.  Plus based on our QT discussion, I don't buy it.  You're the only Hider and the only thing that explains two results.  It's possible that he lied about receiving Guilty, but still he targetted Jimmm (he also claimed this in the QT the night before) and you claimed to hide behind Ampharos. So that leaves.. a Redirection from PPS's actions to Ampharos.  Or those targetting Jimmmm to Ampharos, which would contradict XP's claim.

Obviously scum lies. I agree that it seems a strange thing for PPS to make up, and I am not sold on the theory that he did make it up, but well there might be reasons to do that. And I find it very strange that nobody died from targetting Jimmmmm N1.

You don't seem to be analyzing the night actions and possibilities, which seems very out of character.

Did you actually read my posts? My vote, my reads all are heavily influenced by the N3 analysis I made. I did not make similar analyses for previous nights because there where more players we don't know about and thus more variables. I was also petty happy with the results I got from looking into D3.

[faust]

I don't think Faust is sincere.

Well that's great. Reasons are unnecessary.

[faust]

It is notable that iguana only started all this after WW said he thinks Im scummy.

[faust]

There are no responses to be points I made because they are valid points and iguana cannot come up with good counterarguments. Neither can WW.

All this of course fits with the iguana/Xerxes team I still think most likely.

[iguanaiguana]

This is a question for Town!Faust, who may or may not exist in this game.

At this point with how WW is treating you, can you now see the narrative for a Xerxes/WW scum team?

Because I am now convinced the team is either Xerxes/WW or Faust/Egor. Any other pairing is just really unlikely in my view.

[iguanaiguana]

Also, if we lynch you and you are town, how do I still win?

[faust]

This is a question for Town!Faust, who may or may not exist in this game.

At this point with how WW is treating you, can you now see the narrative for a Xerxes/WW scum team?

Because I am now convinced the team is either Xerxes/WW or Faust/Egor. Any other pairing is just really unlikely in my view.

It is definitely still a possibility. I think either Xerxes/you or Xerxes/WW. Which is why I vastly prefer a Xerxes lynch to anything else.

[faust]

Also, if we lynch you and you are town, how do I still win?

I don't understand what you mean.

[iguanaiguana]

It is notable that iguana only started all this after WW said he thinks Im scummy.

 I do not deny for a second that WW plantes the seed of suspicion in my mind and I am fully aware that I could be getting manipulated by scum.

It is beyond me however how anyone could think me anything more than a townie flailing about in the dark and grasping at straws. It should be clear by now that I have no plan of any sort.

[faust]

I am also not completely happy with Hydrad, his play is scummy... but I don't see who his partner could be.

[Witherweaver]

WW also deserves a response.

It's good enough if I'm right.

I realized this: my role specifically says I target a player to create a QT with them.  If you are untargettable, my action should fail and I should not create a QT, not just you wouldn't receive the link.  But I did create it, and I posted in it.

Well, did you ask yuma what would happen in such a scenario? If this is really true, that would have interesting implications. Why would scum!me choose not to post in such a QT though?

I asked; we'll see if I can get an answer.  The only reason I can think of was that you already intended to claim to Hide last night, or needed to leave the possibility open.  Or you believed it would help validate your claim, as you thought it would confirm you.

It doesn't make sense, as a town Hider, that you die if you target someone that performs a killing action.  Since when did Hiding behind a Vig kill a Hider?

I assume the clause is there so that I would die if I hide behind PPS. What sense does it make for scum!me not just to claim the standard Hider?

Why isn't it non-Town, though?

I don't believe PPS made up getting two results; that's not something that would occur to any of us to make up.  Plus based on our QT discussion, I don't buy it.  You're the only Hider and the only thing that explains two results.  It's possible that he lied about receiving Guilty, but still he targetted Jimmm (he also claimed this in the QT the night before) and you claimed to hide behind Ampharos. So that leaves.. a Redirection from PPS's actions to Ampharos.  Or those targetting Jimmmm to Ampharos, which would contradict XP's claim.

Obviously scum lies. I agree that it seems a strange thing for PPS to make up, and I am not sold on the theory that he did make it up, but well there might be reasons to do that. And I find it very strange that nobody died from targetting Jimmmmm N1.

It is explained by Xerxes result.

You don't seem to be analyzing the night actions and possibilities, which seems very out of character.

Did you actually read my posts? My vote, my reads all are heavily influenced by the N3 analysis I made. I did not make similar analyses for previous nights because there where more players we don't know about and thus more variables. I was also petty happy with the results I got from looking into D3.

Well, a big feeling of that was this post:

I don't think this whole exchange is actually leading anywhere.

WW, what are your reads? Same question to the lurkers (Hydrad/Egor)

which just felt dismissive of trying to figure out what happened, which (I think) was different than things that you had said.  But maybe you had just already thought through all of these.  Still, there was new info from answers from Yuma on how roles work.

PPEs

[iguanaiguana]

Also, if we lynch you and you are town, how do I still win?

I don't understand what you mean.

Explain to me this. If we mislynch today, what is town's best path to victory?

[faust]

It is explained by Xerxes result.

I think I just refuse to believe that yuma would have Roleblocker/PGO work that way. It feels very wrong.

[iguanaiguana]

It is explained by Xerxes result.

I think I just refuse to believe that yuma would have Roleblocker/PGO work that way. It feels very wrong.

Every single role in this game is weird! N1 I jailkept a dude who got to pick a lover every night and he died anyway.

[faust]

Also, if we lynch you and you are town, how do I still win?

I don't understand what you mean.

Explain to me this. If we mislynch today, what is town's best path to victory?

Mislynch me, or anyone?

Well, if I should be lynched, Much is going to depend on you, iguana, assuming you're town. You role is one of the stronger ones claimed. You would know the scum team is Xerxes/WW, so you target one of them. They cannot kill you (because then one of them would die) and the kill may be blocked. I think things are not looking so bad from there.

If you're scum of course, it's going to be much tougher. But I don't assume that's what you want to know about.

[Roadrunner7671]

Why do Hydrad's and RR's claims look solid?

I know both of them better than most of the people in this game, and don't think that either of them would have made those roles up. Particularly RR, but also Hydrad.

I mean, Psychologizing whatever miller is a really weird role.

No offense man, but I am not going to claim to know you until after Saturday 

[faust]

Hydrad's role irks me. It seems way OP. I may have to look again into Hydrad partners.

[iguanaiguana]

Also, if we lynch you and you are town, how do I still win?

I don't understand what you mean.

Explain to me this. If we mislynch today, what is town's best path to victory?

Mislynch me, or anyone?

Well, if I should be lynched, Much is going to depend on you, iguana, assuming you're town. You role is one of the stronger ones claimed. You would know the scum team is Xerxes/WW, so you target one of them. They cannot kill you (because then one of them would die) and the kill may be blocked. I think things are not looking so bad from there.

If you're scum of course, it's going to be much tougher. But I don't assume that's what you want to know about.

Ok that makes perfect sense. So now tell me what I should do if we lynch Xerxes amd he flips town. Lead me down that path.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, I got a response from Yuma.  I was wrong; my role functions by creating a QT, being given access, and attempting to give access to my target all happening simultaneously.  So it reads to me if my target is Rolestopped/Commuting/Hiding, I will indeed get access to my QT, but my target will not.

This abates my suspicion of Faust some.

PPE

[iguanaiguana]

Why do Hydrad's and RR's claims look solid?

I know both of them better than most of the people in this game, and don't think that either of them would have made those roles up. Particularly RR, but also Hydrad.

I mean, Psychologizing whatever miller is a really weird role.

No offense man, but I am not going to claim to know you until after Saturday 

I just mean we have had a few short conversations out of this game for me to know you a bit better than say Xerxes.

[faust]

Also, if we lynch you and you are town, how do I still win?

I don't understand what you mean.

Explain to me this. If we mislynch today, what is town's best path to victory?

Mislynch me, or anyone?

Well, if I should be lynched, Much is going to depend on you, iguana, assuming you're town. You role is one of the stronger ones claimed. You would know the scum team is Xerxes/WW, so you target one of them. They cannot kill you (because then one of them would die) and the kill may be blocked. I think things are not looking so bad from there.

If you're scum of course, it's going to be much tougher. But I don't assume that's what you want to know about.

Ok that makes perfect sense. So now tell me what I should do if we lynch Xerxes amd he flips town. Lead me down that path.

I don't see that happening, but okay. So Xerxes is town, you are town, I am town, RR is town. Scum in Egor/WW/Hydrad. Main thing is I have to try and stay alive. You would need to try and stop the nightkill. WW/Hydrad is team seems impossible. So Egor would be scum in that scenarion. Which makes WW way more likely scum. Choose one of them; the situation is similar as above. If I end up being killed, Do the same thing the following night.

[iguanaiguana]

Well here's my biggest problem right now: with you thinking I am scum, aren't you going for my lynch tomorrow regardless of how Xerxes flips?

So if town wins even if I lynch town!you and town wins if I lynch scum!you, where exactly is my incentive to keep you alive when you want me dead?

[iguanaiguana]

The other thing about WW being scum also is that I fullclaimed to him in our neighborhood N2 but he didn't kill me, even knowing that a babysitting jailkeep is a huge endgame asset for town...

[Roadrunner7671]

Why do Hydrad's and RR's claims look solid?

I know both of them better than most of the people in this game, and don't think that either of them would have made those roles up. Particularly RR, but also Hydrad.

I mean, Psychologizing whatever miller is a really weird role.

No offense man, but I am not going to claim to know you until after Saturday 

I just mean we have had a few short conversations out of this game for me to know you a bit better than say Xerxes.

Thatś true. Unlike Xerxes, I actually know your gender.

[faust]

Well here's my biggest problem right now: with you thinking I am scum, aren't you going for my lynch tomorrow regardless of how Xerxes flips?

So if town wins even if I lynch town!you and town wins if I lynch scum!you, where exactly is my incentive to keep you alive when you want me dead?

The fact that I think you're scum stems to a large degree from the fact that you/Xerxes seems like such as reasonable pairing. If Xerxes flips town, I would certainly question my reads. If he flips scum, yeah I might go after you. I might be convinced towards WW. Anyway you have one more night to prove your worth.

A town win is all but guaranteed. We have no idea what powers scum has. Even though things might look good for town!you on paper, things could happen and you could easily lose.

[faust]

The other thing about WW being scum also is that I fullclaimed to him in our neighborhood N2 but he didn't kill me, even knowing that a babysitting jailkeep is a huge endgame asset for town...

He was scared that you would jailkeep him?

[faust]

Also I think Ampharos bodyguarded, so it is not out of the question that you were targetted by scum.

[Roadrunner7671]

All but guaranteed? There could be two scum out there!

[Witherweaver]

Okay, I'm alright with

Vote: Xerxes

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.10

Xerxes (2): faust, WW (L-2)
Faust (1):, iguana

Not Voting (4): Hydrad, EgorK, Xerxes, RR

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Day4 ends Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 10:00 pm forum time

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: Xerxes

[EgorK]

Ok

Based on my current understanding I announce intent to hammer

[iguanaiguana]

members of the town, please listen to me:

It is in our best interest right now to lynch Faust, not Xerxes. This is why:

1) There is an equal chance of a Faust/Egor pairing as any Xerxes pairing. In fact, while Scum!Xerxes' partner is unclear to many, scum!Faust's partner is all but certainly EgorK. This means if we lynch Faust, either we have found the last mafia also or at least made EgorK an IC. Therefore Faust is preferable.

2) If Faust is town, as beloved princess he causes a serious liability for the town because if he dies tonight, we will have two night phases instead of one. Therefore if you consider the chances equal of Xerxes and Faust being scum, it is better to lynch Faust over a claimed roleblocker who does us no harm as town.

3) Faust needs to have the rug pulled out from underneath his feet. He has been acting like he is the only one in this game who has independent thoughts. If we just let him keep calling the shots, he will never learn that he is in fact just a normal guy and no scumhunting god after all.

Please consider a Faust lynch! He himself admits that he has bussed a teammate day 1 before and gone on to win! Don't let him do it again!

[iguanaiguana]

 With this, even if all I have done is convinced everyone I am scum, at least I have made it clear that I am no sheep and will NEVER lay down and quietly die while a scumteam takes away the game.

[XerxesPraelor]

Alright - I've already fullclaimed, so nothing new to say.

More congratulations due yuma for the setup - anything that can be both this confusing and still intelligible is very difficult to make. Remaking reads: Faust > II > WW > Hydrad > RR. Not very sure though - could be any two of those first four.

PPE: I doubt this is going anywhere, but vote: faust. That 3 though is bad - you shouldn't be lynching someone just to "pull the rug out from under their feet."

[iguanaiguana]

Alright - I've already fullclaimed, so nothing new to say.

More congratulations due yuma for the setup - anything that can be both this confusing and still intelligible is very difficult to make. Remaking reads: Faust > II > WW > Hydrad > RR. Not very sure though - could be any two of those first four.

PPE: I doubt this is going anywhere, but vote: faust. That 3 though is bad - you shouldn't be lynching someone just to "pull the rug out from under their feet."

Its not a 'just' situation though

[yuma]

Vote Count 4.11

Xerxes (3): faust, WW, RR (L-1)
Faust (2):, iguana, Xerxes (L-2)

Not Voting (2): Hydrad, EgorK

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Day4 ends Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 10:00 pm forum time

[EgorK]

Well, let's roll the dice.

Vote: XP

[yuma]

Thread Locked!

[yuma]

Final Day4 Vote Count

Xerxes (4): faust, WW, RR, Egork
Faust (2):, iguana, Xerxes (L-2)

Not Voting (1): Hydrad

With 7 alive it took 4 to lynch.

Xerxes has been lynched. He was a Mafia Roleblocking Odd-Night Gunsmith.

Night4 Starts Now!

Night actions are due by 5:00 pm forum time November 20, 2015. Night4 will end at 5:00 pm forum time November 21, 2015.

Thread Locked!

[yuma]

night action deadline passed a few hours ago. Night4 will end at time listed above.

[yuma]

Day5 Start

Egork has died in the night. He was a Odd-night weak Doctor


Vote count 5.0

Not voting (5): Faust, RR, iguana iguana, WW, hydrad.

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Thread unlocked.

[Hydrad]

and we are back!

are you happy yet iguana? there are still kills!

[Hydrad]

anyways.

I think RR is town here.

I feel like faust has to be town but the fact that hes still alive is in a way a scum tell. But if I remember correctly hider has something to do with that?

iguana I have a town read but he was voting for faust instead of XP so thats kinda scummy.

WW... through POE is kinda my top scum read I guess.

[Roadrunner7671]

Hi everyone! I'm in UCON!

[iguanaiguana]

I am town, but go ahead and lynch me. You won't be able to see the truth until I am dead, and then town can get on with the game and win.

[Roadrunner7671]

I am on Iguana's side here.

[Hydrad]

I am town, but go ahead and lynch me. You won't be able to see the truth until I am dead, and then town can get on with the game and win.

What does this mean?

[Roadrunner7671]

I am town, but go ahead and lynch me. You won't be able to see the truth until I am dead, and then town can get on with the game and win.

What does this mean?

He wants Faust's ego to blow up in his face. And he thinks we'll catch scum based on how he flips.

[faust]

iguana, I need you to claim your target.

[Hydrad]

iguana, I need you to claim your target.

Does it have to be iguana? Since I'm guessing someone got told they got targetted so that would save time.

[faust]

iguana, I need you to claim your target.

Does it have to be iguana? Since I'm guessing someone got told they got targetted so that would save time.

That would work as well I suppose.

[Hydrad]

iguana, I need you to claim your target.

Does it have to be iguana? Since I'm guessing someone got told they got targetted so that would save time.

That would work as well I suppose.

he targetted me. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't some sort of plan i would ruin by saying that.

[faust]

Most curious. It fits with my information, so that's good.

I think I have this game solved. Obviously for that to work, you need to assume that I am town.

If I am town, so is RR.

Tonight, I targetted WW. That was a bit of a gambit - I thought to myself "how do we lose this game?" Well, the obvious next lynch targets were iguana/WW. If iguana was town, I was pretty sure he would jailkeep WW because he believed in a Xerxes/WW team. So if WW was scum, he would be jailkept and we'd get no night kill, it would not be the end of the world if I died because iguana could just have jailkept WW again. And I was pretty sure scum would not kill WW, so I was safe from kills there.

Now obviously I live. WW is town (or, non-mafia - it's not out of the question for this game to have a Survivor I guess).

So, I am town, WW is town, RR is town.

That leaves iguana/Hydrad. iguana is plenty scummy, but to be absolutely sure, we could also lynch Hydrad and if he's town have him shoot iguana. Obviously that requires iguana's cooperation.

[Hydrad]

Most curious. It fits with my information, so that's good.

I think I have this game solved. Obviously for that to work, you need to assume that I am town.

If I am town, so is RR.

Tonight, I targetted WW. That was a bit of a gambit - I thought to myself "how do we lose this game?" Well, the obvious next lynch targets were iguana/WW. If iguana was town, I was pretty sure he would jailkeep WW because he believed in a Xerxes/WW team. So if WW was scum, he would be jailkept and we'd get no night kill, it would not be the end of the world if I died because iguana could just have jailkept WW again. And I was pretty sure scum would not kill WW, so I was safe from kills there.

Now obviously I live. WW is town (or, non-mafia - it's not out of the question for this game to have a Survivor I guess).

So, I am town, WW is town, RR is town.

That leaves iguana/Hydrad. iguana is plenty scummy, but to be absolutely sure, we could also lynch Hydrad and if he's town have him shoot iguana. Obviously that requires iguana's cooperation.

one thing is that we can also clear you being town kinda thing with us lynching iguana first. then next day if we are wrong to lynch me and i shoot you.

[iguanaiguana]

I jailkept Hydrad and there was still a kill. After yesterday's endgame I no longer believed that Witherweaver/Faust was possible.

I don't know what to say. I know what I know and all of the people Faust has vouched for cannot possibly be town. Therefore, unless Hydrad can kill while being jailkept or Town!Faust is either lying or mistaken, I'm forced to believe against all probability of reads that Faust is in fact scum.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm sorry I meant I no longer believed WW/Xerxes was possible.

At any rate it hardly matters at all. If Faust is scum, we will lose because I was the only one who refused to blindly follow after the pied piper.

If faust is town, we likely still lose because he has made a mistake of some kind.

Either way my only vindication will be my death and my flip.

So go ahead and kill me you cowards.

<b> Vote: Iguana </b>

[iguanaiguana]

Bolded wrong dangit.

Guess I'd better change that to

Vote: Faust

[Hydrad]

well I don't think this should be lylo. so I think we are still fine even if you get lynched.

[iguanaiguana]

well I don't think this should be lylo. so I think we are still fine even if you get lynched.

O gee good point better just kill me.

[Hydrad]

well I don't think this should be lylo. so I think we are still fine even if you get lynched.

O gee good point better just kill me.

I'm not saying you have to be it. I'm fine with lynching you or faust today. And if we are wrong we lynch me the next day and I kill the other. Seems like a good deal to me!

[iguanaiguana]

I think I have this game solved...
you need to assume that I am town.

He does have this game solved. He needs town to continue assuming he is town so that he can win.

[iguanaiguana]

I jailkept you Hydrad. And there was still a kill. How can you be mafia and kill in jail? Explain that to me.

You aren't scum. It is Faust or WW. Probably Faust. So vote for him.

[iguanaiguana]

iguana is plenty scummy,

DUDE!!! Screw you man!!! I don't care how scummy I look because YOU ARE THE SCUM.

DUDE BRO DUDE BRO DUDE BRO DUDE

[Hydrad]

I jailkept you Hydrad. And there was still a kill. How can you be mafia and kill in jail? Explain that to me.

You aren't scum. It is Faust or WW. Probably Faust. So vote for him.

see but the issue here is I can't be 100% sure your town.

but faust has cleared WW and RR apparently. so either hes telling the truth or if hes lying hes scum and we win anyways.

Or its you.

The one thing I think that could happen to us is there is possibly 2 scum left somehow? Otherwise we should be fine.

[iguanaiguana]

Tomorrow when I flip town, Faust goes after you Hydrad. This is how he wins. With his insane fake towncred.

[Hydrad]

Tomorrow when I flip town, Faust goes after you Hydrad. This is how he wins. With his insane fake towncred.

well even if we end up lynching you and he goes after me we still win.

My role is pretty good it seems.

[Hydrad]

also it doesn't matter to me that much I'm still fine going for faust today.

to me I don't really see a difference

[Roadrunner7671]

iguana is plenty scummy,

DUDE!!! Screw you man!!! I don't care how scummy I look because YOU ARE THE SCUM.

DUDE BRO DUDE BRO DUDE BRO DUDE

Very convincing.

[iguanaiguana]

Then let's go for Faust. Roadrunner are you in?

Also if you let me live one more night and somehow its WW not Faust then I can at least Jailkeep him.

[faust]

Eh. No risks here. Scum could still somehow kill twice for all we know.

Vote: iguana

I'm sorry you're frustrated.

[faust]

iguana jailkeeping Hydrad when he thinks WW and me are scummy makes very little sense.

[Hydrad]

hmm interesting thought came into my head. what happens if its me and scum as last 2 alive? is it a draw? because if he lynches me hes dead and if he kills me hes dead...

[faust]

hmm interesting thought came into my head. what happens if its me and scum as last 2 alive? is it a draw? because if he lynches me hes dead and if he kills me hes dead...

- In the event of a standstill, non-town aligned factions will be forced to act.
- in the event of a standstill that can't be broken the mod will determine the winner from a pre-established set of criteria that will not be made public. (Think how boxing wins are rewarded when no KO occurs). This will only be used as an absolute last resort under extreme situations.

I think the first point here means town wins? Mafia would be forced to kill you.

[faust]

Ah, no, I'm stupid... then mafia dies as well... I depends on how things are determined. Technically, for a short amount of time, the mafia player is the only one left alive. ... It might be a draw. Though yuma I think has said previously that he doesn't like draw endings, so maybe not.

[faust]

Anyway it shouldn't come to that. We can win this.

[faust]

I jailkept you Hydrad. And there was still a kill. How can you be mafia and kill in jail? Explain that to me.

Roles Possible in the Game

Ascetic, Commuter, Hider, Rolestopper, Strongman, Strong-willed

Now a lot of that does not make sense given that Hydrad knew you targetted him... but it is technically possible.

[iguanaiguana]

iguana jailkeeping Hydrad when he thinks WW and me are scummy makes very little sense.

"Iguana being able to read the game as well as I am and come to the same conclusion that I did is SSSSSCCCCCCUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYY D:< D:< D:< D:<"

[iguanaiguana]

Unvote

Faust

I've been thinking about this a lot. I still wish you were scum, because that would make this game easy to win, but I don't think you are anymore. Your behavior is just not consistent with scum at all.

So let's decide for the sake of argument that you and I are both town and both telling the truth about our role interactions.

You have vouched for Witherweaver and Roadrunner. I have vouched for Hydrad. But not everyone is town, so one of us is wrong in this "Interesting possibility(TM)."

So we need to figure out who is wrong, or they lynch me first, lynch you next, (OR VICE VERSA WHATEVER) and scum gets to sit back and watch as the town rips itself to shreds.

You know a hell of a lot about roles than I do. I FULLY admit that I have not read all of these roles. There are a lot.

So please can we come up with situations where either Witherweaver or Hydrad could be tricking us into thinking they are town when they are not?

[Witherweaver]

Haven't caught up yet.  Last night I made a neighborhood with EgorK. We didn't talk much. (I was gone most of yesterday.)  He said he supposes that it's Hydard (his tone suggested this was "by default" as in there is no other option).  He also said he's uneasy about Faust, because of the double result from PPS.

[Witherweaver]

Well okay.. everyone alive is vouched by someone else?  Except Iguana, but he's one of the ones doing the vouching.

[iguanaiguana]

Well okay.. everyone alive is vouched by someone else?  Except Iguana, but he's one of the ones doing the vouching.

Faust is not vouched for by anyone because of hider.

[Witherweaver]

Well okay.. everyone alive is vouched by someone else?  Except Iguana, but he's one of the ones doing the vouching.

Faust is not vouched for by anyone because of hider.

Oh, this is true.

[Witherweaver]

So why did you choose Hydrad?

[iguanaiguana]

People probably think I am just scum trying to dodge a lynch right now. I realize that it looks like that. I AM town, so I will do my best to explain my thought process as well as I can during this game.

So first of all, all of my recent decisions have been colored by my increasing annoyance with Faust's wrong assumption that I am scum, along with the undue control he has had over this game so far, which I will now go out on the record and say are not necessarily scum traits or town traits. I have definitely made poor plays in this game, based on the assumptions that my mislynch was at various times unavoidable or necessary. At times, I have made posts with the goal in mind of making Faust look silly when I flip town. Toward that end, probably I have only made myself look silly, and scummy, and validated everyone's scumread on me. And I am sorry for that.

Now, let's go

Faust first gave a scumread on me based on my interactions with Xerxes, who we now know is scum. I don't know exactly what the basis for that scumread was, but I imagine that it has to do with the fact that we voted for each other or claimed to want to vote for each other at non-critical times, but then never followed up those votes by actually being on the wagon at lynch.

I don't think this is a very good argument. I cannot speak for Xerxes, but as for myself, I have obviously been floundering a lot this game and changing my vote a lot. I am prone to changing my mind, especially when new evidence comes up, and am perhaps too susceptible to listening to other people's arguments or ideas. The result of that was a series of bad timing with my votes on Xerxes, such that none of them ended up making a difference. In the end, Xerxes' weak "town should listen to my scumreads after my death" argument, combined with Faust's suspicion of me and his confidence that he has the game "solved" pushed me over the edge.  That doesn't change the fact that I did find Xerxes to be scummy, and wanted him lynched. If I had gotten my lynch on Faust, and he had flipped town, I would have gone after Xerxes next for sure. Obviously, it didn't happen that way and I can't prove that. Let's put that aside, I guess.

Last night, when I was choosing who to target, I did in fact choose Witherweaver first. However, I changed my target to Hydrad before the end of the night. Again, we can't both be scum at this point, so the fact that I am reporting it and Hydrad is confirming it should be enough to prove that at least I targeted Hydrad with some kind of action. Once I am dead or this game is over, you will all see that the action was jailkeeping. At any rate, the line of reasoning I used was this: at the end of yesterday, Witherweaver looked more and more like town. He proved ready to vote Xerxes before it was a sure thing that the Xerxes wagon took off, and didn't want to go after Faust even though it would have been a real possibility if he flipped. He looked like he was trying to honestly figure things out, and so after some time I questioned myself. I remembered that on jailkeeping Hydrad on N2, there had in fact been no deaths, and wondered whether the deaths on N3/N4 were because scum knew I was jailkeeping Hydrad and decided to have Xerxes perform the kill instead.

I was greedy and wanted a clean end to the game. I convinced myself that Hydrad was most likely the remaining scum player and decided to jailkeep him, thinking that if there were no deaths last night I would be able to explain the phenomenon and have scum!Hydrad lynched, without town needing to go through the process of my mislynch. I had the glowing stars of MVP in my eyes, dreaming the pipe dream that I for once would be able to use my power role effectively and turn things around from being the most hated player to the most loved.

It was all of course to no avail. There was a kill last night, most likely either because Hydrad can break through a jailkeep or Witherweaver has found a way to cheat Faust's scum check. And yes, it is also possible that Faust is playing a very risky game here, and he is the remaining scum player.

I wish I could tell anyone anything with certainty, but the only role I know is my own.

[iguanaiguana]

So why did you choose Hydrad?

Your question is answered above in the IIMO (Iguana Iguana Magnum Opus)

[Witherweaver]

Maybe scum has some flavor of Redirector/Bus Driver.

[iguanaiguana]

One thing I just cannot do is piece together how the roles are supposed to be working. I just don't have enough experience. This is my first game. I'm sorry.

[iguanaiguana]

I have been thinking a lot about Faust's plan of lynching Hydrad, and if he is town, having Hydrad vengekill me.

It is a horrible, horrible plan. Why? Because I am town.

So if Hydrad is scum it is all well and good and we win. But if Hydrad is town, then he will vengekill me, also town, and we both die. Then we go into the night with three people left alive, just Witherweaver, Roadrunner, and Faust. Mafia shoots one, and the game is over. Mafia wins.

So if we lynch Hydrad and he is town, mafia just wins. Regardless of whether the mafia player is Witherweaver or Faust.

So I am going out on the record and saying this, for the sake of town:

I prefer my own lynch to Hydrad's lynch. If you for some reason think that the only possible scum players in the game are me or him, vote for me.

[Roadrunner7671]

Still catching up.

[iguanaiguana]

Also, I have prepared a meme for my death, to be looked upon mournfully in the event that you do decide to lynch me. It is a summation of how I would feel being mislynched. Therefore, my last request is that if someone decides to hammer me, they simply post "Intent to hammer" before doing it, so that I have a chance to get online and post my meme before Yuma locks up the thread.

[Roadrunner7671]

If you kill Iguanaiguana, I will be very sad.

He's pretty cool, and he's town. We've been over this many, many times. I'm sorta just...here, doing nothing. If we lynch WW, that's very safe. Based on who dies we should be able to find scum.

[iguanaiguana]

I am okay with a WW lynch or Faust lynch. Lynching me isn't the worst. Hydrad lynch is absolutely unacceptable. Lynching RR is just, like, goofy.

So yeah: my priorities are (WW; Faust), Me.

RR, I will vote for whoever you vote for.

[Roadrunner7671]

Don't trust my reads iguanaiguana, even though I know you are town, I technically still have to entertain the thought that you are scum.

So I'm not voting yet.

[iguanaiguana]

Its a bonus for me that if you lynch me I get to post my animated gif. I am very very okay with it.

[Roadrunner7671]

Its a bonus for me that if you lynch me I get to post my animated gif. I am very very okay with it.

This is depressing.

[iguanaiguana]

Its a bonus for me that if you lynch me I get to post my animated gif. I am very very okay with it.

This is depressing.

If we don't lynch scum tonight, the chances of both of us living through the night are very low. These are dark times indeed.

[Roadrunner7671]

What do we gain from lynching you Iguana?

[iguanaiguana]

What do we gain from lynching you Iguana?

At least a possibility for town to still win! If we lynch Hydrad, and he vengekills me, then we just auto-lose.

If we lynch me, there are three town alive and one scum left. Then it depends on who scum kill at night.

If they kill Hydrad at night, they just lose. They won't be doing that. So Hydrad survives the night.

If they kill Roadrunner (likely), then Hydrad, Witherweaver and Faust have a showdown. No one wants to place their vote their because no one is sure who is scum and who is not.

If they kill WW or Faust, then you (RR) have to make a choice between the remaining players of Hydrad or WW/Faust. I suggest you choose whichever is alive: WW or Faust. But it will be up to you.

So as long as Hydrad is not scum, lynching me is not the worst thing ever.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm still not voting until we can talk about this more.

[iguanaiguana]

To be clear, I'm not telling you to lynch me. I'm just saying that I make a better lynch than Hydrad (the worst possible lynch), or you (the next worst lynch).

[Roadrunner7671]

To be clear, I'm not telling you to lynch me. I'm just saying that I make a better lynch than Hydrad (the worst possible lynch), or you (the next worst lynch).

Yes, I understand that. But you're still not a great lynch IMO.

[iguanaiguana]

To be clear, I'm not telling you to lynch me. I'm just saying that I make a better lynch than Hydrad (the worst possible lynch), or you (the next worst lynch).

Yes, I understand that. But you're still not a great lynch IMO.

Glad to hear it. If one other person agrees, we're all set.

But yeah I'd like to hear more from people, especially WW/Faust.

[faust]

Okay, let's see... I mean, there are ways to stop my role from working; mainly if the person I targetted is Ascetic or some such. Then my targetting fails... so technically, WW could be Ascetic - but if he was, then PPS could not have targetted him. Of course PPS could have made that targetting up. There's also a potential of Bus Driving. So... there can surely be manipulative roles at work here that make our results invalid. None of our results is 100%.

The problem is: WW is a confirmed Neighborizer. That leaves less space for other funky roles. Basically he only can affect the person he targets. So no Bus Driving or stuff like that. Ascatic is still possible, again it does not fit with PPS's claim.

The roles of Hydrad and RR are the only ones that are entirely unconfirmed.

[faust]

I am not sure iguana is scum. But I can never be sure he is town either, and Occam's Razor tells me he is scum. And you know what - he's right. Lynching him isn't the worst thing ever.

We can lynch iguana, in the night RR bodyguards me, RR probably dies, there's three left, including Hydrad. We can lynch Hydrad and he gets to kill one of the remaining players. The only way scum can win if they are the last man standing.

[iguanaiguana]

I am not sure iguana is scum. But I can never be sure he is town either, and Occam's Razor tells me he is scum. And you know what - he's right. Lynching him isn't the worst thing ever.

We can lynch iguana, in the night RR bodyguards me, RR probably dies, there's three left, including Hydrad. We can lynch Hydrad and he gets to kill one of the remaining players. The only way scum can win if they are the last man standing.

See, I am 100% on board with that plan, except that I would replace all instances of "Iguana" with "Faust" or "Witherweaver."

Either town!Faust is thinking, "By lynching Iguana, I will know who the remaining scum player is and town can win" or scum!Faust is thinking "This way, I will be most likely to be the last scum standing." I just don't know which.

And as much as you read towny to me, the information that you give seems impossible given the knowledge that I also have of my own alignment and Hydrad's likely alignment.

Unfortunately, if you ARE town, you see it the exact same way as I do. Except where I am unable to be sure about you, you are unable to be sure about me. I completely understand that. The sad thing would be if we are BOTH town, because that is the exact situation at this point where scum is most likely to win. Because probably if I get lynched, and you survive the night, Hydrad will be shooting for you.

I think I have very little else to say at this point. I even feel I am repeating myself now. I will continue to wait for RR and Hydrad's vote before I place mine. What witherweaver thinks of all of this will also be helpful.

[Witherweaver]

Bus Driving would explain quite a bit of the weird results, I think:

Order of Operations:

Roles were placed into the following groups. Players can ask the mod specifically about their own role but not about where other roles would fit into the ordering.

Replicate
Leave
Bus
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Inspect

Bus resolves before most other things.

[Witherweaver]

I am not sure iguana is scum. But I can never be sure he is town either, and Occam's Razor tells me he is scum. And you know what - he's right. Lynching him isn't the worst thing ever.

We can lynch iguana, in the night RR bodyguards me, RR probably dies, there's three left, including Hydrad. We can lynch Hydrad and he gets to kill one of the remaining players. The only way scum can win if they are the last man standing.

See, I am 100% on board with that plan, except that I would replace all instances of "Iguana" with "Faust" or "Witherweaver."

Either town!Faust is thinking, "By lynching Iguana, I will know who the remaining scum player is and town can win" or scum!Faust is thinking "This way, I will be most likely to be the last scum standing." I just don't know which.

And as much as you read towny to me, the information that you give seems impossible given the knowledge that I also have of my own alignment and Hydrad's likely alignment.

Unfortunately, if you ARE town, you see it the exact same way as I do. Except where I am unable to be sure about you, you are unable to be sure about me. I completely understand that. The sad thing would be if we are BOTH town, because that is the exact situation at this point where scum is most likely to win. Because probably if I get lynched, and you survive the night, Hydrad will be shooting for you.

I think I have very little else to say at this point. I even feel I am repeating myself now. I will continue to wait for RR and Hydrad's vote before I place mine. What witherweaver thinks of all of this will also be helpful.

I don't understand how you could think me. Egor cleared me and you know he was town.  Now Faust has also cleared me, and there's almost no way his role could fail.  How could I be scum and Faust be town?  Or do you think we're partners?

[Witherweaver]

RR, who did you target the last two nights?

[Roadrunner7671]

RR, who did you target the last two nights?

I didn't submit my night action in time last night.

[faust]

RR, who did you target the last two nights?

I didn't submit my night action in time last night.

Ummm... your night action is compulsive...

[faust]

Coudl RR be scum after all?

[Roadrunner7671]

RR, who did you target the last two nights?

I didn't submit my night action in time last night.

Ummm... your night action is compulsive...

What does that mean?

[faust]

RR, who did you target the last two nights?

I didn't submit my night action in time last night.

Ummm... your night action is compulsive...

What does that mean?

Surely it says that in your role PM.

[Roadrunner7671]

I forgot to submit my night action. Yuma randomlyassigned me to someone. I don't get to know who it was.

[Witherweaver]

Coudl RR be scum after all?

I've always thought he was.

[iguanaiguana]

Isn't he loud? Someone should know if they got a visit from Roadrunner.

[Witherweaver]

Hm... I thought  if you were Compulsive and didn't submit an action you were modkilled? 

[Witherweaver]

Isn't he loud? Someone should know if they got a visit from Roadrunner.

This is true.

[faust]

I forgot to submit my night action. Yuma randomlyassigned me to someone. I don't get to know who it was.

That person would know though, right? Can anyone confirm that he was targetted by RR? Otherwise I think we have a liar.

Well, not certainly. Unfortunately, RR could have targetted me, in which case noone would be targetted. That's a 1/5 chance.

PPE: 4

[faust]

So WW not targetted, iguana not targetted, Egor not targetted...

Hydrad?

[faust]

This game certainly achieves to make my brain hurt.

[Roadrunner7671]

Hm... I thought  if you were Compulsive and didn't submit an action you were modkilled?

Yuma made a time mistake. He PMed me saying I had a few hours left but really I didn't.

[iguanaiguana]

I don't understand how you could think me. Egor cleared me and you know he was town.  Now Faust has also cleared me, and there's almost no way his role could fail.  How could I be scum and Faust be town?  Or do you think we're partners?

Faust has cleared everyone that I have no strong read on, and has declared likely scum everyone that I have good reason to think is town. I can't trust Faust's judgment at all here.

Coudl RR be scum after all?

I've always thought he was.

First you come to me saying "How can you think I am scum when Faust cleared me?" Then you go on to attack the other person who Faust cleared as town in the exact same way? That is just absurdly ridiculous.

[faust]

Hm... I thought  if you were Compulsive and didn't submit an action you were modkilled?

Yuma made a time mistake. He PMed me saying I had a few hours left but really I didn't.

Ugh. That sounds all kinds of wrong. I seriously doubt yuma would punish anyone for a mistake he made. I mean, not even telling you who you targetted, what?

No, vote: RR

[Roadrunner7671]

He didn't punish me. He kept me alive!

[iguanaiguana]

Hm... I thought  if you were Compulsive and didn't submit an action you were modkilled?

Where does it say this? I searched for "modkill" in the thread and saw no mention of this.

If it is in writing somewhere that a modkill is the result of not submitting a compulsive action, I would want to vote RR. OTOH if it says that a random assignment is the result, I would be inclined to believe him.

This latest development seems to me to be Much Ado About Nothing. 

[faust]

Hm... I thought  if you were Compulsive and didn't submit an action you were modkilled?

Where does it say this? I searched for "modkill" in the thread and saw no mention of this.

If it is in writing somewhere that a modkill is the result of not submitting a compulsive action, I would want to vote RR. OTOH if it says that a random assignment is the result, I would be inclined to believe him.

This latest development seems to me to be Much Ado About Nothing.

It doesn't matter as RR's reaction seems to imply that he would usually be modkilled.

[Roadrunner7671]

Faust, try to help the town instead of wasting time like this.

[faust]

Faust, try to help the town instead of wasting time like this.

You help town by telling us whether or not you die if you fail to hand in an order in time.

[Roadrunner7671]

Apparently, I don't. Case closed.

Sadly, I have to confess to something that will sound super scummy.

I accidentally deleted my role PM on Wednesday.

[faust]

Apparently, I don't. Case closed.

Sadly, I have to confess to something that will sound super scummy.

I accidentally deleted my role PM on Wednesday.

Ask yuma to re-send it.

[Roadrunner7671]

Okay.

[Witherweaver]

I don't understand how you could think me. Egor cleared me and you know he was town.  Now Faust has also cleared me, and there's almost no way his role could fail.  How could I be scum and Faust be town?  Or do you think we're partners?

Faust has cleared everyone that I have no strong read on, and has declared likely scum everyone that I have good reason to think is town. I can't trust Faust's judgment at all here.

Coudl RR be scum after all?

I've always thought he was.

First you come to me saying "How can you think I am scum when Faust cleared me?" Then you go on to attack the other person who Faust cleared as town in the exact same way? That is just absurdly ridiculous.

I keep on forgetting that he did that. 

[Witherweaver]

Hm... I thought  if you were Compulsive and didn't submit an action you were modkilled?

Where does it say this? I searched for "modkill" in the thread and saw no mention of this.

If it is in writing somewhere that a modkill is the result of not submitting a compulsive action, I would want to vote RR. OTOH if it says that a random assignment is the result, I would be inclined to believe him.

This latest development seems to me to be Much Ado About Nothing.

I thought that that was the standard way that Compulsive worked.  That's why I thought one of e/Silver could have died from it.  Didn't we talk about this in the neighborhood?

[Hydrad]

and I thought this game was going to be solved!

annoying!

[iguanaiguana]

and I thought this game was going to be solved!

annoying!

Oh yeah, its totally solved Hydrad. Don't worry.

[yuma]

Vote Count 5.1

Roadrunner(1): faust

Not Voting (4): Hydrad, Roadrunner, iguanaiguana, witherweaver

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 will end Monday, November 30, 2015. Due to American Thanksgiving the deadline has been slightly extended. Please also be aware that I will be VLA from Friday morning through Sunday evening. Any game state the game is currently in starting Friday (Day, Twilight, Night Action Submission, Night) will remain in that same state until I return on Sunday. Please plan accordingly.

[faust]

Okay, so: I think it is quite a stretch to just swallow everything RR has been saying. It may very well be that this is scum!RR flailing after he lost his partner who was coaching him a bit.

Main thing is I find it hard to believe that yuma would handle the situation the way that RR claims he handled it, no matter whether RR actually risks being modkilled or not.

Even if you believe that, you would also have to believe that yuma's randomization happened to result in me being targetted, which is possible but improbable.

That is not even taking into account the whole "I deleted my role PM" thing.

Now how come I got a "result" on RR? Well, there are some options. It could have to do with ashersky's role. Like, ash targetted Ampharos N1, thus targetting me, which would result in me being blocked N2. Or it might have to do with scum!RR's role - Ascetic or whatnot. We have no evidence of an action on RR being successful so far, right?

[faust]

Faust, try to help the town instead of wasting time like this.

This is a scummy post as well. "Oh no, things were going so well, why do you see through my fakeclaim now? Stop looking!"

[iguanaiguana]

He visited me one night and so he is loud. Thats All I can say. RR lynch is just as good as Iguana lynch now.

[Witherweaver]

I'd prefer RR to Iguana. 

[iguanaiguana]

I did the long RR reread. I am also now more forcefully reminded of Egor targeting WW.

New lynch priorities:

Roadrunner, Faust, WW, me, Hydrad.

[iguanaiguana]

In fact, vote: Roadrunner

[yuma]

Vote Count 5.2

Roadrunner (2): faust, iguanaiguana (L-1)

Not Voting (3): Hydrad, Roadrunner, witherweaver

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 will end Monday, November 30, 2015.

[iguanaiguana]

We all need to remember that for most nights mafia had a roleblocker who was probably lying about who he targeted. So if Xerxes roleblocked Faust N2 for instance he could have inadvertently saved him from hiding behind Scum!runner.

I think?

PPE Yuma reminds me that RR is at L-1 already

[Witherweaver]

Faust can't be Roleblocked because of Hiding.

[Witherweaver]

Any more you want to discuss today?

[iguanaiguana]

Faust can't be Roleblocked because of Hiding.

Yeah, this. So if RR is scum, how did Faust hide behind him?

[iguanaiguana]

Would ascetic or redirector work?

[iguanaiguana]

Okay, I looked. The answer is yes for at least one. Nothing more to discuss.

[Witherweaver]

Faust provided two possibilities: RR is Ascetic (non-killing night actions don't affect him), or Faust was Jailklept via Ash delay Jaikleeping Ampharos Night 1.

There are others.. RR could have been Rolestopped, or someone could have Redirected all actions targetting RR to someone else (Bus Driver or Deflector).

PPE: Yes, though not Redirector, because Redirector usually means you target A to move all his targets to B.  Faust can't be A.  But a version that works on Faust's target and not Faust (I think Deflector does that, or Bus Driving) would work.

[Witherweaver]

Okay

Vote: Roadrunner

[yuma]

Thread Locked!

[yuma]

Final Day5 Vote Count

Roadrunner (3): faust, iguanaiguana, witherweaver

Not Voting (2): hydrad, Roadrunner

With 5 alive it took 3 to lynch

Roadrunner has been lynched. He was a Compulsively Loud Bodyguard.

Night5 Starts Now!

Night Actions are due within 24 hours at 10 a.m. forum time on November 24, 2015. Night5 will last 24 hours after that point.

Thread Locked!

[yuma]

If all players request that the Night be shortened and have applicable night actions submitted the Night Action deadline may be shortened. Please let me know if you are in favor or against this. Any one player may stop this from occurring. Thanks!

[yuma]

All players have responded. Night5 Action Deadline has passed. Night5 will last for 24 hours and will end on November 24, 2015 at noon forum time.

[yuma]

Night5 is ending a bit early so I can actually open this thread and it doesn't have to wait until tomorrow. Unlock coming shortly

[yuma]

Day6 Start!

iguanaiguana died during the night. He was a Loud Babysitting Jailkeeper.

Vote Count 6.0

Not Voting (3): faust, witherweaver, hydrad

With three alive it takes two to lynch


Thread Unlocked!

[faust]

Vote: Hydrad

Well played, WW! Let's take the win now.

[faust]

In case it isn't clear, I am the Traitor.

Of course Hydrad has a reason to claim the same, so consider this:

A) If I am town and we lynch Hydrad, you win nonetheless. The same isn't true vice versa.
B) I know your role. You are a Neighborizing Ninja Posioner. I have known your role since D3.

[Witherweaver]

Hm.

[faust]

I actually wanted so bad to be in a neighborhood with you, but I was always afraid you would shoot me if I didn't hide.

[faust]

Ah... I see the problem here.

[faust]

Things are not as easy as I thought they would be I guess.

[Witherweaver]

This doesn't really make sense. 

If you're a Traitor and I'm Mafia and Hydrad is Town, then Hydrad should be end-gamed.  He has vengeful, but that wouldn't change it.  And if Hydrad isn't lynched, then whomever survives could shoot him tonight.

[faust]

This doesn't really make sense. 

If you're a Traitor and I'm Mafia and Hydrad is Town, then Hydrad should be end-gamed.  He has vengeful, but that wouldn't change it.  And if Hydrad isn't lynched, then whomever survives could shoot him tonight.

Well, Hydrad could convince you that he's the Traitor, in which case the game might end in a tie (everyone dead).

[faust]

And by Hydrad's claim, he kills anyone who kills him, though I think that part is made up.

[Witherweaver]

Only if his vengeful role counts on lynch or NK.

PPE: I thought it was just lynch.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Hydrad

[faust]

Yay

[faust]

This was a fun game.

[faust]

But I have to leave now... I will check in in 1-2 hours, but will not have time for post-game discussion until tomorrow.

[Witherweaver]

Away too a bit.  Curious.

[yuma]

Final Day6 Vote Count

Hydrad (2): faust, witherweaver

Not Voting (1): hydrad

With three alive it took two to lynch


The Game is Over

Mafia (witherweaver, gkrieg and Xerxes) and the Traitor (faust) win!

One of faust or WW would have been vengekilled by hydrad on the lynch, but the remaining player would still be alive, securing the win for Mafia.

Thread unlocked for general discussion. PMs/QT links/other stuff coming soon

[Roadrunner7671]

What's a traitor?

[Witherweaver]

Huh.  Yuma can you share my PM where I called this from like Day 4?

[Witherweaver]

Faust, we could have win so much sooner if you'd have stopped lynching all the Mafia!

[yuma]

Welcome Hydrad, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Vengefully Psychological Miller.

- When you die you will may vengefully kill someone. If you die via lynch you may chose a player on your lynch wagon. If you die at night you may target anyone alive at the start of night.

- Each night you may target another player to learn if they have the potential to kill another player (by any method) at any time during this game. However, if they have already killed someone (by any method) they will lie to you and your result will be invalid. However, you will not be able to tell the difference. For example: because you are vengeful if you investigated yourself you would return a guilty result.

- In addition you are a miller and any investigation on you will cause you to return a guilty result.

Welcome Witherweaver, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Mafia Neighborizing Ninja Poisoner.

- Each night, starting Night1, you may target a player to create (this will be made by the mod) a one night quicktopic with them where you both will be able to post. Alignments of both players will not be disclosed by the mod. The other player may choose to not accept the link to the quicktopic.

- In addition you are partners with chairs and gkrieg13. You may communicate with them during the night at this quicktopic, http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/wB2ZjcurUfbR.

- You share a factional kill with these players. Each night your faction will select one of you to perform a nightkill on another player in the town.

- If you are the Mafia selected to perform a night kill you will do so by poison. When you target a player to poison them at night the player will not die until the end of the following night. You can only be stopped from poisoning during the night you are targeting. But your target may be healed, if any healing roles exist, during either night. Your target will not be aware that they have poison in their body. If you die in between the targeting and the death, the targeted player will still die. The poisoning aspect of your role will be undetectable when used.

Welcome silverspawn, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Tracking Compulsive Lover.

- Each night you may choose a player to target. You will learn who that player targeted during the night, if any.

- In addition on Night1 you must choose a player to make your lover. If they die at any point during the game, you will also die. Your target will not be informed of this and if you die they will not necessarily die because you love them.

- Once, during any night you may choose a new, different player to become your lover. If your previous lover dies you will no longer be affected, but if you new lover dies at any point during the game, you will also die. However, if you choose do this you forfeit your tracking role for the rest of the game.

Welcome faust, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Mafia Hiding Traitorous Rolecop

- You are part of the Mafia team. You are aligned with them (and can only win with them), but you do not who the other Mafia team members are. The other team members may or may not be aware of you.

- Each night you may target another player and hide behind them. Any night action targeting you will not take affect. Any night action that affects the player you are hiding behind will also affect you. If you target a person who is in the process of actively killing you will be killed as well, except in the case of Mafia in the process of killing. In this case you will be informed that you hid behind a Mafia member. They will not be informed.

- You will inherit the factional night kill if you are the last Mafia member alive. You will be informed if this occurs.

Welcome gkrieg13, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Mafia Voyeuristic Self Watcher

- Each night you may target a player (as well as automatically targeting yourself). You will learn what actions were performed on that player (as well as who targeted you) and who targeted them (as well as what you were targeted with). If multiple players target another player you will not be informed which player performed which action in regard to the player you targeted and yourself. Any list received will be automatically randomized by the mod.

- In addition you are partners with witherweaver and chairs. You may communicate with them during the night at this quicktopic, http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/wB2ZjcurUfbR.

- You share a factional kill with these players. Each night your faction will select one of you to perform a nightkill on another player in the town.

Welcome Ampharos, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Bodyguarding Even-Night Doctor.

- Each night you may target a player to bodyguard them. If that player dies during the night you will die instead.
 
- On nights with even numbers you will also doctor the player you targeted to bodyguard. This will protect them from one normal kill of any variety.

Welcome 2.71828......, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Compulsive Investigative Lover

- Each night you must choose to target another player to become your lover and investigate them. They will not be informed of this targeting.

If they are:
- guilty and do not die the next day or the next night:.... you will know of their evil betrayal and be so heartbroken that you will swear to never love again (and lose your investigative and loving power), but will not die
- guilty and die in the next day or night:.... you will die of heartbreak
- not guilty and die in the next day or night:.... you will die of heartbreak
- not guilty and do not die in the next day or night:.... you will move onto another love.

- You cannot choose the same lover twice during the game.

Welcome Xerxes, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Mafia Roleblocking Odd-Night Gunsmith

- Each night you may target a player to roleblock. This will prevent the player from performing their role.

- On odd numbered nights you will also learn if that player has a gun or not during that night. Players who have guns are: Mafia members, Cops, Vigilantes and other similar roles and variants. You will receive either a result of: "Gun Detected" or "No Gun Detected."

- In addition you are partners with witherweaver and gkrieg13. You may communicate with them during the night at this quicktopic, http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/wB2ZjcurUfbR.

- You share a factional kill with these players. Each night your faction will select one of you to perform a nightkill on another player in the town.

Welcome pingpongsam, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Copping, Even-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer/

- On any night you may choose to investigate a player to learn if they are guilty or not guilty.

- On every even numbered night you have a bulletproof that will stop one normal kill from affecting you.

- In addition you have a serial killer factional kill that you may use once during the night to kill someone during that night.

Welcome RR, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Compulsively Loud Bodyguard.

- Each night you must choose a target to Bodyguard. That person will be informed that you targeted them, but not what you were doing. If that person is killed during the night you will be killed instead.

Welcome EgorK, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Weak Odd-Night Doctor

- Each odd numbered night you may target another player to Doctor them. This will protect them from one normal kill of any kind. However, if you target an anti-town player you will die in the process.

Welcome iguanaiguana, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Loud Babysitting JK.

- Each night you may target another player. This player will be informed that you are targeting them, but will not be informed with what role. This player will be blocked from performing actions during the night or from being killed during the night, However, if you die during the night the player that you targeted will also die.

Welcome Jimmmmm, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owning Innocent Child.

- At any time you may request via PM to have the mod confirm you as an Innocent Child in the thread, this will occur at the earliest convenience for the mod.

- In addition the first person who targets you for any reason during the game will be killed by your paranoid gun. You will not be told when this shot it used up.

Welcome ashersky, to Simply Simpler Simple Mafia. You are a Delayed Ninja JK

- Each night, starting Night1, you may select a player to put into jail the following night. This player will be blocked from performing actions during the night or from being killed during the night. This action will be undetectable on either night. If you die in between submitting this action and its resolution the player your target will still end up in jail.

[iguanaiguana]

Why didn't my babysitting kill Faust?

[Witherweaver]

FYI, all the Mafia kills were Poison (meaning they die the following night).

[Roadrunner7671]

I had the worst role!

[Witherweaver]

Faust hiding can't be targeted by your Babysit JK.

I'm not sure if the delayed Poison death would cause your Babysit to fail.  Yuma?

[yuma]

Night actions:

Night1:

1. Faust hides behind Jimmmmm. Any actions affecting faust have no effect. This causes all night actions that affect Jimmmm to affect faust as well.
(2-4 occur simultaneously)
2. Xerxes roleblocks Jimmmmm. This affects faust as well as Jimmmmm.
3. iguana JKs 2.7 loudly, 2.7 receives a PM stating he was targeted
4. ashersky jailkeeps silverspawn tomorrow
(5-7 occur simultaneously)
5. EgorK doctors faust - has no effect due to faust hiding
6. Ampharos bodyguards faust - has no effect due to faust hiding
7. Roadrunner bodyguards faust loudly - has no effect due to faust hiding, no PM sent
8. witherweaver neighborizes pps - both given quicktopic at midnight
(9-11 occur simultaneously)
9. PPS kills silverspawn
10. witherweaver poisons SS to take effect tomorrow
11. Jimmmmm's 1-shot PGO is activated on faust - but is blocked by Xerxes roleblock
(12-17 occur simultaneously)
12. Xerxes gunchecks Jimmmmm - has a gun
13. Hydrad psychologists silverspawn - doesn't have ability to kill
14. PPS cops Jimmmm - this affects faust as well - guilty (for faust) not guilty (for Jimmmm)
15. silverspawn tracks iguanaiguana - targeted 2.7
16. 2.7 investigates silverspawn - blocked by iguanaiguana - no result
17. faust investigates Jimmmmmm - blocked by Xerxes - no result
(18-19 occur simultaneously)
18. 2.7 loves silverspawn for the night - dies out of heartbreak
19. SS loves Jimmmmm for the night.

Events for tomorrow:
1. silverspawn is in jail from ashersky - no effect, SS is dead
2. silverspawn dies from poison - no effect, SS is dead

Day1 MVP: faust - bussed unknown mafia partner hard, will seem really townie going forward.
Night1 MVP: Xerxes - saves unknown partner from being killed.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Night2
1. faust hides behind witherweaver - any night actions affecting faust will have no effect. Any night actions affecting witherweaver will affect faust as well.
(2-3) occur simultaneously)
2. Xerxes roleblocks Jimmmmm
3. iguanaiguan JKs hydrad loudly - hydrad receives a PM stating he was targeted
(4-5 occur simultaneously)
4. Ampharos bodyguards EgorK
5. RR bodyguards iguanaiguana loudly - RR receives a PM stating he was targeted
6. witherweaver neighborizes iguanaiguana - both receive QT link
(7-8 occur simultaneously)
7. PPS kills faust - no effect, faust is hidng
8. witherweaver poisons Jimmmmm - takes effect tomorrow
(9- 11 occur simultaneously)
9. PPS investigates witherweaver - also affects faust, both return guilty result
10. hydrad psychologists ampharos - no result blocked by iguanaiguana
11. faust rolecops witherweaver - learns role; receives PM stating Neighborizing Ninja Poisoner and Hiding Traitorous Rolecop

Egork, Jimmmm have no night action. No one dies during the night.

To take effect next night:
Jimmmmm dies via poisoning

Day2 MVP: faust
Night2 MVP: faust
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Night3:

1. faust hides behind Ampharos: all actions affecting faust will have no effect. Any actions targeting Ampharos will also affect faust.
(2-3 occur simultaneously)
2. xerxes roleblocks faust: no effect due to faust hiding
3. iguanaiguana loudly JKs hydrad: hydrad receives PM stating iguanaiguana had targeted him
(4-6 occur simultaneously)
4. RR bodyguards WW loudly: WW receives PM stating that RR had targeted him
5. Egork doctors WW: Egork is killed from the weak affect of his role
6. Ampharos bodyguards Egork: Ampharos dies instead of Egork. Note: faust is not affected because Ampharos was not targeted to be killed by anyone and thus doesn't also affect faust.
7. WW Neighborizes Faust: no effect due to faust hiding. WW receives PM
(8-9 occur simultaneously)
8. Jimmmm dies from poisoning from previous night
9. Egork is poisoned; Ampharos bodyguard already used up in the bodyguard from the weak death. Will take effect tomorrow.
(10-12 occur simultangeously)
10. hydrad psyhcologists ampharos - no result blocked by iguanaiguana's JK
11. xerxes gunsmiths faust - no result as faust is hiding
12. faust rolecops ampharos: receives results of Bodyguarding Even-Night Doctor and Hiding Traitor Rolecop

Egork will die the next day from poisons

Day3 MVP: faust
Night3 MVP: WW
________________________________________________________________________________________
Night4:
1. faust hides behind WW. All actions on faust fail. Any actions targeting WW will also target faust.
2. iguanaiguana loudly JKs hydrad. Hydrad receives PM stating iguana targeted him
3. roadrunner bodyguards faust (randomly selected). he is not mod-killed as this is the first offense at not submitting a compulsive night action. no effect due to faust hiding.
4. WW neighborizes EgorK
(5-6 occur simultaneously)
5. EgorK dies from poisoning of previous night
6. WW poisons iguanaiguana
(7-8 occur simultaneously)
7. faust rolecops WW. receives result of Neighborizing Ninja Poisoner, Hiding Traitorous Rolecop
8. hydrad psychologists: faust - is jailkept, no result

iguanaiguana will die the next night from poison

Day4 MVP: EgorK
Night4 MVP: faust
___________________________________________________________________________________________

Night5:
1. faust hides behind WW. All actions affecting him fail. All actions affecting WW also affect faust.
2. iguanaiguana JKs faust. This has no effect due to faust hiding. No loud PM sent.
3. WW neighborizes faust. This has no effect due to faust hiding.
(4-5 occur simultaneously)
4. WW poisons Hydrad
5. iguanaiguana dies from poison. He isn't currently babysitting anyone so no one else dies.
(6-7 occur simultaneously)
6. faust rolecops WW. Receives result of "Neighborizing Ninja Poisoner" and "Hiding Traitorous Rolecop"
7. hydrad investigates faust. No effect due to faust hiding.

hydrad will die the next time from poison

Day5 MVP: WW
Night5 MVP: Faust

[yuma]

QTs:

speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/XF8yjPUahwLP
Mafia: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/wB2ZjcurUfbR

I am not going to share the mod QT as there are some things that were used in the setup creation that I want to save and keep secret.

Others also created QTs that they are free to share as well.

[iguanaiguana]

Also, Yeezus! Four scum and an SK! No wonder we lost! I nwver even considered that both Faust and Witherweaver were scum...

[iguanaiguana]

Even though it sure did look that way!!

Argh!!!

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, Yeezus!

You're too young to be having a midlife crisis.

[yuma]

Thoughts about the game:

1. obviously this game wasn't simple. It was really quite complicated. But it was done with (varying levels of) simple roles in combination. Some of the combinations worked really well. Some didn't.
2. there were times were conflicts occurred within the night action resolution. I tried to anticipate as much as I could these conflicts and spell them out pre-game. Sometimes I didn't foresee something and I had to do the best I could with the intent that I had created for the roles.
3. I also tried to be consistent, but sometimes that didn't happen because it caused me to be inconsistent somewhere else and sometimes I just simply missed it.
4. I am sure there will be some night action resolutions that people will disagree with. There are some I still think could have gone either way and I ended up sticking with what I had decided pre-game or felt was best per the interpretation. I am happy to discuss any decisions that I made with you all.
5. I think the game ended up being balanced. Not perfectly. I think the Hider role was perhaps too strong. But the fact that it came down to one player being left alive makes me feel good about the game. Some of the roles weren't as good as the others. Some didn't get to be used, which makes me sad, but what can you do.
6. faust I think gets the MVP. He had the best role for the MVP, but that doesn't mean he didn't earn it.
7. iguanaiguana would have won the game for town had he targeted WW last night as it would have caused him, WW and faust all to die leaving hydrad as the lone survivor and town would have won. Despite this, and because iguanaiguana couldn't have known, iguanaiguana gets the MVP nod for the losing side.

Thoughts, comments or feedback is encouraged. Hope everyone had fun. I had fun modding.

[yuma]

Why didn't my babysitting kill Faust?

Faust was hiding. So your targeting of him had no effect.

[yuma]

FYI, all the Mafia kills were Poison (meaning they die the following night).

I did not anticipate mafia using the poison to the extent that they did. I thought it would be a negative utility but it was turned into a positive one (sometimes) occasionally a kill wasn't effective because said player was already dead...

[yuma]

Faust hiding can't be targeted by your Babysit JK.

I'm not sure if the delayed Poison death would cause your Babysit to fail.  Yuma?

The person being babysat dies if the player dies during the night of their babysitting. So if iguanaiguana had decided to babysit WW last night then the poison would have affected iguanaiguana, the player he was babysitting (WW) and the player hiding behind WW (faust). It would have been a blood bath and town would have won.

[Witherweaver]

Faust hiding can't be targeted by your Babysit JK.

I'm not sure if the delayed Poison death would cause your Babysit to fail.  Yuma?

The person being babysat dies if the player dies during the night of their babysitting. So if iguanaiguana had decided to babysit WW last night then the poison would have affected iguanaiguana, the player he was babysitting (WW) and the player hiding behind WW (faust). It would have been a blood bath and town would have won.

Yep, that's what I thought.  I took this risk because it was looking a little dire, so I gambled in getting two Town deaths in.

[iguanaiguana]

Faust hiding can't be targeted by your Babysit JK.

I'm not sure if the delayed Poison death would cause your Babysit to fail.  Yuma?

The person being babysat dies if the player dies during the night of their babysitting. So if iguanaiguana had decided to babysit WW last night then the poison would have affected iguanaiguana, the player he was babysitting (WW) and the player hiding behind WW (faust). It would have been a blood bath and town would have won.

Don't make me cry.

Faust's false clearing of Witherweaver as town did SO SO much damage.

We should have listened to the serial killer.

[yuma]

Don't make me cry.

Like I said, there was no way you could have known this. I think what you did was the right play given your information... You played really well I thought.

[pingpongsam]

If only we had lynched WW when I copped him. Seriously, I have never seen a cop result so unanimously dismissed. Granted I was still scum, but all of my claims other than role were pure truth (as they should be). What blew my mind the most was the continued dismissal after my flip where it should have been clear I was copping for town cred.

All in all a super game whereby faust is a clear MVP, congratulations.

[yuma]

We should have listened to the serial killer.

How often is this said?

[Witherweaver]

Haha, PPS got the most pro-town results.. caught two scum.

I got really lucky with Egor clearing me too.

[Witherweaver]

If only we had lynched WW when I copped him. Seriously, I have never seen a cop result so unanimously dismissed. Granted I was still scum, but all of my claims other than role were pure truth (as they should be). What blew my mind the most was the continued dismissal after my flip where it should have been clear I was copping for town cred.

All in all a super game whereby faust is a clear MVP, congratulations.

You're absolutely right, which is why I was always pushing for Redirection/Bus Driving/etc.

[pingpongsam]

I assume my double result on Jimmmmm was a contributing factor to my results being dismissed. I was really confounded that everyone would think I was fakeclaiming something so asinine instead of assuming something odd about Jimmmmm or something else (like hider).

[yuma]

I was curious about the claiming cop so early in the game? Surely that is a death wish once night comes around isn't it? And the SK doesn't want to die.

I mean that is why I combined those two roles to create that sort of dichotomy (getting towncred, but not wanting too much of it) but you went straight for the towncred. Did you think you could survive being killed, especially claiming on an odd night!?!

[iguanaiguana]

Yeah thanks PPS.  You were the most pro town serial killer that ever lived for a little while then got lynched.

[pingpongsam]

I was curious about the claiming cop so early in the game? Surely that is a death wish once night comes around isn't it? And the SK doesn't want to die.

I mean that is why I combined those two roles to create that sort of dichotomy (getting towncred, but not wanting too much of it) but you went straight for the towncred. Did you think you could survive being killed, especially claiming on an odd night!?!

Yeah, the hope and the dream was to get doctored on the odd night and to be bulletproof on the next even night. It was all hinging on getting scum lynched on my results. Truth is, once I flubbed the initial role stuff on D1 I figured I was toast because SK can't do silliness like that at all. Reading the setup is a scum tell even if scum doesn't read it apparently.

[iguanaiguana]

Haha, PPS got the most pro-town results.. caught two scum.

I got really lucky with Egor clearing me too.

Egor AND Faust clearing you was a HUGE part of my final decision to lynch RR. I really just did not consider two scum still being alive at the end.

[Witherweaver]

Here are the Neighborhood links if anyone cares:

Night 1: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/cWmf5vZ8tD7Qw
Night 2: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/6bPwKNU9GyVxY
Night 3: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/VFUMmi7WcNCW
Night 4: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Y8PhcFmaWQx
Night 5: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/iDCaqVTvHWM99

[Witherweaver]

Haha, PPS got the most pro-town results.. caught two scum.

I got really lucky with Egor clearing me too.

Egor AND Faust clearing you was a HUGE part of my final decision to lynch RR. I really just did not consider two scum still being alive at the end.

Yeah, I was counting on that too.

[iguanaiguana]

Haha, PPS got the most pro-town results.. caught two scum.

I got really lucky with Egor clearing me too.

Egor AND Faust clearing you was a HUGE part of my final decision to lynch RR. I really just did not consider two scum still being alive at the end.

Yeah, I was counting on that too.

And once Faust knew you were scum, the more I went after you the more Faust went after me. And then when I went after Faust people started to think I was going crazy and wouldn't believe me.

I felt so alone at the end of this game :/

[Witherweaver]

I sent this to Yuma during the massclaim day (Day 4), I think after I typed this post:

I want to get on record that I actually think Faust is lying, though I don't understand why.  Another scum team plus a SK doesn't make a lot of sense... and maybe Ampharos' death really did work out the way we thought.  (Except Jimmm was Poisoned the night before which is why Bodyguard didn't block it.)  So really no evidence for a second team.    But really the more I read Faust's claim the more it feels like a fake claim.  It's, like.. too careful, too thoroughly explaining his "thought process" for selecting his targets.

It had occurred to me as I was typing my post that Faust could be a Traitor.   Actually, that might make some sense.. he's a Traitor Hider.. if he selects us, he dies; he he selects Vig or SK, he would also die.  If that were the case even a No Lynch should win it for us.

[Witherweaver]

Haha, PPS got the most pro-town results.. caught two scum.

I got really lucky with Egor clearing me too.

Egor AND Faust clearing you was a HUGE part of my final decision to lynch RR. I really just did not consider two scum still being alive at the end.

Yeah, I was counting on that too.

And once Faust knew you were scum, the more I went after you the more Faust went after me. And then when I went after Faust people started to think I was going crazy and wouldn't believe me.

I felt so alone at the end of this game :/

I legitimately believed Faust was scum on Day 4 (as you see above).  I ended up settling on Traitor or Survivor, but Survivor was as good as Town after Xerxes was lynched. 

[iguanaiguana]

Its all okay tho ugh! It was a fun game anyway. Mafia played really well at the end and deserves the win. Congratz for sure.

I was just a flailing noob in this game, but next game I'm going to be a powerhouse 

[yuma]

I sent this to Yuma during the massclaim day (Day 4), I think after I typed this post:

I want to get on record that I actually think Faust is lying, though I don't understand why.  Another scum team plus a SK doesn't make a lot of sense... and maybe Ampharos' death really did work out the way we thought.  (Except Jimmm was Poisoned the night before which is why Bodyguard didn't block it.)  So really no evidence for a second team.    But really the more I read Faust's claim the more it feels like a fake claim.  It's, like.. too careful, too thoroughly explaining his "thought process" for selecting his targets.

It had occurred to me as I was typing my post that Faust could be a Traitor.   Actually, that might make some sense.. he's a Traitor Hider.. if he selects us, he dies; he he selects Vig or SK, he would also die.  If that were the case even a No Lynch should win it for us.

this was pretty good. Originally I had the Hider dying if he targeted anyone that was scum. But I wanted there to be a mechanism for him to find mafia. So I changed it to anyone killing except for mafia. I probably should have put in some sort of stipulation about not being able to hide behind the same player unless there was no other option given that once he found you as mafia you became a pretty safe place to hide.

[iguanaiguana]

Roadrunner, I already said something similar in the speccy, but if you keep playing you REALLY need to perform your role actions! Even if you don't like your role. If you do things that you know will look scummy, you are basically begging for scum to manipulate that to your advantage. So I hope your lynch was a lesson for you this game.

Also, you NEED to vote at critical times when you are town! I told you multiple times before your lynch that if you led the way, I would follow and join my vote onto yours. If you had done it and then Hydrad followed, we would have won.

I really like you and don't want to make you upset but we KNEW that we were both town and instead of capitalizing on that we ended up blowing it for each other. Let's never let something like that happen again, alright?

[silverspawn]

too many games where scum gets lynched day 1 and wins...

[Roadrunner7671]

Yeah, Iguanaiguana, this wasn't my best game. Even though I 'knew' you were town, you acted pretty scummy.

I should've submitted my night action, but I thought I had more time. But with five scum, we were pretty dead by Day Four.

[ashersky]

Here's my QT, for any who care: http://quicktopic.com/51/H/KZdh86ZkrkB

[Witherweaver]

Here's my QT, for any who care: http://quicktopic.com/51/H/KZdh86ZkrkB

I don't get the posting minimum amount thing. 

[ashersky]

Here's my QT, for any who care: http://quicktopic.com/51/H/KZdh86ZkrkB

I don't get the posting minimum amount thing.

What is there to get?  It was just a thing to try.  I got away with it for longer than I expected.

[Witherweaver]

Here's my QT, for any who care: http://quicktopic.com/51/H/KZdh86ZkrkB

I don't get the posting minimum amount thing.

Favorite quote:

Man, SS was pushing gkrieg all day. Can't imagine that was a bus...so...

1) he's werewolf
2) he's SK
3) he's town

Phony math says 2/3 chance he's scum.

[Witherweaver]

Here's my QT, for any who care: http://quicktopic.com/51/H/KZdh86ZkrkB

I don't get the posting minimum amount thing.

What is there to get?  It was just a thing to try.  I got away with it for longer than I expected.

Well, that's what there was to get.  I wasn't sure if you were somehow doing something related to your role.

[ashersky]

Favorite quote:

Man, SS was pushing gkrieg all day. Can't imagine that was a bus...so...

1) he's werewolf
2) he's SK
3) he's town

Phony math says 2/3 chance he's scum.

I left out Traitor, it turns out, so 3/4!

[ashersky]

Here's my QT, for any who care: http://quicktopic.com/51/H/KZdh86ZkrkB

I don't get the posting minimum amount thing.

What is there to get?  It was just a thing to try.  I got away with it for longer than I expected.

Well, that's what there was to get.  I wasn't sure if you were somehow doing something related to your role.

Nah.  Ninja Delayed JK was meh.  Sort of strong but not really?  Nothing wrong with it, just not as fun as other roles.

[iguanaiguana]

Yeah, Iguanaiguana, this wasn't my best game. Even though I 'knew' you were town, you acted pretty scummy.

I should've submitted my night action, but I thought I had more time. But with five scum, we were pretty dead by Day Four.

Its okay, dudebro. We were just a couple of noobs getting outplayed by the pros. Can't believe I fell for that lame 'he should have been modkilled' argument ><

[ashersky]

Yeah, Iguanaiguana, this wasn't my best game. Even though I 'knew' you were town, you acted pretty scummy.

I should've submitted my night action, but I thought I had more time. But with five scum, we were pretty dead by Day Four.

Its okay, dudebro. We were just a couple of noobs getting outplayed by the pros. Can't believe I fell for that lame 'he should have been modkilled' argument ><

Yeah, that was a super scummy argument by faust.

[Roadrunner7671]

Don't worry Iguanaiguana, we'll slowly but surely get better.

[iguanaiguana]

To Ash, I def. like you and am excited to play more games with you. But I couldn't figure you out this game and thats why I went for your lynch. I wish you had gone out some other way, because without you the town was just a collection of newbies and people lurking for IRL reasons. Well, after N1 thats what we were anyway.

[silverspawn]

eh... you accuse me of a lot of stuff in that QT.

Rereading, I guess it's just Silverspawn and XP that were actively confirming their low opinions of me. Faust was just agreeing.

I'm surprised by faust, I guess. The other two, well we're clear on how SS feels about me.

I reread all posts I made this game (not that many, since I died n1), and I only even said two things that concerned you (otherwise I deliberately ignored you to avoid conflict).

The one was that you pushed my lynch every game since the incident, which is an observation.
The other was that people you push day 1 are usually town, which is an observation.

If you want to look for reasons (which I didn't do in the game, I just stated stats that I remembered), then #2 to a lesser extent follows out of the no-bus policy (which I think is good play, I think people bus too much). If you are guaranteed not to vote for scum as scum, then if you vote for someone, he's more likely town, unless you have really accurate day 1 reads as town. The rest is probably mostly variance.

You could have kept the QT private, but since you chose to share it, it seems appropriate that I write a response. I don't think I'm guilty of the things you accuse me of.

[2.71828.....]

Great setup. Dying from heartbreak N1 sucks. Haha

I think my role needed a N0 target. Because then I would have received my first result at N1, like a normal cop. With another result on each following night

[Witherweaver]

WW better watch out. The way things are going he won't last another 12 hours

It's fun to be so called out for being scum in the speccy when you actually were scum and lasted to the end.

Though, it was mostly a lot of luck, and a good lie by Faust.  I thought I was pretty scummy this game and should have been lynched; I actually always think I am when I'm scum.

[ashersky]

eh... you accuse me of a lot of stuff in that QT.

Rereading, I guess it's just Silverspawn and XP that were actively confirming their low opinions of me. Faust was just agreeing.

I'm surprised by faust, I guess. The other two, well we're clear on how SS feels about me.

I reread all posts I made this game (not that many, since I died n1), and I only even said two things that concerned you (otherwise I deliberately ignored you to avoid conflict).

The one was that you pushed my lynch every game since the incident, which is an observation.
The other was that people you push day 1 are usually town, which is an observation.

If you want to look for reasons (which I didn't do in the game, I just stated stats that I remembered), then #2 to a lesser extent follows out of the no-bus policy (which I think is good play, I think people bus too much). If you are guaranteed not to vote for scum as scum, then if you vote for someone, he's more likely town, unless you have really accurate day 1 reads as town. The rest is probably mostly variance.

You could have kept the QT private, but since you chose to share it, it seems appropriate that I write a response. I don't think I'm guilty of the things you accuse me of.

Figured it wouldn't be very honest to keep it private.  I welcome your response.

I actually think we're in a much better place since a lot of those posts were written.  I did feel like there were some traces of old ill-feelings from now-old experiences that remained, but I do think we've made it past those just fine.

So, I appreciate your response, am fine with you disagreeing, but that was how I felt at the time.  I don't feel that way anymore, if that matters to you.

[yuma]

Great setup. Dying from heartbreak N1 sucks. Haha

I think my role needed a N0 target. Because then I would have received my first result at N1, like a normal cop. With another result on each following night

The delay was deliberate. As has been stated there were a lot of investigative roles out there and I felt that in a sense they needed to be weakened or nerfed slightly. And I don't really like N0 actions given that they are purely random (or worse, used for solely meta reasons). They can be useful at times, but I tend to not like them in principle.

[iguanaiguana]

Great setup. Dying from heartbreak N1 sucks. Haha

I think my role needed a N0 target. Because then I would have received my first result at N1, like a normal cop. With another result on each following night

Yuma, why did he still die of heartbreak despite my jailkeep? Wasn't he roleblocked?

You mentioned there might be disagreements with some of your choices. Was this one of them?

[yuma]

Also anyone want to chime in on what they thought would be the optimal play for Jimmmmm's role?

I was surprised that he never claimed to be IC, especially with PPS's result. I think town could have benefited from having an IC around and given the protection this game had he could have survived for a while with people protecting him. But his role was made to make people wary of protecting him for fear of being shot at. But that became mute when a bunch of people targeted him Night1. Jimmmm, faust and silverspawn were all overly targeted on night1.

Every single protective role targeted faust during Night1 and in the end none of them did anything because he was Hiding. I thought that was pretty hilarious.

[iguanaiguana]

WW better watch out. The way things are going he won't last another 12 hours

It's fun to be so called out for being scum in the speccy when you actually were scum and lasted to the end.

Though, it was mostly a lot of luck, and a good lie by Faust.  I thought I was pretty scummy this game and should have been lynched; I actually always think I am when I'm scum.

You were mad scummy! Remember how ready I was to lynch you after the massclaim? Your claim was weaksauce! But Faust made up so much mumbojumbo to clear you that I didn't know what to believe anymore.

[Witherweaver]

From XP in the speccy:

3rd party faust getting hydrad to revenge kill WW for the win would be the most awesome thing ever.

This is exactly what I was afraid of. 

[Witherweaver]

WW better watch out. The way things are going he won't last another 12 hours

It's fun to be so called out for being scum in the speccy when you actually were scum and lasted to the end.

Though, it was mostly a lot of luck, and a good lie by Faust.  I thought I was pretty scummy this game and should have been lynched; I actually always think I am when I'm scum.

You were mad scummy! Remember how ready I was to lynch you after the massclaim? Your claim was weaksauce! But Faust made up so much mumbojumbo to clear you that I didn't know what to believe anymore.

Faust's claim was weaksauce!  Mine was fine.

[yuma]

Great setup. Dying from heartbreak N1 sucks. Haha

I think my role needed a N0 target. Because then I would have received my first result at N1, like a normal cop. With another result on each following night

Yuma, why did he still die of heartbreak despite my jailkeep? Wasn't he roleblocked?

You mentioned there might be disagreements with some of your choices. Was this one of them?

Yes. This would have been one of them. He was in fact role blocked as his investigation would not have gone through. But I made the decision to have "Loving" be a role that couldn't be blocked as I didn't see it as an action but more as a "feeling or emotion" ?? I can't think of the right word...

And as for why he died, this is because he died after seeing that his lover had also died. At the daybreak, after being left out of the babysitter's house. He saw his lover and then died.

This was one that was pretty clear from how I set it up from the beginning of the game. It might not be correct according to others, but it was how I interpreted it to be resolved.

[iguanaiguana]

WW better watch out. The way things are going he won't last another 12 hours

It's fun to be so called out for being scum in the speccy when you actually were scum and lasted to the end.


Though, it was mostly a lot of luck, and a good lie by Faust.  I thought I was pretty scummy this game and should have been lynched; I actually always think I am when I'm scum.

You were mad scummy! Remember how ready I was to lynch you after the massclaim? Your claim was weaksauce! But Faust made up so much mumbojumbo to clear you that I didn't know what to believe anymore.

Faust's claim was weaksauce!  Mine was fine.

One shot bulletproof 'townie,' Rofl

[yuma]

WW better watch out. The way things are going he won't last another 12 hours

It's fun to be so called out for being scum in the speccy when you actually were scum and lasted to the end.


Though, it was mostly a lot of luck, and a good lie by Faust.  I thought I was pretty scummy this game and should have been lynched; I actually always think I am when I'm scum.

You were mad scummy! Remember how ready I was to lynch you after the massclaim? Your claim was weaksauce! But Faust made up so much mumbojumbo to clear you that I didn't know what to believe anymore.

Faust's claim was weaksauce!  Mine was fine.

One shot bulletproof 'townie,' Rofl

But didn't you do the same thing... just put townie on the other side of the role? How is what he did any different?

[Witherweaver]

"Bulletproof Townie" is a role.  I mean, the role is Bulletproof, but we call it Bulletproof Townie.

[silverspawn]

oh, okay. Glad to hear that, and I agree. No problem then.

[iguanaiguana]

WW better watch out. The way things are going he won't last another 12 hours

It's fun to be so called out for being scum in the speccy when you actually were scum and lasted to the end.


Though, it was mostly a lot of luck, and a good lie by Faust.  I thought I was pretty scummy this game and should have been lynched; I actually always think I am when I'm scum.

You were mad scummy! Remember how ready I was to lynch you after the massclaim? Your claim was weaksauce! But Faust made up so much mumbojumbo to clear you that I didn't know what to believe anymore.

Faust's claim was weaksauce!  Mine was fine.

One shot bulletproof 'townie,' Rofl


Edit: @Yuma, naw that makes perfect sense to me. Its just tragic and means my role never did a thing the whole game, lol.

[Witherweaver]

And also, for a long time I wanted to claim something something Neighborizor, but I needed two modifiers.  I was going to use Compulsive, but if I used "One-Shot BP", that sounds like a modifier on a modifier, and I don't think that fits in the setup.  So I settled on moving Neibhorizor to a modifier, which it actually is in my role.

Basically, exactly what Faust said in analyzing my choice.  Though, he knew I was scum at that point.

[iguanaiguana]

WW better watch out. The way things are going he won't last another 12 hours

It's fun to be so called out for being scum in the speccy when you actually were scum and lasted to the end.


Though, it was mostly a lot of luck, and a good lie by Faust.  I thought I was pretty scummy this game and should have been lynched; I actually always think I am when I'm scum.

You were mad scummy! Remember how ready I was to lynch you after the massclaim? Your claim was weaksauce! But Faust made up so much mumbojumbo to clear you that I didn't know what to believe anymore.

Faust's claim was weaksauce!  Mine was fine.

One shot bulletproof 'townie,' Rofl

But didn't you do the same thing... just put townie on the other side of the role? How is what he did any different?

What I did was a ridiculous mistake!

[Witherweaver]

Actually, Yuma, was my claim realistic in this setup?  If you did decide to make Bulletproof a role (not a modifier), how would you word it?

[silverspawn]

Also anyone want to chime in on what they thought would be the optimal play for Jimmmmm's role?

I think it's a really interesting and difficult question, because... how should I call it. It basically trades 'mechanical' benefits for better interactions, potentially reads, the part that you can't measure.

Mechanically, it's correct to claim as late as possible. But if you claim early, you can lead and hopefully improve discussion.

What this means I think is that the question can't be fully answered. It certainly can't be mathd out. Personally, I'd have claimed either at the start of day 1 or day 2. But I think it's not Jimmmm's style to "lead" others in mafia.

[yuma]

Actually, Yuma, was my claim realistic in this setup?  If you did decide to make Bulletproof a role (not a modifier), how would you word it?

I would have worded it 1-shot Bulletproof Neighborizer, but that isn't what you are asking... But Bulletproof Townie probably would have worked. However, Bulletproof Townie wasn't in the role listing, maybe it should have been because Bulletproof certainly could have been a role, and not a modifier per the rules.

But I think "Neighborizing 1-shot Bulletproof" looks a bit weird. At one point I did have just "Townie" listed as a possible role, but removed it because it is lame and that would have put you up to 4 role/modifiers. So in hindsight "Bulletproof Townie" should have been in the list along with "Bulletproof"

[yuma]

Edit: @Yuma, naw that makes perfect sense to me. Its just tragic and means my role never did a thing the whole game, lol.

No... You stopped Hydrad from ever getting a useful result!

[Witherweaver]

Thing is, with the rest of the roles 1-shot Bulletproof Neighborizor sounds like both "1-shot" and "Bulletproof" are modifying "Neighborizor".

[XerxesPraelor]

too many games where scum gets lynched day 1 and wins...

Faust, gkrieg, and I make a power team. (although I think WW was close to being MVP - managing to survive with a guilty result on you takes some skill, no matter the circumstances)

[iguanaiguana]

I still can't believe that every single one of my long-winded scumreads On D4 was spot on and yet I still lost the game for town.

[XerxesPraelor]

I still can't believe that every single one of my long-winded scumreads On D4 was spot on and yet I still lost the game for town.

Yeah you were really scary.

[iguanaiguana]

I still can't believe that every single one of my long-winded scumreads On D4 was spot on and yet I still lost the game for town.

Yeah you were really scary.

Thanks!

From now on, I will have a lot more confidence in myself and I ABSOLUTELY 100% DO NOT LISTEN TO FAUST!

[ashersky]

I ABSOLUTELY 100% DO NOT LISTEN TO FAUST!

Sig it.

[faust]

too many games where scum gets lynched day 1 and wins...

Only the ones where I am scum!

[iguanaiguana]

too many games where scum gets lynched day 1 and wins...

Only the ones where I am scum!

And as long as I keep playing, never again!

[faust]

This is my QT. Some stuff is deleted, don't worry about it.

http://quicktopic.com/51/H/2RAWXehDMFf4u

[iguanaiguana]

From Faust's QT:

"Yeah Hide behind Ampharos"

Laughing at it because I have made the opposite mistake so many times : P

[yuma]

Thing is, with the rest of the roles 1-shot Bulletproof Neighborizor sounds like both "1-shot" and "Bulletproof" are modifying "Neighborizor".

That is a fair point. So I imagine if I had actually made the role I would have termed it Neighborizing 1-shot Bulletproof Townie, but would have added in the "Bulletproof Townie" as a possible role/modifier but since that wasn't included obviously within the current constructs of the game it was impossible.

[gkrieg13]

too many games where scum gets lynched day 1 and wins...

Faust, gkrieg, and I make a power team. (although I think WW was close to being MVP - managing to survive with a guilty result on you takes some skill, no matter the circumstances)

We make a power team in the fact that I get bussed D1 and then win!

[ashersky]

too many games where scum gets lynched day 1 and wins...

Faust, gkrieg, and I make a power team. (although I think WW was close to being MVP - managing to survive with a guilty result on you takes some skill, no matter the circumstances)

We make a power team in the fact that I get bussed D1 and then win!

Should have claimed masons.

[gkrieg13]

too many games where scum gets lynched day 1 and wins...

Faust, gkrieg, and I make a power team. (although I think WW was close to being MVP - managing to survive with a guilty result on you takes some skill, no matter the circumstances)

We make a power team in the fact that I get bussed D1 and then win!

Should have claimed masons.

That is the only time I haven't died D1 as scum...

[Hydrad]

oh man. The instant I logged on to see RR lynched I knew faust was scum. I didn't expect double scum but I should of put it together.

Also yuma can you now tell me who would of won if it was me and a scum left? I'm kinda curious

[Witherweaver]

oh man. The instant I logged on to see RR lynched I knew faust was scum. I didn't expect double scum but I should of put it together.

Also yuma can you now tell me who would of won if it was me and a scum left? I'm kinda curious

My guess is it would be a draw as you'd kill the last scum at day start.

[Hydrad]

oh man. The instant I logged on to see RR lynched I knew faust was scum. I didn't expect double scum but I should of put it together.

Also yuma can you now tell me who would of won if it was me and a scum left? I'm kinda curious

My guess is it would be a draw as you'd kill the last scum at day start.

yuma gave me this when i asked.

From the OP

in the event of a standstill that can't be broken the mod will determine the winner from a pre-established set of criteria that will not be made public. (Think how boxing wins are rewarded when no KO occurs). This will only be used as an absolute last resort under extreme situations

[Witherweaver]

Well, if I were lynched Faust could have chosen to no-kill, but I already Poisoned you last night, so you would have died tonight and gotten a vengekill regardless.

[yuma]

Also yuma can you now tell me who would of won if it was me and a scum left? I'm kinda curious

if you were left with a scum that would perform the kill on you and then you would vengekill them I would have given the win to scum.

This was based off some criteria for the surviving players that was established which included:

posting frequency
mislynch bonus for scum
correct lynch bonus for town
mislynch minus for town
correct bus minus for scum (this one isn't as significant as bussing can be a positive)
use of night actions-ranked
MVP bonus during any phase
necessity for moderator prods

And given those criteria, either WW or faust I think would have had a stronger game and thus mafia would have been declared the winner. Ultimately I am just glad it didn't come to that...

[yuma]

Also apologies to those who were a bit disappointed with their roles. Not all the roles could be the best ones ever.

Also really surprised no one ever really bought up questioning people with extremely similar roles to each other.

2 docs, 2 JKs, 2 bodyguards, 2 cops, etc...

I thought for sure there would have been some "no way there are two X in this setup"

[Witherweaver]

Well I did try a "no way are there two hiders in this setup" to get Faust lynched~

[Witherweaver]

And part of the fervor of lynching Ash was we  already had flipped and claimed cops.

[iguanaiguana]

I noticed all the doubles right away and was most suspicious of people who had no parallel... but that was because I knew there were two jailkeeps from the end of day 2.

WW and I did address this topic in our N2 neighborhood though.

In the end, the only 'no way' I truly believed in was 'no way there are 5 scum!' and that cost town the game.

[faust]

5. EgorK doctors faust - has no effect due to faust hiding
6. Ampharos bodyguards faust - has no effect due to faust hiding
7. Roadrunner bodyguards faust loudly - has no effect due to faust hiding, no PM sent

This is pretty funny.

[pingpongsam]

faust is super strong but I thought he overplayed his hand this game. His scumtell is overbearing confidence. I tried to kill him N2 but he was not hittable due to hiding (I think he may have been doctored, too). As the game progressed I was torn on the dissonance of his strong arguments that seemed fairly towny and the scumtelling weight he was putting behind it all to drive the game. I had a back pocket plan to claim one shot vig or something if I did succeed in night killing scum.

[faust]

About the setup:

I think the idea is pretty cool. Having a list of possible roles and a somewhat restricted format allows scum to really piece together awesome fakeclaims - a potential that was not fully exploited I think. I'm kinda curious why yuma decided to include unknown roles.

5 scum in 14 players is quite okay in an RMM game. RMM tends to favor town anyway. My role was obviously pretty good, though I think not broken. The fact that both iguana and Hydrad were alive for that long made the endgame tricky... it worked out, but it had me worried for quite a while. If iguana had targetted WW, things would have been a lot harder.

It was ultmately balanced I believe. I mean, scum was off a pretty bad start. If PPS hadn't slipped up, I don't know if we would have made it. Both Xerxes and WW looked bad for the D1 lynch. I felt like we were on the brink of losing almost the whole time, only barely managing to keep going.

[yuma]

Well as for made up roles... There is one that I consider made up that was included. "Investigative" I don't think is a specific role type. It obviously implies copping. But I don't think there is a specific mafiascum description for it. Once I made that I felt it necessary to include others to make it so that there wasn't just one invented role. There were pro types for roles in the drafts of setups but each one was ultimately discarded. And not all of those made up roles were real. Some were simply bluffs.

And I tried to give mafia roles that were reasonably townie... Cop, watcher, hider, gunsmith and neighbor are all townies roles to lessen the impact of requiring fake claims. There was the possibility of mafia wanted to do so, but I didn't want to make them have a completely made up role as I feel that is a major difficulty for mafia in RMM games.

Anyways I will be interested to see what faust does with this concept. Auto-sign me up for it.