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[Jorbles]

Tavern Brawl is open!

BUT I'M AT WORK!

[AHoppy]

Tavern Brawl is open!

And it was pretty fun

[KingZog3]

Tavern Brawl is open!

And it was pretty fun

I'm out of town with no way to play or the week! Noooo! What's it like?

[blueblimp]

Tavern Brawl is open!

And it was pretty fun

I'm out of town with no way to play or the week! Noooo! What's it like?

It's like the single-player adventures except multiplayer and you're each playing a boss's deck. I was underwhelmed at first since I was hoping for something more interesting (like with a deck-building aspect), but I warmed up to it after a few games. It's kinda fun.

[Jorbles]

Nozdormu Nefarian seems way better than Rag.

Edit: Wrong dragon.

[EgorK]

Nozdormu seems way better than Rag.

Only he is Nefarian. And probably yes, although my only loss is using him (Nefarian: 4-1, Rag: 1-0)

[Awaclus]

"I must choose! I choose death!"

[Haddock]

Nozdormu seems way better than Rag.

Only he is Nefarian. And probably yes, although my only loss is using him (Nefarian: 4-1, Rag: 1-0)

I lost my first Rag game, won the second, and have only been Nefarian since.  Is it a "Win with Rag, graduate to Nefarian" type deal?  Seems odd if so; anyone able to contradict that hypothesis?

[Jorbles]

Nozdormu seems way better than Rag.

Only he is Nefarian. And probably yes, although my only loss is using him (Nefarian: 4-1, Rag: 1-0)

I lost my first Rag game, won the second, and have only been Nefarian since.  Is it a "Win with Rag, graduate to Nefarian" type deal?  Seems odd if so; anyone able to contradict that hypothesis?

My first game was with Nefarian and my second was with Rag.

[Twistedarcher]

This is fun but fairly unbalanced. Nefarian's starting hand seems to be the biggest factor in who wins, unfortunately.

[Jorbles]

I agree that it seems to be pretty luck based, but in Nefarian's favour. If Nefarian has above average luck, he should just win; Rag gets run over in unfavourable situations.

It's the first Brawl though and only lasts another day or two. I'm interested in seeing what the next one will be.

[Jorbles]

Should we start a Brawl thread for Brawl related discussions?

[ashersky]

Should we start a Brawl thread for Brawl related discussions?

I split this out from you.

Also, apologies to Drab -- I accidentally lost a post of yours in the split.

[Jorbles]

Should we start a Brawl thread for Brawl related discussions?

I split this out from you.

Also, apologies to Drab -- I accidentally lost a post of yours in the split.

And as a result I have the first post! Well met!

[markusin]

Gave this a go. It shows promise for me, but Nefarian seems so OP this week. I opened Vaelestraz (6 mana 7/7 that makes your cards cost 3 less) + Blacking Tech + Blackwing Tech (both buffed by my 4 mana 7/7 Chromatic Dragon). Turn 2 I get Charge with Hero power to play on Chromatic Dragon to kill the 6/6 Taunt. Opponent just resigns right there. The game before I was Rag, and I resigned at like Turn 3.

I got Sylvanas from my free pack though. I already had Sylvanas though. Looks like a 400 dust bonus for me then.

[Jorbles]

Lucky, I got 40 dust in my free pack. Is there a free pack every week for the Brawls or just first week? I thought it would probably be first week, but maybe just maybe it's for longer?

[Drab Emordnilap]

Should we start a Brawl thread for Brawl related discussions?

I split this out from you.

Also, apologies to Drab -- I accidentally lost a post of yours in the split.

My post! That one probably had like, 300 rep.

[ashersky]

Should we start a Brawl thread for Brawl related discussions?

I split this out from you.

Also, apologies to Drab -- I accidentally lost a post of yours in the split.

My post! That one probably had like, 300 rep.

We can rebuilt it here.

[Haddock]

Seems to me, if Rag makes it to the late game he just flat out wins, but that's pretty tough to do, and very sensitive to starting hands...

[blueblimp]

Seems to me, if Rag makes it to the late game he just flat out wins,

I don't think this is even true. Wild Magic is a very strong hero power, maybe not quite as strong as Rag's 8 random damage, but pretty close. I find that as Nef, even if I don't get a dream start, then weaving Wild Magic in every turn gives me a lot of value, which can close out the game even if Rag stabilizes.

But my opinion might be distorted by a lot of players I faced making pretty big misplays.

[Twistedarcher]

I think once rag stabilizes, it's tough for nefarian unless he can pull enough face damage from spells. But stabilizing is tough.

[Jorbles]

New Brawl is apparently live on EU and coming to NA soon.

New Brawl rules, copy/pastaed from r/hearthstone:

Gather your Bananas! Just started on EU servers. Good luck everyone!
You can create your own Deck with cards from your collection
Any class
No special Brawl cards selectable
You get a random Banana every time one of your minions dies
Bananas are spells and the ones datamined on Hearthpwn (see below)
Playing King Mukla has NO effect (besides giving your opponent 2 normal bananas)!
Just 1 Tavern Brawl Deck Slot. You need to delete your current Brawl deck to create one with a new class
Thanks to /u/thejdcole for posting in comments:
Bananas can be one of the following 1 mana spells:
Rotten: Deal 1 Damage
Normal: +1/+1
Deviate: Swap a minions attack and health
Big Banana: +2/+2

[Grujah]

Best card in format:
Violet Teacher 

Also mana addict.
And when you play swap-banana on it, buffs become permanent.

[Jorbles]

Best card in format:
Violet Teacher 

Also mana addict.

There's a lot of really great cards in this format including anything that creates lots of tokens or generates value from casting either your own spells and your opponent casting spells.

Token generators:
Violet Teacher
Imp Master
Muster
Snake Trap
UtH
Death rattlers (Haunted Creeper and the like)
Force of Nature
Mirror Image
Imp Gang Boss

Spell value (your own):
Mana Wyrm
Antonidas
Flame Walker
Mana Addict
that dude who creates Mechs for spells

Spell value (your opponents):
All Troggs (get value from your opponent casting spells)
Gallywix
Spellbender

I'm looking forward to trying a variety of decks in this format.

[markusin]

Really like this format. I got milled by a Druid my first try against my combo Warrior. Second try I beat a zoolock deck with a tempo Mage with Antonidas. Lots of cool decks that can be build.

[KingZog3]

I have 8 wins in a row with my zoo/giant deck. Imp-losion is amazing. Mountain giants are 3 mana 8/8s. I have only 1 twilight drake in favour of more early game minions. I might try shredder, but the high health works really well with all the reversing switches.

[ashersky]

Outside of fun, is there any reason to play the brawl past one win?

I built my old Token Druid deck and won my first game (against a typical Mage).

[markusin]

Outside of fun, is there any reason to play the brawl past one win?

I built my old Token Druid deck and won my first game (against a typical Mage).

It counts towards your daily quests. So for example, if you have a Rogue quest and don't want to play a constructed level Rogue deck, you can make a Rogue deck for Tavern Brawl instead. It's ultimately anther game mode that feels like a new boss battle every week.

I don't find myself playing it after I've got my rewards though.

[KingZog3]

You still get your 10 gold every 3 wins. Plus its fun. I'm having a blast with this week's brawl. I might be done with it by tomorrow but it's a good one. It's better than my initial analysis.

[Jorbles]

Yeah, I think part of the appeal for me is that this is relatively uncharted territory so you get to build new decks and play around with different ideas. I went 3-1 with Mage this morning, (and the one I lost was because I roped out when I was trying to kill a Questing Adventurer with Acolytes, but ran out of time).

[Jorbles]

I'm gonna see how well Mill Rogue does now that I'm just playing it for fun.

[KingZog3]

I tried mill rogue a little. It worked ok, but not as good as decks that are playing creepers and eggs. The cards that the best are spell and buff synergy, and cards that drop tons of minions.

[KingZog3]

Mistress of pain is super effective at stopping all this aggression. Buff it, heals you tons and kills things.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Outside of fun, is there any reason to play the brawl past one win?

Outside of fun, is there any reason to play Hearthstone?

[pingpongsam]

Mistress of pain is super effective at stopping all this aggression. Buff it, heals you tons and kills things.

Yeah, I discovered this today. I'm enjoying banana brawl but it is clear that there is the usual netdecking going on because almost every deck is the same Mage or Paladin deck. That tends to make sense in constructed because ultimately you can't be competitive without meeting the meta. In Banana Brawl though I've not once found a need to hunt for a pre-run deck. Mistress, Dragon Egg, Void Terror, Gang Boss with Murloc aggression is my current deck but I can just as easily switch it up. I'm averaging well over 50% win rate against the clone decks so clearly there is room for improvisation and experimentation. That there is such a strong netdeck mentality here is depressing really.

So far, I'm thrilled with having a weekly switchup that still pays out Gold and class experience. I've actually gotten as high as ever in constructed (Rank 5) and I'm leveraging Tavern Brawl to meet daily quests and have fun while I wait for the season to end. Often I rank well and drop 5 or more ranks trying to eke out a daily quest.

[qmech]

You wait forever for a meta in which Malygos is playable, then two come along at once.

[ycz6]

Is anyone else running Mass Dispel? It's been getting pretty crazy value for me, what with all the bananas and Haunted Creepers and Questing Adventurers flying around.

[Drab Emordnilap]

Often I rank well and drop 5 or more ranks trying to eke out a daily quest.

You could always do dailies in Casual before.

[KingZog3]

Is anyone else running Mass Dispel? It's been getting pretty crazy value for me, what with all the bananas and Haunted Creepers and Questing Adventurers flying around.

I tried it. I didn't get much value, but I don't think I got the best situations for it. Still I think that it's a big slow since it gives you no board presence which is what you need.

[Titandrake]

I'm not sure if people are netdecking or not. People are going to tend towards Mage/Paladin anyways - it doesn't take great insight to see Flamewalker is ridiculous and Muster for Battle is ridiculous, and from there general tweaking gets you something pretty close.

I have Target Dummies in my Tavern Brawl deck and I actually like them a lot. Usually you're gated by mana or buff targets, not by # of bananas you have. Taunt is surprisingly annoying since creatures get buffed really big, and since it starts with 0 attack you can deny letting your opponent trade minions if you want to.

[KingZog3]

The problem with playing 0 attack minions with no buffs is that deviant banana just kills them.

[pingpongsam]

The problem with playing 0 attack minions with no buffs is that deviant banana just kills them.

Dragon Egg, Nerubian Egg

[markusin]

The problem with playing 0 attack minions with no buffs is that deviant banana just kills them.

Dragon Egg, Nerubian Egg

Deviant banana kills dragon egg for free. No damage = no whelps. Still, Dragon egg is a nice buff target.

[pingpongsam]

The problem with playing 0 attack minions with no buffs is that deviant banana just kills them.

Dragon Egg, Nerubian Egg

Deviant banana kills dragon egg for free. No damage = no whelps. Still, Dragon egg is a nice buff target.

Right, what was I thinking?

[KingZog3]

I dont think neribuan is worth it. It's super easy to activate, but a 4/4 as a reward isn't great. I'd rather play an echoing ooze.

[ycz6]

Theory: Unstable Portal is going to be playable, one way or another, in every Tavern Brawl.

[markusin]

Theory: Unstable Portal is going to be playable, one way or another, in every Tavern Brawl.

I think this will depend on whether any Tavern Brawls make any class of cards much worse than usual. If there is a Tavern Brawl that makes cards with 4 or more attack cost 3 extra mana or something, then you probably don't want Unstable Portal.

Not saying that would be a fun Tavern Brawl or anything.

[pingpongsam]

Not overly enthused with this Brawl. But I'm not overly enthused with RNG heavy mechanics. As far as I can tell even the starting deck is RNG and then the spiders are obv. RNG. The "good news" is there shouldn't be any dominating class or strategy for everyone to subscribe to. The bad news is there isn't any room to exercise skill. I felt Banana Brawl really exemplified skill based playing since anyone can run zoo and sticky cards but syngergizing them with a shared mechanic showed how weak most players actually are since I won well over 70% of the games in the end with thrown together best guess decks.

[Watno]

Theres Totemic Might in the Shaman deck...

[sitnaltax]

I'm really loving Tavern Brawl. Lots of different decks, funny situations, and "what if" questions answered.

In this Spider Brawl, I was playing Priest, because I had some quests. We spent the first two turns bringing out spiders and hitting face. On opp's turn 3, he traded one spider. He got a Timber Wolf and hit my face with the other spiders. I got a Scavenging Hyena, and was looking forward to capitalizing on that mistake by trading the rest of the spiders into a huge hyena...

then I topdecked a Mass Dispel. The opponent resigned.

[Titandrake]

Yeah I don't like this Tavern Brawl that much either. The Nefarian vs Rag has cool effects and undercosted cards, so even when you lost to RNG it still felt fun. This one, I'm not feeling as much.

[Jorbles]

This one doesn't seem as well thought out. The Warlock deck has Sense Demons, but no demons to draw? It does seem like there's some superior strategies when saving key beasts, but I don't like it as much as banana land and rag vs nefarian.

[Jorbles]

I just tried to look up the decks and discovered that the spells you draw are random class spells, so they weren't constructed decks at all.

[Awaclus]

Yeah, this TB was horrible. If one player gets something awesome, the other player will have a very hard time doing anything about it with completely random cards. Like for instance when my opponent got a Mal'Ganis from a t5 Bane of Doom.

And it completed my 40 gold daily quest that I didn't want to complete today. 

[blueblimp]

This Webspinner brawl sounds good on paper but boy is it unfun. Problem is that there is a small handful of really OP beasts and the rest range from OK to horrible. I don't mind RNG generally but it's just not fun to have a hand of garbage when your opponent plays a Savannah Highmane, and on the flip side, even the strong beasts are not very interesting to play.

[Drab Emordnilap]

Silverback Patriarch has never been so good, though.

[ashersky]

This Webspinner brawl sounds good on paper but boy is it unfun. Problem is that there is a small handful of really OP beasts and the rest range from OK to horrible. I don't mind RNG generally but it's just not fun to have a hand of garbage when your opponent plays a Savannah Highmane, and on the flip side, even the strong beasts are not very interesting to play.

I played once for my pack.  Got Gazilla, Malorne, King of Beasts...he got Mukla, Captains Parrot, raptor, croc...

I got my pack.

[KingZog3]

This brawl was fun for about 5 games. It's just too random. I'd rather something in between, like I can choose a few cards in a deck of web spinners.

[Awaclus]

This brawl was fun for about 5 games. It's just too random. I'd rather something in between, like I can choose a few cards in a deck of web spinners.

You're patient. It was fun for about 3 deathrattles for me.

[KingZog3]

This brawl was fun for about 5 games. It's just too random. I'd rather something in between, like I can choose a few cards in a deck of web spinners.

You're patient. It was fun for about 3 deathrattles for me.

I played every class I think. But not all the games were fun.

[markusin]

This Tavern Brawl mainly served as a reminder that The Beast is a sucky card. It also made me try out Core Rager. It was a fair card in this format. King of Beasts never showed up.

[Drab Emordnilap]

This was my favorite Tavern Brawl so far. It's super easy to do class quests, and I don't have to build a deck.

[KingZog3]

This Tavern Brawl mainly served as a reminder that The Beast is a sucky card. It also made me try out Core Rager. It was a fair card in this format. King of Beasts never showed up.

King of Beasts is actually a star in this format. It's often really big and annoying to get through. I've seen 6/6 KoB.

[markusin]

This was my favorite Tavern Brawl so far. It's super easy to do class quests, and I don't have to build a deck.

Yup. It was a great way to complete my Rogue quest.

[pingpongsam]

Tundra Rhino is the overall strongest beast in this Brawl.

[Watno]

New Brawl seems to be quite interesting: Whenever you play a spell, you summon a minion of equal cost.
I think i like this one best so far.

[Jorbles]

I was playing this morning and completely forgot about the new brawl.

[KingZog3]

Oh geez how does this work?! It's really interesting

[Awaclus]

This is amusing. In a Mage mirror, I got a Lorewalker Cho and it took a while before it was gotten rid of.

[KingZog3]

So Mage is good. But I think Hunter is better. Animal Companion is amazing, secretes clear all the little stuff too.

[Awaclus]

Why are people playing Mirror Entity in this Brawl?  I've already had two opponents sit on it for ages before finally copying my 2/1 Unstable Portal minion or something.

[Jorbles]

Priest seems like the class I'm going to play when I get into this Brawl. Shadow Madness, Holy Nova, Mind Vision, Thought Steal, Mind Control, Light Bomb, SW:P, SW:D all seem like really good value in this mode.

[KingZog3]

Priest seems like the class I'm going to play when I get into this Brawl. Shadow Madness, Holy Nova, Mind Vision, Thought Steal, Mind Control, Light Bomb, SW:P, SW:D all seem like really good value in this mode.

Yeah Priest seems good. Cobra shot is decent, since it removes all the little stuff that comes out and summons something decent.

[ycz6]

My very first Brawl, my opponent summoned Baron Rivendare, Leper Gnome, Undertaker, and Leper Gnome in consecutive pulls. I then got a Deathlord, which he killed to summon his own Deathlord. I only had one minion left in my deck though

This list may prove useful: http://www.hearthhead.com/cards=5?filter=stat-cost-min=5;stat-cost-max=10#gallery:0+4+5+3+1 I'm considering crafting a Tree of Life just for this Brawl

[KingZog3]

9 mana minions aren't amazing. Some are great, like Ysera, but then there's Majordomo, Jaraxxus, Cenarius, Nozdormu. Then again the healing might make it ok. Majordomo though.

[ycz6]

Hm, good call. It looks like the 8 mana minions are actually better on average, since none of them have Battlecries, they all have decent stats, and a solid 5/11 of them have either Charge or Taunt or are Ragnaros.

8: http://www.hearthhead.com/cards=?filter=stat-cost-min=8;stat-cost-max=8
9: http://www.hearthhead.com/cards=?filter=stat-cost-min=9;stat-cost-max=9

[ycz6]

Best coincidence so far: Playing Force of Nature with 6 minions on the field, summoning an Argent Commander.

[ashersky]

Some Druid spells are nice.  Soul of the Forest and Call of the Wild, especially.

[markusin]

Some Druid spells are nice.  Soul of the Forest and Call of the Wild, especially.

Man, I played an intense control matchup as Priest against a mean Druid running all sorts of removal and control. 2 Naturalizes, 2 Poison Seeds, 2 Recyles, a Tree of Life, and other big spells. I think the funniest part was when my opponent got Kidnapper after playing a Recycle, then I played Holy Fire and also got a Kidnapper.

I ended up winning in the end. Auchenai's really came in handy at key moments. This is one format where Nefarian probably surpasses Ysera.

[ashersky]

Some Druid spells are nice.  Soul of the Forest and Call of the Wild, especially.

Man, I played an intense control matchup as Priest against a mean Druid running all sorts of removal and control. 2 Naturalizes, 2 Poison Seeds, 2 Recyles, a Tree of Life, and other big spells. I think the funniest part was when my opponent got Kidnapper after playing a Recycle, then I played Holy Fire and also got a Kidnapper.

I ended up winning in the end. Auchenai's really came in handy at key moments. This is one format where Nefarian probably surpasses Ysera.

I haven't played against any class but Mage.  It's crazy, really.

[Drab Emordnilap]

Why are people playing Mirror Entity in this Brawl?  I've already had two opponents sit on it for ages before finally copying my 2/1 Unstable Portal minion or something.

I guess the thinking is that, if you're playing a minion in your deck, it must be a good one.

[KingZog3]

Druid is the clear winner. The amount of 6 cost spells is amazing, and they are good spells. Mage really isn't that good. Sure you can zerg the board up with cheap spells, but it's do easy for a Druid to just use Soul of the Forest or Power of the Wild to catch back up. Even Dark Whispers is really good as 5 wisps.

Coin Wild Growth is crazy, and even more crazy if you have Innervates to get PotW out.

[KingZog3]

Why are people playing Mirror Entity in this Brawl?  I've already had two opponents sit on it for ages before finally copying my 2/1 Unstable Portal minion or something.

I guess the thinking is that, if you're playing a minion in your deck, it must be a good one.

Actually I think it's that people see "spells summon minions" to mean play as many spells as you can, so they take their flamwaker mage and this it'll be good. But playing any minions is a loss in this format. You want to play big removal spells, or things that summon too many minions to handle. It's a control format, where slower decks can crush face rush decks.

[Titandrake]

Opponent plays KT. I play Mind Control summoning Deathwing.

I mean, my board got cleared by Lightbomb next turn, but it was still great for a short while.

Edit: I'm liking Priest control a lot here. If you can stall until a point where you can play Mind Control, you get a free Sea Giant and/or Deathwing. Thoughtsteal is bonkers, Shadow Madness is bonkers. I just had a very strange Priest control mirror where we both knew the other had Mind Control, so no one wanted to play Mind Control because the other player steals the Sea Giant/Deathwing with their own. Eventually my board got too big and it forced the play.

Edit 2: People have pointed out that if you play Millhouse, although your opponent gets to empty their hand for free, they also only get Wisps/Target Dummies, so it might be worth it if you have one lying around.

[markusin]

Opponent plays KT. I play Mind Control summoning Deathwing.

I mean, my board got cleared by Lightbomb next turn, but it was still great for a short while.

Edit: I'm liking Priest control a lot here. If you can stall until a point where you can play Mind Control, you get a free Sea Giant and/or Deathwing. Thoughtsteal is bonkers, Shadow Madness is bonkers. I just had a very strange Priest control mirror where we both knew the other had Mind Control, so no one wanted to play Mind Control because the other player steals the Sea Giant/Deathwing with their own. Eventually my board got too big and it forced the play.

Edit 2: People have pointed out that if you play Millhouse, although your opponent gets to empty their hand for free, they also only get Wisps/Target Dummies, so it might be worth it if you have one lying around.

What's tough about playing Priest is that they don't have enough good spells to fill almost their entire deck with them like Druid can. You need some Minions in there, and you gotta pick good ones. I was worried that Resurrect wouldn't be as good as usual since you may be playing low cost minions at the start, but thinking about it now it has potential to be quite good later on.

[Titandrake]

Opponent plays KT. I play Mind Control summoning Deathwing.

I mean, my board got cleared by Lightbomb next turn, but it was still great for a short while.

Edit: I'm liking Priest control a lot here. If you can stall until a point where you can play Mind Control, you get a free Sea Giant and/or Deathwing. Thoughtsteal is bonkers, Shadow Madness is bonkers. I just had a very strange Priest control mirror where we both knew the other had Mind Control, so no one wanted to play Mind Control because the other player steals the Sea Giant/Deathwing with their own. Eventually my board got too big and it forced the play.

Edit 2: People have pointed out that if you play Millhouse, although your opponent gets to empty their hand for free, they also only get Wisps/Target Dummies, so it might be worth it if you have one lying around.

What's tough about playing Priest is that they don't have enough good spells to fill almost their entire deck with them like Druid can. You need some Minions in there, and you gotta pick good ones. I was worried that Resurrect wouldn't be as good as usual since you may be playing low cost minions at the start, but thinking about it now it has potential to be quite good later on.

I'll agree that Druid has more good spells at the higher cost range, but Priest spells are still good.

Deck I ended up with after around 5 games of tweaking: http://imgur.com/opXRHKr

I don't have Lightbomb, or else I'd run that for sure. This does have some board clear trouble, which is why I need to run Auchenai-Circle, but otherwise I've been liking it.

[pingpongsam]

I've been doing the majority of my winning with Paladin. I had a daily today requiring either Mage or Shaman wins. I tried Shaman first and either Shaman is terrible in this format or I am terrible because I literally never play Shaman. I struggled to get the 5 Mage wins, probably 12 games?. Back to Paladin where I easily get 70+% winrate.

[markusin]

Opponent plays KT. I play Mind Control summoning Deathwing.

I mean, my board got cleared by Lightbomb next turn, but it was still great for a short while.

Edit: I'm liking Priest control a lot here. If you can stall until a point where you can play Mind Control, you get a free Sea Giant and/or Deathwing. Thoughtsteal is bonkers, Shadow Madness is bonkers. I just had a very strange Priest control mirror where we both knew the other had Mind Control, so no one wanted to play Mind Control because the other player steals the Sea Giant/Deathwing with their own. Eventually my board got too big and it forced the play.

Edit 2: People have pointed out that if you play Millhouse, although your opponent gets to empty their hand for free, they also only get Wisps/Target Dummies, so it might be worth it if you have one lying around.

What's tough about playing Priest is that they don't have enough good spells to fill almost their entire deck with them like Druid can. You need some Minions in there, and you gotta pick good ones. I was worried that Resurrect wouldn't be as good as usual since you may be playing low cost minions at the start, but thinking about it now it has potential to be quite good later on.

I'll agree that Druid has more good spells at the higher cost range, but Priest spells are still good.

Deck I ended up with after around 5 games of tweaking: http://imgur.com/opXRHKr

I don't have Lightbomb, or else I'd run that for sure. This does have some board clear trouble, which is why I need to run Auchenai-Circle, but otherwise I've been liking it.

Yeah I also ended up running Auchenai+circle. I should have used thoughtsteal in my deck. I didn't realize I'd be stealing spells. I have one copy of Lightbomb that I used.

[markusin]

I've been doing the majority of my winning with Paladin. I had a daily today requiring either Mage or Shaman wins. I tried Shaman first and either Shaman is terrible in this format or I am terrible because I literally never play Shaman. I struggled to get the 5 Mage wins, probably 12 games?. Back to Paladin where I easily get 70+% winrate.

I think Warlock and Warrior might have it even worse that Shaman. A lot of their good spells will damage the minions they summon, or else the spells have a low mana cost.

This Tavern Brawl manages to buff Warrior's Crush spell when it costs 7.

[Jorbles]

I played Priest with all spells:
Shadow Madness, Holy Nova, Mind Vision, Thought Steal, Mind Control, Light Bomb, SW:P, SW:D, Light of Naaru, Holy Smite, Holy Fire, Mass Dispel, Velen's Chosen, PW:S, Mind Blast.

30 cards.

Most of these cards speak for themselves, but some of them aren't great. Mind Blast and Mass Dispel are relatively weak in this mode, but they're good enough to run because Mind Blast works like a 2 drop, and can help you end the game, and Mass Dispel is situationally great, gives you a 4 drop, and replaces itself in your hand. Light of Naaru is surprisingly strong because it gives you 2 creatures for 1 spell and often lets you trade favourably at the same time, Resurrect is incredibly bad (I tried it and would not again, the quality of your creatures isn't good enough). Divine Spirit seems potentially good, but I haven't tried it yet.

A lot of the Priest spells are really good because they function in a similar way to BGH (remove a creature, gain a creature). Some of the others work pretty well because they're like a Shattered Sun Cleric (buff a creature, gain a creature).

I hadn't thought of Druid, but a mode in which having overpriced spells is actually a good thing is kindof funny.

[Awaclus]

I played 8 games with Mage and won all of them.

[Jorbles]

I hadn't thought of Druid, but a mode in which having overpriced spells is actually a good thing is kindof funny.

Nourish and Recycle in particular seem amazing in this mode. Bite seems finally playable. Savage Roar/FON finishes seem a lot easier to get when everything you do puts more minions on the board. I'm going to have to try this.

[pingpongsam]

So, I threw together a Druid deck and sure enough it is just easy to play it on autopilot, downside being you and the other guy know exactly what is coming next. Have not tried Priest yet but the competition is either lousy or overpowering so I think it must be pretty draw dependent.

[ycz6]

Re: Whether Shaman is playable:

I don't think a typical midrange/control Shaman has much of a chance in this format. The only way you can really win is with a lucky Bloodlust; Shaman only has two spells which cost 4 or more, and a lot of their other spells are really situational.

However! Yesterday I lost to a Shaman with a really cool 2x Ancestor's Call deck. The first one brought out Chromaggus and gave me nothing, since I was running a spell-only Druid deck, and I couldn't deal with it for several turns. His second one summoned Enhance-o Mechano, which seems like a questionable but interesting inclusion, but by that point he was so far ahead that it didn't matter, and he just ran me over.

Ancestor's Call seems super potent in this format, what with all the spell-only decks running around. Malygos and Troggzor are probably the best target, but Ysera, Chromaggus, Sneed's, Al'akir, and Deathwing also seem pretty crazy.

[ashersky]

I hadn't thought of Druid, but a mode in which having overpriced spells is actually a good thing is kindof funny.

Nourish and Recycle in particular seem amazing in this mode. Bite seems finally playable. Savage Roar/FON finishes seem a lot easier to get when everything you do puts more minions on the board. I'm going to have to try this.

Nourish especially.  5-drop and draw three cards.  Crazy.

[markusin]

Ancestor's Call seems super potent in this format, what with all the spell-only decks running around. Malygos and Troggzor are probably the best target, but Ysera, Chromaggus, Sneed's, Al'akir, and Deathwing also seem pretty crazy.

Sadly I don't have Ancestor's call or any of the legendaries you mentioned here besides Chromaggus. Such pay-2-win.

[Grujah]

Favourite Twisting Neather spawns:

Kel'Thuzard and Tirion

[markusin]

Favourite Twisting Neather spawns:

Kel'Thuzard and Tirion

The minions spawn before the spell is cast. Shouldn't they die to the Nether? That's what happens with Poison Seeds. Well, you'd still get Ashbringer in Tirion's case.

[Grujah]

Yeah, Sneeds, not Kel.

I did pull of Tirion + Nether once. It is awesome.

[markusin]

Yeah, Sneeds, not Kel.

I did pull of Tirion + Nether once. It is awesome.

The best would be Sneed's that drops Kel'.

[qmech]

Yeah, Sneeds, not Kel.

I did pull of Tirion + Nether once. It is awesome.

The best would be Sneed's that drops Kel'.

You mean this?

[markusin]

Never saw that video.

[ycz6]

I had a Sneed's Old Shredder in play, and Blessing of Kings + Blessed Champion in hand for lethal. I played the BoK, and it summoned Baron Rivendare. Which left me with the choice of

1) Continue with lethal, or
2) Play Equality and suicide my Sneed's into my opponent's board for two legendaries.

Before I could decide, though, my opponent conceded. Despite me not having lethal on board at the time.

Don't people know how to have fun??

[Jorbles]

I hate when I'm solving the puzzle of how to get lethal and my opponent concedes. How will I ever learn?!

[markusin]

I really wish they'd let us have more than one deck saved for Tavern Brawl at a time. Even just two decks would be enough.

[Watno]

Does anyone see the point of the new Brawl?

[KingZog3]

Super dumb. It seems to be one week pre-made decks, the other build your own deck.

[Drab Emordnilap]

Does anyone see the point of the new Brawl?

I kind of feel like Tavern brawl is blizzards answer to the problem of, how do new players catch up with old players who have all the cards? You need to win games to get gold and you need to spend gold to get cards and you need to get cards to win games. But with tavern brawls like this week, it breaks the vicious cycle; you don't need to get cards before you can win games. It's not a complete solution, but it may be what they're going for.

[Twistedarcher]

I got to play Hemet Nesingwary on my opponent's The Beast, that was pretty cool.

[markusin]

I started a game for this week's Tavern Brawl and my opponent quit immediately on the first turn. After seeing my starting hand, I have no interest to play out this week's Tavern Brawl any further.

[Jorbles]

I hate this Tavern Brawl... I am 0-3.

[Jorbles]

Oh thank god I won. What a horrible game mode.

[ashersky]

I hate this Tavern Brawl... I am 0-3.

What does the Crossroads theme mean?  I won my one and only game as a Warlock in a mirror.  Couldn't find a sense to the deck.

[AHoppy]

This week's brawl is easily the worst one so far.  Does that make it a bad thing?  No, I don't think so.  It doesn't hurt constructed or arena to have tavern brawl around.  Sure, sometimes it's dumb, sometimes it's hilarious for about 2 plays, and sometimes it has strategic depth.  It's a nice change from the mindset of the other two hearthstone modes, looking at cards in brand new lights, and being forced to play the worst cards. 

[markusin]

This week's brawl is easily the worst one so far.  Does that make it a bad thing?  No, I don't think so.  It doesn't hurt constructed or arena to have tavern brawl around.  Sure, sometimes it's dumb, sometimes it's hilarious for about 2 plays, and sometimes it has strategic depth.  It's a nice change from the mindset of the other two hearthstone modes, looking at cards in brand new lights, and being forced to play the worst cards.

Well this week's theme is like you had an arena draft and picked random stuff from it. I'd rather play Arena to see the less competitive cards duke it out.

[Titandrake]

This week's brawl is easily the worst one so far.  Does that make it a bad thing?  No, I don't think so.  It doesn't hurt constructed or arena to have tavern brawl around.  Sure, sometimes it's dumb, sometimes it's hilarious for about 2 plays, and sometimes it has strategic depth.  It's a nice change from the mindset of the other two hearthstone modes, looking at cards in brand new lights, and being forced to play the worst cards.

Well this week's theme is like you had an arena draft and picked random stuff from it. I'd rather play Arena to see the less competitive cards duke it out.

It's annoying that you have no control over curve at all, but note that not everybody can play Arena on demand. This definitely feels aimed towards newer accounts.

[KingZog3]

This brawl is for sure for newer players. It's not as bad as I had first thought, but it does get old quickly.

[Drab Emordnilap]

So any guesses as to what the new brawl will be?

Silly guess: Whenever you cast a spell/a minion dies/a weapon dies, shuffle two copies of it into your deck. (Construct your own deck.)

[AHoppy]

Construct your own deck, class cards no longer limited to their class.  It has to be coming soon...

[KingZog3]

When you cast a spell/your minion dies/weapon breaks, shuffle a copy into your opponents deck.

[Watno]

It will probably be related to the expansion they announce tomorrow.

[KingZog3]

It will probably be related to the expansion they announce tomorrow.

You can only play argent cards.

[markusin]

It will probably be related to the expansion they announce tomorrow.

You can only play argent cards.

Or maybe all minions that survive damage gain Divine Shield or something like that.

[Watno]

New Brawl has players starting at 10 mana.

[markusin]

New Brawl has players starting at 10 mana.

Eh, that sounds pretty alright actually. "INFINTE MANA", but I guess without "ARMORED DRAGONSCALES".

Edit: Well okay, it seems like a what-if scenario that I feel is ultimately worth the hate it might get. What-if Hearthstone was more like P2W Yu-gi-oh?

[pingpongsam]

I think it is fairly fun. The upside is that there's not enough time for dominant decks to really get distributed and entrenched because there are so many possibilities. The downside is that with no curve draw is almost the only determining factor. So far games are ending quickly and decisively; not seeing any Huntards, lol. Lots of room for creativity mitigated by the fact that heavy bodies are practically requisite. This is one of those ideas that had to be tried and Brawl was the perfect venue. Bravo, Blizzard.

[AHoppy]

T1 holding sprint, prep, coin, he plays loatheb

[markusin]

I bet you can mess people up with Nerub'ar Weblord in this setup.

[markusin]

I bet you can mess people up with Nerub'ar Weblord in this setup.

Heh, had an entertaining moment with my first game. I was Druid against a Mage. Early on I played Nefarian and got Echo of Medivh. I got Echo of Medivh to procure on Nefarian and the 3 charging Treants from Force or Nature. Did you know they're 1 mana? I had Savage Roar too so it was a easy to get lethal.

Yeah this mode is broken, but it's cool to explore just how broken it is. There might be a case for adding Questing Adventurer or something. And Enhance'o Mechano has good target to buff. Of course having Alex is a major boon.

Edit: Second game I killed both my Stalagg and my Feugen with Poison Seeds, getting 2 Thads while killing Nefarian.

[Drab Emordnilap]

My MVP so far is Annoyotron.

I think the key to this one is having small things that are useful against big things, so you can use all 10 mana as often as possible.

[markusin]

My MVP so far is Annoyotron.

I think the key to this one is having small things that are useful against big things, so you can use all 10 mana as often as possible.

Yeah that was my thinking as well. Also, 5 mana stuff is good because you can play two of them in the same turn (Faceless Manipulator is pretty awesome I think). This is also a mode where there is no time to build a draw engine to enable a big multi-card combo because you'll probably be dead by then.

[Galzria]

Also,  you should almost always mulligan for one creature wipe/contain first hand.

I went second in my first game:

Opponent T1: Gah'zrilla, Arcane Shot on Gah'zrilla
My T1: Something
Opponent T2: Elven Archer on Gah'zrilla (24), Kill Command  (5), Hero Power (2).

Unfortunately in all my starting cards there was nothing I could do in a single turn to prevent that.

[Jorbles]

Your opponent shouldn't have even Arcane Shotted first turn as he gave you the opportunity to BGH it, but that's besides the point.

I think almost every class has a possible turn 2 win if you don't have some form of removal or other way to stall (Ice Block, Sludge Belcher, etc).

Though Gahzrilla can do it with Hunter, Malygos can do it in any other class I believe. There's also T1 Onyxia T2 Savage Roar/Bloodlust combos. T1 Alexstraza T2 Anything that can do 15 7 damage. Divine Spirit + Inner Fire combos with Priest, etc.

I suspect some class might even be able to get a T1 win with just the coin/extra card in this format. Maybe with Frothing Berserkers, unsure?

[Jorbles]

Lol, you can Sacrificial Pact Jeraxxus turn 1 if your opponent plays it.

[qmech]

Kripp had some bad times against Miracle decks last night.  On his last game of the stream his opponent opened Chromaggus, PW Shield, PW Shield / Velen's, Faceless, PW Shield...

[popsofctown]

Did anyone try a deck of nothing but 5 drops? seems like it would be a good way to use mana efficiently.

[markusin]

Did anyone try a deck of nothing but 5 drops? seems like it would be a good way to use mana efficiently.

Not all 5 drops, but I played it as Druid who has some of the best 5 drops, along with Loatheb, Stalagg + Feugen, and some other stuff I guess

[Watno]

Were back to the first Brawl. I really hope this isnt intended.

[markusin]

Were back to the first Brawl. I really hope this isnt intended.

I took a look at the scenic underbelly of Hearthstone that is the official forum, and there's a chance there was an error somewhere. The news feed has talk of "too many portals", perhaps suggesting that this was supposed to be an Unstable Portal Brawl.

Edit: Try on mobile if you can. There are claims it's supposed to be 30 Unstable Portals. A predictable Brawl idea sure, but no reason not to do it.

[Jorbles]

Yeah, it's apparently a bug, but if you do the bugged Brawl you can get a free deck this week.

[Watno]

Îts fixed now, didn't give an additional pack though

[Galzria]

Yeah, it's apparently a bug, but if you do the bugged Brawl you can get a free deck this week.

Îts fixed now, didn't give an additional pack though

Mine is still on BRM.

[Watno]

you need to restart to client to get the update I think.

[markusin]

you need to restart to client to get the update I think.

I played a game of Nef vs. Rag, and only now that I closed the game and restarted it is the game updating. I was lucky to get Nefarian so naturally I won and now won't be demoralized if I have a big losing streak for the real Brawl.

Edit: I won my first Unstable Portal game with a real Jackpot of a card for this format, Troggzor.

[AHoppy]

I'm really enjoying today's brawl.  I forget what died, but whatever it was it turned into Baron Rivendare.  It was hilarious.

[werothegreat]

I'm really enjoying today's brawl.  I forget what died, but whatever it was it turned into Baron Rivendare.  It was hilarious.

Really?  I honestly found it kind of boring.  My first thought was to go for higher-cost minions, but I ended up playing against a normally constructed deck and lost.  So I just built a normal Mage deck with only a few minions.  The shtick of the brawl didn't come up very much.

[KingZog3]

It's ok. Feel similar kind of to the summoner brawl.

[AHoppy]

I'm playing high cost minions, minions with battlecries (like bomb lobber) and sticky guys that become even more sticky (shredder, harvest golem, etc).  2 stormwind champions help a lot because you always have a board.  Undertaker is also kinda cute.

[markusin]

I'm playing high cost minions, minions with battlecries (like bomb lobber) and sticky guys that become even more sticky (shredder, harvest golem, etc).  2 stormwind champions help a lot because you always have a board.  Undertaker is also kinda cute.

Also be sure to whip out those Sea Giants.

[Awaclus]

I played a Mage deck with a lot of silences, those Taunt +1/+1 for each enemy Deathrattle minions, Undertakers, Baron Rivendare, Polymorph and a bunch of cards that had other Deathrattles and Unstable Portals which actually sucked because their minion doesn't have the Deathrattle but I won the game where I realized that.

[AHoppy]

I'm playing high cost minions, minions with battlecries (like bomb lobber) and sticky guys that become even more sticky (shredder, harvest golem, etc).  2 stormwind champions help a lot because you always have a board.  Undertaker is also kinda cute.

Also be sure to whip out those Sea Giants.

If only I had any...

[popsofctown]

If you play a cost reduced minion like one from Unstable Portal or Sea Giant, it needs to cost at least 2 to get the deathrattle, but when the deathrattle triggers you will get a minion with a cost based on the minion's in-play cost. 

So draw 5 drops with skill-portal, trade minions until Sea Giant costs 2, play Volcanic Drake before it costs 1, etc.

[KingZog3]

Are the already recycling Tavern Brawls? It hasn't even been 10 weeks yet and they've already run out of ideas?

[werothegreat]

Are the already recycling Tavern Brawls? It hasn't even been 10 weeks yet and they've already run out of ideas?

I liked it.  Played Mage with a deck full of spells.  Won fairly easily.  Never got to get my Pryoblast Deathwing, though. 

[popsofctown]

Are the already recycling Tavern Brawls? It hasn't even been 10 weeks yet and they've already run out of ideas?

The tavern brawl design space seems limited, especially for Tavern Brawls that require less work than the Rag vs. Nef fight.  They are probably conserving design space for later.

It still seems like a mistake, this brawl was just a couple weeks ago and a few people will remember the deck they used and just wipe the floor with people.  Bob newplayer who started playing Hearthstone a week ago will be frustrated if it takes him 10 games to get his pack.  Custom deck tavern brawls should have a longer cycle, in fact I'd say the custom deck tavern brawls should each appear once per expansion.  Bringing back a precon brawl would have been smarter.  Like the webspinners one, maybe even let the webspinners preview the new beasts from the next set.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
They really need to make it so there is some tavern brawl available at all times because there is a portion of the playerbase that probably would like to just veg and play them all the time.  Might even be a good idea to have a preconstructed tavern brawl available at all times, even (so there would have to be 2 at a time at least sometimes for that.

[Haddock]

I'm kind of amazed that they're repeating brawls before even doing something as obvious as changing deck size.
Letting people build a 60 card deck with up to 3 copies of things, or limiting it to a 15 card game both seem like such obvious things to try.  Impossible to balance, but that's the point.

[popsofctown]

I'm kind of amazed that they're repeating brawls before even doing something as obvious as changing deck size.
Letting people build a 60 card deck with up to 3 copies of things, or limiting it to a 15 card game both seem like such obvious things to try.  Impossible to balance, but that's the point.

If they made the wrong kind of coding style choices, that could be unexpectedly difficult to do.

I also suspect they might avoid tavern brawls that could accidentally identify flaws in what they have set up, or question status quo too much.  No one is going to get a Giant Banana after their Leper Gnome dies and feel they've raised a question about whether ranked ladder would be a better, more strategic game with Giant Bananas, but deck size changes can raise that question.  Indeed, the probability that 28 or 32 cards is superior to 30 for Hearthstone overall approaches 100%.

If they mess with deck sizes, I imagine they will do something like "You have an 8 card deck, go", where it's obviously not a better format, rather than something like a 60 card deck, which could have serious risk of being funner.  Some of THE MOST POPULAR magic the gathering variants are ones that increase the deck size, and restrict the number of multiples per deck, which is similar to increased deck size (100 card highlander, and its descendant elder dragon highlander, which evolved into duelcommander and sees lots of serious tournament play in France.  Tiny Leaders is another elder dragon highlander descendant that spun off a few tournaments)

[Haddock]

I'm kind of amazed that they're repeating brawls before even doing something as obvious as changing deck size.
Letting people build a 60 card deck with up to 3 copies of things, or limiting it to a 15 card game both seem like such obvious things to try.  Impossible to balance, but that's the point.

If they made the wrong kind of coding style choices, that could be unexpectedly difficult to do.

I can quite imagine it; don't know enough about Blizzard's development style to know whether they would keep a clean code-base, but you'd hope it would be clean enough to make it a feasible option.  Then again you look at how some of the card interactions don't make intuitive sense and you realise the code must certainly contain a decent amount of bodging.

Indeed, the probability that 28 or 32 cards is superior to 30 for Hearthstone overall approaches 100%.

If they mess with deck sizes, I imagine they will do something like "You have an 8 card deck, go", where it's obviously not a better format, rather than something like a 60 card deck, which could have serious risk of being funner.  Some of THE MOST POPULAR magic the gathering variants are ones that increase the deck size, and restrict the number of multiples per deck, which is similar to increased deck size (100 card highlander, and its descendant elder dragon highlander, which evolved into duelcommander and sees lots of serious tournament play in France.  Tiny Leaders is another elder dragon highlander descendant that spun off a few tournaments)

This is kinda why I suggest it.  Surely one point of the brawl as an idea is to let Blizzard try out some crazy mechanics and see which work or are interesting.  It would be great if one of the brawls was good enough to be worth refining into a whole new game format, wouldn't it?

[KingZog3]

Yeah I see no reason why they wouldn't try things to find out if people like it more. That's really only beneficial for them. Sure they need to spend time to code it up, but then people play more. That's what they want. You sound you think it's a conspiracy that they don't want to use brawl to make people have more fun.

[popsofctown]

Yes, I will make my tinfoil hat explicit and say that I think Blizzard conspires to keep the game dumbed down and avoid depth and growth.  I sure hope I'm wrong.  But there's little signs now and then.  The way the ranking system heavily discourages actually getting better at the game: You can climb to 10 consistently every month with a 40% win rate due to win streak system if you just play play play, and then the screen will inform you that you are a very special snowflake.  The way Arena has been repeatedly marginalized and now they are trying to make sure it is no longer the best way to collect new cards, that's because limited formats historically have rewarded skill far more than constructed formats, so Arena was a tool to attract skilled card gaming veterans to bring enthusiasm and steam and stream early on, and now has served its purposes and needs to be phased out.  The way draw power consistently gets nerfed and Gnomish Experimenter and let us know that if you try to increase the skill intensity of the game by increasing the number of cards in your hand you can choose from, you had better let us luck tax you to keep that in check, I can wait and fish all day man.

It's all about keeping the game approachable.  Part of what makes the game lucrative is the ability to play it and not feel like you are bad at it.  If they add too much strategy, it will be possible to be good at it, and therefore possible to be bad it.  You will not spend money on the game if you feel that you are bad at it.  This stuff is very important. 

[werothegreat]

I like that they're repeating things.  It gives people a chance to try them who weren't playing the first time around.

[popsofctown]

Anyone wanna mirror Lorewalker Cho and Gangups and see if the game can handle a 60 card deck as-is?  Maybe they did go ahead and handle that part of it when they added gangup or Malorne. (there'd still be the initialization question)

[markusin]

I'd say it's more that Blizzard is getting carried away with making the game casual. Deck building is normally supposed to be really difficult, but Blizzard makes it kind of easy with combo's generally being weaker than pure "value" cards. The want it to be easy. I think it's good that there's no reliable 1st turn win strategies like in other CCGs, but the card interactions are not strong enough to consistently be better than "lol just put Shredder and Dr. Boom in your deck and get to rank 10". It's telling that in the few instances where a strong combo deck emerges, barely anything competes and the combo deck gets nerfed. It happened with Miracle Rogue, and now we have a legitimate combo deck with Grim Patron and nothing competes well against it because no one else has access to combos with that consistency.

It looks like Blizzard would rather have zero Grim Patron strong decks than like ten such decks competing against each other, the latter being what you'd expect from M:tG or something.

[markusin]

Anyone wanna mirror Lorewalker Cho and Gangups and see if the game can handle a 60 card deck as-is?  Maybe they did go ahead and handle that part of it when they added gangup or Malorne. (there'd still be the initialization question)

I don't have much time for that this weekend.

[werothegreat]

This is why Mage is, and will remain, the best class: one Flamestrike destroys a gang of Patrons.

[popsofctown]

I think it's good that there's no reliable 1st turn win strategies like in other CCGs, but the card interactions are not strong enough to consistently be better than "lol just put Shredder and Dr. Boom in your deck and get to rank 10". It's telling that in the few instances where a strong combo deck emerges, barely anything competes and the combo deck gets nerfed. It happened with Miracle Rogue, and now we have a legitimate combo deck with Grim Patron and nothing competes well against it because no one else has access to combos with that consistency.

1st thing, almost no CCGs provide 1st turn win strategies.  The only formats of Magic the Gathering that provide first turn win strategies are Legacy and Vintage, and those formats are very marginalized and minimally supported.  Magic also cracks down a little heavier on turn 4 wins and turn 5 wins seemingly every year.  The designers are very much against 1st turn wins.  If I attended every sanctioned magic event in a 25 mile radius this year, I would lose to 0 1st turn wins and 1,170 wins that happened turn 2 or later.  Most other CCGs, every CCG I've come into contact with, also doesn't allow for 1st turn wins.  (I think Netrunner allows 1st turn losses, lol, but that doesn't count).  Hearthstone is not treading new ground by restricting fast instakill combos, that's very much a part of every CCG designer's philosophy now and has been for a while.

2nd thing, it's very untrue that "barely anything competes with the combo deck".  Leeroy Rogue drew so much hate from the meta that it had to reinvent itself as Malygos Rogue, and then THAT got so much hate that all Gadgetzan Rogue quickly became third or fourth best to play. 
Right now, Handlock already has a better OTK than Grim Patron OTK, Arcane Golem-PO-PO-Faceless.  And handlock unarguably has more reliable draw power.  So it's an oversimplification to say that whatever deck has the best OTK at any point in time is the best deck and to an extent that no other deck can compete, the other characteristics of the deck clearly matter.  Warrior just does a really good job of staying alive right now, and combo is just a better wincon than control finishers right now with Ragnaros shooting implosion tokens, Sylvanas stealing Silver Hand Recruits, and the class legendary offering an inferior version of the same strategy. 

[markusin]

I think it's good that there's no reliable 1st turn win strategies like in other CCGs, but the card interactions are not strong enough to consistently be better than "lol just put Shredder and Dr. Boom in your deck and get to rank 10". It's telling that in the few instances where a strong combo deck emerges, barely anything competes and the combo deck gets nerfed. It happened with Miracle Rogue, and now we have a legitimate combo deck with Grim Patron and nothing competes well against it because no one else has access to combos with that consistency.

1st thing, almost no CCGs provide 1st turn win strategies.  The only formats of Magic the Gathering that provide first turn win strategies are Legacy and Vintage, and those formats are very marginalized and minimally supported.  Magic also cracks down a little heavier on turn 4 wins and turn 5 wins seemingly every year.  The designers are very much against 1st turn wins.  If I attended every sanctioned magic event in a 25 mile radius this year, I would lose to 0 1st turn wins and 1,170 wins that happened turn 2 or later.  Most other CCGs, every CCG I've come into contact with, also doesn't allow for 1st turn wins.  (I think Netrunner allows 1st turn losses, lol, but that doesn't count).  Hearthstone is not treading new ground by restricting fast instakill combos, that's very much a part of every CCG designer's philosophy now and has been for a while.

2nd thing, it's very untrue that "barely anything competes with the combo deck".  Leeroy Rogue drew so much hate from the meta that it had to reinvent itself as Malygos Rogue, and then THAT got so much hate that all Gadgetzan Rogue quickly became third or fourth best to play. 
Right now, Handlock already has a better OTK than Grim Patron OTK, Arcane Golem-PO-PO-Faceless.  And handlock unarguably has more reliable draw power.  So it's an oversimplification to say that whatever deck has the best OTK at any point in time is the best deck and to an extent that no other deck can compete, the other characteristics of the deck clearly matter.  Warrior just does a really good job of staying alive right now, and combo is just a better wincon than control finishers right now with Ragnaros shooting implosion tokens, Sylvanas stealing Silver Hand Recruits, and the class legendary offering an inferior version of the same strategy.

I know that 1st turn kills aren't the norm now (or even exist) in M:tG, but there was a time, in legacy as you say, where it was possible. I also think it's possible in Yu-gi-oh, but that game is messed up anyway.

When I say combo deck, I mean the deck as a whole that happens to contain a combo. The OTK condition itself doesn't make the combo deck powerful, but how easy it is to set it up without dying. Grim Patron happens to be very good at that, but not to the extent that it can always stop heavy aggro or Handlock.

It seems to me that the community in Hearthstone is very vocal about its dislike for anything "unfair" like Handlock or Miracle Rogue or Face Hunter or whatever, when in reality the unfairness is necessary for a competitive deck. I guess Blizzard knows better than to liberally nerf cards and break every "owerpowered" deck whenever they pop up.

The way I see it, the decision to mostly leave powerful decks be goes against the goal to make Hearthstone the ultimate casual game. I hope the development team recognizes that Hearthstone has potential to allow a very competitive and hardcore/serious player base to flourish. If they do, then I think they shouldn't neglect formats like draft Arena in favor of a one-size-fits-all constructed mode or something.

[popsofctown]

I do appreciate that development always is open about the fact they are nerfing something that isn't broken.

Freeze mage was another thing they nerfed that wasn't broken, which wasn't a combo deck at all.  It was a confusing nerf, since Freeze Mage still exists, just weaker, whereas the OTK nerfs are always so dramatic that the thing that was decided to be unfun is excised entirely.

I think if they actually just changed it to where you have to click on your minions to make them shake off the ice as their action for the turn, that people would psychologically feel less locked out of playing Hearthstone and they wouldn't have needed to nerf it at all.
(also, that idea made me realize that the tooltip for Freeze vs. Windfury seems contradictory, you should get 1 attack).

[Jorbles]

I think if they actually just changed it to where you have to click on your minions to make them shake off the ice as their action for the turn, that people would psychologically feel less locked out of playing Hearthstone and they wouldn't have needed to nerf it at all.
(also, that idea made me realize that the tooltip for Freeze vs. Windfury seems contradictory, you should get 1 attack).

This would just make people salty that now they have to click it and they forgot to once and they used to not have to click it! zomg!

If they'd made freeze work that way from the start it'd be fine, but if they changed it to work that way now people would "riot".

[qmech]

This is why Mage is, and will remain, the best class: one Flamestrike destroys a gang of Patrons.

Flamestrike is a funny card.  It's undoubtedly powerful, but with so much aggro on ladder you need to be really defensive to play it.  So it's only really played in Freeze or offbeat control variants.

pops, does Flamestrike give your Patrons any trouble?

[popsofctown]

I played my last 5 ladder games using a mage with flamestrike after 50 consecutive patron warrior games... so you tell me.

Yeah, Flamestrike can wreck a patron warrior.  You can't really run cards that accomplish anything against hypathetical flamestrikes, you're all 4 health minions.  If the mage uses all their cards as removal (even Fireball on a small creature, if necessary!) and then flamestrikes any board that requires a big answer, the mage can literally get a kill off fatigue without even attacking with minions.  It's frustrating.  I threw Ysera, then Sneed's (better) because I was frustrated by attrition from Mage and Priest, but those cards are off course bad against other classes and not actually what I should be doing, I should be sucking up the losses.  (an aggro-as-all-hell zoo pulled PO sylvanas out of nowhere on my sneed's, FML..)

[EgorK]

Brawl is really one-sided in Medivh favor unfortunately

[popsofctown]

Hunters don't synergize with the set's control mechanic enough to crush Medivh?  No waaaaaay

[markusin]

Brawl is really one-sided in Medivh favor unfortunately

Not all that surprising. I was more excited about playing with Hunter for this Brawl because we kind of already know what Inspire Mage is all about after it was featured on stream a couple of times. Joust decks haven't been featured yet.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I feel like if a joust deck ends up being a thing, it won't be Hunter.

[markusin]

Brawl is really one-sided in Medivh favor unfortunately

Not all that surprising. I was more excited about playing with Hunter for this Brawl because we kind of already know what Inspire Mage is all about after it was featured on stream a couple of times. Joust decks haven't been featured yet.

After having tried the Tavern Brawl myself, I feel like Hunter actually has the more potent deck.

Edit: Okay, I do feel Medivh has an edge just because it has low cost minions that make it easier for it to take initiative on the board. Why couldn't Hunter get Powershot?

[KingZog3]

Hunter has won all games I've been in so far. Lock and Load is very strong.

[Twistedarcher]

I'm having a lot of fun. Both decks seem close enough in power to me.

[markusin]

I find both deck have some neat interactions, the Mage deck more so I think. Like, Summon:Boar and Argent Horserider go well together.

[Twistedarcher]

Ok, medivh is better.

[KingZog3]

Ok, medivh is better.

Yep, I changed my mind, Medivh is better. But it's not too unbalanced.

[Galzria]

Yeah, having Dragonhawk Rider on the board and being able to Ping face, Windfury off two attacks, then Polymorph Boar for a total of 11 fatal damage at 5 mana was great. Pyro on super crack.

That's the only game I've got to play so far though. Excited to see both sides.

[blueblimp]

I was kinda expecting the decks to be unbalanced because I believe the conspiracy theory that they did the same with Rag v Nef on purpose so that even if you're bad, you can win games when you draw the good deck.

Kinda weird they chose to unbalance it in this direction though. Mage gets an OK arena-style deck, alright, we already knew Mage is good in arena. Hunter gets... total garbage. If you're going to demo control Hunter in the brawl, why not make it the stronger deck?

Edit: Dumbest thing is that they gave Hunter tons of joust cards and the deck doesn't even win that high a % of jousts. Gross.

[markusin]

I think I only won 2 legitimate games with Hunter in the brawl out of 18 or so wins.

When I attacked the hero with a 384 attack Gahzrilla (Rhonin's arcane Missiles are to thank for that), the cardboard judges showed lifted up white signs with "10" written on them. That was kinda cute.

Edit: I find the design of King's Elekk a strange one in regards to a deck making use of Joust. If the Elekk wins, you draw a high mana minion that won't have an impact for awhile and drawing it weakens your future Jousts. Elekk can also be drawn during a Joust, which sucks. It's also lame that the Hunter deck is stuck with cobra shot while the Mage deck has Flame Lance which at least counters the Hunter big drops. Master Jouster also isn't that great against Mage who as access to a pinging hero power that's inspiring minions.

Well it's interesting to see what happens when a deck doesn't include non-joust minions below 5 mana like the Hunter deck we got. Too bad the Mage deck has a bunch of high mana drops like Coldarra, Rhonin, and the Frost Giants.

[popsofctown]

blueblimp, you're answering your own question with your own post.  If they made control hunter the stronger deck, then bad players wouldn't get their wins for drawing the good deck, because control hunter is going to be a more skill heavy deck to play.  Bad players would never win at all when they alternate between losing because Medhiv is weak and losing because turn 3 Lock and Load isn't winning their control deck many games.

[markusin]

You know, there might be some potential for the control Hunter deck. Rely on King's Elekk, Mad scientist, and maybe Pyromancer as low mana minions and the rest of the low mana cards are spells, weapons, and traps. Then you have a big Lock and Load turn or two (with the help of Thaurissan) to fill your hand with stuff that would never interference with Joust. The deck just needs early game consistency and a good win condition.

Alternatively you can just try a sticky Beast Hunter deck with some of the good Hunter additions in TGT.

[popsofctown]

Lock and Load seems like the most promising strategy for control Hunter.  Fat minions nombo with Lock and Load, so I think if TGT supports a control hunter deck, it has very little Joust.  King's Ellek in multiples would only give you a ~20% chance of drawing Thaurissan, and he's the only minion that plays nice with Lock and Load.  I think you don't actually run the King's Elek, but the Scientist and potentially Pyromancer, yeah. 

Hunter still has the Feign Death Explosive sheep thing that it never uses, that's maybe decent.

[Jorbles]

I feel like if you just get L&L to combo with 2 or less spells it's probably not good enough. If you're going to run a big L&L turn you probably want a way to draw cards. Do you run Auctioneers/Buzzards/Cult Masters to try and pull that off?

[markusin]

I feel like if you just get L&L to combo with 2 or less spells it's probably not good enough. If you're going to run a big L&L turn you probably want a way to draw cards. Do you run Auctioneers/Buzzards/Cult Masters to try and pull that off?

Trouble is none of those cards stick and they cost a lot of mana to play on the same turn as L&L. Maybe Spare Parts is the answer, but Mech Hunter is currently weaker than its alternatives. I don't know if L&L can change that.

[popsofctown]

Best draw power cantidates would be Acolyte, Gnomish Experimenter, Flare, Loot Hoarder, Powershot Thalnos, Gnomish Inventor.  Remember you have the Tracking as a windmill slam autoinclude in such a deck.

Webspinner may help. Yes, it doesn't draw you a spell, but if it draws you a raptor, then you can play turn 2 raptor and preserve turn 2 quickshot in your hand, and you get to pay 3 life to proc loc and load an additional time later on, and that's a good deal.  Webspinner can fizzle into corehound of course.

Cult Master->Unleash is not necessarily bad, depends a lot on the meta.

I'm not sure exactly what the deck would look like for sure, I just see a variety of things that may work well.  Playing control in classes that don't have controlly class cards is going to become easier with Refreshment Vendor.  Half as much life as Antique Healbot, but only a 5th as much reduction from vanilla test stats.

[KingZog3]

Don't forget Power Shot. I think that'll help a bunch.

[pacovf]

Refreshment Vendor

It's becoming increasingly difficult to take this game seriously.

[popsofctown]

Flavorwise or Mechanicswise?

[pacovf]

Flavourwise! Unless you fight Refreshment Vendors in WoW or something...?

[ashersky]

Just had the dream play of the "your hero power does 2 damage" + "your hero power costs 1" + "you can play your hero power as many times as you want" with Medivh.

Then I stupidly cleared his board instead of realizing I had lethal.

(I won anyway.)

[KingZog3]

Just had the dream play of the "your hero power does 2 damage" + "your hero power costs 1" + "you can play your hero power as many times as you want" with Medivh.

Then I stupidly cleared his board instead of realizing I had lethal.

(I won anyway.)

You had this at 10 mana?

[ashersky]

Just had the dream play of the "your hero power does 2 damage" + "your hero power costs 1" + "you can play your hero power as many times as you want" with Medivh.

Then I stupidly cleared his board instead of realizing I had lethal.

(I won anyway.)

You had this at 10 mana?

I played Coldarra Drake at 10 mana, had 4 left over to do 8 damage with hero power.  My opponent then played Acidmaw + Unleash to clear my board.

[werothegreat]

This current Tavern Brawl... I got a Mage deck... with no spells.

WHAT THE FUCK

[markusin]

This current Tavern Brawl... I got a Mage deck... with no spells.

WHAT THE FUCK

Still a decent Brawl for completing quests for classes you don't normally play. For me that would be Warrior, Druid, and Rogue.

[popsofctown]

Bold claim: Encounter at the crossroads would be a better ranked ladder format than the real ranked ladder (in terms of better players winning more consistently)

[markusin]

Bold claim: Encounter at the crossroads would be a better ranked ladder format than the real ranked ladder (in terms of better players winning more consistently)

It's true that it tests skills that aren't normally flexed in constructed. In particular, in this Brawl and Arena you have to quest for value without knowing over 80% of your opponent's deck.

[KingZog3]

I got the stealing hero power card and it didn't work. I used my hero power, and then tried to copy but it didn't copy anything. They had also used their power on their turn. WTF? Is that a bug or is the card even worse because you can't use your power on the same turn?

[popsofctown]

I got the stealing hero power card and it didn't work. I used my hero power, and then tried to copy but it didn't copy anything. They had also used their power on their turn. WTF? Is that a bug or is the card even worse because you can't use your power on the same turn?

That would definitely be inconsistent with Shadowform.  I got Nexus Champion Saraad in an arena run and managed to pull off hero power->shadowform-> heropower for two draws, heh.

(then he sucked the rest of the run by grabbing me Innvervate, Preparation, and Ancestral call even though he was my deck's card advantage engine by design..)

[KingZog3]

What I mean is that it didn't even copy. I still had summon a totem as my hero power afer, not the priest one.

[Jorbles]

What I mean is that it didn't even copy. I still had summon a totem as my hero power afer, not the priest one.

It's apparently a bug. Might be related just to the current Brawl. They are quote "looking into it".

[popsofctown]

I think they should have just given it the Alexstraza treatment for bosses instead of disabling on a mode by mode basis.

[markusin]

I think they should have just given it the Alexstraza treatment for bosses instead of disabling on a mode by mode basis.

Maybe they didn't want to have the card to just blow up on play in non-heroic mode for whatever reason (it doesn't fit with how they've handled non-heroic adventure bosses so far) while not wanting players to copy hero powers even in non-heroic mode.

[ashersky]

I got two of the new warrior legendary in my warrior deck...a thaurrisan later and I played them on T9 and T10.  I drew a nerubian egg, war golem, new kraken, warsong commander, grim patron, and darnassas aspirant.

My opponent resigned.

[popsofctown]

I think they should have just given it the Alexstraza treatment for bosses instead of disabling on a mode by mode basis.

Maybe they didn't want to have the card to just blow up on play in non-heroic mode for whatever reason (it doesn't fit with how they've handled non-heroic adventure bosses so far) while not wanting to write the code necessary to enable players to copy hero powers even in non-heroic modes of past adventures that they are no longer generating much new revenue on.

Here, I helped you out.

[KingZog3]

I got 4 Varyan Wrynn's. I played 3 of them. My opponent had 3 Tirions. It's was crazy.

[AHoppy]

I got 2 mistcallers.  It was fantastic.

[Awaclus]

I got a Nozdormu and I won the game because of how poorly my opponent played his next turn.

[markusin]

I think they should have just given it the Alexstraza treatment for bosses instead of disabling on a mode by mode basis.

Maybe they didn't want to have the card to just blow up on play in non-heroic mode for whatever reason (it doesn't fit with how they've handled non-heroic adventure bosses so far) while not wanting to write the code necessary to enable players to copy hero powers even in non-heroic modes of past adventures that they are no longer generating much new revenue on.

Here, I helped you out.

Thanks, though experience has shown that them writing extra code tends to mess things up in odd ways you'd never expect. 

[Grujah]

Best part of the brawl: Opened Grommash in my prize booster.
Worst part of the brawl: It's my third Grommash.

[markusin]

Today I learned that Patient Assassin isn't a neutral minion, but rather a Rogue class minion.

[Watno]

This brawl is such a waste. They could have at least made people only get TGT cards, or biased heavily towards them.

[Watno]

Apparently they announced a different Brawl on Facebook, but deleted that message to hide that they fucked up again.

[markusin]

Apparently they announced a different Brawl on Facebook, but deleted that message to hide that they fucked up again.

Wh...why would they do that? Surely someone would have noticed the message before they delete it, making them look even worse after the messup. That's exactly what happened now assuming you are correct.

[Watno]

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3ih2nz/new_brawl_encounter_at_the_crossroads/cugbv6b

No idea why they're doing it.

[ycz6]

Apparently they announced a different Brawl on Facebook, but deleted that message to hide that they fucked up again.

...or they deleted the message because it was wrong?

[markusin]

Apparently they announced a different Brawl on Facebook, but deleted that message to hide that they fucked up again.

...or they deleted the message because it was wrong?

It could be that the Brawl they were hoping to have (Underdog Brawl) was bugged and so they went back to the Crossroads Brawl, but not everyone got the memo.

[theright555J]

I'm a hearthstone n00b and gotta say it feels good to be 5-1 in this week's Brawl...maybe I can actually play this game halfway decent if I have cards to use? 

[werothegreat]

I'm a hearthstone n00b and gotta say it feels good to be 5-1 in this week's Brawl...maybe I can actually play this game halfway decent if I have cards to use? 

Having good cards definitely helps.  I think Rogue was really shafted in this brawl, because the class really depends on its cheaper spells to set off its combos, but since the cards were determined randomly, you weren't necessarily guaranteed those.

[markusin]

I'm a hearthstone n00b and gotta say it feels good to be 5-1 in this week's Brawl...maybe I can actually play this game halfway decent if I have cards to use? 

Having good cards definitely helps.  I think Rogue was really shafted in this brawl, because the class really depends on its cheaper spells to set off its combos, but since the cards were determined randomly, you weren't necessarily guaranteed those.

Not so sure about about that. I went 5-0 with Rogue in my first 5 games. Most classes are denied their big combos in this format, so it all depends on how the cards hold up individually and the strength of the hero power. Rogue has a good hero power for this format and a bunch of tempo-oriented cards. Most of the weapon synergy cards like Goblin Autobarber and Buccaneer are good value. Yeah it's a bit harder to take advantage of combo cards like SI7 and Defias Ringleader, but that just means you play other low drops first and those combo cards later on, like on Turn 5 or later.

[Grujah]

IMHO, this brawl is total randomfest and doesn't deserve play after you get your booster.

[markusin]

IMHO, this brawl is total randomfest and doesn't deserve play after you get your booster.

Or the 5 Tavern Brawl win quest. Actually I also used it for a 5 Rogue or Warrior win quest. I don't generally play those classes in constructed.

[Drab Emordnilap]

IMHO, this brawl is total randomfest and doesn't deserve play after you get your booster.

The randomfest ones are my favorites; they make it easy to do quests (and by easy, I mean less mental effort).

[ashersky]

Anyone like the new brawl?  Kinda poopy.

[Grujah]

Brawl today:
Druid vs Druid
T1: pass
T1: coin + Wild Growth
T2: Hero power
T2: Hero power
T3: Hero power
T3: Emperor
T4: Swipe + Hero power
T4: AoL, Innervate, Belcher
T5: Concede.
Got my pack, moving on.

[KingZog3]

I'm not sure why they don't start putting brawls that restrict cards you can build with. They may be harder for new players, but they would be super interesting.

[markusin]

I'm not sure why they don't start putting brawls that restrict cards you can build with. They may be harder for new players, but they would be super interesting.

Probably because they don't want to overwork themselves with code, though the coding effort to implement such a thing might not be so large after all depending on the state of their codebase.

[chairs]

double deathrattle was hilarious - I played priest and had I think 24 cards in deck before I had a card that didn't have "Deathrattle" or "Silence" on it.

[Haddock]

I'm not sure why they don't start putting brawls that restrict cards you can build with. They may be harder for new players, but they would be super interesting.

You could make it not-harder-for new players just by having a Basic Brawl where everyone is forced to make a deck with the basic cards.  Just like old times!  It would be fun to see cards like Shattered Sun Cleric being used in `constructed' again.

[ashersky]

I'm not sure why they don't start putting brawls that restrict cards you can build with. They may be harder for new players, but they would be super interesting.

You could make it not-harder-for new players just by having a Basic Brawl where everyone is forced to make a deck with the basic cards.  Just like old times!  It would be fun to see cards like Shattered Sun Cleric being used in `constructed' again.

I've been running into the Goldshire Footman 1/2 Taunt guy a lot lately.  Did I miss a memo somewhere?

[Haddock]

I'm not sure why they don't start putting brawls that restrict cards you can build with. They may be harder for new players, but they would be super interesting.

You could make it not-harder-for new players just by having a Basic Brawl where everyone is forced to make a deck with the basic cards.  Just like old times!  It would be fun to see cards like Shattered Sun Cleric being used in `constructed' again.

I've been running into the Goldshire Footman 1/2 Taunt guy a lot lately.  Did I miss a memo somewhere?

I haven't managed to play much for the last week, but yeah that's massively surprising to me.  Really weird.  What rank are you playing at?

[ashersky]

I'm not sure why they don't start putting brawls that restrict cards you can build with. They may be harder for new players, but they would be super interesting.

You could make it not-harder-for new players just by having a Basic Brawl where everyone is forced to make a deck with the basic cards.  Just like old times!  It would be fun to see cards like Shattered Sun Cleric being used in `constructed' again.

I've been running into the Goldshire Footman 1/2 Taunt guy a lot lately.  Did I miss a memo somewhere?

I haven't managed to play much for the last week, but yeah that's massively surprising to me.  Really weird.  What rank are you playing at?

This is mid-teens (14-16).

[qmech]

No obvious synergies?  Hobgoblin or Bolster?

[ashersky]

No obvious synergies?  Hobgoblin or Bolster?

It's been Paladins.  Thing is, dropping it on T1 means I remove it with basically anything.  Not sure what the plan is.  Maybe it's newer players?

[popsofctown]

Forced Avenge proc.  It doesn't seem like a terrible card for Divine Favor Secret Paladin.  The deck feels like it could use another 1 drop, and what would be better.  Argent Squire?  In an environment of fighting against Muster Tokens, Goldshire Footman has the same health.  Chow? You're too aggro.  Abusive Sarge? You're already running 2.  Leper Gnome?  Your deck seeks to have board control all the way into the kill and has no damage that shoots over taunt, so it doesn't make much sense to sacrifice possible board control for the life total snipe.  You can't win without board control like hunter.

I might try it.

[ycz6]

Is Worgen Infiltrator already in that deck?

[popsofctown]

It's not, and it shouldn't be.  Worgen Infiltrator is a bad Leper Gnome.  It's a deck where you always have targets to hit, so giving one of your targets stealth is useless (since it's not inherently a high priority target a la Patient Assassin.

I would run Young Priestess or Tournament Attendee over Worgen Infiltrator in that deck.

Infiltrator has some synergy with Blessing of Kings, I guess, but I don't believe Blessing of Kings should be used in Divine Favor builds.

[Grujah]

I'd play Argent Squire over it anyday, anytime. Esp if you want board control and you said you want it. And have anything that remotely synergizes like Sarges.

[KingZog3]

I see the argument for Goldshirefootman. If you do run Blessing of Kings, Argent Squire beats it for sure. As a proc for avenge, I dont see it though, since control decks will be fighting for board anyway, and will most likely trigger it regardless of Taunt or not.

[popsofctown]

Hybrid hunter very often needs convincing to proc your avenge, though.

[ashersky]

Did anyone else have any trouble with the Underdog thing?

It took me forever to win once.  Did it with the old Divine Spirit + Divine Spirit + Inner Fire combo OTK Priest.

[pingpongsam]

No problems at all with Warlock. Issue is I use Brawls to get dailies for the odd classes and I am struggling hard there. Some success with freeze mage.

[popsofctown]

If you're not going to take the coward's way out and play Warlock, don't compain!

[qmech]

I took the chance to play my Malylock.  I saw mostly Zoolock and Oil Rogue, with Mill Rogue and an offbeat Freeze Mage also making an appearance.  Malylock is great because your opponent sometimes gets carried away with hitting themself and leaves an opening for an early blast of burn cards.

[markusin]

I went ahead and played Mech Rogue, beating a Zoolock player in my first game. Rogue'a Hero Power weapon lets them take damage to prevent the other player from getting the benefit of extra minions until you're really pushing for lethal. In the game I won, the only extra minion that was summoned was a Mana Tide Totem for my opponent the turn before I won.

[ashersky]

I tried some slow decks (ramp, control warrior) but they fell flat to zoo over and over.  Then I tried face warrior, but kept losing to handlock.

In the end, I decided to go OTK because it seemed like the best way to ensure a win.

[ashersky]

I also got the "win 5 brawls" quest

[Awaclus]

Mill Druid is hilarious in this TB. Most of the opponents are Warlocks who will draw half of their deck with their hero power anyway, and the TB rule works pretty nicely for a super slow deck like that.

[Haddock]

Hehe nice hard counter to the brawl meta there awa. I was gonna say, handlock and variants are just so strong.

[markusin]

Hehe nice hard counter to the brawl meta there awa. I was gonna say, handlock and variants are just so strong.

Actually I was having trouble against Freeze Mage. They just don't try to damage you until they go for the kill.

[ycz6]

I was in the audience for the Twitchcon Tavern Brawl exhibition match between Emmett Shear (Twitch CEO) and Mike Morhaime (Blizzard CEO), which you can find here: http://www.twitch.tv/twitch/v/17933140?t=14m28s

Both players actually took the match really seriously, and there ended up being some insane plays, like silencing of the opponent's Zombie Chow, trading two 4/8 Twilight Drakes into a Mountain Giant instead of playing BGH two turns earlier, not attacking with 12 free face damage... it was actually really fun to watch.

[Titandrake]

Both players actually took the match really seriously, and there ended up being some insane plays, like silencing of the opponent's Zombie Chow, trading two 4/8 Twilight Drakes into a Mountain Giant instead of playing BGH two turns earlier, not attacking with 12 free face damage... it was actually really fun to watch.

This sounds like Twitch CEO plays Hearthstone.

Edit: forgot this was for the Brawl. Those plays sound more reasonable now.

[chairs]

This TB, I ran a Paladin "aggro" deck with knife juggler, a stupid amount of 1-2-3 drops (especially ones that summoned friends - echoing ooze etc), with ke'thuzad and ragnaros in for finishers if need be. I basically kept the board fairly clean, getting my opponent (a priest) to burn silences/etc, and then dropped knife juggler + echoing ooze + gnomish engineer + paladin hero power all one turn with the priest's board clear. He got a free minion but wasn't able to find a solution to my knife juggler, i wipe his minion and dump my hand to the board again, he answers my knife juggler but now I have lethal and he's out of fuel.

[KingZog3]

This brawl seems fun. Not sure which deck is better, since I wooped ass with both.

[Drab Emordnilap]

HELLO HELLO HELLO HELLO

[KingZog3]

HELLO HELLO HELLO HELLO

The hero power is way better for value. I think my opponents were just not competent.

[markusin]

Yeah this Tavern Brawl is pretty neat even though it lacks the epicness of Nef vs. Rag. It feels like you're actually playing a game of Hearthstone but with a better hero power. Bolster is actually pretty neat if you play as Annoy-o-tron. The theme within the cards is there too.

[werothegreat]

I think Boombot is better, honestly.  His power is the perfect counter to all the Divine Shielding.

Also, why are both decks running Gahz'rilla?

[Awaclus]

This brawl seems fun. Not sure which deck is better, since I wooped ass with both.

I crushed my opponent as Annoy-o-Tron and got crushed as Boom Bot, and both times I felt like the biggest reason was that Annoy-o-Tron's cards were constantly better in general and had more synergy with each other and the hero power than Boom Bot's. No huge differences, but small bits of extra value add up when they're everywhere. Perhaps the Annoy-o-Tron deck just had better draws in both games by coincidence, but it really felt like it just simply was the better deck to me.

[Titandrake]

My first win was with Boom Bot. My impression is that Boom Bot has much better removal + reach and wins on tempo, while Annoy-o-Tron wins if you give it any slight board advantage.

I lost as Annoy-o-tron when I got aggroed down, then lost as Boom Bot when Annoy-o-tron got out a 2/6 taunted Iron Sensei buffing a Repair Bot, then won as Boom Bot with an aggressive start that got my opponent down low enough to win through reach.

[KingZog3]

I think Boombot is better, honestly.  His power is the perfect counter to all the Divine Shielding.

Also, why are both decks running Gahz'rilla?

I haven't seen a single gahzrilla. Boom Bot has Dr. Boom. Annoyotron has Blingtron and Thermaplugg. I'm sure Boom Bot has another legend I'm forgetting. I don't think there's any change in the decks, since I've seen consistent Bouncing Blades and Crush in Boom Bot, Bolster and Recycle and Tinker's Oil in Annoyotron.

[werothegreat]

I think Boombot is better, honestly.  His power is the perfect counter to all the Divine Shielding.

Also, why are both decks running Gahz'rilla?

I haven't seen a single gahzrilla. Boom Bot has Dr. Boom. Annoyotron has Blingtron and Thermaplugg. I'm sure Boom Bot has another legend I'm forgetting. I don't think there's any change in the decks, since I've seen consistent Bouncing Blades and Crush in Boom Bot, Bolster and Recycle and Tinker's Oil in Annoyotron.

I had a Gahz'rilla in hand, then a joust revealed another Gahz'rilla in my deck.

[chairs]

My first win was with Boom Bot. My impression is that Boom Bot has much better removal + reach and wins on tempo, while Annoy-o-Tron wins if you give it any slight board advantage.

I lost as Annoy-o-tron when I got aggroed down, then lost as Boom Bot when Annoy-o-tron got out a 2/6 taunted Iron Sensei buffing a Repair Bot, then won as Boom Bot with an aggressive start that got my opponent down low enough to win through reach.

This is similar to my experience, except my win was with Annoy-o-tron where I managed to get board advantage fairly early and just consistently put out Good Stuff.

[sitnaltax]

If Annoy-o-Tron manages to stick a high-attack minion, it becomes nasty because it can use its hero power and trade the Divine Shield against whatever Boom Bot summons. It feels oppressive to play against. I think Boom Bot's cards are overall better (Dr. Boom vs. Blingtron!), but being able to shield is so powerful that AoT ends up the stronger choice anyway.

[popsofctown]

choice

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.

[chairs]

If Annoy-o-Tron manages to stick a high-attack minion, it becomes nasty because it can use its hero power and trade the Divine Shield against whatever Boom Bot summons. It feels oppressive to play against. I think Boom Bot's cards are overall better (Dr. Boom vs. Blingtron!), but being able to shield is so powerful that AoT ends up the stronger choice anyway.

You got a choice?

[popsofctown]

The new Tavern Brawl has you draw a one drop, then a two drop, then a three drop, etc.

There are some broken possibilities here, but I'm not sure what's best.

I saw a vid of Rockbiter-Rockbiter-Mana Addict-Windfury but there's gotta be stuff even better.

I guess if you're confident the game won't go to turn 11, you can run any number of 0, 1, and 2 drops without worrying about drawing them turn 9 or 10 when you don't want them.  They'll only be in your opening hand.  But you won't have mana to play them because you're curving out perfectly?  Huh.

[Jorbles]

A friend of mine has been running Loot Horder, Acolyte, Astral Communion. (I've heard some people say Doomsayer is a better 2 drop to stall more.)

[popsofctown]

Oh my.  That's marvelous!

[popsofctown]

Could Ancestral Call work? Hm.  Probably not as well

[ycz6]

Could Ancestral Call work? Hm.  Probably not as well

You'd need to mulligan for your big drops, and it'd be risky because your opponent is probably doing the same. It seems more like an anti-synergy to me.

[popsofctown]

Could Ancestral Call work? Hm.  Probably not as well

You'd need to mulligan for your big drops, and it'd be risky because your opponent is probably doing the same. It seems more like an anti-synergy to me.

You could run tons of big drops safely though, because it's impossible to draw them apart from your starting hand.

As for your assumption about the meta, I don't know what to expect.  If you really think people are mulliganing for big stuff in this format I don't know whether that's true but if it is true that is indeed problematic.

[ycz6]

Could Ancestral Call work? Hm.  Probably not as well

You'd need to mulligan for your big drops, and it'd be risky because your opponent is probably doing the same. It seems more like an anti-synergy to me.

You could run tons of big drops safely though, because it's impossible to draw them apart from your starting hand.

As for your assumption about the meta, I don't know what to expect.  If you really think people are mulliganing for big stuff in this format I don't know whether that's true but if it is true that is indeed problematic.

Well, my thought was that since you're gonna have a perfect curve anyway, there's no point in mulliganing for early game cards, so you might as well try to make sure you draw your biggest threats. Maybe that's not the right approach though, I have seen some aggressive decks with multiple 1/2/3 drops do well.

[KingZog3]

I think it's best to mulligan for mid game cards, and have a few good ones. Like healbot/loatheb and you can have options then. Otherwise, Secret Pally is good, since you guarentee all your secrets in your deck. Just tune it with some big late game drops, but you'll always curve minibot+muster.

[chairs]

I love the idea of running a lot of card draw in conjunction with astral communion (and no other 4-drop). you chuck a couple card draws afterwards to refill your hand, and now you've got the extra crystals to keep burning.

[blueblimp]

Interesting brawl format. The first player advantage is massive though (since the extra card doesn't really matter, and the coin doesn't do a lot when you can play on curve every turn anyway).

Edit: And for what it's worth, I've been playing Secret Paladin and have yet to face a deck that felt competitive with it except in the mirror. I started with non-secret Paladin because that way you guarantee a good turn 1, but Mysterious Challenger seems to be worth sometimes having a weak turn 1. (I got crushed in the mirror playing non-secret vs secret, so that convinced me to switch.) I'm using the curve Minibot -> Muster -> Kings -> Belcher -> Challenger -> Boom, and though turn 8+ tends to not matter a lot, Kel'Thuzad/Tirion, then Alexstrasza. The reasoning for Kings is that it's a strong proactive play the turn after a Muster. I see my opponents sometimes running Loatheb (which appears to be standard in ranked secret Paladin), but because spells are weak in this format, I don't think it's as effective as Belcher. Variable-cost minions are nice to draw in your starting hand: I'm running Sea Giant and Molten Giant, and have occasionally got use from the Sea Giant, and not yet from the Molten Giant although there are games where I would have liked to have it in my hand.

[popsofctown]

Well, obviously once this strategy gets overpopular enough, counter decks can just run one of the cards Blizzard provided that  fully counters Muster.

OH WAIT

[KingZog3]

You can't draw molten giants. Their value only changes once they are in your hand. Unless you run extra card draw.

[blueblimp]

You can't draw molten giants. Their value only changes once they are in your hand. Unless you run extra card draw.

I know. That's the reason to run them: you only want to put in 1 card per mana cost if you possibly can, because that gives you your best possible curve every time.

Edit: Also I just lost to a very interesting Astral Communion deck. The curve went Shieldbearer -> Doomsayer -> Shade -> Astral Communion, and my opponent put no 5 and 6 drops in his deck at all, so that he would just draw a random card; turned out his turn 5 draw was Deathwing, not bad. I only lost the game because of losing all 3 Ragnaros coin-flips at the end though, and I had won an earlier game against the same opponent, so I think his deck is still weaker. But it's an interesting concept and maybe can be refined into something strong.

[blueblimp]

I like how this brawl allows you to see your opponent's deck idea clearly from even one game.

I just lost a couple to a different take on secret paladin that had some neat ideas. In my deck, I was running chow and secretkeeper, hoping to draw one either in opening hand or instead of a secret on turn 1.

What my opponent did with his deck was to simply play out a secret on turn 1, then play a doomsayer on turn 2. It's very hard to clear the doomsayer at that point. (I managed it in the second game, but even then, redemption brought it back. ) For his turn 4 draw, he chose Dread Corsair, which I think is bad, but does allow him to develop an additional secret if he has one in hand. On 5, he chose Quartermaster instead of Blecher, which I can believe might be better. And on 9, he chose Kraken (compared to my Alexstrasza), which gave him lethal. I can see the argument for Kraken, since it has similar stats, but a more flexible battlecry.

Another couple interesting things about his deck: he runs Target Dummy, which picked up significant value by defending his mustered dudes (as did the Dread Corsair). Seems good, as my Sea Giant simply sat in my hand as I always had something better to do. He also runs 5 secrets (Repentance being one), which I'm sure is good, as Repentance is strong in the mirror.

[ashersky]

I just made a regular dragon priest deck and won my first game for the pack.  Didn't put much thought into it at all.

[Awaclus]

I just made a regular dragon priest deck and won my first game for the pack.  Didn't put much thought into it at all.

I did this, but with midrange Hunter.

[popsofctown]

I just made a regular dragon priest deck and won my first game for the pack.  Didn't put much thought into it at all.

You're missing out on personal growth dude

[popsofctown]

I now feel dumb for running Nourish and Azure drake in my Astral Communion deck.  I should have just run no 5's like that other druid.


I tried my aggroburn shaman, since it feels like the main reason I lose with that deck is the games where I don't draw Doomhammer, and I can guarantee I draw Doomhammer.  I won at least half my games but I didn't feel it was truly strong.

I tried guaranteed Hobgoblin and managed hobgoblin hobgoblin innervate goldshire footman goldshire footman.  And I had rampant growth'ed that out a turn earlier than you'd normally be able to.  And I STILL lost.

You're supposed to play stuff on curve though, it is not Hobgoblin's brawl.

And yet, I want to try Conceal -> Doomsayer -> Alarm-o-bot, which is also not on curve (pretty sure that's better than Ancestral call)

[markusin]

I just made a regular dragon priest deck and won my first game for the pack.  Didn't put much thought into it at all.

You're missing out on personal growth dude

Actually I feel a Dragon Priest variant is decent in this Brawl because it has really strong minions on the 1-4 mana curve. I used a Dragon Priest deck with Twilight Whelp and Northshire Cleric as my only 1-drops, Wyrmrest as my only 2 drop, Dark Cultist/Blackwing Tech/SW:D as my only 3 drops, Twilight Guardian as my only 4 drops, Sylvanas and Lightbomb as my only 6 drops, then Ysera and Mind Control and some other stuff like Voljin/Azure/Corruptor at 5.

My first try I beat an Astral Communion deck with lots and lots of fatties (no real card draw). The trickiest part about facing that deck was the turn 3 King Mukla. Bananas aren't so good if your plan was to play stuff on curve.

I haven't played against Secret Pally yet (and I don't have Mysterious Challengers to play it myself) but I hope Lightbomb and SW:D would give my deck a chance against it.

[Grujah]

I did a
Argent Squire Coin Argent Squire -> Annoyo -> Bloodmage -> Enchance-o-mehano for the win.

I've also seen a video of
Turn 2 Mana Adict
turn 3 Rockbitter, Rockbitter, Coin, Windfurry.

[blueblimp]

It's pretty frustrating playing against opponents who run multiple cards at the same mana cost (except when it's required for the deck archetype, like if you're playing a deck with secrets and also put minions at that cost). Like, I lost a secret paladin mirror to my opponent's equality consecrate. But running equality seems so bad in this format, because often you can't play it on turn 2. So maybe you can run it if you put other cards at 2. But once you start doing that, you're essentially just playing the awful ranked slot machine, hoping to draw your cards in the right order, instead of making a deck that plays to the format. So yeah, a ranked deck that gets strong draws will beat a deck built to be consistently strong on this brawl, but it's so boring to play those games. There's a reason I don't bother playing ranked much...

[blueblimp]

I've written a little bit about the deck I'm currently using for this brawl: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/344945-clockwork-card-dealer-secret-paladin. I haven't recently seen an opponent in the mirror that makes me think "I should be running that instead", although there are some tech choices that might be viable if all you care about is winning the mirror (Ironbeak Owl, Blood Knight, Harrison Jones...).

[popsofctown]

That deck is probably, like, the exact solution to this tavern brawl.  Unless it actually gets popular enough that you can expect mirrors and somehow want to go for mirror tech

[blueblimp]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's another odd choice like Doomsayer that turns out to be surprisingly OP in this brawl. I wouldn't have thought of Doomsayer myself, but after stealing the idea from the opponent who did it, I'm convinced it's an amazing choice. Even when you're playing as P2, you can nearly always get the Doomsayer to proc (sometimes with help from Redemption, Dummy, etc.), giving you board initiative and disrupting whatever plan your opponent had for their curve.

[qmech]

Mana Wraith is slightly interesting, although I've neither used nor seen it used to great effect.

[blueblimp]

Mana Wraith is slightly interesting, although I've neither used nor seen it used to great effect.

Without having tried it, I wouldn't think it'd do much as P2. Like imagine your opponent plays Zombie Chow T1, then there's no point where you can play the wraith and not have it immediately removed, in which case it's effectively a vanilla 2/2.

[popsofctown]

Mana Wraith seems pretty inneffective against Muster BoK too

[sitnaltax]

This "randomonium" Brawl is easily my least favorite to date. You can't even plan ahead with the cards in your hand, and it feels like 80% of the games go to whoever lucks into a huge unanswerable minion on round 1 or 2.

[blueblimp]

This "randomonium" Brawl is easily my least favorite to date. You can't even plan ahead with the cards in your hand, and it feels like 80% of the games go to whoever lucks into a huge unanswerable minion on round 1 or 2.

I assume the idea with this pair of brawls was to try out a low-RNG brawl (last week) and a high-RNG brawl (this week) and compare the play statistics on them.

[werothegreat]

Turn 1: Dread Infernal
Turn 2: Mal'Ganis

Turn 1: Doomguard
Turn 2: Demonheart

[Awaclus]

Yeah, this brawl sucks, but it's very nice for completing quests with classes you don't have the cards for, since there's more or less a 50% chance you win, a 50% chance you lose, and you know which one it is within the first two turns so you can resign if it's the latter.

[ashersky]

Yeah, I had a Turn 2 Chromaggus, then dropped three minions whose random prices went down to 1 from 5+.  Auto-resign, open pack.

In the pack was a Cenarius, which I wanted for ages when I was running Token Druid.

[Grujah]

I actually like this brawl. 

[Jorbles]

I couldn't really understand what the point of the brawl was, but I do like getting a free pack?

[popsofctown]

I couldn't really understand what the point of the brawl was, but I do like getting a free pack?

You clearly didn't get a 40 dust pack for enduring turn 2 Tirions

[qmech]

I thought I would like this given I seem to play games with a reasonable RNG component, but it's dialled a bit too high for my tastes.  Playing Shrink/Cabal T2 on a Houndmaster was great, but it's less fun when it's happening to you.

[Jorbles]

I couldn't really understand what the point of the brawl was, but I do like getting a free pack?

You clearly didn't get a 40 dust pack for enduring turn 2 Tirions

No, but I did Black Knight two of my opponent's Earth Elementals (I just straight up killed the third one he had). He resigned.

[popsofctown]

Warlock is probably the best class for this thing right? The more stuff you tap into your hand, the higher the chance it gets randomly undercosted?

On the other hand a format where cards are undercosted should involve fewer hero power activations, in theory, so maybe you want a class with good cards and a bad hero power rather than the reverse.

[Awaclus]

Warlock is probably the best class for this thing right? The more stuff you tap into your hand, the higher the chance it gets randomly undercosted?

On the other hand a format where cards are undercosted should involve fewer hero power activations, in theory, so maybe you want a class with good cards and a bad hero power rather than the reverse.

I had pretty good success with Druid since I needed to complete the 50 gold quest, I lost only one game out of 4. But I think the hero you choose will have only negligible impact on your chances of winning, and getting good RNG is by far the most important factor.

[popsofctown]

Warlock is probably the best class for this thing right? The more stuff you tap into your hand, the higher the chance it gets randomly undercosted?

On the other hand a format where cards are undercosted should involve fewer hero power activations, in theory, so maybe you want a class with good cards and a bad hero power rather than the reverse.

I had pretty good success with Druid since I needed to complete the 50 gold quest, I lost only one game out of 4. But I think the hero you choose will have only negligible impact on your chances of winning, and getting good RNG is by far the most important factor.

Oh yeah, it's definitely a 51% 49% thing, I'm just amused by the thought exercise.

[Jorbles]

I think it's probably best to just pick a class that has the most expensive but still good class cards. So probably Druid as Druid has a lot of expensive class cards that don't have downsides, aside from the cost which is irrelevant in this mode.

Warlock can fill their hand, but a lot of their minions have negative effects when you play to make up for their usual low casting cost. Like a Pit Lord, Doom Guard or Anima Golem being 1 mana isn't nearly as good as some of the other big class cards out there.

[popsofctown]

I think it's probably best to just pick a class that has the most expensive but still good class cards. So probably Druid as Druid has a lot of expensive class cards that don't have downsides, aside from the cost which is irrelevant in this mode.

Warlock can fill their hand, but a lot of their minions have negative effects when you play to make up for their usual low casting cost. Like a Pit Lord, Doom Guard or Anima Golem being 1 mana isn't nearly as good as some of the other big class cards out there.

This is true.  I got my pack with Druid.  Dark Wispers ftw

[pingpongsam]

I've noticed the cards can be randomly assigned a cost that does not exceed the original cost, that is, they can only be randomly undercosted.
Has anyone seen a card get reassigned a higher than original cost?

[popsofctown]

Yeah, they can only be undercosted.

Which makes me curious why Hearthpwn has little pictures of 10 mana War Golems and stuff in their blurb about the brawl.  I wonder if Blizz leaks early info to the site, then leaks it wrong, then they don't fix it.  Why wouldn't you play the brawl at least once before doing the writeup yknow.

[blueblimp]

I enjoyed this brawl more than the other random-cards brawls (webspinners, portals, random everything, ...). The issue I had with the others is often you just have overcosted crap in your hand and can't do anything. By making the cards cheap, it works around that problem. So yeah it's pretty coin-flippy, but you can at least do _something_ even if you lose, and there can be swings back and forth.

[Awaclus]

This brawl is awesome. I'm currently running this Druid deck:

2 Innervate
2 Zombie Chow
2 Wild Growth
2 Swipe
2 Defender of Argus
2 Keeper of the Grove
2 Maiden of the Lake
2 Nourish
1 Starfall
2 Druid of the Claw
2 Kvaldir Raider
2 Sludge Belcher
1 Emperor Thaurissan
2 Kodorider
2 Volcanic Lumberer
2 Frost Giant

I'm 3-0 so far and all of the games have been ridiculously easy (I made adjustments after the first game, though). I would run the $2 2/3 Wild Growth dude if I had them, but I don't.

EDIT: 6-0. I've played against one Paladin who had basically the same idea as I did now, but even that game wasn't too difficult since Druid is still much better than Paladin for this.

EDIT: And then I lost against a deck that was just a constructed midrange Hunter. 

[chairs]

I need to build a paladin deck for this.

[qmech]

EDIT: And then I lost against a deck that was just a constructed midrange Hunter. 

Hey, it works almost every time.

[ycz6]

You should throw in an Astral Communion or two if you've got them. Innervating into it is even more busted than it normally is.

[Awaclus]

You should throw in an Astral Communion or two if you've got them. Innervating into it is even more busted than it normally is.

Oh yeah, that's a brilliant idea. Too bad I don't have them.

[chairs]

I saw a guy play kvaldir raiders and maiden of the lake, and it was just dirty.

[qmech]

I saw a guy play kvaldir raiders and maiden of the lake, and it was just dirty.

Isn't that Pit Fighter?

[popsofctown]

I saw a guy play kvaldir raiders and maiden of the lake, and it was just dirty.

Isn't that Pit Fighter?

It has 1 more attack than pit fighter.

[Awaclus]

I saw a guy play kvaldir raiders and maiden of the lake, and it was just dirty.

Isn't that Pit Fighter?

It has 1 more attack than pit fighter.

More like 15 more attack than Pit Fighter.

Also, it's not dirty, it's just a good strategy. Maybe it'll become more popular as more people manage to wrap their heads around this brawl, and then someone might be able to come up with a counter, but for the time being, playing anything else but a Maiden of the Lake based ramp druid is just asking to lose every game against everyone who plays it.

[qmech]

I saw a guy play kvaldir raiders and maiden of the lake, and it was just dirty.

Isn't that Pit Fighter?

It has 1 more attack than pit fighter.

It appears I accidentally made a comment that could be read as containing play relevant information.

[chairs]

gdi I just really need to get 3 paladin wins and I am awful at paladin.

[blueblimp]

Why did I have to draw the win 5 brawls quest in the week they re-run webspinner brawl.

[ashersky]

The Joust mechanic is annoying in this Brawl.

[chairs]

I love this brawl. Dread scale erry day.

[blueblimp]

This brawl is easily my least favorite of all the random-card brawls. There are so many trash beasts, that once you get done playing out your Webspinners, your hand ends up as absolute garbage most of the time. So almost every play is unpleasantly terrible, except when you luck into something OP like Savannah Highmane, in which case the play is still super boring (play Savannah Highmane, end turn). This also happens to make each game run stupidly long.

The brawl with lowered card costs was more fun because at least most turns you are making a powerful play, most of the games are over quickly, and when the games do last long then it's because the lead was swinging back and forth, not because both players were stuck with trash hands for many turns.

[chairs]

The only trash beast I've really gotten (other than a late-turns mukla) is the parrot that pulls pirates.

[Grujah]

There are a lot of trash tier beasts in that brawl.

Angry Chicken, Stonetusk, Webspinner, Parrot, Crocolisk, Cobra, Dragonhawk, Raptor, Elephant, Murloc crab,1/4 ape.. like, 80% is crap.

[ycz6]

You must not play a lot of Arena if you think Webspinner, River Croc, Bloodfen Raptor, and Elekk are "trash-tier".

[blueblimp]

You must not play a lot of Arena if you think Webspinner, River Croc, Bloodfen Raptor, and Elekk are "trash-tier".

Croc/Raptor are OK as 2-drops, but in this brawl you are unlikely to have one in hand on turn 2, and anyway you have a perfectly acceptable play of 2 webspinners on that turn. On later turns, they are subpar plays. Even in arena, where you can realistically play them as 2-drops, they're only rated average on heartharena's tier list. I think it's fair to call them bad in this brawl, and arguably trash.

Elekk whiffs nearly always in this brawl (Webspinner vs Webspinner) so it's basically just a raptor, so it's bad for the same reason as raptor.

I agree with you though that getting webspinner from webspinner is good here.

(I don't claim to be an expert on strategy in this brawl though. It's too painful to actually sit through the games to gain that experience...)

[KingZog3]

You must not play a lot of Arena if you think Webspinner, River Croc, Bloodfen Raptor, and Elekk are "trash-tier".

Elekk whiffs nearly always in this brawl (Webspinner vs Webspinner) so it's basically just a raptor, so it's bad for the same reason as raptor.

Nearly always? How can you ever win besides a deck being empty?

[Awaclus]

You must not play a lot of Arena if you think Webspinner, River Croc, Bloodfen Raptor, and Elekk are "trash-tier".

Elekk whiffs nearly always in this brawl (Webspinner vs Webspinner) so it's basically just a raptor, so it's bad for the same reason as raptor.

Nearly always? How can you ever win besides a deck being empty?

Gang Up and the Druid beast that gets shuffled into your deck come to mind.

[markusin]

You must not play a lot of Arena if you think Webspinner, River Croc, Bloodfen Raptor, and Elekk are "trash-tier".

Elekk whiffs nearly always in this brawl (Webspinner vs Webspinner) so it's basically just a raptor, so it's bad for the same reason as raptor.

Nearly always? How can you ever win besides a deck being empty?

And an opponent's Recycle.

[Watno]

big surprise, the new brawl is actually intersting. It's cooperative.

[ashersky]

I love it.  I've also not won yet.  Best I've done is get it down to 10/2.

[chairs]

I like the new one, but I feel like you probably need really good shuffle luck to succeed. Hint: the paladin deck has a creature that gets +1 attack while in your hand every time one of your own creatures dies. I suspect this is a major choice of wincon in conjunction with "give this minion divine shield".

[KingZog3]

I like the new one, but I feel like you probably need really good shuffle luck to succeed. Hint: the paladin deck has a creature that gets +1 attack while in your hand every time one of your own creatures dies. I suspect this is a major choice of wincon in conjunction with "give this minion divine shield".

Actually I think the Priest's Millhouse Mana Storm, and the Lo Walker Cho are much bigger win conditions. Both decks are loaded with draw, and I think it's not too hard to win.

[Watno]

I like the new one, but I feel like you probably need really good shuffle luck to succeed. Hint: the paladin deck has a creature that gets +1 attack while in your hand every time one of your own creatures dies. I suspect this is a major choice of wincon in conjunction with "give this minion divine shield".

Until you notice there's Assasinates flying around.

[Awaclus]

Cho is definitely super good.

[ycz6]

I managed to beat it once. I don't think there was any one thing that caused us to win; we just chipped away at him with medium-sized creatures and I tried to play around his removal as much as possible. Lorewalker Cho and Millhouse both did some work, but didn't win all at once. Blessed Champion is really good.

One helpful fact is that Assassinate will always target the minion with the highest attack, and breaks ties by targeting the earlier-played one. So it's usually best to spread around your bananas, put Divine Shield on the second-largest minion, and save big buffs for minions that can attack.

[chairs]

the paladin "double a minion's attack" blessing is pretty awesome.

[chairs]

I suspect if you can work out the logic the bot uses to throw the various cards, you could win fairly reliably.

[blueblimp]

I don't like co-op with random people in general, so I was only gonna like this if it was amazing... and it's not. I find it a bit frustrating how you can't do much with the given decks without sticking a minion on the board, and often he'll just randomly remove them.

I suspect if you can work out the logic the bot uses to throw the various cards, you could win fairly reliably.

I've seen him use Assassinate on an empty board, so I'm pretty sure it's just random.

[KingZog3]

But when he does use assassinate, it targets the highest attack minion.

[qmech]

I played twice and won the second time.  The main contribution was from an Earthen Ring Farseer who survived several rounds of buff/shield/attack and finally took a Blessed Champion to get in two hits before finishing him off with the detritus left on board.

[qmech]

Nefarian can't actually lose right?  I had one Lay on Hands me for BM, for crying out loud.

Also had one T1 concede to me—not sure what that was about, as that's normally the correct play for Ragnaros.

[chairs]

I won my first game as Ragnaros.

[blueblimp]

Nefarian can't actually lose right?  I had one Lay on Hands me for BM, for crying out loud.

Also had one T1 concede to me—not sure what that was about, as that's normally the correct play for Ragnaros.

Nefarian got a nerf since last time, as far as I know just starting with less mana. I don't have an opinion yet on balance but it's much closer than it was the last time around. (That isn't saying much, since the previous time, Nefarian was totally broken.)

[Awaclus]

I played three games and Ragnaros won all 3.

[qmech]

I am amazed.

The problem for Ragnaros is that he has no appropriately sized early game removal.  If Nefarian opens with something like a 7/7 dragon and can remove your first one or two Magma Ragers then you're such a huge disadvantage that it's very difficult to come back.

[Haddock]

Rag seems way stronger to me this time round.  His minions are still bonkers, and Nefarian definitely feels like he's been nerfed.
I mean if Nefarian gets a good spell or two from his HP, sure, but that doesn't actually happen that often.  I more often get Arcane missiles and such crud than anything actually useful; and Nefarians minions are severely average.
I lost a game the other day by drawing no minions as Nefarian for 6 turns or something, just drawing spells like useless shadowflames and HPing for spells, and 3 of the spells that came from the Hero Power were Ancestor's Call, which is obviously actively harmful when you have no minions.
The 8 mana whelp thing that Nefarian has is the biggest powerhouse it seems to me, mostly just because it draws the inevitable flamestrike so you can actually play midsize minions fairly safely.  Anything big you play as Nefarian in the late game just gets Ragsniped, you have to rely on flooding the board a couple times until it manages not to get wiped for once.

[Jorbles]

Yeah, I've played 3 times now, Rag has won all three times, twice as me, once as my opponent.

[qmech]

Well, this explains the auto-concede, but not my 100% Nefarian/0% Ragnaros record.

[KingZog3]

I feel Nefarian is still stronger, but the balance is much like the hunter vs mage TGT brawl. One deck is stronger, but both can win games.

[Jorbles]

I actually like this Brawl a lot. Lots of neat decision making. Should you tempo out and try to play out a bunch of cheap cards or should you try and get cards that will do better in the late game. I won my first try, but it's actually an interesting game mode.

[pingpongsam]

It's arena on the fly.

[Jorbles]

It's arena on the fly.

That's a pretty good description of it.

[blueblimp]

This is the first brawl that has any drafting component at all. I like it, although the games are really long, and I feel like the class legendaries get offered too much. (If you're Paladin for example, it's not unusual to have Tirion offered multiple times in the same game.) The long value games remind me a bit of how classic arena played out.

[popsofctown]

I think it's super super skill inensive.

[qmech]

This is the first brawl that has any drafting component at all. I like it, although the games are really long, and I feel like the class legendaries get offered too much. (If you're Paladin for example, it's not unusual to have Tirion offered multiple times in the same game.) The long value games remind me a bit of how classic arena played out.

I've been playing a lot of Rogue, and see frequent Edwins and Gallywixes.  I have at least once been offered two Edwins at the same time, which is odd because I think I've seen Brode or somebody say that that shouldn't really happen with Discover.

[Awaclus]

This is the first brawl that has any drafting component at all. I like it, although the games are really long, and I feel like the class legendaries get offered too much. (If you're Paladin for example, it's not unusual to have Tirion offered multiple times in the same game.) The long value games remind me a bit of how classic arena played out.

I've been playing a lot of Rogue, and see frequent Edwins and Gallywixes.  I have at least once been offered two Edwins at the same time, which is odd because I think I've seen Brode or somebody say that that shouldn't really happen with Discover.

It's not the exact same mechanic as Discover, you can't apparently get weapons for some reason.


I feel like there is a massive first-player advantage here. I had to play two games before I won my first game for the pack, and later I got the 5 Brawls quest so I ended up playing a lot more than I usually do, and only one of those games was won by the second player (who was my opponent when I was playing Warrior before I knew that you can't get weapons, and that was an incredibly close game). It's hard to say if this is true though, since it doesn't really feel all that intuitive.

[qmech]

I'm not sure about first player advantage.  Rogue with the coin is in a pretty good spot, as they have the option of trading 2 for 1 with dagger over the first few turns.  I haven't tracked my record carefully though.

[werothegreat]

The fact that discovering a 1-drop is highly unlikely on the first turn, I'd say there's actually a second player advantage in this brawl.

[Awaclus]

The fact that discovering a 1-drop is highly unlikely on the first turn, I'd say there's actually a second player advantage in this brawl.

The 2-drops in this brawl are basically guaranteed to trade up with 1-drops and down with 3-drops (since there's no point in discovering a 2-drop), so you usually wouldn't even want a 1-drop. Instead, what's pretty important is that you get to play your 3-drop first.

[werothegreat]

I like this one!  Just run an all minion deck and get tons of free spells!

[popsofctown]

SNEED'S TIME HAS FINALLY COME GUYS!!!!

[popsofctown]

Someone put millhouse in their deck.  So brilliant.

[popsofctown]

There's a bug with summoning stone where it ignores cost modifiers.  Everyone is using it in this Brawl.

[markusin]

There's a bug with summoning stone where it ignores cost modifiers.  Everyone is using it in this Brawl.

I noticed. I wonder if it's true for all cost modifiers, or just the Tavern Brawl special one.

My games in this Brawl typically went on forever. The game I won went to fatigue.

[Jorbles]

There's a bug with summoning stone where it ignores cost modifiers.  Everyone is using it in this Brawl.

It took me a game to realize this, I expected my opponent to flood his board with Target Dummies and Wisps and then got runover.

I did end up winning without Summoning Stone by using Troggzor. Troggzor is super good in this Brawl too.

[popsofctown]

There's a bug with summoning stone where it ignores cost modifiers.  Everyone is using it in this Brawl.

I noticed. I wonder if it's true for all cost modifiers, or just the Tavern Brawl special one.

My games in this Brawl typically went on forever. The game I won went to fatigue.

It's true for all cost modifiers, it was a known bug with Preparation before the Tavern brawl came out.  The card is just such garbage that even getting a minion a massive 3 mana bigger than it should be isn't enough for it to see a shred of constructed play.

[Awaclus]

It's true for all cost modifiers, it was a known bug with Preparation before the Tavern brawl came out.  The card is just such garbage that even getting a minion a massive 3 mana bigger than it should be isn't enough for it to see a shred of constructed play.

It's not that awful. A 7-mana minion and a 0/6 Taunt is pretty good value for a 5-cost card. It's just that the metagame isn't right for that type of deck to work well at the moment.

[popsofctown]

Where are you getting 7 mana minion? you can prep and get a wisp and an earhten ring farseer, then it dies.

[markusin]

Where are you getting 7 mana minion? you can prep and get a wisp and an earhten ring farseer, then it dies.

Weren't we working under the assumption that cost reduction doesn't affect what Summoning Stone summons? So a Prepped Sprint would still summon a 7-mana Minion.

[Awaclus]

My games in this Brawl typically went on forever. The game I won went to fatigue.

All games I won went to fatigue.

I played Mill Druid to complete the 60 gold Druid/Rogue quest because I don't have good cards for either class.

[markusin]

My games in this Brawl typically went on forever. The game I won went to fatigue.

All games I won went to fatigue.

I played Mill Druid to complete the 60 gold Druid/Rogue quest because I don't have good cards for either class.

I had the same quest. Threw something together with Rogue and Reno. Really, any deck with Reno has a huge edge against the inevitable aggro players.

[popsofctown]

Where are you getting 7 mana minion? you can prep and get a wisp and an earhten ring farseer, then it dies.

Weren't we working under the assumption that cost reduction doesn't affect what Summoning Stone summons? So a Prepped Sprint would still summon a 7-mana Minion.

Are you waiting until turn 9 to make this play, or do you have some strange expectation that a turn 5 0/6 will reliably stick?  It might stick in Arena, but not Constructed.

[Awaclus]

Where are you getting 7 mana minion? you can prep and get a wisp and an earhten ring farseer, then it dies.

Weren't we working under the assumption that cost reduction doesn't affect what Summoning Stone summons? So a Prepped Sprint would still summon a 7-mana Minion.

Are you waiting until turn 9 to make this play, or do you have some strange expectation that a turn 5 0/6 will reliably stick?  It might stick in Arena, but not Constructed.

You are waiting until turn 9.

[Jorbles]

Where are you getting 7 mana minion? you can prep and get a wisp and an earhten ring farseer, then it dies.

Weren't we working under the assumption that cost reduction doesn't affect what Summoning Stone summons? So a Prepped Sprint would still summon a 7-mana Minion.

Are you waiting until turn 9 to make this play, or do you have some strange expectation that a turn 5 0/6 will reliably stick?  It might stick in Arena, but not Constructed.

It might stick in Arena sometimes, but it's so hard to reliably draft good spells that I don't even know if that would make me draft it. I actually think that cards really neat though, I want to make it work in a deck, but have yet to pull that together.

[Grujah]

New brawl is some kind of a deckbuilder, you start with some chickens, some coins, and some spare parts. Each turn you discover a card, play stuff in your hand, than everything gets shuffled back and you draw new 4.

[Watno]

I got the impression it was designed by someone who played Dominion and didn''t get the point of the game.

[markusin]

I got the impression it was designed by someone who played Dominion and didn''t get the point of the game.

Picking from a changing supply sounds more like Ascension, or War of Omens.

[werothegreat]

I like it!  I pulled out two Hoggers and a Sunwalker - my opponent managed to get rid of them, then I pulled out an Innervate and just played all of them again.

[blueblimp]

Interesting idea but it feels like a worse version of the discover brawl.

• The putting-things-back-in-the-deck mechanic can be frustrating because if one player finds a card that's strong in the format (such as MC Tech, Loatheb, etc.), then they don't just get to play it once but a ton of times. It's like the struggle that happens occasionally in arena when your opponent drops some ridiculous legendary, you manage to kill it at great cost, and then they just drop another one--except here this annoyance is built into the format.
• A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.
• Unlike the discover brawl, you're less willing to take something that only works this turn, because if it's generally not a good card, it's going to hurt your draws later. That eliminates part of what made the discover brawl fun.
• The discover brawl was a lot simpler, so it didn't need annoying instruction pop-ups at the start of every game.

Saddest thing is I tried playing Warlock a couple times to use discard mechanics to thin my deck, but I never discovered any discard cards in time for it to matter. It takes so long to play out a game too...

Edit: I keep trying this and anything interesting fails to happen. It's just, either me or the other guy discovers a broken card, then it takes 5+ more turns to slowly snowball into a win unless someone concedes.

[pingpongsam]

Hate this brawl. Like the creative idea but the actual effect si terrible. I played one game that went something like 60-70 turns before I finally resigned out of boredom. Plus, all the things blueblimp said.

[Jorbles]

I actually love this brawl. There's some swingy cards that can make it unfair, but overall it's one of the most interesting brawls I've ever played.

I completely disagree with some of these points too.

Interesting idea but it feels like a worse version of the discover brawl.

• The putting-things-back-in-the-deck mechanic can be frustrating because if one player finds a card that's strong in the format (such as MC Tech, Loatheb, etc.), then they don't just get to play it once but a ton of times. It's like the struggle that happens occasionally in arena when your opponent drops some ridiculous legendary, you manage to kill it at great cost, and then they just drop another one--except here this annoyance is built into the format.

This is probably the most frustrating thing about this Brawl. That said if someone gets a great card you can draft specific counters to that card sometimes and counter it throughout the game. If the card counters it once it will continue to counter it. (For instance I draft a Mogushan to counter Chickens, my opponent drafts a Kodo to counter Mogushan, I draft Weblord to counter Kodo, he drafts Owl to counter both Mogushan and Weblord, so on and so forth).

• A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.

• Unlike the discover brawl, you're less willing to take something that only works this turn, because if it's generally not a good card, it's going to hurt your draws later. That eliminates part of what made the discover brawl fun.

Totally disagree with this. I mean you probably don't want something that generates spare parts, but I've been taking things that only work 1 turn because you'd rather do something effective now than later. The games are too fast to take expensive cards that you can't play until later.

• The discover brawl was a lot simpler, so it didn't need annoying instruction pop-ups at the start of every game.

Saddest thing is I tried playing Warlock a couple times to use discard mechanics to thin my deck, but I never discovered any discard cards in time for it to matter. It takes so long to play out a game too...

Edit: I keep trying this and anything interesting fails to happen. It's just, either me or the other guy discovers a broken card, then it takes 5+ more turns to slowly snowball into a win unless someone concedes.

Discarding doesn't actually thin your deck to my knowledge. It just thins your hand. (that said you don't care if you discard an important card because you can always redraw it making discard cards reasonable). Edit: Not actually sure about this. Haven't played Warlock.

Hate this brawl. Like the creative idea but the actual effect si terrible. I played one game that went something like 60-70 turns before I finally resigned out of boredom. Plus, all the things blueblimp said.

The majority of the games I've played are over before turn 10, but I did play one game like you described, but I found it to be incredibly fun. I managed to come back from an opponent who had double Kel Thuzad and retake the board only to stall out again, but then eventually win when I dropped Jaraxxus from Sneed's Old Shredder, bounced it with a Youthful Brewmaster and Coined into playing Jeraxxus immediately for the win. In the late game people are less likely to draw their annoying cards so you actually see them less.

[pingpongsam]

• A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.

I completely disgaree with this, lol. I lost repeatedly by trying to play for the early game and board control and answering the threats I knew were recurring. the winning strategy proved to be getting the heaviest hitting drafts that would recur in the late game. Fel Reaver is an autowin condition since it will empty your deck and you just play it over and over.

[Jorbles]

• A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.

I completely disgaree with this, lol. I lost repeatedly by trying to play for the early game and board control and answering the threats I knew were recurring. the winning strategy proved to be getting the heaviest hitting drafts that would recur in the late game. Fel Reaver is an autowin condition since it will empty your deck and you just play it over and over.

Fel Reaver is completely OP in this mode. I have found that most games are over by turn 5-9 though. If it goes to 10 it's usually pretty evenly matched.

[Jorbles]

On the other hand, Flame Leviathan, not OP. Doesn't work at all in this mode as you don't draw cards they just appear in your hand.

[werothegreat]

I like this one better than the pirate brawl - the 2/3s really don't do much, and you can't do anything turn 1. The combination of chickens, spare parts, and coins work much better as a "starting deck".

[blueblimp]

• A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.

Recognizing good cards for a brawl is interesting yeah and part of why I play every brawl even if it's a bit unfun once you figure it out. The beef I have with this brawl is it's almost all that's going on. e.g. I had a game where I draft Hobgoblin, and my opponent immediately concedes because of course he's going to lose. On the flip side, I've had multiple games where my opponent drafts Fjola Lightbane, and it's basically impossible to win against that.

Maybe the thing I like most about this brawl is being given a bunch of spare parts to do things with. It would be nice to have a brawl where you discover a spare part every turn. (Maybe too similar to the banana brawl.)

[Kirian]

I'm going to have to re-download HS just to try out HS-crossproduct-Ascension.

[Jorbles]

• A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.

Recognizing good cards for a brawl is interesting yeah and part of why I play every brawl even if it's a bit unfun once you figure it out. The beef I have with this brawl is it's almost all that's going on. e.g. I had a game where I draft Hobgoblin, and my opponent immediately concedes because of course he's going to lose. On the flip side, I've had multiple games where my opponent drafts Fjola Lightbane, and it's basically impossible to win against that.

Maybe the thing I like most about this brawl is being given a bunch of spare parts to do things with. It would be nice to have a brawl where you discover a spare part every turn. (Maybe too similar to the banana brawl.)

I don't think it's impossible, I've certainly beaten decks that have drafted Fjola, it certainly involves a bit of luck, but there's enough broken cards in this mode that you can come back at any point in the game as long as you still have some board presence if you get lucky and get one of them yourself. I think turn 1 or 2 Imp Gang Boss is actually the hardest card to come back from, you get to constantly flood your board with disposable minions while you plop down large cards that would usually cost you too much tempo to play. (or an early Astral Communion, but that's just insanely strong)

[markusin]

• A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.

Recognizing good cards for a brawl is interesting yeah and part of why I play every brawl even if it's a bit unfun once you figure it out. The beef I have with this brawl is it's almost all that's going on. e.g. I had a game where I draft Hobgoblin, and my opponent immediately concedes because of course he's going to lose. On the flip side, I've had multiple games where my opponent drafts Fjola Lightbane, and it's basically impossible to win against that.

Maybe the thing I like most about this brawl is being given a bunch of spare parts to do things with. It would be nice to have a brawl where you discover a spare part every turn. (Maybe too similar to the banana brawl.)

I don't think it's impossible, I've certainly beaten decks that have drafted Fjola, it certainly involves a bit of luck, but there's enough broken cards in this mode that you can come back at any point in the game as long as you still have some board presence if you get lucky and get one of them yourself. I think turn 1 or 2 Imp Gang Boss is actually the hardest card to come back from, you get to constantly flood your board with disposable minions while you plop down large cards that would usually cost you too much tempo to play. (or an early Astral Communion, but that's just insanely strong)

I think in this Brawl you can only discover neutral or class cards, so it's really unlikely for someone to draft both Imp Gang Boss and Astral Communion.

[Jorbles]

• A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.

Recognizing good cards for a brawl is interesting yeah and part of why I play every brawl even if it's a bit unfun once you figure it out. The beef I have with this brawl is it's almost all that's going on. e.g. I had a game where I draft Hobgoblin, and my opponent immediately concedes because of course he's going to lose. On the flip side, I've had multiple games where my opponent drafts Fjola Lightbane, and it's basically impossible to win against that.

Maybe the thing I like most about this brawl is being given a bunch of spare parts to do things with. It would be nice to have a brawl where you discover a spare part every turn. (Maybe too similar to the banana brawl.)

I don't think it's impossible, I've certainly beaten decks that have drafted Fjola, it certainly involves a bit of luck, but there's enough broken cards in this mode that you can come back at any point in the game as long as you still have some board presence if you get lucky and get one of them yourself. I think turn 1 or 2 Imp Gang Boss Master is actually the hardest card to come back from, you get to constantly flood your board with disposable minions while you plop down large cards that would usually cost you too much tempo to play. (or an early Astral Communion, but that's just insanely strong)

I think in this Brawl you can only discover neutral or class cards, so it's really unlikely for someone to draft both Imp Gang Boss and Astral Communion.

Whoops, I meant Imp Master.

[chairs]

I got the priest 7 drop that summons legendary minions on inspire. I  got a foe reaper 4000 on it and my enemy conceded.

[markusin]

I think the main thing holding me back from playing this Brawl repeatedly is the ratio between the amount of time it takes to get through and how much control you have over your victory. I think in practice you can tell who has the major edge by turn 9-10 though.

[chairs]

Knife juggler is the most OP crap you can get in the first turn or two. You just keep flooding knife jugglers and say, one taunt minion, and is incredibly tough to counter as some classes.

[Awaclus]

My opponent got a Clockwork Gnome.

[pingpongsam]

Knife juggler is the most OP crap you can get in the first turn or two. You just keep flooding knife jugglers and say, one taunt minion, and is incredibly tough to counter as some classes.

I don't know, I got an early flamewaker and pretty soon there was no way for the opponent to come back.

[werothegreat]

I just pulled out a turn 1 Sen'jin with three Coins in hand.  My opponent immediately resigned.

[Jorbles]

My opponent got a Clockwork Gnome.

I don't understand why people pick this, it's pretty terrible in this mode. But then people are playing as Shaman in this mode and then losing the board the turn after they play a card with overload, so I think people are having trouble learning to play it.

[popsofctown]

It seems like there's something wrong or screwy with the implementation.  The cards left in your deck always immediately increases by 1 when you play a card, but if you wait and redraw your hand and add up how many cards you've gained, your total deck size is never correct based on what it tells you it should be.

The probability of drawing certain cards also feels off.  I have had opponents spray their chickens and spare parts like crazy and still continually draw their non-starting cards a lot, while using lots of restraint on the 1 mana cards had no discernible effect on my probability of drawing them.  I tried spamming the spare parts and chickens myself in a subsequent game, and still couldn't tell a difference, and still seemed to get my non-starting cards a lot.

Drawing two copies of the same non-starting card should happen from time to time, but I haven't really seen it happen.

I think they got it working to a point where you can't prove it's not doing what it says it's doing without 1000 automated trials, so they got it through QA that way, but I suspect it's not quite right.

[qmech]

I'm not entirely sure what you think the problem might be, but everything you describe sounds like expected behaviour if it works how they say it does: that all cards, whether you play them or not, end up back in your deck by the end of the turn.  You shouldn't expect to draw duplicates if you only have one of a card in your deck.

[ycz6]

I'm not entirely sure what you think the problem might be, but everything you describe sounds like expected behaviour if it works how they say it does: that all cards, whether you play them or not, end up back in your deck by the end of the turn.  You shouldn't expect to draw duplicates if you only have one of a card in your deck.

Yeah, I was under the same impression as pops before I realized that playing cards doesn't actually make you more likely to draw them in future turns.

[Titandrake]

I'm not entirely sure what you think the problem might be, but everything you describe sounds like expected behaviour if it works how they say it does: that all cards, whether you play them or not, end up back in your deck by the end of the turn.  You shouldn't expect to draw duplicates if you only have one of a card in your deck.

Wow, I actually had the same misconception.

The way I've made sense of it to myself is to imagine that every minion in your hand is actually a spell that says "Summon this minion." Whenever you play a spell, shuffle it back into your deck. At the end of your turn, shuffle your hand back into your deck.

I got confused because there was a minion in play and a copy of that card in the deck, but that's not the same as 2 copies of that card in the deck after ending your turn.

[blueblimp]

I'm not entirely sure what you think the problem might be, but everything you describe sounds like expected behaviour if it works how they say it does: that all cards, whether you play them or not, end up back in your deck by the end of the turn.  You shouldn't expect to draw duplicates if you only have one of a card in your deck.

Yep. Played cards and cards left in hand go back in the deck, and don't multiply themselves (you still have just one copy). You can only get rid of cards via removing them from your hand or deck via other mechanics, such as discard.

So feel free to spam everything from your hand. Just maybe don't draft Voidcaller if you have another demon you want to keep.

[ycz6]

Astral Communion = Chapel?

(Or Count, maybe...)

[KingZog3]

I'm not entirely sure what you think the problem might be, but everything you describe sounds like expected behaviour if it works how they say it does: that all cards, whether you play them or not, end up back in your deck by the end of the turn.  You shouldn't expect to draw duplicates if you only have one of a card in your deck.

Yep. Played cards and cards left in hand go back in the deck, and don't multiply themselves (you still have just one copy). You can only get rid of cards via removing them from your hand or deck via other mechanics, such as discard.

So feel free to spam everything from your hand. Just maybe don't draft Voidcaller if you have another demon you want to keep.

But you can play a card, then draw it. Do you CAN get more than 1 copy of a card on the board. I play Knife Juggler, then it goes in my deck, I draw it, play it again next turn. You can't have more than 1 copy of a card in your deck, but you can have more than 1 copy in play.

[Awaclus]

They'll multiply if you can play them multiple times per hand, or just play and then return to hand, though.

[qmech]

They'll multiply if you can play them multiple times per hand, or just play and then return to hand, though.

If you mean cards in deck then you can only multiply by removing something from play, either to hand or in some Malorne type way.  You can get multiple copies of a minion in play with one copy in your deck, but you can't get multiple copies of the card in your deck just by playing it a lot, even multiple times per turn.

[Awaclus]

If you mean cards in deck then you can only multiply by removing something from play, either to hand or in some Malorne type way.  You can get multiple copies of a minion in play with one copy in your deck, but you can't get multiple copies of the card in your deck just by playing it a lot, even multiple times per turn.

How can you play a card a lot if you don't remove it from play somehow?

[qmech]

If you mean cards in deck then you can only multiply by removing something from play, either to hand or in some Malorne type way.  You can get multiple copies of a minion in play with one copy in your deck, but you can't get multiple copies of the card in your deck just by playing it a lot, even multiple times per turn.

How can you play a card a lot if you don't remove it from play somehow?

Cards go back in your deck when you play them, not when the minion they spawn dies, so you can play a minion then redraw its card whilst the first minion is still on the board.

[Awaclus]

Cards go back in your deck when you play them, not when the minion they spawn dies, so you can play a minion then redraw its card whilst the first minion is still on the board.

It's not the same card, it's a copy.

[qmech]

That's true, but you removed a copy of the card from your deck when you drew it in the first place so the effect is the same.

[Awaclus]

That's true, but you removed a copy of the card from your deck when you drew it in the first place so the effect is the same.

No it's not, since the original copy is still in play.

[qmech]

That's not a card, it's a minion.

Maybe it's easiest if I just say explicitly how it works.

You start your turn with some number of cards in your hand.  If you

- play a card, it resolves and then a copy goes into your deck;
- discard a card through something like Soulfire, it is gone never to be seen again;
- still have a card in your hand at the end of your turn, a copy goes into your deck.

Resolving a minion card means summoning the corresponding minion.  There is a distinction between minion cards in hand and minions on the board, but this is the first time it's really come up.

[Awaclus]

That's not a card, it's a minion.

Well, it's still that minion you return to your hand, not a copy of it.

[qmech]

I think we're now in violent agreement.  The original question was whether you could stuff your deck with copies of X just by playing X a lot.  You can't, but I don't think you are claiming that you can.

[Awaclus]

I think we're now in violent agreement.  The original question was whether you could stuff your deck with copies of X just by playing X a lot.  You can't, but I don't think you are claiming that you can.

If you play the same instance of X more than once per turn, you can, which is what I was saying.

EDIT: actually it doesn't even need the "per turn" there.

[qmech]

Definitely violent agreement. 

They'll multiply if you can play them multiple times per hand, or just play and then return to hand, though.

If you mean cards in deck then you can only multiply by removing something from play, either to hand or in some Malorne type way.  You can get multiple copies of a minion in play with one copy in your deck, but you can't get multiple copies of the card in your deck just by playing it a lot, even multiple times per turn.

I was querying whether your "they" meant cards, which is what the previous posters were discussing.  Apparently it didn't, it meant minions in play.

[pingpongsam]

I got the brawl daily. I've warmed up to the format after being forced to play it. I'd say I can do about a 70% win rate. I still think the games run way too long.

[popsofctown]

It said "When you play a card, it goes into your deck." But it obviously also goes into your deck if you don't play it.  So I thought you could multiply them.  I see now that's not how it works.  The expllanation was a bit confusing I think.

[blueblimp]

I'd like to see this brawl return later with some tweaks. Maybe it's just from having experience with Dominion and other deck builders, but I feel like you should be offered more tools for managing your deck. These exist in Hearthstone, but they aren't offered very often. For example, trashers (e.g. Soulfire), gainers (e.g. Jeweled Scarab), junkers (e.g. Mechanical Yeti, sort of).

Edit: By the way, I wonder whether Peter Whalen had a hand in this one. It could signal that Blizzard has a deck-building mode in the works. After all, the discover mechanic was intended to be previewed in a brawl before League of Explorers was announced.

[Grujah]

I'd like to see this brawl return later with some tweaks. Maybe it's just from having experience with Dominion and other deck builders, but I feel like you should be offered more tools for managing your deck. These exist in Hearthstone, but they aren't offered very often. For example, trashers (e.g. Soulfire), gainers (e.g. Jeweled Scarab), junkers (e.g. Mechanical Yeti, sort of).

Edit: By the way, I wonder whether Peter Whalen had a hand in this one. It could signal that Blizzard has a deck-building mode in the works. After all, the discover mechanic was intended to be previewed in a brawl before League of Explorers was announced.

Somebody made a reddit thread:
If you liked this brawl, try this games:
Dominion, Thunderstone, etc..

And Ben Brode replied:
Or Dreamquest! That was our inspiration, we liked it so much, in fact, that we hired the designer!

So, I'd say he does, at least a bit

[blueblimp]

This brawl is the weirdest brawl yet. Each turn, if you don't have one already, your board spawns a 0 mana 0/4 crate with deathrattle that gives the _current_ player a 1 mana discover-a-card spell. You end up with this mess of players trying to kill their own cards.

The best class seems to be Warlock, on account of having the most tools to activate his own crates: Power Overwhelming, Soulfire, Shadow Bolt, Shadowflame, Twisting Nether, Void Terror, and some others.

[werothegreat]

Keep in mind the card that comes out of the gift is from the class of the player you got it from.  And its cost is reduced by 5.

[KingZog3]

Keep in mind the card that comes out of the gift is from the class of the player you got it from.  And its cost is reduced by 5.

Im not sure it's every class card though. I never encountered super low cost cards from gifts. They all seemed to be 5 or more base cost. Which means classes like rogue, which I thought would be good since they have a bunch of bad low cost cards, and even some useless ones, is actually terrible, because things like Gallywix appear more often.

If Warlock is the best, is there a counter to it? Or should everyone play warlock?

[dedicateddan]

Each crate that you kill is worth gives you a five mana discount for just 1 in discover cost. Warlock is great at picking up crates and denying your opponents, so it's likely just the class.

[Kirian]

So you can pull Twisting Nether from a Warlock crate, which gives you both crates.

I think there's going to be a lot of Warlock vs Warlock action...

Edit: LOL, they even changed Jaraxxus's greeting for Winter Veil!

[markusin]

Priest seems usable too though. You can do Divine Spirit and Inner Fire shenanigans. Velen's Chosen and Confuse are also useful.

[blueblimp]

I never encountered super low cost cards from gifts. They all seemed to be 5 or more base cost.

That would explain why it feels like an endless parade of Mal'Ganis and Twisting Nether. In a Warlock mirror, it might be correct to just keep taking Twisting Nether and try to exhaust your opponent's deck.

[ashersky]

I played once with Lock as I saw here, beat a warrior with his own Dr. Taunt Booms.

[werothegreat]

I've been playing Druid, since I had the quest.  Locks should definitely be running Sacrifical Pact, since you know your opponent is going to be getting some Demons.

[pingpongsam]

I ran warlock at first but had 2 quests for 60 Gold each involving paladin so I threw something together that seems unbeatable. Pretty sure Paladin has the better cards for this brawl. I have gone 10-0 with the deck and well over half were Warlock opponents.

[KingZog3]

Warlock seems way better then other classes. I run all the stuff to kill my own minions, and sacrificial pact. People are generally not playing the brawl well so far, with Paladins just playing minions, and Priests playing buffs on gifts that won't attack this turn.

[popsofctown]

I buffed a gift that can't attack yet too.  Summoning sickness is kinda subtly animated in Hearthstone. 

[KingZog3]

I buffed a gift that can't attack yet too.  Summoning sickness is kinda subtly animated in Hearthstone.

Oh I've done it too. More than once with Abusive seargent. But turn 3 velens onto your only minion that just flew onto your board, I mean, that's a hard mistake to make more than once.

[pingpongsam]

Warlock seems way better then other classes. I run all the stuff to kill my own minions, and sacrificial pact. People are generally not playing the brawl well so far, with Paladins just playing minions, and Priests playing buffs on gifts that won't attack this turn.

Funny there are very few minions in my Paladin deck. I mean the good stuff comes from the gifts. The deck is a means to acquire the gifts. Really the strategy is to deprive your opponent of the opportunity to acquire gifts on his turn. The rest works out on its own when you do this.

[qmech]

Warlock seems way better then other classes. I run all the stuff to kill my own minions, and sacrificial pact. People are generally not playing the brawl well so far, with Paladins just playing minions, and Priests playing buffs on gifts that won't attack this turn.

Funny there are very few minions in my Paladin deck. I mean the good stuff comes from the gifts. The deck is a means to acquire the gifts. Really the strategy is to deprive your opponent of the opportunity to acquire gifts on his turn. The rest works out on its own when you do this.

Fine, I'll bite: what are you playing?

[pingpongsam]

Blessing of Might 2
Humility 2
Sacred trial 2
Abusive sargeant 1
Equality 2
Annoy o tron 1
Doomsayer 1
Nerubian Egg 2
Shielded mini bot 2
Sword of Justice 1
Muster 1
Seal of Champions 2
Aldor peacekeeper 1
Scarlett purifier 1 (should probably make this 2 and give up a minibot or keeper of uldman, these are super effective when played right)
True silver 1 (2 would be okay here too, maybe give up sword of justice)
Blessing of Kings 1 (2 would be okay here too)
Consecration 2 (could just use 1 if you want not as amazing in this format)
Hammer of Wrath 1
Keeper of Uldaman 2 (negotiable, really just playing them for the experience but get good mileage out of them)
Avenging Wrath 1 (you will get more as gifts)
Hogger (recent pack opened, great in this format for spewing taunts)

[pingpongsam]

I dunno, I got a double Rogue daily and threw together a Rogue deck and went on a ridiculous win streak too so I'm starting to think maybe the majority of people just don't know how to play this format well.

[Kirian]

I really would have preferred this week's Brawl to have been "flip a coin."  I would have gotten through my "Win 5 Brawls" quest in just as many games, but without the lack of actual interesting gameplay.

[Grujah]

I really would have preferred this week's Brawl to have been "flip a coin."  I would have gotten through my "Win 5 Brawls" quest in just as many games, but without the lack of actual interesting gameplay.

Amen.
For me even the 1 win for pack was a nightmare.

[KingZog3]

I really would have preferred this week's Brawl to have been "flip a coin."  I would have gotten through my "Win 5 Brawls" quest in just as many games, but without the lack of actual interesting gameplay.

Amen.
For me even the 1 win for pack was a nightmare.

This is the second time they have this brawl. Eh. Some people like randomness.

[KingZog3]

On second thought, screw this game mode. I just got Pyro blast, fireball, fireball on me.

[ycz6]

I really would have preferred this week's Brawl to have been "flip a coin."  I would have gotten through my "Win 5 Brawls" quest in just as many games, but without the lack of actual interesting gameplay.

Why not just get a different quest?

[KingZog3]

I really would have preferred this week's Brawl to have been "flip a coin."  I would have gotten through my "Win 5 Brawls" quest in just as many games, but without the lack of actual interesting gameplay.

Why not just get a different quest?

Its a 50 gold quest. Chances are you get a 40 gold quest instead. Or he already changed a different quest today.

[markusin]

I really would have preferred this week's Brawl to have been "flip a coin."  I would have gotten through my "Win 5 Brawls" quest in just as many games, but without the lack of actual interesting gameplay.

Why not just get a different quest?

Its a 50 gold quest. Chances are you get a 40 gold quest instead. Or he already changed a different quest today.

Isn't it a 60 gold quest?

[Grujah]

Pretty sure it's 50.

[markusin]

Pretty sure it's 50.

From http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Tavern_Brawl in the notes section (Rewards and Quests):

There is one Brawl-specific quest, Everybody! Get in here!, which awards 60 gold for winning 5 Tavern Brawls.

For the amount of effort needed to complete that quest, it better be 60 gold.

[werothegreat]

It would have been nice if they'd thrown in some LoE boss powers for this one.

[Co0kieL0rd]

It would have been nice if they'd thrown in some LoE boss powers for this one.

Yeah I am pretty disappointed they missed that opportunity.

[Kirian]

Baron Rivendare + Explorer's Hat =

[werothegreat]

I really think the Deathrattle bonus is hands down the best in this one, unless you're playing an all-spell Mage.

[Kirian]

I really think the Deathrattle bonus is hands down the best in this one, unless you're playing an all-spell Mage.

I got smacked down by an Entomb priest using spell bonus.  Velen's Chosen, Inner Fire, PWS on a Northshire Cleric... then Entomb on both my taunts.  Brutal.

[Jorbles]

I tried Murloc Paladin because I had a quest and though I did get my win on the 2nd try deathrattle seemed far stronger.

Has anyone tried a Battlecry deck?

[markusin]

I tried Murloc Paladin because I had a quest and though I did get my win on the 2nd try deathrattle seemed far stronger.

Has anyone tried a Battlecry deck?

Yeah I tried the Battlecry deck with Dragon Priest. It beat Murloc Secret Paladin. Wouldn't you know it, the tinyfins are a serious nerf to Anyfin Can Happen.

What deck is really good at exploiting deathrattle cards?

[Jorbles]

I saw people running Nax era Hunter deathrattle decks and it seemed pretty good.

[Kirian]

I saw people running Nax era Hunter deathrattle decks and it seemed pretty good.

That's kind of what I'm running.  Webspinner, Mad Scientist, Belcher, Highmane, Skitterer, Loot Hoarder, plus some fun with Explorer's Hat and Feign Death.

[Kirian]

...and I just now realized that Savannah Highmane is a reference to Lion King.

[markusin]

...and I just now realized that Savannah Highmane is a reference to Lion King.

Maybe? It's fact that lions and hyenas are rivals in real life and constantly fight each other. It makes perfect sense for a lion carcass to be feasted upon by hyenas.

[ashersky]

I tried Murloc Paladin because I had a quest and though I did get my win on the 2nd try deathrattle seemed far stronger.

Has anyone tried a Battlecry deck?

I made a Dragon Warrior battle cry deck -- abusive Sargent, all the neutral dragons, Alex's champion, Arathi weapon smith are the notables.  Plus the usual axe, execute, WW, bash, etc.

Got my 5 warrior wins quest done in 7 brawls.

[blueblimp]

Mill Rogue appears strong. It can just play normally but effectively starting at 60+ life instead of 30. I guess I'll need to give it a try since I've lost to it with two different decks and didn't feel like there was much I could do. (Although I assume it would still lose if it failed to draw Coldlight Oracle for long enough.)

So far I'm a bit underwhelmed by this brawl as the successful decks seem to be basically the same as normal constructed decks.

[Jorbles]

I beat an all spell Warrior deck last night. That was the most painful deck to beat. I think I must have done over a hundred damage to the enemy hero by the time the game ended. Wish I'd had the beat down quest.

[Awaclus]

I just built a pretty normal Control Warrior list with slightly more spells than usual. It seemed to work pretty well, I had the win 5 Brawls quest and the only games I lost were against a Druid who had the OTK and a face Hunter who was just too fast against my bad opening hand.

[Jorbles]

Yeah, I think the opponent I was playing against had too many spells and not enough win conditions. All he could do was remove almost everything I played while I gradually wore him down. He had a Ragnaros, but after I removed it I didn't see any other big bodies.

[pingpongsam]

Yeah, I think the opponent I was playing against had too many spells and not enough win conditions. All he could do was remove almost everything I played while I gradually wore him down. He had a Ragnaros, but after I removed it I didn't see any other big bodies.

I played something similar. The spells are great at keeping alive and removing my threats but he had no return threats.

[ashersky]

Dragon Warrior continues to be strong.

[werothegreat]

Yeah, I think the opponent I was playing against had too many spells and not enough win conditions. All he could do was remove almost everything I played while I gradually wore him down. He had a Ragnaros, but after I removed it I didn't see any other big bodies.

I played something similar. The spells are great at keeping alive and removing my threats but he had no return threats.

That's why you play Mage and run Unstable Portal, Mirror Entity, Duplicate, Mad Scientist, Ethereal Conjurer... hell, maybe even Spellslinger.  Mage has a lot of minion-spell mix options.

[pingpongsam]

Yeah, the Mages running the spell bonus keep beating me up and taking my lunch money.

[werothegreat]

God damn this one was hard.  At least the first time around you got a pack just for playing.

[KingZog3]

God damn this one was hard.  At least the first time around you got a pack just for playing.

Yeah it took me a few games to get the pack. I like that they included new cards, but my Mage partners keep using the Arcane Blasts at 4dmg. If you wait for even 1 jungle moonkin it's so much more amazing. Or Mirror Entity into Jungle Moonkin. The synergy is once again very cool in this brawl, but the coop thing is weird with random terrible players. Your best bet is to wait a few days. Usually by then only people who know what they are doing are playing the brawl.

[ashersky]

God damn this one was hard.  At least the first time around you got a pack just for playing.

Yeah it took me a few games to get the pack. I like that they included new cards, but my Mage partners keep using the Arcane Blasts at 4dmg. If you wait for even 1 jungle moonkin it's so much more amazing. Or Mirror Entity into Jungle Moonkin. The synergy is once again very cool in this brawl, but the coop thing is weird with random terrible players. Your best bet is to wait a few days. Usually by then only people who know what they are doing are playing the brawl.

Won first time as mage.  New cards, same strategy.  Build you board, never attack, wait until you can do a huge amount of damage per turn, keep each other healed.

Mirror Entity should be used on Lorewalker Cho, then give each other Healing Touches, Arcane Blasts, and maybe Wild Growth.  Once we had 8 dmg Arcane Blasts, it was pretty easy.  Druid is token, so use VT + Cenarius + Savage Roar for a big turn, Mage will eventually fill hand with Fireballs, Torches, and maybe a Pyroblast if needed.

It's fun once, but I can't see myself playing it again.

[pingpongsam]

Won both time I played. Both time I was the Druid. The real problem with this brawl is the limitation of only 2 classes. More interesting would be various pairs of classes. More challenging would be the same pre-built decks but the players pick a class before entering. As it is, it seems stupidly easy unless your cooperator is an idiot.

[Haddock]

Won both time I played. Both time I was the Druid. The real problem with this brawl is the limitation of only 2 classes. More interesting would be various pairs of classes. More challenging would be the same pre-built decks but the players pick a class before entering. As it is, it seems stupidly easy unless your cooperator is an idiot.

Meh.  I do like it but I think you've been lucky, there's a lot of variance.

I played druid twice and drew no heal through either game while getting double zapped in the face constantly.  The bomb salvos seemed to like my face too.  I really don't think the druid deck has enough heals in it.

[werothegreat]

Well, I got a Malygos out of my pack!  I want to slide him into my Mage deck and see what shenanigans I can perpetrate...

[KingZog3]

Well, I got a Malygos out of my pack!  I want to slide him into my Mage deck and see what shenanigans I can perpetrate...

Malygos has seen play in fringe decks and he's a lot of fun. I recommend keeping him, even if he isn't the greatest legend. It's too satisfying when you pull of a crazy turn with him

[Jorbles]

Yeah, Malygos + Thaurissian can do really silly things in lots of decks.

[werothegreat]

Yeah, Malygos + Thaurissian can do really silly things in lots of decks.

Thaurissan enables:

Malygos, 2x Frostbolt, 2x Ice Lance OTK
Malygos, 2x Kobold Geomancer, 2x Arcane Blast OTK
Malygos, 2x Quick Shot, 2x Arcane Shot OTK
Malygos, 2x Lightning Bolt, 2x Crackle OTK
Malygos, 2x Mind Blast, 2x Holy Smite OTK
Malygos, 2x Sinister Strike, 2x Eviscerate OTK
Malygos, 2x Kobold Geomancer, 2x Living Roots, 2x Moonfire OTK
Malygos, 2x Darkbomb, 2x Soulfire OTK (if the first Soulfire doesn't discard the second)

The only classes it doesn't work with are Paladin and Warrior.

[KingZog3]

Don't forget Aviana, Malygos, Innervate, Faceless, Faceless, Moonfire, Moonfire OTK

[qmech]

Thaurissan enables:
Malygos, 2x Kobold Geomancer, 2x Arcane Blast OTK

Sadly Arcane Blast can't go face.

[werothegreat]

Thaurissan enables:
Malygos, 2x Kobold Geomancer, 2x Arcane Blast OTK

Sadly Arcane Blast can't go face.

Wait, what?  Ugh that's stupid.  One thing I've never understood is why Wrath can't go face.

[Haddock]

Wait, what?  Ugh that's stupid.  One thing I've never understood is why Wrath can't go face.

I assume that this was a decision made fairly early on when attempting to balance classes.  If it can go face as well as potentially draw it becomes strictly better than similarly priced removal for other classes (eg. Shiv).

[Grujah]

I've recently crafted a Malygos (and cast it 1 times so far), if that helps at all. I do have lot of extra dust lying around tho (around 5000 atm), so that is a thing to consider too.

But Malygos is competative, gets a good deck every once in a while, and is super fun.

[markusin]

Well, I got a Malygos out of my pack!  I want to slide him into my Mage deck and see what shenanigans I can perpetrate...

I got a Captain Greenskin in my pack. Cool. I also got my first Earth Elemental in it.

[ycz6]

Wait, what?  Ugh that's stupid.  One thing I've never understood is why Wrath can't go face.

I assume that this was a decision made fairly early on when attempting to balance classes.  If it can go face as well as potentially draw it becomes strictly better than similarly priced removal for other classes (eg. Shiv).

This seems to be backed up by the fact that Wrath could target face at one point during closed beta: http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Wrath#Patch_changes

[werothegreat]

No, opponent, Reno Jackson doesn't do anything in this Tavern Brawl.

[Grujah]

I just hhad priest vs warriot game end cuz we broke the 50 turn limit. i waas in shadowform  and he at 1 when it happened

[Kirian]

No, opponent, Reno Jackson doesn't do anything in this Tavern Brawl.

Yeah, I made that mistake, been playing too much Renolock.

[werothegreat]

I just hhad priest vs warriot game end cuz we broke the 50 turn limit. i waas in shadowform  and he at 1 when it happened

Well, it's almost impossible to go into fatigue, unless one of finds a Jeeves or something.

[blueblimp]

I wish they'd tune down how often legendaries are offered in this brawl. Playing against multi-Tirion Paladins is not fun times.

[werothegreat]

I wish they'd tune down how often legendaries are offered in this brawl. Playing against multi-Tirion Paladins is not fun times.

My opponents keep getting Rafaams.  It's irksome.

[Kirian]

I have no idea what the hell I'm doing with this one.  Though having my opponent play Tirion on T2 probably didn't help me determine if my deck was useful.

[Awaclus]

I just put together a Miracle Rogue (with Alexstrasza, North Sea Kraken and some damage spells as the win con since I don't have Malygos and the Leeroy thing obviously doesn't work here). Based on the first game I played, it seems absolutely broken, but dropping an Alexstrasza T1 was good times.

[pingpongsam]

Dark iron skulker, fan of knives, kvaldier raider, muklas champion, bunch of low cost spells, oops van cleef gglol. Mage burn is a nemesis and a crazy dread steed deck was impossible. Everything else I have laughed at, people just can't think this abstractedly.

[werothegreat]

I ran a Reno Rogue with all of my legendaries.  I actually managed to get a +29 heal against a Warrior.  It was very satisfying.

[Kirian]

I played against a Rogue who had mostly basic and cheap cards, and realized that anything that gives two minions for one is really nice, as are general buffs (Stormwind Champ, Mukla's Champ, even Raid Leader.)

[blueblimp]

There are so many OP things available to do in this brawl, that it isn't even possible to fit them all in one deck. It seems like your two basic flavors are crazy combo decks on the one hand (which run lots of card draw minions and some finisher), and decks that try to work around the stat restriction on the other hand (which run minions like Frostwolf Warlord, Questing Adventurer, etc.).

[werothegreat]

Onyxia is awesome.  Conversely, Arcane Explosion is also awesome.  I had one guy concede after I dropped a Turn 1 Dr. Boom.

[KingZog3]

Ancient of War becomes a 1/6 Taunt. Preeeeettty goood.

[ashersky]

Ancient of War becomes a 1/6 Taunt. Preeeeettty goood.

Are "Choose One" Druid cards also 1 mana?  that's helpful.  I was sad to see that stuff that drops from Shredders become 1/1 automatically.

I won on the first try with a Mage using mostly ping spells and big legendaries -- which seems to be the normal thing -- to work to Alex + Nightblade x2 + Kraken + any other ping minion for an easy OTK.  Not sure there are better minions for face damage battlecries, but that's what I was using.

[markusin]

The game I won, I stole a Kvaldir Raider with Sylvanas + Dread Infernal + Hero Power + Faceless on Raider with 5 mana. It seemed like the Faceless was bugged because it became a 5/5 Kvaldir Raider after copying a 5/4 Raider (damaged by 1).

[KingZog3]

Ancient of War becomes a 1/6 Taunt. Preeeeettty goood.

Are "Choose One" Druid cards also 1 mana?  that's helpful.  I was sad to see that stuff that drops from Shredders become 1/1 automatically.

I didn't test all the Choose One, but I think Ancient of War is the only one that will work because it's a buff, not a transform.

[Awaclus]

I just put together a Miracle Rogue (with Alexstrasza, North Sea Kraken and some damage spells as the win con since I don't have Malygos and the Leeroy thing obviously doesn't work here). Based on the first game I played, it seems absolutely broken, but dropping an Alexstrasza T1 was good times.

By the way, here's the list:

2 Backstab
2 Preparation
2 Shadowstep
2 Sinister Strike
2 Blade Flurry
2 Eviscerate
2 Shiv
2 Jeweled Scarab
2 Novice Engineer
1 Unstable Ghoul
2 Fan of Knives
2 Azure Drake
2 Dark Iron Skulker
2 Gadgetzan Auctioneer
1 Alexstrasza
2 North Sea Kraken

So far, the only reason why I've lost* was mulligan all cards (because none of them were Gadgetzan Auctioneer) -> proceed to not draw Gadgetzan Auctioneer for the rest of the game, and that was before I replaced a bunch of useless cards with the Novice Engineers and Azure Drakes. As long as you actually draw the Auctioneer, you can pretty reliably win on turn 5-7.

*EDIT: I used this to complete a 60 Gold Rogue quest, but didn't play any extra after that.

[blueblimp]

I'm currently running

1 Backstab
2 Preparation
2 Shadowstep
2 Sinister Strike
2 Eviscerate
2 Shiv
1 Bloodmage Thalnos
2 Novice Engineer
2 Fan of Knives
1 Brann Bronzebeard
2 Gnomish Inventor
1 Kezan Mystic
2 Tomb Pillager
2 Azure Drake
2 Dark Iron Skulker
2 Gadgetzan Auctioneer
1 Alexstrasza
1 Malygos

The Kezan Mystic is an experiment to tech vs Mage, because if they are a similar combo deck running Ice Block, it's the only way to win. The slot used to have Chromaggus but I find Chromaggus too much win-more when it comes to hand size, because he only works when you would have been drawing anyway--in fact I often have to avoid drawing with Chromaggus on board in order to not overdraw!

Looking at your list Awaclus, my thoughts are: I don't see what the Jeweled Scarab is for (I'd rather play Gnomish Inventor to draw from my specialized combo deck instead of random 3-cost cards), you probably want Brann Bronzebeard if you're running Krakens, and the Unstable Ghoul and Blade Flurries seem like overkill (I feel fine with just the 2 skulkers and 2 fans).

[Awaclus]

Looking at your list Awaclus, my thoughts are: I don't see what the Jeweled Scarab is for (I'd rather play Gnomish Inventor to draw from my specialized combo deck instead of random 3-cost cards), you probably want Brann Bronzebeard if you're running Krakens, and the Unstable Ghoul and Blade Flurries seem like overkill (I feel fine with just the 2 skulkers and 2 fans).

I definitely want Brann, the problem is that I don't have him. The Jeweled Scarab was supposed to give me tech when I needed it, but it didn't really work too well in practice.

[Jorbles]

This Brawl (Blingtrong Brawl). I tried Rogue for all the weapon buffs and blade flurries and pirates, it was okay. Mage seems better to freeze your opponent constantly.

[Kirian]

Harrison Jones is fun with this brawl.  So is Mage plus lots of freeze to face.

Oh, and Shield Slam since you start with 10 armor.

[blueblimp]

Is this the first time there have been two deck-building brawls in a row?

Anyway this one hasn't been too exciting so far. Just lost a game because of getting cursed blade, after having had charged hammer earlier so I can't hero power to replace it, and that doesn't tempt me to play more.

The meta might be interesting though. So far I've just tried smashing face and that kinda works but not great.

[Jorbles]

Yeah, I lost a game because I got a Poisoned Blade. Hadn't thought of Charged Hammer as being bad this mode, but it is if you get it early.

All other weapons aren't as bad as you can replace them if you need to.

[blueblimp]

I think Charged Hammer is pretty good, just not if you draw Cursed Blade later. The blingtron hero power usually just replaces a 2/2 with a 2/2, so doing 2 targeted damage is nice instead. Also, the 2/4 body is especially good if you're running weapon buffs.

[chairs]

RNGesus hates me. Two games, the first had an opponent get longbow into longbow into doom hammer.

The second had me chain cursed blades against freeze mage

[Grujah]

3 games, I got 4 cursed blades (at least one in each).

Frak this brawl.

[werothegreat]

I made a Druid with a Claw and a Bite and 2 Savage Roars.  Mixed results.  The key is waiting for your opponent to get Cursed Blade.

[Awaclus]

I made a Druid with a Claw and a Bite and 2 Savage Roars.  Mixed results.  The key is waiting for your opponent to get Cursed Blade.

I just made a regular Druid and won my first game (after trying out Mech Shaman which didn't work out for obvious reasons).

[pingpongsam]

Doesn't matter too much what you make your deck out of so long as it is singles with Reno. Some draw helps to insure you get him, lots of taunts are good and of course the weapons manipulators.

[KingZog3]

Some of the pirates are obvious includes, but full pirate decks didn't seem that great. Rogue can take advantage if weapons really well though, so I think it's one of te better classes.

[Jorbles]

Some of the pirates are obvious includes, but full pirate decks didn't seem that great. Rogue can take advantage if weapons really well though, so I think it's one of te better classes.

Dread Corsair is really the only amazing Pirate in this mode. If you're running Oil then Southsea Deckhands are really good too.

[werothegreat]

And we're back to the Dominion brawl!  Had fun with a Baron Rivendare/Ancestral Spirit Shaman.  Got a whole bunch of Haunted Creepers and Recruiters.

[Grujah]

Have 2 Fjolas. GG.

[markusin]

Have 2 Fjolas. GG.

Draft Questing Adventurer. GG.

[pingpongsam]

Hobgoblin, GG.

[ashersky]

This brawl is annoying in that it can take a long time.

I finally won with a Volcanic Lumberer on T5.

[Jorbles]

I got my win pretty easily by drafting a Dancing Swords, opponent conceded when I played the 3rd one.

[pingpongsam]

Any card that creates cards is pretty powerful. Most notably Forgotten Torch, wow. Also, Piloted Shredder, Confessor Paletress, Ethereal Conjurer, etc.

[pingpongsam]

Had a game last night where my Sylvanas stole his Antonidas. He finally got play Antonidas one more time but I never lost mine and had a deck of endless fireballs.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Just tried Tavern Brawl for the first time yesterday. The "build your deck as you go" mechanic is really fun. I hope they have that often.

[KingZog3]

Just tried Tavern Brawl for the first time yesterday. The "build your deck as you go" mechanic is really fun. I hope they have that often.

This was the second time they had this specific brawl. Many of the brawls are wildly different, some with preset decks, other that let you make your own deck, some that just let you pick a class. Plus they make new ones that we haven't seen yet. But you'll eventually see some of the older ones too.

[blueblimp]

The deckbuilding brawl might be fun if it weren't so painfully slow. It takes like 20+ minutes just to finish a game. The balance is also atrocious and most cards are bad, so it often comes down to who discovers a broken card first.

It's not far off being fun, though. It could work with some tweaks.

[Kirian]

The deckbuilding brawl might be fun if it weren't so painfully slow. It takes like 20+ minutes just to finish a game. The balance is also atrocious and most cards are bad, so it often comes down to who discovers a broken card first.

It's not far off being fun, though. It could work with some tweaks.

I wonder if it could be balanced partially by always offering you at least one card on curve.

[ashersky]

New Brawl is fun.

Abusing Priest Heal minions appears to be strong.  Giant Lightwardens, card draw with Clerics, Lightwells that never die...

[blueblimp]

I played a couple games with freeze mage in the new brawl. It plays almost exactly the same as freeze mage in ranked. Yawn?

[qmech]

I played a few games with Priest and Rogue for quests, mostly playing imbalanced offensive minions like Ice and Magma Rager, with a Raid Leader finisher.  That beats people playing something like Face Hunter with Leper Gnomes, but loses to the two stronger decks I want to try later: Murloc Shaman, which is even faster and more aggressive than you are, and "control" Mages that can ping your Ragers, have Mana Wyrms, Apprentices, Flamewakers and Animated Armors sitting on the board whilst they kill everything you play with spells.  The Sheep/Doomsayer route probably works too.

One thing to watch out for is that you can easily fill your board and lock yourself out from playing anything.

[blueblimp]

I don't theoretically see why it makes sense to play minion-oriented decks at all, though. The value of your minions is reduced because they can't choose what to attack. The same is true of weapons. So the natural adaptation is to use a deck that isn't reliant on minions or weapons, namely Freeze Mage.

[Awaclus]

Could we start a custom of telling what the current brawl is whenever we start talking about a new brawl? It's difficult to follow older discussions without this.

[Grujah]

They cant be attacked, either, and some minions thrive in those situations.

[Grujah]

Could we start a custom of telling what the current brawl is whenever we start talking about a new brawl? It's difficult to follow older discussions without this.

Your face has taunt.

[Grujah]

And how they resisted the urge to call it "ME NO TRADE ME GO FACE" is beyond me.

Relevant:

[pingpongsam]

I had a dream so I will try it today. Key cards are alarmobot and kel thuzad and ragnaros and Bol ram shield. I need a Rogue daily so I'm thinking a huge legendary oil variant. Sylvanas and thaurisan and some draw cards. If the bots die though it will be too slow. Recently had a super arena run with alarmobot being the star player.

[KingZog3]

I played a bunch of flamewaker mage and it dominated yesterday, even the heal priests. I made some changes for the brawl, like fallen hero and stuff. Anything with effects that need to be removed right away are good, because they can't be removed with minions, and if you draw bad as a control deck you lose.

[Awaclus]

I just built a pretty standard Mech Shaman. It's been a while since the last time I had a turn 4 lethal.

[markusin]

I played a bunch of flamewaker mage and it dominated yesterday, even the heal priests. I made some changes for the brawl, like fallen hero and stuff. Anything with effects that need to be removed right away are good, because they can't be removed with minions, and if you draw bad as a control deck you lose.

I basically did something similar. This brawl makes it so you can skip over Mirror Image and other taunts. I find Duplicate is good here because minion removal is limited to spells. In general, this makes it harder to play around Duplicate because your opponent will want to prioritize killing your key minions with their one-time spells.

I figure this brawl is really good for minions with strong effects that require them to survive.

First try, I ended up beating a Freeze Mage with Antonidas + duplicated Sorceror's Apprentices (which costed 0 thanks to a double proc of Thaurissan).

[Titandrake]

I basically made a Token Druid that looked to flood the board and win through Power of the Wild and Savage Roar. It won the first game, so it's at least somewhat reasonable?

[KingZog3]

There's a surprising amount of interesting things to do in this brawl, which seemed at first like an aggro-fest. It kind of is, but many things I think can beat pure aggro.

[Kirian]

I have no idea what to do with this brawl.  Other than lose, that is...

[werothegreat]

I have no idea what to do with this brawl.  Other than lose, that is...

Just throw in a bunch of Leper Gnomes and Magma Ragers and other cheap, high-attack minions.  And maybe some removal.

[Titandrake]

My opponent just played a Patron deck. Summoned Grim Patrons don't get charge, but getting a free Warsong for Frothing Berzerkers make up for it.

The other neat thing I've seen so far is that Ancient Watchers come with free taunt.

[KingZog3]

Basically putting owls, ragers, eerie statues, other silences, and you should be ok. Rogue is fun for the Pit Snakes. Cobras are nice removal. Drakonid Crushers are nice too, if you play aggressively.

For Awaclus: All your minions have charge and taunt when you play them. It was you that asked we say the brawl right?

[Titandrake]

Basically putting owls, ragers, eerie statues, other silences, and you should be ok. Rogue is fun for the Pit Snakes. Cobras are nice removal. Drakonid Crushers are nice too, if you play aggressively.

For Awaclus: All your minions have charge and taunt when you play them. It was you that asked we say the brawl right?

I don't know how consistent it is, but Edwin -> hit for 2 -> Coin -> Shadowstep -> Edwin -> hit for 8 and leave 8/8 Taunt on board turn 3 was pretty painful.

[KingZog3]

Basically putting owls, ragers, eerie statues, other silences, and you should be ok. Rogue is fun for the Pit Snakes. Cobras are nice removal. Drakonid Crushers are nice too, if you play aggressively.

For Awaclus: All your minions have charge and taunt when you play them. It was you that asked we say the brawl right?

I don't know how consistent it is, but Edwin -> hit for 2 -> Coin -> Shadowstep -> Edwin -> hit for 8 and leave 8/8 Taunt on board turn 3 was pretty painful.

I don't have edwin, but he seems strong in an aggressive deck with loot hoarders to draw and stuff.

[markusin]

My opponent just played a Patron deck. Summoned Grim Patrons don't get charge, but getting a free Warsong for Frothing Berzerkers make up for it.

The other neat thing I've seen so far is that Ancient Watchers come with free taunt.

Thing is everything has taunt, so those Ancient watchers aren't protecting any of your minions. I thought the charge also worked on summoned minions and so went with Paladin and stuff like Muster For Battle. I still won.

Heh, Keeper of Uldaman can clear any Minion on the board without a deathrattle drop.

[XerxesPraelor]

I've been playing Windfury Shaman - Rockbiter Weapon + Dust Devil is 2 mana for reach of 12, which is pretty fun to do.

[ashersky]

Ramp Druid works for getting big minions on the board early.

I also played Taunt Warrior using Bolster for a win.

[pingpongsam]

Haven't lost yet. Tried totally random seems like a good idea stuff. All Brawl has taught me is that 95% of Hearthstone players don't actually know how to play anything outside of net decking. Even the strong brawl decks are obvious net decks.

[Kirian]

Haven't lost yet. Tried totally random seems like a good idea stuff. All Brawl has taught me is that 95% of Hearthstone players don't actually know how to play anything outside of net decking. Even the strong brawl decks are obvious net decks.

[Grujah]

You can play Molten/Shadowstep/Panda combo,

or what I did, windfury Shaman. Dust Devil and Dunemaul Shaman both become great, Dunemaul can even evade taunt.

[Jorbles]

or what I did, windfury Shaman. Dust Devil and Dunemaul Shaman both become great, Dunemaul can even evade taunt.

This is what I did too! I played a Mirror Match. Seems popular.

I hadn't thought of the Rogue Shadow Step combos, but that seems pretty good too.

[qmech]

http://www.twitch.tv/l0rinda/v/50478168

[LibraryAdventurer]

Hard to tell what 'random fates' means before you play and find out, but it's fun. My opponent got Arch Thief-Raf from one of the unstable portals (from a fate). He played the spell that does 10 damage to random enemies (which seems like the weakest option). Then I played convert to get a copy of his Arch-Thief Raf. He resigned.

[Awaclus]

Hard to tell what 'random fates' means before you play and find out

What does it mean?

[LibraryAdventurer]

On your first turn each player chooses a 'fate' which applies to both players. I've only played two brawl games so far, but I'm guessing the initial options are the same:
- shuffle four unstable portals into each players deck
- when a minion dies, its owner gets a coin
- when a minion dies, its owner gets a banana
- spells cost 1 less this game.
EDIT: These choices are the not the same every game.

Then late in the game, another fate is chosen by one player with different options. Both games so far, it was chosen by my opponent, maybe it's the player with the lower health?  I'm sure sure exactly how that works yet...

[Jorbles]

The ones I saw were initially:
-Shuffle 10 unstable portals into each players deck
-When a minion dies its owner gets a coin (chosen by my opponent)
-When a minion dies its owner gets a banana
-Spells cost 1 less all game
-At the start of each players turn they gain 2 armour (offered to me, second player)

Then in mid game you get the offer of a new fate. I think if your health drops below 15. The ones I saw were:
-Turn all minions into Tinyfins. (which I chose and used it to wipe my opponents board with a swipe, it was absolutely game wrecking for him, he had a full board)
-When a minion dies a random card in its owners hand's cost is changed to zero (which my opponent chose, I think his choices were bad)
-Each player gains 3 Unstable Portals to hand
-two other things which I forget.

It's a neat Brawl so far though I don't totally understand it.

[KingZog3]

There are more than 4 options. I think there are 6 for each phase of choosing Fates. I'm not sure of strategies because so many cards are only good without certain fates being picked, and you can't even be sure you'll get the fate you want because there are more than 4. It leads me to believe that there is either a really complex meta that won't be established within a week, or it's more or less random and you need to adapt to what your opponent picks and plays.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Yeah, I was thinking at first that those were the only four options, so I picked up a couple summoning minions (dragonling mechanic) and minions that are better when buffed (raging warren), and then the banana option which I was hoping for wasn't on the list that game. Instead my opponent chose a fate where each player gained two armor at the start of every turn and I ended up resigning when I ran out of cards in my deck.

[pingpongsam]

The mid game fates stack onto the initial fates, that is, they do not supplant them. Mage is the obvious hero choice imho.

[Jorbles]

Theory from elsewhere on the internet:

Fates or similar cards are going to be one of the major new mechanics of the upcoming expansion.

[LibraryAdventurer]

The mid game fates stack onto the initial fates, that is, they do not supplant them. Mage is the obvious hero choice imho.

I play whatever class my daily quest is for (unless I don't have a quest that names a class), so I've been using priest and I'm 3-2 today.

EDIT: It's fun except when someone chooses the +2 armor each turn option. That makes the game last way too long.

[Jorbles]

Yeah, I did a Ramp Druid and Coins + Spells was some crazy ramping.

[qmech]

Here's a complete list.  The trigger for the second fate is your hero dropping to 20 health.  There's a lot of spell synergy, so Tempo Mage is pretty good.

One thing to notice is that the second round of Dire Fates has the Murloc option which is essentially a board clear, so be aware of the possibility of losing your minions as you drop your opponent to 20.

[Co0kieL0rd]

I love this brawl. Finally something that creates so much variety and strategic options that any kind of deck can be good here. I also like that you don't always get the same fate options so you have to adapt to what the game provides as well as what your opponent chooses.

I'm having fun with a mill rogue deck that works extremely well with fates like coin, armor or bananas. Also, the murloc option mid-game is amazing. This brawl allows for control decks to really shine and those are my favorite kind of deck.

[qmech]

I'm having fun with a mill rogue deck that works extremely well with fates like coin, armor or bananas. Also, the murloc option mid-game is amazing. This brawl allows for control decks to really shine and those are my favorite kind of deck.

Mill's a good spot: I was milling people (including myself) accidentally with Tempo Mage anyway, and you can take advantage of other people angling for the spell synergy fates.  Might Portals be a problem?

[Co0kieL0rd]

I'm having fun with a mill rogue deck that works extremely well with fates like coin, armor or bananas. Also, the murloc option mid-game is amazing. This brawl allows for control decks to really shine and those are my favorite kind of deck.

Mill's a good spot: I was milling people (including myself) accidentally with Tempo Mage anyway, and you can take advantage of other people angling for the spell synergy fates.  Might Portals be a problem?

Portals are probably a problem for mill decks but so far I didn't face any opponent who chose portals while I was playing mill. If somebody does I'll probably try to delay the milling until late game and just hope for good portals until then but that of course makes it harder for any control deck to win.

[werothegreat]

I'm having fun with a mill rogue deck that works extremely well with fates like coin, armor or bananas. Also, the murloc option mid-game is amazing. This brawl allows for control decks to really shine and those are my favorite kind of deck.

Mill's a good spot: I was milling people (including myself) accidentally with Tempo Mage anyway, and you can take advantage of other people angling for the spell synergy fates.  Might Portals be a problem?

Portals are probably a problem for mill decks but so far I didn't face any opponent who chose portals while I was playing mill. If somebody does I'll probably try to delay the milling until late game and just hope for good portals until then but that of course makes it harder for any control deck to win.

When both players choose the Coin deathrattle, it gets pretty silly.  Playing 5 coins per turn just to keep your hand from getting too full.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Portals are probably a problem for mill decks but so far I didn't face any opponent who chose portals while I was playing mill. If somebody does I'll probably try to delay the milling until late game and just hope for good portals until then but that of course makes it harder for any control deck to win.

When both players choose the Coin deathrattle, it gets pretty silly.  Playing 5 coins per turn just to keep your hand from getting too full.

Yeah, what we really need here is a dire fate that makes you be able to hold 4 or 5 more cards in your hand.  In my last game, both players chose bananas.

[Haddock]

Ugh, Coinflip brawl again.

[markusin]

Ugh, Coinflip brawl again.

It's the Crossroads(random deck) Brawl where the cost of cards in hand is reduced randomly.

It took awhile for me to win and get my pack...then I had to win 4 more for the 5 TB win quest. I was able to do my 5 wins with Druid quest at the same time though.

[pingpongsam]

The only reconciliation here is that I've got the win 5 brawls daily going on. I definitely prefer rogue for this one. Nothing like getting multiple van cleefs.

[markusin]

The only reconciliation here is that I've got the win 5 brawls daily going on. I definitely prefer rogue for this one. Nothing like getting multiple van cleefs.

Will Van Cleef really save you from a T1 Clockwork or Sea Giant like I had to face?

Druid is kinda cool here with its big minions and Avianna, but the poor removal options of Druid forces them to get ahead early like you'd expect from a typical Ramp Druid.

[ashersky]

It is luck, but it is fun.  T1 Clockwork Giant + Cult Master is hilarious.  My opponent just resigns and we queue up again.  No biggie, clears out quests fast.

[KingZog3]

I seriously hate this brawl. I wish they'd stop bringing it back. Random can be fun sometimes, like the webspinners or portals, but this is just too crazy and you don't get cool moments. You either get roflstomped or you win just as unfairly. I lose like 7 games in a row, and my win for the pack as coining an obsidian destroyer turn one and my opponent concedes.

[LibraryAdventurer]

I don't like this one either.
The brawl I liked best was the one I only had one day to play because I had just unlocked Tavern Brawl. (It was the last one where you built as deck as you played.)

[KingZog3]

I don't like this one either.
The brawl I liked best was the one I only had one day to play because I had just unlocked Tavern Brawl. (It was the last one where you built as deck as you played.)

That is a good brawl. There's luck, but you get cool moments, and there is also skill. This one is just awful, even for just completing quests.

[Haddock]

Ugh, Coinflip brawl again.

It's the Crossroads(random deck) Brawl where the cost of cards in hand is reduced randomly.

Like I said, the coinflip brawl

I've just played once this time to get the pack.  Managed to open turn 1:   mountain giant + Soot Spewer + Coin + Dragonhawk Rider.  Instant concession.

[markusin]

Ugh, Coinflip brawl again.

It's the Crossroads(random deck) Brawl where the cost of cards in hand is reduced randomly.

Like I said, the coinflip brawl

I've just played once this time to get the pack.  Managed to open turn 1:   mountain giant + Soot Spewer + Coin + Dragonhawk Rider.  Instant concession.

Awaclus asked us to get in the habit of summarizing the rules of any week's Brawl brought up for the first time. There are many "Coinflip" Brawls.

[blueblimp]

Random can be fun sometimes, like the webspinners or portals, but this is just too crazy and you don't get cool moments.

Interesting, because I think exactly the opposite. The webspinner brawl is dull and boring, basically just drawing terrible beasts until someone plays a highmane and wins. In this brawl (the reduced-cost random cards), both players are making ridiculous strong plays every turn, and the game can easily swing back and forth.

[pingpongsam]

Random can be fun sometimes, like the webspinners or portals, but this is just too crazy and you don't get cool moments.

Interesting, because I think exactly the opposite. The webspinner brawl is dull and boring, basically just drawing terrible beasts until someone plays a highmane and wins. In this brawl (the reduced-cost random cards), both players are making ridiculous strong plays every turn, and the game can easily swing back and forth.

The main thing in this Brawl is to mulligan for high mana cards. The overwhelming losses I see usually happen to the guy putting out typical curve minions in the early game. Once you get past the 4th or 5th turn both players are largely normalized to luck of the draw.

[LibraryAdventurer]

This brawl is "Whenever you play a minion, you get a random spell of the same cost in your hand for free." So the first spell I get after playing a minion is one that buffs a friendly beast (ironbeak owl is the only beast in my deck). You keep getting spells that don't really apply to your class and then they take up space in your hand. It's annoying to have my hand get too full, especially when at least two of the cards in my hand are ones that I can't play at all.
other than that, it's fun.

[werothegreat]

Time to pull out Summoning Stone again. 

[pingpongsam]

Time to pull out Summoning Stone again. 

It's bugged, right? It summons based off the unmodified spell cost. I have it in my deck but haven't gotten to draw it yet. Haven't lost a brawl yet, either.

[Jorbles]

Lock and Load!

[LibraryAdventurer]

Just had a game where 4 trees of life were played (fully heals all characters). My opponent found the golden monkey (I've been wondering what it does. now I know.) At the end I committed suicide by playing sprint.

[KingZog3]

Just had a game where 4 trees of life were played (fully heals all characters). My opponent found the golden monkey (I've been wondering what it does. now I know.) At the end I committed suicide by playing sprint.

People have been doing tree of life > bolf > aucheni soulpriest, to insta kill everything except yourself, because Bolf takes the dmg for you.

[markusin]

Just had a game where 4 trees of life were played (fully heals all characters). My opponent found the golden monkey (I've been wondering what it does. now I know.) At the end I committed suicide by playing sprint.

People have been doing tree of life > bolf > aucheni soulpriest, to insta kill everything except yourself, because Bolf takes the dmg for you.

Just goes to show how even the most underwhelming of cards, like Bolf Ramshield, can have their moment of glory, especially in Tavern Brawl or adventures.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Just had a game where 4 trees of life were played (fully heals all characters). My opponent found the golden monkey (I've been wondering what it does. now I know.) At the end I committed suicide by playing sprint.

People have been doing tree of life > bolf > aucheni soulpriest, to insta kill everything except yourself, because Bolf takes the dmg for you.

What happens if you play that soulpriest and tree of life without Bolf?  Is it a draw? I've never seen a draw in Hearthstone.

[KingZog3]

Just had a game where 4 trees of life were played (fully heals all characters). My opponent found the golden monkey (I've been wondering what it does. now I know.) At the end I committed suicide by playing sprint.

People have been doing tree of life > bolf > aucheni soulpriest, to insta kill everything except yourself, because Bolf takes the dmg for you.

What happens if you play that soulpriest and tree of life without Bolf?  Is it a draw? I've never seen a draw in Hearthstone.

Yeah it's a draw. I've had a few draws. I can happene whenever both heros for a card simultaneously. Like hellfire or eye for an eye

[Awaclus]

Although draws just count as a loss for both players so there's no point in doing it.

[Watno]

I'm pretty sure draws count as nither a win or a loss.

[KingZog3]

Although draws just count as a loss for both players so there's no point in doing it.

No, a draw counts as a draw. If you draw in arena no one gets a win or a loss point. It's as if the game didn't happen.

[ycz6]

Yeah, you get the "Defeat" screen at the end but it effectively counts as a non-game for most purposes.

[Awaclus]

Cool, I didn't know that. I've only gotten it once (from Hellfire) and that was a casual game so I assumed the defeat screen meant that I lost.

Although, there is still no reason to do it in TB, only in Arena and Ranked.

[Watno]

Unless you consider not losing a game valuable on its own.

[Jorbles]

Unless you consider not losing a game valuable on its own.

In Tavern it's pretty meaningless, but in Arena or Ranked if you think there's a good chance you'll lose if you don't take the draw it's very worth it.

[Watno]

Well, winning a game in Tavern Brawl is quite maningless as well.

[Jorbles]

Well, winning a game in Tavern Brawl is quite maningless as well.

The first bonus pack per week + Quests + 3.333333 gold per win. It's not nothing.

[Haddock]

So this is KT versus Rafaam  Brawl.

Is anyone else discovering that KT is ludicrously OP?

[werothegreat]

So this is KT versus Rafaam  Brawl.

Is anyone else discovering that KT is ludicrously OP?

Quite.  Rafaam has neither early game nor the steam to go to fatigue.  Getting a cheaper Legendary to hand is not nearly as powerful as Resurrecting every turn.

[Grujah]

I got 3 or 4 times Raffam, KT 0 times. I won on my last try.

I hate brawls like these, they make no sense, you can't really have any coherent strategy - you don't really know about either decks, cards are randomly unbalanced, you can't really expect anything or play around anthing.(unless you dedicate time to it, and I am not going to do that on some random hodge poge).

[Jorbles]

Kel is so much freaking stronger. I played 3 games as Raffam and managed to win one only when my opponents opening hand was so bad he couldn't play until turn 4 and then on top of that had terrible minions resurrection luck. (A lot of Spectral Spiders were resurrected iirc). I have not lost a game as Kel.

[LibraryAdventurer]

ugh. I got the tavern brawl quest just in time for this. Maybe I'll save it for next Tavern brawl.

EDIT: I think I might've won my first game as Rafaam if my opponent hadn't counterspelled my flamestrike.
...and I lost my first game as Kel. I don't see that he's much (if any) stronger.

[KingZog3]

ugh. I got the tavern brawl quest just in time for this. Maybe I'll save it for next Tavern brawl.

EDIT: I think I might've won my first game as Rafaam if my opponent hadn't counterspelled my flamestrike.
...and I lost my first game as Kel. I don't see that he's much (if any) stronger.

He is for sure. I lost my 1st game as Kel too, but it was close. Then the second game was no contest. Noth is insane, especially when I got him duplicated.

[markusin]

Well, I like seeing the bosses imagined as cards. It's a shame they have to be associated with such a lopsided Brawl.

[LibraryAdventurer]

It's not such a bad brawl for a few games at least. (probably more fun for me than most people because I got Kel in about 6/8 games.) In my last game, I had two Thaddeuses in play.

[qmech]

I got Kel in about 6/8 games.

I see what you did there.

[LibraryAdventurer]

I got Kel in about 6/8 games.

I see what you did there.

what did I do there?

[Grujah]

Kel Thuzard is 6/8.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Kel Thuzard is 6/8.

He's 6/8 what?  Whatever I did, it was unintentional (and therefore twice as awesome).

[markusin]

Kel Thuzard is 6/8.

He's 6/8 what?  Whatever I did, it was unintentional (and therefore twice as awesome).

Ket'Thuzad is a Minion with 6 attack and 8 health, which is short-handed to 6/8 stats.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Kel Thuzard is 6/8.

He's 6/8 what?  Whatever I did, it was unintentional (and therefore twice as awesome).

Ket'Thuzad is a Minion with 6 attack and 8 health, which is short-handed to 6/8 stats.

oh. I should've guessed that. The only time I've heard of him is from this Tavern Brawl though, so I've never seen his card (at least not that I remember).

[markusin]

Kel Thuzard is 6/8.

He's 6/8 what?  Whatever I did, it was unintentional (and therefore twice as awesome).

Ket'Thuzad is a Minion with 6 attack and 8 health, which is short-handed to 6/8 stats.

oh. I should've guessed that. The only time I've heard of him is from this Tavern Brawl though, so I've never seen his card (at least not that I remember).

That isn't too surprising. On rare occasion you might come across him during gameplay. He's sort of iconic as many of us here experienced the Curse of Naxxramas Adventure where Kel'Thuzad was the end boss (just like Rafaam is the end boss of the League of Explorers adventure).

[KingZog3]

Kel Thuzard is 6/8.

He's 6/8 what?  Whatever I did, it was unintentional (and therefore twice as awesome).

Ket'Thuzad is a Minion with 6 attack and 8 health, which is short-handed to 6/8 stats.

oh. I should've guessed that. The only time I've heard of him is from this Tavern Brawl though, so I've never seen his card (at least not that I remember).

That isn't too surprising. On rare occasion you might come across him during gameplay. He's sort of iconic as many of us here experienced the Curse of Naxxramas Adventure where Kel'Thuzad was the end boss (just like Rafaam is the end boss of the League of Explorers adventure).

He actually saw a lot of play when Naxx came out, and survived a while in GvG in slower Druid lists. He's very unique as a card and a lot of fun. It's a shame he's rotating out because he'd be so fun in a slow meta.

[markusin]

Kel Thuzard is 6/8.

He's 6/8 what?  Whatever I did, it was unintentional (and therefore twice as awesome).

Ket'Thuzad is a Minion with 6 attack and 8 health, which is short-handed to 6/8 stats.

oh. I should've guessed that. The only time I've heard of him is from this Tavern Brawl though, so I've never seen his card (at least not that I remember).

That isn't too surprising. On rare occasion you might come across him during gameplay. He's sort of iconic as many of us here experienced the Curse of Naxxramas Adventure where Kel'Thuzad was the end boss (just like Rafaam is the end boss of the League of Explorers adventure).

He actually saw a lot of play when Naxx came out, and survived a while in GvG in slower Druid lists. He's very unique as a card and a lot of fun. It's a shame he's rotating out because he'd be so fun in a slow meta.

Yeah, and at 8 mana he'd be coming out sooner than those Old Gods to snatch up those wins. I know I used him a bit in some of my Paladin decks.

He's beastly in Arena. As far as I remember, all cards are accessible in Arena.

[KingZog3]

He'll still be in arena where he's a fairly strong pick in all classes if you are even or ahead on board. If you'e behind he won't be the best, but even if you're only slightly behind with weaker minions, he's pretty insane in arena.

[qmech]

He's beastly in Arena. As far as I remember, all cards are accessible in Arena.

That will be how it works, with the exception that C'thun synergy cards will not be draftable.

[Watno]

Promo cards (murk-eye, gelbin, etc, captain's parrot) are also not in arena

[LibraryAdventurer]

another blah brawl. No minions under 7 mana cost allowed in your deck. This heavily favors the people who have the fancy 7+ cost minions. The only non-basic 7+ minions I have are Captured Jormonger and North Sea Kracken.
I think it'd be a lot better if it was 6+ minions for more options.
I was able to get my pack after three or four games. might not play any more of this one.

[werothegreat]

another blah brawl. No minions under 7 mana cost allowed in your deck. This heavily favors the people who have the fancy 7+ cost minions. The only non-basic 7+ minions I have are Captured Jormonger and North Sea Kracken.
I think it'd be a lot better if it was 6+ minions for more options.
I was able to get my pack after three or four games. might not play any more of this one.

Dude, just run Paladin with a couple Musters and some Secrets (which are all Common).  You'll be the only one with minions on the board for the first 6-7 turns.  You might even win in that time.

[Kirian]

another blah brawl. No minions under 7 mana cost allowed in your deck. This heavily favors the people who have the fancy 7+ cost minions. The only non-basic 7+ minions I have are Captured Jormonger and North Sea Kracken.
I think it'd be a lot better if it was 6+ minions for more options.
I was able to get my pack after three or four games. might not play any more of this one.

Dude, just run Paladin with a couple Musters and some Secrets (which are all Common).  You'll be the only one with minions on the board for the first 6-7 turns.  You might even win in that time.

He likely doesn't have any Musters.  Aren't those Epic?  Rare at best.  He's just starting out still.

[Titandrake]

Druid seems pretty neat so far. Raven Idol, Power of the Wild, and Living Roots get you minions sooner, and you have tons of ramp to get to 7 mana first. (And if you have the cards, FoN + Savage Roar is still a thing.)

[KingZog3]

Druid seems pretty neat so far. Raven Idol, Power of the Wild, and Living Roots get you minions sooner, and you have tons of ramp to get to 7 mana first. (And if you have the cards, FoN + Savage Roar is still a thing.)

I played hunter. Has Animal Companion, deadly shot, hunter's mark and a bunch of low cost weapons. I beat druids, but the competition seemed matched evenly.

[ashersky]

Druid seems pretty neat so far. Raven Idol, Power of the Wild, and Living Roots get you minions sooner, and you have tons of ramp to get to 7 mana first. (And if you have the cards, FoN + Savage Roar is still a thing.)

Agreed.  I built my deck around those minion summon spells, attack spells like Bite and Claw, the combo, and Troggzor.

[LibraryAdventurer]

another blah brawl. No minions under 7 mana cost allowed in your deck. This heavily favors the people who have the fancy 7+ cost minions. The only non-basic 7+ minions I have are Captured Jormonger and North Sea Kracken.
I think it'd be a lot better if it was 6+ minions for more options.
I was able to get my pack after three or four games. might not play any more of this one.

Dude, just run Paladin with a couple Musters and some Secrets (which are all Common).  You'll be the only one with minions on the board for the first 6-7 turns.  You might even win in that time.

He likely doesn't have any Musters.  Aren't those Epic?  Rare at best.  He's just starting out still.

I have one Muster, and I used it, but they get wiped out pretty quick. (it's a rare)
I tried a paladin deck and a druid deck and I think I went 1-3 with each one.

[pingpongsam]

Been playing Legend Warrior. Spells clear any early spell spawned minions. Troggzor, Alex, Rag, Rafaam, Boom, it just goes on and on. The only loss so far out of 12 games was to a Warrior running just weapons and damage spells like Bash.

[pingpongsam]

Oh yeah, kel thuzad. Whenever I get him out the opponent just concedes.

[LostPhoenix]

I am just a beginner, but I found Mage to work very well in this tavern brawl.
I managed to win 4 out of 4 plays despite not having any 7+ minions besides the starters.
There's a lots of secrets to pile on before the 7 mana point.  Mirror entity works very well because you know you are going to get an expensive minion out of it. You could drop the oponnent's health with spells such as fireball.  Once your opponent can start dropping minions, you can easily freeze them with frost nova or frostbolt, or simply polymorph them. Then you can drop your own minions in the meantime.

[KingZog3]

Yeah Mage I good because of all the basic, common and rare spells that a lot of players have. And mirror entity shuts down a lot of plays.

[Grujah]

Awesome brawl, one of better ones, and I actually played more than 1 win (20+ actually) and that is rare.

Many classes are viable. (which is also rare). Druids can ramp to 7 easily, also have idols and ways to get tokens before turn 7. Priests have Mind Games, Ressurect and other fun options. Hunter you can play aggro with no high drops. Shaman you can play burn, mage can play burn too etc.

I racked up a lot of wins with Mindgames Priest, later I switched to aggro hunter with no 7+ except 1 Majordormo to troll Priests. Also 2 flares to troll mages.

[KingZog3]

That main issue with this brawl is that it is literally unplayable for new players. Not just unfair, but potentially you don't even have cards to make a deck.

[markusin]

That main issue with this brawl is that it is literally unplayable for new players. Not just unfair, but potentially you don't even have cards to make a deck.

Yeah I found that to be a troubling issue as well. It seems to me like adding 5-6 Mana or even just 6 Mana Minions would have wrecked the feel of the Brawl though. Maybe they should have limited it to only 5-7 mana Minions or something.

[KingZog3]

That main issue with this brawl is that it is literally unplayable for new players. Not just unfair, but potentially you don't even have cards to make a deck.

Yeah I found that to be a troubling issue as well. It seems to me like adding 5-6 Mana or even just 6 Mana Minions would have wrecked the feel of the Brawl though. Maybe they should have limited it to only 5-7 mana Minions or something.

I think it's fine to have this brawl. Just as long as most of the brawls are accessible. This brawl is interesting, and brawl also appeals to veteran players.

[Awaclus]

Well, usually they alternate between brawls where you have to build a deck out of your own collection and brawls where you don't, to make half of them more accessible to newbies. So if you couldn't really do very well this brawl, at least you'll probably have a chance again next time.

[ashersky]

You'd think they've have done a vanilla brawl by now (no cards with text on them allowed) or an all commons brawl with some other restriction.

[KingZog3]

Vanilla only brawl would be very boring. I think the crazy random ones are a little better, because people get to play with cards they don't have.

[Grujah]

That main issue with this brawl is that it is literally unplayable for new players. Not just unfair, but potentially you don't even have cards to make a deck.

It is not literally unplayable. They can buy packs or craft cards for it.
And you can easily make decent Mage deck out of basically anything, they have so many good basic/common spells.

[Titandrake]

No comments on the Tavern Brawl yet, which is strange.

The rule is only even mana spells, and only odd power minions. I tossed together a Patron Warrior - a lot of key cards are still around, and weapons aren't affected by the even mana restriction. (Although I'm only playing Fiery War Axe and Death's Bite anyways.)

Edit: You know, I actually forgot Frothing was a card. So okay, you're missing some stuff. In exchange, you get to dodge Flamestrike and Excavated Evil.

[Haddock]

No comments on the Tavern Brawl yet, which is strange.

The rule is only even mana spells, and only odd power minions. I tossed together a Patron Warrior - a lot of key cards are still around, and weapons aren't affected by the even mana restriction. (Although I'm only playing Fiery War Axe and Death's Bite anyways.)

Unashamed ripoff of kripparians first Challengestone. I assume they talked to him about it.

[Jorbles]

I did Rogue for my first go round. You still have Backstab, Sap, Eviscerate and many of the good Rogue minions.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Man, it's so hard to decide what to mulligan in this Tavern brawl

[markusin]

Man, it's so hard to decide what to mulligan in this Tavern brawl

Almost as hard as deciding which Copper to trash when you play Moneylender.

[KingZog3]

This brawl makes games last a long time I find. First game went to fatigue.

Also, its 30 raven idol decks.

[markusin]

This brawl makes games last a long time I find. First game went to fatigue.

Also, its 30 raven idol decks.

The first game I played of this Brawl, I got wrecked by a Hunter that got Gadgetzan Auctioneer that I could not answer. Gadgetzan is absurd in this Brawl.

[KingZog3]

This brawl makes games last a long time I find. First game went to fatigue.

Also, its 30 raven idol decks.

The first game I played of this Brawl, I got wrecked by a Hunter that got Gadgetzan Auctioneer that I could not answer. Gadgetzan is absurd in this Brawl.

SO lock and Load and Sorcerer's apprentice.

[LibraryAdventurer]

The first game I played of this Brawl, I got wrecked by a Hunter that got Gadgetzan Auctioneer that I could not answer. Gadgetzan is absurd in this Brawl.

SO lock and Load and Sorcerer's apprentice.

My first game of this brawl, Mana addict was one of my first minions. Easy pack.

Speaking of easy packs, thanks to you KingZog for being my go-to guy for the Watch and Learn quest. I've haven't seen you lose yet.

[KingZog3]

The first game I played of this Brawl, I got wrecked by a Hunter that got Gadgetzan Auctioneer that I could not answer. Gadgetzan is absurd in this Brawl.

SO lock and Load and Sorcerer's apprentice.

My first game of this brawl, Mana addict was one of my first minions. Easy pack.

Speaking of easy packs, thanks to you KingZog for being my go-to guy for the Watch and Learn quest. I've haven't seen you lose yet.

I feel honored. My win rate is pretty good, but I definitely lose sometimes.

[pingpongsam]

I've seen lose but only because he has been my goto guy for months on end. It's always Arena I see him lose in, never constructed.

[werothegreat]

Play Mage.
Raven Idol -> Unstable Portal -> Ravenholdt for (4)
Play Ravenholdt with a Portal'd Sparring Partner.
Raven Idol -> Effigy
Opponent kills Ravenholdt after I attack with it, Effigy gives me Prophet Velen.
Fireball to face, Velen to face.

"Sorry."

[KingZog3]

Play Mage.
Raven Idol -> Unstable Portal -> Ravenholdt for (4)
Play Ravenholdt with a Portal'd Sparring Partner.
Raven Idol -> Effigy
Opponent kills Ravenholdt after I attack with it, Effigy gives me Prophet Velen.
Fireball to face, Velen to face.

"Sorry."

This brawl has some nice moments, but it's similar to Portal brawl with a little more skill an decision making. It's not bad.

[Awaclus]

I think "a little more skill" than Portal brawl is a tremendous understatement. I'd say that this brawl is the most skill-intensive Hearthstone I've ever played, although it is also on the more luck-intensive end as well.

[Kirian]

Ugh.  Two Druid quests, cannot find a win path with Druid...

[markusin]

Ugh.  Two Druid quests, cannot find a win path with Druid...

Not surprising, given that Druid has cards that are meant to be versatile, but this Brawl gives that strength to all classes.

[Titandrake]

If the Brawl didn't take so long, I'd play it more, but both choosing Spell vs Minion, then choosing the Discover options so many times makes turns take forever.

I have no idea what the strongest class is. I played Rogue to get a quest finished, and it seemed okay since Idols let you Combo almost everything. You tend to fall behind on cards though...

[Jorbles]

This is actually a super fun brawl, but I agree, the time of the turns is really long. I have been doing quests with it and every class I've played has had it's own quirks, but not been terrible (Shaman, Warlock, Priest). People I play against seem to overvalue just discovering lots of things and forget to try and develop their board early so I've been winning. Rogue seems pretty strong as you always get your combos off.

Also, it's easy to overlook this brawl because of the new announcements, but I'd recommend playing it. If it weren't for the time length of it, it would be really great.

[markusin]

This is actually a super fun brawl, but I agree, the time of the turns is really long. I have been doing quests with it and every class I've played has had it's own quirks, but not been terrible (Shaman, Warlock, Priest). People I play against seem to overvalue just discovering lots of things and forget to try and develop their board early so I've been winning. Rogue seems pretty strong as you always get your combos off.

Also, it's easy to overlook this brawl because of the new announcements, but I'd recommend playing it. If it weren't for the time length of it, it would be really great.

Yeah the great thing about Raven Idol is that you can either try to discover the perfect answer, or find a respectable body if things are even. How can you really make the best discover choice if you don't have any information about the board state or your opponent's hand?

In general I try to discover a few minions first, and switch to discovering spells once I have a reasonable Minion curve or there is a big threat to answer. Are there any special considerations to make for or against certain classes?

[pingpongsam]

Had a best moment today.

I am Warrior vs Rogue.

First draft was Violet Teacher so turn 4 I drop her and then coin and then a Raven Idol to open the board. All that gets cleared on the next turn with some eviscerate and something.
Not too long after he drops his own Violet Teacher and has his side of the board completely full to my side being empty. Seems like he probably turned the tables with my own tactic.
Nope, I drop Wild Pyromancer, Commanding Shout, Bouncing Blade... in that order using all available mana (that is, I had already drafted these cards with a similar strategy in mind).

It was the turning point where I went on to win the game.

Hey, I've got the 5 Brawl quest to do.

[ashersky]

I dropped a Lorewalker Cho on T2.  We took turns filling each other's hands with Idols, only discovering minions at first, then taking spells when I could fill his hand to 10 and play them without passing.  He didn't remove it for like 5 turns, which was funny.

[blueblimp]

I expected to dislike the webspinner brawl like I did the last two times, but this time I actually kinda enjoyed it. The new beasts make it better.

[KingZog3]

Brawl is choose two cards, you get 15 of each. While flamewaker+arcane missiles didn't lose me a game, I urge you to try what my friend did, which is Angry Chicken+Mark of Ysharj. It's hilarious and actually not bad.

[Jorbles]

I want to craft Astral Communion for this Brawl. Astral + Ysera or whatever.

[KingZog3]

I want to craft Astral Communion for this Brawl. Astral + Ysera or whatever.

Oh no. Now I have to try that too. I saw evolve shamans, thing from below shamans. So many funny things to do.

[KingZog3]

New best though is of course mechwarper+Metaltooth Leaper.

[Kirian]

Obviously Innervate/Wild Growth.  I'll have 10 mana on turn 5!

[Awaclus]

Obviously Innervate/Wild Growth.  I'll have 10 mana on turn 5!

You'll die from fatigue way before turn 5! though.

[LostPhoenix]

Knife Juggler+Forbidden Ritual worked wonders for me.
So far I've only lost to Murloc Tidecaller+Murloc Tidehunter.

Edit: Still strong, but not as powerful as I originally thought it to be.

[Rabid]

My Naturalize + Coldlight Oracle deck seems really strong.

edit: started running into mechwarper, funny but very bad matchup.

[KingZog3]

Mechwarper hunter lost to hogger innervate Druid. The amount of decks is astounding me. Best brawl in a long time.

[blueblimp]

Fun brawl. Naturalize + Coldlight Oracle is maybe the scariest to face because if you're not running a counter, you get absolutely _destroyed_. Tinyfin+Everyfin should be a decent counter but I haven't drawn the druid mill with that yet.

[Awaclus]

Naturalize + Coldlight Oracle is maybe the scariest to face because if you're not running a counter, you get absolutely _destroyed_.

I'm in the middle of playing a mirror match of that right now. It's hilarious. Some might even call it spectacular!

I also got totally rekt by a Target Dummy/Bolster earlier.

[Watno]

I went with Innervate+Yogg Saron. Most probably not the best deck, but, it makes interesting things happen.

[blueblimp]

I also got totally rekt by a Target Dummy/Bolster earlier.

Yeah, it's a mostly better version of the tinyfin+everyfin deck, although loss of totems hurts a bit. Seems really crazy.

[Watno]

Lol, I just made exactly that deck (target dummy+bolster)

[blueblimp]

Dummy/Bolster is bonkers. The only deck I've seen that I think might be favored is Innervate/Deathwing, but that seems worse as an overall deck. The weakness of Dummy/Bolster is that you have almost no sustain after the initial aggro burst, so any deck that can clear your board even once should do OK, but it's hard to do that in time.

[blueblimp]

Never mind dummy/bolster, the premiere snowball deck so far is mechwarper/leaper. But I lost against ice block / fireball first time I tried playing it, so it's not auto-win.

[blueblimp]

Block/fireball is actually nuts. It sounds terrible but because of how the math works out, basically if you ever start your turn with 5 cards after the draw, you win almost 100% against most decks. Just make sure you mulligan for ice blocks.

It does lose against coldlight naturalize if you don't draw enough fireballs, though. Also the theory for classes with healing powers is complicated and I haven't worked it out--it might be that you lose 100% to warriors if they play right, not sure.

[KingZog3]

Block/fireball is actually nuts. It sounds terrible but because of how the math works out, basically if you ever start your turn with 5 cards after the draw, you win almost 100% against most decks. Just make sure you mulligan for ice blocks.

It does lose against coldlight naturalize if you don't draw enough fireballs, though. Also the theory for classes with healing powers is complicated and I haven't worked it out--it might be that you lose 100% to warriors if they play right, not sure.

A friend of mine thought of the fireball ice block, then right after I faced it on "ladder." I haven't lost to it, but they were games where my opponent clearly didn't draw enough ice blocks.

[blueblimp]

Too bad about block/fireball's ResidentSleeper factor. I just played a game against Innervate/Y'Shaarj where all 7 of his Y'Shaarj would play their animation at the end of every turn. Zero decision-making worth mentioning, and came down to a coinflip of whether I draw an ice block on the second last turn (I did).

[ycz6]

The first deck I thought of was Ice Block / Ice Lance. I played against an Innervate / Coldlight Oracle deck which played 7 Oracles on turn 1, but managed to stabilize and one-shotted him from 28 health + 4 armor on turn 13 or so.

I think Fireball is better in most cases, though.

[Titandrake]

With a good draw and going second, Murloc Tidecaller/Murloc Tinyfin with Warlock beats Mechwarper/Leaper. I won my first game against a Warper/Leaper deck right after they emptied their hand.

The problem is that it's more fragile, I don't think it wins if you go first, and it probably loses to Dummy/Bolster.

[pingpongsam]

Interesting thing happens with a golden card. Not all copies are golden...

[blueblimp]

The first deck I thought of was Ice Block / Ice Lance. I played against an Innervate / Coldlight Oracle deck which played 7 Oracles on turn 1, but managed to stabilize and one-shotted him from 28 health + 4 armor on turn 13 or so.

Yeah, innervate/coldlight is amusingly terrible against block/fireball, because once they fill their board, they can't force draws anymore.

My overall feeling on this brawl is that I enjoyed it but it gets old fast. The big problem is that the gameplay itself tends to be unfun. The decks play themselves and you tend to either have instant concedes (with empty-your-hand decks) or long brainless grinds (with block decks). My most recent match was against a player running a block/lance deck who decided to rope every turn, and that really killed any desire in me to queue up for another. (I won because I was playing dummy/bolster, and that hard counters the block decks, but each turn all I'd get to do is wait for his turn to run out, press armor up and pop his block, repeat 10 times...)

[werothegreat]

I played Mind Blast/Holy Nova.  It's too fast for any of the Druid Coldlight Oracle decks, but I was flattened by an Innervate/Y'Shaarj.

[Kirian]

I played Mind Blast/Holy Nova.  It's too fast for any of the Druid Coldlight Oracle decks, but I was flattened by an Innervate/Y'Shaarj.

For the hell of it (and because I had a Priest quest) I tried out Mind Blast/Light of the Naaru.  It wasn't going to beat Leaper, but it was fun for 3 wins.

Got destroyed by a Mage playing Thalnos/Arcane Missiles.

[werothegreat]

I played Mind Blast/Holy Nova.  It's too fast for any of the Druid Coldlight Oracle decks, but I was flattened by an Innervate/Y'Shaarj.

For the hell of it (and because I had a Priest quest) I tried out Mind Blast/Light of the Naaru.  It wasn't going to beat Leaper, but it was fun for 3 wins.

Got destroyed by a Mage playing Thalnos/Arcane Missiles.

Hmm.  Could do Kobold Geo and AM.

In other news, I ran Innverate/Ironbark Protector.  It made a Target Dummy Warrior concede.

[ashersky]

I also did Coldlight/Naturalize.  If your opponent plays minions, you can Naturalize them; if they don't, Naturalize your own Coldlights.

[LibraryAdventurer]

This tavern brawl sucks. If you play a fun pair you get destroyed, if you play a cheap combo, you can win. And playing the games with a cheap combo is no fun at all.
I played several games before getting my pack, and I don't think I'll bother playing any more of this one.

[markusin]

I was messing around with Light Warden + Voodoo Doctor. Doing some math suggests that it's flat out worse than Mechwarper + Metaltooth Leaper. I think Auchenai + Circle of Healing beats Mechwarper + Metaltooth Leaper if Auchenai + Circle goes second. Circle will always at least 1-for-1 while Auchenai will 2-for-1, and the combo can be coined out on Turn 3 to respond to the Hunter's Turn 3 board spam. of course, Auchenai + Circle will just lose of Coldlight shenanigans.

We had discussed the 30-copies-of-one-card game, and I guess this is almost like that.

Edit: It's funny how you can make decks to specifically counter other decks. Like, Secret Keeper + Eye for an Eye will beat Fireball + Ice Block, but it will probably lose to everything else.

[AHoppy]

I beat target dummy bolster with fiery bat/kill command, but that was the only game I won with that deck. I almost beat innervate/y'saraj with it but drew first bat instead of kill command on my last turn.

[Awaclus]

This tavern brawl sucks. If you play a fun pair you get destroyed, if you play a cheap combo, you can win. And playing the games with a cheap combo is no fun at all.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introduction

[markusin]

This tavern brawl sucks. If you play a fun pair you get destroyed, if you play a cheap combo, you can win. And playing the games with a cheap combo is no fun at all.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introduction

Wow, that describes perfectly why I continue to enjoy playing Hearthstone regardless of how "bad" and "unfun" the meta might appear to be. The flavour of the month that other players wish didn't exist is merely a worthy challenge for me.

[werothegreat]

I also did Coldlight/Naturalize.  If your opponent plays minions, you can Naturalize them; if they don't, Naturalize your own Coldlights.

I present to you, Mind Blast Priest.

[Grujah]

This brawl seems like a heaven for grinding gold. Take a turn 2-3 deck like Mech warper/Leaper and you can squeeze a shitload of wins in an small amount of time.

Gonna try Brave Archer / Firebat.

[Galzria]

I've run Innervate/ColdLight, MechWarper/Anything & Murloc Tidecaller/Warleader (my fav so far)

[Kirian]

I just went up against two Innervate/Coldlight, which is just shredded by Naturalize/Coldlight.

Oh, you're going to draw all of your own deck so I don't have to do all the work?  Thanks!

[Grujah]

This brawl rocks. You can get test all kind of crazy concepts.

I tried, with varying sucess:
Raven Idol / Innervate
Yog / Innervate
Chill Maw / Innervate
Chill Maw / Ancestor's Call
Upgrade / Southsea Deckhand
Brave Archer / Shieldberer
Undercity Husker / Journey Below
Doomsayer / Ice Lance
Edit: forgot
Wild Pyro / Silence (should try PW:S too)

I also faced Mana Wraith / Innervate Druid
 
Mechwarper / Gorillabot seems super strong too.

[KingZog3]

I've seen the Gorillabot decks. They seem strong vs anything that doesn't win turn 3, which is a fair amount of decks. The chance to get a healbot vs ice block decks makes its interesting too.

[yaffle]

My best combo so far is Scavenging Hyena and Stonetusk Boar

It's proved unstoppable so far...

[blueblimp]

I claimed earlier I was bored of this brawl, but someone on the subreddit suggested doomsayer/thoughtsteal. It's much less boring than most decks and has some pretty good matchups. It's a good counter to warper decks and ice block decks (you win nearly every time unless you draw horribly). Has a bad matchup vs dummy/bolster and is unwinnable vs naturalize/coldlight, and is kinda meh against niche decks (especially since I might not know how to play well against them), but overall still good.

[werothegreat]

This brawl rocks. You can get test all kind of crazy concepts.

I tried, with varying sucess:
Raven Idol / Innervate
Yog / Innervate
Chill Maw / Innervate
Chill Maw / Ancestor's Call
Upgrade / Southsea Deckhand
Brave Archer / Shieldberer
Undercity Husker / Journey Below
Doomsayer / Ice Lance
Edit: forgot
Wild Pyro / Silence (should try PW:S too)

I also faced Mana Wraith / Innervate Druid
 
Mechwarper / Gorillabot seems super strong too.

You forgot Mind Blast decks!  My Mind Blast/Holy Nova got one point off lethal against a Mind Blast/Shadowbomber deck.

Damn, this brawl is making me want to recraft GvG cards.  :/

[Awaclus]

Damn, this brawl is making me want to recraft GvG cards.  :/

Why disenchant them in the first place? You need them for Wild anyway.

[Titandrake]

Damn, this brawl is making me want to recraft GvG cards.  :/

Why disenchant them in the first place? You need them for Wild anyway.

...because some people only want to play Standard and people are time-constrained/dust-constrained/money-constrained?

[qmech]

Too bad about block/fireball's ResidentSleeper factor.

Don't worry guys, I'm playing Shadowbomber/Kezan Priest.

[Grujah]

This brawl rocks. You can get test all kind of crazy concepts.

I tried, with varying sucess:
Raven Idol / Innervate
Yog / Innervate
Chill Maw / Innervate
Chill Maw / Ancestor's Call
Upgrade / Southsea Deckhand
Brave Archer / Shieldberer
Undercity Husker / Journey Below
Doomsayer / Ice Lance
Edit: forgot
Wild Pyro / Silence (should try PW:S too)

I also faced Mana Wraith / Innervate Druid
 
Mechwarper / Gorillabot seems super strong too.

You forgot Mind Blast decks!  My Mind Blast/Holy Nova got one point off lethal against a Mind Blast/Shadowbomber deck.

Damn, this brawl is making me want to recraft GvG cards.  :/

In meanwhile, I tried:
Forbidden Tenatacles / Sea Giant
Light of Naruu + Shadow Word Glory or Mindblast or Auchanai
Armorsmith / Whirlwind.

[Grujah]

I claimed earlier I was bored of this brawl, but someone on the subreddit suggested doomsayer/thoughtsteal. It's much less boring than most decks and has some pretty good matchups. It's a good counter to warper decks and ice block decks (you win nearly every time unless you draw horribly). Has a bad matchup vs dummy/bolster and is unwinnable vs naturalize/coldlight, and is kinda meh against niche decks (especially since I might not know how to play well against them), but overall still good.

Uhm, how does it beat warper exactly?

[KingZog3]

I claimed earlier I was bored of this brawl, but someone on the subreddit suggested doomsayer/thoughtsteal. It's much less boring than most decks and has some pretty good matchups. It's a good counter to warper decks and ice block decks (you win nearly every time unless you draw horribly). Has a bad matchup vs dummy/bolster and is unwinnable vs naturalize/coldlight, and is kinda meh against niche decks (especially since I might not know how to play well against them), but overall still good.

Uhm, how does it beat warper exactly?

By playing a doomsayer the turn before they dump their hand. Basically it stalls them out, and they can't dump their hand, and eventually you can make a board? I tried the deck but didn't face off vs any mechwarper decks.

[markusin]

Damn, this brawl is making me want to recraft GvG cards.  :/

Why disenchant them in the first place? You need them for Wild anyway.

And Hearthstone Adventures. Extreme example, Kel'Thuzad is often an MVP for Adventures bosses, but you never know when cards like Mad Scientist, Bouncing Blade, or Maexxna will be key to beating one of the bosses.

[blueblimp]

I claimed earlier I was bored of this brawl, but someone on the subreddit suggested doomsayer/thoughtsteal. It's much less boring than most decks and has some pretty good matchups. It's a good counter to warper decks and ice block decks (you win nearly every time unless you draw horribly). Has a bad matchup vs dummy/bolster and is unwinnable vs naturalize/coldlight, and is kinda meh against niche decks (especially since I might not know how to play well against them), but overall still good.

Uhm, how does it beat warper exactly?

You keep playing doomsayers to deny their turn, while thoughtstealing with spare mana. Once you run out of doomsayers, play your own mech combo. You will be in a strong tempo position because you got out your mechs the turn before your opponent does.

[ashersky]

Did anyone mention Mana Wyrm + Arcane Missiles?  Great for gold grinding since it wins by T4 and you know when to concede early.

Did Innervate + new Deathwing for fun since I just opened it -- never got the dream deathrattle turn.

[markusin]

Did anyone mention Mana Wyrm + Arcane Missiles?  Great for gold grinding since it wins by T4 and you know when to concede early.

Did Innervate + new Deathwing for fun since I just opened it -- never got the dream deathrattle turn.

I've also seen Sorceror's Apprentice + Arcane Missiles. I'm not sure how effective that actually is, but it sounds better than Wyrm + Missiles against those pesky mill decks.

It's kind of sad when you see stuff like Museum Curator or Unstable Portal from players trying to get around the restriction, only to see that the combo decks are what win. I remember seeing stuff like Webspinner + Scavenging Hyena too, but I guess that's worse than Stonetusk Boar + Scavenging Hyena?

[Lekkit]

I've tried Frost Nova + Flamewalker. It's actually kind of decent.

[ashersky]

Thoroughly convinced Target Dummy + Bolster is overall best.  Loses to Frost Nova or Ice Block, not much else.

[yaffle]

After 16 straight wins - including over Target Dummy/Bolster and Innervate/Coldlight Oracle - Scavenging Hyena/Stonetusk Boar was finally beaten by Mana Worm/Arcane Missile.

I wonder if Blizzard is keeping stats to see which was the most popular or effective two cards?

[LibraryAdventurer]

So I played more of this brawl because of the Tavern Brawl quest. The Doomsayer / Thoughtsteal suggestion on here sounded the most fun and turned out to be good. After it won all but one of the games needed for the quest and then lost twice, I won my last one with mirror image / fireball (which probably wouldn't win often, but I thought I'd try it).

[ashersky]

Just did Dust Devil + Rockbiter for Shaman quest.  Wins on T3 if they can't clear or taunt.  Only loss was a Annoy-o-Tron from a Gorilla.

[Grujah]

I claimed earlier I was bored of this brawl, but someone on the subreddit suggested doomsayer/thoughtsteal. It's much less boring than most decks and has some pretty good matchups. It's a good counter to warper decks and ice block decks (you win nearly every time unless you draw horribly). Has a bad matchup vs dummy/bolster and is unwinnable vs naturalize/coldlight, and is kinda meh against niche decks (especially since I might not know how to play well against them), but overall still good.

Uhm, how does it beat warper exactly?

You keep playing doomsayers to deny their turn, while thoughtstealing with spare mana. Once you run out of doomsayers, play your own mech combo. You will be in a strong tempo position because you got out your mechs the turn before your opponent does.

Yeah, and 1 turn without a doomsayer costs you the game.

I play Whirlwind Frothing now. it boardclears all massdump decks early and can presure other decks if needed.

Also any deck that folds to Dummy/Bolster has a high chance of autoconceding when they see a Warrior.

[blueblimp]

Yeah, and 1 turn without a doomsayer costs you the game.

Yes, if you draw badly then you will lose. This is Hearthstone after all.

My intuition is that you don't need as many doomsayers as block/fireball requires blocks, but I haven't calculated it. (You need to play your first doomsayer 1 turn earlier than the first block, but you only need to cast about 4 thoughtsteals to get a winning combo in hand, which at 3 mana each is much easier to do than casting six 4 mana fireballs.)

[Jorbles]

This is the best brawl for quests ever though.

[blueblimp]

I consider the big three decks of this brawl to be dummy/bolster, warper/leaper, block/fireball. I tried to find a deck that is favored vs all 3 and vitality totem / elemental destruction might be it. I'm sure it's favored vs block/fireball, less sure vs warper/leaper, not enough data vs dummy/bolster. Unfortunately, outside of meta decks, VT/ED has a lot of bad matchups.

[Jorbles]

Is Vitality Totem/ED win condition to ping the enemy down with the 1/1 totem/win when the game goes into fatigue?

[Kirian]

I love how this Brawl developed it's own meta in just a day or two.  This should be the next new format.

[blueblimp]

Is Vitality Totem/ED win condition to ping the enemy down with the 1/1 totem/win when the game goes into fatigue?

The win condition is fatigue, yeah. The 1/1 totem can be useful as a threat but I haven't had it do much face damage. (If you're forced to ED then your 1/1 totem gets cleared.)

[Jorbles]

Mechazod is back baby! Seems easier than old Mechazod. I think he raises his attack less often so you have more time to kill him. Beat it first try anyways despite my opponent making some moves I would have considered mistakes in the last version.

[markusin]

Mechazod is back baby! Seems easier than old Mechazod. I think he raises his attack less often so you have more time to kill him. Beat it first try anyways despite my opponent making some moves I would have considered mistakes in the last version.

Yeah it's an interesting Brawl I feel. The first game I thought we were doing so well but we ended up losing. The second game we were making no progress, but then my ally played double Blessed Champion thanks to my Milhouse and we won.

[KingZog3]

I got my 5 brawl wins easier than I thought, despite more than half my partners being very bad (I did concede 2 games as soon as my partner played blessing of might on a 1/1 and killed him on mechazod turn 2)

[XerxesPraelor]

My partners keep filling up their board and killing everything. It's really frustrating.

[Galzria]

I just won my first. My teammates don't seem to understand that the more little guys there are on the board, the less likely mech is to kill your big hitters. They keep throwing their 1/1's at him like it'll make a difference, and my 15+/3 waiting on a Divine Shield gets nuked. :/

[markusin]

Woah, this Tavern Brawl, (minions played gain stealth for one turn, start with +10 armor) lets you do all sorts of fancy stuff that would never be reliable in a normal game. I got my pack using a crazy Ramp Druid. You can really get massive ramp with cards like Pint-sized Summoner, Darnassus Aspriant, Naga Sea Witch, Avianna, Thaurissan, and even Alarm-o-bot. And anyone can use a stealthed Doomsayer for a boardwipe.

[Jorbles]

I've been taking advantage of the fact that Taunt basically sucks in this mode by building a Hunter deck full of charge and burn cards. (Other good hunter cards in this mode are Snipe, Explosive, Deadly Shot and Multishot.)

[KingZog3]

Mana tide totem. Insane. So because of this I'm trying reincarnate Shaman.

[markusin]

Mana tide totem. Insane. So because of this I'm trying reincarnate Shaman.

Yeah Mana Tide was enticing, but I felt overload would hold back the potential abuse possible with the new rules. I suppose the windfury stuff is good in this Brawl too though.

[Jorbles]

I finally lived out my Mill Rogue dreams! This mode is amazing for Mill Rogue.

[KingZog3]

I finally lived out my Mill Rogue dreams! This mode is amazing for Mill Rogue.

I kept losing to tempo mages and alarmo-druids. Also alarmo bot is amazing.

[Jorbles]

Doomsayer is also amazing in this mode. Dealing 7 damage to a stealthed minion is so hard. You options are basically Mass Dispel, Deadly Shot or Sabotage.

Edit: Yes, there's some other options, but they're mostly extremely expensive or would wipe your board too.

[XerxesPraelor]

I got my pack with spell damage mage, but it was obviously not that good. Evolved Kobald was a nice one to keep though.

[LibraryAdventurer]

This brawl lets you play as a mix of two classes (only one hero power though of course). I got to play bestial wrath on a giant sandworm and it was awesome (not that you can't do that in normal play, but I'd never thought of it before). My favorite mix is paladin/hunter.

[markusin]

This brawl lets you play as a mix of two classes (only one hero power though of course). I got to play bestial wrath on a giant sandworm and it was awesome (not that you can't do that in normal play, but I'd never thought of it before). My favorite mix is paladin/hunter.

Wow, I was just thinking about how I never saw the Bestial Wrath + Giant Sandworm combo yet after I got a Golden Bestial Wrath from the season reward chest.

[XerxesPraelor]

I like going mage/priest and just killing everything they put down.

[Awaclus]

I have wanted for this to be a thing multiple times for a lot of different reasons, but now I can't remember what any of those reasons were. 

[werothegreat]

Paladin/Mage

Mysterious Challenger

[ashersky]

Any thoughts on this one (seven card deck, 23 portals, no portals in opening draw)?

Looks like 2x Mana Wyrm, 2x Flame Waker, 2x Sorceror's Apprentice, Arcane Intellect is the standard.

[pingpongsam]

I threw together Apprentice, 2 wakers, ice block, ethereal arcanist, wyrm, Kirin tor Mage. Solid win rate but this is almost entirely RNG.

[werothegreat]

I put in a Cabalist's tome and a polymorph and was pretty happy with that

[markusin]

Any thoughts on this one (seven card deck, 23 portals, no portals in opening draw)?

Looks like 2x Mana Wyrm, 2x Flame Waker, 2x Sorceror's Apprentice, Arcane Intellect is the standard.

This was my deck, except I used Duplicate instead of Arcane Intellect.

[Jorbles]

I think that Mage deck (the win almost every Brawl deck) is probably the strongest reliably, but I did this with Druid to good effect (Innervate x 2, Darnassus Aspirant x 2, Jeeves x 1, Raven Idol x 1, Swipe x 1, Wrath x 2) blow all your cards and then play Jeeves.

[ashersky]

I feel like there's a valid Astral Communion, 2x Innervate -- something deck to be made.  Not sure what it is, and it needs draw after the fact.  It's hard.

[Jorbles]

Maybe like Astral Communion, Innervate, Nourish, Coldlight? Dunno Druids card draw isn't amazing.

[Jorbles]

I don't love it tbh because once you're topdecking you are really dependent on getting good randoms.

[popsofctown]

Astral Communion seems like a really bad idea when you are forced to play a deck with a mean CM of ~3.5

I did my 1 win, and I also played 2x Mana Wyrm 2x Sorc Apprentice 2x Flamewaker.  My one off was Dr. Boom.  Hey.  It's a good card.

I kinda wonder if there is a better option than the Mana Wyrm. But I'm too busy playing Constructed to worry all that much >_<

[markusin]

Astral Communion seems like a really bad idea when you are forced to play a deck with a mean CM of ~3.5

I did my 1 win, and I also played 2x Mana Wyrm 2x Sorc Apprentice 2x Flamewaker.  My one off was Dr. Boom.  Hey.  It's a good card.

I kinda wonder if there is a better option than the Mana Wyrm. But I'm too busy playing Constructed to worry all that much >_<

Maybe something like Effigy or Duplicate can work. Or maybe Faceless.

[popsofctown]

I didn't think of Duplicate.  That seems better than the previously suggested Arcane Intellect right on the surface, it should be easy enough to hit a Sorc Apprentice or Flamewaker with it.

[markusin]

I didn't think of Duplicate.  That seems better than the previously suggested Arcane Intellect right on the surface, it should be easy enough to hit a Sorc Apprentice or Flamewaker with it.

In my game, I got Duplicate to proc on Chromaggus. Not the best because you don't get the discount on the extra copies from Duplicate, but hey a nice big Minion there.

I was up against a Priest that just chose some removal and some board clears.

[werothegreat]

I got a Giant Sand Worm, then a Faceless Manipulator.  Hearthstone is pretty fun when your opponent has shitty minions and no removal

[popsofctown]

Hey, that sounds like WotC's new design philosophy.

[Jorbles]

Hey, that sounds like WotC's new design philosophy.

If everyone has the same thing it evens out though right?

[blueblimp]

Interesting thing about this brawl (Clockwork Card Dealer 2) is that I'm again playing Secret Paladin, and although I've seen several opponents tech in Eater of Secrets, I've beaten every such deck (iirc). Partly it's that if I don't see them play something on 4 mana, I can assume they probably run eater and skip challenger. Partly it's that eater is not even that amazing a counter to challenger. (The 6/6 stays on the board, after all.)

[markusin]

I ran Dragon Priest once again for this Brawl. The neat thing about this Brawl this time around is that you can guarantee that you draw an Old God by Turn 10.

[blueblimp]

After having astral communion discard a nearly full hand in back-to-back games, I think I'm done with this one (the yogg-saron tryouts).

[pingpongsam]

I keep getting Bouncing Blade when I am the only one with minions on the board.

[KingZog3]

Two games in and I'm frustrated. It's not even like Yogg Soron that is crazy in one turn. This is just random annoyingness.

[pingpongsam]

Two games in and I'm frustrated. It's not even like Yogg Soron that is crazy in one turn. This is just random annoyingness.

A big issue issue (besides the obvious RNGRNGRNGRNGRNG) is the scaling. It would be a little better if the spell cast had the same mana cost as the minion played. As it is dropping a 1 mana minion has as much likelihood to cast DOOM! as it does put a Fireball into your own face.

[ashersky]

I got a Sprint off my 1-mana minion.  Pretty nice to draw 4.

[Titandrake]

I thought this would be fun randomness, but it's just annoying. Most random spells only hit one target, so you usually lose when you're behind on board because your entire deck is minions. But, there's always that small chance that your next minion triggers Twisting Nether or DOOM, which drags out games longer than is fun.

[markusin]

I don't know what you guys think of this solo Tavern Brawl, but being guaranteed a win was really convenient for the 5-Tavern-Brawl-Win quest I had.

[werothegreat]

Choose 3!  I chose Innervate/Coldlight Oracle/Savage Roar.

[pingpongsam]

I chose Babbling Brook, Mana Wyrm, Mirror Image. Went 5-0 for the brawl quest and completely whipped 5 different classes with som strong picks. The best was Raven Idol, Innervate, Ysharj. He actually Starfall and Moonfired my board away and the next turn he innervated Yshaarj and emoted an apology a little too soon since right before then I had cast Wyrm, Image and a Mirror Entity I got from Brook.

[ashersky]

Swashburglar + Cold Blood + Eviscerate won me the pack.

[Galzria]

Mana Wyrm/Frost Nova/Choice still works fairly well. I have AI as my 3rd, but you could do a lot of things.

[Galzria]

Target Dummy, Protect the King and Bolster is fun too.

[Galzria]

I've found Bloodmage Thalanos, Ice Block, and "Mage Damage Spell Here", to be near unbeatable.

[LostPhoenix]

Malchezaar's Imp + Soulfire + Silverware Golem got me 4 wins with 1 loss.

[werothegreat]

Malchezaar's Imp + Soulfire + Silverware Golem got me 4 wins with 1 loss.

Played someone running Malchezaar's Imp/Darkshire Librarian/Fist of Jaraxxus.

[blueblimp]

Is there anything that consistently beats M Imp / Soulfire / Fist? Seems strong.

[blueblimp]

Compared to "top 2" (15 each of two cards), this brawl feels much less consistent. Obviously it'll be less consistent because you have 3 cards instead of 2, but I'm surprised it feels like such a huge difference.

With top 2, matchups were almost 100% determined by deck and who goes first. In this one there's much more variance.

[blueblimp]

Also the MImp/Soulfire/Fist mirror is a terrible RNG fiesta. So disgusting.

[Galzria]

Is there anything that consistently beats M Imp / Soulfire / Fist? Seems strong.

Thalanos, Ice Block, Forgotten Torch (I like it better than Frostbolt or Fireball here. Upwards of 90+ dmg to spread around, and  extends your deck size). You can replace Thalanos with AI or any cheap card replacement, but the Spell Dmg is a nice kicker.

[Galzria]

Is there anything that consistently beats M Imp / Soulfire / Fist? Seems strong.

Thalanos, Ice Block, Forgotten Torch (I like it better than Frostbolt or Fireball here. Upwards of 90+ dmg to spread around, and  extends your deck size). You can replace Thalanos with AI or any cheap card replacement, but the Spell Dmg is a nice kicker.

At least it does from my experience, as I'm 4-0 against that combo.

[werothegreat]

Is there anything that consistently beats M Imp / Soulfire / Fist? Seems strong.

Thalanos, Ice Block, Forgotten Torch (I like it better than Frostbolt or Fireball here. Upwards of 90+ dmg to spread around, and  extends your deck size). You can replace Thalanos with AI or any cheap card replacement, but the Spell Dmg is a nice kicker.

At least it does from my experience, as I'm 4-0 against that combo.

Me thinks that should lose to Mill Druid.

Just tried Northshire Cleric/Divine Spirit/Inner Fire.  Pretty amusing when it works.

[Galzria]

Is there anything that consistently beats M Imp / Soulfire / Fist? Seems strong.

Thalanos, Ice Block, Forgotten Torch (I like it better than Frostbolt or Fireball here. Upwards of 90+ dmg to spread around, and  extends your deck size). You can replace Thalanos with AI or any cheap card replacement, but the Spell Dmg is a nice kicker.

At least it does from my experience, as I'm 4-0 against that combo.

Me thinks that should lose to Mill Druid.

Just tried Northshire Cleric/Divine Spirit/Inner Fire.  Pretty amusing when it works.

I've only ran into mill once with it and won, however in theory while they can't fatigue kill you on their turn your draw should kill you.

[AHoppy]

I've been doing Barnes/voidcaller/Mal'ganis with pretty high success rate.  A lot of that is people auto conceding, but not all.  It's slow to start and relies on you being able to kill off the voidcallers so loses to a spell only mage deck.  Also sucks when barnes only pulls barnes, but otherwise it's a ton of fun.

[werothegreat]

I've been doing Barnes/voidcaller/Mal'ganis with pretty high success rate.  A lot of that is people auto conceding, but not all.  It's slow to start and relies on you being able to kill off the voidcallers so loses to a spell only mage deck.  Also sucks when barnes only pulls barnes, but otherwise it's a ton of fun.

Kripp swapped out Barnes for Sacrificial Pact, which has the added advantage of countering Malchezaar's Imp strats.

[blueblimp]

I've been doing Barnes/voidcaller/Mal'ganis with pretty high success rate.  A lot of that is people auto conceding, but not all.  It's slow to start and relies on you being able to kill off the voidcallers so loses to a spell only mage deck.  Also sucks when barnes only pulls barnes, but otherwise it's a ton of fun.

Kripp swapped out Barnes for Sacrificial Pact, which has the added advantage of countering Malchezaar's Imp strats.

Wow, this is a super strong counter vs MImp/Soulfire/Fist. It doesn't feel quite as favored against the Silverware Golem version though.

[blueblimp]

Axe/AChamp/FDragon also does well against MImp/Soulfire/Fist, although it's not a hard counter. The matchup against mill druid is interesting: I think it's best to play only the faerie dragons to try to deny naturalize targets, but I haven't had much of that matchup. It does mostly badly against warper/annoy/leaper unfortunately, but it's not unwinnable.

[blueblimp]

Chess brawl this week.

[Galzria]

Soooo boring. Got my win on first game. I will NOT be playing another.

[LostPhoenix]

When we had the chess encounter in Karazhan, lots of people wanted to be able to play it against their friends. So I'm not surprised that it came out as a tavern brawl, but I kind of agree - It's boring.

[blueblimp]

Black is feeling better than White for me so far. I'm 12-1 with Black but only 4-3 with White. Having the extra card is a big deal, and the extra mana doesn't matter so much most of the time.

That said, the one game I lost as Black is when White opened with 1-2-3 pawns, which was hard to stop. That should be rare though.

[Kirian]

When we had the chess encounter in Karazhan, lots of people wanted to be able to play it against their friends. So I'm not surprised that it came out as a tavern brawl, but I kind of agree - It's boring.

Oh man, chess in Kara was so damn much fun.  This little auto-win respite after killing 10 bosses before going on to Malchezaar.

[blueblimp]

Brawl this time is 22 of one card and 8 random class cards.

A bit weird. I get why they didn't go with 30 of one card (too boring) but filling it out with random class cards... eh.

[Galzria]

I like babbling book or swashburgler - makes for an exciting, if random, game.

[blueblimp]

I've played ~20 games of this brawl but I'm still not sure what I think. Decks focusing on face damage (by rushing small minions, or mind blast) seem OK but not as strong as in the 2 and 3 card brawls. Some oddball decks actually seem somewhat viable: I've seen Renounce Darkness, Swashburglar, and Warlock Zerus all win against rush decks at least once.

I wonder if they'll ever do a brawl that just allows you to build a deck with no per-card limit (so you can put more than 2 of one card type). It's probably degenerate somehow but might be interesting to find out how.

[LostPhoenix]

Forbidden shaping is fun, but somewhat innefective

[ashersky]

Brave Archer can be good when you empty your hand.

[markusin]

*Tavern Brawl flavour text talks about how now, after giving Webspinners and Unstable Portals a chance, it's time to let the player choose the spam*

*Proceeds to play against opponent that goes Webspinner*

I only managed to beat Webspinner with my Maelstorm Portal thanks to my class cards (fireguard destroyer, evolve).

Edit: and Wicked Witchdoctor summoning Spell Totem.

[werothegreat]

Kripp went Bash, and it was pretty effective against Mind Blast.

[blueblimp]

I've played Bash a bit. It's alright. Doesn't do well against minion spam decks though.

The thing that makes this brawl less enduring to me than the 2-card brawl is that there isn't very much creative space when designing decks. In the 2-card brawl, it was usually possible to design something that would beat whatever 3 decks you wanted, but in this brawl it really isn't.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Swashburgler is fun. Just won 2 out of 3 with it. Actually both wins were against that murloc that buffs itself when you play another murloc (one priest and one paladin). Both times, the opponent suffered from running out of cards in hand. The loss was against a Thing From Below shaman.

[LostPhoenix]

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20324471/introducing-heroic-tavern-brawl-10-17-2016

In the upcoming Tavern Brawl, you create a standard deck and face other players arena style, playing until you have 3 losses.  If you somehow manage to get 12 wins, you will be rewarded with a whopping 50 packs, three golden legendaries, and a mountain of gold and dust.  The catch is that it will cost you either 1000 gold or $10 to enter.  I'm curious as to how many wins you'll have to get for your money to be worth it.

[pingpongsam]

Haha, this Brawl is for people bad at math. The odds of getting 12 consecutive wins with a constructed deck vs constructed decks is is outrageously low. They are even lower considering the barrier of entry will prevent most scrubs from even trying.
I mean, I could potentially spend $1 on a slot machine and win $1000, too. The odds are roughly the same.

[Rabid]

I think its 12-2 not 12-0 for the top prize.
Still not great, but much easier.

[Jorbles]

They're also punishing the lower tiers of performance too:

This brawl is pretty different. We want it to feel more like a tournament, and so the rewards are weighted heavily towards the high end of wins. The reward for 0 wins is a single pack. If this scares you, you may want to wait for next week's Brawl and just enjoy the fun on Twitch.

[markusin]

They're also punishing the lower tiers of performance too:

This brawl is pretty different. We want it to feel more like a tournament, and so the rewards are weighted heavily towards the high end of wins. The reward for 0 wins is a single pack. If this scares you, you may want to wait for next week's Brawl and just enjoy the fun on Twitch.

This is one scary Brawl considering how strong Midrange Shaman seems to be right now. I should definitely watch others give it a go first.

[Watno]

Haha, this Brawl is for people bad at math. The odds of getting 12 consecutive wins with a constructed deck vs constructed decks is is outrageously low. They are even lower considering the barrier of entry will prevent most scrubs from even trying.
I mean, I could potentially spend $1 on a slot machine and win $1000, too. The odds are roughly the same.

I think it's not that bad. At 5 wins, it is more effective than buying packs. Depending on how few weak players play it, this doesn't seem to unreasonable to achieve, if you're good at constructed, considering that only 2% of players get to rank 5.

Of course it will be very hard for it to be more effective than playing arena, but converting your gold to cards using arena takes a lot of time.

[blueblimp]

Worst brawl ever. Play mode already exists for people who want to play constructed standard-format decks.

[markusin]

Haha, this Brawl is for people bad at math. The odds of getting 12 consecutive wins with a constructed deck vs constructed decks is is outrageously low. They are even lower considering the barrier of entry will prevent most scrubs from even trying.
I mean, I could potentially spend $1 on a slot machine and win $1000, too. The odds are roughly the same.

I think it's not that bad. At 5 wins, it is more effective than buying packs. Depending on how few weak players play it, this doesn't seem to unreasonable to achieve, if you're good at constructed, considering that only 2% of players get to rank 5.

Of course it will be very hard for it to be more effective than playing arena, but converting your gold to cards using arena takes a lot of time.

But you don't get a major return on investment until 9 wins.

The rewards are listed here:
https://www.google.ca/amp/venturebeat.com/2016/10/17/hearthstones-heroic-tavern-brawl-ditches-wacky-rules-for-competitive-play-and-insane-rewards/amp/

[markusin]

Also, do we know if it will be like Arena where you are almost always matched up with someone that has the same amount of wins as you do? If so, then at least someone can be expected to get to 12 wins. If matchmaking is random and not  handled by an MMR then even fewer people might end up past 9 wins than you'd expect in Arena.

[LostPhoenix]

Yellow Brick Brawl!

Each player is given Dorothee, which grants Charge to minions on one side and Taunt to the other. Build a 10 card deck and we'll give you three copies of each!

This is one of my favorite Brawls.
This hunter deck has given me a lot of success, but is probably far from optimized:

Timber Wolf
Kindly Grandmother
Knife Juggler
Scavenging Hyena
Snake Trap
Ancient Watcher
Ice Rager
Light's Champion
Infested Wolf
Savanaah Highmane

Dreadsteed is insane in this brawl. If you put it on the charge side, it's a free board clear every turn. Taunt side, it's an indestructible wall. The Light's Champion is there to counter that.

[KingZog3]

Does anything beat Dreadstead? Silence, but otherwise, voidcaller puts it in taunt spot and you you cant get by with minions.

[ashersky]

Does anything beat Dreadstead? Silence, but otherwise, voidcaller puts it in taunt spot and you you cant get by with minions.

Silence doesn't work.

[markusin]

Does anything beat Dreadstead? Silence, but otherwise, voidcaller puts it in taunt spot and you you cant get by with minions.

Silence doesn't work.

Silence should prevent Dreadsteed from resurrecting, no?

[LostPhoenix]

Does anything beat Dreadstead? Silence, but otherwise, voidcaller puts it in taunt spot and you you cant get by with minions.

Silence doesn't work.

Silence should prevent Dreadsteed from resurrecting, no?

Yes. I've seen people use Cabal Shadow Priest or Shadow Madness as well to counter Dreadsteeds.

[Lekkit]

That's even stronger since you get the Dreadsteed for yourself then.

[XerxesPraelor]

If you can play the leper-gnome creating legendary before you die, it's an OTK vs taunt dreadsteed.

[Lekkit]

Or vs a charge Dreadsteed. If you can reach it.

[markusin]

If you can play the leper-gnome creating legendary before you die, it's an OTK vs taunt dreadsteed.

Definitely gotta try that.

[ashersky]

Does anything beat Dreadstead? Silence, but otherwise, voidcaller puts it in taunt spot and you you cant get by with minions.

Silence doesn't work.

Silence should prevent Dreadsteed from resurrecting, no?

I tried using Druid silences to counter opponent taunts but it didn't work.

[markusin]

Does anything beat Dreadstead? Silence, but otherwise, voidcaller puts it in taunt spot and you you cant get by with minions.

Silence doesn't work.

Silence should prevent Dreadsteed from resurrecting, no?

I tried using Druid silences to counter opponent taunts but it didn't work.

The taunt won't go away as it is granted by Dorothy. The card text on the card itself will be negated. So, you'd have to kill Dreadsteed (or whatever else) one more time after it is silenced to destroy it for good.

[Titandrake]

This Brawl is weird. I'm using a Purify Priest deck. The idea is that the free Taunt gives you more ways to use cards without a Silence activator.

Silence
Zombie Chow
Purify
Ancient Watcher
Auchenai Soulpriest
Eerie Statue
Barnes
Holy Nova
Lightbomb
Ragnaros the Firelord

I won 4 games in a row, although I haven't hit Dreadsteed yet. Zombie Chow is extra nice here because you can normally trade it off without giving the opponent any health.

[blueblimp]

I've been trying something similar. I don't think my list is good, but I must've tanked my brawl MMR since I am getting pretty weak opponents.

PW:S
Ancient Watcher
Purify
Dark Cultist
Eerie Statue
Shadow Madness
Feugen
Stalagg
Entomb
N'Zoth

I think it should lose against a competent Steedlock, unfortunately. Problem is that a shadow madnessed dreadsteed appears on the taunt side. If I have a taunted dreadsteed, then there are a number of infinite damage combos available to the warlock (e.g. steed+flesheating ghoul+ironbeak owl).

(The same would be possible with a non-taunted dreadsteed, except if I had a charged dreadsteed then I could try tweaking the deck to allow pre-emptively using my own combo.)

[LibraryAdventurer]

This brawl is fun (deathrattles happen twice). Been having fun with my Hunter deck. I'll try a priest with mass silence next.
I'm wondering if Weasel Tunneler's deathrattle works twice, putting two of them in the opponent's deck. That'd be hilarious to multiply them.

PS: Weird. I could've sworn someone else had already posted about this brawl. Is something screwy happening with the forums that deleted the last few posts of this thread? Also, I don't understand why my Hearthstone noob thread got locked.

[XerxesPraelor]

Weasel Tunneler has a bug that means that when it happens twice, one goes in your opponent's deck and the other in your deck.

[Awaclus]

Weasel Tunneler has a bug that means that when it happens twice, one goes in your opponent's deck and the other in your deck.

It's not a bug, it's a counterintuitive rules interaction. That is, by the time the Deathrattle has resolved once, the card is in your opponent's deck and that means it's his card and you're now the opponent. This is the same rule that causes the Entomb/Djinni of Zephyrs nombo.

[markusin]

Weasel Tunneler has a bug that means that when it happens twice, one goes in your opponent's deck and the other in your deck.

It's not a bug, it's a counterintuitive rules interaction. That is, by the time the Deathrattle has resolved once, the card is in your opponent's deck and that means it's his card and you're now the opponent. This is the same rule that causes the Entomb/Djinni of Zephyrs nombo.

There is already a Disguised Toast video on the Weasel Tunneler interaction weirdness.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K_Bn3shK8Cs

[yaffle]

This weeks Tavern Brawl seems to be giving out a legendary if you win - me and my lad both got a Ledge ( I got Mukla  ) an epic and a rare which can't be a coincidence can it?

This is only the second Legendary I've got from a pack. The other is the awesome Yogg-Saron.

[Watno]

This weeks Tavern Brawl seems to be giving out a legendary if you win - me and my lad both got a Ledge ( I got Mukla  ) an epic and a rare which can't be a coincidence can it?

It can.

[Awaclus]

I got Alexstrasza. I didn't get an epic though, so at least that much must have been a coincidence.

EDIT: My friend didn't get a Legendary. So yes, it's just a (pretty amazing) coincidence. He did get two Epics though so the rates could just be a little higher than usual.

[markusin]

This weeks Tavern Brawl seems to be giving out a legendary if you win - me and my lad both got a Ledge ( I got Mukla  ) an epic and a rare which can't be a coincidence can it?

It can.

I can confirm that I didn't get a legendary. Got a golden common and a golden rare though, along with another rare.

[LostPhoenix]

I got 40 dust. You guys must be very lucky.

[pingpongsam]

I got 40 dust. You guys must be very lucky.

[Awaclus]

Disclaimer: I haven't watched any HS videos lately so there's probably someone who already thought of this, but I just thought of this today and it's pretty cool.

My deck is as follows:

Ice Lance
Mana Wyrm
Mirror Image
Mistress of Mixtures
Flamecannon
Frostbolt
Sorcerer's Apprentice
Flamewaker
Emperor Thaurissan
Gadgetzan Auctioneer

The idea is to play Thaurissan on turn 6 (or turn 5 with the coin), Sorcerer's Apprentice and Gadgetzan Auctioneer the turn after that, and then you can keep playing an unlimited number of the 1-mana spells that discover cards. If you have a Mana Wyrm or Flamewaker in play, that makes things a lot more convenient, but otherwise you can just discover Ice Lances until they deal enough damage. (Ice Lance used to be Arcane Missiles, but that took way too much time)

So far, I'm quite comfortably 2-0.

[markusin]

Have you considered Ice Block Awaclus? Like, as a possible fail-safe?

[Awaclus]

Have you considered Ice Block Awaclus? Like, as a possible fail-safe?

I considered it, and it probably would have been good, but that was after I had finished doing my Mage related quests so I didn't actually test it out. In the one game that I lost, I think it might have given me some extra time (the main problem was that I didn't draw Emperor Thaurissan so I was 1 turn too late).

[LibraryAdventurer]

(Tavern Brawl where you choose a class and it gives you a level boss from the adventures to play as corresponding to the class you chose.)
The boss you get to play when you chose hunter (the skeletal dinosaur) is sooo fun to play.

[markusin]

(Tavern Brawl where you choose a class and it gives you a level boss from the adventures to play as corresponding to the class you chose.)
The boss you get to play when you chose hunter (the skeletal dinosaur) is sooo fun to play.

Oh damn, didn't think about Skeletal Dinosaur (super pain in the ass boss in Heroic though).

I won with Paladin, who gives you the Chess Boss with a  piece discover hero power. It's kinda funny to see the Chess mechanic up against a more conventional deck.

[KingZog3]

(Tavern Brawl where you choose a class and it gives you a level boss from the adventures to play as corresponding to the class you chose.)
The boss you get to play when you chose hunter (the skeletal dinosaur) is sooo fun to play.

Oh damn, didn't think about Skeletal Dinosaur (super pain in the ass boss in Heroic though).

I won with Paladin, who gives you the Chess Boss with a  piece discover hero power. It's kinda funny to see the Chess mechanic up against a more conventional deck.

The chess pieces are pretty ridiculous. It loses to the evolve lady, but it beats normal deck pretty fast in my experience.

[pingpongsam]

I found Grobbulus (Rogue) to be the most well rounded and fun to play Boss.

[Jorbles]

I wish I'd played the Boss one more, I only played as Warrior (Grim Guzzler) for a quest and it was a mirror match. Should have tried some of the others out.

[blueblimp]

Good brawl this week. You get a Thaurissan effect every turn (every card in hand has its cost reduced by 1).

I'm playing a variant of Malygos Miracle Rogue.

Counterfeit Coin x2
Preparation x2
Sinister Strike x2
Thalnos
Eviscerate x2
Razorpetal Lasher x2
Razorpetal Volley x2
Sap
Shiv x2
Edwin VanCleef x2
Fan of Knives
Shadow Strike
Eater of Secrets
Evolved Kobold x2
Azure Drake x2
Loatheb
Gadgetzan Auctioneer x2
Vanish
Malygos
Valeera the Hollow

[Lekkit]

Two Edwins? He does have win in his name.

[blueblimp]

Good brawl. Pick a 10 card deck (no duplicates). Every turn you discover a card instead of drawing. Ordinary draws draw a 1 mana discover-a-card-in-deck spell instead of drawing from your deck.

Right now I'm running an infinite quest mage, which should be improvable. You replay the quest whenever you finish it, so you get infinite turns.

Open the Waygate
Primordial Glyph
Sorcerer's Apprentice
Arcane Intellect
Frost Nova
Ice Block
Simulacrum
Echo of Medivh
Molten Reflection
Polymorph <--- this is probably the weakest card in deck...

Interesting opponent decks seen: gnomeferatu warlock (which is just RNG whether it hits something important), infinite priest (within one turn, using northshire+radiant elemental). There's an aggressive hunter deck that keeps beating me, but I think it's bad.

Edit: Apparently this is a repeat brawl. Maybe I missed playing it the first time.

[markusin]

Does Gnomeferatu work in this Brawl? Gang Up doesn't seem to. When you replay the quest after it is completed, does it automatically get the reward, or do you have to play 6 more cards?

I got lazy and did the typical Flamewaker shenanigans. I wanted to experiment more with Doomed Apprentice (makes opponent's spells cost one more), but I completed my win 5 Tavern Brawls quest before I got a chance to play it.

I went up against a Mill Rogue, which honestly seemed like the opponent misunderstood the Brawl (and tried the aforementioned Gang Up). Opponent quickly conceded.

[pingpongsam]

I know that Deathlord pulled a minion from my deck but I didn't check to see if it reduced the card count. I'm guessing it did not though I though it did then. I saw a mage casting Arcane Intellect and it produces two Peruses which allow you discover a card from your deck. I was curious about Dancing Swords as well.

[markusin]

I know that Deathlord pulled a minion from my deck but I didn't check to see if it reduced the card count. I'm guessing it did not though I though it did then. I saw a mage casting Arcane Intellect and it produces two Peruses which allow you discover a card from your deck. I was curious about Dancing Swords as well.

Dancing Swords and all those other opponent draws cards give the other player Peruse. Maybe it's coded that drawing cards specifically gives Peruse instead of removing cards from the deck.

[pingpongsam]

I just read it bugs out when the player's deck is less than 3 cards and won't discover any more which is odd since there's a couple discover Priest spells I know allow you to discover when there is only 1 card left in the deck during regular game play.

[ashersky]

Seems to me the requirement for winning is endless decks.  I used Priest (Radiant Elemental + free PW: S) to basically have endless turns, budding Target Dummies then making attack equal to health.

Not sure how you beat that or free mage draw.

[markusin]

That deck-building Tavern Brawl is back.

There was talk on the Hearthstone Reddit about different deck-builders and how much people like them. There was praise for Clank, but one poster said they much preferred Dominion to Clank.

I figured there was an outside chance I recognize the Redditor who posted that, so I checked the username.

werothegreat

lol.

[werothegreat]

That deck-building Tavern Brawl is back.

There was talk on the Hearthstone Reddit about different deck-builders and how much people like them. There was praise for Clank, but one poster said they much preferred Dominion to Clank.

I figured there was an outside chance I recognize the Redditor who posted that, so I checked the username.

werothegreat

lol.

[markusin]

That deck-building Tavern Brawl is back.

There was talk on the Hearthstone Reddit about different deck-builders and how much people like them. There was praise for Clank, but one poster said they much preferred Dominion to Clank.

I figured there was an outside chance I recognize the Redditor who posted that, so I checked the username.

werothegreat

lol.

With any luck, this Tavern Brawl will bring in more fresh blood to Dominion Online, and all those other deckbuilders too I guess.

[blueblimp]

I remembered this brawl being terrible, but it's decently fun this time around. Maybe the different card pool helps.

[markusin]

I rolled the new Hemet during the Brawl. Easy win from there.

So many more cards that generate other cards, except the card generator never goes away, so eventually your deck just becomes a random mess of cards.

[Watno]

It's so stupid a card goes back to your deck regardless of wether you play it.

[markusin]

It's so stupid a card goes back to your deck regardless of wether you play it.

If there was a way to circumvent that, you could thin your deck of your starting cards in a couple of turns.

They could have designed special cards for the starter cards that get shuffled into your deck when played (or when not played), while all other cards get shuffled into the deck either when they are played or when they are not played. Having them shuffled either way makes the brawl a glorified "discover each turn instead of draw" Brawl.

Edit: I mean to say that the starter cards could have been special in that you can't easily get rid of them, while all other cards have a method of removing them from your deck.

[Watno]

Having them shuffled either way makes the brawl a glorified "discover each turn instead of draw and refill your hand every turn" Brawl.

[markusin]

Having them shuffled either way makes the brawl a glorified "discover each turn instead of draw and refill your hand every turn" Brawl.

I'm a bit confused by what you mean here, but I was referring to that other Brawl where you have a deck composed entirely of Bloodsail Raiders, but you discover a card each turn.

[Watno]

I'm refering to the fact that there is no incentive not to play as many of your cards as you can each turn.

[markusin]

I'm refering to the fact that there is no incentive not to play as many of your cards as you can each turn.

Hmm, I'm wondering if it would be better if holding onto cards caused them to be reshuffled, or if playing cards caused them to be reshuffled. Right now the brawl applies both, with makes you want to vomit your hand every time.

[Awaclus]

Every deck is 30 Raven Idols brawl.

Skulking Geist was a lot of fun.

[markusin]

Every deck is 30 Raven Idols brawl.

Skulking Geist was a lot of fun.

For a moment, there is that fear that Skulking Geist can't stop Jade Idol in Wild because of Raven Idol, but then you realize that Skulking Geist also hits Raven Idol.

[Jack Rudd]

So this week's Tavern Brawl seems to make Jade Druid even stronger than it already is, because that's important.

[werothegreat]

So this week's Tavern Brawl seems to make Jade Druid even stronger than it already is, because that's important.

My first game was against a Jade Druid - I think they only put two Jade Idols in their deck.  I beat them with a shitty Priest.

[markusin]

This week's Brawl takes a bunch of decks seen in past tournaments and puts them against each other, with you getting a random one. The kicker is that the decks are in their unnerfed form. You can relive the glory of unnerfed Undertaker in Deathrattle Zoo with 2/1 Leper Gnome and Abusive Sergeant.

[pingpongsam]

Yes, Blade Flurry is amazing in unnerfed form. I had almost forgotten.

[markusin]

So they released the two-card Brawl again, but it feels so different now that it's standard and a lot of the power cards from the last two-card Brawl are not legal like Mechwarper, Ice Block, and even Coldlight Oracle.

So far I tried Baku the Mooneater + Shield Slam on Warrior and Baku + Lesser Jasper Spellstone on Druid. The Warrior beat Mana Wyrm + Arcane Missles, while the Druid beat Naturalize + Ferocious Howl (simply never play Baku) and Benevolent Djinn + Lesser Pearl Spellstone. I like how Baku with Lesser Jasper Spellstone or Shield Slam builds give flexibility of removal + armor gain, and then a late game source of damage in the form of Baku. It's also funny to see Baku's effect activate 15 times in the history bar at the start of the game.

[blueblimp]

Yeah I'm happy Top 2 is back. It's very good this time. So far I'm seeing very high deck diversity.

I'm not even sure what I'd consider the strongest decks:

• Mage obviously has some good ones: Black Cat + Arcane Missiles, Mana Wyrm + Arcane Missiles, Mana Wyrm + Primordial Glyph.
• Druid does well with Naturalize-based decks. I don't know what pairs well with it, though picking a minion seems wise so that you have the option of naturalizing your own minions.
• For Priest, Duskbreaker is pretty great. I got a pretty good winrate pairing it with Thoughtsteal, though there's probably a less greedy way to do it.

[pingpongsam]

Mind blast divine hymn was my pick. Beat a mind blast doomsayer quite handily. Haven’t played since.

[markusin]

Mind blast divine hymn was my pick. Beat a mind blast doomsayer quite handily. Haven’t played since.

There is also Mind Blast + Duskbreaker apparently. That seems good too.

I've heard of some other interesting ones like Murspark Eel + an even card for Shaman and Wax Elemental + Earthen Might for Druid.

[werothegreat]

I did Gibbering Mouther + Shadow Ascendant.  A Twig/Starfire druid got me to like 4 HP then gave up.

[markusin]

Yeah I'm happy Top 2 is back. It's very good this time. So far I'm seeing very high deck diversity.

I'm not even sure what I'd consider the strongest decks:

• Mage obviously has some good ones: Black Cat + Arcane Missiles, Mana Wyrm + Arcane Missiles, Mana Wyrm + Primordial Glyph.
• Druid does well with Naturalize-based decks. I don't know what pairs well with it, though picking a minion seems wise so that you have the option of naturalizing your own minions.
• For Priest, Duskbreaker is pretty great. I got a pretty good winrate pairing it with Thoughtsteal, though there's probably a less greedy way to do it.

For Druid decks, Plated Bettle might be good to pair with Naturalize.

[blueblimp]

I've heard of some other interesting ones like Murspark Eel + an even card for Shaman and Wax Elemental + Earthen Might for Druid.

I ran murkspark decks for a bit. First I tried pairing with Fireplume Phoenix (for no particular reason), then with Faerie Dragon (to counter naturalize decks). They did OK but not that well compared to the other decks I tried.

Earthen Might is a Shaman card. I played someone running Earthen Might Glacial Shard and lost vs it. I didn't get very good results with either the Glacial Shard or Wax Elemental variants, but I didn't play them for very long.

[markusin]

I've heard of some other interesting ones like Murspark Eel + an even card for Shaman and Wax Elemental + Earthen Might for Druid.

I ran murkspark decks for a bit. First I tried pairing with Fireplume Phoenix (for no particular reason), then with Faerie Dragon (to counter naturalize decks). They did OK but not that well compared to the other decks I tried.

Earthen Might is a Shaman card. I played someone running Earthen Might Glacial Shard and lost vs it. I didn't get very good results with either the Glacial Shard or Wax Elemental variants, but I didn't play them for very long.

Ooh wow I was thinking Earthen Scales.

Now that I think about it, Earthen Scales doesn't seem all that good with Wax Elemental.

[pingpongsam]

Got the Druid card quest so picked Naturalize and Ferocious Howl. Destroyed all 4 opponents that came.

[pingpongsam]

The best was the Call to Arms Knife Juggler where I proceeded to Naturalize and burn all his jugglers leaving him with a hand of useless Call to Arms.

[LibraryAdventurer]

I hate mill decks. I resigned as soon as I saw someone play naturalize in this Tavern Brawl. It's just no fun playing against those decks.

[blueblimp]

I hate mill decks. I resigned as soon as I saw someone play naturalize in this Tavern Brawl. It's just no fun playing against those decks.

Well, it's totally sensible to resign auto-lose matchups in this brawl, and there are a lot of matchups like that. It's kind of the point of it, I think.

Some combinations that do well vs Naturalize, if you're looking to win (though I haven't played these all in reality):

Anything with Faerie Dragon wins. For example, Faerie Dragon + Duskbreaker or Murkspark Eel + Faerie Dragon.

Against Naturalize + Ferocious Howl (or other non-minion), Thoughtsteal+Duskbreaker wins. Steal their naturalizes and naturalize each duskbreaker on the same turn you play it. The Druid can't do anything. (Don't play Ferocious Howl.)

Against a Naturalize deck not running healing, any Mind Blast deck should win.

Mana Wyrm + Primordial Glyph felt unbeatable when I played vs it with a Naturalize deck.

Edit: TBH, Naturalize decks feel kind of weak to me. They lose to a lot.

[markusin]

This week's brawl has you spend your hero's health instead of mana for spells. My plan to win was to look for Shadowblade and Pickpocket (echo burgle spell), using Biteweed in the meantime (I still don't own Edwin). Once you play Shadowblade, your hero is immune for the rest of the turn, and then you can keep playing Pickpocket until the cards you get let you win.

[werothegreat]

I just ran an Arcane Artificer burn mage.  Stayed at 30 the whole game.

[markusin]

This week is "block constructed", with only Goblins vs. Gnomes, Grand Tournament, Witchwood, and Boomsday Project being legal. This even excludes basic/classic set.

Of course I just went mech Mage. They were asking for it by including both Boomsday and GvG. It was however insteresting to think about Mage not having access to Frostbolt and Fireball or even Flamestrike. Book of Specters is a great fit for this version of mech mage.

Any other thoughts on this one?

[pingpongsam]

This week is "block constructed", with only Goblins vs. Gnomes, Grand Tournament, Witchwood, and Boomsday Project being legal. This even excludes basic/classic set.

Of course I just went mech Mage. They were asking for it by including both Boomsday and GvG. It was however insteresting to think about Mage not having access to Frostbolt and Fireball or even Flamestrike. Book of Specters is a great fit for this version of mech mage.

Any other thoughts on this one?

I did the same but pretty sure Mech Huner would ahve been a better deck. I didn't care for the brawl so took a 1st game pack and never returned.

[LostPhoenix]

This week is "block constructed", with only Goblins vs. Gnomes, Grand Tournament, Witchwood, and Boomsday Project being legal. This even excludes basic/classic set.

Of course I just went mech Mage. They were asking for it by including both Boomsday and GvG. It was however insteresting to think about Mage not having access to Frostbolt and Fireball or even Flamestrike. Book of Specters is a great fit for this version of mech mage.

Any other thoughts on this one?

I did the same but pretty sure Mech Huner would ahve been a better deck. I didn't care for the brawl so took a 1st game pack and never returned.

I definitely think Mech Hunter is the way to go. The deck normally doesn't use any cards outside of GvG and Boomsday anyway. It can get pretty gross openings. With perfect draws, you can put 28/19 worth of stats on the board on turn 2.

[markusin]

This week is "block constructed", with only Goblins vs. Gnomes, Grand Tournament, Witchwood, and Boomsday Project being legal. This even excludes basic/classic set.

Of course I just went mech Mage. They were asking for it by including both Boomsday and GvG. It was however insteresting to think about Mage not having access to Frostbolt and Fireball or even Flamestrike. Book of Specters is a great fit for this version of mech mage.

Any other thoughts on this one?

I did the same but pretty sure Mech Huner would ahve been a better deck. I didn't care for the brawl so took a 1st game pack and never returned.

I definitely think Mech Hunter is the way to go. The deck normally doesn't use any cards outside of GvG and Boomsday anyway. It can get pretty gross openings. With perfect draws, you can put 28/19 worth of stats on the board on turn 2.

Yes, but I wanted to see Snowchugger back in action.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Yay! A tavern brawl based on my favorite hero power!  (Deathstalker Rexxar)