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Author Topic: Dominion: Populace (Beta)  (Read 3785 times)

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NoMoreFun

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Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« on: June 06, 2015, 11:07:11 pm »
+1

After seeing "Cabal/Turncoat" I got thinking about the idea of cards that give you cantrips. They can be both beneficial and damaging.

There's a deck of 50 cards that's not in the supply. These are the "citizen cards".

All of them have names, and are of the format:

John Smith
Action/Citizen - $X*
+1 Card
+1 Action
---
When you trash this, (beneficial effect), and return it to the citizen pile.
(This card is not in the supply)

X may be anywhere from 2 to 6

Some vague card ideas

Town Hall
Action - $4
+2 Cards
You may play any number of Citizens
---
When you gain this, gain a Citizen from the Citizen pile.

Retrain
Action - $5
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than it, and a Citizen from the Citizen pile.

Tyrant
Action - $5
+4 Cards
Gain a Citizen from the Citizen pile.

Cabal (a card by CookieLord)
Action/Attack - $4
+$2
Each other player discards a Citizen from his hand, or reveals a hand with no Citizens
---
When you gain this, each other player gains a Citizen from the Citizen pile.

Opportunist
Action/Attack - $4
+1 Card
Each player (including you) reveals his hand. If he has fewer citizens in his hand than you, he gains a Curse and a Citizen from the Citizen pile.

Trust
Treasure - $4
Worth $1
+1 Buy
+$2 for each Citizen in your hand.
---
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Citizen from the Citizen Pile. 

Conurbation
Action - $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Citizens produce an extra $1 this turn
---
While this is in play, when you buy a Victory Card, gain a Citizen from the Citizen Pile.

Pristine Land
Victory - $6
Worth 5VP, -1VP for every 2 citizens in your Deck
---
In games using this, if you have any $ remaining at the end of your turn, gain a Citizen from the Citizen pile.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 11:57:25 pm by NoMoreFun »
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AJD

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Re: Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2015, 08:25:19 pm »
0

"Gain a Prize from the Prize pile" means you can pick the one you want. Is this the case for "Gain a Citizen from the Citizen pile"?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2015, 08:44:23 pm »
0

Given that citizens are probably at least as likely to help as to hurt (especially with adding an on-trash benefit), Tyrant sounds way too strong. It's basically Hunting Grounds, or Council Room without +buy and without the huge drawback. 

*Edit* Just realized that one of the things that makes cantrips bad is terminal draw, and Tyrant is big terminal draw. So I was probably wrong; it's actually a really smart idea!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 08:46:11 pm by GendoIkari »
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ChocophileBenj

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Re: Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2015, 09:35:59 am »
0

If you can gain a citizen whose value can be varying from $2 to $6 then :
-either you can choose one and it'll take time, though a solution would be to play with 5 or 10 of them (like Tournament's prizes), all of the selection with the same cost
-or you take the first of the pile and it will be insane.

Also I assume you don't play with all 50 citizens at the same time. It adds diversity into Dominion's diversity but... is it useful to that extent ?

And I find rather immoral the "on-trash benefit" for Citizens. A bit like the "Mining Village" card in fact. Though they always ressurect... well, Dominion isn't supposed to depict a moral world, but... I don't know...
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2015, 08:27:02 am »
0

"Gain a Prize from the Prize pile" means you can pick the one you want. Is this the case for "Gain a Citizen from the Citizen pile"?

Not my intention. Maybe it will be done similarly to looter/ruins.
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werothegreat

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Re: Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2015, 09:54:48 pm »
+1

"Gain a Prize from the Prize pile" means you can pick the one you want. Is this the case for "Gain a Citizen from the Citizen pile"?

Not my intention. Maybe it will be done similarly to looter/ruins.

Phrase it "gain the top Citizen from the Citizen pile."
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2015, 02:32:43 am »
0

"Gain a Prize from the Prize pile" means you can pick the one you want. Is this the case for "Gain a Citizen from the Citizen pile"?

Not my intention. Maybe it will be done similarly to looter/ruins.

Phrase it "gain the top Citizen from the Citizen pile."

Or since Citizens would require setup instructions outside of the card text itself anyway, it could just have the same rules as Ruins. Make them part of the supply, etc.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2015, 08:39:59 am »
0

Nice to see my cards inspired you. You have some interesting ideas, although they are hard to evaluate without knowing all of the citizens potentially available. Can you please answer the following questions:

How many different citizens are there? How many of each kind?
Does the Citizen pile always contain 50 cards, independent on the player count?
Do you always gain a random Citizen? If so, you'd need to include in the rules outside the cards that the Citizen pile gets shuffled each time before you gain a card from it because of the fact that Citizens are returned to it all the time.
Do Citizens have any other on-play effects or are they "just cantrips"?

We need concrete examples of Citizens with all their effects and cost. You wrote their cost may vary from $2 to $6 which suggests there's a huge power gradient among different Citizens. I don't think this a good idea at all because it will make Citizen-giving cards (should be a type for that) extremely swingy. Rather keep them roughly equal in power.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2015, 02:38:29 am »
0

Nice to see my cards inspired you. You have some interesting ideas, although they are hard to evaluate without knowing all of the citizens potentially available. Can you please answer the following questions:

How many different citizens are there? How many of each kind?

As many as I can come up with/whatever would fill out the box. The idea was just giving them different names, but then I thought it would add a bit of variety to give them interesting when trash effects (including different costs) and other things that wouldn't hurt the card. I picked 50 arbitrarily.

Quote
Do you always gain a random Citizen? If so, you'd need to include in the rules outside the cards that the Citizen pile gets shuffled each time before you gain a card from it because of the fact that Citizens are returned to it all the time.
Random Citizen. I'll probably have "return to the bottom of the pile".

Quote
Do Citizens have any other on-play effects or are they "just cantrips"?
They're all "+1 Card, +1 Action" on play.

What I might do is have the text inside the "when trash" be red, for example:
Simon Oliver
Action/Citizen - $3
+1 Card
+1 Action
---
When you trash this, gain a Silver and return this to the bottom of the Citizen Pile

And then a card, like, for example
Celebration
Treasure - $5
Worth $2
Choose one: Gain a Citizen, or perform the red text of a Citizen you have in play.

However it took me a while to think of that card, which makes me think that leaving them as when trash effects is probably fine. I just have other cards with the "red text" idea.

Quote
We need concrete examples of Citizens with all their effects and cost. You wrote their cost may vary from $2 to $6 which suggests there's a huge power gradient among different Citizens. I don't think this a good idea at all because it will make Citizen-giving cards (should be a type for that) extremely swingy. Rather keep them roughly equal in power.
The cost is for TFBs (particularly retrain). May make the range 3-5. The ones with lower costs will have better when trash effects. They are all meant to be roughly equal.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2015, 06:03:57 am »
+2

Nice to see my cards inspired you. You have some interesting ideas, although they are hard to evaluate without knowing all of the citizens potentially available. Can you please answer the following questions:

How many different citizens are there? How many of each kind?

As many as I can come up with/whatever would fill out the box. The idea was just giving them different names, but then I thought it would add a bit of variety to give them interesting when trash effects (including different costs) and other things that wouldn't hurt the card. I picked 50 arbitrarily.

Quote
Do you always gain a random Citizen? If so, you'd need to include in the rules outside the cards that the Citizen pile gets shuffled each time before you gain a card from it because of the fact that Citizens are returned to it all the time.
Random Citizen. I'll probably have "return to the bottom of the pile".

Quote
Do Citizens have any other on-play effects or are they "just cantrips"?
They're all "+1 Card, +1 Action" on play.

What I might do is have the text inside the "when trash" be red, for example:
Simon Oliver
Action/Citizen - $3
+1 Card
+1 Action
---
When you trash this, gain a Silver and return this to the bottom of the Citizen Pile

And then a card, like, for example
Celebration
Treasure - $5
Worth $2
Choose one: Gain a Citizen, or perform the red text of a Citizen you have in play.

However it took me a while to think of that card, which makes me think that leaving them as when trash effects is probably fine. I just have other cards with the "red text" idea.

Quote
We need concrete examples of Citizens with all their effects and cost. You wrote their cost may vary from $2 to $6 which suggests there's a huge power gradient among different Citizens. I don't think this a good idea at all because it will make Citizen-giving cards (should be a type for that) extremely swingy. Rather keep them roughly equal in power.
The cost is for TFBs (particularly retrain). May make the range 3-5. The ones with lower costs will have better when trash effects. They are all meant to be roughly equal.
Celebration could become "Trash a Citizen you have in play. Gain a Citizen."
It's much simpler and mechanically very similar. There's the problem of what kind of celebration kills people, but hey.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Populace (Beta)
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2015, 09:31:33 am »
0

Quote from: Accatitippi link=topic=13387.msg500475#msg500475
Celebration could become "Trash a Citizen you have in play. Gain a Citizen."
It's much simpler and mechanically very similar. There's the problem of what kind of celebration kills people, but hey.

It could just be "you may trash a Citizen you have in play. Gain a Citizen." for most cases, couldn't it?

First i read this so the Citizens are all equal and kind of liked it. I wouldn't mind different on-trash effect so much a i would mind them being differently costed. As i see it, there's no reason to do that besides making luck matter more in tfb games, which isn't such a great reason, after all.
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