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[Twistedarcher]

Vote: Ichimaru Gin His behavior is completely consistent with a hidden voter who was on wagon D1 (so no hidden vote) and off wagon D2 (so there is a hidden vote). Going to re-read him now.

Excellent. It also seems reasonable to assume IG is scum, since he did not vote publicly, barely said anything, etc.

Is there a scenario where IG is not scum?

Yeah, he could just be lurker town. I don't think my case is like super solid or anything, are you sold on him being scum solely because of the hidden voter possibility? Or because of other reasons?

[Seprix]

Vote: Ichimaru Gin His behavior is completely consistent with a hidden voter who was on wagon D1 (so no hidden vote) and off wagon D2 (so there is a hidden vote). Going to re-read him now.

Excellent. It also seems reasonable to assume IG is scum, since he did not vote publicly, barely said anything, etc.

Is there a scenario where IG is not scum?

Yeah, he could just be lurker town. I don't think my case is like super solid or anything, are you sold on him being scum solely because of the hidden voter possibility? Or because of other reasons?

-He's lurking. As town, he tends to talk more.
-Why use hidden vote over a normal vote? It's almost like IG was late on wagon and wanted this to happen, or waited around, or something. I don't understand why town!IG would use his vote here, for example.

There's also the possibility of IG not being the secret voter. I'm certainly not.

[Twistedarcher]

SS has been more absent than is usual for him. I'll join in vote: SS if only for pressure.

Anyone else want to join me in thinking mail-mi is scum? Please?

[Twistedarcher]

Vote: Ichimaru Gin His behavior is completely consistent with a hidden voter who was on wagon D1 (so no hidden vote) and off wagon D2 (so there is a hidden vote). Going to re-read him now.

Excellent. It also seems reasonable to assume IG is scum, since he did not vote publicly, barely said anything, etc.

Is there a scenario where IG is not scum?

Yeah, he could just be lurker town. I don't think my case is like super solid or anything, are you sold on him being scum solely because of the hidden voter possibility? Or because of other reasons?

-He's lurking. As town, he tends to talk more.
-Why use hidden vote over a normal vote? It's almost like IG was late on wagon and wanted this to happen, or waited around, or something. I don't understand why town!IG would use his vote here, for example.

There's also the possibility of IG not being the secret voter. I'm certainly not.

I think this is actually more of a reason for him NOT being a hidden voter. If he could just use his normal vote instead, it really wouldn't have been super scummy for him to jump on the wagon.

[gkrieg13]

Ok so I wanted to look at the wagons from a role/theory perspective to see what could have happened with the wagon yesterday. He didn't flip hated so I'm assuming that isn't true, although I suppose it's not impossible there's a scum hater-fier or something like that who made EgorK hated N1. But that seems unlikely enough to completely discredit.

Here's the D2 final vote count:

2.7 (3): EFHW, hockeysemlan, silverspawn
EFHW (1): witherweaver
EgorK (: UoS, Seprix, chairs, Ghacob, gkrieg13, Hydrad, 2.7
Ghacob (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): TA

Not Voting (2):  IG, EgorK

With 15 alive, it took 8 to lynch.

People who could doublevote:
Seprix, Chairs, Ghacob, gkrieg13, Hydrad, 2.7

People who could be hidden voters:
IG

Vote count 2.7 shows everyone but 2.7 (haha!) on wagon, so if any of these people are double voters, they got to do it only at the end of the day. So it's an active day power rather than a passive day power if these people are scum.

Vote count 2.5 shows 2.7 on me with the normal amount of votes.

Ichi did not vote once yesterday.

Ichi WAS on wagon D1. So this would be consistent with the theory that he's a hidden voter when he's off wagon.

Vote: Ichimaru Gin His behavior is completely consistent with a hidden voter who was on wagon D1 (so no hidden vote) and off wagon D2 (so there is a hidden vote). Going to re-read him now.

I'm not sure I follow why only IG could be the secret voter.  I agree that he has been scummy, but I don't understand why only he could have the secret vote.  I also agree that it sounds like a scum power.

PPE: I feel like IG would use a secret vote only if he had a lot of suspicion on him to maybe draw some of that suspicion off, because he wasn't on the wagon.  I don't get why he would use a secret vote instead of his real vote.

[Twistedarcher]

I don't think SS is lurking more than he has been, but Seprix jumping on him seems more overenthusiastic than anything else to me. SS and Seprix both read townier, while Mail-mi and Hydrad come off MUCH scummier in that exchange to me (especially Mail-mi).

[gkrieg13]

SS has been more absent than is usual for him. I'll join in vote: SS if only for pressure.

Anyone else want to join me in thinking mail-mi is scum? Please?

I already agree with you on that front

[Seprix]

SS has been more absent than is usual for him. I'll join in vote: SS if only for pressure.

Anyone else want to join me in thinking mail-mi is scum? Please?

I agree. I do think SS is suspicious, but it's more me looking for a case. It's not a strong one and I admit that. But no one's reading him, and I want to get something going, you know? Discussion.

PPE [TA]: I'm glad you agree. I'll have to do some thinking about this. I'm certain we can find out who it is.

PPE2 [Gkrieg]:

[Twistedarcher]

I'll sheep that. Vote: Seprix.
I'm not sure I've ever been in a game where someone has a doublevote, but is it more likely to be a scum ability than town?
It seems waaaaaaay more useful for scum than town though. Actually, the wiki seems to weight it more as a town role though.
It also brought up some stuff that I hadn't considered, like the two votes could be made independently with one of them being secret. So the extra vote could theoretically come from someone who was off the EgorK wagon it seems. I wonder about the syntatic implications of that on the vote counts though...

I actually didn't see this post in my re-read, but Ichi considers the possibility of a secret voter here.

[Seprix]

wtf, lol

*PPE [Kreig]: Any ideas on who the secret voter is?

[gkrieg13]

I think one of the earlier major wagons should be lynched today though.  So I guess that's e, or Seprix.  I actually thought that list would be a lot longer.

PPE Seprix:  I don't think it was a double voter.  I think the secret voter is scum and forced the EgorK lynch because e is scum and they were trying to save him.

[chairs]

vote: IG

[gkrieg13]

Never mind just looked at the vote counts again.  I don't understand the secret vote at all.  None of the other wagons were very large and it seems like Egor was going to be lynched anyway.

[Seprix]

I think one of the earlier major wagons should be lynched today though.  So I guess that's e, or Seprix.  I actually thought that list would be a lot longer.

PPE Seprix:  I don't think it was a double voter. I think the secret voter is scum and forced the EgorK lynch because e is scum and they were trying to save him.

Yeah, I figured. So if it's not a double voter, there's just no possible way to know who it is. Maybe it's even e. But it's interesting scum did not use it D1. So I wonder if town has it after all and they believed in scum!EgorK over scum!e, or whether the secret vote is a 1-shot or 2-shot.

[gkrieg13]

vote: IG

reasons?

[Twistedarcher]

I think one of the earlier major wagons should be lynched today though.  So I guess that's e, or Seprix.  I actually thought that list would be a lot longer.

PPE Seprix:  I don't think it was a double voter.  I think the secret voter is scum and forced the EgorK lynch because e is scum and they were trying to save him.

If E's scum, I think there's probably 2 scum (heck maybe even more) in the people who followed UoS' case. It's a super easy way for a teammate of E's to make sure he doesn't get lynched. I'd look specifically at people who weren't on E, since I'd guess that that subset of players would be less likely to bus.

[gkrieg13]

I think one of the earlier major wagons should be lynched today though.  So I guess that's e, or Seprix.  I actually thought that list would be a lot longer.

PPE Seprix:  I don't think it was a double voter. I think the secret voter is scum and forced the EgorK lynch because e is scum and they were trying to save him.

Yeah, I figured. So if it's not a double voter, there's just no possible way to know who it is. Maybe it's even e. But it's interesting scum did not use it D1. So I wonder if town has it after all and they believed in scum!EgorK over scum!e, or whether the secret vote is a 1-shot or 2-shot.

It seems like a really weird time to use it, if it were 1-shot or 2-shot.  Because scum wouldn't need it at that point.  So maybe it is a town!double voter that just wasn't being careful.  I feel like a scum!doublevoter would have used it D1 if e were scum to save him from the lynch.  Maybe they didn't want us to know about it?  I'm actually really confused now...

[Twistedarcher]

Final vote count just before UoS' case:

Vote Count 2.5:

2.7 (4): EFHW, hockeysemlan, silverspawn, TA
TwistedArcher (3):  2.7, Seprix, mail-mi
EFHW (1): witherweaver
mail-mi  (1): gkrieg13
EgorK(1):. UoS

Not Voting (5): IG, Ghacob, Hydrad, EgorK, chairs

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 2 ends on July 17 at 9:00 p.m.

Final D2 vote count:

D2 Final Vote Count:

2.7 (3): EFHW, hockeysemlan, silverspawn
EFHW (1): witherweaver
EgorK (8): UoS, Seprix, chairs, Ghacob, gkrieg13, Hydrad, 2.7
Ghacob (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): TA

Not Voting (2):  IG, EgorK

With 15 alive, it took 8 to lynch.

Well, that narrowed down the pool of people I was looking at by exactly zero people. But honestly if I'm going off this I do think lynching E first would make more sense.

[Seprix]

There are a lot of variables at play here, and I think figuring this shit out is going to be huge. I will look into this, and give my thoughts.

PPE: I will read TA's posts as well, we might be on to something here.

[Twistedarcher]

I think one of the earlier major wagons should be lynched today though.  So I guess that's e, or Seprix.  I actually thought that list would be a lot longer.

PPE Seprix:  I don't think it was a double voter. I think the secret voter is scum and forced the EgorK lynch because e is scum and they were trying to save him.

Yeah, I figured. So if it's not a double voter, there's just no possible way to know who it is. Maybe it's even e. But it's interesting scum did not use it D1. So I wonder if town has it after all and they believed in scum!EgorK over scum!e, or whether the secret vote is a 1-shot or 2-shot.

It seems like a really weird time to use it, if it were 1-shot or 2-shot.  Because scum wouldn't need it at that point.  So maybe it is a town!double voter that just wasn't being careful.  I feel like a scum!doublevoter would have used it D1 if e were scum to save him from the lynch.  Maybe they didn't want us to know about it?  I'm actually really confused now...

I feel like if it's a town doublevoter, they should claim.

[Seprix]

I got it.

Remember how people can like, burn metals and get stuff? My bet is that scum did this N1 and got the double vote D2.

[gkrieg13]

There are a lot of variables at play here, and I think figuring this shit out is going to be huge. I will look into this, and give my thoughts.

PPE: I will read TA's posts as well, we might be on to something here.

I think this is the first thing to happen that might give us some good information.

[gkrieg13]

There are a lot of variables at play here, and I think figuring this shit out is going to be huge. I will look into this, and give my thoughts.

PPE: I will read TA's posts as well, we might be on to something here.

I think this is the first thing to happen that might give us some good information.

meaning the lynch with only 7 people on EgorK.

[Twistedarcher]

Gkrieg, why'd you switch yesterday onto EgorK? You said you liked the case but you were vague on it. Can you be more specific?

I'm heading out for the afternoon, I'll try to post more tonight.

[gkrieg13]

I got it.

Remember how people can like, burn metals and get stuff? My bet is that scum did this N1 and got the double vote D2.

but why use it at that point?  That is what is bothering me.  I can't figure out why scum would use it on a wagon that was likely to go to lynch anyway

PPE:in next post