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[UmbrageOfSnow]

Oh, I have a guess.  If you bolded fewer words I'd have figured it out faster:

I was saying "rather than argue individual points" as in "I disagree that e's calling people out on the Hockey wagon is strange, but we're not going to get anywhere arguing about minutia like that or him townreading Greekriegr"

i.e. I don't find e's logic confusing, but arguing about logic is pointless, the case is really about if his behavior matches scum!e, so let's talk about that.

[EFHW]

To clarify, I am NOT making a meta argument.  That would mean I was thinking about past games and comparing his posts this game to those.  I'm looking just at what he has said and done in this game, and pointing out some patterns that I think indicate he is mafia.

I'm not sure what you are referring to about the hockey wagon, that came up only peripherally in my post.

[EFHW]

And I don't think logic is pointless.  If you think you follow it, that's one thing.  But if something doesn't follow, I think scum pretty fast.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

To clarify, I am NOT making a meta argument.  That would mean I was thinking about past games and comparing his posts this game to those.  I'm looking just at what he has said and done in this game, and pointing out some patterns that I think indicate he is mafia.

I'm not sure what you are referring to about the hockey wagon, that came up only peripherally in my post.

I was under the impression you were considering his past games when looking at all his posts there.  Sorry then.

In a vacuum then, no I don't think e is scummy.

I do know what meta means.  You guys are acting like it's a dirty word.  It isn't.

[EFHW]

To clarify, I am NOT making a meta argument.  That would mean I was thinking about past games and comparing his posts this game to those.  I'm looking just at what he has said and done in this game, and pointing out some patterns that I think indicate he is mafia.

I'm not sure what you are referring to about the hockey wagon, that came up only peripherally in my post.

I was under the impression you were considering his past games when looking at all his posts there.  Sorry then.

In a vacuum then, no I don't think e is scummy.

I do know what meta means.  You guys are acting like it's a dirty word.  It isn't.

I don't think it's a dirty word, it's just not what I was doing.

[EFHW]

I've been stuck in that terrible dillemma where I've gone far too long without posting, but I also don't have any new insights to post about, which I guess is what rereading is good for

I'll do that then

e, TA, UoS, Ghacob, and Hokey

Sounds about right, I'll return at some point

This. I can't say anything more than "lynch e", so well.. that's what I say. I really think that is the best idea, right now.

Upon EFHWs reread his playstyle is very similar to scum!e in hearthstone, especially the whiteknighting bit. I think this is the most solide lynch we're going to get.

maybe this post is what got you thinking meta.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

If either of you want to lay out what exactly the patterns are in a short list, that might be more clear?

The level of hostility is seriously uncalled for by the way.

PPE: Thanks for getting nicer.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

maybe this post is what got you thinking meta.

That could be it, I tend to catch up all at once.

[EFHW]

If either of you want to lay out what exactly the patterns are in a short list, that might be more clear?

The level of hostility is seriously uncalled for by the way.

PPE: Thanks for getting nicer.

I'll do that when I have more time, but I was never feeling hostile.  I'm sorry if my post read that way.

[Seprix]

All's fair in love and mafia, Umbrage. I wouldn't worry.

Again, I need to go do that reread.

[EFHW]

Actually, I think I pretty much summed up what I was trying to say in the last paragraph of my post.  If you still have questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Just isolating it out for later reference.

So, almost all of this case is based on how you read him.  His votes have not been particularly scummy.  There's no one he seems obviously partnered with.  But to me, 2.7 reads as 1. overly defensive and 2. overly cavalier about deciding XP must be scum. Also, his arguments several times didn't make sense to me, when usually I find him pretty coherent.  I also feel like he overdid trying to look towny.  Finally, I think he is doing a lot of white knighting - his consistent defenses of certain people makes me wonder if he picked ahead of time who would be his townreads, and who would be his scumreads.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

So, almost all of this case is based on how you read him.  His votes have not been particularly scummy.  There's no one he seems obviously partnered with.  But to me, 2.7 reads as 1. overly defensive and 2. overly cavalier about deciding XP must be scum. Also, his arguments several times didn't make sense to me, when usually I find him pretty coherent.  I also feel like he overdid trying to look towny.  Finally, I think he is doing a lot of white knighting - his consistent defenses of certain people makes me wonder if he picked ahead of time who would be his townreads, and who would be his scumreads.

See, "overly cavalier" "overly defensive" and "usually pretty coherent", which are your main arguments, all seem like arguments heavily dependent on e's meta.  Which is what I was asking about at first.

Anyway, I disagree because e is actually coherent in his arguments and I don't read him as that defensive.  The cavalier about XP is a good point, but nowhere near enough for me.

I could see the point about e buddying me by the way, I've been a bit on edge about that myself.  But it could also just be normal interaction and thinking a case is bad.  I'm not finding him townie for agreeing with me though.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

In the hope that this gets some people involved, if only through public shaming and bullying...

Seprix 117 posts*
UmbrageOfSnow 104 posts*
--------Not Going Overboard Line--------
hockeysemian 74 posts
silverspawn 72 posts
2.7 65 posts
EFHW 64 posts
TwistedArcher 58 posts
Witherweaver 56 posts
gkrieg13 51 posts
-------Semi-Arbitrary Shame Line-------
Ichimaru Gin 36 posts
EgorK 34 posts
Chairs 32 posts
Hydrad 26 posts
------Oh, He's In This game Line?-------
Ghacob 19 posts
mail-mi 12 posts


* Users with over 100 posts are more likely to have errors since I was doing this quickly and had to count rather than subtract pregame posts from the find results.

I know Mail-mi was V/LA, but still calling him out.  A lot of those 12 are fluff.

[gkrieg13]

In the hope that this gets some people involved, if only through public shaming and bullying...

Seprix 117 posts*
UmbrageOfSnow 104 posts*
--------Not Going Overboard Line--------
hockeysemian 74 posts
silverspawn 72 posts
2.7 65 posts
EFHW 64 posts
TwistedArcher 58 posts
Witherweaver 56 posts
gkrieg13 51 posts
-------Semi-Arbitrary Shame Line-------
Ichimaru Gin 36 posts
EgorK 34 posts
Chairs 32 posts
Hydrad 26 posts
------Oh, He's In This game Line?-------
Ghacob 19 posts
mail-mi 12 posts


* Users with over 100 posts are more likely to have errors since I was doing this quickly and had to count rather than subtract pregame posts from the find results.

I know Mail-mi was V/LA, but still calling him out.  A lot of those 12 are fluff.

Of the people below the shame line, it seems like many of them are being active in other games, at least as far as I am reading other games.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Not I.

[mail-mi]

Sorry. Will reread to give my thoughts now.

[chairs]

In the hope that this gets some people involved, if only through public shaming and bullying...

Seprix 117 posts*
UmbrageOfSnow 104 posts*
--------Not Going Overboard Line--------
hockeysemian 74 posts
silverspawn 72 posts
2.7 65 posts
EFHW 64 posts
TwistedArcher 58 posts
Witherweaver 56 posts
gkrieg13 51 posts
-------Semi-Arbitrary Shame Line-------
Ichimaru Gin 36 posts
EgorK 34 posts
Chairs 32 posts
Hydrad 26 posts
------Oh, He's In This game Line?-------
Ghacob 19 posts
mail-mi 12 posts


* Users with over 100 posts are more likely to have errors since I was doing this quickly and had to count rather than subtract pregame posts from the find results.

I know Mail-mi was V/LA, but still calling him out.  A lot of those 12 are fluff.

Of the people below the shame line, it seems like many of them are being active in other games, at least as far as I am reading other games.

Something something not discussing other games; this is kind of on the edge of that line imho.

[chairs]

(That said, "is active elsewhere in the forum" seems more generic and fine).

[gkrieg13]

(That said, "is active elsewhere in the forum" seems more generic and fine).

You're right. I apologize.

[2.71828.....]

All right. That reread by efhw. Great work. Like, awesome. But, like she said, it is descriptive nor prescriptive.  I did those things. I think they are towny. I have always defended other people when I don't like the case against them. I have always defended myself. Call it overly defensive of you want, but go back and fact check when I started to defend myself. Not until late in the day when I was a strong lynch candidate.

Was I Won't about xp? Yes.

Am I wrong about TA? I don't think so

[hockeysemlan]

I'm getting more and more quiet because I see no reason to change my vote. I want someone from the XP-wagon and I really read this as scum!e in this game. I can't see any other case that is interesting enough, we are still in some kind of random mode where there is few things to really take a stand on. I want this lynch to happen and won't push the game in any other direction just for the cause to be active..

[2.71828.....]

I'm getting more and more quiet because I see no reason to change my vote. I want someone from the XP-wagon and I really read this as scum!e in this game. I can't see any other case that is interesting enough, we are still in some kind of random mode where there is few things to really take a stand on. I want this lynch to happen and won't push the game in any other direction just for the cause to be active..

I think this is much more likely to come from town hockey than scum hockey.

[EgorK]

I'm getting more and more quiet because I see no reason to change my vote. I want someone from the XP-wagon and I really read this as scum!e in this game. I can't see any other case that is interesting enough, we are still in some kind of random mode where there is few things to really take a stand on. I want this lynch to happen and won't push the game in any other direction just for the cause to be active..

Still, do you have thoughts on others? Game won't end after D2 (at least I hope so)

[hockeysemlan]

I'm getting more and more quiet because I see no reason to change my vote. I want someone from the XP-wagon and I really read this as scum!e in this game. I can't see any other case that is interesting enough, we are still in some kind of random mode where there is few things to really take a stand on. I want this lynch to happen and won't push the game in any other direction just for the cause to be active..

Still, do you have thoughts on others? Game won't end after D2 (at least I hope so)

Not any good ones, but my readlist goes like this:

1. mail-mi - null
2. Ichimaru Gin - town
3. Witherweaver - town
4. EgorK - town
5. 2.7 - scum
6. silverspawn - town
7. Hydrad - null
8. Faust - dead
9. Chairs - null
10. Ghacob - null
11. hockeysemian - me
12. Seprix - scum
13. TwistedArcher - town
14. XerxesPraelor - Dead
15. gkrieg13 - null
16. EFHW - town
17. UmbrageOfSnow - null

But really, it's mostly gutfeeling all around, have had some problem getting a feeling around this game. I'm waiting for the crazy stuff to happen. Still feels like D1 or something. Will get more time soon to really dig into what's going on around here, but can't for now unfortunately.