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[XerxesPraelor]

Let's just stop talking on this subject. Find something else scummy, that's not it.

You don't get to tell me why I find you scummy.  That's the reason.

Let's just stop talking on this subject. Find something else scummy, that's not it.

You don't get to tell me why I find you scummy.  That's the reason.

Yeah, that was phrased more rudely than I intended. I apologize.

I do hope you find a better case though, I can't argue against that without more theory trouble.

[Seprix]

Oh forget it. If I say nothing, I'm scum. If I say something, I'm scum. It's just way too much information to handle. I never remember why I vote for people, and I never make good arguments.

[2.71828.....]

I like XP > Kriegermeister, and whoever SS votes for over anything else because he's making a lot of sense to me.

This sounds like town!chairs to me

[Hydrad]

Oh forget it. If I say nothing, I'm scum. If I say something, I'm scum. It's just way too much information to handle. I never remember why I vote for people, and I never make good arguments.

thats how I feel when I play sometimes!

Its great

[EFHW]

Town points to TA for putting in the time and bringing up things I hadn't noticed.  But I really disagree about UoS.  I feel like he has been challenging in a helpful way and is trying to understand what is behind what people are saying, which can be a fruitful method of scum-hunting. 

I did my Seprix reread and didn't come away with anything conclusive.  I still find his switch from XP to gkrieg the scummiest thing - he says now he doesn't know why he did it.  I think he puts a lot more effort into distracting town than scum-hunting, so I'm still ok with his lynch.

I'm warming up to my 2.7 vote.  Initially I thought of it as a communication, but TA pointed out the 1 scum/1 town thing in 237, and it made more sense to me as a scum!construction than it did when I tried to read it as towny.  His defense of UoS is easy to read as fake, though that wasn't my initial response.  His tunneling XP is hard to read.  XP is scummy, AND 2.7 has been pushing his lynch too hard.  Oh no - this is threatening to become a 1 scum/ 1 town argument!  But XP still seems scummy and I'd switch to him.

re: TA's comments on my case against XP, the original linked here for reference

#1 he DID say he was voting gkrieg as the scummiest of the lurkers, #2 makes inferences based on others' behaviors, which it is true isn't a strong argument.  It was part of the picture for me.  #3 no one can deny the wagon-hopping - I'm interpreting it as shopping.  No one has refuted this point.  #4, role-fishing, TA says doesn't lead to XP alone, but really he was the most direct:

Maybe I should do some sort of breadcrumbing.

Does anyone feel somewhat creeped-out? (related to their role)

It's not just the breadcrumbing statement - it's the direct question that follows it. I know scum!me would love to get a discussion like that started.  It would almost inevitably lead to revelations.  Another thing I didn't mention before is his targeting of gkrieg, which feels like someone looking for a mislynch.

So I'm willing to lynch XP, Seprix or 2.7.  Keeping an eye on chairs and hockey - and also silver.  No one else currently stands out as a possible scum read.  Town on UoS, TA, faust (I think), Ghacob.

PPE: 6

[silverspawn]

Oh forget it. If I say nothing, I'm scum. If I say something, I'm scum. It's just way too much information to handle. I never remember why I vote for people, and I never make good arguments.

you have made much more sense in previous mafia games though

[EFHW]

I know I say this a lot, but vote count please!

[silverspawn]

I know I say this a lot, but vote count please!

Unofficial Vote Count:

UmbrageOfSnow (1): Twistedarcher
Seprix (5): gkrieg13, Ghacob, hockeysemlan, silverspawn, Ichimaru Gin
XerxesPraelor (4): e, Witherweaver, EFHW, UmbrageOfSnow
e (1): faust
gkrieg13 (2): mail-mi, chairs
chairs (2): Egork, Seprix
hockeysemlan (2): XerxesPraelor, Hydrad

no guarantees

[silverspawn]

oh and @ash: it's hockeysemlan, that's an 'l' not an 'i'

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.7:

XP (3):  2.7, Witherweaver, UoS
chairs (1):  EgorK
Seprix (5):  gkrieg13, Ghacob, hockey, silverspawn, Ichimaru Gin
gkrieg13 (3):  Mail-mi, chairs, Seprix
hockeysemlan (2):  XP, Hydrad
2.7 (3):  faust, efhw, TA

Not Voting (0):

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on July 9 at 1:00 a.m. forum time.

[Ghacob]

Just got back and read like 5 pages, I'm also out of time, so I'll continue with responses tomorrow

Ghacob as scummy as hell, but after Hearthstone mafia I would be more suspicious would he be towny

poor play is not scum play
but uh yeah actually, you'll probably be the first to notice when I get my first scum role, because I might actually start playing Well!

crap no time uh
ss why
ssssss

[Twistedarcher]

I feel like any of the non-vanilla roles could say something like "you are the survivor-aligned ____". 

And yet you're pretty much confirmed not town? What are you even talking about?

Can you explain this? How is he confirmed not town?

[Twistedarcher]

I disagree with you on XP, also.

Could you elaborate on this?

He's one of my townier reads at this point and I don't want to lynch him. First, I didn't like EFHW or 2.7's case on him, and while that says more about them than about XP, it's definitely enough to nudge me the other direction. I get basically nothing from the breadcrumb. Mostly though, while I disagree with #190 and the case on Faust, I think it's fairly towny in thought. I definitely hunt for inconsistencies as town, especially D1 when there's not a lot to go off of, so the fact that he's looking for these reads towny to me.

He's one of my top town reads today, but granted it's D1, so that can change. But I'd rather vote most people in the game than him today.

[Twistedarcher]

Not sure how long I'll be around tomorrow and I want my vote somewhere useful. vote: seprix

[Seprix]

I feel like any of the non-vanilla roles could say something like "you are the survivor-aligned ____". 

And yet you're pretty much confirmed not town? What are you even talking about?

Can you explain this? How is he confirmed not town?

I meant Vanilla Town.

[hockeysemlan]

oh and @ash: it's hockeysemlan, that's an 'l' not an 'i'

(When Ash gives you a name, you stick with the name. I actually like the sound of hockesemIan ^^)

Seprix seems too go along some kind of martyre-lane here. I don't really recognize him from the games I've read with him. He wasn't "bad" in those, a bit silly yes, but not confused like this. I'm happy with my vote.

[Seprix]

oh and @ash: it's hockeysemlan, that's an 'l' not an 'i'

(When Ash gives you a name, you stick with the name. I actually like the sound of hockesemIan ^^)

Seprix seems too go along some kind of martyre-lane here. I don't really recognize him from the games I've read with him. He wasn't "bad" in those, a bit silly yes, but not confused like this. I'm happy with my vote.

Not trying to make excuses for myself, but I have been operating on little sleep for a week, with a lot of college stuff due very shortly and tons of work. It's all pretty much over, I just have to finish up this one paper, and then it'll lighten up for awhile.

[Seprix]

Oh, wait. That IS an excuse. Well, it's a damn good one, because it's true.. DX

[faust]

Well, yeah, stop pushing this. Every question I answer for you makes it a balancing act for me not to reveal anything about my role, and there's very little benefit to it.

I was explaining why I found your reaction scummy.

And unless your role is "allowed to quote mod PMs" or "Can declare someone to be modkilled" none of this is about revealing your role.  Unless your role is scum.

Me trying to read you is absolutely a benefit to me.  And other people being able to read this and figure out if they find your thought process scummy or towny is helpful for town as a whole.

Show me where I'm pressing you about anything actually related to your role.  And I don't mean that as "explain your role".  This whole conversation has been completely unrelated to the specifics of any role as far as I can tell.  And you're being weirdly defensive about it.

Mostly in the form of accusing people who push you.  It's scummy.

Obviously you don't understand my reasons. Which is good. Because if you did, I would have already said too much.

I refuse to say anything else on the subject.

[faust]

I just reread all of the posts and Seprix still seems very scummy to me. 
1. He seems to change his vote around a lot at the beginning.
2. He makes a big deal about other people slipping something about their role.
3. When the wagon starts on him, he starts posting a lot less.  This seems like a scum thing to do so that people start talking about other people and the wagon goes off of him. 
I'm keeping my vote on him because I feel like XP and hockey are town, as well as chairs at this point.

PPE:1

1 and 2 are not really scum tells. 3 is an okay point. I mean I could do Seprix I guess, but I'm not really hot about that lynch.

[faust]

#287 UoS votes Faust for pushing PR/VT discussion. Second time he's voted for setup stuff. Seems to be scumhunting based on setup, not on reads. NOTE to self -- lookback and see where he's had actual reads.

My quick scan of all of UoS' posts is definitely enough for a Vote: UoS . All of his gameplay has been centered around roles and setups (not talking about them explicitly, but rather voting and suspecting the people (XP, Faust) who have driven discussion in that direction). These read as more policy positions than actual reads though. He's been able to skate by D1 based solely on driving XP and Faust, rather than commenting on the actual gameplay-driven wagons (Seprix, Gkrieg come to mind, maybe others?) He's definitely not participating in any parts of the game that require him to put down opinions and I think is playing a very background game in terms of actually working towards a correct lynch based on gameplay, even while maintaining high activity levels.

(Also, XP over Gkrieg is probably clear, given his past suspicion).

I know this might not be a feasible lynch and I'm definitely going to move my vote elsewhere if it's not going to happen today, but I'm interested in what others have to say. It looks like he's gotten mostly town reads thus far.

Interesting. I thought UoS was driving the discussion forward, and had a reasonable position re:claiming stuff. I didn't really notice that he didn't do much else. That's certainly not great.

[faust]

I'd probably do UoS over any of the existing wagons. But I prefer e for now. At least until I'm caught up.

[faust]

Ok, I like UoS.  (as town)

1) He thinks giving passes out is ridiculous and had his brilliant satirical D1 pass for everyone (except 4 people) post.
2) He thinks discussing PRs D1 is ridiculous
3) He has been consistent and active

Yeah, I don't see much scum there at all.

Cool, here's one scum read defending the other. Eh, it makes me prefer e, because this makes e scum/UoS town and e scum/UoS scum more likely while making e town/UoS scum less likely.

[faust]

Want to lynch:
UoS, Seprix, 2.7

Would lynch:
Ghacob, Hockey, gkrieg, EFHW

Would lurker lynch, null reads
Mail-mi, Ichi, WW, EgorK, Hydrad

Won't lynch:
Silverspawn, Faust, Chairs, XP

I like this list. Though in the lower tiers I'd probably shift things around a bit... it would then look like this:

Want to lynch:
UoS, 2.7

Would lynch:
Seprix, chairs, Egor, WW

Would lurker lynch, null reads
Ghacob, Mail-mi, Ichi, Hydrad, EFHW

Won't lynch:
Silverspawn, TA, Xerxes, hockey, gkrieg

[faust]

I feel like any of the non-vanilla roles could say something like "you are the survivor-aligned ____". 

And yet you're pretty much confirmed not town? What are you even talking about?

This post. What does it mean?