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[silverspawn]

(not that I engage in such mundane things, but just sayin')

[UmbrageOfSnow]

(not that I engage in such mundane things, but just sayin')

I mean, I've been on the internet before.  I don't know how much there is out there, but I don't think any amount is really unbelievable.  Anyway, what two consenting sentient beings get up to is their own business.

Regarding what sentient beings in this game are up to, are you actually townreading Faust, or just unwilling to lynch him Day 1 on policy?

If you're townreading him, what do you think the reason he reacted the way he did is?

PS: It feels like half of the players have a Day 1 pass on policy here, seems a really easy way for scum to protect their partners without committing to it.

[silverspawn]

Regarding what sentient beings in this game are up to, are you actually townreading Faust, or just unwilling to lynch him Day 1 on policy?

I mean, I think not lynching faust day 1 as a rule will always be a pro town thing to do, so I'm not sure if 'policy' is the right word, but I guess it depends on terminology. I'd say I have a mild town read on him.

If you're townreading him, what do you think the reason he reacted the way he did is?

Well, let's see.

Re: Chairs. The thing I find most problematic about the "slip" is that he mentions "Suvivor-aligned". And yet the standard VT PM does not say that town is "Survivor-aligned". That's what makes it look bad in my opinion.

this makes a lot of sense

We had a page 1 PR claim.  You could have explicitly asked him how the PR PM was phrased regarding "Survivor-aligned".  You'd still have outed yourself as not-PR, which you were doing anyway.  But you'd have avoided getting any reactions from anyone else.

Town would want to avoid getting role-indicative reactions from town.  Scum would want to get them.

You did something very pro-scum here.

I think answering such a question would violate game rules and potentially result in the player answering this being modkilled. Doesn't sound very pro-town to me.

this also makes sense

Oh, and Faust, as no one got modkilled over the actual discussion of PMs we had in this game, why do you think XP or any of the other claimed PRs would have been modkilled for mentioning the same phrasing?

this isn't really what faust said. his point was that if someone asked a towny over a specific phrasing in his pm as you suggested that might have resulted in a modkill.

Then you say this

I mean, yeah, sure, maybe faust could have asked in such a way that answering would not have resulted in a modkill. but I don't find anything he said to be illogical.

so *shrugs* I don't see anything scummy about faust.

[hockeysemlan]

I still think hockey continues to be scummy. But this is scummy too:

Although I currently find gkreig scummy, I'm going to give him the good ol' D1 pass

I'm willing to give gkrieg a chance seeing as it's his first day, not just for policy, but because it'd be a shame to lynch confused!town, and we can always lynch new!scum tomorrow.

The other thing that I was trying to say was that my top scumreads(read: not strong) were voting for gkrieg, which would mean either:
-a very early bus (not very likely)
-gkrieg is an easy town target D1 (hope my words make sense with that, as it's important)(more likely)

culminating to a null read on gkrieg, I'll make a decision on whether I want to lynch him or not not today

- inconsistent
- disingenuous town read (call this one a gut reaction)
- empathizing that it's not just for policy... okay, this could be a town thing, but I generally think doing things for blatant policy is a towny thing to do for newer players and a scummy or neutral thing for experienced players
- overexplaining votes

This is a weak case. I read his post as how town!ghacob were in hearthstone and scumreading people based on their stye is.. well, it's not very good. This isn't scumhunting from your side, it's scumpainting. Your case on me is, I don't know, it's also totally uncalled for anyhow.. 

And how convenient, both your targets- me and Ghacob- are fairly new players so you can mess with us how much you like without anyone else really noticing anything. Mesh. You're the one who's scummy here..

Although, Staying with my vote on chairs however because of that picture 

[hockeysemlan]

(the size, not the motive i might add. don't want to get outside game-silver upset or anything..)

[silverspawn]

I still think hockey continues to be scummy. But this is scummy too:

Although I currently find gkreig scummy, I'm going to give him the good ol' D1 pass

I'm willing to give gkrieg a chance seeing as it's his first day, not just for policy, but because it'd be a shame to lynch confused!town, and we can always lynch new!scum tomorrow.

The other thing that I was trying to say was that my top scumreads(read: not strong) were voting for gkrieg, which would mean either:
-a very early bus (not very likely)
-gkrieg is an easy town target D1 (hope my words make sense with that, as it's important)(more likely)

culminating to a null read on gkrieg, I'll make a decision on whether I want to lynch him or not not today

- inconsistent
- disingenuous town read (call this one a gut reaction)
- empathizing that it's not just for policy... okay, this could be a town thing, but I generally think doing things for blatant policy is a towny thing to do for newer players and a scummy or neutral thing for experienced players
- overexplaining votes

This is a weak case. I read his post as how town!ghacob were in hearthstone and scumreading people based on their stye is.. well, it's not very good. This isn't scumhunting from your side, it's scumpainting. Your case on me is, I don't know, it's also totally uncalled for anyhow.. 

And how convenient, both your targets- me and Ghacob- are fairly new players so you can mess with us how much you like without anyone else really noticing anything. Mesh. You're the one who's scummy here..

Although, Staying with my vote on chairs however because of that picture 

ahm, so, first of all, my case wasn't based on personal style. Secondly, I believe that cases on personal style are generally worth more not less than cases in a vacuum, and I don't understand where the dislike towards meta arguments is coming from.

You're the one who's scummy here..

Although, Staying with my vote on chairs however because of that picture 

vote: hockey

[silverspawn]

let's just lynch hockey today... for realsies.

[silverspawn]

can mess with us

what does that even mean

[Hydrad]

oh lots of posts happened again. reading them now!

[XerxesPraelor]

I feel confident sheeping Silverspawn here.
vote: hockey

[gkrieg13]

I just reread all of the posts and Seprix still seems very scummy to me. 
1. He seems to change his vote around a lot at the beginning.
2. He makes a big deal about other people slipping something about their role.
3. When the wagon starts on him, he starts posting a lot less.  This seems like a scum thing to do so that people start talking about other people and the wagon goes off of him. 
I'm keeping my vote on him because I feel like XP and hockey are town, as well as chairs at this point.

PPE:1

[gkrieg13]

also vote count please

[Hydrad]

i caught up.

ss is making sense I think

Vote: hockey

[Hydrad]

also someone mentioned 2 days left for D1? that feels short for some reason. But I guess we are starting to figure things out.

[Hydrad]

To be honest I probably would have played better if I had been scum because I would have been able to ask them all of my questions privately instead of having to ask everyone as a whole.

also don't worry about it! your doing better then I think i was for questions my first game. I basically bombarded everyone with questions.

[Hydrad]

I prefer hockey over ghacob though. I'm not getting as many scum vibes as silverspawn is about ghacob.

[hockeysemlan]

can mess with us

what does that even mean

Five votes, man, that's around just provoking aka "mess with someone"- but ah, shouldn't care, made my case with you I think. Scumread me as much as you like, but you can't lynch me alone- despice how many times you vote, y'know.

PPE: gk speaking sense. I like it. Vote: Seprix

Ok. Your not alone anymore. Good luck with it.

[Hydrad]

I thought i should do one of these for some reason. not to much thought has gone into this but figured it can't hurt

1. mail-mi - forgot he was here actually. null
2. Ichimaru Gin - don't remember to much from him either - null
3. Witherweaver - can't remember to much either - null
4. EgorK - wow null again is this just me? i guess 17 people is a bunch
5. 2.7 - hey i remember him! slight town
6. silverspawn - seems town
7. Hydrad - IC
8. Faust - town
9. Chairs - town
10. Ghacob - slight scum
11. hockeysemian - scum
12. Seprix - medium scum (i don't fully know why for this one. I'll probably have to reread him again to understand that one)
13. TwistedArcher - don't remember much null
14. XerxesPraelor - i remember XP buuut still null
15. gkrieg13 - slight town (not because of day1 pass)
16. EFHW - towny
17. UmbrageOfSnow - towny

hmm thats a bunch of nulls. I'm not sure if thats because I havn't been putting a super ton of time into this game or what but i should try to fix that.

[Twistedarcher]

Hey all. I was initially super confused by this game, and honestly until I re-read it today I didn't have a clue as to what was going on or who I found scummy. I just did a re-read of the entire thread taking notes, I'll post my notes in the next page. It definitely is a decent amount of text, and I'll try to format it so it's slightly readable, but I figured I might as well throw it up for anyone who wanted to take a look at some of the highlights of D1 (from my point of view).

[Twistedarcher]

Things of note D1. I've made notes for myself on things I want to look into further, I'll get to those in a few moments.

#75: Gkrieg Newbie 'Can people post in QTs' question

#77/78: Seprix vote Gkrieg, asks clarifying question. Unvote in #81

#82 UoS votes XP for claiming PR.

#84 UoS challenges Seprix for unvoting. NOTE -- see what reaction Seprix has (Answered below in #108, he has no reaction initially).

Nothing until #97, UoS continues to prod into XP.

#108 Seprix challenges EgorK's vote on UoS, saying "He is asking the right questions and saying the right stuff". It's probably true, but it's also an EXTREMELY easy vote to take.
- Seprix doesn't respond to #84, even though he clearly read the post (re: views on UoS). FoS to Seprix for this.


#117 UoS keeps talking about the breadcrumbing by XP. Later on he pushes Faust for going into PRs, but it looks like he's doing the same here.

#119 Weird survivor-aligned post by Chairs

#121 gkrieg agrees with #119(still only newbie-viewpoints as only thing to stick out thus far). Voted by SS in #120. Support by Ichi is #130.

#138 Seprix post -- Fishy to me. "Chairs!scum is something I can see easily" -- the way it's worded has me weirded out. It's like he wants to support the narrative (and thus lynch him), but he says it in a way that he can easily flip to 'oh yeah, it can be a scum narrative, too'

#139 Hydrad -- chairs is "slight town" -- easy non-committal post when Hydrad isn't posting anything of substance.

#167 SS votes Seprix for being jokey and easy to fabricate posts. I too find Seprix scummy up to this point, but I don't agree with the first point and only partially the second. NOTE -- ask Silverspawn for more clarification on what posts are "easy to fabricate"

#168 UoS keeps driving home the breadcrumb point.

#169 Chairs votes Seprix, #172 Seprix calls Chairs scum -- NOTE to self -- see if Seprix had an opinion on Chairs before the vote. Seprix continues on Chairs in #175 and #184. What was the initial reaction to the 'townslip'? (#184 says it "reeks of intentionality")
Gkrieg, Ghacob jump on Seprix wagon. Ghaboc reason is making too big a deal of the slip.

#190 XP vote for Faust I don't agree with at all. But it's an 'inconsistency' vote I think comes more likely from town from scum, even if it's wrong. So townpoints to XP.

#198 Ha, apparently drunk me disagrees with re-reading me about Seprix.

#200 Faust votes Chairs for 'townslip', starts the whole VT/PR debacle. Hockey and EgorK follow up with votes. SS disagrees. XP agrees.

#206-209 -- Catchup posts by WW. These always read scummier to me (I know Shraeye ALWAYS did them, and I ALWAYS found them scummy.) Non-commital on Chairs though, and I expect lurking scum absolutely wants to get a strong opinion down one way or the other, so slight town points here.

#237 2.7 votes XP, says "1 scum/1 town". I don't follow this and I find 2.7 scummy for it. especially if xp is town there's no reason to draw this link. Gkrieg, EkorK follow. Seprix follows in #270.

#242- 245 More catchup from WW. NOTE to self -- ask WW for more concrete reads before day is over.

#263 Hockey says pushing lurkers is scummy. If he's scum I expect more partners in the lurkers.

#271 Weird post by gkrieg that gives me weird vibes. Also contradicts #239??? NOTE to self -- look at this. SS agrees this is weird

#285 Faust says XP townier, 2.7 scummier, probably in reaction to #237

#287 UoS votes Faust for pushing PR/VT discussion. Second time he's voted for setup stuff. Seems to be scumhunting based on setup, not on reads. NOTE to self -- lookback and see where he's had actual reads. Mail-mi agrees (with me? with UoS? Gah! Take better notes!).

#340 SS continues to push gkrieg, doing complete re-read. Chairs follows in #356. Seprix in #358

#360 Post by EFHW with 4 reasons voting XP. #1 disputed by XP, #2 doesn't talk about XP at all. #4 doesn't mean lead to XP alone, so why him? Looks liek bad reasons to fit into a scumread. Scummy on EFHW.

#366 Hedgehedgehedge by Hockey

#370 Pointed this out already, but scum points to people for policy = scummy. Slight scum on Ghacob here.

#393 Slight town points to Faust just based on tone here.

#406 Looks like a pretty inflated case to me, I'm not buying it at all.

#436 UoS continues to post about setup and roles

#438 UoS' reads on leading wagons. Definitely leaning XP over Gkrieg NOTE -- ask why, he doesn't explain.

[Twistedarcher]

#169 Chairs votes Seprix, #172 Seprix calls Chairs scum -- NOTE to self -- see if Seprix had an opinion on Chairs before the vote. Seprix continues on Chairs in #175 and #184. What was the initial reaction to the 'townslip'? (#184 says it "reeks of intentionality")

Just checked this out -- Seprix had Chairs as scummy before the vote. So that relieves a bit of my suspicion on Seprix, although I still found some of his other stances scummy.

[Twistedarcher]

#167 SS votes Seprix for being jokey and easy to fabricate posts. I too find Seprix scummy up to this point, but I don't agree with the first point and only partially the second. NOTE -- ask Silverspawn for more clarification on what posts are "easy to fabricate"

Silverspawn, do you mind elaborating on what posts by Seprix were "easy to fabricate"?

You're also not on Seprix currently -- are you still scummy on him? What's your viewpoint here? Apologies if it's been stated recently, but it's just impossible to remember the current thoughts of 17 people.

[Twistedarcher]

#242- 245 More catchup from WW. NOTE to self -- ask WW for more concrete reads before day is over.

WW, do you mind putting up a reads list? I have trouble getting a read on people who do "catch-up" style posting with quick observations. A reads list would be a good push in the right direction.

[Twistedarcher]

#271 Weird post by gkrieg that gives me weird vibes. Also contradicts #239??? NOTE to self -- look at this. SS agrees this is weird

Gkrieg, can you explain the difference between the following two posts? You didn't have any other posts between -- why the change? And which is closer to your current position on XP?

Actually, I like vote: xp

Mentioning his pm as a defense of chairs then voting him? I could totally see 1 scum/1 town here and I think xp is more likely the scum

Now that I look at it, that does seem weird...

I feel like XP and chairs are both town at this point. I don't understand the vote for me though. Both because it's against tradition to lynch me and because I don't understand what I've done that is scummy. I also feel like I don't have enough information yet to figure anything out. That's why I haven't been posting. Didn't feel like I could add anything yet.

[Twistedarcher]

#438 UoS' reads on leading wagons. Definitely leaning XP over Gkrieg NOTE -- ask why, he doesn't explain.

UoS, why XP over Gkrieg?