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Author Topic: Some trashing-based cards  (Read 2453 times)

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GeeJo

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Some trashing-based cards
« on: June 06, 2015, 04:56:44 am »
+9

Sheriff


Quote
+$2. Each other player puts the top card of their deck face-up onto their Sheriff mat. If it is a Gold, trash it and that player discards all other cards on their Sheriff mat. You gain all cards trashed this way. Cards on Sheriff mats are returned to their owner's deck at the end of the game. Action-Attack for $5.

A Thief variant on the right side of the law. Sheriffs will confiscate your enemies' goods until such time as they're able to pay a hefty bribe to get them back. Much like Thief, this is actively bad at the start of the game; it thins out their deck and doesn't benefit you beyond its +$2. Later on, it disrupts engines and takes cash from money decks. And, of course, they might not even *want* to get their stuff back, as it suddenly floods their deck back up with the crap that the Sheriffs had to that point been keeping in their cells.

It plays reasonably well. It's not a tremendously strong attack, but the +$2 is always relevant, and it can net you some nice cash later in the game.



Renovate


Quote
+$1, +1 Buy. Reveal the top two cards of your deck. You may trash one of them. If you do, gain a copy of the other if it is not a Victory card. Discard the revealed cards. Action for $3.

Can be reasonably good in diverse decks. Safe at $3 as getting two early does very little good. The "non-victory card" rider is very much necessary. Copper into Colony is a bit swingy, otherwise. And as a side-benefit it allows you to potentially trash Copper on turn 3, if it turns up Copper/Estate.



Werewolf


Quote
+3 Cards, +$2, each other player discards down to 3 cards. If a Silver was discarded this way, trash this. Action-Attack for $5.

A Smithy and a Militia rolled into one, but you're not going to have it around for long. The best comparison is to Pillage rather than Militia, to be honest - it's a disposable attack and was designed to be such. The original intent of this card was actually as a "Trainer". I've found that when people start out playing Dominion, after the initial "buy cards randomly" phase, they go through a long phase of buying only actions and ignoring cash altogether. The mere presence of Werewolf convinces many to buy a few Silvers when they otherwise would be buying Villages from turn 1, and surprises them with how useful cash actually is.

That said, this card is *slightly* political in multiplayer, as each player discards in turn and has to make the decision of whether to discard their silver or hope someone else down the line does it for them.



Baroness


Quote
+$2. You may trash an Estate from your hand. If you do, gain a Duchy. Action for $3

A little bland on the face of it, and there are boards where it plays out that way. On the other hand, it does have some interesting interactions with a number of other cards, from Dukes to Barons to any of the various TfB cards out there, and works quite nicely in Gardens decks as emptying the Estates now has the possibility of emptying Duchies at the same time. And, in a vacuum, upgrading your starting Estates to Duchies isn't a bad move either on a board with no other trashing, especially attached to a terminal Silver. It might be worth looking at putting the gained Duchy right back into your hand, but the cases where this is relevant aren't common enough for the extra wordiness.



Redistrict


Quote
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than the trashed card. Each other player must either discard a card costing exactly the same as the trashed card, or reveal a hand containing no such cards. Action-Attack for $4.

It's a Remodel-Attack. This one still needs some tinkering and playtesting. It could possibly go up to $5 and upgrade by $2, but it becomes a completely different card by doing so (it reopens up the Gold => Province road, while denying opponents a Gold at the same time. This seems...strong). The current iteration starts out as a Cutpurse variant, offering you Copper trashing rather than terminal Silver. Later, it provides some disruption and minor upgrading. I'm not sure about it.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 05:06:03 am by GeeJo »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Some trashing-based cards
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2015, 12:45:21 am »
+1

I like Baroness. It's simple and doesn't look like much (not from the text anyway...), but definitely can be worthwhile for $3.
Renovate seems very luck-dependant (unless you have cards that arrange the top of your deck). And when you can set up a copper-grant market reveal, it can be very strong. It looks too swingy to be fun in most circumstances.
Sheriff is interesting. Looks worth trying out as-is. (but I wouldn't say he's on the right side of the law when he takes bribes...)
Werewolf might be a little too strong, even if it's likely to be trashed. Maybe it'd be better with +2 Cards, +$2 with the attack. I guess you'll find out with testing.

GendoIkari

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Re: Some trashing-based cards
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2015, 01:58:23 am »
0

I would remove the last sentence from Sherrif. It's already a lot of text, and the sentence doesn't change the card at all. All set side cards are still part of your deck for end game purposes. 2 real cards that set stuff aside have that sentence, a huge number of other real cards do not.

Anyway, I wonder how this card will play against a deck with no or few Gold. At that point it just becomes "trash the top card of each other player's deck" except that you don't take away their VP if it hits a victory card. Still, could be very powerful or swinging.
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GeeJo

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Re: Some trashing-based cards
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2015, 02:29:39 am »
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Werewolf might be a little too strong, even if it's likely to be trashed. Maybe it'd be better with +2 Cards, +$2 with the attack. I guess you'll find out with testing.

You know, it's funny. That version (+2 Cards, +$2, discard) was the first version I tried out way back in the day. The response on Reddit was that it was irredeemably awful and nobody would buy it. I think you're right that in a vacuum it might be a little strong, but in reality the self-counter is obvious and easy enough that it warps the playstate towards it. In Kingdoms where Werewolf is a thing, people buy noticeably more Silver than normal as a response. Which was the entire reason I made it, originally.

Renovate seems very luck-dependant (unless you have cards that arrange the top of your deck). And when you can set up a copper-grant market reveal, it can be very strong. It looks too swingy to be fun in most circumstances.

You're right, it's very luck dependent. Which isn't *necessarily* a bad thing - Treasure Maps are a fun strategy every once in a while. The problem with Renovate is that it so often does nothing, which is frustrating. Either it's turning up two identical cards, or it turns up two that you don't want to trash either. The only boards where it's worthwhile are where it's a handy source of +Buy with an occasional extra effect.

Some semblance of the idea could be salvaged by upping the cost to $5, revealing the two and giving you the option of trashing or gaining either or both. But then it's just a Jester variant that hits yourself. I think this one's a miss, really.

Quote from: GendoIkari
I would remove the last sentence from Sherrif. It's already a lot of text, and the sentence doesn't change the card at all. All set side cards are still part of your deck for end game purposes. 2 real cards that set stuff aside have that sentence, a huge number of other real cards do not.

You're right that I was thinking of Island and Native Village, where Prince and Tavern mat cards don't use that line of text. Glad to be reminded that it's un-necessary, as the card is a bit verbose.

Quote from: GendoIkari
Anyway, I wonder how this card will play against a deck with no or few Gold. At that point it just becomes "trash the top card of each other player's deck" except that you don't take away their VP if it hits a victory card. Still, could be very powerful or swinging.

It's reasonably strong against such decks, but no stronger than, say, the Knights. And like the Knights, there is a counter built-in. In practice, it's not a problem. You do actually want cards to shine under ideal circumstances, or there's no point making them.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 03:07:35 am by GeeJo »
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Accatitippi

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Re: Some trashing-based cards
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2015, 04:24:32 am »
+2

I like them! (in particular Werewolf, Sheriff and Baroness)
Re: werewolf politics: what about having the other players discard simultaneously? It still lends to some mindgames, but less "over the table" than having people discuss (read: whine) on who shall kill the werewolf. Not sure if it's worth the hassle.
Another (overwordy) option could be:
"If a Silver was discarded this way: trash this, and all other players who did not discard a Silver gain a Curse." A sort of final salve of the Werewolf in MP games.
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markusin

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Re: Some trashing-based cards
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2015, 08:35:24 am »
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Overall I find these cards interesting, even if they might need tweaks after play testing. In particular I like Baroness.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Some trashing-based cards
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2015, 01:22:04 am »
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How about this?
Quote
Werewolf
Cost $5 - Action / Attack
+2 Cards, +$1.
Each other player trashes a silver or discards a card from their hand. If anyone trashed a silver, trash this. Each player who did not trash or discard a silver gains a curse into their hand.
This way, they can discard a silver to just keep from getting a curse, or trash a silver to kill the werewolf. In most cases, trashing the silver would be better. Since the attack is stronger and it takes a little more of a sacrifice to kill the werewolf, the vanilla bonus doesn't need to be as strong.

scott_pilgrim

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Re: Some trashing-based cards
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2015, 01:55:01 am »
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Re: werewolf politics: what about having the other players discard simultaneously? It still lends to some mindgames, but less "over the table" than having people discuss (read: whine) on who shall kill the werewolf. Not sure if it's worth the hassle.

You would be saying something like "Each other player sets aside cards face-down until he has three in hand, then discards them"?  I think that actually works (though it's awkward).

I really like these cards BTW.  Nice work!
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