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[werothegreat]

How would you rank the cards revealed so far, without having actually played with them (or if you're a playtester, actually having played with them)?  If you don't feel like giving a specific number, say "near the top" or "worst card of this cost ever" or "middling" or something like that.

As a reminder, these are the kingdom cards so far:

$2: Coin of the Realm
$3: Amulet, Guide
$4: Duplicate, Magpie, Messenger, Transmogrify
$5: Giant, Haunted Woods, Lost City, Storyteller, Swamp Hag
$6: Hireling

While we're here, how should Events be ranked?  Should they be grouped in with their cost, or ranked as their own category?  If the former, should $0 Events, like Borrow, be lumped in with the $1 and $2 cards?

As for the Travellers, I think it'd be best to just rate Page and Peasant, allowing their later forms color your decision, rather than rating each later form, although we could have a Travellers ranking too, possibly.

[Jimmmmm]

I think, while it may be useful to compare Events, it's probably more useful to compare both cards and Events by cost. Eg Lost Arts always competes with Gold (absent cost-reduction) etc. Borrow's kind of in a class of its own though, since it doesn't cost you a buy or any coins and therefore doesn't compete with anything. It's effectively something you do rather than something you buy (although I guess you could say you're spending drawing a card on it).

(fixed typo)

[Mic Qsenoch]

Meh: Messenger, Giant
Good-: Swamp Hag, Transmogrify
Good: Guide, Duplicate, CotR, Storyteller, Haunted Woods, Hireling
Good+: Magpie, Lost City, Amulet

[TheOthin]

A $0 card would probably be ranked with the $1-2 cards, but I don't think mixing the Events in with regular cards would work well.

Past rankings consider cards like Urchin, Madman, Spoils, Prizes, etc. as features of their corresponding Kingdom card rather than things to rate in their own right, right? Travelers seem like they'd fit right into that.

[jsh357]

I agree with Mic on everything but cotr, which I think is weaker than it seems at first.

[scott_pilgrim]

Coin of the Realm: top 25-35%
Amulet: top 5-15%
Guide: top 30-40%
Duplicate: top 50-60%
Magpie: top 10-20%
Messenger: top 60-70%
Transmogrify: top 20-30%
Giant: top 45-55%
Haunted Woods: top 10-20%
Lost City: top 20-30%
Storyteller: top 70-80%
Swamp Hag: top 45-55%
Hireling: top 40-50%

Are we supposed to be guessing how good they actually are, or how people will rate them?  If it's the latter, that's my excuse when these are all way off.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I agree with Mic on everything but cotr, which I think is weaker than it seems at first.

I was going to put it in Good- but felt like I hadn't truly given it enough of a chance in the past.

[Beyond Awesome]

Coin of the Realm: Better than most $2's but not Chapel or Stonemason good. Probably around FG or Hamlet, maybe a little less strong.
Amulet: Strong $3. Mid/Upper-tier. Probably around Forager power level, maybe slightly stronger
Guide: Higher ranked than Amulet but below the power $3's
Duplicate: mid $4 card
Magpie: Around Ironmonger rank
Messenger: Lower $4 rank, although not Thief bad. Slightly higher rank than Nomad Camp, I think.
Transmogrify: Mid-ranked $4 card
Giant: Mid-ranked $5 card
Haunted Woods: High ranked, slightly below the power $5s like Rebuild, Wharf, etc.
Lost City: Not middle tier. Not upper tier. Somewhere between the two.
Storyteller: Mid-ranked $5, maybe a little lower
Hireling: Mid-ranked $6 cost
Lost Arts: Ranked just below KC and Goons
Expedition: Ranked below most of powerful $3 cards, but higher than most $3 cards
Mission: Just below the mid-rank
Trade: Just below the mid-rank
Inheritance: Either above or below GM. I think a lot of people will give this a pass at first because of the coolness factor
Borrow: Umm, it costs $0. Ranked with the $1 or $2's it is even hard to rank because it's like Baker's effect but with a slight drawback.

[Sidsel]

Since events aren't actually cards, I have used a couple of the previews on scraps of paper for an IRL game.
Borrow was brutal for letting my son open Goons/-. I tried to buy Expedition occasionally to try to catch up, but it just let me choose the best 3 out of 7 instead of 5 when those Goons got played..  Except for that first turn spike, it was hard to decide when to use Borrow. Sure, on a three card hand, every copper counts, but if the card you could have drawn is better than a copper, it's not worth it.

I think I'd rank them both as highly situational..

[Orange]

I agree with most on many cards.  I think I rank Hireling  long lower than most, and Transmogrify higher than most.

[Throwaway_bicycling]

So I just looked around the sub-forum on Dark Ages previews to see how inaccurate those ended up being. The interesting one was for Cultist:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3845.0;all

Some people picked up on the fact that this was going to in the same league as Witch and Mountebank, whereas others were less convinced. Going by changes in Qvist rankings between when the cards were new to the last poll, Cultist ended up being what I guess you could call a "mild sleeper", moving from a rank of 7 to 4. The real rankings sleepers among $5 cards were Counterfeit, Junk Dealer, and Rebuild; for $4 cards, Ironmonger and Wandering Minstrel; for $3, Forager and Urchin. If I had to guess an overall pattern, it's a combination of ever higher appreciation of trashing and more value placed on non-terminals. Cards that fell a lot in the rankings included Catacombs and Death Cart.

If the same pattern holds this time, but guess is that it will be cards like Artificer, Magpie, and Storyteller that might gain wider appreciation. That said, people already seem to be hating on Giant and Wine Merchant to some extent, so maybe overall calibration will be better.

[TheOthin]

To be fair, that also works off trends. People see what characteristics tended to make for better or worse cards in recent sets and have similar expectations for the next set, and probably will be more accurate now due to knowing more but some changes might throw things off.

[Throwaway_bicycling]

To be fair, that also works off trends. People see what characteristics tended to make for better or worse cards in recent sets and have similar expectations for the next set, and probably will be more accurate now due to knowing more but some changes might throw things off.

I think that's definitely possible. There had never been anything like Rebuild before, I don't think, so it's not a huge surprise that it was underestimated. I honestly think the overall state of Dominion strategy has advanced quite a bit recently. I had some occasion to look at BGG posts from (say) 2009-2010 and...wow; things have changed. Some of it is the cards, but some of it is deeper, I think.