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[GendoIkari]

Just finished an IRL 4-player game. I'm no good at 4-player, and have lost much of my former skill from the Iso days anyway, so I wasn't too surprised to find I didn't win (came in last, in fact).

The Kingdom:

Shanty Town
Spice Merchant
Cartographer
Explorer
Festival
Inn
Altar
Nobles
Farmland
Prince

So we all went Spice Merchant; myself and another player got a second Spice Merchant at some point. The others all hit $6 pretty quickly and just went Gold from there (Festival on $5). I had trouble getting to $6, but when I did I went for Nobles. I guess my thought was that Cartographer/Festival/Nobles could form a good deck; with the Spice Merchant removing the Coppers and Shanty Town for action support. But, I over-trashed my money, and before too long I was drawing my whole deck (except for the VP that Cartographer discarded for me), but my whole deck was giving me like 4 money. Oops.

So I know clearly why I didn't win; but I don't know if it was my plan that was wrong or my execution. Could a Cartographer/Festival/Nobles engine work here? Obviously the tricky part is that everything is super-expensive... so I wonder if Altar is the right thing to get with your first $6; so that you can start collecting Festivals and Cartographers, while thinning out the Estates. Maybe even skip Spice Merchant if you plan to trash Coppers to Altar. But of course, even then, Altar can't pick up Nobles; the only thing that draws.

So is it just too expensive for an engine; is the BM that my opponent's played the right way to go? And if you are just going BM, is Spice Merchant even worth it? I'm guessing so; though you'll want to choose the money over the draw more often than not.

[JW]

You want Spice merchant and altar for the engine. Altar trashes much too slowly to use as your primary trashing with spice merchant available. Would probably open shanty town as well for the cycling.

With 4 players there's less time to build the engine and you may not get many Festivals. Still seems like the right play though I often am surprised at how much weaker engines are in 4p.

[qmech]

I'd definitely take the Altar.  There are plenty of good $5's, so you're not going to run out of things to gain.  Festival is much more important than Cartographer (for the money) and I'd take a couple of Inns too before starting on Cartographers.

You almost never want to buy two Spice Merchants.  It's like buying two Moneylenders, or two Loans: there isn't enough for them to do before they start looking daft.

[Davio]

I'd open Shanty - Spice Merchant and look to grab Festivals and Nobles.
Nobles are pretty decent for points here.

Prince seems like a waste of time unless you get a lucky $8 early.

[DG]

The engine in four player is definitely a risk. The festivals could run out too fast, with all players buying them whatever type of deck they are building. Also, one person buying nobles instead of provinces might extend a two or three player game, but this four player game will hardly extend at all. I'm guessing you should still try the engine since it gives a lot of options.

[Davio]

I can see a likely 3-pile with Festivals, Nobles and Duchies gone.

So grabbing an Altar is definitely a good idea, because it can help you grab Festivals as well as Duchies.

I wonder if you'll be able to run into a situation where you can grab an opportune Inn to shuffle Prince and Nobles or Altar together, but it seems too good to be true.

[2.71828.....]

Shanty town is definitely worth it.  There are plenty of actions and non-terminals floating around that as long as you don't go too heavy on it, shanty town could almost always be +2 cards, +2 actions.  And I agree with Davio about the 3-pile, which makes altar a must-have.

I wonder if you'll be able to run into a situation where you can grab an opportune Inn to shuffle Prince and Nobles or Altar together, but it seems too good to be true.

Remember Prince only accepts cards costing 4 or less.

[Davio]

I totally forgot about that! In that case it's definitely a no-go.

[shark_bait]

The thing about the draw engine in this game is that (a) the village does not draw cards and (b) the +Card is an expensive Smithy and (c) it's 4-player so piles are limited.  Additionally, there is not payload in action cards so you have to use cash and you have no attacks to slow down your opponents.

Consequently, I would go for a cycle your deck engine instead of a draw your deck engine.  Cartographer will be better than Festival.  You can open Shanty Town/Spice Merchant for the extra cycling.  Get an Explorer and then then Cartographer.  Get a Province and try to pair your Explorer with Province as often as Possible.  I believe that this will do better than an Altar into Festival/Nobles draw engine.