Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Teproc]

Welcome to Homeland Mafia !

Mods : Teproc, AndrewisFTTW (co-mod)

This game will use asher9++, a setup based on C9++, created by ashersky of course. For reference, this is the second time this setup is being run, the first can be found here

This will be a 12-player game and it won't start before M45 is done with day 1.

Players
1. yuma, replaced by Eevee => Chris Brody, the Innocent Child, killed night 1
2. ashersky => Saul Berenson, the Vanilla Townie, killed night 3
3. Robz888 => Danny Galvez, the Mafia Godfather => survived
4. faust => David Estes, the Town One-Shot Vigilante, lynched day 2
5. A Drowned Kernel => Andrew Lockhart, the Vanilla Townie, lynched day 5
6. sudgy => Carrie Mathisen, The Town One-Shot Cop, killed night 4
7. scott_pilgrim => Mike Faber, the Town Universal Back-Up, killed night 2
8. Whiterweaver => William Walden, the Mafia Strongman => survived
9. EgorK => Nicholas Brody, the Vanilla Townie, lynched day 4
10. chairs => Dana Brody, the Vanilla Townie, endgamed
11. mcmcsalot => Jessica Brody, the Vanilla Townie, endgamed
12. azadin => Peter Quinn, the Mafia Roleblocker, lynched day 3

Spectators tagged : mail-mi

[Teproc]

Basic Mafia Ruleset

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play.

Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

Game Summary:

Mafia is a social deduction game.  There is an "informed minority" (the mafia) and an "uninformed majority" (the town).  The mafia know who each other are, and are trying to be the only people left alive.  The town doesn't know who anybody else is, and are trying to find and lynch all of the mafia.  The mafia, to make sure the town doesn't know who they are, must pretend to be town to win.  The mafia usually can kill at night, to help them in being the only ones left alive.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.  Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to all mods by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start during the first few Nights; later Nights may have shorter deadlines).  If we do not receive your PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions.  In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.  If your Night action was mandatory, it will be decided randomly.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mods know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mods lock the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Days will last 7 days and nights will last 48 hours (with 48 hours night action deadlines). During the night, all players are required to check-in with the mod via PM to confirm that they are still playing. If one player fails to do this, the mod will search for a replacement and won't open the thread before a replacement has been found. If this occurs in later days (see 10. in Miscellaneous), the player who failed to confirm will be modkilled.
5. If the deadline is hit and nobody has a majority of votes, a no lynch will occur and the game will go into night without anyone being lynched.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
10. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.
11. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post. Mods will not edit posts for you.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, colored text is reserved for the Mods.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.10 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator.  Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request).  Requests to /out are final once submitted.  There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed.
10. If a player wants to /out, they may be replaced by anyone on D1-N1.  On D2-N2, no one from the speccy may replace the player.  After this, a player who /outs may not be replaced.  It is up to the mod's discretion whether to modkill the player or do something else under these circumstances.

Helpful Links:

Wiki Links:

--Main Wiki Page

--Newbie Guide

--Frequently Asked Questions

--Commonly Used Abbreviations

--Mafia Theory

Forum Links:

--Vacation/Limited Access announcements

--Mafia Lingo/Dictionary

[Teproc]

Asher9++ is a semi-open setup for 12 players. Setup generation is a randomized process that is open and explained below.

All games include a Universal Back-Up and a Godfather. The remaining 10 roles are determined by rolling six random numbers from 1-100. Each roll is separate. The following number ranges are assigned letters as shown:

1-50: T (Townie. This directly influences scum power roles.) (50/100)
51-60: E (“Either” Cop or Doctor) (10/100)
61-65: C (Cop) (5/100)
66-70: D (Doctor) (5/100)
71-80: V (Vigilante) (10/100)
81-90: M (Mason) (10/100)
91-100: B (Blocker) (10/100)

After the letters have been assigned, the mod refers to the list below to determine which power roles are included.

E Roles*
E = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EE = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1 -Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2

C Roles
C = 1-Shot Cop
CC = Cop
CCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop
CCCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop x2
CCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop
CCCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop x2

D Roles
D = Doctor
DD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor
DDD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor
DDDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDDDD = Doctor x3

Vigilante Roles
V = 1-Shot Vigilante
VV = Vigilante
VVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante x2
VVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante x2

Mason Roles
M** = 1 Mason
MM = Innocent Child (Confirmed at start of Day 1)
MMM = 2 Masons
MMMM = 2 Masons; Innocent Child
MMMMM = 3 Masons
MMMMMM = 2 Masons; 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)

Blocker Roles
B = Roleblocker
BB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBBBB = Roleblocker x3

Scum Roles (In addition to the Godfather)
TTTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****

After power roles are determined from the table above, Vanilla Townies are added to arrive at 12 players.

* "Or" roles are determined randomly
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
*** 5 or 6 T rolls result in a scum team of Goon - Goon - Godfather. During N0, the team may elect to have one of the two Goons be 1-Shot Bulletproof. This is optional and not required.
**** If there are zero Ts, one member of the mafia team is randomly 1-Shot Bulletproof.

Clarifications:

--If a 1-Shot PR is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit that role, even if the shot was used up. The UB will not receive a new shot.
--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion.
--Mafia Strongman modifier defeats one doctor protection or roleblocker. If two or more doctors successfully protect the target, the kill will fail. If a doctor protects the target and the Strongman is blocked, the kill will fail.  If two roleblockers target the Strongman, the kill will fail.
--The Bulletproof modifier will be revealed upon death, if selected or assigned.

[ashersky]

/in

[yuma]

/tag Robz is it

[Robz888]

In.

Would you mind changing to just numbers, not roman numerals? It's getting too difficult to read, and I think you wrote the wrong number. This should be Mafia 46, you have it written as 44, I think.

[Teproc]

In.

Would you mind changing to just numbers, not roman numerals? It's getting too difficult to read, and I think you wrote the wrong number. This should be Mafia 46, you have it written as 44, I think.

I thought it was Mafia 44 for... some reason. I like the roman numerals, I'm guessing this discussion should be had in another place though, since we probably want to be consistent more than anything else.

[faust]

/in, assuming this doesn't take too long to start.

[Teproc]

/in, assuming this doesn't take too long to start.

I changed it so that it won't start until day 1 of Stack the Deck is over, as opposed to it being well into day 2. I hadn't noticed how few games were going on right now (since I don't really follow non-normal games), but two normal games being in day 1 at the same time is never great.

[A Drowned Kernel]

/in

I've been waiting for this setup to come back.

[Robz888]

In.

Would you mind changing to just numbers, not roman numerals? It's getting too difficult to read, and I think you wrote the wrong number. This should be Mafia 46, you have it written as 44, I think.

I thought it was Mafia 44 for... some reason. I like the roman numerals, I'm guessing this discussion should be had in another place though, since we probably want to be consistent more than anything else.

Well, we've been inconsistent so far, and moving forward I would rather consistently not use roman numerals. They are uniquely ill-suited to our purposes, since we often refer to games as M-Number, which is doubly confusing since M is 50 in roman numerology.

It keeps me awake at night.

[Teproc]

M is 1000 in Roman numerology (50 is L), so you should be able to sleep for some time.

I agree that it is a little unwieldy now (although it was worse when we were in the 30s than it is now), but it simply looks cool, so unless it's decided that we'll entirely switch to arabic numerals, I'll keep it that way.

[Robz888]

Er, 1,000, yeah. Still M-MXLVI is very ugly to me, and I firmly want to jettison the roman numerals.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I could co-mod.

[sudgy]

/in only if it stays MXLVI

(jk, although I do actually like the roman numerals better)

[Teproc]

I could co-mod.

Thanks !

[scott_pilgrim]

/in

[Witherweaver]

/in

[Voltaire]

/in

[Voltaire]

/in

Actually /out, sorry, don't want to be in three games at once (modding M45, Dice Mafia, and this)

[EgorK]

/in

[mail-mi]

/tag

[chairs]

in/

[yuma]

2 more! Teproc want to give me a quick description of homeland and why I should watch it. Your last game inspired my latest TV addiction--just finished season 2 of House of Cards.

[Teproc]

2 more! Teproc want to give me a quick description of homeland and why I should watch it. Your last game inspired my latest TV addiction--just finished season 2 of House of Cards.

Oh yeah I saw that, glad you liked it !

Homeland is a spy thriller where the main character (Carrie Mathisen/Claire Danes) is a CIA agent who, when she was in Irak, got the info that an American POW had been turned. A few years a later, an American POW (Nicholas Brody/Damian Lewis) is found and triumphally comes back to the US. She is convinced that he's the guy her contact told her about, so she sets out to prove it, against her mentor's (Saul Berenson/Mandy Patinkin) advice. That's basically the pitch.

It's a very interesting show, Claire Danes is phenomenal in it (she won a billion awards for the role) and the first season is both a really great character study and thriller. It gets a little crazy in later seasons (starting with the second half of the second season) but I still like it. I would say the first season and a half is one of the best run of any TV show in recent years, with incredibly tense sequences and great characters.

[yuma]

sweet... I'll check it out!

[Robz888]

The fiancé and I watched it from start to finish a couple weeks ago... great show! It's basically a sort-of more plausible "24," I would say.

Ironically enough, this whole Sgt. Bergdahl thing in the news is strikingly similar to the plot of the show.

[yuma]

come on TA... you know you want to join!

[Twistedarcher]

come on TA... you know you want to join!

I have a lot of work trips coming up in the next two months so I don't think I can meet the commitment levels needed here anymore for a long time :/

[mcmcsalot]

TA we can lurk together!

/in will legitimately be busy till Friday.

[Eevee]

I'm available sub in if the situation arises.

[faust]

I will have to /out if this doesn't start by the end of the week. Collides with my summer vacation otherwise.

[azadin]

I have never played a forum game or Mafia before, but it seems interesting. Would anyone care if a complete Mafia noob joined you? Could some nice soul PM me with a bit of information about this? (Realistic time commitment, tips, anything else you think might be relevant). I've skimmed through some stuff and it seems a bit overwhelming, but absolutely something I could get into if I tried it out.

Thanks!

[AndrewisFTTW]

This should be a basic enough game for a first time player. Make sure you read and sign the Civility Pledge and JOIN US.... Huh? What? Oh sorry for the creepy color change. FRESH BLOOD... ONE OF US... oh boy...

[Witherweaver]

I have never played a forum game or Mafia before, but it seems interesting. Would anyone care if a complete Mafia noob joined you? Could some nice soul PM me with a bit of information about this? (Realistic time commitment, tips, anything else you think might be relevant). I've skimmed through some stuff and it seems a bit overwhelming, but absolutely something I could get into if I tried it out.

Thanks!

Just remember that I'm always town, so never vote for me.

Realistically: Games last a while, a couple of months.  Though it's possible you get killed earlier.  Time commitment is at a minimum one post a day, but really it's better to be more active.  I tend to check the forums while I'm at work (I have a desk job), and occasionally on my phone as I'm commuting or hanging around with nothing to do.  So if you check in fairly regularly and keep up with the game, just reading the new posts and contributing your thoughts as you can, that should be alright.  If you can't check in for a couple of days, just post something to that extent (also there is a VLA thread for that).

It's hard to give general tips.. you're probably going to make a bunch of mistakes in your firsts games (I did).  That's part of the learning process.. I think it's a kind of a jump right into the deep end thing.

[Teproc]

I have never played a forum game or Mafia before, but it seems interesting. Would anyone care if a complete Mafia noob joined you? Could some nice soul PM me with a bit of information about this? (Realistic time commitment, tips, anything else you think might be relevant). I've skimmed through some stuff and it seems a bit overwhelming, but absolutely something I could get into if I tried it out.

Thanks!

Welcome !

First of all : what WW said.

Also : read the rules (in the second post of this thread), take a look at the setup (it's somewhat complex, but take a look at the possible roles), take a look at this thread and the Civility Pledge.

If you have any question you can ask it in this thread or by PM to someone like ashersky, yuma or Robz. Once the game starts (if you do sign-up), you should mostly ask questions to me via PM (I'll be modding this game), I'll be glad to answer them.

The Mafiascum wiki is a great source if you have questions about roles. This setup is a f.ds original, but all the roles featured in it are in there.

As far as starting with this particular game goes : the setup itself is complex, but the way it plays is fairly simple, and you don't need to understand all the intricacies of the setup to get the game anyway.

One last recommendation : if you can find the time, try to read a concluded game. The obvious one here would be Adventure Time, because it used the same exact setup. I'll also note that this was Andrew's first game here, and he's apparently turned into some kind of Mafia-fueled beast so... it works as a newbie game !

[mcmcsalot]

I have never played a forum game or Mafia before, but it seems interesting. Would anyone care if a complete Mafia noob joined you? Could some nice soul PM me with a bit of information about this? (Realistic time commitment, tips, anything else you think might be relevant). I've skimmed through some stuff and it seems a bit overwhelming, but absolutely something I could get into if I tried it out.

Thanks!

This is a wonderful setup to start, it has the simplicity of c9 and jk9 but isn't solvable so it won't breakdown completely into theory crafting early.

If you have any questions on how the setup works feel free to ask, most anybody could explain it well.

General tips would be to play like you don't have any extra information. For example if you are a doctor you need to avoid playing like you know a doctor exists, because only the doctor would know that and mafia will know to kill you. As mafia you have way more info than town, you know everyone's alignment and all the powers mafia have. So you need to play as though you don't know any of these things.

I would also suggest you don't let others bully your opinions one way or the other. If you believe player A is mafia for reason Y, do not let player B tell you Y is a bad reason to think player A is mafia. Makes sure if you change your mind it's because player B gave a stronger reason for player A to be town, or because player B explained something that you had been confused about causing reason Y to be faulty. Hopefully that makes sense, I think it is important.

Last tip, be present and hold people accountable. You don't have to be posting all the time but when you are posting try your best to be caught up and posting about things that are happening in the current moment. It's easy to summarize what others have said and give an after the matter opinion that is "safe" and repetitive. And of course, hold others to this because you have to believe if others are town they are trying their best to be genuine and helpful as well.

[mcmcsalot]

One last recommendation : if you can find the time, try to read a concluded game. The obvious one here would be Adventure Time, because it used the same exact setup. I'll also note that this was Andrew's first game here, and he's apparently turned into some kind of Mafia-fueled beast so... it works as a newbie game !

Why did you tell him to do that! Now he's going to think we kill newbies day one!

[yuma]

I think the best prep for playing is to spectate a game. Try watching this one while it is going:  http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11240.new#new. It has been going for a few days. Although reading a past game works as well, but reading a current game gives you an idea of the pace of a game and what happens in real time.

[Teproc]

One last recommendation : if you can find the time, try to read a concluded game. The obvious one here would be Adventure Time, because it used the same exact setup. I'll also note that this was Andrew's first game here, and he's apparently turned into some kind of Mafia-fueled beast so... it works as a newbie game !

Why did you tell him to do that! Now he's going to think we kill newbies day one!

Yeah, that usually doesn't happen. In fact it's the only example I can think of since I've been here.

[A Drowned Kernel]

We didn't though, did we? raerae was the day one lynch there.

[sudgy]

One last recommendation : if you can find the time, try to read a concluded game. The obvious one here would be Adventure Time, because it used the same exact setup. I'll also note that this was Andrew's first game here, and he's apparently turned into some kind of Mafia-fueled beast so... it works as a newbie game !

Why did you tell him to do that! Now he's going to think we kill newbies day one!

Yeah, that usually doesn't happen. In fact it's the only example I can think of since I've been here.

In my first game we lynched mail-mi who was a newbie at the time (granted, there were seven newbies).

[mail-mi]

One last recommendation : if you can find the time, try to read a concluded game. The obvious one here would be Adventure Time, because it used the same exact setup. I'll also note that this was Andrew's first game here, and he's apparently turned into some kind of Mafia-fueled beast so... it works as a newbie game !

Why did you tell him to do that! Now he's going to think we kill newbies day one!

Yeah, that usually doesn't happen. In fact it's the only example I can think of since I've been here.

In my first game we lynched mail-mi who was a newbie at the time (granted, there were seven newbies).

i remember that game...i was pretty much only in that game so I could get into BMX

[azadin]

Alright, I'm in. Let's try this out.

[Teproc]

Alright. PMs will be coming in hours to follow (the setup is annoying to do and the World Cup is going on though, so not super fast).

[mcmcsalot]

Newbie hammer Roll it Rocky!

[Teproc]

Newbie hammer Roll it Rocky!

You know, I'd actually be fine with resurrecting that short-lived nickname, it reminds me of my one-and-only scum win

[AndrewisFTTW]

I like Le Teproc better.

[ashersky]

I prefer Deproc, in honor of that most famous Frenchman.

[Teproc]

PMs are going out right now.

A warning : they contain wiki links for flavor, those contain spoilers for all seasons unfortunately, so don't read them if you don't want to be spoiled.

THREAD LOCKED

[Teproc]

No one understood what they were doing here. Carrie was at her most manic, despite Saul's attemps to calm her down, and the Brodys were outraged by the way they had been brought in this room and how no one would tell them anything about what was going on. Even Estes had tried to reason with the guards, to no avail. Finally, Dar Adal entered the room and explained the situation :

- There has been a leak at the CIA, a leak that could only come from one of you. As a result, I'm stepping in as temporary director of the CIA, and you are all suspects of treason.

Carrie almost managed to get a hold of him, but she was hauled off by the guards and, before anyone else had any time to react, he was gone. They were by themselves now, and had to figure things out.

[Teproc]

PM's have been sent out, now waiting for everyone to confirm via PM or posting in your QT.

While I'm here : the flavor in this game is just flavor, except for one character.

Thread still locked

[Teproc]

Everyone was still in shock, but then Chris Brody (yuma, the Inocent Child), of all people, spoke up.

"But, but... I wasn't even there when my dad got that super secret document, I was at my karate competition ! This is so unfair, I shouldn't be here !"

"Well then", Saul said. "That's one less suspect at least. Now let's figure this out."

Day 1 starts now !

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.0:

Not Voting (12): yuma, ashersky, Robz888, faust, A Drowned Kernel, sudgy, scott_pilgrim, Witherweaver, EgorK, chairs, mcmcsalot, azadin

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 4, 2014.

[Teproc]

I just realized that this particular deadline might be somewhat inconvenient for American players. I will move it one day later if needed.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I want to blitz-lynch someone random. Vote:scott_pilgrim

Everyone do it quick!

[scott_pilgrim]

I want to blitz-lynch someone random. Vote:scott_pilgrim

Everyone do it quick!

OMGUS vote: A Drowned Kernel

[A Drowned Kernel]

We can skip the theory talk here, right? We've played this setup before and mass claim day one won't help us.

[azadin]

Oh, hey guys. First day, first game. ADK: What is this theory talk of which you speak?

[chairs]

I want to blitz-lynch someone random. Vote:scott_pilgrim

Everyone do it quick!

Okay!

vote: A Drowned Kernel

[A Drowned Kernel]

Sometimes there are ways for town to get a significant advantage by having players with Power Roles claim at the beginning of the game and then following a plan, i.e. "follow the cop". "Theory talk" refers to analyzing the setup to see if this is the case. Some players also advocate it as a way to get discussion started, which can be difficult sometimes. What I'm saying is, this setup is very well designed to prevent town from doing this, and that a lot of theory talk at the beginning of the game can also bog things down, as well as giving scum an easy way to appear productive and towny, so we shouldn't have to waste a lot of time with it here.

Also, welcome to your first game!

[sudgy]

Vote: scott_pilgrim I'm with you.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.1:

A Drowned Kernel (2) : scott_pilgrim, chairs
scott_pilgrim (2) : A Drowned Kernel, sudgy

Not Voting (8 ) : yuma, ashersky, Robz888, faust, Witherweaver, EgorK, mcmcsalot, azadin

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 4, 2014.

[scott_pilgrim]

Since we have an IC that means we rolled at least 2 M's (either 2 or 4), so mafia has at least a 1-shot strongman and a roleblocker?

[Witherweaver]

Vote: ADK talking about whether we should be doing theory talk or not IS theory talk.

[Witherweaver]

(In some broad sense of theory)

[A Drowned Kernel]

Since we have an IC that means we rolled at least 2 M's (either 2 or 4), so mafia has at least a 1-shot strongman and a roleblocker?

This is true, and also completely unhelpful. Scum points for scott.

Vote: ADK talking about whether we should be doing theory talk or not IS theory talk.

Is talking about whether talking about theory talk is theory talk theory talk?

[sudgy]

Vote: ADK talking about whether we should be doing theory talk or not IS theory talk.

Is talking about whether talking about theory talk is theory talk theory talk?

:O

Vote: Witherweaver

[A Drowned Kernel]

No keep voting for scott we've got to keep the blitz wagon going!

[Witherweaver]

Since we have an IC that means we rolled at least 2 M's (either 2 or 4), so mafia has at least a 1-shot strongman and a roleblocker?

This is true, and also completely unhelpful. Scum points for scott.

Vote: ADK talking about whether we should be doing theory talk or not IS theory talk.

Is talking about whether talking about theory talk is theory talk theory talk?

Yes, but I didn't say that we should not be talking about theory.

[azadin]

Is talking about whether talking about theory talk is theory talk theory talk?

Oh oh! Is talking about whether talking about whether talking about theory talk is theory talk theory talk?

Vote: A Drowned Kernel

[azadin]

I think I missed an "is theory talk" in there...

[A Drowned Kernel]

Since we have an IC that means we rolled at least 2 M's (either 2 or 4), so mafia has at least a 1-shot strongman and a roleblocker?

This is true, and also completely unhelpful. Scum points for scott.

Vote: ADK talking about whether we should be doing theory talk or not IS theory talk.

Is talking about whether talking about theory talk is theory talk theory talk?

Yes, but I didn't say that we should not be talking about theory.

So what thoughts do you have on it?

[Witherweaver]

Since we have an IC that means we rolled at least 2 M's (either 2 or 4), so mafia has at least a 1-shot strongman and a roleblocker?

This is true, and also completely unhelpful. Scum points for scott.

Vote: ADK talking about whether we should be doing theory talk or not IS theory talk.

Is talking about whether talking about theory talk is theory talk theory talk?

Yes, but I didn't say that we should not be talking about theory.

So what thoughts do you have on it?

I actually like theory in general.  And not everyone has played this setup.  But I agree that there isn't a merit in mass claim.

Why is what Scott said completely unhelpful? 

[A Drowned Kernel]

My point is, this set up is very simple, we can't really guess what PRs we have (besides IC obviously) and claiming only makes their PRs better. And yeah, what scott points out is true, but scott's comment is both fairly obvious when you read the setup and kind of pointless to point out at this point in the game.

[scott_pilgrim]

My point is, this set up is very simple, we can't really guess what PRs we have (besides IC obviously) and claiming only makes their PRs better. And yeah, what scott points out is true, but scott's comment is both fairly obvious when you read the setup and kind of pointless to point out at this point in the game.

I was just pointing out what I had noticed, maybe the bigger picture is, we know what happened with 2 of our 6 rolls.  It's not helpful now but maybe something to keep in mind later.

[Witherweaver]

My point is, this set up is very simple, we can't really guess what PRs we have (besides IC obviously) and claiming only makes their PRs better. And yeah, what scott points out is true, but scott's comment is both fairly obvious when you read the setup and kind of pointless to point out at this point in the game.

I haven't read through it, but regardless, all knowledge is good knowledge.  There's no reason not to point something like that out, and even less (than no?) reason to reprimand someone for doing so.

I mean basically I disagree.  Nothing wrong with Scott saying this, and now is a better time to point it out than later. 

[mcmcsalot]

hi everyone!

[Robz888]

My point is, this set up is very simple, we can't really guess what PRs we have (besides IC obviously) and claiming only makes their PRs better. And yeah, what scott points out is true, but scott's comment is both fairly obvious when you read the setup and kind of pointless to point out at this point in the game.

I haven't read through it, but regardless, all knowledge is good knowledge.  There's no reason not to point something like that out, and even less (than no?) reason to reprimand someone for doing so.

I mean basically I disagree.  Nothing wrong with Scott saying this, and now is a better time to point it out than later.

Complete agreement with WW. Yeah, let's not mass claim, but nobody proposed that. Setup discussion paranoia vexes me even more than actual setup discussion, although I don't know that either thing is actually scummy.

[yuma]

I am the IC! Here me roar!

Hehehe... robz is totally so super scummy! hehehe... Hey ash! vote for me! Ha! Hehehe...

being an IC is fun!

PS: I am busy on vacation... don't do stupid things, I'll be back to see how I want to play as IC later, just go about like normal for now!

[faust]

Wow, yuma as IC is great! That probably means two Ms, right?

Also vote: Witherweaver worked well in the past.

[ashersky]

Since we have an IC that means we rolled at least 2 M's (either 2 or 4), so mafia has at least a 1-shot strongman and a roleblocker?

Another way to put it (the better way) is we are guaranteed not to be facing the Goon-Goon-Godfather setup.  Otherwise, all mixes are in play (4 Ts or less).

Whoever said no theory talk is basically right.  Masons should think about what it means that they exist.  Other PRs can think about setup.  No one should talk about it, though, because it may give away that you have more info, which means you might be targeted as a PR.

Basically, vote: mom salon.

[Witherweaver]

Wow, yuma as IC is great! That probably means two Ms, right?

Also vote: Witherweaver worked well in the past.

One day tried and true tradition will fail you, and that day you shall rue.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.2:

A Drowned Kernel (4) : scott_pilgrim, chairs, Witherweaver, azadin
Witherweaver (2) : sudgy, faust
scott_pilgrim (1) : A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (5) : yuma, ashersky, Robz888, EgorK, mcmcsalot

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 4, 2014.

[mcmcsalot]

Hehe I don't know what makes me happier that ash brought back mom salon or that teproc has no idea it's me.

On helpful news, I agree with robz and ash and like that Yuma is ic, do not want to lynch there, two newbies Azadin and egork, barring super scummyness don't want to lynch there.

Faust, Adk, ww, chairs, scott, sudgy

Scott and ww both posted helpful stuff that I agreed with

Adk's over cautiousness is scummy(robz mentioned). Adk what was your reason for the blitz wagon?

Faust, Scott already said wha you said in your post, did you miss it or feel like saying it anyway because you can't figure anything else out to post you scummy scum scum(that got out of hand)

Sudgy why the change to ww, the Scott vote seemed random enough, so a quick random change makes no sense.

Hi chairs!

[Teproc]

"Mom salon" does not fit my definition of an "obvious nickname", as many people here would have no idea what it's referring to.

[chairs]

"Mom salon" does not fit my definition of an "obvious nickname", as many people here would have no idea what it's referring to.

I, for example, had NO idea who that referenced until the below quote.

Hehe I don't know what makes me happier that ash brought back mom salon or that teproc has no idea it's me.

On helpful news, I agree with robz and ash and like that Yuma is ic, do not want to lynch there, two newbies Azadin and egork, barring super scummyness don't want to lynch there.

Faust, Adk, ww, chairs, scott, sudgy

Scott and ww both posted helpful stuff that I agreed with

Adk's over cautiousness is scummy(robz mentioned). Adk what was your reason for the blitz wagon?

Faust, Scott already said wha you said in your post, did you miss it or feel like saying it anyway because you can't figure anything else out to post you scummy scum scum(that got out of hand)

Sudgy why the change to ww, the Scott vote seemed random enough, so a quick random change makes no sense.

Hi chairs!

Hey mcmc!

==================

Honestly still happy with my vote at the moment, I think the "let's blitz-lynch" move was scummy.

[faust]

Faust, Scott already said wha you said in your post, did you miss it or feel like saying it anyway because you can't figure anything else out to post you scummy scum scum(that got out of hand)

Sorry, I did not read thoroughly. Yeah, I can't figure out what to post as well, this game has too little theory for me and now I don't really get into the game

I'm not scummy scum scum though.

[EgorK]

Are we out of RVS yet?

vote: ADK (L-2)

[chairs]

Faust, Scott already said wha you said in your post, did you miss it or feel like saying it anyway because you can't figure anything else out to post you scummy scum scum(that got out of hand)

Sorry, I did not read thoroughly. Yeah, I can't figure out what to post as well, this game has too little theory for me and now I don't really get into the game

I'm not scummy scum scum though.

Here's something to theorize about:  Is ADK's blitz lynch request as his first post a pro-scum or pro-town move?  How about the people who have piled on to either scott or himself?  Does the order of the votes matter?  Lots of interaction in relation to that to look at and dissect, if not Today than Tomorrow.

[Witherweaver]

Faust, Scott already said wha you said in your post, did you miss it or feel like saying it anyway because you can't figure anything else out to post you scummy scum scum(that got out of hand)

Sorry, I did not read thoroughly. Yeah, I can't figure out what to post as well, this game has too little theory for me and now I don't really get into the game

I'm not scummy scum scum though.

Here's something to theorize about:  Is ADK's blitz lynch request as his first post a pro-scum or pro-town move?  How about the people who have piled on to either scott or himself?  Does the order of the votes matter?  Lots of interaction in relation to that to look at and dissect, if not Today than Tomorrow.

Last time I saw Blitz wagons was in Greater Idea.  I think everyone advocating them there was town, but I'd have to go back and check.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Adk what was your reason for the blitz wagon?

I felt like it.

Are we out of RVS yet?

vote: ADK (L-2)

I would say so.

[mcmcsalot]

Adk what was your reason for the blitz wagon?

I felt like it.

If this is all you can give me I am asserting intent to L-1 once Yuma has at least confirmed he has read everything and he doesn't scream no

I mean I'm not suggesting you have to have had a master plan, but you gotta be able to give me what went through your head, no one makes a post with zero though or because they felt like it.

[mcmcsalot]

Fixed

Adk what was your reason for the blitz wagon?

I felt like it.

If this is all you can give me I am asserting intent to L-1 once Yuma has at least confirmed he has read everything and he doesn't scream no

I mean I'm not suggesting you have to have had a master plan, but you gotta be able to give me what went through your head, no one makes a post with zero though or because they felt like it.

[mcmcsalot]

Faust, Scott already said wha you said in your post, did you miss it or feel like saying it anyway because you can't figure anything else out to post you scummy scum scum(that got out of hand)

Sorry, I did not read thoroughly. Yeah, I can't figure out what to post as well, this game has too little theory for me and now I don't really get into the game

I'm not scummy scum scum though.

Here's something to theorize about:  Is ADK's blitz lynch request as his first post a pro-scum or pro-town move?  How about the people who have piled on to either scott or himself?  Does the order of the votes matter?  Lots of interaction in relation to that to look at and dissect, if not Today than Tomorrow.

Why just post "look at all this stuff that happened, we should discuss it sometime" rather than discussing it yourself?

[mcmcsalot]

Why just post "look at all this stuff that happened, we should discuss it sometime" rather than discussing it yourself?

My bad, you did address it.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I thought a blitz lynch, and people's reactions for and against it, would be interesting and informative. And hey's, it's apparently happening to me, so I guess I got my wish.

[Robz888]

Fixed

Adk what was your reason for the blitz wagon?

I felt like it.

If this is all you can give me I am asserting intent to L-1 once Yuma has at least confirmed he has read everything and he doesn't scream no

I mean I'm not suggesting you have to have had a master plan, but you gotta be able to give me what went through your head, no one makes a post with zero though or because they felt like it.

Uh, I'm screaming no, I don't care what yuma says. Accidents can happen!

[sudgy]

I saw ADK's blitz wagon as RVS.  I jumped on for fun, then jumped to WW as part of RVS as well, so yeah.

Vote: EgorK for bringing ADK to L-2.  He didn't even really give a reason.  I've also never really liked "Are we out of RVS yet?" posts.

[Robz888]

Stop even saying the word RVS. No one ever mention it ever again ever at any point in any game. Thanks.

[azadin]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.3:

A Drowned Kernel (4) : scott_pilgrim, chairs, Witherweaver, EgorK
Witherweaver (1) : faust
scott_pilgrim (1) : A Drowned Kernel
EgorK (1) : sudgy

Not Voting (5) : yuma, ashersky, Robz888, mcmcsalot, azadin

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 4, 2014.

[Robz888]

Vote: azadin

[Robz888]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

This is oddly self conscious play for a newbie. Have you been reading other games?

[sudgy]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

This is oddly self conscious play for a newbie. Have you been reading other games?

I'm always self conscious, and I think that was part of what got me lynched in my first game.

[mcmcsalot]

I saw ADK's blitz wagon as RVS.  I jumped on for fun, then jumped to WW as part of RVS as well, so yeah.

Vote: EgorK for bringing ADK to L-2.  He didn't even really give a reason.  I've also never really liked "Are we out of RVS yet?" posts.

vote: sudgy his scum teammates would have coached him not to do these things.

[sudgy]

I saw ADK's blitz wagon as RVS.  I jumped on for fun, then jumped to WW as part of RVS as well, so yeah.

Vote: EgorK for bringing ADK to L-2.  He didn't even really give a reason.  I've also never really liked "Are we out of RVS yet?" posts.

vote: sudgy his scum teammates would have coached him not to do these things.

Why would they have?  You can't coach someone on everything.

[chairs]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

vote: azadin

No lurking.  If you're Town, then just posting "So here's what I think of this" even if it's "Well, I thought this was interesting and it makes me feel like X is more scummy/less scummy/posting too little/possibly an alien" is great.  The more that you post about what you're reading and what you think of what you read, the more interactions we get from you, the more we can in turn state what we think about your opinions, creating interactions of our own that you can then read into - which is how you get to say "Aha! Based on all these people talking, and what they're talking about (and ignoring), I can say that I think this one is the Mafioso plaguing our fair city!"... and eventually we lynch one, and find out if we were right, and that gives us more data to go through and refine our opinions of everyone else based on the interactions that occurred.

In other words, not talking is giving Mafia the excuse to not talk, and if they can get away with not talking, their Days are easier.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Regarding scott and azadin: I'm not sure people give newbies enough credit, they're not coming into the game as totally blank slates, and are probably more likely than experienced players to be self-conscious and cautious because they know that they're new to the community.

ppe: chairs is right though, post as much as you can.

[A Drowned Kernel]

That should say "robz and azadin"

[Witherweaver]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

vote: azadin

No lurking.  If you're Town, then just posting "So here's what I think of this" even if it's "Well, I thought this was interesting and it makes me feel like X is more scummy/less scummy/posting too little/possibly an alien" is great.  The more that you post about what you're reading and what you think of what you read, the more interactions we get from you, the more we can in turn state what we think about your opinions, creating interactions of our own that you can then read into - which is how you get to say "Aha! Based on all these people talking, and what they're talking about (and ignoring), I can say that I think this one is the Mafioso plaguing our fair city!"... and eventually we lynch one, and find out if we were right, and that gives us more data to go through and refine our opinions of everyone else based on the interactions that occurred.

In other words, not talking is giving Mafia the excuse to not talk, and if they can get away with not talking, their Days are easier.

[chairs]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

vote: azadin

No lurking.  If you're Town, then just posting "So here's what I think of this" even if it's "Well, I thought this was interesting and it makes me feel like X is more scummy/less scummy/posting too little/possibly an alien" is great.  The more that you post about what you're reading and what you think of what you read, the more interactions we get from you, the more we can in turn state what we think about your opinions, creating interactions of our own that you can then read into - which is how you get to say "Aha! Based on all these people talking, and what they're talking about (and ignoring), I can say that I think this one is the Mafioso plaguing our fair city!"... and eventually we lynch one, and find out if we were right, and that gives us more data to go through and refine our opinions of everyone else based on the interactions that occurred.

In other words, not talking is giving Mafia the excuse to not talk, and if they can get away with not talking, their Days are easier.

(This is a game. We are supposed to be having fun.  I am taking Mafia less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo so anticipate that I will, occasionally, crack a joke.)

Also to take a page from Robz's book, vote: ww for using smiley.

[Witherweaver]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

vote: azadin

No lurking.  If you're Town, then just posting "So here's what I think of this" even if it's "Well, I thought this was interesting and it makes me feel like X is more scummy/less scummy/posting too little/possibly an alien" is great.  The more that you post about what you're reading and what you think of what you read, the more interactions we get from you, the more we can in turn state what we think about your opinions, creating interactions of our own that you can then read into - which is how you get to say "Aha! Based on all these people talking, and what they're talking about (and ignoring), I can say that I think this one is the Mafioso plaguing our fair city!"... and eventually we lynch one, and find out if we were right, and that gives us more data to go through and refine our opinions of everyone else based on the interactions that occurred.

In other words, not talking is giving Mafia the excuse to not talk, and if they can get away with not talking, their Days are easier.

(This is a game. We are supposed to be having fun.  I am taking Mafia less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo so anticipate that I will, occasionally, crack a joke.)

Also to take a page from Robz's book, vote: ww for using smiley.

It's not my fault the forum changes ?^3 into a smiley face.

And I was questioning because, you know, there are Mafia games with Aliens.

[chairs]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

vote: azadin

No lurking.  If you're Town, then just posting "So here's what I think of this" even if it's "Well, I thought this was interesting and it makes me feel like X is more scummy/less scummy/posting too little/possibly an alien" is great.  The more that you post about what you're reading and what you think of what you read, the more interactions we get from you, the more we can in turn state what we think about your opinions, creating interactions of our own that you can then read into - which is how you get to say "Aha! Based on all these people talking, and what they're talking about (and ignoring), I can say that I think this one is the Mafioso plaguing our fair city!"... and eventually we lynch one, and find out if we were right, and that gives us more data to go through and refine our opinions of everyone else based on the interactions that occurred.

In other words, not talking is giving Mafia the excuse to not talk, and if they can get away with not talking, their Days are easier.

(This is a game. We are supposed to be having fun.  I am taking Mafia less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo so anticipate that I will, occasionally, crack a joke.)

Also to take a page from Robz's book, vote: ww for using smiley.

It's not my fault the forum changes ?^3 into a smiley face.

And I was questioning because, you know, there are Mafia games with Aliens.

Sure, sure, but I would've said "possibly an Alien" if I was referencing the faction, just like I say Mafia (not mafia) for the Mafia faction.

[EgorK]

Towny points to chairs for azadin interaction

I do not agree with Robz about self-conciousness through

[azadin]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

This is oddly self conscious play for a newbie. Have you been reading other games?

Yeah, I've been looking through a couple other ones. It can be overwhelming, but I guess that's half the fun! From now on, LEEROY JEENKINS!

Regarding scott and azadin: I'm not sure people give newbies enough credit, they're not coming into the game as totally blank slates, and are probably more likely than experienced players to be self-conscious and cautious because they know that they're new to the community.

This.

vote: azadin

No lurking.  If you're Town, then just posting "So here's what I think of this" even if it's "Well, I thought this was interesting and it makes me feel like X is more scummy/less scummy/posting too little/possibly an alien" is great.  The more that you post about what you're reading and what you think of what you read, the more interactions we get from you, the more we can in turn state what we think about your opinions, creating interactions of our own that you can then read into - which is how you get to say "Aha! Based on all these people talking, and what they're talking about (and ignoring), I can say that I think this one is the Mafioso plaguing our fair city!"... and eventually we lynch one, and find out if we were right, and that gives us more data to go through and refine our opinions of everyone else based on the interactions that occurred.

In other words, not talking is giving Mafia the excuse to not talk, and if they can get away with not talking, their Days are easier.

Makes sense. All I've noticed so far is that faust has said only two things:

Wow, yuma as IC is great! That probably means two Ms, right?

Also vote: Witherweaver worked well in the past.

and

Sorry, I did not read thoroughly. Yeah, I can't figure out what to post as well, this game has too little theory for me and now I don't really get into the game

I'm not scummy scum scum though.

Vote: faust for not really providing anything at all outside of a self non-scummy claim.

[mcmcsalot]

Chairs serious vote followed by an unserious vote is very unsettling. Do you still think Azadin is scummy?

[chairs]

Chairs serious vote followed by an unserious vote is very unsettling. Do you still think Azadin is scummy?

I'm not sure I follow.

I think azadin's "I'm going to lurk" was, in fact, scummy.

Also I think I follow now, just realized I'd voted WW for smiley face.  Obviously that wasn't terribly serious 

That said, I'll say azadin has clearly decided to take my suggestion not to lurk to heart, and so I'll go back to vote: A Drowned Kernel because I still think the "let's blitz lynch" statement was scummy, even though he's kind of backed off of that a little.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Chairs serious vote followed by an unserious vote is very unsettling. Do you still think Azadin is scummy?

I'm not sure I follow.

I think azadin's "I'm going to lurk" was, in fact, scummy.

Also I think I follow now, just realized I'd voted WW for smiley face.  Obviously that wasn't terribly serious 

That said, I'll say azadin has clearly decided to take my suggestion not to lurk to heart, and so I'll go back to vote: A Drowned Kernel because I still think the "let's blitz lynch" statement was scummy, even though he's kind of backed off of that a little.

What's scummy about it, though? A blitz wagon, even if it fails, gets the game going at least.

[chairs]

Chairs serious vote followed by an unserious vote is very unsettling. Do you still think Azadin is scummy?

I'm not sure I follow.

I think azadin's "I'm going to lurk" was, in fact, scummy.

Also I think I follow now, just realized I'd voted WW for smiley face.  Obviously that wasn't terribly serious 

That said, I'll say azadin has clearly decided to take my suggestion not to lurk to heart, and so I'll go back to vote: A Drowned Kernel because I still think the "let's blitz lynch" statement was scummy, even though he's kind of backed off of that a little.

What's scummy about it, though? A blitz wagon, even if it fails, gets the game going at least.

I think a request for a blitz wagon gives scum a lot of incentive to hop on early and see if you can get town to derphammer somebody.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Chairs serious vote followed by an unserious vote is very unsettling. Do you still think Azadin is scummy?

I'm not sure I follow.

I think azadin's "I'm going to lurk" was, in fact, scummy.

Also I think I follow now, just realized I'd voted WW for smiley face.  Obviously that wasn't terribly serious 

That said, I'll say azadin has clearly decided to take my suggestion not to lurk to heart, and so I'll go back to vote: A Drowned Kernel because I still think the "let's blitz lynch" statement was scummy, even though he's kind of backed off of that a little.

What's scummy about it, though? A blitz wagon, even if it fails, gets the game going at least.

I think a request for a blitz wagon gives scum a lot of incentive to hop on early and see if you can get town to derphammer somebody.

They clearly didn't bite.

[scott_pilgrim]

I find ADK's starting off the game with an attempt to get a blitz-lynch going to be interesting.  I really don't think it's something scum does with the thought process of "town's all going to listen to me and/or they will derphammer/we can quickhammer when the vote count gets high".  However, I do think it's something scum does with the thought process of "town is going to think scum wouldn't do that because it's too obviously scummy".  I also think it's not an unreasonable thing for town to do, but I still think it's worth some scum points for ADK, because I think it's more likely (than null, 30%) to be something scum would do for the WIFOM than something town would do.

Azadin looks super towny to me.  I think starting off by saying "I'm going to lurk" is something scum wouldn't do, because I would expect his partners to have told him lurking looks bad.  Yes, it's possible they told him to say that for WIFOM, but I really don't think so, it feels really genuine to me.

[ashersky]

vote: chairs

Overcompensating is a scum tell.

[Robz888]

ADK's blitz lynch was probably not going to happen. It's not scummy remotely. Mcmc could be slightly scummy for actually talking about going to L-1, scum could derphammer and who would know.

Azadin is mega scummy, no one else thinks self-consciousness in a newbie is scummy?

I agree with ash here:

vote: chairs

Overcompensating is a scum tell.

[chairs]

I'm not sure I follow, since I don't think I'm overcompensating.

[sudgy]

At the moment, EgorK and chairs are reading slightly scummy to me (I do think chairs reacted a bit much).  I have a town read for the moment on azadin.

[EgorK]

ADK's blitz lynch was probably not going to happen. It's not scummy remotely. Mcmc could be slightly scummy for actually talking about going to L-1, scum could derphammer and who would know.

Azadin is mega scummy, no one else thinks self-consciousness in a newbie is scummy?

I agree with ash here:

vote: chairs

Overcompensating is a scum tell.

Why then not act on this agreement? Or you find your current vote more scummy?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.4:

A Drowned Kernel (4) : scott_pilgrim, Witherweaver, EgorK, chairs
Witherweaver (1) : faust
azadin (1) : Robz888
scott_pilgrim (1) : A Drowned Kernel
EgorK (1) : sudgy
sudgy (1) : mcmcsalot
faust (1) : azadin
chairs (1) : ashersky

Not Voting (1) : yuma

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014.

Please note that the deadline has been moved back 3 days to take the Fourth of July into account and avoid a week-end deadline.

[faust]

Faust, Scott already said wha you said in your post, did you miss it or feel like saying it anyway because you can't figure anything else out to post you scummy scum scum(that got out of hand)

Sorry, I did not read thoroughly. Yeah, I can't figure out what to post as well, this game has too little theory for me and now I don't really get into the game

I'm not scummy scum scum though.

Here's something to theorize about:  Is ADK's blitz lynch request as his first post a pro-scum or pro-town move?  How about the people who have piled on to either scott or himself?  Does the order of the votes matter?  Lots of interaction in relation to that to look at and dissect, if not Today than Tomorrow.

I doubt there is much to read into this. It makes me think ADK is a little more likely town, but that's about it.

[faust]

Fixed

Adk what was your reason for the blitz wagon?

I felt like it.

If this is all you can give me I am asserting intent to L-1 once Yuma has at least confirmed he has read everything and he doesn't scream no

I mean I'm not suggesting you have to have had a master plan, but you gotta be able to give me what went through your head, no one makes a post with zero though or because they felt like it.

I think ADK is an easy target to paint scummy, but really, what motivation does scum have to propose blitz lynch?

Vote: mcmcsalot

[faust]

Stop even saying the word RVS. No one ever mention it ever again ever at any point in any game. Thanks.

RVS RVS RVS RVS

Sorry, I had to.

[faust]

Vote: faust for not really providing anything at all outside of a self non-scummy claim.

Fair enough. More contributions will be here soon.

[faust]

I find ADK's starting off the game with an attempt to get a blitz-lynch going to be interesting.  I really don't think it's something scum does with the thought process of "town's all going to listen to me and/or they will derphammer/we can quickhammer when the vote count gets high".  However, I do think it's something scum does with the thought process of "town is going to think scum wouldn't do that because it's too obviously scummy".  I also think it's not an unreasonable thing for town to do, but I still think it's worth some scum points for ADK, because I think it's more likely (than null, 30%) to be something scum would do for the WIFOM than something town would do.

Azadin looks super towny to me.  I think starting off by saying "I'm going to lurk" is something scum wouldn't do, because I would expect his partners to have told him lurking looks bad.  Yes, it's possible they told him to say that for WIFOM, but I really don't think so, it feels really genuine to me.

I don't agree about ADK, I think what he did is more likely to come from town. I agree about azadin though.

[azadin]

I think ADK is an easy target to paint scummy, but really, what motivation does scum have to propose blitz lynch?

Vote: mcmcsalot

I agree with this. I really don't think scum would risk proposing a blitz lynch like that so early in the game, even for WIFOM purposes. As scum, if you don't propose a blitz lynch like that at all, then things could proceed normally. If you do, there's a risk it would work and then you'd just look dumb and town would get a significant advantage. As town, though -- if you propose it, it just gets discussion rolling, because even if it works and you get lynched, the interactions and derived information can be very illuminating. It's not likely to work anyway. It's also just a little crazy

ADK's blitz lynch was probably not going to happen. It's not scummy remotely. Mcmc could be slightly scummy for actually talking about going to L-1, scum could derphammer and who would know.

I do think mcmc's L-1 hammer discussion is pretty scummy. Seems like something scum would be all over. "Wow, barely a real day in and we might get a town lynch!" Granted - it being that early I think most of the wagon were just getting on as a joke.

Vote: mcmcsalot for bringing ADK so close to a lynch so quickly.

Azadin is mega scummy, no one else thinks self-consciousness in a newbie is scummy?

I wouldn't know, being the newbie. I do know, however, that my self-conciousness is *entirely* driven by my being new and just getting a feel for everything. I know nothing about the meta of this site or how any of you normally act, but I am going to take chairs' advice and just get out there anyway. It also seems like you are trying pretty hard to make me look scummy. This seems like a scummy thing to do: "Let's go for the easy target!"

Robz888 and mcmcsalot are reading scummy to me at this point. ADK is reading pretty towny to me, as is scott_pilgrim (I think his thought process was wrong about ADK's reasoning, but I like that he was thinking that way.) Everyone else is null to me at this point.

[yuma]

I want to blitz-lynch someone random. Vote:scott_pilgrim

Everyone do it quick!

If scott pilgrim is mafia then I would say that ADK is as well (or vice versa potentially) otherwise I am not too concerned with this.

[yuma]

If this is all you can give me I am asserting intent to L-1 once Yuma has at least confirmed he has read everything and he doesn't scream no

I mean I'm not suggesting you have to have had a master plan, but you gotta be able to give me what went through your head, no one makes a post with zero though or because they felt like it.

vote: mcmc

IC don't need to approve of every vote. If you want to put someone to L-1 then do so, but you assume the risks yourself. Don't hide behind the IC to confirm your actions before you do them.

[yuma]

I saw ADK's blitz wagon as RVS.  I jumped on for fun, then jumped to WW as part of RVS as well, so yeah.

Vote: EgorK for bringing ADK to L-2.  He didn't even really give a reason.  I've also never really liked "Are we out of RVS yet?" posts.

vote: sudgy his scum teammates would have coached him not to do these things.

a second reason for my vote on mcmc

[yuma]

vote: chairs

Overcompensating is a scum tell.

I tend to agree. But not sure I remember seeing where chairs "overcompensated"

Can you point that out for me as I am kinda skimming....

[ashersky]

Chairs serious vote followed by an unserious vote is very unsettling. Do you still think Azadin is scummy?

I'm not sure I follow.

I think azadin's "I'm going to lurk" was, in fact, scummy.

Also I think I follow now, just realized I'd voted WW for smiley face.  Obviously that wasn't terribly serious 

That said, I'll say azadin has clearly decided to take my suggestion not to lurk to heart, and so I'll go back to vote: A Drowned Kernel because I still think the "let's blitz lynch" statement was scummy, even though he's kind of backed off of that a little.

This was the post that prompted my vote.

"I don't follow"..."wait I follow"..."smiley"..."vote other guy when my post was all about aza"...

Other overly jokey posts, too.  Seems like nerves to me.

[mcmcsalot]

woah,i have a wagon, yay, im wastee...

[A Drowned Kernel]

Azadin is mega scummy, no one else thinks self-consciousness in a newbie is scummy?

Depends on the newbie, especially if they've had a chance to read a game or two.

Nothing about the way that scott or anyone else reacted to me proposing him for a blitz lynch screams to me that he's scum, so I'll unvote

[A Drowned Kernel]

chairs seems a little off here, he says that a blitz lynch gives scum an incentive to derphammer, then votes to try and put me back in derphammer range?

Robz going after azadin is also striking me as strange, especially since I think if azadin had been coached it's just as likely he would have been told to play up his newbieness.

[chairs]

I think we're no longer in the area where scum could successfully get away with a derphammer, so I have no qualms about putting someone "in range".

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.5:

A Drowned Kernel (4) : scott_pilgrim, Witherweaver, EgorK, chairs
mcmcsalot (3) : faust, azadin, yuma
azadin (1) : Robz888
EgorK (1) : sudgy
sudgy (1) : mcmcsalot
chairs (1) : ashersky

Not Voting (1) : A Drowned Kernel

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014.

[faust]

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014.

Did the dealine change? I signed up for this game specifically because there were short deadlines.

[faust]

Also, where is everyone?

[Teproc]

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014.

Did the dealine change? I signed up for this game specifically because there were short deadlines.

The 7 days deadline ended up on July 4th, which I'm assuming would have been a problem as it's a holiday for most players, and then I generally like to avoid week-end deadlines, so I pushed it back to monday. Deadlines in future days will be 7 days though.

[faust]

Thanks for the clarification, Teproc.

Everyone who voted for ADK, could you tell me why proposing a blitz lynch is a sign of scumminess?

[azadin]

Also, where is everyone?

Hiding. (is it normally this quiet...?)

[mcmcsalot]

Thanks for the clarification, Teproc.

Everyone who voted for ADK, could you tell me why proposing a blitz lynch is a sign of scumminess?

I didn't vote but I'll give a reason, safe false productivity. What are the downsides to it for scum, it most likely doesn't go through and he just gets to say look I got the game going, if it does go through even better. What the upside for town, nothing, best case scenario the lynch doesn't go through and we move on in no more an informative place than before as people's reaction to likely useless blitz wagon are much much much different than a serious one. You won't get the same reaction out of scum partners and your going to get people on opposing sides over policy rather than in game things. This causes an uneven art divide between player supporting blitz wagon and players not supporting blitz wagon.

So in summary, I don't find supporting a blitz wagon scummy but I find starting a blitz wagon scummy since it doesn't help and causes division.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: chairs I feel the same as robz and ash, though his jumpiness was wierd

[yuma]

Travel day for me, meaning I'll catch up when I am back at home later tonight.

[sudgy]

I am now going to start calling this time the "post-RVS blues".  It happens in almost every single game.

EgorK, what do you think about my vote for you?

[EgorK]

I am now going to start calling this time the "post-RVS blues".  It happens in almost every single game.

EgorK, what do you think about my vote for you?

I do not think anything about it. Every your post before vote for me was vote, and you justification was rather strange

[yuma]

Sorry guys won't be able to catch up today. Traveling took longer than expected and wiped me out. I start my on week at work tomorrow as well + US/Belgium game, so if you can all wait one day longer I will be getting back to this asap which will probably be tomorrow evening.

[faust]

Request prods on scott_pilgrim and Witherweaver

[faust]

Thanks for the clarification, Teproc.

Everyone who voted for ADK, could you tell me why proposing a blitz lynch is a sign of scumminess?

I didn't vote but I'll give a reason, safe false productivity. What are the downsides to it for scum, it most likely doesn't go through and he just gets to say look I got the game going, if it does go through even better. What the upside for town, nothing, best case scenario the lynch doesn't go through and we move on in no more an informative place than before as people's reaction to likely useless blitz wagon are much much much different than a serious one. You won't get the same reaction out of scum partners and your going to get people on opposing sides over policy rather than in game things. This causes an uneven art divide between player supporting blitz wagon and players not supporting blitz wagon.

So in summary, I don't find supporting a blitz wagon scummy but I find starting a blitz wagon scummy since it doesn't help and causes division.

I am not sure I follow. Let me summarize what you are saying (or, how it reads to me)

1. The blitz wagon helps town in no way, and may help scum. It is therefore anti-town.
2. Still, people who support a blitz wagon are not scummy.

I'm not sure why that should be. I also don't really agree that ADK's proposal did not help town. As you yourself admitted, it got the ame going. It caused reactions. While you may not find scum by simply looking at whether they joined the wagon or not, you may find them by looking at how their reactions looked.

I think we are all experienced enough here not to let a blitz lynch go through. The chances of that happening were minimal. Also, how are you saying that blitz lynches are bad yet are willing to put someone at L-1 on like the second day?

[scott_pilgrim]

I explained earlier why I thought ADK's blitz wagon was scummy, but the more I've thought about it the more I think it's null.  I think there's good enough reason to do it as town or scum, that it's hard to conclude anything from it.

I think mcmc is slightly scummy.  Faust pointed out an inconsistency he had, but also I think "wait for the IC to tell me what I'm doing is okay" is a really scummy approach, and he had said something to that effect earlier.  I understand why town would be tempted to say that, because you feel like you can trust the IC, but it makes taking that approach makes it very easy for scum to hide behind known town.



I'll probably be gone all day tomorrow (Tues) and Thursday as well but I will be here and post on Wednesday.

[faust]

Vote: scott_pilgrim

[Teproc]

Request prods on scott_pilgrim and Witherweaver

Witherweaver has been prodded.

[ashersky]

Is this inactivity because we are not doing theory talk?

We still shouldn't do theory talk.

[ashersky]

We need IC leadership, too.

[Witherweaver]

Hi, sorry, been a bit busy.

McMc has a point that ADK's blitz is something that's easy to fill out with either alignment.  The line of logic that  it makes you look productive and involved without really posting anything of content is not a terrible one, because it's hard to find things to post as scum, and this makes you look involved right off the bat.  That's more compelling when the post feels a bit forced or contrived, though. (E.g., me at the beginning of Monster's U where Yuma jumped on me.)  I find the proposition of the blitz wagon here pretty null; could easily come from town or scum, and I see no indication one way or the other.

I don't really like the rest of McMc's explanation, but I tend never to, and this seems indicative of the town McMc I've seen before.

I find ADK's unvote peculiar, since all cases of unvoting someone's RVS vote that I've seen have been from scum (particularly, ADK in HoC).  Would he do it again here?

Scott's last post sounds a bit off.. kind of like backing out of the unpopular opinion that the blitz wagon was scummy and casting some suspicion on McMc (who is gaining a wagon) without actually voting.

Vote: Scott_Pilgrim

[mcmcsalot]

Would vote for Scott if that was going through, pretty even on terms of scummyness with chairs in my eyes.

Faust we never agree on anything. My post just make no sense as ww pointed out they never do.

I was simply saying the effects of starting a blitz wagon is anti town, once it is started since it is unlikely to go through whether you support the blitz wagon or not is irrelevant in terms if alignment.

Also want to note Adk is not even in my top two potential scum at this point this was just my reasoning for finding him scummy at the onset, scummier things have happened.

Lastly anyone voting me for "waiting for the ic to tell me what to do" is bs. There is a difference between waiting for him to tell me what to do and saying I find someone scummy and would normally vote them but I don't want to put someone to L-1 this early when our ic hasn't even had time to read. That logical not scummy.

[faust]

Would vote for Scott if that was going through, pretty even on terms of scummyness with chairs in my eyes.

Faust we never agree on anything. My post just make no sense as ww pointed out they never do.

Well, we do agree on scott. I guess that means he has to be 100% scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

We need IC leadership, too.

How about you? Do you have any thoughts besides the chairs vote?

scott getting legitimate votes is certainly interesting. He's been a little lurky but that's par for the course for him. I'm mostly still null on him.

I'm getting a town vibe on faust for the way he voted for scott though, scum doesn't just vote like that.

[ashersky]

We need IC leadership, too.

How about you? Do you have any thoughts besides the chairs vote?

scott getting legitimate votes is certainly interesting. He's been a little lurky but that's par for the course for him. I'm mostly still null on him.

I'm getting a town vibe on faust for the way he voted for scott though, scum doesn't just vote like that.

I should reread today.

Nothing has stuck out to me.

[Robz888]

I basically don't have any time for mafia for the next few two days or so. See ya later.

[yuma]

Sorry I am not providing the leadership needed... I'll try to get back to this ASAP. Sorry guys. But really you don't need my direction at all. The best IC games I have seen are ones where ICs sit back--albeit probably not quite this much--and let the game progress around them and then take the reins during crucial situations... which we aren't in at the moment. People can formulate reads and stuff w/o me. Plenty of games are played w/o an IC. I'll certainly be around to helpout in regard to the late game, but if anyone is waiting on me to post or vote then that is just silly.

[ashersky]

Okay, re-read.  Basically we've had:

1.  ADK's quick lynch plan.  He started it on SP.
2.  No theory talk please.
3.  Some odd mcmc thing.
4.  My point on chairs.
5.  Dead zone.

So, my thoughts are...if ADK is scum, so is SP.  Otherwise, ADK is town and SP is unknown.  I say this because, if ADK's thing was a scum ploy, he's definitely going to try to run it up on scum.  It's basically f.ds meta that if you can get a scum buddy close to lynch on D1, they'll survive until like D4.  I think it is most likely just a town joke that went a bit wild.

Still no theory talk please.

I don't get the mcmc thing.  He's getting a pass from me today, as he's been more active than others.  I think we'll end up on a lurker lynch today (for better or worse).


My case on chairs.  See next post.

Dead zone needs to end.  Let's get some chatter going.

[Witherweaver]

Ash sounds town for the first time I've ever seen.

[ashersky]

Here are the two posts from chairs that made me suspicious:


#1:

(This is a game. We are supposed to be having fun.  I am taking Mafia less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo so anticipate that I will, occasionally, crack a joke.)

Also to take a page from Robz's book, vote: ww for using smiley.

#2:

I'm not sure I follow.

I think azadin's "I'm going to lurk" was, in fact, scummy.

Also I think I follow now, just realized I'd voted WW for smiley face.  Obviously that wasn't terribly serious 

That said, I'll say azadin has clearly decided to take my suggestion not to lurk to heart, and so I'll go back to vote: A Drowned Kernel because I still think the "let's blitz lynch" statement was scummy, even though he's kind of backed off of that a little.

I explained #2 earlier, but it was #1 I think, that started it for me.  That "less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo" joke feels forced, and he even says he'll crack jokes right after he cracks a joke, which is an "overcompensation" or overexplanation of himself.

Imagine someone doing the following:

---I'm going to do something scummy for a reasons guys
---does something scummy
---Hey guys I just did something scummy, but there was a reason

That's what I mean by "overcompensating" for something.  It's like he really feels like he needs to make sure EVERYONE is aware that he's a jokey guy because, see, jokes!  Then in #2, he following with a smiley face joke, and overexplains himself about azadin.

So that's my small chairs case.

[ashersky]

Ash sounds town for the first time I've ever seen.

Did you delete the "so that must mean he's scum" part of your post?  Because that's what people usually say after that.

[Robz888]

Yikes I'm already falling behind here. Uh sure vote: chairs

[Witherweaver]

Ash sounds town for the first time I've ever seen.

Did you delete the "so that must mean he's scum" part of your post?  Because that's what people usually say after that.

It's more like I'm usually bewildered by you, so now I'm bewildered as to whether or not I should be bewildered.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm getting deja vu from Super Mario Bros. Isn't chairs getting lynched for "overcompensating" in a jokey way the exact same way the day one lynch went down?

[Witherweaver]

Today in bizarro news, Ash admits his weak early day 1 case is actually weak.  Coming up after the break, pigs fly.

Okay he said "small" not weak, but still a far cry from "scum found QED."

[chairs]

Today in bizarro news, Ash admits his weak early day 1 case is actually weak.  Coming up after the break, pigs fly.

Okay he said "small" not weak, but still a far cry from "scum found QED."

 

[chairs]

I'm getting deja vu from Super Mario Bros. Isn't chairs getting lynched for "overcompensating" in a jokey way the exact same way the day one lynch went down?

Do you mean the results of this?

[chairs]

Apparently I can't link worth crap.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9999.msg342471#msg342471

[azadin]

Here are the two posts from chairs that made me suspicious:


#1:

(This is a game. We are supposed to be having fun.  I am taking Mafia less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo so anticipate that I will, occasionally, crack a joke.)

Also to take a page from Robz's book, vote: ww for using smiley.

#2:

I'm not sure I follow.

I think azadin's "I'm going to lurk" was, in fact, scummy.

Also I think I follow now, just realized I'd voted WW for smiley face.  Obviously that wasn't terribly serious 

That said, I'll say azadin has clearly decided to take my suggestion not to lurk to heart, and so I'll go back to vote: A Drowned Kernel because I still think the "let's blitz lynch" statement was scummy, even though he's kind of backed off of that a little.

I explained #2 earlier, but it was #1 I think, that started it for me.  That "less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo" joke feels forced, and he even says he'll crack jokes right after he cracks a joke, which is an "overcompensation" or overexplanation of himself.

Imagine someone doing the following:

---I'm going to do something scummy for a reasons guys
---does something scummy
---Hey guys I just did something scummy, but there was a reason

That's what I mean by "overcompensating" for something.  It's like he really feels like he needs to make sure EVERYONE is aware that he's a jokey guy because, see, jokes!  Then in #2, he following with a smiley face joke, and overexplains himself about azadin.

So that's my small chairs case.

Post 1: So in a nutshell, are you saying that he's scummy precisely because he prefaced a joke by saying he would likely be telling jokes? I suppose I'm not seeing why overcompensation (at least in this particular matter) is indicative of scum behavior. So for me, this post was null.

However, your point on post #2 has convinced me that chairs is acting strange. He jumps back and forth about understanding someone else's reasoning, tries to make a joke, and confuses everything by going back to a vote he had already made on someone he admits seems less scummy than he did when he originally voted for him.

Vote: chairs

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.6:

A Drowned Kernel (3) : scott_pilgrim, EgorK, chairs
mcmcsalot (1) : yuma
azadin (1) : Robz888
EgorK (1) : sudgy
chairs (3) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, azadin
scott_pilgrim (2): faust, Witherweaver

Not Voting (1) : A Drowned Kernel

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014.

[ashersky]

Yikes I'm already falling behind here. Uh sure vote: chairs

You missed this one.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sorry!

Vote Count 1.6 (ferreal this time!):

A Drowned Kernel (3) : scott_pilgrim, EgorK, chairs
mcmcsalot (1) : yuma
EgorK (1) : sudgy
chairs (4) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888, azadin
scott_pilgrim (2): faust, Witherweaver

Not Voting (1) : A Drowned Kernel

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014.

[EgorK]

Well, I think this is as good as case on D1 can be

Vote: chairs. Serious this time around. This is L-2 if I know how to count

[faust]

The chairs wagon is strange. I mean sure, there's a case and I understand people are voting for this, but I think that (for example) the case on scott is at least just as strong (read: both are weak). EgorK saying this is "as good as a case on D1 can be" is just plain wrong, and I have seen much better D1 cases.

I really like scott over chairs. What does everyone think about scott?

[EgorK]

The chairs wagon is strange. I mean sure, there's a case and I understand people are voting for this, but I think that (for example) the case on scott is at least just as strong (read: both are weak). EgorK saying this is "as good as a case on D1 can be" is just plain wrong, and I have seen much better D1 cases.

I really like scott over chairs. What does everyone think about scott?

Well, based on my (limited) experience until first scum flip everything is crapshot. Like there may be huge mistakes that are easily noticeable, but barring that it is usually down to who done something that collective wisdom labels as scummy.

[ashersky]

I feel like there is no SP case.  Is it just "he was the named quick lynch in ADK's jokey possible scum gambit"?  Because if it is, you should be voting for ADK instead.

[mcmcsalot]

I explained earlier why I thought ADK's blitz wagon was scummy, but the more I've thought about it the more I think it's null.  I think there's good enough reason to do it as town or scum, that it's hard to conclude anything from it.

I think mcmc is slightly scummy.  Faust pointed out an inconsistency he had, but also I think "wait for the IC to tell me what I'm doing is okay" is a really scummy approach, and he had said something to that effect earlier.  I understand why town would be tempted to say that, because you feel like you can trust the IC, but it makes taking that approach makes it very easy for scum to hide behind known town.



I'll probably be gone all day tomorrow (Tues) and Thursday as well but I will be here and post on Wednesday.

The case on Scott is because of this post. He backed off thinking Adk was scummy for starting a blitz wagon just around the time it was becoming an unpopular position and he goes on to call me scummy but doesn't vote. From a neutral perspective he looks a lot like he's just trying to be on the favorable side of everything and doesn't commit to anything. It's not a slam dunk but I agree with Faust I think it's pretty comparable to the case on chairs in terms of strength.

I would lynch either. Also Scott's alignment helps us a tad more.

[Witherweaver]

I explained earlier why I thought ADK's blitz wagon was scummy, but the more I've thought about it the more I think it's null.  I think there's good enough reason to do it as town or scum, that it's hard to conclude anything from it.

I think mcmc is slightly scummy.  Faust pointed out an inconsistency he had, but also I think "wait for the IC to tell me what I'm doing is okay" is a really scummy approach, and he had said something to that effect earlier.  I understand why town would be tempted to say that, because you feel like you can trust the IC, but it makes taking that approach makes it very easy for scum to hide behind known town.



I'll probably be gone all day tomorrow (Tues) and Thursday as well but I will be here and post on Wednesday.

The case on Scott is because of this post. He backed off thinking Adk was scummy for starting a blitz wagon just around the time it was becoming an unpopular position and he goes on to call me scummy but doesn't vote. From a neutral perspective he looks a lot like he's just trying to be on the favorable side of everything and doesn't commit to anything. It's not a slam dunk but I agree with Faust I think it's pretty comparable to the case on chairs in terms of strength.

I would lynch either. Also Scott's alignment helps us a tad more.

This is how I felt about Scott's post, too.  I already posted about it.

But you're voting for Chairs, McMc?

I'm suspicious of the people sheeping Ash after he posted his case, but not so much Ash himself.  So Robz, Azadin, EgorK.

[faust]

I feel like there is no SP case.  Is it just "he was the named quick lynch in ADK's jokey possible scum gambit"?  Because if it is, you should be voting for ADK instead.

The case on scott is: He was on the first big wagon on ADK. When that lost drive, he hedged on the second big wagon on mcmc.

[mcmcsalot]

Chairs serious vote followed by an unserious vote is very unsettling. Do you still think Azadin is scummy?

I posted this before ash or robz said anything about chairs. My next posts were a back and forth about the Adk blitz lynch thing and then I voted chairs. I think the vote jumping combined with the overcompensation as robz and ash put it is pretty scummy.

Also my reiteration of the Scott case was not meant as a new revelation I was just answering ash as the what the case was. I have said I would vote for either.

As for egork and Azadin, Azadin seems to just genuinely agree with the case and reads towny. Egork's post feels more forced as though he wants to vote for chairs but feels like he needs to make up a new reason. I lean scummy on him already so this strengthens that, however I can see this coming from newbie town who just didn't want to vote with no new reason.

[faust]

Chairs serious vote followed by an unserious vote is very unsettling. Do you still think Azadin is scummy?

I posted this before ash or robz said anything about chairs. My next posts were a back and forth about the Adk blitz lynch thing and then I voted chairs. I think the vote jumping combined with the overcompensation as robz and ash put it is pretty scummy.

Also my reiteration of the Scott case was not meant as a new revelation I was just answering ash as the what the case was. I have said I would vote for either.

As for egork and Azadin, Azadin seems to just genuinely agree with the case and reads towny. Egork's post feels more forced as though he wants to vote for chairs but feels like he needs to make up a new reason. I lean scummy on him already so this strengthens that, however I can see this coming from newbie town who just didn't want to vote with no new reason.

Well, I don't want to lynch EgorK for that because ongoing game reasons.

[scott_pilgrim]

Lastly anyone voting me for "waiting for the ic to tell me what to do" is bs. There is a difference between waiting for him to tell me what to do and saying I find someone scummy and would normally vote them but I don't want to put someone to L-1 this early when our ic hasn't even had time to read. That logical not scummy.

Well, I guess my problem is, I'm not sure why you would even consider putting someone at L-1 that early in the first place.  But if you are considering it, you should have a good enough reason that you don't need to wait for the IC's approval.


Also, the case on chairs is really awful and I'm surprised he has five votes.  This looks exactly like the beginning of Super Mario to me, I think that's just how chairs plays and not an alignment tell.  Null on ash for making the case, since I think it's fine for town to make weak cases, but I feel like everyone who just followed him deserves some scum points.  Azadin I'm still pretty sure is town though, and I think new players are likely to be sheepy regardless of alignment.  Robz sounds like he's just busy and doesn't care about the game, which is annoying, but I don't think indicative of alignment.  So I guess I'm leaning scummy on EgorK and mcmc, but I think literally every game I've played with mcmc I thought he was scum and he ended up being town, so I'm not sure what to make of finding him scummy.

That leaves me with vote: EgorK

[ashersky]

I explained earlier why I thought ADK's blitz wagon was scummy, but the more I've thought about it the more I think it's null.  I think there's good enough reason to do it as town or scum, that it's hard to conclude anything from it.

I think mcmc is slightly scummy.  Faust pointed out an inconsistency he had, but also I think "wait for the IC to tell me what I'm doing is okay" is a really scummy approach, and he had said something to that effect earlier.  I understand why town would be tempted to say that, because you feel like you can trust the IC, but it makes taking that approach makes it very easy for scum to hide behind known town.



I'll probably be gone all day tomorrow (Tues) and Thursday as well but I will be here and post on Wednesday.

The case on Scott is because of this post. He backed off thinking Adk was scummy for starting a blitz wagon just around the time it was becoming an unpopular position and he goes on to call me scummy but doesn't vote. From a neutral perspective he looks a lot like he's just trying to be on the favorable side of everything and doesn't commit to anything. It's not a slam dunk but I agree with Faust I think it's pretty comparable to the case on chairs in terms of strength.

I would lynch either. Also Scott's alignment helps us a tad more.

Thanks.  Basically he's been hedgy.

The devil's advocate argument would be "town changes their mind, especially if people made good points."  I'm not too sold on that ADK unvote.

The second bit, about mcmc, is on the scummy side.  That's a fair point.

I think if ADK is scum, so is sp.  So the opposite works.  ADK is the better lynch, though, since we would get more info on sp after the lynch, plus all the quick wagon reactions, etc.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Robz being absent day one is a town tell for him. ash seems more subdued than I've seen him other times, but he's pretty much always been scum when I played with him.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm not too sold on the chairs wagon. I'd like to hear more from him.

[ashersky]

Robz being absent day one is a town tell for him. ash seems more subdued than I've seen him other times, but he's pretty much always been scum when I played with him.

I'm just insanely busy IRL.

[chairs]

I'm not too sold on the chairs wagon. I'd like to hear more from him.

I mean, what do you want to hear me talk about?  I feel like I'm being punished for being open, so I'm opting to restrict myself to answering questions at the moment.

[A Drowned Kernel]

How about, do you think the people voting for you are scummy?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Robz being absent day one is a town tell for him. ash seems more subdued than I've seen him other times, but he's pretty much always been scum when I played with him.

I'm just insanely busy IRL.

I actually meant that as a "ash seems towny to me". And it's not that you're not contributing, it's that you seem less aggressive than I've seen you in the past.

[chairs]

How about, do you think the people voting for you are scummy?

If I'm reading correctly, my current "voting for me" list is:

chairs (4) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888, azadin

and EgorK.  If I've missed anybody, please advise.

It's day 1, which is really difficult for me.   Ashersky seems to be playing a fairly Towny game.  mcmc feels a little hedgy to me, but it's D1 so I consider that a null tell at the moment.  Robz hasn't really stuck out in my head at all, and azadin's in much the same position.  EgorK seems to be pretty content with my lynch, and the way he's responded recently feels mildly scummy.

I agree with mcmc here:

...Egork's post feels more forced as though he wants to vote for chairs but feels like he needs to make up a new reason...

[Teproc]

Eevee has replaced yuma.

[Eevee]

Only nine pages, I thought this was further.

Okay! I'll be catching up tomorrow, I haven't read a single post yet.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.7:

chairs (5) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888, azadin, EgorK
scott_pilgrim (2): faust, Witherweaver
EgorK (2) : sudgy, scott_pilgrim
A Drowned Kernel (1) : chairs
mcmcsalot (1) : Eevee

Not Voting (1) : A Drowned Kernel

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014.

[chairs]

I thought I'd updated my vote in my last post.

vote: EgorK.

[Witherweaver]

ADK hasn't called me scum yet this game.. not sure if he's feeling well.

[Witherweaver]

Unvote from Scott's last post.  It didn't really seem at all scummy.

[Witherweaver]

Robz being absent day one is a town tell for him. ash seems more subdued than I've seen him other times, but he's pretty much always been scum when I played with him.

I think that's a Robz tell more than a town tell.  He did the same in Xmen, only to swoop back in to manipulate lynch time.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Robz for feigned disinterest and jumping on the Chairs wagon.

[EgorK]

...Egork's post feels more forced as though he wants to vote for chairs but feels like he needs to make up a new reason...

For my own amusement I checked games starting at M32 to M45 (I was not able to find M31 for some reason). In this games total of 4 scum were lynched D1. If chosen at random ~3.66 scum would be lynched. Just saying

[Eevee]

Well, you guys haven't been posting too much, which made catching up easier but isn't good going forward. Weekends tend to be more or less dead, and the deadline is already monday.

I'm going to go to a run and contemplate everything I just read, but my first impression is that I'm not too sold on lynching chairs. I'm going to refrain from giving reads unless it's relevant to a topic of conversation, because who/what the IC views towny or scummy seems like information that's more likely to help scum at this point.

I'm happy to see a new face. Welcome, azadin!

[Witherweaver]

Eevee has replaced yuma.

Man... really dropped the ball by not putting "A wild Eevee appears!" here...

[Eevee]

...Egork's post feels more forced as though he wants to vote for chairs but feels like he needs to make up a new reason...

For my own amusement I checked games starting at M32 to M45 (I was not able to find M31 for some reason). In this games total of 4 scum were lynched D1. If chosen at random ~3.66 scum would be lynched. Just saying

What do you mean by this? The quote and what you replied don't seem to be about the same subject.

[Eevee]

Those who don't like the chairs-lynch, can you propose alternatives that might spur some discussion?

[faust]

Those who don't like the chairs-lynch, can you propose alternatives that might spur some discussion?

scott is super hedgy and not as townie as he usually is.

[Eevee]

Those who don't like the chairs-lynch, can you propose alternatives that might spur some discussion?

scott is super hedgy and not as townie as he usually is.

I actually disagree here. His attempts to analyze the setup read interested town to me, and while his posting has been scarce, his content to post ratio is quite high. I give him town points for being a voice of reason against the chairs wagon as well.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Those who don't like the chairs-lynch, can you propose alternatives that might spur some discussion?

sudgy's been super quiet. vote: sudgy

[A Drowned Kernel]

I just looked over sudgy's posts and yeah, I'm actually feeling really good about that vote. He's very much hanging back and not making waves.

[EgorK]

...Egork's post feels more forced as though he wants to vote for chairs but feels like he needs to make up a new reason...

For my own amusement I checked games starting at M32 to M45 (I was not able to find M31 for some reason). In this games total of 4 scum were lynched D1. If chosen at random ~3.66 scum would be lynched. Just saying

What do you mean by this? The quote and what you replied don't seem to be about the same subject.

I just continued my thought and was to lazy to find relevant post to quote, so quoted assesment of my initial post

PPE: 2

[Eevee]

I just looked over sudgy's posts and yeah, I'm actually feeling really good about that vote. He's very much hanging back and not making waves.

I don't quite know how to explain this, but upon rereading him, I found it surprising how polished everything he has posted has been. He looks cautious and calculating.

vote: sudgy

[faust]

Agreed. Also, lynch all lurkers is more important here than usually.

Vote: sudgy

[Eevee]

Agreed. Also, lynch all lurkers is more important here than usually.

Why so?

[faust]

Agreed. Also, lynch all lurkers is more important here than usually.

Why so?

Because everyone lurks here, and this lurking should be discouraged. Also, when a game stalls like that, scum are more likely than town to just leave it there.

[mcmcsalot]

Agreed. Also, lynch all lurkers is more important here than usually.

Why so?

Because everyone lurks here, and this lurking should be discouraged. Also, when a game stalls like that, scum are more likely than town to just leave it there.

I disagree(shocker) I think this early in a game scum takes advantage of stalls and tries to get town cred for posting and trying to "get the game moving"

[mcmcsalot]

I just looked over sudgy's posts and yeah, I'm actually feeling really good about that vote. He's very much hanging back and not making waves.

I don't quite know how to explain this, but upon rereading him, I found it surprising how polished everything he has posted has been. He looks cautious and calculating.

vote: sudgy

I don't love the sudgy lynch but I don't hate it either, he's in my would lynch

[faust]

Agreed. Also, lynch all lurkers is more important here than usually.

Why so?

Because everyone lurks here, and this lurking should be discouraged. Also, when a game stalls like that, scum are more likely than town to just leave it there.

I disagree(shocker) I think this early in a game scum takes advantage of stalls and tries to get town cred for posting and trying to "get the game moving"

But I don't see many people trying to "get the game moving" here.

[mcmcsalot]

Agreed. Also, lynch all lurkers is more important here than usually.

Why so?

Because everyone lurks here, and this lurking should be discouraged. Also, when a game stalls like that, scum are more likely than town to just leave it there.

I disagree(shocker) I think this early in a game scum takes advantage of stalls and tries to get town cred for posting and trying to "get the game moving"

But I don't see many people trying to "get the game moving" here.

hence why i feel like lurker vs non lurker is a null tell. That being said there is still the typical advantages of lynching a lurker.

[azadin]

One thing I've noticed in my first game is that it's hard to get a read on people based solely off how they're making arguments and responding to other people's arguments since there was nothing to start the arguments initially. Day 1 you have nothing...so you are just saying random things attempting to glean information from other people's behavior. I imagine this dramatically changes after Day 1 when you can go back and see what people were saying and then actually have premises for arguments (that is, the lynch flip and any night actions).

Am I wrong? Seems to me Day 1 is pretty much a crapshoot. That being said, I am still of the opinion that chairs seemed to be really wishy washy with the strange behavior ash and I already discussed, so I still like my vote. Is sudgy at 3 votes now? Need to go back and reread and see if I also notice what mcmc, faust, and ADK are talking about.

[A Drowned Kernel]

There's less information on day one than on later days but there's not none, it's still possible to form reads on people based solely on what they say, and if you're a good enough player that's hopefully better than picking randomly. Day one interactions are also important to go back and read later knowing people's alignments.

[chairs]

Just FYI, I will be V/LA for 'Murica's birthday as I will be spending the weekend (starting tonight) with my girlfriend's family, far from my sweet, sweet computer.

I will try to read from my phone but I make no guarantees.

[Eevee]

Just FYI, I will be V/LA for 'Murica's birthday as I will be spending the weekend (starting tonight) with my girlfriend's family, far from my sweet, sweet computer.

I will try to read from my phone but I make no guarantees.

Who should we lynch?

[chairs]

Can I go with "not me"?

I guess I'll vote: sudgy since that's a reasonable D1 lynch, I suppose.

[Robz888]

Hey guys I'll catch up this weekend.

[sudgy]

So, I'm busy from Sunday until now, and I finally decide to get back into this, and I have a wagon.

And it's the same wagon I get every game.  Yippee.  I'm not even answering it, it's the same every time.

Anyway, EgorK, my vote on you was a serious vote.

I have somewhat agreed with chairs' scumminess, and this post:

Can I go with "not me"?

I guess I'll vote: sudgy since that's a reasonable D1 lynch, I suppose.

screams scum to me as well.  Is chairs still close to being lynched?

[mcmcsalot]

This sounds genuinely like town sudgy

[faust]

This sounds genuinely like town sudgy

I disagree (well, there's a surprise again). I think particularly the way he picks a completely null, maybe even townie post from chairs and says it "screams scum" because it's self-preserving... is scummy. Not responding to a wagon at all is also anti-town at least.

[sudgy]

This sounds genuinely like town sudgy

I disagree (well, there's a surprise again). I think particularly the way he picks a completely null, maybe even townie post from chairs and says it "screams scum" because it's self-preserving... is scummy. Not responding to a wagon at all is also anti-town at least.

It's not because it's self preserving, it's that he votes for me because I'm "a good D1 lynch".

[faust]

This sounds genuinely like town sudgy

I disagree (well, there's a surprise again). I think particularly the way he picks a completely null, maybe even townie post from chairs and says it "screams scum" because it's self-preserving... is scummy. Not responding to a wagon at all is also anti-town at least.

It's not because it's self preserving, it's that he votes for me because I'm "a good D1 lynch".

Do you mean to say he's voting you for the wrong reasons?

Seriously though, can you explain what about this is scummy?

[Eevee]

My vote on you is specifically for being different than usual. You seem too polished. Explaining your rvs, not sheeping but making sure every post includes reasons and reads.

[EgorK]

Anyway, EgorK, my vote on you was a serious vote.

Then I'll answer. With this vote I wanted to pressure ADK to overreact if he is scum as L-2 may make scum nervous. On the other hand L-2 is unlikely to be depred into lynch

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.8:

chairs (5) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888, azadin, EgorK
sudgy (4) : A Drowned Kernel, Eevee, faust, chairs
EgorK (2) : sudgy, scott_pilgrim
Robz888 (1) : Witherweaver

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014.

[Eevee]

Seriously, people. Posting. It's a thing.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm completely fine lynching sudgy. Most other people I'm more-or-less null on, except for faust, who I still think is town.

I don't find Egork's L-2 vote on me particularly scummy, and I think he's playing pretty much the same way he did in Rerun, so I'll have to see a bit more evidence before I'd vote for him. That said he (and others) should post more.

[azadin]

I just looked over sudgy's posts and yeah, I'm actually feeling really good about that vote. He's very much hanging back and not making waves.

I don't quite know how to explain this, but upon rereading him, I found it surprising how polished everything he has posted has been. He looks cautious and calculating.

vote: sudgy

So, I'm busy from Sunday until now, and I finally decide to get back into this, and I have a wagon.

And it's the same wagon I get every game.  Yippee.  I'm not even answering it, it's the same every time.

Anyway, EgorK, my vote on you was a serious vote.

I have somewhat agreed with chairs' scumminess, and this post:

Can I go with "not me"?

I guess I'll vote: sudgy since that's a reasonable D1 lynch, I suppose.

screams scum to me as well.  Is chairs still close to being lynched?

Ok, I just reread. Honestly I'm not getting the same vibe from sudgy. His posts didn't seem overly cautious or calculating and he's actually acting more towny in my opinion. His exasperation about having a wagon on D1 again seems genuine (though I can't vouch for the authenticity of the claim).


Question for sudgy though -- how come you didn't vote chairs if he screams scum to you? You mention your vote on EgorK was a serious one, but I guess I'm failing to see why. If you think chairs is scummy, why not vote? Also, the post from chairs he quoted here just re-enforces my vote on him. He doesn't really give any reasons whatsoever for his vote on sudgy except that he's a reasonable D1 lynch. And he supposes. That tells me he's trying to be non-chalant about the post and not be too assuming, which is scummy.

[sudgy]

Question for sudgy though -- how come you didn't vote chairs if he screams scum to you? You mention your vote on EgorK was a serious one, but I guess I'm failing to see why. If you think chairs is scummy, why not vote? Also, the post from chairs he quoted here just re-enforces my vote on him. He doesn't really give any reasons whatsoever for his vote on sudgy except that he's a reasonable D1 lynch. And he supposes. That tells me he's trying to be non-chalant about the post and not be too assuming, which is scummy.

I knew he was close to being lynched and I didn't want to accidentally hammer.  I asked, and nobody answered.  Teproc posted a vote count, so Vote: chairs.  This is L-1

[faust]

So, I've read ashersky's case on chairs, and I disagree. Does anyone have other reason to vote chairs?

[faust]

I don't like how ashersky and Robz started the chairs wagon and have basically disappeared since then.

[Witherweaver]

Sudgy you say this is the same wagon he gets every game, but it seems decidingly not.  You're called out for specifically acting unusual.

[Witherweaver]

Sorry, that should say "you get every game".

[sudgy]

Sudgy you say this is the same wagon he gets every game, but it seems decidingly not.  You're called out for specifically acting unusual.

Half of it is that, and half was "he seems overly cautious".  The second is what I always am, and I always have a slightly different playstyle depending on factors such as availability.

[Robz888]

Caught up--sort of? I skimmed--and I don't know. Probably, I like a sudgy lynch better than chairs lynch. Vote: sudgy

[sudgy]

Caught up--sort of? I skimmed--and I don't know. Probably, I like a sudgy lynch better than chairs lynch. Vote: sudgy

It doesn't have to be me or chairs, we still have some time left.  Why do you like my lynch, and why do you not like chairs'?

[scott_pilgrim]

Right now I think I'm at:

100% town: Eevee, scott_pilgrim
Moderate town: azadin
Slight town: sudgy
Null: WW, ADK, faust, chairs, mcmc
Slight scum: ashersky, Robz, EgorK

So I'm happy with my vote on EgorK, I think he is the best lynch.  Lynching someone who's null isn't bad here though, and I would probably even vote sudgy to get a lynch through, but I prefer chairs (but not going to hammer now since we still have time).

[Robz888]

Right now I think I'm at:

100% town: Eevee, scott_pilgrim
Moderate town: azadin
Slight town: sudgy
Null: WW, ADK, faust, chairs, mcmc
Slight scum: ashersky, Robz, EgorK

So I'm happy with my vote on EgorK, I think he is the best lynch.  Lynching someone who's null isn't bad here though, and I would probably even vote sudgy to get a lynch through, but I prefer chairs (but not going to hammer now since we still have time).

I don't feel like this can honestly be based on anything, this early.

[scott_pilgrim]

Right now I think I'm at:

100% town: Eevee, scott_pilgrim
Moderate town: azadin
Slight town: sudgy
Null: WW, ADK, faust, chairs, mcmc
Slight scum: ashersky, Robz, EgorK

So I'm happy with my vote on EgorK, I think he is the best lynch.  Lynching someone who's null isn't bad here though, and I would probably even vote sudgy to get a lynch through, but I prefer chairs (but not going to hammer now since we still have time).

I don't feel like this can honestly be based on anything, this early.

It's based on my reads up to this point.  Obviously I'm aware it's D1 and they're not going to be very accurate, which is why everyone (except azadin) is in the slight town-slight scum range (and mostly null).

[EgorK]

Caught up--sort of? I skimmed--and I don't know. Probably, I like a sudgy lynch better than chairs lynch. Vote: sudgy

I find this change on L-1 kinda fishy. It could be scum partner thinking "crap, they can lynch him". I'm happy with where my vote is and if chairs would flip scum Robz would be on top of my scum list

PPE: 1

[Eevee]

Right now I think I'm at:

100% town: Eevee, scott_pilgrim
Moderate town: azadin
Slight town: sudgy
Null: WW, ADK, faust, chairs, mcmc
Slight scum: ashersky, Robz, EgorK

So I'm happy with my vote on EgorK, I think he is the best lynch.  Lynching someone who's null isn't bad here though, and I would probably even vote sudgy to get a lynch through, but I prefer chairs (but not going to hammer now since we still have time).

If you want to leave your vote at egor (which in itself is actually great), you should make much much more or an effort to get others to join. This just reads as "you may mislynch either of sudgy or chairs, I'm staying out of it and keeping my hands clean". This is actually so scummy that I'm tempted to switch my vote to you, but I'd like to reread you first and I can't do it now. I encourage others to do it and consider you though.

[scott_pilgrim]

Well, I already gave my case for EgorK (which wasn't amazing, but I think it's a lot better than the cases on sudgy and chairs), and I guess I assumed by saying "I'm leaving my vote there for now" it was implied that "I would really like others to join me", because obviously I can't lynch him by myself.

[Witherweaver]

Interesting:

Hehe I don't know what makes me happier that ash brought back mom salon or that teproc has no idea it's me.

On helpful news, I agree with robz and ash and like that Yuma is ic, do not want to lynch there, two newbies Azadin and egork, barring super scummyness don't want to lynch there.

Faust, Adk, ww, chairs, scott, sudgy

Scott and ww both posted helpful stuff that I agreed with

Adk's over cautiousness is scummy(robz mentioned). Adk what was your reason for the blitz wagon?

Faust, Scott already said wha you said in your post, did you miss it or feel like saying it anyway because you can't figure anything else out to post you scummy scum scum(that got out of hand)

Sudgy why the change to ww, the Scott vote seemed random enough, so a quick random change makes no sense.

Hi chairs!

And:

Fixed

Adk what was your reason for the blitz wagon?

I felt like it.

If this is all you can give me I am asserting intent to L-1 once Yuma has at least confirmed he has read everything and he doesn't scream no

I mean I'm not suggesting you have to have had a master plan, but you gotta be able to give me what went through your head, no one makes a post with zero though or because they felt like it.

Calls overcaution scummy and then acts overcautiously.  Does this make sense as scum?  Usually when scum tries to push a mislynch they have their reasoning/argument pretty well in mind.. at least I do.. I definitely notice if I'm about to do something that I'm using to call someone else scummy and stop myself from doing so.  So, this gives me a town impression on McMc.

[Witherweaver]

I saw ADK's blitz wagon as RVS.  I jumped on for fun, then jumped to WW as part of RVS as well, so yeah.

Vote: EgorK for bringing ADK to L-2.  He didn't even really give a reason.  I've also never really liked "Are we out of RVS yet?" posts.

This doesn't make all that much sense.  How often does scum just bring someone to L-2 without a reason? 

(I feel like someone might have brought this up already, but I'm rereading and posting thoughts as I see them.)

[Witherweaver]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

Everyone kind of let this one go after responding with "no don't lurk"... weird that this was the first time anyone brought up lurking.  Have you played forum mafia or those games before, Azadin? 

When has someone ever announced the intent to do something distinctly anti-town/scummy?

[Witherweaver]

Chairs serious vote followed by an unserious vote is very unsettling. Do you still think Azadin is scummy?

I'm not sure I follow.

I think azadin's "I'm going to lurk" was, in fact, scummy.

Also I think I follow now, just realized I'd voted WW for smiley face.  Obviously that wasn't terribly serious 

That said, I'll say azadin has clearly decided to take my suggestion not to lurk to heart, and so I'll go back to vote: A Drowned Kernel because I still think the "let's blitz lynch" statement was scummy, even though he's kind of backed off of that a little.

What's scummy about it, though? A blitz wagon, even if it fails, gets the game going at least.

I think a request for a blitz wagon gives scum a lot of incentive to hop on early and see if you can get town to derphammer somebody.

I have a very hard time seeing this as a possible scenario.  Looks like another case of someone trying to act very cautious. 

[Witherweaver]

I explained earlier why I thought ADK's blitz wagon was scummy, but the more I've thought about it the more I think it's null.  I think there's good enough reason to do it as town or scum, that it's hard to conclude anything from it.

I think mcmc is slightly scummy.  Faust pointed out an inconsistency he had, but also I think "wait for the IC to tell me what I'm doing is okay" is a really scummy approach, and he had said something to that effect earlier.  I understand why town would be tempted to say that, because you feel like you can trust the IC, but it makes taking that approach makes it very easy for scum to hide behind known town.



I'll probably be gone all day tomorrow (Tues) and Thursday as well but I will be here and post on Wednesday.

This was my reason for voting Scott in the first place.. it still strikes me as scummy. 

[Witherweaver]

Would vote for Scott if that was going through, pretty even on terms of scummyness with chairs in my eyes.

Faust we never agree on anything. My post just make no sense as ww pointed out they never do.

I was simply saying the effects of starting a blitz wagon is anti town, once it is started since it is unlikely to go through whether you support the blitz wagon or not is irrelevant in terms if alignment.

Also want to note Adk is not even in my top two potential scum at this point this was just my reasoning for finding him scummy at the onset, scummier things have happened.

Lastly anyone voting me for "waiting for the ic to tell me what to do" is bs. There is a difference between waiting for him to tell me what to do and saying I find someone scummy and would normally vote them but I don't want to put someone to L-1 this early when our ic hasn't even had time to read. That logical not scummy.

Well this is a good point about not moving the game along too fast when the IC hasn't had time to read.. but.. would putting someone to L-1 that quickly be good anyway?  Would you have done it with no IC?

[Witherweaver]

Okay, re-read.  Basically we've had:

1.  ADK's quick lynch plan.  He started it on SP.
2.  No theory talk please.
3.  Some odd mcmc thing.
4.  My point on chairs.
5.  Dead zone.

So, my thoughts are...if ADK is scum, so is SP.  Otherwise, ADK is town and SP is unknown.  I say this because, if ADK's thing was a scum ploy, he's definitely going to try to run it up on scum.  It's basically f.ds meta that if you can get a scum buddy close to lynch on D1, they'll survive until like D4.  I think it is most likely just a town joke that went a bit wild.

Still no theory talk please.

I don't get the mcmc thing.  He's getting a pass from me today, as he's been more active than others.  I think we'll end up on a lurker lynch today (for better or worse).


My case on chairs.  See next post.

Dead zone needs to end.  Let's get some chatter going.

This is a good point about ADK's relation to SP.  This post gives me a town feeling on Ash.

[Witherweaver]

Here are the two posts from chairs that made me suspicious:


#1:

(This is a game. We are supposed to be having fun.  I am taking Mafia less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo so anticipate that I will, occasionally, crack a joke.)

Also to take a page from Robz's book, vote: ww for using smiley.

#2:

I'm not sure I follow.

I think azadin's "I'm going to lurk" was, in fact, scummy.

Also I think I follow now, just realized I'd voted WW for smiley face.  Obviously that wasn't terribly serious 

That said, I'll say azadin has clearly decided to take my suggestion not to lurk to heart, and so I'll go back to vote: A Drowned Kernel because I still think the "let's blitz lynch" statement was scummy, even though he's kind of backed off of that a little.

I explained #2 earlier, but it was #1 I think, that started it for me.  That "less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo" joke feels forced, and he even says he'll crack jokes right after he cracks a joke, which is an "overcompensation" or overexplanation of himself.

Imagine someone doing the following:

---I'm going to do something scummy for a reasons guys
---does something scummy
---Hey guys I just did something scummy, but there was a reason

That's what I mean by "overcompensating" for something.  It's like he really feels like he needs to make sure EVERYONE is aware that he's a jokey guy because, see, jokes!  Then in #2, he following with a smiley face joke, and overexplains himself about azadin.

So that's my small chairs case.

I don't buy this particularly because you lost some context.  Before these quotes from Chairs was Chairs making a joking post where he brought up aliens, me responding with question marks, and him explaining that he was joking.  So the order in your scenario is off.

Full context (sorry for long posts):

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

vote: azadin

No lurking.  If you're Town, then just posting "So here's what I think of this" even if it's "Well, I thought this was interesting and it makes me feel like X is more scummy/less scummy/posting too little/possibly an alien" is great.  The more that you post about what you're reading and what you think of what you read, the more interactions we get from you, the more we can in turn state what we think about your opinions, creating interactions of our own that you can then read into - which is how you get to say "Aha! Based on all these people talking, and what they're talking about (and ignoring), I can say that I think this one is the Mafioso plaguing our fair city!"... and eventually we lynch one, and find out if we were right, and that gives us more data to go through and refine our opinions of everyone else based on the interactions that occurred.

In other words, not talking is giving Mafia the excuse to not talk, and if they can get away with not talking, their Days are easier.

(This is a game. We are supposed to be having fun.  I am taking Mafia less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo so anticipate that I will, occasionally, crack a joke.)

Also to take a page from Robz's book, vote: ww for using smiley.

[Witherweaver]

Chairs serious vote followed by an unserious vote is very unsettling. Do you still think Azadin is scummy?

I posted this before ash or robz said anything about chairs. My next posts were a back and forth about the Adk blitz lynch thing and then I voted chairs. I think the vote jumping combined with the overcompensation as robz and ash put it is pretty scummy.

Also my reiteration of the Scott case was not meant as a new revelation I was just answering ash as the what the case was. I have said I would vote for either.

As for egork and Azadin, Azadin seems to just genuinely agree with the case and reads towny. Egork's post feels more forced as though he wants to vote for chairs but feels like he needs to make up a new reason. I lean scummy on him already so this strengthens that, however I can see this coming from newbie town who just didn't want to vote with no new reason.

I believe EgorK would have come up with a better reason if he felt the need to make up a reason.  Azadin seems scummier for looking like he has all his bases covered.

[Witherweaver]

Question for sudgy though -- how come you didn't vote chairs if he screams scum to you? You mention your vote on EgorK was a serious one, but I guess I'm failing to see why. If you think chairs is scummy, why not vote? Also, the post from chairs he quoted here just re-enforces my vote on him. He doesn't really give any reasons whatsoever for his vote on sudgy except that he's a reasonable D1 lynch. And he supposes. That tells me he's trying to be non-chalant about the post and not be too assuming, which is scummy.

I knew he was close to being lynched and I didn't want to accidentally hammer.  I asked, and nobody answered.  Teproc posted a vote count, so Vote: chairs.  This is L-1

Here is overcaution again.. you could have looked at the votes yourself and decided if you wanted to put Chairs to L-1... no need to ask us if it's okay.

(Well, by "here" I actually mean the original post up there that Azadin was calling out.)

[Witherweaver]

Sudgy you say this is the same wagon he gets every game, but it seems decidingly not.  You're called out for specifically acting unusual.

Half of it is that, and half was "he seems overly cautious".  The second is what I always am, and I always have a slightly different playstyle depending on factors such as availability.

I guess I've only been in one (I think?) game with you, but I didn't get an impression of overcautiousness  there at all.

[Witherweaver]

Caught up--sort of? I skimmed--and I don't know. Probably, I like a sudgy lynch better than chairs lynch. Vote: sudgy

So, like.. just vote whomever has a wagon at the moment?

[Eevee]

 Yeah, robz isn't putting in too much effort yet, but there isn't a whole lot we can do about that. Has scott ever been scum?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.9:

chairs (5) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, azadin, EgorK, sudgy
sudgy (5): A Drowned Kernel, Eevee, faust, chairs, Robz888
EgorK (1) : scott_pilgrim
Robz888(1) : Witherweaver

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014.

[ashersky]

2 days to deadline?  I've seen nothing compelling as I've followed along over the holiday weekend.

[Eevee]

2 days to deadline?  I've seen nothing compelling as I've followed along over the holiday weekend.

What do you think of scott?

[mcmcsalot]

2 days to deadline?  I've seen nothing compelling as I've followed along over the holiday weekend.

same, other than a quiet helpful town read on ww

[ashersky]

I feel like there is no SP case.  Is it just "he was the named quick lynch in ADK's jokey possible scum gambit"?  Because if it is, you should be voting for ADK instead.

[Eevee]

I feel like there is no SP case.  Is it just "he was the named quick lynch in ADK's jokey possible scum gambit"?  Because if it is, you should be voting for ADK instead.

So am I the only one who sees the post I quoted as extremely scummy?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't find ash restating his case by quoting himself scummy if that's how he feels, but I don't think that the case on scott is just that I picked him for the blitz lynch.

I think the only time scott's been scum was in Greater Idea.

[ashersky]

I feel like there is no SP case.  Is it just "he was the named quick lynch in ADK's jokey possible scum gambit"?  Because if it is, you should be voting for ADK instead.

So am I the only one who sees the post I quoted as extremely scummy?

Yes.

[Eevee]

People (not singling anyone in particular out here) don't seem concerned enough (at all!) about the fact that deadline is super close. Posting "I don't much believe in either of the major wagons" without offering your own and trying to persuade others to join is very bad at this point.

Seriously! We need to do something here!

[ashersky]

People (not singling anyone in particular out here) don't seem concerned enough (at all!) about the fact that deadline is super close. Posting "I don't much believe in either of the major wagons" without offering your own and trying to persuade others to join is very bad at this point.

Seriously! We need to do something here!

Who's saying that?  Everyone but 2 is on the major wagons.  Those two need to choose at this point.

[Eevee]

People (not singling anyone in particular out here) don't seem concerned enough (at all!) about the fact that deadline is super close. Posting "I don't much believe in either of the major wagons" without offering your own and trying to persuade others to join is very bad at this point.

Seriously! We need to do something here!

Who's saying that?  Everyone but 2 is on the major wagons.  Those two need to choose at this point.

People don't seem very committed, even if they have their vote on either wagon. I foresee a lot of "well it wasn't my preferred lynch, but not the worst thing ever either" explanations tomorrow (unless we manage to hit scum). I guess I'd like to see more conviction or "no, let's lynch this person because of xxx" rather than this "well I don't oppose either lynch" situation I'm reading here.

[ashersky]

People (not singling anyone in particular out here) don't seem concerned enough (at all!) about the fact that deadline is super close. Posting "I don't much believe in either of the major wagons" without offering your own and trying to persuade others to join is very bad at this point.

Seriously! We need to do something here!

Who's saying that?  Everyone but 2 is on the major wagons.  Those two need to choose at this point.

People don't seem very committed, even if they have their vote on either wagon. I foresee a lot of "well it wasn't my preferred lynch, but not the worst thing ever either" explanations tomorrow (unless we manage to hit scum). I guess I'd like to see more conviction or "no, let's lynch this person because of xxx" rather than this "well I don't oppose either lynch" situation I'm reading here.

Let's lynch chairs because of my case.

[Eevee]

People (not singling anyone in particular out here) don't seem concerned enough (at all!) about the fact that deadline is super close. Posting "I don't much believe in either of the major wagons" without offering your own and trying to persuade others to join is very bad at this point.

Seriously! We need to do something here!

Who's saying that?  Everyone but 2 is on the major wagons.  Those two need to choose at this point.

People don't seem very committed, even if they have their vote on either wagon. I foresee a lot of "well it wasn't my preferred lynch, but not the worst thing ever either" explanations tomorrow (unless we manage to hit scum). I guess I'd like to see more conviction or "no, let's lynch this person because of xxx" rather than this "well I don't oppose either lynch" situation I'm reading here.

Let's lynch chairs because of my case.

I don't really see your case. Chairs is like that, I think. Regardless of alignment.

But I do like that you stand behind your read, for better or worse. While I can't say I have a town read on you, you've definitely played a fine protown day 1.

[faust]

I think scum is rather comfortable here. Do we have wagons on scum? Possible, but probably not. Sadly, I have no strong reads. Let's do random lynching.

Vote: Robz

[mcmcsalot]

I said I don't love the sudgy lynch, if that goes through it's not my preferred lynch. However if my vote is needed I would do it long before I lynch robz. The chairs lynch or(I honestly cannot remember my second preferred lynch, need to check but I said would vote either)

Faust bad Idea I think it is much more likely scum is there in the wagons we have and so scum is just refusing to lynch their partner. The game is slow enough they don't have to justify it, I see scum waiting till town gets jumpy and picks a town lynch.

[mcmcsalot]

I explained earlier why I thought ADK's blitz wagon was scummy, but the more I've thought about it the more I think it's null.  I think there's good enough reason to do it as town or scum, that it's hard to conclude anything from it.

I think mcmc is slightly scummy.  Faust pointed out an inconsistency he had, but also I think "wait for the IC to tell me what I'm doing is okay" is a really scummy approach, and he had said something to that effect earlier.  I understand why town would be tempted to say that, because you feel like you can trust the IC, but it makes taking that approach makes it very easy for scum to hide behind known town.



I'll probably be gone all day tomorrow (Tues) and Thursday as well but I will be here and post on Wednesday.

The case on Scott is because of this post. He backed off thinking Adk was scummy for starting a blitz wagon just around the time it was becoming an unpopular position and he goes on to call me scummy but doesn't vote. From a neutral perspective he looks a lot like he's just trying to be on the favorable side of everything and doesn't commit to anything. It's not a slam dunk but I agree with Faust I think it's pretty comparable to the case on chairs in terms of strength.

I would lynch either. Also Scott's alignment helps us a tad more.

Thanks.  Basically he's been hedgy.

The devil's advocate argument would be "town changes their mind, especially if people made good points."  I'm not too sold on that ADK unvote.

The second bit, about mcmc, is on the scummy side.  That's a fair point.

I think if ADK is scum, so is sp.  So the opposite works.  ADK is the better lynch, though, since we would get more info on sp after the lynch, plus all the quick wagon reactions, etc.

Here it is, I would love to lynch Scott if chairs isn't and option.

[faust]

scott? I can do scott. Vote: scott

[A Drowned Kernel]

I feel very strongly about sudgy. I realize that part of it is just a gut read, which isn't going to be helpful for convincing people, but seriously, people should be voting for him.

[azadin]

faust, why are you suddenly voting randomly? I realize our deadline is approaching but you don't seem to have a whole lot of rhyme or reason to it.

ADK, there are 2 major wagons at the moment, chairs and sudgy. If I recall, you started the sudgy wagon by stating he was being pretty quiet and hanging back? From what other people have said (and he said himself), that's the way he usually is. He hasn't struck me as overly cautious at all. Maybe a little reserved, but I wouldn't say cautious. I still don't feel great about a sudgy lynch.

Witherweaver, your analysis from a couple nights ago seems pretty good. However, let me attest to the following:

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

Everyone kind of let this one go after responding with "no don't lurk"... weird that this was the first time anyone brought up lurking.  Have you played forum mafia or those games before, Azadin? 

When has someone ever announced the intent to do something distinctly anti-town/scummy?

and

...
I believe EgorK would have come up with a better reason if he felt the need to make up a reason.  Azadin seems scummier for looking like he has all his bases covered.

I have never played forum mafia or anything similar before. I will say, however, that I am a very logical person regardless; I will always back up my thoughts with some sort of reasonable argument or claim, thereby "covering my bases." Why say something that doesn't mean anything? It's still striking me as odd that in forum mafia, it's a town read when someone is being rash or illogical. That seems to be what most people are saying when they claim this behavior is towny.

Eevee, you say chairs is always like this?

I'm still feeling pretty good about the chairs lynch. I'm not really seeing a case against sudgy or scott, here. If chairs flips scum, faust would be at the top of my scum list. He's been actively trying to get people off that wagon ever since it got close to lynch.

[faust]

faust, why are you suddenly voting randomly? I realize our deadline is approaching but you don't seem to have a whole lot of rhyme or reason to it.

Conventional scumhunting didn't work, so I'm trying something different.

[scott_pilgrim]

vote: chairs, this is L-1.

[faust]

vote: chairs, this is L-1.

What? Reasons? Thoughts? Give us more!

If I weren't already voting you...

[scott_pilgrim]

vote: chairs, this is L-1.

What? Reasons? Thoughts? Give us more!

If I weren't already voting you...

Lynching someone who's null isn't bad here though, and I would probably even vote sudgy to get a lynch through, but I prefer chairs (but not going to hammer now since we still have time).

I'm null on chairs, slight town read on sudgy, and null lynch is better than no lynch.

[scott_pilgrim]

And there's no time to make any other lynch happen I think.

[faust]

And there's no time to make any other lynch happen I think.

We shall see...

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.10:

chairs (6) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, azadin, EgorK, sudgy, scott_pilgrim   {L-1}
sudgy (4): A Drowned Kernel, Eevee, chairs, Robz888
Robz888 (1) : Witherweaver
scott_pilgrim (1): faust

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014. That's in about 14 hours.

[ashersky]

I will be around for deadline.

[EgorK]

So where's chairs?

[faust]

So where's chairs?

Just FYI, I will be V/LA for 'Murica's birthday as I will be spending the weekend (starting tonight) with my girlfriend's family, far from my sweet, sweet computer.

I will try to read from my phone but I make no guarantees.

Should be back sometime today, I guess.

Hey Egor, want to vote scott?

[faust]

I didn't even consider chairs' VLA until now. Makes me think he is a bad lynch even more. So easy to push someone who's not around to defend himself.

[Witherweaver]

I don't feel Chairs at all.. and I don't think anyone responded to my post explaining how Ash's case wasn't really appropriate.  I'm back and forth on Scott and null on Sudgy.

[A Drowned Kernel]

And there's no time to make any other lynch happen I think.

Not with that attitude!

[faust]

And there's no time to make any other lynch happen I think.

Not with that attitude!

Hey ADK! Come join the scott wagon! You wanted to lynch him all along...

[A Drowned Kernel]

I just realized that it's very unlikely that I'll be back before deadline. Scott is a better lynch than chairs but I'm feeling confident enough in Sudgy being a good lynch that I'm going to keep my vote there. I'll try to check in before deadline but I unfortunately can't make any promises.

[chairs]

Hi.  I'm back.  I'm okay with lynching scott if that's the new "not-a-chairs-lynch" lynch.

[EgorK]

So where's chairs?

Just FYI, I will be V/LA for 'Murica's birthday as I will be spending the weekend (starting tonight) with my girlfriend's family, far from my sweet, sweet computer.

I will try to read from my phone but I make no guarantees.

Should be back sometime today, I guess.

Hey Egor, want to vote scott?

I'll reread him, ok

[EgorK]

So where's chairs?

Just FYI, I will be V/LA for 'Murica's birthday as I will be spending the weekend (starting tonight) with my girlfriend's family, far from my sweet, sweet computer.

I will try to read from my phone but I make no guarantees.

Should be back sometime today, I guess.

Hey Egor, want to vote scott?

In a meantime can you remind me, what is the case on SP?

[faust]

So where's chairs?

Just FYI, I will be V/LA for 'Murica's birthday as I will be spending the weekend (starting tonight) with my girlfriend's family, far from my sweet, sweet computer.

I will try to read from my phone but I make no guarantees.

Should be back sometime today, I guess.

Hey Egor, want to vote scott?

In a meantime can you remind me, what is the case on SP?

He's super hedgy and super lurky.

[EgorK]

So where's chairs?

Just FYI, I will be V/LA for 'Murica's birthday as I will be spending the weekend (starting tonight) with my girlfriend's family, far from my sweet, sweet computer.

I will try to read from my phone but I make no guarantees.

Should be back sometime today, I guess.

Hey Egor, want to vote scott?

In a meantime can you remind me, what is the case on SP?

He's super hedgy and super lurky.

Well, basically anyone is superlurky. His "everyone on this wagon deserve scum points" to joining wagon is scummy through. I still prefer chairs atm, but would switch if needed

[Witherweaver]

faust, why are you suddenly voting randomly? I realize our deadline is approaching but you don't seem to have a whole lot of rhyme or reason to it.

ADK, there are 2 major wagons at the moment, chairs and sudgy. If I recall, you started the sudgy wagon by stating he was being pretty quiet and hanging back? From what other people have said (and he said himself), that's the way he usually is. He hasn't struck me as overly cautious at all. Maybe a little reserved, but I wouldn't say cautious. I still don't feel great about a sudgy lynch.

Witherweaver, your analysis from a couple nights ago seems pretty good. However, let me attest to the following:

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

Everyone kind of let this one go after responding with "no don't lurk"... weird that this was the first time anyone brought up lurking.  Have you played forum mafia or those games before, Azadin? 

When has someone ever announced the intent to do something distinctly anti-town/scummy?

and

...
I believe EgorK would have come up with a better reason if he felt the need to make up a reason.  Azadin seems scummier for looking like he has all his bases covered.

I have never played forum mafia or anything similar before. I will say, however, that I am a very logical person regardless; I will always back up my thoughts with some sort of reasonable argument or claim, thereby "covering my bases." Why say something that doesn't mean anything? It's still striking me as odd that in forum mafia, it's a town read when someone is being rash or illogical. That seems to be what most people are saying when they claim this behavior is towny.

Eevee, you say chairs is always like this?

I'm still feeling pretty good about the chairs lynch. I'm not really seeing a case against sudgy or scott, here. If chairs flips scum, faust would be at the top of my scum list. He's been actively trying to get people off that wagon ever since it got close to lynch.

Okay, so.. there's a counterintuitive thing here.  Being logical and thinking through things is good, but when you play scum you feel pressure to make sure that everything you say is pretty well backed up.  This is because you know it may come under scrutiny, and you have to be really careful you don't accidentally slip something that you could only know as scum.  So scum posts tend to be very carefully constructed.  On the other hand, when you're town you don't have to worry so much, so you don't quite think as fully about how everyone else is going to read and interpret what you say.  You still do (or at least I do) think about that as town, but not as fully.  Basically, you have the truth on your side so you don't have to worry as much.

It's not exactly that it's a town read to be rash or illogical.. it depends a bit on the players.  Most everyone knows everyone else.. so Xerxes, for instance, has a reputation for playing a bit of an eccentric town game.. McMc as well.  Teproc, on the other hand, is a very careful thought-out town player.  Robz, Chairs, Eevee have a reputation of just being gone for most of the game.  Ash has a reputation of being aggressive and pushing cases on people.

So it's not that the behavior in general is towny, it's more that people are seeing a certain player acting within their town meta. 

 

[chairs]

Well, it's not that I'm "gone" usually so much as I tend to do a lot more reading than posting, but I'm trying to break out of that particular mold.  But man, I'll never be more satisfied with a game than I was with Dynasty Warriors.

[sudgy]

Well, it's not that I'm "gone" usually so much as I tend to do a lot more reading than posting, but I'm trying to break out of that particular mold.  But man, I'll never be more satisfied with a game than I was with Dynasty Warriors.

Do you have any defense?  You're at L-1.

I could join the scott lynch, mainly because he has been total null.  I would still rather lynch chairs.

[scott_pilgrim]

His "everyone on this wagon deserve scum points" to joining wagon is scummy through.

It wasn't that there were people on the wagon, it was that they all just jumped on because of what I thought was a really weak case.

[EgorK]

Even deadline is unable to provide some action to this, oh

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Scott_Pilgrim

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.11:

chairs (6) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, azadin, EgorK, sudgy, scott_pilgrim   {L-1}
sudgy (4): A Drowned Kernel, Eevee, chairs, Robz888
scott_pilgrim (2): faust, Witherweaver

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014. That's in 2 hours.

[mcmcsalot]

Chairs has been at L-1 for a looong time and it's close to deadline.

He is either scum or scum is already on his wagon(which could be Scott the way he jumped on)

[Robz888]

I'm sorry. I put this off for days, just fell so behind. I am here to do whatever, but I don't anything. Not sure I really have time catch up before deadline, either. Sorry for letting you down guys. I promise to re-read during night.

[ashersky]

I'm sorry. I put this off for days, just fell so behind. I am here to do whatever, but I don't anything. Not sure I really have time catch up before deadline, either. Sorry for letting you down guys. I promise to re-read during night.

Read the post count, decide.

I started he wagon on chairs for the overcompensation case.

People think sp is hedgy.

No clue still what the sudgy case is.

[chairs]

I agree that the scott case is stronger than the sudgy case (which for me was "it's not chairs").

vote: s_p.

[Robz888]

Did chairs claim? Chairs, are you going to claim? It sure looks like it's you--I will hammer you to obtain a lynch.

[faust]

Lynch scott!

I'm off now, don't do anything stupid.

[azadin]

Alright, I'm on until deadline.

[Robz888]

If the scott case is "he is lurking," I hate to break it to you, but scott has lurked in 100% of this games.

[Robz888]

* this = his

[azadin]

WW - why are you against the chairs lynch, here? His case is based around his overcompensation and wishy-washy posting. You called my "overcompensating behavior" (covering all my bases) scummy, so why not support the chairs case for the same reason? You seem to be oddly deflecting your attention from him, making me think you're pretty scummy yourself. I guess we'll see if chairs is lynched and what he flips.

PPE: 2

[sudgy]

I want to do stuff, but I don't want to leave because I want to see what happens...

[Witherweaver]

WW - why are you against the chairs lynch, here? His case is based around his overcompensation and wishy-washy posting. You called my "overcompensating behavior" (covering all my bases) scummy, so why not support the chairs case for the same reason? You seem to be oddly deflecting your attention from him, making me think you're pretty scummy yourself. I guess we'll see if chairs is lynched and what he flips.

PPE: 2

Because he was never overcompensating.. It seems like Ash kind of made that up.  And where was Chairs wishy-washy?

[Robz888]

I want to do stuff, but I don't want to leave because I want to see what happens...

Let's try this: Why should I move my vote off you?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.12:

chairs (6) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, azadin, EgorK, sudgy, scott_pilgrim   {L-1}
sudgy (3): A Drowned Kernel, Eevee, Robz888
scott_pilgrim (3): faust, Witherweaver, chairs

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014. That's in one hour.

[azadin]

I will probably lurk for at least a little bit, mostly because I really have no idea what sorts of things to say or do.

Though I've gone through some of the wiki that ADK posted to me earlier (Thanks, by the way!) and in the first post of the thread, so hopefully it won't take long for me to start catching on to some scummy tells!

In the meantime, I also jumped on the ADK wagon as more of a joke, but will Unvote for now until I can get a better feel for what's going on.

vote: azadin

No lurking.  If you're Town, then just posting "So here's what I think of this" even if it's "Well, I thought this was interesting and it makes me feel like X is more scummy/less scummy/posting too little/possibly an alien" is great.  The more that you post about what you're reading and what you think of what you read, the more interactions we get from you, the more we can in turn state what we think about your opinions, creating interactions of our own that you can then read into - which is how you get to say "Aha! Based on all these people talking, and what they're talking about (and ignoring), I can say that I think this one is the Mafioso plaguing our fair city!"... and eventually we lynch one, and find out if we were right, and that gives us more data to go through and refine our opinions of everyone else based on the interactions that occurred.

In other words, not talking is giving Mafia the excuse to not talk, and if they can get away with not talking, their Days are easier.

(This is a game. We are supposed to be having fun.  I am taking Mafia less serious-face-modo-mojo-jojo so anticipate that I will, occasionally, crack a joke.)

Also to take a page from Robz's book, vote: ww for using smiley.

Here. The wishy-washiness comes after this when he tries to weave jokes in and out of serious posting.

And yes, he was VLA'd for the holiday weekend, but since he's been back, he's contributed *nothing* but votes for people simply because they "aren't him." I guess he said he agreed with the scott_pilgrim case.

Let's try something else. Chairs: why shouldn't we lynch you?

[sudgy]

I want to do stuff, but I don't want to leave because I want to see what happens...

Let's try this: Why should I move my vote off you?

Because my case is "sudgy is playing how he always does.  Let's lynch him!"

[Witherweaver]

That's not very compelling, Azadin.  Chair making jokes is, as far as I can tell, a Chairs quality, not a scum or town quality.  Ash's argument that nervous joking could be indicative of scum is fine, but I see no nervous joking there. 

[Eevee]

I want to do stuff, but I don't want to leave because I want to see what happens...

Let's try this: Why should I move my vote off you?

Because my case is "sudgy is playing how he always does.  Let's lynch him!"

It's not, and you or ash repeating that over and over again isn't going to make it so.

[Eevee]

I'm on until the deadline as well.

[azadin]

That's not very compelling, Azadin.  Chair making jokes is, as far as I can tell, a Chairs quality, not a scum or town quality.  Ash's argument that nervous joking could be indicative of scum is fine, but I see no nervous joking there.

That's fair, and I am in the unfortunate position of having no forum meta knowledge whatsoever to go off of, so I'm relying more on individual things I see and gut reads. Unless I have a compelling reason to switch my vote, I'm staying where I'm at.

[azadin]

I'm on until the deadline as well.

Woot! Hey Eevee!

[EgorK]

I'm here and ready to hammer SP if we'd get to that. Would prefer chairs through

[Robz888]

Well, I prefer sudgy to chairs still, but I'm not sure there's time or possibility of any lynch but chairs, is there?

[Robz888]

Don't know if I care between scotty and chairs.

[Robz888]

Wish we had time for claims...

[chairs]

Did chairs claim? Chairs, are you going to claim? It sure looks like it's you--I will hammer you to obtain a lynch.

Not claiming.  Would rather see scott hammered than me, but rather me than no lynch, so if you can hold off until there's no chance anybody else is getting lynched go ahead and do it.

[sudgy]

Did chairs claim? Chairs, are you going to claim? It sure looks like it's you--I will hammer you to obtain a lynch.

Not claiming.  Would rather see scott hammered than me, but rather me than no lynch, so if you can hold off until there's no chance anybody else is getting lynched go ahead and do it.

We have half an hour.  I don't know if we have time.  I (hopefully) will be around to claim if the need comes, but I hope the need doesn't come.

[Robz888]

Did chairs claim? Chairs, are you going to claim? It sure looks like it's you--I will hammer you to obtain a lynch.

Not claiming.  Would rather see scott hammered than me, but rather me than no lynch, so if you can hold off until there's no chance anybody else is getting lynched go ahead and do it.

Scott isn't even in a position to be hammered, there are like three votes on him.

And I really think all this ideological non-claiming is bad. We've had a lot of this lately and I neither like it nor think it helps town. More people should claim at L-1, and you should certainly claim if you want to have a prayer of surviving here.

[Witherweaver]

I'm off now.  I don't see any reason to go to Sudgy or Chairs and am okay with Scott.  In fact I'm even wanting Chairs less after his last comment.. just doesn't seem like something scum would say.

[ashersky]

Did chairs claim? Chairs, are you going to claim? It sure looks like it's you--I will hammer you to obtain a lynch.

Chairs did not claim.  The sudgy lynch is falling apart (which is fine, given I still don't know why it was an option).

I think he should be given the opportunity to decide to claim or not.  He's on now, I think.

[Witherweaver]

He'd be in a position to be hammered if people started voting for him.

[scott_pilgrim]

He'd be in a position to be hammered if people started voting for him.

Except if people switch off chairs to sudgy, we may not be able to lynch either.  I'm willing to vote sudgy if I have to, but I prefer chairs and I feel like we're a lot more likely to get a lynch through if I stay there (and I'm guessing that's how most people voting chairs feel).

[ashersky]

Did chairs claim? Chairs, are you going to claim? It sure looks like it's you--I will hammer you to obtain a lynch.

Not claiming.  Would rather see scott hammered than me, but rather me than no lynch, so if you can hold off until there's no chance anybody else is getting lynched go ahead and do it.

This is a VT claim.

[chairs]

I don't have any ideological argument against claiming.  It's just not particularly beneficial to Town, since I am a VT.

[chairs]

...aaand ashersky calls it.

[Robz888]

Did chairs claim? Chairs, are you going to claim? It sure looks like it's you--I will hammer you to obtain a lynch.

Not claiming.  Would rather see scott hammered than me, but rather me than no lynch, so if you can hold off until there's no chance anybody else is getting lynched go ahead and do it.

This is a VT claim.

No it's not.

PPE, okay, it was! I believe him, he goes down for sure as mafia unless he fakeclaims PR

[Eevee]

I'm inclined to believe the claim as well. Sudgy or SP?

[azadin]

Hmm....do we have enough time to get a lynch on someone else? I'd be ok with the SP lynch, I still don't like the sudgy lynch.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.13:

chairs (6) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, azadin, EgorK, sudgy, scott_pilgrim   {L-1}
sudgy (3): A Drowned Kernel, Eevee, Robz888
scott_pilgrim (3): faust, Witherweaver, chairs

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014. That's in fifteen minutes.

[Robz888]

I prefer sudgy, will absolutely vote either to avoid chairs lynch.

[Eevee]

Agree with Robz.

[azadin]

If I have to vote sudgy to get a lynch, I will. Better than no lynch.

[Robz888]

I really have to get going, where should I leave my vote? Also... I mean, I really, really believe chairs' claim, to the extent where I prefer No Lynch to chairs lynch. Is that crazy? No way he says VT there as scum, when anything else buys him another day for sure.

[Robz888]

Well, unless he'd know we would react like this... maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

[azadin]

Vote: scott_pilgrim

[Robz888]

Okay, really really have to go, leaving my vote on sudgy, hope other people show up soon?

PPE, no!

[sudgy]

I don't know if we have time to lynch me or scott.

I really have to get going, where should I leave my vote? Also... I mean, I really, really believe chairs' claim, to the extent where I prefer No Lynch to chairs lynch. Is that crazy? No way he says VT there as scum, when anything else buys him another day for sure.

Remember that you claimed VT as scum to get people to do what you're doing now...  Also, I think VT claims can easily be scum.

[scott_pilgrim]

Agree with sudgy, VT claim could be WIFOM

[Robz888]

I don't know if we have time to lynch me or scott.

I really have to get going, where should I leave my vote? Also... I mean, I really, really believe chairs' claim, to the extent where I prefer No Lynch to chairs lynch. Is that crazy? No way he says VT there as scum, when anything else buys him another day for sure.

Remember that you claimed VT as scum to get people to do what you're doing now...  Also, I think VT claims can easily be scum.

When? No, I typically claim PRs. I did in my most recent scum game, it worked, I survived all game.

[scott_pilgrim]

azadin, I think we will end the day with a no lynch if you don't move your vote back to chairs

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.14:

chairs (5) : ashersky, mcmcsalot, EgorK, sudgy, scott_pilgrim 
scott_pilgrim (4): faust, Witherweaver, chairs, azadin
sudgy (3): A Drowned Kernel, Eevee, Robz888

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 07:00 p.m. on July 7, 2014. That's in ten minutes.

[sudgy]

I don't know if we have time to lynch me or scott.

I really have to get going, where should I leave my vote? Also... I mean, I really, really believe chairs' claim, to the extent where I prefer No Lynch to chairs lynch. Is that crazy? No way he says VT there as scum, when anything else buys him another day for sure.

Remember that you claimed VT as scum to get people to do what you're doing now...  Also, I think VT claims can easily be scum.

When? No, I typically claim PRs. I did in my most recent scum game, it worked, I survived all game.

I can't remember the exact game, but your two partners were dead, you were almost lynched, claimed VT, we were still going to lynch you, then you claimed cop, then we lynched you, then we won.

[Eevee]

Man I think chairs is town.

[Robz888]

Ash is around, isn't he?I think we can lynch scotty if me, Eevee, and him do that.

[azadin]

azadin, I think we will end the day with a no lynch if you don't move your vote back to chairs

Even if I do, who would hammer him? I actually believe his claim...his behavior here at the end has been extremely towny.

[EgorK]

vote: sp. I do not see sudgy case

[sudgy]

I can move to scott if need be, but I don't know if it's possible.

[Eevee]

vote: scott

[scott_pilgrim]

I'm the Universal Back-up

[Robz888]

I don't know if we have time to lynch me or scott.

I really have to get going, where should I leave my vote? Also... I mean, I really, really believe chairs' claim, to the extent where I prefer No Lynch to chairs lynch. Is that crazy? No way he says VT there as scum, when anything else buys him another day for sure.

Remember that you claimed VT as scum to get people to do what you're doing now...  Also, I think VT claims can easily be scum.

When? No, I typically claim PRs. I did in my most recent scum game, it worked, I survived all game.

I can't remember the exact game, but your two partners were dead, you were almost lynched, claimed VT, we were still going to lynch you, then you claimed cop, then we lynched you, then we won.

I know the game you mean... That was slightly different... I was completely dead either way, the setup was close to solved so claiming wouldn't have worked. In chairs position in this game, I would have claimed PR as scum.

[scott_pilgrim]

Scum please counterclaim

[scott_pilgrim]

So uh, lynch someone else?

[ashersky]

vote: sudgy

I don't want to, but man, unless UB is counterclaimed, he's verified, and we need a lynch today.

[azadin]

Vote: sudgy agree with ash

[Robz888]

That is... almost certainly a correct claim, right? Ash this is your setup... the only scenario where this could be a safe scum claim is if the real UB got paired with a loan Mason NIght 0, if I remember correctly, yeah?

[scott_pilgrim]

vote: sudgy

[ashersky]

I'm the Universal Back-up

This is the absolutely never fakeclaimed role in this setup.  It's auto-death and the real UB is a happy trade off.

I'd lynch VT chairs over him.

[ashersky]

That is... almost certainly a correct claim, right? Ash this is your setup... the only scenario where this could be a safe scum claim is if the real UB got paired with a loan Mason NIght 0, if I remember correctly, yeah?

Right, but scum doesn't know there are masons.  And the IC existing makes masons less likely.

[sudgy]

To keep this from happening too late, I have a 1-shot PR.  I am probably using it tonight and you can lynch me tomorrow if you want.  Do not lynch me today.

That said, chairs is probably the best at this point as a claimed VT.

[ashersky]

To keep this from happening too late, I have a 1-shot PR.  I am probably using it tonight and you can lynch me tomorrow if you want.  Do not lynch me today.

That said, chairs is probably the best at this point as a claimed VT.

Well crap.  unvote

[ashersky]

We have what, 3 hours.  Let's not rush here.

[Eevee]

Woah.

[scott_pilgrim]

vote: chairs

[Eevee]

We have what, 3 hours.  Let's not rush here.

We have like 5 minutes??

[azadin]

Uh....

[Robz888]

Okay, well sudgy's could be a fake claim, though. Idk.

[azadin]

Is sudgy fake claiming to get out of a lynch today?

[Eevee]

I think sudgy as well, but it's iffy.

[sudgy]

And to the mafia, I might not use it tonight because I know you'll probably roleblock me, the only claimed PR.

[azadin]

Yeah, the frantic voting here at the end has me flustered but I think sudgy may be fake claiming.

[Robz888]

Eevee, what do you want us to do.

[ashersky]

Here's the thing -- scum has some options.

If we leave sudgy alive and he's being honest, he may die tonight.  Then UB gets the role, which may or may not matter, and then scum can kill UB.  If sudgy uses his role, UB gets a depleted role.

If a doctor exists, there's plenty of wifom survival possibility.

The chances we ran up wagons on 3 town aren't crazy bad, given how slow this game started.  Man, this is tough.

Obviously the "best" mislynch for town is a VT.

We've learned nothing as far as rolls go, btw.  Don't even try to figure it out yet.  (Unless sudgy is a vig or roleblocker).

[scott_pilgrim]

Is sudgy fake claiming to get out of a lynch today?

Maybe, but at least he claimed it's 1-shot and we can lynch him tomorrow

PPE 3

[ashersky]

vote: sudgy  This is best, I think.

[sudgy]

Yeah, the frantic voting here at the end has me flustered but I think sudgy may be fake claiming.

Never lynch a claimed one-shot PR.  Lynch them the next day if you think they're fake claiming.

Now, everybody needs to vote chairs.

[ashersky]

If someone lied, it's sudgy.

Depending on his shot, it's not horrible to lose it.

Doc should protect UB or IC, wifom the scum.

[EgorK]

vote: sudgy

[Eevee]

I really think chairs is town.

[Eevee]

If someone lied, it's sudgy.

Depending on his shot, it's not horrible to lose it.

Doc should protect UB or IC, wifom the scum.

I agree.

[ashersky]

Yeah, the frantic voting here at the end has me flustered but I think sudgy may be fake claiming.

Never lynch a claimed one-shot PR.  Lynch them the next day if you think they're fake claiming.

Now, everybody needs to vote chairs.

I don't agree with that philosophy.

[scott_pilgrim]

vote: sudgy

[sudgy]

Congratulations on lynching your 1-shot cop.

[Teproc]

THREAD LOCKED

[Teproc]

Final Vote Count

sudgy (5): A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, azadin, ashersky, EgorK
scott_pilgrim (4): faust, Witherweaver, chairs, Eevee
chairs (3) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, scott_pilgrim

With 12 alive, it would have taken 7 to lynch.

No one is lynched. Night will last 48 hours, everyone is required to confirm by PM or by posting in their QT

[Teproc]

Reminder : all players are required to check in via PM or by posting in their QT. Failing to do so by 7:00 pm forum time tomorrow may start the process of finding a replacement for you as day2 cannot start until all players have checked in.

[Teproc]

I still haven't received confirmations from all players. If we get to the start of the day and someone hasn't confirmed, I will start looking for a replacement.

[Teproc]

Still missing a confirmation. Looking for a replacement right now. Sorry for the delay everyone.

[Teproc]

The next morning, when he woke up up, Mike looked for Chris to reassure him everything would be okay... and found him strangled with his karate belt... Mike was overcome with emotion, and suddenly it all came back to him : all these times he drove Chris to his only purpose in life : karate competitions and time away from this messed-up family. Wait a minute, he wasn't there either at the meeting Chris missed, so he was innocent ! At least Chris' death wasn't for nothing he explained everyone, who were very disturbed by this but believed him anyway.

Eevee (Chris Brody, the Innocent Child) has been killed in the night.

scott_pilgrim (Mike Faber, the Universal Back-Up) is now an Innocent Child.

[Teproc]

Day 2 starts now !

No replacement actually. Just a mod screw up.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.0


Not Voting (11): A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, azadin, ashersky, EgorK, faust, Witherweaver, chairs, scott_pilgrim, mcmcsalot, sudgy

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 07:00 PM on July 16:00

[ashersky]

I'd say sudgy is also an IC.  Did you use your shot sudgy?

[ashersky]

We're in a good POE spot:

A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, azadin, ashersky, EgorK, faust, Witherweaver, chairs, scott_pilgrim, mcmcsalot, sudgy


From my perspective, 3 scum in Robz, aza, Egor, Faust, WW, mcmc.  That's a 50% chance for all of us not in green and not scum.

Chairs could be lying about being a VT, but sudgy's post after he thought he was lynched was pretty believable.

Remember, scum has a Godfather, so they could risk not killing the claimed cop, who has one shot.

I mean, is he scum that lied and that's why he's alive?  That's the scum wifom argument, right?  I don't know, as soon as he thought he was lynched and he was just disgusted with town lynching their cop, it was very sincere to me.

[azadin]

What about ADK?

[ashersky]

What about ADK?

I just missed him in the list. 

So 3/7 chance for all town.

We now know for sure he didn't plan the quicklynch thing with his partner.  I think that makes it less likely it was a scum plan.  Doesn't mean scum didn't do it as an RVS joke.  But not a scum plan.

[Witherweaver]

Wait, how does universal backup work?

[ashersky]

Wait, how does universal backup work?

Inherits the first Town Power Role that dies.

[ashersky]

sudgy (5): A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, azadin, ashersky, EgorK
scott_pilgrim (4): faust, Witherweaver, chairs, Eevee
chairs (3) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, scott_pilgrim

This is the final vote count.  Not sure there's much to take away from it.

[Witherweaver]

Oh, I see your point about Sudgy.  I wasn't around for any of the claiming.  It does sound genuine.

If the scum wanted to keep someone alive to mislynch, killing Sudgy would make more sense, I think.  Then SP inherits a role, and I'm assuming its not announced like IC was.  So could push for Scott lynch.

This kill was just.. Changing who the IC is.

Well, unless Sudgy doesn't count as a power role if he has no shots left

[Witherweaver]

Well, Sudgy alive means Ash is town or Ash is Godfather.  Scum Ash would expect to get investigated (at least, I would investigate Ash as a cop), so wouldn't risk it.

[Witherweaver]

Or Sudgy himself is scum.

[scott_pilgrim]

The UB is effectively an IC anyway, because scum is not going to counterclaim a role that exactly one townie has.  (They could if they knew the UB had been converted to a mason, but since we knew we rolled at least 2 M's since we had a real IC, we knew that a real UB exists so scum wouldn't counterclaim it.)  So what I'm saying is, we should have expected them not to kill sudgy.

Also, we know they have a Roleblocker, so there's a good chance they roleblocked sudgy.

I think sudgy's post at the end of D1 is really towny.

Well, Sudgy alive means Ash is town or Ash is Godfather.  Scum Ash would expect to get investigated (at least, I would investigate Ash as a cop), so wouldn't risk it.

Sudgy hasn't claimed results yet (or he might have gotten roleblocked or not used his shot last night for WIFOM), so I don't think we have anything there yet?

[Robz888]

I don't follow this:

I'd say sudgy is also an IC.  Did you use your shot sudgy?

Or this:

Well, Sudgy alive means Ash is town or Ash is Godfather.  Scum Ash would expect to get investigated (at least, I would investigate Ash as a cop), so wouldn't risk it.

Why... these things?

[Robz888]

Oh, ash did explain, missed this.

Remember, scum has a Godfather, so they could risk not killing the claimed cop, who has one shot.

I mean, is he scum that lied and that's why he's alive?  That's the scum wifom argument, right?  I don't know, as soon as he thought he was lynched and he was just disgusted with town lynching their cop, it was very sincere to me.

Scum might have Godfather. Anyway, it says very little to me that sudgy is still alive. If sudgy is town, well, Eevee was probably just plain a better kill,and if sudgy is scum, of course he didn't die. We should hear sudgy's result, though.

[Robz888]

Nevermind, all PR distributions result in Godfather.

[Witherweaver]

The UB is effectively an IC anyway, because scum is not going to counterclaim a role that exactly one townie has.  (They could if they knew the UB had been converted to a mason, but since we knew we rolled at least 2 M's since we had a real IC, we knew that a real UB exists so scum wouldn't counterclaim it.)  So what I'm saying is, we should have expected them not to kill sudgy.

Oh yeah, that's true.

Also, we know they have a Roleblocker, so there's a good chance they roleblocked sudgy.

I think sudgy's post at the end of D1 is really towny.

Well, Sudgy alive means Ash is town or Ash is Godfather.  Scum Ash would expect to get investigated (at least, I would investigate Ash as a cop), so wouldn't risk it.

Sudgy hasn't claimed results yet (or he might have gotten roleblocked or not used his shot last night for WIFOM), so I don't think we have anything there yet?

I didn't think about Roleblocker. 

[Witherweaver]

Oh, ash did explain, missed this.

Remember, scum has a Godfather, so they could risk not killing the claimed cop, who has one shot.

I mean, is he scum that lied and that's why he's alive?  That's the scum wifom argument, right?  I don't know, as soon as he thought he was lynched and he was just disgusted with town lynching their cop, it was very sincere to me.

Scum might have Godfather. Anyway, it says very little to me that sudgy is still alive. If sudgy is town, well, Eevee was probably just plain a better kill,and if sudgy is scum, of course he didn't die. We should hear sudgy's result, though.

Godfather is part of the default setup.

[Witherweaver]

I don't follow this:

I'd say sudgy is also an IC.  Did you use your shot sudgy?

Or this:

Well, Sudgy alive means Ash is town or Ash is Godfather.  Scum Ash would expect to get investigated (at least, I would investigate Ash as a cop), so wouldn't risk it.

Why... these things?

My thought was.. Sudgy would use his shot tonight.. he was almost lynched yesterday, and he might be night killed anyway.. if he survives, he might get lynched today, and if not then shot tonight.  Ash is the obvious target.  So a scum!Ash would be worried, unless he was the Godfather.  So, town or Godfather.

Though, I forgot they could just Roleblock him.

[ashersky]

Given SP was basically conf!town with his claim, killing Eevee and trading him for SP was no big deal.  I'm more surprised they didn't fear doctor protection there.

The roleblocker could have blocked sudgy, for sure.  We'll know when sudgy says he got "no result" if he investigated.  If he says he saved his shot, nullish points.  Good town reasons not to investigate, as if he died the shot goes to SP.

If you would all read my setup rules, you'd know that empty shot roles are still inherited by the UB.

[ashersky]

As for "sudgy could be scum," I mean sure, but I'd be very surprised if lying scum!sudgy posts that digusted sounding post after he thought he was lynched.  He was much more likely to not post, or try misdirection, or anything but that.

I'm fairly confident based on meta and gut that sudgy's not lying.

[Witherweaver]

Sorry I forgot to check Footnote 228ce, Category III, Class 22A-Z, Section 5 of the setup rules.

[Witherweaver]

Ohhh.. Scott's vote didn't even go through.  I guess because it was right after 7:00? 

[ashersky]

Sorry I forgot to check Footnote 228ce, Category III, Class 22A-Z, Section 5 of the setup rules.

That's a bit harsh.  I tried really hard to make the ruleset easy to follow and apply.

[Robz888]

As for "sudgy could be scum," I mean sure, but I'd be very surprised if lying scum!sudgy posts that digusted sounding post after he thought he was lynched.  He was much more likely to not post, or try misdirection, or anything but that.

I'm surprised you think this. Scum has every reason to go to the grave lying through his teeth in this tense scenario where the lynch might not work out--and it didn't!--creating insta-cred.

[ashersky]

As for "sudgy could be scum," I mean sure, but I'd be very surprised if lying scum!sudgy posts that digusted sounding post after he thought he was lynched.  He was much more likely to not post, or try misdirection, or anything but that.

I'm surprised you think this. Scum has every reason to go to the grave lying through his teeth in this tense scenario where the lynch might not work out--and it didn't!--creating insta-cred.

I don't think scum!sudgy thinks to do that, though, is what I mean.  I think his reaction was 100% exactly his town!1-shot-cop!sudgy reaction.  He could have imitated it, but I doubt it.

I think if he's scum fakeclaiming, he says 1-Shot Cop way earlier than AFTER his lynch.

[Robz888]

As for "sudgy could be scum," I mean sure, but I'd be very surprised if lying scum!sudgy posts that digusted sounding post after he thought he was lynched.  He was much more likely to not post, or try misdirection, or anything but that.

I'm surprised you think this. Scum has every reason to go to the grave lying through his teeth in this tense scenario where the lynch might not work out--and it didn't!--creating insta-cred.

I don't think scum!sudgy thinks to do that, though, is what I mean.  I think his reaction was 100% exactly his town!1-shot-cop!sudgy reaction.  He could have imitated it, but I doubt it.

I think if he's scum fakeclaiming, he says 1-Shot Cop way earlier than AFTER his lynch.

On the part I bolded, well, he did already say it. That was not the first time he told us that. Also, it wasn't after his lynch, he wasn't lynched.

[ashersky]

To keep this from happening too late, I have a 1-shot PR.  I am probably using it tonight and you can lynch me tomorrow if you want.  Do not lynch me today.

That said, chairs is probably the best at this point as a claimed VT.

Here's his claim.  He does not claim 1-Shot Cop outright.

Congratulations on lynching your 1-shot cop.

Here's the post right after we all thought he was lynched, but in fact wasn't.  SP's vote was late, and the IC never switched his vote even though he agreed we should lynch sudgy.

[ashersky]

If you are scum fakeclaiming, I don't see the utility in the way sudgy did it.

I also see zero utility in his final post if he's scum.  There's no wifom there if he's actually lynched.  And he thought he was lynched.  It was frantic, unclear.  I thought he was lynched until I recounted the votes, and then the vote count was there.

[Robz888]

If you are scum fakeclaiming, I don't see the utility in the way sudgy did it.

I also see zero utility in his final post if he's scum.  There's no wifom there if he's actually lynched.  And he thought he was lynched.  It was frantic, unclear.  I thought he was lynched until I recounted the votes, and then the vote count was there.

I guess I'm seeing this differently. I was under no illusion that he was actually lynched. There weren't enough votes and we were out of time.

[EgorK]

If you are scum fakeclaiming, I don't see the utility in the way sudgy did it.

I also see zero utility in his final post if he's scum.  There's no wifom there if he's actually lynched.  And he thought he was lynched.  It was frantic, unclear.  I thought he was lynched until I recounted the votes, and then the vote count was there.

Maybe he can count up to 7?

[Robz888]

To keep this from happening too late, I have a 1-shot PR.  I am probably using it tonight and you can lynch me tomorrow if you want.  Do not lynch me today.

That said, chairs is probably the best at this point as a claimed VT.

Here's his claim.  He does not claim 1-Shot Cop outright.

Ohhhh. I misremembered that.

[scott_pilgrim]

He posted that 15 seconds after my vote, I mean that's thinking really fast if he's scum.

[EgorK]

And yes, sudgy is most likely town, there is no doubt about it. He just is not 100% town the way SP would be would Eevee survive this night

[Robz888]

That changes things.

If he's town and DOESN'T think he's lynched... well obviously he wouldn't give away more details of his PR, so it's not that.

If he's town and DOES think he's lynched... then yes, his post makes sense as lynched PR frustration.

If he's scum and DOESN'T think he's lynched... why complicate his lie unnecessarily? So he doesn't do that (most likely).

If he's scum and DOES think he's lynched... there is no point in that post.

So ash is absolutely correct, most likely scenario is he was town who thought he was lynched.

[faust]

I'd say sudgy is also an IC.  Did you use your shot sudgy?
[/quote

How is sudgy an IC?

[faust]

We're in a good POE spot:

A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, azadin, ashersky, EgorK, faust, Witherweaver, chairs, scott_pilgrim, mcmcsalot, sudgy


From my perspective, 3 scum in Robz, aza, Egor, Faust, WW, mcmc.  That's a 50% chance for all of us not in green and not scum.

Chairs could be lying about being a VT, but sudgy's post after he thought he was lynched was pretty believable.

Remember, scum has a Godfather, so they could risk not killing the claimed cop, who has one shot.

I mean, is he scum that lied and that's why he's alive?  That's the scum wifom argument, right?  I don't know, as soon as he thought he was lynched and he was just disgusted with town lynching their cop, it was very sincere to me.

Ah, right, sudgy's post at the end of the day seemed really genuine. Note also that scum has a Roleblocker, so they don't need sudgy dead.

[faust]

Given SP was basically conf!town with his claim, killing Eevee and trading him for SP was no big deal.  I'm more surprised they didn't fear doctor protection there.

The roleblocker could have blocked sudgy, for sure.  We'll know when sudgy says he got "no result" if he investigated.  If he says he saved his shot, nullish points.  Good town reasons not to investigate, as if he died the shot goes to SP.

If you would all read my setup rules, you'd know that empty shot roles are still inherited by the UB.

Scum also has a Strongman kill. So no need to fear Doc protection.

[faust]

I think Robz' confusion about sudgy is townie. Really, scum would remember that sudgy claim much better than town, because it affected their night actions. Same thing makes WW a bit more townie. It could be faked of course.

[faust]

I'd say sudgy is also an IC.  Did you use your shot sudgy?

I'm coming back to this post. It's scummy. Why did you ask that, ashersky?

Vote: ashersky

[ashersky]

I'd say sudgy is also an IC.  Did you use your shot sudgy?

I'm coming back to this post. It's scummy. Why did you ask that, ashersky?

Vote: ashersky

Because I want an IC or guilty result.

[faust]

I'd say sudgy is also an IC.  Did you use your shot sudgy?

I'm coming back to this post. It's scummy. Why did you ask that, ashersky?

Vote: ashersky

Because I want an IC or guilty result.

And I thought it was because you wanted to know whether or not you still need to roleblock sudgy.

[faust]

Really, I think ash is experienced enough to ask "Do you have a result" instead of "Did you use your shot" if he was town.

[ashersky]

Really, I think ash is experienced enough to ask "Do you have a result" instead of "Did you use your shot" if he was town.

So this is a scumslip argument?  Awesome.

[ashersky]

I'd say sudgy is also an IC.  Did you use your shot sudgy?

I'm coming back to this post. It's scummy. Why did you ask that, ashersky?

I think it's funny your hyper-focused here.  Afraid of what we will find if we focus on D1?

[Witherweaver]

Look at the times.  I doubt Sudgy would know that Scott's vote wouldn't count.  Faking there is very unlikely.

[Witherweaver]

Sorry I forgot to check Footnote 228ce, Category III, Class 22A-Z, Section 5 of the setup rules.

That's a bit harsh.  I tried really hard to make the ruleset easy to follow and apply.

Sorry I was only being silly and joking.  I was just saying I missed it, but yeah it's there and easy to find.

[mcmcsalot]

As for "sudgy could be scum," I mean sure, but I'd be very surprised if lying scum!sudgy posts that digusted sounding post after he thought he was lynched.  He was much more likely to not post, or try misdirection, or anything but that.

I'm fairly confident based on meta and gut that sudgy's not lying.

I agree with this 100% I actually thought sudgy was lynched, it is easy enough to assume sudgy thought he was lynched and that was town sudgy all the way.

[mcmcsalot]

Wait ww I'm really confused...

Do you think ash is scummy for explaining to us all that sudgy is town and asking him if he used his shot?

Do you believe that sudgy is town?

I mean we really do need to know if sudgy got a result. But you are saying we only want to know result, or no result(blocked shot or no shot)

I guess ash should have worded it as we need sudgies result. But in all honesty part of me
Feels like it's up to sudgy to divulge his info and chose what to tell us and part of me feels like ash was just getting to the point of we need to hear from sudgy.

I do why you would consider ash trying to nonchalantly get sudgy to divulge whether or not he still has a shot. But again hopefully sudgy used his shot as A we were going to lynch him and B if he's not dead he could die and get no result the next day. He absolutely should have used his shot.

So it doesn't matter what ash asked and your vote is a little much/scummy.

[Witherweaver]

Do you mean Faust?

[EgorK]

Look at the times.  I doubt Sudgy would know that Scott's vote wouldn't count.  Faking there is very unlikely.

But he would not be lynched even with SP vote. Still sudgy is most likely town, no doubt here

[Witherweaver]

Look at the times.  I doubt Sudgy would know that Scott's vote wouldn't count.  Faking there is very unlikely.

But he would not be lynched even with SP vote. Still sudgy is most likely town, no doubt here

Oh you're right, I thought SP made 7. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

Here briefly. Sudgy's pretty obviously town. He also probably got Roleblocked. I'd say that he should tell us whether he got a result, but not whether he used his shot. Just "I got a result on X" or "I got no result" and leave it at that. Makes things simple.

[chairs]

We're in a good POE spot:

A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, azadin, ashersky, EgorK, faust, Witherweaver, chairs, scott_pilgrim, mcmcsalot, sudgy


From my perspective, 3 scum in Robz, aza, Egor, Faust, WW, mcmc.  That's a 50% chance for all of us not in green and not scum.

Chairs could be lying about being a VT, but sudgy's post after he thought he was lynched was pretty believable.

Remember, scum has a Godfather, so they could risk not killing the claimed cop, who has one shot.

I mean, is he scum that lied and that's why he's alive?  That's the scum wifom argument, right?  I don't know, as soon as he thought he was lynched and he was just disgusted with town lynching their cop, it was very sincere to me.

I think this is a good list.  I mean, obviously I know I'm town, and scott is literally IC, and I agree that Sudgy's got to be treated as virtually an IC for his D1 post.

This doesn't mean I think you're Town, as I think this is a null tell for you (just saying).

[Robz888]

Hey sudgy, we need ya pal.

[sudgy]

Hey sudgy, we need ya pal.

I finally just woke up!

Anyway, WIFOM is amazing (like telling scum you might not use your shot).  I investigated ash, and he turned up town.  Remember that he could be the Godfather, but he's most likely town.

[Robz888]

Why did you investigate ash?

[sudgy]

Why did you investigate ash?

Because he's ash.

[sudgy]

As I mentioned in the V/LA thread, I'm gone from Monday through Friday.  I hope that will be fine.

[ashersky]

Why did you investigate ash?

The bigger question is we know scum has a Roleblocker...we know scum knew sudgy wasn't lying...why wasn't he blocked?

[Robz888]

Why did you investigate ash?

The bigger question is we know scum has a Roleblocker...we know scum knew sudgy wasn't lying...why wasn't he blocked?

Yeah. I can't think of a great reason. Can you?

[chairs]

It only makes sense if they thought that he would hold off on using his shot for a later Night.

[chairs]

...Actually, it -also- makes sense in one scenario where they expected sudgy to use his shot: ashersky is Godfather (or they want us to think he is).

Ash is the obvious choice, in my mind, to investigate.  He's one of the best people in our group at saying remarkably towny things as scum, and being scummy as town, so practically everything he does is a null tell.  This makes using a Cop on him a great choice.

[ashersky]

It only makes sense if they thought that he would hold off on using his shot for a later Night.

Or he's scum.  Or Wifom so we would think he's scum.




PPE: chairs makes a good point.  To expand, they gambled on me being the most obvious investigation target and/or scum are unlikely players yo be normally targeted on N1.

[Robz888]

These things are all possible. Sort of an unusually large number of data points to consider so early. That's a good thing, though I'm not sure what I think about them...

[mcmcsalot]

my thoughts would be go with ash is town for now, though keep in mind he could be godfather. work from the list he made adding himself, and go from there.

Seeing as all of the wagon yesterday were on town, and they all were pretty similar on how strong the case was, faust stands out as refusing to lynch chairs, from a scum perspective it would get town point post flip, though from a town perspective we are pretty sure hes town

[Robz888]

my thoughts would be go with ash is town for now, though keep in mind he could be godfather. work from the list he made adding himself, and go from there.

Seeing as all of the wagon yesterday were on town, and they all were pretty similar on how strong the case was, faust stands out as refusing to lynch chairs, from a scum perspective it would get town point post flip, though from a town perspective we are pretty sure hes town

It could also be a scum plot, since the argument that sudgy is town came immediately from ash, and the argument that ash is town comes exclusively from sudgy.

[ashersky]

my thoughts would be go with ash is town for now, though keep in mind he could be godfather. work from the list he made adding himself, and go from there.

Seeing as all of the wagon yesterday were on town, and they all were pretty similar on how strong the case was, faust stands out as refusing to lynch chairs, from a scum perspective it would get town point post flip, though from a town perspective we are pretty sure hes town

It could also be a scum plot, since the argument that sudgy is town came immediately from ash, and the argument that ash is town comes exclusively from sudgy.

Right.

I think the possibilities, in no particular order (at this point):

Sudgy is town / Investigated town ashersky
Sudgy is scum / Fakeclaimed and ashersky is town
Sudgy is scum / Fakeclaimed and ashersky is scum, too
Sudgy is town / Investigated godfather ashersky
Sudgy is town / Didn't investigate, wifoming scum, has a strong enough townread on ash to risk it




(on a mod side note, the goal of this setup when I built it was to really reduce solvability, which so far seems to be working!)

[ashersky]

my thoughts would be go with ash is town for now, though keep in mind he could be godfather. work from the list he made adding himself, and go from there.

Seeing as all of the wagon yesterday were on town, and they all were pretty similar on how strong the case was, faust stands out as refusing to lynch chairs, from a scum perspective it would get town point post flip, though from a town perspective we are pretty sure hes town

mom salon makes a great point, too.

I pushed chairs all day until he claimed VT.  That's an easy fake claim, too.

[chairs]

So if we think faust/chairs is the scumteam (I'm not scum, faust might be), then lynching faust or myself is a good idea.  If we think Sudgy/Ash are scum, lynching Ash probably tells us more than lynching Sudgy.

That being said, I think ash and sudgy are both town, so I'm disinclined to lynch either.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: Faust confident enough in my reads and Poe, this is extremely likely to hit scum.

I don't know where chairs got the idea he's scum tied to Faust, I think scum!Faust was purposely advocating against the town!chairs lunch that he assumed would go through for the cred.

[ashersky]

vote: Faust confident enough in my reads and Poe, this is extremely likely to hit scum.

I don't know where chairs got the idea he's scum tied to Faust, I think scum!Faust was purposely advocating against the town!chairs lunch that he assumed would go through for the cred.

I do think there's a strong case to be made against faust.  I'll re-read after the weekend.

[faust]

I'd say sudgy is also an IC.  Did you use your shot sudgy?

I'm coming back to this post. It's scummy. Why did you ask that, ashersky?

I think it's funny your hyper-focused here.  Afraid of what we will find if we focus on D1?

I have no idea what you mean. How am I "hyper-focused"?

[faust]

Hey sudgy, we need ya pal.

I finally just woke up!

Anyway, WIFOM is amazing (like telling scum you might not use your shot).  I investigated ash, and he turned up town.  Remember that he could be the Godfather, but he's most likely town.

This makes no sense at all. Then again, I don't see scum!sudgy pulling that kind of trick... I'm confused now.

[faust]

...Actually, it -also- makes sense in one scenario where they expected sudgy to use his shot: ashersky is Godfather (or they want us to think he is).

Ash is the obvious choice, in my mind, to investigate.  He's one of the best people in our group at saying remarkably towny things as scum, and being scummy as town, so practically everything he does is a null tell.  This makes using a Cop on him a great choice.

Well, I don't think ash is such an obvious choice... Robz, for example, would also make a great investigation target. I somehow doubt that scum was confident enough that they correctly guessed sudgy's target to not roleblock him.

[faust]

my thoughts would be go with ash is town for now, though keep in mind he could be godfather. work from the list he made adding himself, and go from there.

Seeing as all of the wagon yesterday were on town, and they all were pretty similar on how strong the case was, faust stands out as refusing to lynch chairs, from a scum perspective it would get town point post flip, though from a town perspective we are pretty sure hes town

1. you're a bit quick to conclude that all D1 wagons were on town.
2. you are using bad logic. If I argued against a chairs lynch and he's town, I'm scummy because I want the town cred. If I agrue against a chairs lynch and he's scum, I'm scummy because I'm trying to protect my partner. So by this, it is always scummy to argue against lynches. That obviously makes no sense.

[faust]

vote: Faust confident enough in my reads and Poe, this is extremely likely to hit scum.

I don't know where chairs got the idea he's scum tied to Faust, I think scum!Faust was purposely advocating against the town!chairs lunch that he assumed would go through for the cred.

Wait, what PoE? Which other players can you exclude? And "extremely likely", seriously? It's D2 and there's virtually no case against me. You are wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

[faust]

vote: Faust confident enough in my reads and Poe, this is extremely likely to hit scum.

I don't know where chairs got the idea he's scum tied to Faust, I think scum!Faust was purposely advocating against the town!chairs lunch that he assumed would go through for the cred.

I do think there's a strong case to be made against faust.  I'll re-read after the weekend.

ash hedging on.

[ashersky]

vote: Faust confident enough in my reads and Poe, this is extremely likely to hit scum.

I don't know where chairs got the idea he's scum tied to Faust, I think scum!Faust was purposely advocating against the town!chairs lunch that he assumed would go through for the cred.

I do think there's a strong case to be made against faust.  I'll re-read after the weekend.

ash hedging on.

Is overly defensive to the point of being insulted Faust usually scum!faust or town!faust?

[faust]

My (somewhat) conclusive thoughts on the sudgy thing: No matter what happened here, it is certain that scum made an extremely unordinary move. Therefore, I think ashersky is scum, because he's the kind of player that would make a move like that. I think that most other players, as scum, would have just roleblocked sudgy (or, if sudgy is scum, claimed that he was roleblocked).

[ashersky]

My (somewhat) conclusive thoughts on the sudgy thing: No matter what happened here, it is certain that scum made an extremely unordinary move. Therefore, I think ashersky is scum, because he's the kind of player that would make a move like that. I think that most other players, as scum, would have just roleblocked sudgy (or, if sudgy is scum, claimed that he was roleblocked).

Love the omgus train.

You are just as capable of being unorthodox as scum as I am.

[faust]

My (somewhat) conclusive thoughts on the sudgy thing: No matter what happened here, it is certain that scum made an extremely unordinary move. Therefore, I think ashersky is scum, because he's the kind of player that would make a move like that. I think that most other players, as scum, would have just roleblocked sudgy (or, if sudgy is scum, claimed that he was roleblocked).

Love the omgus train.

You are just as capable of being unorthodox as scum as I am.

Well, maybe, but of course I know I'm not scum, so I have to suspect you.

[faust]

Also, if someone is OMGUSing here, it's you! I voted you first! 

[ashersky]

Also, if someone is OMGUSing here, it's you! I voted you first! 

Robz's favorite scum tell, I see.

[mcmcsalot]

Gotta be scum Faust, in my experience(I always think Faust is scum) he usually just keeps making statements I disagree with and usually calls me scummy as well(since from his perspective I'm making the disagreeable statements) here he is very defensive which strikes me as different and he called me very very wrong but is going after ash instead of me.

[chairs]

...I think I have to vote: faust.  The way he responded to ash's omgus-implication was scummy.

[faust]

Gotta be scum Faust, in my experience(I always think Faust is scum) he usually just keeps making statements I disagree with and usually calls me scummy as well(since from his perspective I'm making the disagreeable statements) here he is very defensive which strikes me as different and he called me very very wrong but is going after ash instead of me.

I'm scum because I find someone else more scummy than you?

[faust]

...I think I have to vote: faust.  The way he responded to ash's omgus-implication was scummy.

Expand.

[faust]

I think I may be onto something here.

[chairs]

Also, if someone is OMGUSing here, it's you! I voted you first! 

This (and the conversation that led up to it) make me feel like you're scum.

There's not much there to expand on.

[Robz888]

Faust looks like he is being railroaded here. Why is he scummier than anyone else not on the presumed IC list? I don't think his reaction ash was anything out of the ordinary.

[mcmcsalot]

Faust looks like he is being railroaded here. Why is he scummier than anyone else not on the presumed IC list? I don't think his reaction ash was anything out of the ordinary.

Because I disagree with like all of the theories he proposed I think he was way to against the chairs lynch which was pretty similar to the other lynches Faust was proposing(Scotty) now that we are pretty sure they are both town, it seems scummy of Faust. Also his whole reaction to ash thoughts on sudgy and the Poe list was pretty scummy

[sudgy]

I'm going to Vote: faust as well.

[azadin]

Faust got extremely defensive when mcmc and ash started pointing out some discrepancies in his voting patterns D1. While I'm not 100% convinced ash is town, it seems pretty likely if we are to believe sudgy is town (which I do, considering his frustration post after he thought he was lynched). Given that ash is likely town, faust is acting almost nervous about the case against him, which he claims is "wrong, wrong, wrong" and non-existent.

Vote: faust

[sudgy]

How many votes does he have?  I think we're really close to lynch.

[sudgy]

Never mind, he's at L-2.  I thought ash had voted as well.

[Robz888]

Faust got extremely defensive when mcmc and ash started pointing out some discrepancies in his voting patterns D1. While I'm not 100% convinced ash is town, it seems pretty likely if we are to believe sudgy is town (which I do, considering his frustration post after he thought he was lynched). Given that ash is likely town, faust is acting almost nervous about the case against him, which he claims is "wrong, wrong, wrong" and non-existent.

Vote: faust

Defensiveness is not scummy, nervousness is not scummy. I don't even think faust was either of these things.

[Witherweaver]

I propose an alternate wagon: Vote: ADK.  Not because I have any feeling towards Faust, but because I've had a growing feeling towards ADK.

What I've noticed about ADK is that when he's town, he's fairly aggressive and accusatory.  He causes meaningful interactions and usually finds some reason to put a real vote on someone pretty early on.  When ADK is scum, he tends to have more alignment-neutral posts and feels more like he's fishing for something that can look convincingly scummy without actually trying to find scum.

ADK's first real vote is #217 against Sudgy for being "super quiet", which is sort of an easy and safe accusation to make.  Before that, we had the blitz wagon thing against SP, which is a null thing in and of itself, but does provide a way for ADK to appear to be doing stuff.  After the initial blitz, he talks about skipping theory talk, explains some stuff to the new player, criticizes Scott for saying some natural things, talks more about blitz wagon and general game meta, eventually unvotes his RVS blitz wagon against Scott (this is #140), then in #141 starts spreading some general suspicion.  (Uses keywords "off", "strange", and later on "interesting".)  The rest of the day is mostly questioning some things or making noncommittal comments.

He really did not say a lot all of Day 1.. generally much more reserved and staying in a position to find anyone town or scum.  Had enough posts to remain present, but didn't really have a lot of content. 

[Robz888]

Mostly agree. Vote: ADK

[Teproc]

Sorry, I was travelling today.

Vote Count 2.1

faust (4) : mcmcsalot, chairs, sudgy, azadin
A Drowned Kernel (2) : Witherweaver, Robz888
ashersky (1) : faust

Not Voting (4): A Drowned Kernel, EgorK,  scott_pilgrim, ashersky

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 07:00 PM on July 16:00

[faust]

Faust got extremely defensive when mcmc and ash started pointing out some discrepancies in his voting patterns D1. While I'm not 100% convinced ash is town, it seems pretty likely if we are to believe sudgy is town (which I do, considering his frustration post after he thought he was lynched). Given that ash is likely town, faust is acting almost nervous about the case against him, which he claims is "wrong, wrong, wrong" and non-existent.

Vote: faust

ash and mcmc didn't point out any "discrepancies", they just said that they didn't like who I voted for.

[faust]

Faust looks like he is being railroaded here. Why is he scummier than anyone else not on the presumed IC list? I don't think his reaction ash was anything out of the ordinary.

Because I disagree with like all of the theories he proposed I think he was way to against the chairs lynch which was pretty similar to the other lynches Faust was proposing(Scotty) now that we are pretty sure they are both town, it seems scummy of Faust. Also his whole reaction to ash thoughts on sudgy and the Poe list was pretty scummy

You're still using bad logic, and haven't even responded to my post accusing you of doing that. Your whole case is nothing, and merely diverting attention from ashersky.

[Witherweaver]

Faust looks like he is being railroaded here. Why is he scummier than anyone else not on the presumed IC list? I don't think his reaction ash was anything out of the ordinary.

Because I disagree with like all of the theories he proposed I think he was way to against the chairs lynch which was pretty similar to the other lynches Faust was proposing(Scotty) now that we are pretty sure they are both town, it seems scummy of Faust. Also his whole reaction to ash thoughts on sudgy and the Poe list was pretty scummy

What's the scum narrative for Faust opposing the Chairs lynch?  Do you think Chairs is scum?

[ashersky]

Faust got extremely defensive when mcmc and ash started pointing out some discrepancies in his voting patterns D1. While I'm not 100% convinced ash is town, it seems pretty likely if we are to believe sudgy is town (which I do, considering his frustration post after he thought he was lynched). Given that ash is likely town, faust is acting almost nervous about the case against him, which he claims is "wrong, wrong, wrong" and non-existent.

Vote: faust

Defensiveness is not scummy, nervousness is not scummy. I don't even think faust was either of these things.

Lack of both is scummy, I think you'd agree.

His reactions to the most recent flurry of vote is worth your read.

[scott_pilgrim]

I could be sold on the ADK case.  I would like to re-read faust at some point.

I'm still trying to figure out how sudgy's shot got through last night, and I think it has to be one of the following:
1. Sudgy is scum (I think this is pretty unlikely)
2. Scum wanted to WIFOM us into thinking sudgy is scum (I think this is also pretty unlikely)
3. Scum expected sudgy to target ash and godfathered him
4. A town RB RB'd the scum RB (that's possible, right?)
5. Scum wanted to RB someone else that they thought had a PR

So I don't know, 1, 2, 3, and 5 all seem unlikely to me, which makes me think it's #4 (assuming that's possible), in which case it might be good for any town roleblockers to claim and say who they targeted last night, since their target is likely to be scum.  But even then I'm not sure, sine if scum fakeclaims RB they can push a lynch on someone else and not be confirmed scum when that person flips town.

[Robz888]

Faust got extremely defensive when mcmc and ash started pointing out some discrepancies in his voting patterns D1. While I'm not 100% convinced ash is town, it seems pretty likely if we are to believe sudgy is town (which I do, considering his frustration post after he thought he was lynched). Given that ash is likely town, faust is acting almost nervous about the case against him, which he claims is "wrong, wrong, wrong" and non-existent.

Vote: faust

Defensiveness is not scummy, nervousness is not scummy. I don't even think faust was either of these things.

Lack of both is scummy, I think you'd agree.

That's true! But that's not the argument you are making, is it?

[Witherweaver]

I could be sold on the ADK case.  I would like to re-read faust at some point.

I'm still trying to figure out how sudgy's shot got through last night, and I think it has to be one of the following:
1. Sudgy is scum (I think this is pretty unlikely)
2. Scum wanted to WIFOM us into thinking sudgy is scum (I think this is also pretty unlikely)
3. Scum expected sudgy to target ash and godfathered him
4. A town RB RB'd the scum RB (that's possible, right?)
5. Scum wanted to RB someone else that they thought had a PR

So I don't know, 1, 2, 3, and 5 all seem unlikely to me, which makes me think it's #4 (assuming that's possible), in which case it might be good for any town roleblockers to claim and say who they targeted last night, since their target is likely to be scum.  But even then I'm not sure, sine if scum fakeclaims RB they can push a lynch on someone else and not be confirmed scum when that person flips town.

They get to choose?

[sudgy]

I could be sold on the ADK case.  I would like to re-read faust at some point.

I'm still trying to figure out how sudgy's shot got through last night, and I think it has to be one of the following:
1. Sudgy is scum (I think this is pretty unlikely)
2. Scum wanted to WIFOM us into thinking sudgy is scum (I think this is also pretty unlikely)
3. Scum expected sudgy to target ash and godfathered him
4. A town RB RB'd the scum RB (that's possible, right?)
5. Scum wanted to RB someone else that they thought had a PR

So I don't know, 1, 2, 3, and 5 all seem unlikely to me, which makes me think it's #4 (assuming that's possible), in which case it might be good for any town roleblockers to claim and say who they targeted last night, since their target is likely to be scum.  But even then I'm not sure, sine if scum fakeclaims RB they can push a lynch on someone else and not be confirmed scum when that person flips town.

Also, scum could have thought I wouldn't use my shot tonight (like I said I might not, which is why I said that).

They get to choose?

No.  They don't.  If SP wasn't confirmed town, this would have confirmed it for me...

[A Drowned Kernel]

I propose an alternate wagon: Vote: ADK.  Not because I have any feeling towards Faust, but because I've had a growing feeling towards ADK.

What I've noticed about ADK is that when he's town, he's fairly aggressive and accusatory.  He causes meaningful interactions and usually finds some reason to put a real vote on someone pretty early on.  When ADK is scum, he tends to have more alignment-neutral posts and feels more like he's fishing for something that can look convincingly scummy without actually trying to find scum.

ADK's first real vote is #217 against Sudgy for being "super quiet", which is sort of an easy and safe accusation to make.  Before that, we had the blitz wagon thing against SP, which is a null thing in and of itself, but does provide a way for ADK to appear to be doing stuff.  After the initial blitz, he talks about skipping theory talk, explains some stuff to the new player, criticizes Scott for saying some natural things, talks more about blitz wagon and general game meta, eventually unvotes his RVS blitz wagon against Scott (this is #140), then in #141 starts spreading some general suspicion.  (Uses keywords "off", "strange", and later on "interesting".)  The rest of the day is mostly questioning some things or making noncommittal comments.

He really did not say a lot all of Day 1.. generally much more reserved and staying in a position to find anyone town or scum.  Had enough posts to remain present, but didn't really have a lot of content.

I don't have a lot of time for this as I'm on vacation, but I did have (what felt like at the time) a good reason to vote for Sudgy, and kept my vote there because I was confident in the lynch. Other than that, there wasn't much happening early in day one. Quite a bit has happened since, but I haven't had time to really comment on it. When I do, I will.

The faust wagon is growing pretty strong. I had a town read on him day one for a very genuine-seeming vote on Scott, but that's now data point among many. I'll have to reread them.

They get to choose?

No, they don't. There's one godfather. SP's probably getting this mixed up with Super Mario Bros.

PPE: what sudgy said.

[Witherweaver]

So Scott made a setup mistake; I guess he's an IC now!

[chairs]

So Scott made a setup mistake; I guess he's an IC now!

Now you're getting it! 

[scott_pilgrim]

Also, scum could have thought I wouldn't use my shot tonight (like I said I might not, which is why I said that).

Yeah, but even then, who else would they rather target?  I think if I were scum I would just RB the claimed cop if that's the only claimed PR (they know what happened with 3 of our 6 rolls, so they're not likely to find PR's elsewhere; though they also know whether we got 2-3 PR rolls, 4-5 PR rolls, or 6 PR rolls).

And yeah I think I was mixing it up with the Super Mario set-up.

[scott_pilgrim]

[mcmcsalot]

Hey Faust I think your scum and that's my opinion so ha. If you have any disagreements with that please direct your questions to ashersky so he can take you down!

[faust]

So this is going quiet again? I understand it's the weekend, but have you guys learned nothing from D1?

[mcmcsalot]

Egork, ashersky and scot should vote for you.

[ashersky]

Post count:

ash: 56
Robz: 52
faust: 59
ADK: 33
sudgy: 32
scott: 29
WW: 59
Egor: 22
chairs: 32
mcmc: 34
aza: 28

That's a pretty good showing by all.

[ashersky]

Sorry, I was travelling today.

Vote Count 2.1

faust (4) : mcmcsalot, chairs, sudgy, azadin
A Drowned Kernel (2) : Witherweaver, Robz888
ashersky (1) : faust

Not Voting (4): A Drowned Kernel, EgorK,  scott_pilgrim, ashersky

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 07:00 PM on July 16:00

Anyone around want to lynch faust?  Only takes two.

[ashersky]

D1 Faust Re-read.  Numbers are his posts in chronological order:

Pre-game:
#1 - In.
#2 - Conditional Out.

Day 1:
#3 - Happy that yuma is IC.  Says "probably 2 Ms right?"  RVS votes for WW.
#4 - Super odd jokey post about not reading, not liking the setup for lacking theory talk, and not being scum.  QFT:

Sorry, I did not read thoroughly. Yeah, I can't figure out what to post as well, this game has too little theory for me and now I don't really get into the game

I'm not scummy scum scum though.

#5 - In response to chairs asking what we can discern from ADK's blitz lynch idea, faust says he doubts there is "much to read into this."  Says slight town read on ADK for it.
#6 - Votes for mcmcsalot following his interaction with ADK, saying it's easy to paint ADK as scummy.  That's two posts in a row tying himself to ADK.
#7 - Says RVS a lot to annoy Robz.
#8 - Calls azadin's vote on him fair for not contributing enough.  Says he will do more.
#9 - Responds to SP, says he disagrees about ADK and thinks he's more likely town, agrees that azadin looks super towny.
#10 - Question about deadlines.
#11 - Asks where everyone is.
#12 - Asks for explanation of why the blitz lynch idea was scummy.
#13 - Requests prods for SP and WW.
#14 - Responds to mcmc's explanation for why the blitz lynch idea was scummy, disagreeing.  Points out a possible contradiction, given mcmc was willing to L-1 someone on the second IRL day of D1.
#15 - Votes for SP.
#16 - Says he and mcmc agree on SP.  Jokes that the agreement must mean they are 100% correct.
#17 - Calls the chairs wagon strange.  States that he understands there is a case and people are voting for that reason.  Argues the SP case is just as good (weak).  Tries to redirect from chairs to SP.
#18 - Explains his SP case.
#19 - Says he doesn't want to lynch EgorK for ongoing game reasons.
#20 - Says SP is super-hedgy and not as towny as he usually is.
#21 - Votes for sudgy and states LAL is extra important.
#22 - Explains why LAL is important (scum can just leave votes when game stalls).
#23 - Responds to mcmc's disagreement, says he doesn't see anyone trying to get the game going.
#24 - Disagrees that sudgy sounds like town!sudgy.  Thinks he was being self-preserving, which is scummy.
#25 - Jokingly calls out sudgy with the "voting me for the wrong reasons" meme.  Asks for a serious explanation of why chairs's post was scummy.
#26 - Says he read ashersky's case on chairs and disagrees.  Asks if anyone else has a case.
#27 - Says ashersky and Robz started the wagon and then disappeared from the game.
#28 - Thinks scum is happy and we don't have a wagon on scum.  Proposes a random lynch.  Votes for Robz.
#29 - Changes his vote to SP.
#30 - Response to why he's random voting, which was that traditional scumhunting didn't work.
#31 - Doesn't like SP's vote on chairs to take him to L-1.
#32 - Says "we shall see" when SP says there isn't time for another lynch.
#33 - Points out that chairs should be back sometime today.  Asks EgorK to vote SP.
#34 - Says chairs's VLA makes him a worse lynch than before.
#35 - Asks ADK to join the SP wagon.
#36 - States again that SP is super hedgy, adds super lurky.
#37 - Leaves, last request is to lynch SP.


All in all, a spectacularly scummy D1 for faustus aurelius here.  He's way more jokey than the usual serious faust.  Like, way more.  He's probably got 5 jokey posts out of 35, which is a big percentage for him.  That really sticks out.  What also sticks out is how hard he tried to push the SP mislynch through all day.  He used SP as an alternative to both ADK and chairs, and rode that wagon from basically his 15th post of the game.  He had the weird random lynch idea, jumped to sudgy for awhile, and back to SP.

The list of players he never mentions ever is WW, and only WW.  Well, he opens with that RVS vote in his very first post, then not one mention of WW the rest of day one.  That's a bit odd, worth noting.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm going to do a reread tomorrow, if I find faust scummy in it I could vote for him.

[scott_pilgrim]

Wait, so I don't think anyone responded to my idea that maybe a town RB blocked a scum RB.  Would it be good to have everyone claim either "RB who targeted someone last night" or "not RB who targeted someone last night"?  (The idea being that "RB blocked the scum RB" is the most plausible explanation for what happened last night, and therefore anyone who was roleblocked is much more likely to be scum; the downside being that scum can maybe get away with a fakeclaim and use that to push a mislynch without getting lynched the next day.)

Also, I just re-read faust (I haven't looked at ash's summary yet) and yeah, he looks scummy.  I'll try to re-read ADK as well but I think I would be happy lynching faust.

[ashersky]

Wait, so I don't think anyone responded to my idea that maybe a town RB blocked a scum RB.  Would it be good to have everyone claim either "RB who targeted someone last night" or "not RB who targeted someone last night"?  (The idea being that "RB blocked the scum RB" is the most plausible explanation for what happened last night, and therefore anyone who was roleblocked is much more likely to be scum; the downside being that scum can maybe get away with a fakeclaim and use that to push a mislynch without getting lynched the next day.)

Also, I just re-read faust (I haven't looked at ash's summary yet) and yeah, he looks scummy.  I'll try to re-read ADK as well but I think I would be happy lynching faust.

I think "mail-mi lied" is just as likely (more likely, actually) than "Town RB blocked the scum RB."

[A Drowned Kernel]

Wait, so I don't think anyone responded to my idea that maybe a town RB blocked a scum RB.  Would it be good to have everyone claim either "RB who targeted someone last night" or "not RB who targeted someone last night"?  (The idea being that "RB blocked the scum RB" is the most plausible explanation for what happened last night, and therefore anyone who was roleblocked is much more likely to be scum; the downside being that scum can maybe get away with a fakeclaim and use that to push a mislynch without getting lynched the next day.)

Also, I just re-read faust (I haven't looked at ash's summary yet) and yeah, he looks scummy.  I'll try to re-read ADK as well but I think I would be happy lynching faust.

I think "mail-mi lied" is just as likely (more likely, actually) than "Town RB blocked the scum RB."

I assume you mean sudgy, mail-mi's not in this game.

[ashersky]

Wait, so I don't think anyone responded to my idea that maybe a town RB blocked a scum RB.  Would it be good to have everyone claim either "RB who targeted someone last night" or "not RB who targeted someone last night"?  (The idea being that "RB blocked the scum RB" is the most plausible explanation for what happened last night, and therefore anyone who was roleblocked is much more likely to be scum; the downside being that scum can maybe get away with a fakeclaim and use that to push a mislynch without getting lynched the next day.)

Also, I just re-read faust (I haven't looked at ash's summary yet) and yeah, he looks scummy.  I'll try to re-read ADK as well but I think I would be happy lynching faust.

I think "mail-mi lied" is just as likely (more likely, actually) than "Town RB blocked the scum RB."

I assume you mean sudgy, mail-mi's not in this game.

Yes, I do.  Switching between games here.

[Robz888]

Wait, so I don't think anyone responded to my idea that maybe a town RB blocked a scum RB.  Would it be good to have everyone claim either "RB who targeted someone last night" or "not RB who targeted someone last night"?  (The idea being that "RB blocked the scum RB" is the most plausible explanation for what happened last night, and therefore anyone who was roleblocked is much more likely to be scum; the downside being that scum can maybe get away with a fakeclaim and use that to push a mislynch without getting lynched the next day.)

Also, I just re-read faust (I haven't looked at ash's summary yet) and yeah, he looks scummy.  I'll try to re-read ADK as well but I think I would be happy lynching faust.

I think your idea is very unlikely, frankly. I'm not sure what's more likely though, because "scum didn't expect to get investigated by sudgy" is a ridiculous notion when there are three of them. There's probably a better chance they didn't think sudgy would investigate at all. I'm not sure why they'd think that. "Sudgy is lying" seems most plausible to me, except for sudgy's townslip as explained by ash.

Still think there's not much to the faust case, and people arguing against him are making contradictory arguments.

However, faust: voting for ash is not a good policy. If ash is scum, it must be because ash and and sudgy are pulling one over on us, in which case, it is infinitely more logical to lynch sudgy.

[Robz888]

So faust, can you explain why you are voting for ash and not sudgy?

[sudgy]

I'm still happy with the faust lynch.

[scott_pilgrim]

Wait, so I don't think anyone responded to my idea that maybe a town RB blocked a scum RB.  Would it be good to have everyone claim either "RB who targeted someone last night" or "not RB who targeted someone last night"?  (The idea being that "RB blocked the scum RB" is the most plausible explanation for what happened last night, and therefore anyone who was roleblocked is much more likely to be scum; the downside being that scum can maybe get away with a fakeclaim and use that to push a mislynch without getting lynched the next day.)

Also, I just re-read faust (I haven't looked at ash's summary yet) and yeah, he looks scummy.  I'll try to re-read ADK as well but I think I would be happy lynching faust.

I think your idea is very unlikely, frankly. I'm not sure what's more likely though, because "scum didn't expect to get investigated by sudgy" is a ridiculous notion when there are three of them. There's probably a better chance they didn't think sudgy would investigate at all. I'm not sure why they'd think that. "Sudgy is lying" seems most plausible to me, except for sudgy's townslip as explained by ash.

Well yeah, in a vacuum it's a stretch, but I feel like the "RB blocked an RB" explanation is the most likely, because I just can't see any of the alternatives being true.  I mean I just can't see myself not blocking sudgy if I'm scum in that situation, and I can't see sudgy being scum here.  So either ash is godfather, or something else happened.  Maybe they just forgot to put in a target or missed the deadline or something like that?

[scott_pilgrim]

So faust, can you explain why you are voting for ash and not sudgy?

Presumably he thinks ash is the godfather (which I definitely think is worth considering, but even if you had a moderate scum read on ash I don't think it would be worth lynching him unless we get to later days and still haven't seen a godfather flip).

[Robz888]

So faust, can you explain why you are voting for ash and not sudgy?

Presumably he thinks ash is the godfather (which I definitely think is worth considering, but even if you had a moderate scum read on ash I don't think it would be worth lynching him unless we get to later days and still haven't seen a godfather flip).

I did not ask the IC to provide faust his answer.

[ashersky]

Wait, so I don't think anyone responded to my idea that maybe a town RB blocked a scum RB.  Would it be good to have everyone claim either "RB who targeted someone last night" or "not RB who targeted someone last night"?  (The idea being that "RB blocked the scum RB" is the most plausible explanation for what happened last night, and therefore anyone who was roleblocked is much more likely to be scum; the downside being that scum can maybe get away with a fakeclaim and use that to push a mislynch without getting lynched the next day.)

Also, I just re-read faust (I haven't looked at ash's summary yet) and yeah, he looks scummy.  I'll try to re-read ADK as well but I think I would be happy lynching faust.

I think your idea is very unlikely, frankly. I'm not sure what's more likely though, because "scum didn't expect to get investigated by sudgy" is a ridiculous notion when there are three of them. There's probably a better chance they didn't think sudgy would investigate at all. I'm not sure why they'd think that. "Sudgy is lying" seems most plausible to me, except for sudgy's townslip as explained by ash.

Well yeah, in a vacuum it's a stretch, but I feel like the "RB blocked an RB" explanation is the most likely, because I just can't see any of the alternatives being true.  I mean I just can't see myself not blocking sudgy if I'm scum in that situation, and I can't see sudgy being scum here.  So either ash is godfather, or something else happened.  Maybe they just forgot to put in a target or missed the deadline or something like that?

SP, if you weren't the UB, I'd think you were the RB really wanting to claim.

It just doesn't happen that often.  I mean, compare this to a guilty cop result.  That would be a 2/10 chance (subtract the IC, Godfather, and Cop) to catch scum.  Roleblocking the scum who roleblocked is 1/10.  Neither is all that likely, and roleblocking half as unlikely as the other.

For example, I was the Town Jailkeeper in Hangman Mafia and I stopped the nightkill there on N1.  That was unlikely, and it was a 1/6 chance.

On a side note, I just reread D2 on in that game and it was awesome.

[ashersky]

It just doesn't happen that often.  I mean, compare this to a guilty cop result.  That would be a 2/109 chance (subtract the IC, Godfather, and Cop) to catch scum.  Roleblocking the scum who roleblocked is 1/10.  Neither is all that likely, and roleblocking almost half as unlikely as the other.

Fixed my math.

[faust]

So faust, can you explain why you are voting for ash and not sudgy?

I can see a scenario where sudgy is town and scum is trying to trick us into lynching him. (With, say, GF ashersky)

[faust]

All in all, a spectacularly scummy D1 for faustus aurelius here.  He's way more jokey than the usual serious faust.  Like, way more.  He's probably got 5 jokey posts out of 35, which is a big percentage for him.  That really sticks out.  What also sticks out is how hard he tried to push the SP mislynch through all day.  He used SP as an alternative to both ADK and chairs, and rode that wagon from basically his 15th post of the game.  He had the weird random lynch idea, jumped to sudgy for awhile, and back to SP.

The list of players he never mentions ever is WW, and only WW.  Well, he opens with that RVS vote in his very first post, then not one mention of WW the rest of day one.  That's a bit odd, worth noting.

I don't really see how what I've been doing is "spectacularly scummy". You're using jokey=scummy, which is just wrong, but people somehow still believe it, and other than that, I see very little.

[faust]

faustus aurelius

Also ashersky, please seperate between the games you're in.

[ashersky]

All in all, a spectacularly scummy D1 for faustus aurelius here.  He's way more jokey than the usual serious faust.  Like, way more.  He's probably got 5 jokey posts out of 35, which is a big percentage for him.  That really sticks out.  What also sticks out is how hard he tried to push the SP mislynch through all day.  He used SP as an alternative to both ADK and chairs, and rode that wagon from basically his 15th post of the game.  He had the weird random lynch idea, jumped to sudgy for awhile, and back to SP.

The list of players he never mentions ever is WW, and only WW.  Well, he opens with that RVS vote in his very first post, then not one mention of WW the rest of day one.  That's a bit odd, worth noting.

I don't really see how what I've been doing is "spectacularly scummy". You're using jokey=scummy, which is just wrong, but people somehow still believe it, and other than that, I see very little.

Depends on the player.  Your joking comes off as nervous cover.

As for seeing very little...it's you.  You aren't going to agree with me.  But you were massively pushing a mislynch away From others.

[ashersky]

faustus aurelius

Also ashersky, please seperate between the games you're in.

That's my new nickname for you.

[faust]

Again, how is arguing against chairs scummy? You can say it's scummy because I'm after the towncred if he's town. You can say I'm defending my partner if he's scum. Because it works both ways, it's an invalid argument.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.2

faust (4) : mcmcsalot, chairs, sudgy, azadin
A Drowned Kernel (2) : Witherweaver, Robz888
ashersky (1) : faust

Not Voting (4): A Drowned Kernel, EgorK,  scott_pilgrim, ashersky

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 07:00 PM on July 16

[faust]

faustus aurelius

Also ashersky, please seperate between the games you're in.

That's my new nickname for you.

Well, it could be worse I guess...

[faust]

Okay, I've done some thinking.

I am a 1-shot Vigilante.

I thought it would be better not to claim this, since scum is certain going to roleblock me... but thinking things through, I doubt I ever want to use my shot. We're an odd number now, and most likely it will stay that way, so me using my shot would basically be trading a town lynch for a kill controlled by me and a worse possible MyLo situation.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So, we're getting to the point where we're running out of letters. If both faust and sudgy are telling the truth (and I think sudgy is), then we rolled either MMCV?? or MMEV??. It might be possible to catch scum in a fakeclaim if other people claimed but I don't know that it's worth the risk, because scum could have the wiggle room of T's being rolled.

I'd rather not lynch a claimed Vig today. I'm inclined to believe that sudgy's telling the truth, and that scum didn't roleblock him for WIFOM reasons, so I don't want to lynch him or ash today. That leaves a surprisingly small POE pool of chairs (I'm not so hot on the VT claim thing), azadin, Robz, WW, mcmc, and EgorK. What's interesting is that other than chairs, no one in that list has gotten much attention yet. mc has been very absent but I think he's on VLA? I don't know, I'm still catching up with this game.

[ashersky]

Okay, I've done some thinking.

I am a 1-shot Vigilante.

I thought it would be better not to claim this, since scum is certain going to roleblock me... but thinking things through, I doubt I ever want to use my shot. We're an odd number now, and most likely it will stay that way, so me using my shot would basically be trading a town lynch for a kill controlled by me and a worse possible MyLo situation.

I'd generally say this is a good claim -- we can confirm it.  Except we can't, unless we lynch the Roleblocker (or the RB was 1-Shot and it's used up).

Like, MMVTTT is a 1-Shot RB.  MMVVVT or MMVVVV or MMVXXT or whatever all have full RBs.

At this point, definitely no one else claim, unless you are Masons.  I think Masons should absolutely claim at this point.  That'd give us 3 ICs + sudgy + Faust's claim to work around.

[ashersky]

1-Shot Cop comes from E, EE, EEE or C, CCC.

EVMMXX, EEVMMX, EEEVMM, CVMMXX, CCCVMM

Plus other stuff.  Those are the easiest possibilities given no liars.

Like I said, hard to solve.

[faust]

Okay, I've done some thinking.

I am a 1-shot Vigilante.

I thought it would be better not to claim this, since scum is certain going to roleblock me... but thinking things through, I doubt I ever want to use my shot. We're an odd number now, and most likely it will stay that way, so me using my shot would basically be trading a town lynch for a kill controlled by me and a worse possible MyLo situation.

I'd generally say this is a good claim -- we can confirm it.  Except we can't, unless we lynch the Roleblocker (or the RB was 1-Shot and it's used up).

Like, MMVTTT is a 1-Shot RB.  MMVVVT or MMVVVV or MMVXXT or whatever all have full RBs.

At this point, definitely no one else claim, unless you are Masons.  I think Masons should absolutely claim at this point.  That'd give us 3 ICs + sudgy + Faust's claim to work around.

Ash, you don't know your own setup? I don't believe that. Scum Roleblocker is never 1-shot. Also, should I consider it a scumslip that you're ignoring sudgy's claim?

PPE: I see you've corrected yourself.

[faust]

By the way, another 1-shot Vig would be able to counterclaim me.

[ashersky]

You are right, I flubbed that up there.  I skimmed my own setup -- the 1-Shot is for Strongman.  This is my first time playing the thing.

Another 1-Shot Vig can exist (VVV).

MMEVVV is a viable setup.

[faust]

Two 1-shot vigs need at least 4 Vs. Which would mean one of sudgy, me, whoever claim would be lying.

[faust]

VVV is Vigilante; 1-shot Vigilante.

[ashersky]

Two 1-shot vigs need at least 4 Vs. Which would mean one of sudgy, me, whoever claim would be lying.

You are right again.

I believe faust here.

I'm starting to question my sudgy read, although it was very convincing.

[ashersky]

With scum knowing at least 3 letters, V is a "safe" claim if they wanted to fake it.  Not sure why he would though.  That claim came out of nowhere, I think.

I think we should aim his shot tonight, btw.  At worst, it wifom's scum into RBing him and allowing any other (if they exist) roles to do their thing.

[faust]

I think we should aim his shot tonight, btw.  At worst, it wifom's scum into RBing him and allowing any other (if they exist) roles to do their thing.

At worst, aiming my shot results in scum knowing they need not block me because I will shoot a town member for them.

[ashersky]

I think we should aim his shot tonight, btw.  At worst, it wifom's scum into RBing him and allowing any other (if they exist) roles to do their thing.

At worst, aiming my shot results in scum knowing they need not block me because I will shoot a town member for them.

Not if you don't shoot.  That's what I mean by aim.

But you are probably right.  I'd actually be open to a VT kill on purpose to help with POE.  Volunteer only, only really replaces the missing D1 lynch.

[mcmcsalot]

I do not believe faust's claim. Just saying, unprovoked unnecessary, I think he's doing it now because we have easily believe all prior claims.

[faust]

I do not believe faust's claim. Just saying, unprovoked unnecessary, I think he's doing it now because we have easily believe all prior claims.

But it's a stupid thing to claim as town. Unlike any other thing I could have claimed, this can be counterclaimed. Why would scum!me risk that?

[faust]

town = scum, obviously.

[chairs]

unvote.

More to come later.

[Robz888]

Two 1-shot vigs need at least 4 Vs. Which would mean one of sudgy, me, whoever claim would be lying.

You are right again.

I believe faust here.

I'm starting to question my sudgy read, although it was very convincing.

Looks to me like scum ash recognizing the ground is shifting against his faust case, and that he needs to do some anti-sudgy stuff in case we go that direction.

Vote: sudgy. If he's scum I'd say ashersky is also scum, if he's town, I think ashersky is definitively cleared. (Ash = Godfather would be horrible, let's just keep our fingers crossed against that.) This is a better lynch.

[Witherweaver]

Huh?  I think the Sudgy/Ash conspiracy is less likely than Godfather-Ash leaving Sudgy alone because he expected to be investigated. 

[Robz888]

Huh?  I think the Sudgy/Ash conspiracy is less likely than Godfather-Ash leaving Sudgy alone because he expected to be investigated.

Seems like a silly and unnecessary gamble for the scum team to me.

[Witherweaver]

Huh?  I think the Sudgy/Ash conspiracy is less likely than Godfather-Ash leaving Sudgy alone because he expected to be investigated.

Seems like a silly and unnecessary gamble for the scum team to me.

Sudgy fake claiming one-shot cop and binding himself to scumbuddy Ashersky in this way seems more of a gamble to me.

Well, I didn't work though the setup thing.. is Sudgy's claim a "safe" one for scum, in the sense that they would know it couldn't be countered?

[sudgy]

Huh?  I think the Sudgy/Ash conspiracy is less likely than Godfather-Ash leaving Sudgy alone because he expected to be investigated.

Seems like a silly and unnecessary gamble for the scum team to me.

Sudgy fake claiming one-shot cop and binding himself to scumbuddy Ashersky in this way seems more of a gamble to me.

Well, I didn't work though the setup thing.. is Sudgy's claim a "safe" one for scum, in the sense that they would know it couldn't be countered?

I can't see it, looking at the setup.

I personally think faust's claim is a fakeclaim.  With my PR, I decided right away that I would claim only at L-1 (I changed when the deadline was approaching).  While faust's PR is different, you usually don't just claim like that randomly.

[Robz888]

Huh?  I think the Sudgy/Ash conspiracy is less likely than Godfather-Ash leaving Sudgy alone because he expected to be investigated.

Seems like a silly and unnecessary gamble for the scum team to me.

Sudgy fake claiming one-shot cop and binding himself to scumbuddy Ashersky in this way seems more of a gamble to me.

Well, I didn't work though the setup thing.. is Sudgy's claim a "safe" one for scum, in the sense that they would know it couldn't be countered?

Yes, it's safe. There can be more than one of stuff.

[faust]

I personally think faust's claim is a fakeclaim.  With my PR, I decided right away that I would claim only at L-1 (I changed when the deadline was approaching).  While faust's PR is different, you usually don't just claim like that randomly.

I was the major wagon, and the game was stalling. Plus, I most likely wont use my PR anyway, so why should I not claim? And it's the worst fakeclaim possible.

[mcmcsalot]

I personally think faust's claim is a fakeclaim.  With my PR, I decided right away that I would claim only at L-1 (I changed when the deadline was approaching).  While faust's PR is different, you usually don't just claim like that randomly.

I was the major wagon, and the game was stalling. Plus, I most likely wont use my PR anyway, so why should I not claim? And it's the worst fakeclaim possible.

It's not a terrible fake-claim, your never expected to produce a result, if you are counter claimed you get the vig outed and potentially still live.

Worst case scenario your fake claim outs a town pr and your lynched(which you already said would have happened, hence you claiming)

Best case scenario you are believe and safe for a loong time.

This is such a fake claim, robz is also scum and helping protect his partner, robz claiming we should just "hope ash isn't a godfather" is the most ridiculous statement...

Please people see this

[Robz888]

This is such a fake claim, robz is also scum and helping protect his partner, robz claiming we should just "hope ash isn't a godfather" is the most ridiculous statement...

I don't think it's ridiculous. Doesn't scum Godfather ash have some concern that town!sudgy investigates his partner, and roleblock him anyway? It's unnecessarily risky play in my book.

[mcmcsalot]

This is such a fake claim, robz is also scum and helping protect his partner, robz claiming we should just "hope ash isn't a godfather" is the most ridiculous statement...

I don't think it's ridiculous. Doesn't scum Godfather ash have some concern that town!sudgy investigates his partner, and roleblock him anyway? It's unnecessarily risky play in my book.

Oh for clarification I agree with what you just said, if ash is a scum godfather, I doubt he...would have risked not blocking sudgy so if ash is scum sudgy has to be scum(or likely enough to just cross our fingers)

Okay in the middle of typing that I now understand what your saying, I still find you scummy for defending Faust but not nearly as much as before.

I think ash and sudgy are both town, no gambit.

[mcmcsalot]

I think robz, Faust, and possibly ww are the scum team, throwing it out there

[Witherweaver]

Pretty sure everyone just throws me in on the scumlist automatically now.

[Robz888]

This is such a fake claim, robz is also scum and helping protect his partner, robz claiming we should just "hope ash isn't a godfather" is the most ridiculous statement...

I don't think it's ridiculous. Doesn't scum Godfather ash have some concern that town!sudgy investigates his partner, and roleblock him anyway? It's unnecessarily risky play in my book.

Oh for clarification I agree with what you just said, if ash is a scum godfather, I doubt he...would have risked not blocking sudgy so if ash is scum sudgy has to be scum(or likely enough to just cross our fingers)

Okay in the middle of typing that I now understand what your saying, I still find you scummy for defending Faust but not nearly as much as before.

I think ash and sudgy are both town, no gambit.

Hah, okay, well at least you get what I am saying. You read sincere to me, although you're totally wrong.

[Witherweaver]

Two 1-shot vigs need at least 4 Vs. Which would mean one of sudgy, me, whoever claim would be lying.

You are right again.

I believe faust here.

I'm starting to question my sudgy read, although it was very convincing.

Looks to me like scum ash recognizing the ground is shifting against his faust case, and that he needs to do some anti-sudgy stuff in case we go that direction.

Vote: sudgy. If he's scum I'd say ashersky is also scum, if he's town, I think ashersky is definitively cleared. (Ash = Godfather would be horrible, let's just keep our fingers crossed against that.) This is a better lynch.

Rethinking, this makes even less sense.  If you want to lynch Sudgy to verify Ash's alignment, why not just lynch Ash?  I don't see the point in lynching Sudgy at all, and I find the scum narrative from the pre-lynch minutes near impossible to believe.

[Robz888]

Two 1-shot vigs need at least 4 Vs. Which would mean one of sudgy, me, whoever claim would be lying.

You are right again.

I believe faust here.

I'm starting to question my sudgy read, although it was very convincing.

Looks to me like scum ash recognizing the ground is shifting against his faust case, and that he needs to do some anti-sudgy stuff in case we go that direction.

Vote: sudgy. If he's scum I'd say ashersky is also scum, if he's town, I think ashersky is definitively cleared. (Ash = Godfather would be horrible, let's just keep our fingers crossed against that.) This is a better lynch.

Rethinking, this makes even less sense.  If you want to lynch Sudgy to verify Ash's alignment, why not just lynch Ash?  I don't see the point in lynching Sudgy at all, and I find the scum narrative from the pre-lynch minutes near impossible to believe.

Because if ash does indeed flip scum godfather, I will have no idea whether sudgy is scum.

If sudgy flips town, ash is town, if he flips scum, ash is scum.

[Robz888]

Let me know how many more times I have to explain this, please. Thanks

[mcmcsalot]

Let me know how many more times I have to explain this, please. Thanks

As many times as your scum partners need to ask to distract from how scummy you all are!

[Witherweaver]

Two 1-shot vigs need at least 4 Vs. Which would mean one of sudgy, me, whoever claim would be lying.

You are right again.

I believe faust here.

I'm starting to question my sudgy read, although it was very convincing.

Looks to me like scum ash recognizing the ground is shifting against his faust case, and that he needs to do some anti-sudgy stuff in case we go that direction.

Vote: sudgy. If he's scum I'd say ashersky is also scum, if he's town, I think ashersky is definitively cleared. (Ash = Godfather would be horrible, let's just keep our fingers crossed against that.) This is a better lynch.

Rethinking, this makes even less sense.  If you want to lynch Sudgy to verify Ash's alignment, why not just lynch Ash?  I don't see the point in lynching Sudgy at all, and I find the scum narrative from the pre-lynch minutes near impossible to believe.

Because if ash does indeed flip scum godfather, I will have no idea whether sudgy is scum.

If sudgy flips town, ash is town, if he flips scum, ash is scum.

That's not even true.  At all.  If Sudgy flips town, Ash can still be Godfather.  If Sudgy flips scum, he still could have given a true Town result on Ash to gain towncred.

[Witherweaver]

Let me know how many more times I have to explain this, please. Thanks

As many times as it takes to convince yourself that you're entirely wrong?

[chairs]

Two 1-shot vigs need at least 4 Vs. Which would mean one of sudgy, me, whoever claim would be lying.

You are right again.

I believe faust here.

I'm starting to question my sudgy read, although it was very convincing.

Looks to me like scum ash recognizing the ground is shifting against his faust case, and that he needs to do some anti-sudgy stuff in case we go that direction.

Vote: sudgy. If he's scum I'd say ashersky is also scum, if he's town, I think ashersky is definitively cleared. (Ash = Godfather would be horrible, let's just keep our fingers crossed against that.) This is a better lynch.

Rethinking, this makes even less sense.  If you want to lynch Sudgy to verify Ash's alignment, why not just lynch Ash?  I don't see the point in lynching Sudgy at all, and I find the scum narrative from the pre-lynch minutes near impossible to believe.

Because if ash does indeed flip scum godfather, I will have no idea whether sudgy is scum.

If sudgy flips town, ash is town, if he flips scum, ash is scum.

If sudgy flips town, ash could still be Godfather.  Ergo, town!sudgy != town!ash.  Conversely, scum!ash if he's not Godfather = scum!sudgy, which makes ash a better lynch choice than sudgy in this equation.

[scott_pilgrim]

SP, if you weren't the UB, I'd think you were the RB really wanting to claim.

It just doesn't happen that often.  I mean, compare this to a guilty cop result.  That would be a 2/10 chance (subtract the IC, Godfather, and Cop) to catch scum.  Roleblocking the scum who roleblocked is 1/10.  Neither is all that likely, and roleblocking half as unlikely as the other.

I understand that, but that's is why I think it needs to be discussed, because all of the explanations for what happened last night are really unlikely.  I know that it's only a 1/9 chance in a vacuum, but this isn't a vacuum, we know that scum didn't roleblock sudgy last night, and there has to be an explanation for that.  And since that explanation might help us catch scum, that's why I'm so stuck on this.

I think you could actually do some kind of Bayesian thing to figure this out.  Assign confidence values (just according to your intuition) to the probability sudgy is town, the probability ash is godfather times the probability scum would not RB if ash is godfather, etc., (all of those probabilities independently of everything else that's happened in the game), and then compare the probabilities in each case.

For me, I think it's like:
sudgy is town=92%
ash is godfather (10%)*scum would choose not to RB sudgy if ash is godfather (40%)=4%
Town RB'd the scum RB=1/9*chance of town RB existing=??% (I'm too lazy to figure out the chance of a town RB existing right now, especially since I think we can have 1-shot RB's and then I would have to account for the chance that they shot last night), but I'll say ~4% for that possibility.

Obviously I don't have any solid way of calculating the chance sudgy is town or the probability scum would choose not to RB sudgy if ash is godfather.  But if those numbers are reasonable, that's like a 50% chance sudgy is scum, 25% chance ash is godfather, and 25% chance a town RB RB'd a scum RB last night.  In the third case we catch scum by having the RB claim.  Or, if everyone claims "not RB (who targeted someone last night)", then we eliminate the third possibility, and then sudgy and/or ash pretty much have to be scum.

I think that analysis is simplifying the problem a bit, because maybe scum is trying to WIFOM us into concluding sudgy or ash must be scum, or that a RB targeted scum (which would be insane foresight, but maybe it's on par with all of those other low probabilities), or heck maybe they just missed the deadline.  Maybe we should just assume that last option is a possibility and not try to draw any conclusions from it...I don't know.  I just feel like there's something there, and we're missing it.

PPE: 7

[Robz888]

Two 1-shot vigs need at least 4 Vs. Which would mean one of sudgy, me, whoever claim would be lying.

You are right again.

I believe faust here.

I'm starting to question my sudgy read, although it was very convincing.

Looks to me like scum ash recognizing the ground is shifting against his faust case, and that he needs to do some anti-sudgy stuff in case we go that direction.

Vote: sudgy. If he's scum I'd say ashersky is also scum, if he's town, I think ashersky is definitively cleared. (Ash = Godfather would be horrible, let's just keep our fingers crossed against that.) This is a better lynch.

Rethinking, this makes even less sense.  If you want to lynch Sudgy to verify Ash's alignment, why not just lynch Ash?  I don't see the point in lynching Sudgy at all, and I find the scum narrative from the pre-lynch minutes near impossible to believe.

Because if ash does indeed flip scum godfather, I will have no idea whether sudgy is scum.

If sudgy flips town, ash is town, if he flips scum, ash is scum.

That's not even true.  At all.  If Sudgy flips town, Ash can still be Godfather.  If Sudgy flips scum, he still could have given a true Town result on Ash to gain towncred.

Oh, okay more times. Yes ash could be the godfather but that's a one in whatever chance, very small, less than a lot of other things, so I'm discounting it for now.

[Witherweaver]

Yet you're considering it for the case where Ash's alignment doesn't indicate Sudgy's:

Because if ash does indeed flip scum godfather, I will have no idea whether sudgy is scum.

If sudgy flips town, ash is town, if he flips scum, ash is scum.

It can't work one way and not the other.

[Robz888]

When someone has an innocent result on someone else, and they have no more shots, and that person is the generally more suspicious one, and you want to figure out what is going on between the two of them, you lynch that one.

[scott_pilgrim]

Sudgy is generally more suspicious than ashersky?

[ashersky]

Sudgy is generally more suspicious than ashersky?

He was the one about to be lynched on D1 and claimed to live.  So in this game, I think this is correct.

[ashersky]

I think we need to look at the how/why/when of these claims.

We are all ignoring the VT claim, too.  Scum knows two possible T configurations.  If they are worried of the 0 or 1 T config and the dangers of a counterclaim, VT could be the "safest."

Sudgy getting a result is clearly odd.  Did someone breadcrumb that would have been more likely?

1-shot Vig is a weird one to go with.  I think it's one of the easier ones to pass off as scum.  Scum can kill, so verifying it isn't impossible.

One thing all these claims are doing is dominating the discussion.

[Witherweaver]

Sudgy is generally more suspicious than ashersky?

He was the one about to be lynched on D1 and claimed to live.  So in this game, I think this is correct.

But you yourself started out the day saying Sudgy was basically an IC. 

[Witherweaver]

I think we need to look at the how/why/when of these claims.

We are all ignoring the VT claim, too.  Scum knows two possible T configurations.  If they are worried of the 0 or 1 T config and the dangers of a counterclaim, VT could be the "safest."

Sudgy getting a result is clearly odd.  Did someone breadcrumb that would have been more likely?

1-shot Vig is a weird one to go with.  I think it's one of the easier ones to pass off as scum.  Scum can kill, so verifying it isn't impossible.

One thing all these claims are doing is dominating the discussion.

I agree with this last statement. 

I'm kind of surprised no one had any real thoughts or additions to what I said about ADK.  His Day 1 play to me does not look like town ADK.

[ashersky]

Sudgy is generally more suspicious than ashersky?

He was the one about to be lynched on D1 and claimed to live.  So in this game, I think this is correct.

But you yourself started out the day saying Sudgy was basically an IC.

In line to board.

I felt strongly that his claim was true.  Circumstance dictates we take into consideration that I'm wrong.

He was very sincere seeming at the end of the day.  That last post is just too out of character for him.

If we want to lynch a claimed person, chairs makes more sense to me.

Or we can focus on unclaimed...there should be scum in that pool for sure.

[azadin]

Well I haven't checked in on this much over the weekend, but looks like I have a lot of catching up to do. I skimmed enough to know that for now, I will unvote. More thoughts/analysis as soon as I get the opportunity to write it all out.

[scott_pilgrim]

Sudgy is generally more suspicious than ashersky?

He was the one about to be lynched on D1 and claimed to live.  So in this game, I think this is correct.

On D1 sure, but this isn't D1 anymore, stuff has happened since then.  Particularly, a post at the end of D1 that makes sudgy look incredibly towny.

Obviously this wasn't directed at you since you know whether you are town.  I think a lot of us are confused as to why Robz is voting sudgy, and would like him to give an explanation other than "ash probably isn't the godfather, therefore sudgy is scum", since that totally ignores sudgy's super-towny post at the end of D1.

Although, I am also interested to hear what you think happened last night, because as far as I can tell, you don't agree with any of the explanations I've offered:
1. You're the godfather (obviously you won't agree with that)
2. Sudgy is scum (I think you've been saying sudgy is town all this time)
3. A town RB blocked the scum RB (you said earlier you think this is really unlikely)

So why do you think sudgy (claimed to have) got a result last night?

[ashersky]

I think it is either "sudgy is scum who fake claimed" or "scum took a huge risk."

There are few reasons to think scum doesn't roleblock there, unless they believed they picked up on a PR tell from someone else.

Anyone blocked last night could claim, I suppose.  Long shot, though.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I've thought about this for a bit and I think that if we're lynching out of the people who have claimed, I'm okay lynching Sudgy today. If he's telling the truth, well he's also used his shot, so he's just a VT now, and it gives us some info regarding ash's alignment and what scum did with the RB last night.

But, I think we're lynching out of people who haven't claimed, we should decide that soon and start discussing it. Deadline is coming up.  In that situation I would be very comfortable lynching WW. This looks like nervous scum to me:

Pretty sure everyone just throws me in on the scumlist automatically now.

He's made that kind of flippant comment as scum before, and he had an out of the blue "I'm-joking-but-not-really" comment on day one about me not saying he was scum yet. Looking over his posts it kind of seems like he's putting himself in the discussion just enough to seem present without actually driving it in a particular direction, which is something I've seen from him before. It's enough for me to

Vote: WW

[Witherweaver]

The problem with the reasoning "WW has done this as scum before, so he must be scum now," is that the statement "WW has done this as scum before" is equivalent to the statement "WW has done this while playing Mafia before".  I make a lot of flippant comments because I'm a person that makes flippant comments.  You can keep lynching me for acting like myself (yes, your track record is good), but eventually the coin flip is going to go the other way.

The comment

Looking over his posts it kind of seems like he's putting himself in the discussion just enough to seem present without actually driving it in a particular direction,

is interesting, because that's the same thing I was accusing you of.    I sense some OMGUS in this, and maybe a bit of trying to emulate town play?

[azadin]

But you are probably right.  I'd actually be open to a VT kill on purpose to help with POE.  Volunteer only, only really replaces the missing D1 lynch.

Killing off confirmed town helps with POE? You mean one of us who haven't already claimed anything? (So not chairs, even though he claimed VT already?) Because if you mean chairs or sudgy (who is basically VT now), then that doesn't really help with POE at all.

[azadin]

Looks to me like scum ash recognizing the ground is shifting against his faust case, and that he needs to do some anti-sudgy stuff in case we go that direction.

Vote: sudgy. If he's scum I'd say ashersky is also scum, if he's town, I think ashersky is definitively cleared. (Ash = Godfather would be horrible, let's just keep our fingers crossed against that.) This is a better lynch.

Not sure I agree with the sudgy vote here. If you are wondering whether ashersky is scum (though sudgy cleared him with his one shot), I'd say it's better to just lynch ashersky directly.

I know this was brought up, but I think the three most likely options are that 1) scum!sudgy is WIFOMing and is telling the truth about ashersky (that he's actually town); 2) town!sudgy is telling the truth and ashersky is actually town; 3) town!sudgy found ash the Godfather.

Of those 3, statistically, 2 is the most likely scenario. Occam's razor likes it the best too. If we take into account sudgy's extraordinarily towny behavior at the very tail end D1, I'd say scenario 2 is almost certainly correct. Assuming sudgy is town, then there is a 1/8 chance from my point of view (not me, not sudgy himself, not scott_pilgrim, and not Eevee out of the original 12) that ash is the grandfather. This is still very low.

For today, I am going to work under the assumption that both sudgy and ashersky are town, and we should find another lynch.

[azadin]

I was the major wagon, and the game was stalling. Plus, I most likely wont use my PR anyway, so why should I not claim? And it's the worst fakeclaim possible.

This may be true, but the fact that you point it out to us almost makes me think you are encouraging us to see past this as a possible scum maneuver. You may have picked the worst fake claim to specifically give us false town reads on you. It's a safe claim to make as either town OR scum, as other people have pointed out.

[azadin]

This is such a fake claim, robz is also scum and helping protect his partner, robz claiming we should just "hope ash isn't a godfather" is the most ridiculous statement...

I don't think it's ridiculous. Doesn't scum Godfather ash have some concern that town!sudgy investigates his partner, and roleblock him anyway? It's unnecessarily risky play in my book.

mcmc, are you talking about sudgy's claim being fake?

I already discussed my reasons for believing both ash and sudgy are town, and this is just another point for that. Seems like scum!ash and his scum team would not have taken the risk and roleblocked sudgy anyway. I'm still thinking about why they would do such a thing (not roleblock him)...doesn't really seem to be a good reason to NOT do so (I'm glad they didn't though! Gives us a lot to work with today)

[azadin]

This is such a fake claim, robz is also scum and helping protect his partner, robz claiming we should just "hope ash isn't a godfather" is the most ridiculous statement...

I don't think it's ridiculous. Doesn't scum Godfather ash have some concern that town!sudgy investigates his partner, and roleblock him anyway? It's unnecessarily risky play in my book.

Oh for clarification I agree with what you just said, if ash is a scum godfather, I doubt he...would have risked not blocking sudgy so if ash is scum sudgy has to be scum(or likely enough to just cross our fingers)

Okay in the middle of typing that I now understand what your saying, I still find you scummy for defending Faust but not nearly as much as before.

I think ash and sudgy are both town, no gambit.

I'm typing my thoughts as I read through the posts, and it looks like you are on the same line of thinking as me and you answered my above question. Disregard.

[mcmcsalot]

I do that too Azadin, simply confirms my town read on you.

[azadin]

I've thought about this for a bit and I think that if we're lynching out of the people who have claimed, I'm okay lynching Sudgy today. If he's telling the truth, well he's also used his shot, so he's just a VT now, and it gives us some info regarding ash's alignment and what scum did with the RB last night.

But, I think we're lynching out of people who haven't claimed, we should decide that soon and start discussing it. Deadline is coming up.  In that situation I would be very comfortable lynching WW. This looks like nervous scum to me:

Pretty sure everyone just throws me in on the scumlist automatically now.

He's made that kind of flippant comment as scum before, and he had an out of the blue "I'm-joking-but-not-really" comment on day one about me not saying he was scum yet. Looking over his posts it kind of seems like he's putting himself in the discussion just enough to seem present without actually driving it in a particular direction, which is something I've seen from him before. It's enough for me to

Vote: WW

As I was catching up, it occurred to me that everyone was fixated on the sudgy/ashersky interaction, and the faust case. We have 10 people remaining who aren't 100% confirmed (chairs, sudgy or faust could still technically be lying, though I find chairs and sudgy lying extremely unlikely). We've BARELY looked at EgorK (who appears to be absent for this whole day so far), mcmc, WW, ADK, Robz, and myself.

Let's assume chairs and sudgy are not lying, and that ash is not the godfather. This leaves faust, EgorK, mcmc, WW, ADK, and Robz as the possible scum (in my point of view). 3/6 scum. With the lack of a D1 lynch, scum is probably sitting pretty comfortably while we debate about who's lying, who's not, etc. Where is EgorK? From my perspective, it's 50% likely that he's scum assuming Occam's razor for the rest of the claims.

Granted, that reasoning means I could randomly pick any of those 6, but EgorK has been suspiciously lurky. I'm still willing to move my vote to any of them provided a good case. It's hard for me to get on board with cases based purely on "this isn't how they usually act" because I don't have that context. Logical slips, though, yes. Lurking, yes.

Vote: EgorK

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.4

faust (2) : mcmcsalot, sudgy
A Drowned Kernel (2) : Witherweaver, Robz888
ashersky (1) : faust
EgorK (1) : azadin
Witherweaver (1) : A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (4): EgorK, scott_pilgrim, ashersky, chairs

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 07:00 PM on July 16. That's in about 36 hours.

[faust]

In order to resolve ash/sudgy, I think an ash flip is actually more informative.

If we lynch sudgy, he either flips town Cop or scum. If he flips scum, well, we have no idea if he faked a result on a scum partner or on town. If he's town, ash can still be GF.

If we lynch ashersky, he flips town or scum, and if scum, either GF or not GF. And here's the thing: If ash flips scum, and not GF, we know that sudgy is lying.

[ashersky]

In order to resolve ash/sudgy, I think an ash flip is actually more informative.

If we lynch sudgy, he either flips town Cop or scum. If he flips scum, well, we have no idea if he faked a result on a scum partner or on town. If he's town, ash can still be GF.

If we lynch ashersky, he flips town or scum, and if scum, either GF or not GF. And here's the thing: If ash flips scum, and not GF, we know that sudgy is lying.

When I flip town, you learn nothing about sudgy.  You forgot that part.

You could shoot one of us (preferably him) tonight.

[A Drowned Kernel]

...

Vote: EgorK

Snipped the quote to avoid messiness. It's worth noting that EgorK has posted that he'll be absent in the VLA thread. But I'm glad someone is giving attention to something other than Sudgy/Ashersky.

[azadin]

Ah, I must have missed that post.

[Witherweaver]

I was the major wagon, and the game was stalling. Plus, I most likely wont use my PR anyway, so why should I not claim? And it's the worst fakeclaim possible.

This may be true, but the fact that you point it out to us almost makes me think you are encouraging us to see past this as a possible scum maneuver. You may have picked the worst fake claim to specifically give us false town reads on you. It's a safe claim to make as either town OR scum, as other people have pointed out.

I'm not sure what you mean by "It's a safe claim to make as either town OR scum".. what is a town safe claim?

[azadin]

This may be true, but the fact that you point it out to us almost makes me think you are encouraging us to see past this as a possible scum maneuver. You may have picked the worst fake claim to specifically give us false town reads on you. It's a safe claim to make as either town OR scum, as other people have pointed out.

I'm not sure what you mean by "It's a safe claim to make as either town OR scum".. what is a town safe claim?

Good point, my meaning was lost. All claims are safe town claims, but some are more "confirmable" than others. A safer town claim would be one that is harder/impossible for scum to fake claim.

[scott_pilgrim]

2. ashersky - null read, but probably town based on sudgy's result
3. Robz888 - I don't like the way he's been playing, but that doesn't make him scum.  Still probably lean slight scum on him
4. faust - I think his claim was null and I thought he was scummy before, so I'm inclined to try to lynch him today.  I'm not really sure why people backed off after his claim.  We would need a lot of other PR's to claim in order to "prove" he was lying, right?  And in that case, we just know that one of the claimed PR's is lying, not necessarily faust.
5. A Drowned Kernel - Reread him just now, I think he seems similar to his other scum games, staying back and playing it safe most of the time
6. sudgy - super town read, but it may be worth lynching him because we don't know what happened last night (and one of the only plausible explanations is that he's scum), but if it's between lynching ash and sudgy I would definitely prefer ash (but I don't think we should lynch either today)
7. scott_pilgrim - town
8. Witherweaver - null, maybe I need to reread him, I don't remember anything specific from him this game
9. EgorK - seems kind of lurky but I think he's usually that way?
10. chairs - moderate town
11. mcmcsalot - null
12. azadin - town

So that leaves Robz, faust, ADK, WW, EgorK, and mcmc as lynch candidates.  I think there's ~2.5 scum in that group (the other 0.5 being the chance that ash/sudgy or one of my town reads is scum).  I think faust is the best option for today, ADK would be my second choice.

vote: faust

[ashersky]

We do need to lynch someone.  Deadline is tomorrow.

I think a newbie is scum.

[faust]

Well, this game sucks. I seem unable to convince people of ashersky, so sudgy is the next best choice.

Vote: sudgy

And scott, I think your read on me is little else but delayed OMGUS. Really, what's the case? And you're wrong, only one PR would need to claim to call out my claim as fake.

[faust]

Request prod on EgorK

[ashersky]

This may be true, but the fact that you point it out to us almost makes me think you are encouraging us to see past this as a possible scum maneuver. You may have picked the worst fake claim to specifically give us false town reads on you. It's a safe claim to make as either town OR scum, as other people have pointed out.

I'm not sure what you mean by "It's a safe claim to make as either town OR scum".. what is a town safe claim?

Good point, my meaning was lost. All claims are safe town claims, but some are more "confirmable" than others. A safer town claim would be one that is harder/impossible for scum to fake claim.

vote: azadin

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.5

faust (3) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, scott_pilgrim
A Drowned Kernel (2) : Witherweaver, Robz888
EgorK (1) : azadin
Witherweaver (1) : A Drowned Kernel
sudgy (1) : faust
azadin (1) : ashersky

Not Voting (2): EgorK, chairs

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 07:00 PM on July 16. That's in about 15 hours.

[Teproc]

Request prod on EgorK

Prod sent.

[EgorK]

Request prod on EgorK

Prod sent.

Yeah, sorry, on vacation now

Will try to catch up before deadline

[faust]

We do need to lynch someone.  Deadline is tomorrow.

I think a newbie is scum.

Why do you think that? I think newbie scum would be more involved than newbie town.

[faust]

If we don't lynch out of sudgy/ashersky, my top choices would be mcmc or ADK.

[ashersky]

We do need to lynch someone.  Deadline is tomorrow.

I think a newbie is scum.

Why do you think that? I think newbie scum would be more involved than newbie town.

I think a newbie scum would be afraid of saying the wrong thing.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm not going to be around for deadline. For lack of a better lynch, vote: azadin

[faust]

Vote: ADK

[azadin]

We do need to lynch someone.  Deadline is tomorrow.

I think a newbie is scum.

Why do you think that? I think newbie scum would be more involved than newbie town.

I think a newbie scum would be afraid of saying the wrong thing.

When was I afraid of saying the wrong thing? I've basically said everything that's popped into my head.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.6

faust (3) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, scott_pilgrim
A Drowned Kernel (3) : Witherweaver, Robz888, faust
azadin (2) : ashersky, A Drowned Kernel
EgorK (1) : azadin

Not Voting (2): EgorK, chairs

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 07:00 PM on July 16. That's in about 8 hours.

[mcmcsalot]

So yesterday we easily got wagons to l-1 and l-2 that sat around and they turned out to most likely be on town, today we have had a wagon on Faust  that was short lived and votes jumping all over the place, I'm assuming that means we were I scum. Seriously why have people backed off Faust...

[Witherweaver]

So yesterday we easily got wagons to l-1 and l-2 that sat around and they turned out to most likely be on town, today we have had a wagon on Faust  that was short lived and votes jumping all over the place, I'm assuming that means we were I scum. Seriously why have people backed off Faust...

I'm having trouble reading.. what does the voting pattern tell us?

[Witherweaver]

Faust seems more like towny Faust and ADK seems more like scummy ADK, so I think ADK is a better lynch.

[mcmcsalot]

So yesterday we easily got wagons to l-1 and l-2 that sat around and they turned out to most likely be on town, today we have had a wagon on Faust  that was short lived and votes jumping all over the place, I'm assuming that means we were I scum. Seriously why have people backed off Faust...

I'm having trouble reading.. what does the voting pattern tell us?

Voting patten says minimal votes and stagnate wagons D1 were on town, voting jumping short lived wagons D2 are on scum

[chairs]

vote: faust.  I think mcmc is on to something.

[mcmcsalot]

No way Adk is scum, at least one(likely 2 or 3) of robz, ww, and Faust are scum I don't see why they make a wagon on Adk I he's their partner.

[mcmcsalot]

Ash and Adk both vocalized willingness to vote Faust come back to it for the lynch

[Robz888]

Uh, I checked out of this game. Well, I don't know, I really think faust is not particularly guilty on any of the contradictory things said about him. I believe mcmc is sincere but entirely wrong.

I'm not really committed to ADK and don't remember why I am voting for him. Vote: Azadin ?

[azadin]

The wagon forming on me really odd...everyone basically has a giant question mark after it. Ash's argument makes no sense and ADK and Robz both just randomly picked me.

Considering I missed the VLA post from EgorK and I still find the faust case to be pretty good, I'm moving my vote back to him. Vote: faust This is L-1 if I counted correctly.

[Witherweaver]

No way Adk is scum, at least one(likely 2 or 3) of robz, ww, and Faust are scum I don't see why they make a wagon on Adk I he's their partner.

Unvote

This sounds like McMc being certain ADK is town, which town would not be of town, scum would not be of scum, but scum would be of town.  So I'm feeling more town towards ADK and

Vote: McMc

Likely partner is Robz or Faust (scum always likes to put one true read in a set of three "scum" reads), but Faust is more likely town than Robz is. 

[mcmcsalot]

No way Adk is scum, at least one(likely 2 or 3) of robz, ww, and Faust are scum I don't see why they make a wagon on Adk I he's their partner.

Unvote

This sounds like McMc being certain ADK is town, which town would not be of town, scum would not be of scum, but scum would be of town.  So I'm feeling more town towards ADK and

Vote: McMc

Likely partner is Robz or Faust (scum always likes to put one true read in a set of three "scum" reads), but Faust is more likely town than Robz is.

Valid reasoning however I hope you look at the big picture, I only have a town read on Adk because I have a scum read on everyone voting him, this is not a gut town read or anything.

Also I find hilarious because you find me scummy for having a town read where as you refused to see Faust as scummy when he had a town read on chairs while everyone else thought he was scum.

I really really think Faust, ww, and robz are the scum team.

[Witherweaver]

Faust never claimed to be absolutely sure that Chairs was town or that anyone else was scum.  If I recall, he argued that the case on Chairs was bad, and I certainly agreed with that; I said so myself.

The argument that Faust was scum for thinking that Chairs was town was not valid.  The difference here is that Faust simply had a town read (or a lack of a scum read), while you hold that there's no way ADK can be scum.

Your case for ADK being town is not a good one, and it looks more like bolstering up a fabricated read.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I got off work early. I really have no idea what's going on in this game and was trying to put my vote somewhere semi-useful.

I actually really like WW's point about mc though. Vote: mc. I'll be around on and off til deadline.

[scott_pilgrim]

Why is anyone voting azadin?  He isn't playing like newbie scum at all, remember that post D1 where he just said "I'm going to lurk".  There's literally no case on him, newbie town is generally afraid of saying the wrong thing too and I think azadin has not been that lurky anyway.

I agree with mcmc's wagon analysis, I think we should lynch faust and if he flips scum we have a lot of information to help us pinpoint his partners.  If we don't lynch faust we should lynch ADK.  If we don't lynch faust or ADK we should lynch someone who's not azadin.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.7

faust (5) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, scott_pilgrim, chairs, azadin  {L-1}
azadin (2) : ashersky, Robz888
mcmcsalot (2) : Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (1) : faust

Not Voting (1): EgorK

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 07:00 PM on July 16. That's in 75 minutes.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So hey, deadline's in an hour and fifteen minutes. Should we maybe lynch someone today?

[A Drowned Kernel]

PPE: Huh, faust is at L-1. That's not a terrible lynch?

[EgorK]

Anyone with strong opinion that faust is not scum? I'm not sure, but if this is the only option I'll hammer. I have bad feeling about azadin through

[EgorK]

Who is online by the way? We should know this to consider our options

[A Drowned Kernel]

There are people who think that but they don't seem to be around. Ashersky I think? He claimed 1-shot vig if you haven't been following closely.

[EgorK]

There are people who think that but they don't seem to be around. Ashersky I think? He claimed 1-shot vig if you haven't been following closely.

I read everything (through only once). That coaim ticks me off. Without it there is no strong case on faust, but this claim is really strange. Like now we are in "odd" situation, but this can change (nk not going through due to rb/doc or something), and unouted vig would be helpful then. Very strange

[EgorK]

I'll hammer when I finish my twitter feed if no one would provide any reason not to

[Witherweaver]

There are people who think that but they don't seem to be around. Ashersky I think? He claimed 1-shot vig if you haven't been following closely.

I read everything (through only once). That coaim ticks me off. Without it there is no strong case on faust, but this claim is really strange. Like now we are in "odd" situation, but this can change (nk not going through due to rb/doc or something), and unouted vig would be helpful then. Very strange

Hm, I hadn't actually considered that.  Also, Faust wouldn't know there isn't a full Vig (VVV) that could mess up the parity later. 

But does he really need to be unclaimed?  Unless you expect him to be killed tonight, but town!Faust might think sacrificing himself and letting the IC live is more important than being able to use his shot later.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Scum has a roleblocker to stop vig too, but they were surprisingly blase about not using it to stop the cop last night, if we believe sudgy.

[EgorK]

Oh well

vote: faust

[Teproc]

THREAD LOCKED

[Teproc]

Final Vote Count

faust (6) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, scott_pilgrim, chairs, azadin, EgorK 

azadin (2) : ashersky, Robz888
mcmcsalot (2) : Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (1) : faust

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

[Teproc]

Pretty soon they came to a conclusion : if they wanted to get out of this, they had to get rid of the traitors. Dar Adal was clearly not going to help, so they would have to do it themselves.
mcmcsalot was the first to say that David Estes, being in a position of power at the CIA, would be the most obvious mole for Abu Nazir. It also helped that mcmcsalot and Estes could never agree on anything. Eventually, most of them agreed that, despite his protestations, he must have been feeding info the whole time, and he was certainly ruthless enough to murder a child.

Egork decided to put an end to this thing and used the knife Dar Adal had given him in the night, slicing Estes' throat right open.

Pretty soon, some CIA guys and Dar Adal himself came in to take care of the body.

"This one was a killer, but not a traitor. Better luck next time !" he said with a smile, quickly shutting the door and the lights.

faust, aka David Estes, the Town One-Shot Vigilante has been lynched.

Night will last 48 hours, everyone is required to confirm by PM or by posting in their QT

[Teproc]

Still missing some confirmations...

[Teproc]

My laptop is apparently dead, you guys will have to wait for Andrew to show up, I'm sorry.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sorry for the delay, I'm phone posting.

scott_pilgrim (Mike Faber, the Universal Back-Up) the Innocent Child has been killed in the night.

THREAD UNLOCKED!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting (9) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, chairs, azadin, EgorK, ashersky, Robz888, Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernal

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[A Drowned Kernel]

This isn't going well. What do we do to get this game back on track?

[mcmcsalot]

good old fashio wagon analysis, I do not know how I was soo wrong on Faust

[sudgy]

One of the only big things interesting with the faust lynch, to me, was how much Robz opposed it.

[Robz888]

One of the only big things interesting with the faust lynch, to me, was how much Robz opposed it.

Yeah, and I was right. Maybe we should listen to me now. That's where you're going with this, right?

[Robz888]

My thought at this point, which has seemed to work in games past, and absolutely worked in Mafia 45, is to scrutinize the least scrutinized.

I believe mcmcsalot and azadin are the least scrutinized. But I have a town read on mcmc. Azadin, in addition to being under-scrutinized, and this is a newbie, and instinct tells me this team has a newbie.

Vote: Azadin has to be correct, right?

[ashersky]

My thought at this point, which has seemed to work in games past, and absolutely worked in Mafia 45, is to scrutinize the least scrutinized.

I believe mcmcsalot and azadin are the least scrutinized. But I have a town read on mcmc. Azadin, in addition to being under-scrutinized, and this is a newbie, and instinct tells me this team has a newbie.

Vote: Azadin has to be correct, right?

vote: azadin was my idea yesterday.

[chairs]

vote: azadin.  Sounds legit.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 3.1

azadin (3) : Robz888, ashersky, chairs

Not Voting (6) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, azadin, EgorK, Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernal

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Are you basing the newbie idea on the NKs, Robz? Because I don't think much if any information can be gleaned by two IC kills.

[EgorK]

I wanteed to vote for azadin as well, but putting him at L-1 is a little bit early in the day - and I think scum would qh him as it will mean lylo for the remaining of the game (if azadin not scum). Hmm

[Robz888]

Are you basing the newbie idea on the NKs, Robz? Because I don't think much if any information can be gleaned by two IC kills.

No, I'm basing it on, I guess, the quietness of this game.

[Witherweaver]

My thought at this point, which has seemed to work in games past, and absolutely worked in Mafia 45, is to scrutinize the least scrutinized.

I believe mcmcsalot and azadin are the least scrutinized. But I have a town read on mcmc. Azadin, in addition to being under-scrutinized, and this is a newbie, and instinct tells me this team has a newbie.

Vote: Azadin has to be correct, right?

I mean, this would be somewhat convincing if I could look at this game and think, "Yeah, I get that feeling that scum team has a newbie. It seems that way."  But I have no idea why that would be.  There's got to be some kind of explanation other than "instinct". 

[Witherweaver]

Are you basing the newbie idea on the NKs, Robz? Because I don't think much if any information can be gleaned by two IC kills.

Well, if anything SP dying makes Azadin less likely to be scum. SP was defending Azadin hard core.. I know from being newbie scum 1000 times in a row, I really wanted to keep the people who thought I was town alive. (At least for the first few games, then I realized I should start moving it around.)  Though, there is the rest of the team to make the decision as well.   

[A Drowned Kernel]

It's hard to get any information about anyone's alignment from an IC dying because of course scum is going to kill the IC. I don't find azadin particularly towny right now but I'll definitely hear what he has to say before I'll vote for him.

[Witherweaver]

It's hard to get any information about anyone's alignment from an IC dying because of course scum is going to kill the IC. I don't find azadin particularly towny right now but I'll definitely hear what he has to say before I'll vote for him.

Right, it's just that that isn't always true.  Monster's University being the counterexample.

[sudgy]

One thing you could maybe figure out from the kills is that the mafia seem to not worry about Docs.  They maybe know the setup.

[mcmcsalot]

One thing you could maybe figure out from the kills is that the mafia seem to not worry about Docs.  They maybe know the setup.

This is a really good point, ash does full claiming do anything for us?

[azadin]

I guess I'm still confused about the case on me. I guess I understand that I haven't been scrutinized as much as some other people, but that does not make me scum. People also seem to be inclined to vote me because I'm a newbie. "An under scrutinized newbie has to be scum, right?"

I'm honestly surprised about the Faust flip. I really thought we had caught scum in a lie, there. I am going to go back and reread the past two days and offer my thoughts, because this game has me pretty confused now.

As for my wagon, does anyone have any actual reasons for thinking I'm scum? It's day 3 now, reads need to be based on more than lack of previous scrutiny and gut instinct. I don't feel like I have any actual reasons to comment on or reply to, here.

[Robz888]

It's day 3 now, reads need to be based on more than lack of previous scrutiny and gut instinct. I don't feel like I have any actual reasons to comment on or reply to, here.

Lack of previous scrutiny is a big one though, and it's a time-tested method of catching scum, alongside POE.

[Witherweaver]

Does not sound like newbie scum to me.

[A Drowned Kernel]

It's day 3 now, reads need to be based on more than lack of previous scrutiny and gut instinct. I don't feel like I have any actual reasons to comment on or reply to, here.

Lack of previous scrutiny is a big one though, and it's a time-tested method of catching scum, alongside POE.

Well if we're talking about people who haven't had much scrutiny this game, you're probably the highest up on that list, along with ash.

[ashersky]

It's day 3 now, reads need to be based on more than lack of previous scrutiny and gut instinct. I don't feel like I have any actual reasons to comment on or reply to, here.

Lack of previous scrutiny is a big one though, and it's a time-tested method of catching scum, alongside POE.

Well if we're talking about people who haven't had much scrutiny this game, you're probably the highest up on that list, along with ash.

We just don't get scrutiny this early, unless it's ALL the scrutiny.  That's just mafia with Robz/ash.

[Robz888]

It's day 3 now, reads need to be based on more than lack of previous scrutiny and gut instinct. I don't feel like I have any actual reasons to comment on or reply to, here.

Lack of previous scrutiny is a big one though, and it's a time-tested method of catching scum, alongside POE.

Well if we're talking about people who haven't had much scrutiny this game, you're probably the highest up on that list, along with ash.

True, but I'm town. And ash has a result in his favor.

[mcmcsalot]

It's day 3 now, reads need to be based on more than lack of previous scrutiny and gut instinct. I don't feel like I have any actual reasons to comment on or reply to, here.

Lack of previous scrutiny is a big one though, and it's a time-tested method of catching scum, alongside POE.

Well if we're talking about people who haven't had much scrutiny this game, you're probably the highest up on that list, along with ash.

Well I have been scrutinizing robz and saying he's scummy most of the game, however with the recent Faust flip, he is much less scummy.

[Robz888]

It's day 3 now, reads need to be based on more than lack of previous scrutiny and gut instinct. I don't feel like I have any actual reasons to comment on or reply to, here.

Lack of previous scrutiny is a big one though, and it's a time-tested method of catching scum, alongside POE.

Well if we're talking about people who haven't had much scrutiny this game, you're probably the highest up on that list, along with ash.

Well I have been scrutinizing robz and saying he's scummy most of the game, however with the recent Faust flip, he is much less scummy.

I don't understand how you're arriving a this conclusion, actually. Why is that? Because I defended faust?

[mcmcsalot]

It's day 3 now, reads need to be based on more than lack of previous scrutiny and gut instinct. I don't feel like I have any actual reasons to comment on or reply to, here.

Lack of previous scrutiny is a big one though, and it's a time-tested method of catching scum, alongside POE.

Well if we're talking about people who haven't had much scrutiny this game, you're probably the highest up on that list, along with ash.

Well I have been scrutinizing robz and saying he's scummy most of the game, however with the recent Faust flip, he is much less scummy.

I don't understand how you're arriving a this conclusion, actually. Why is that? Because I defended faust?

Yes, my scum read on you was largely due to how strongly you defended Faust whom I was certain was scum...and I was wrong

[mcmcsalot]

Final Vote Count

faust (6) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, scott_pilgrim, chairs, azadin, EgorK 

azadin (2) : ashersky, Robz888
mcmcsalot (2) : Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (1) : faust

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

[mcmcsalot]

Final Vote Count

sudgy (5): A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, azadin, ashersky, EgorK
scott_pilgrim (4): faust, Witherweaver, chairs, Eevee
chairs (3) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, scott_pilgrim

With 12 alive, it would have taken 7 to lynch.

No one is lynched. Night will last 48 hours, everyone is required to confirm by PM or by posting in their QT

[Teproc]

Vote Count 3.2

azadin (3) : Robz888, ashersky, chairs

Not Voting (6) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, azadin, EgorK, Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernal

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 3 ends at 7PM on July 25.

[Robz888]

It's day 3 now, reads need to be based on more than lack of previous scrutiny and gut instinct. I don't feel like I have any actual reasons to comment on or reply to, here.

Lack of previous scrutiny is a big one though, and it's a time-tested method of catching scum, alongside POE.

Well if we're talking about people who haven't had much scrutiny this game, you're probably the highest up on that list, along with ash.

Well I have been scrutinizing robz and saying he's scummy most of the game, however with the recent Faust flip, he is much less scummy.

I don't understand how you're arriving a this conclusion, actually. Why is that? Because I defended faust?

Yes, my scum read on you was largely due to how strongly you defended Faust whom I was certain was scum...and I was wrong

Right. Well, that's correct, nevertheless I think it's kind of scummy of you to think that my correct read on faust makes me townie. I would expect--I am used to this and have seen this over and over again--town people reacting to my proven-correct reads by thinking I am scum. Compare with sudgy:

One of the only big things interesting with the faust lynch, to me, was how much Robz opposed it.

Who was not explained this statement, but I thought implied that he was suspicious of my correct read. If so, he's wrong and you're right, but his is the reaction that I usually see from town. Not yours.

[ashersky]

I think we should lynch on wagon.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I think we should lynch on wagon.

EgorK is pretty high on my list.

[EgorK]

Hi!

Back from the vacation, I'll had to do reread. Meanwhile, ADK, is it gut read or there is something substantional behind it?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Mostly gut. I feel like the whole "escaped attention" thing applies as much to you as to azadin, and I realize that's not a huge thing to go on but it is how I got caught in Greater Idea.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 3.3

azadin (3) : Robz888, ashersky, chairs

Not Voting (6) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, azadin, EgorK, Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 3 ends at 7PM on July 25.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So I wasn't convinced before but the deafening silence here makes think that azadin is actually very likely to be scum. And something needs to happen here, for christ's sake.

vote: azadin this is L-1

[Robz888]

It is weirdly quiet.

[mcmcsalot]

It is weirdly quiet.

What's your guess for azadin's partners(if your okay with answering that)

[mcmcsalot]

Also will potentially hammer sometime

[Witherweaver]

Sorry guys, the other game has gotten a bit... cumbersome.  I'll try to be more active here.

[Witherweaver]

I still really don't see why Azadin.. and I found it weird that his response to everyone voting him was largely ignored.  Does it really read like scum to you guys?

[Robz888]

Also will potentially hammer sometime

NO not before claim.

[Robz888]

It is weirdly quiet.

What's your guess for azadin's partners(if your okay with answering that)

Two of WW, Egork, ADK, you.

[Witherweaver]

It is weirdly quiet.

What's your guess for azadin's partners(if your okay with answering that)

Two of Robz, Egork, ADK, you.

Fixed that for you!

[azadin]

This game has seriously gotten out of hand, no one has responded to why they're voting for me except the fact this game has stalled (which is NOT my fault, as your logic seems to imply). I merely asked for some explanation besides a "gut feeling" or my lack of previous scrutiny. How does the deafening silence convince you I'm scum? Please give me actual reasons, here!

I honestly don't know what I can do here except claim. I am a one shot Doctor. I have not used my shot yet. I wasn't really sure when the right time would be, and after D1, we were sure there was a scum strongman so I was trying to hold out until we at least found him. My shot will be a waste until he's gone, and my claim now makes my shot likely useless, since they have both a role blocker and a strongman.

At this point, I feel like Robz has had almost no scrutiny and seems to be targeting me for pretty terrible reasons. It also seems like he is trying to partner himself with ashersky, who I'm still going to assume is not the grandfather is actually town.

Vote: Robz888

[Robz888]

^Is this not textbook scum? A go-to scum claim, some minor incredulity and outrage, with a pivot disguised as OMGUS disguised as legitimate suspicion?

[Witherweaver]

^Is this not textbook scum? A go-to scum claim, some minor incredulity and outrage, with a pivot disguised as OMGUS disguised as legitimate suspicion?

Uh.. it's certainly not what I do.  Maybe I was never given that textbook..

[azadin]

Before you claim my vote is OMGUS, try giving me some actual evidence. I've asked for it so many times now and you keep avoiding my direct question.

[Robz888]

^Is this not textbook scum? A go-to scum claim, some minor incredulity and outrage, with a pivot disguised as OMGUS disguised as legitimate suspicion?

Uh.. it's certainly not what I do.  Maybe I was never given that textbook..

I'd think you'd be tapped to edit the next edition.

Uh, well, I think it's how a newish scum player reacts in a tough spot.

[Witherweaver]

^Is this not textbook scum? A go-to scum claim, some minor incredulity and outrage, with a pivot disguised as OMGUS disguised as legitimate suspicion?

Uh.. it's certainly not what I do.  Maybe I was never given that textbook..

I'd think you'd be tapped to edit the next edition.

Uh, well, I think it's how a newish scum player reacts in a tough spot.

Newish?  This is, like, first ever forum Mafia game for him, right?

[Robz888]

Before you claim my vote is OMGUS, try giving me some actual evidence. I've asked for it so many times now and you keep avoiding my direct question.

Okay, you are in a pool of people who could be scum, beyond a pool of people I believe claims of or think are unlikely to be scum. Ignoring the sugdy/ashersky question for now, which I've definitely cooled on, and mcmc who I thought was town although he just gave me pause with his recent statement, and chairs whose claim I believed, we are down to just a few people including you.

You, well, there was that early thing that I've never really let go of. Also, newbies usually scream town to me the longer they live, and you don't.

[EgorK]

Either all 3 scum are on wagon or azadin is scum, right? Otherwise scum already would hammer this

[Robz888]

^Is this not textbook scum? A go-to scum claim, some minor incredulity and outrage, with a pivot disguised as OMGUS disguised as legitimate suspicion?

Uh.. it's certainly not what I do.  Maybe I was never given that textbook..

I'd think you'd be tapped to edit the next edition.

Uh, well, I think it's how a newish scum player reacts in a tough spot.

Newish?  This is, like, first ever forum Mafia game for him, right?

Right. What I meant was, newish players, like brand new to newish, all sort of react like this, maybe.

[Robz888]

Either all 3 scum are on wagon or azadin is scum, right? Otherwise scum already would hammer this

False. We are not in LYLO. Scum don't automatically win by lynching town.

[EgorK]

Either all 3 scum are on wagon or azadin is scum, right? Otherwise scum already would hammer this

False. We are not in LYLO. Scum don't automatically win by lynching town.

Yes, but going into 4:3 lylo is rather good chances for scum

[EgorK]

My gut tells me to hammer, but if I am incorrect the game is basically done (as you would have to lynch me D4)

[mcmcsalot]

Either all 3 scum are on wagon or azadin is scum, right? Otherwise scum already would hammer this

False. We are not in LYLO. Scum don't automatically win by lynching town.

Yes, but going into 4:3 lylo is rather good chances for scum

And scum could have hammered at anytime. Now especially since I do no think ash and robz are both scum(this game is just not playing like a scum!ash/robz game)

I am pretty confident that Azadin is scum whic means I am pretty confident robz is town.

I need to check to see how this claim effects things though really doc should have used his shot on one of the 2 Ic's I find it hard to believe he didn't stop the Scott kill.

Intent to hammer

[mcmcsalot]

My gut tells me to hammer, but if I am incorrect the game is basically done (as you would have to lynch me D4)

Wait what? Wierd thinking, why would we have to lynch you?

[Robz888]

Either all 3 scum are on wagon or azadin is scum, right? Otherwise scum already would hammer this

False. We are not in LYLO. Scum don't automatically win by lynching town.

Yes, but going into 4:3 lylo is rather good chances for scum

Not if we know who one of them is because he quickhammered.

[azadin]

I didn't use my shot because I knew they had a strongman and I was hoping to hold out until we lynched him. It was likely a mistake and I will definitely remember that for future games.

[mcmcsalot]

Either all 3 scum are on wagon or azadin is scum, right? Otherwise scum already would hammer this

False. We are not in LYLO. Scum don't automatically win by lynching town.

Yes, but going into 4:3 lylo is rather good chances for scum

Not if we know who one of them is because he quickhammered.

It would not look like a quick hammer at all

[mcmcsalot]

Also ash your setup stinks...it's no help in solving anything!

[mcmcsalot]

I didn't use my shot because I knew they had a strongman and I was hoping to hold out until we lynched him. It was likely a mistake and I will definitely remember that for future games.

You did not know they had a strongman, 1-shot doc could be E, you knew we had EMM, plenty of T's left to make the team have no strongman...

[azadin]

I didn't use my shot because I knew they had a strongman and I was hoping to hold out until we lynched him. It was likely a mistake and I will definitely remember that for future games.

You did not know they had a strongman, 1-shot doc could be E, you knew we had EMM, plenty of T's left to make the team have no strongman...

Yes I did. We knew there was at least MM at the start of day 1. By day 2, sudgy's claim was believable (and if you go back and look, I believed it, and still do). That means at least 3 rolls non-T. Mine put it at 4, which guarantees scum a roleblocker and strongman.

[A Drowned Kernel]

This game has seriously gotten out of hand, no one has responded to why they're voting for me except the fact this game has stalled (which is NOT my fault, as your logic seems to imply). I merely asked for some explanation besides a "gut feeling" or my lack of previous scrutiny. How does the deafening silence convince you I'm scum? Please give me actual reasons, here!

It's not your fault per se, but the fact that the game has stalled so horrendously after a wagon formed on you makes me think that you're scum and your partners are hesitant to defend you or post much at all for fear of seeming scummy if you flip.

[azadin]

I feel like everyone is just sorta ignoring this game, which sucks that it's my first experience here. And now I'm at L-1 because I wasn't sure how to get the game moving again.

As I'm basically a VT now (scum has both role blocker AND strongman, so my one shot is useless), I guess I made a mistake even claiming my PR because it doesn't help anyone but scum. Just realized this. Sigh, I guess I'm learning a lot at least.

[Robz888]

No, claiming is not a mistake. I don't believe your claim, though.

[EgorK]

My gut tells me to hammer, but if I am incorrect the game is basically done (as you would have to lynch me D4)

Wait what? Wierd thinking, why would we have to lynch you?

As policy to avoid qhs?

Anyway to the hell with this. Vote:EgorK

[EgorK]

Lol. Really need more vacation. vote:azadin

[mcmcsalot]

My gut tells me to hammer, but if I am incorrect the game is basically done (as you would have to lynch me D4)

Wait what? Wierd thinking, why would we have to lynch you?

As policy to avoid qhs?

Anyway to the hell with this. Vote:EgorK

Legitimate scum slip?

[Witherweaver]

I don't understand it.

[Teproc]

THREAD LOCKED

[Teproc]

Day 3 Final Vote Count

azadin (5) : Robz888, ashersky, chairs, A Drowned Kernel, EgorK

Robz888 (1) : azadin
Not Voting (3) : mcmcsalot, sudgy, Witherweaver

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

[Teproc]

Will add flavor later

azadin, aka Peter Quinn, the Mafia Roleblocker has been lynched.

Night will last 48 hours, everyone is required to confirm by PM or by posting in their QT

[Teproc]

When they woke up, they found Carrie crying in a corner.
"What's the matter ?", Jessica asked.
"It's Saul... he's ... he's gone..."

ashersky (Saul Berenson, the Vanilla Townie) has been killed in the night.

Day 4 starts now !

[Teproc]

Vote Count 4.0


Not Voting (7): A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, EgorK, Witherweaver, chairs, mcmcsalot, sudgy

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 4 ends at 05:00 PM on August 1

[chairs]

Well, mcmc just got more Towny to me.

[Witherweaver]

Well, mcmc just got more Towny to me.

Hm, this is a good point.  I don't think he would be questioning his partner's claim like that.

I don't think Robz would be tunneling like that, either.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yeah, I think we can pretty much POE this.

vote: WW

[Witherweaver]

Hm, this wagon analysis is confusing.  Sudgy scum is unlikely.. McMc didn't seem a whole lot like a partner.. would both scum bus Azadin?  Maybe.. the whole thing blew up kind of quickly.  It's possible a partner got on earlyish and there was never a time to get off.  But Ash was town.. this points to Chairs as the early partner, or in some obscure case Robz.  EgorK would make the most sense for the other partner.. possibly ADK, but ADK put him at L-1, and I think at that point ADK had the opportunity to pursue another lynch  if he wanted to.

PPE: 1

[Witherweaver]

Yeah, I think we can pretty much POE this.

vote: WW

Yeah, well.. looking at the votes I understand this.  I don't actually know what to say.. he really did not sound like scum to me.

[Robz888]

Everyone from now on, please like actually explain your comments. I have no idea what this means:

Well, mcmc just got more Towny to me.

Why do you think that?

I'm most suspicious of Egork. Egork, can you explain to me what happened at the end of the previous day? Your comments were confsuing.

[chairs]

Either all 3 scum are on wagon or azadin is scum, right? Otherwise scum already would hammer this

False. We are not in LYLO. Scum don't automatically win by lynching town.

Yes, but going into 4:3 lylo is rather good chances for scum

And scum could have hammered at anytime. Now especially since I do no think ash and robz are both scum(this game is just not playing like a scum!ash/robz game)

I am pretty confident that Azadin is scum whic means I am pretty confident robz is town.

I need to check to see how this claim effects things though really doc should have used his shot on one of the 2 Ic's I find it hard to believe he didn't stop the Scott kill.

Intent to hammer

Everyone from now on, please like actually explain your comments. I have no idea what this means:

Well, mcmc just got more Towny to me.

Why do you think that?

I'm most suspicious of Egork. Egork, can you explain to me what happened at the end of the previous day? Your comments were confsuing.

Robz: I think mcmc sounds pretty Towny because of this statement.  If I'm scum and I want to imply that one of (Ash, Robz) is scum, and I know one of my partners is getting lynched Today (and therefore we don't walk into Lylo Tomorrow), then I don't kill one of the two people I'm WIFOMing because of Tonight.

This actually also leans me slightly Town on you, because it seems like if mcmc is Town and weighing ash v robz, you'd rather (as scum) want to leave both alive so you can wifom your way to a potential ash mislynch rather than killing the person opposite you on his scale.

[mcmcsalot]

Yea I am thinking egork, ww, and adk are where the 2 remaining scum are, robz/sudgy/chairs are pretty towny.


vote: egork is almost definitely on wagon scum for the hammer.

Adk and ww are the only toss up, adk on lynch is town point for him.

[chairs]

The self vote on accident feels like a ploy to self hammer in resign which I can empathize with except egork wasn't in any lynch danger. This makes me think it was probably scum wanting to hammer for town credit. vote: egork

[Robz888]

The self vote on accident feels like a ploy to self hammer in resign which I can empathize with except egork wasn't in any lynch danger. This makes me think it was probably scum wanting to hammer for town credit. vote: egork

This is also what I thought but I wanted to hear it from him.

[sudgy]

I think scum bussed, mainly because me and a town read (mcmc) weren't voting for him.  I'll jump on Vote: EgorK based on this and my general scumread on him.

THIS IS L-1 (already).  While I'm fine with this day not being long, we at least need to hear from him, so nobody hammer yet.

[Robz888]

That's fine, but no more Egork votes until he speaks!

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'll vote for either EgorK or WW, I think they're both scum.

[EgorK]

Everyone from now on, please like actually explain your comments. I have no idea what this means:

Well, mcmc just got more Towny to me.

Why do you think that?

I'm most suspicious of Egork. Egork, can you explain to me what happened at the end of the previous day? Your comments were confsuing.

What exactly do you find confusing? Can you quote?

[sudgy]

Everyone from now on, please like actually explain your comments. I have no idea what this means:

Well, mcmc just got more Towny to me.

Why do you think that?

I'm most suspicious of Egork. Egork, can you explain to me what happened at the end of the previous day? Your comments were confsuing.

What exactly do you find confusing? Can you quote?

Do you have anything to say about your wagon?

[EgorK]

I clearly understand why hammering in that situatuion is null, but I do not see that as scummy

FWIW I am VT

And that self vote is more of a function writing from iPad dirivng home after workday than anything else

[EgorK]

Everyone from now on, please like actually explain your comments. I have no idea what this means:

Well, mcmc just got more Towny to me.

Why do you think that?

I'm most suspicious of Egork. Egork, can you explain to me what happened at the end of the previous day? Your comments were confsuing.

What exactly do you find confusing? Can you quote?

Do you have anything to say about your wagon?

I think sudgy and chairs are town. WW (through not on the wagon) strikes me as scum, but I need to do a reread to have firm tell. Others are null atm

[sudgy]

Everyone from now on, please like actually explain your comments. I have no idea what this means:

Well, mcmc just got more Towny to me.

Why do you think that?

I'm most suspicious of Egork. Egork, can you explain to me what happened at the end of the previous day? Your comments were confsuing.

What exactly do you find confusing? Can you quote?

Do you have anything to say about your wagon?

I think sudgy and chairs are town. WW (through not on the wagon) strikes me as scum, but I need to do a reread to have firm tell. Others are null atm

I mean, do you have a defense?

[EgorK]

Everyone from now on, please like actually explain your comments. I have no idea what this means:

Well, mcmc just got more Towny to me.

Why do you think that?

I'm most suspicious of Egork. Egork, can you explain to me what happened at the end of the previous day? Your comments were confsuing.

What exactly do you find confusing? Can you quote?

Do you have anything to say about your wagon?

I think sudgy and chairs are town. WW (through not on the wagon) strikes me as scum, but I need to do a reread to have firm tell. Others are null atm

I mean, do you have a defense?

Do I have a defence against what? If you find my hammer scummy, well, I had honest read on azadin, acted on it and it turned out to be correct. If prosecution has any other witnesses please call them to the stand

[EgorK]

This game just stalls again. What do you think about azadin's "sure there is strongman". If he meant full strongman, non 1shot one, there is probably at least one more pr (and I do not propose to claim here obviously)

[Witherweaver]

This game just stalls again. What do you think about azadin's "sure there is strongman". If he meant full strongman, non 1shot one, there is probably at least one more pr (and I do not propose to claim here obviously)

We have VT, meaning MM was rolled, one-shot Cop if Sudgy is telling the truth, meaning C|E is rolled, and one-shot Vig, meaning at least V was rolled.  So that's four non T's.  So that's a guaranteed Strongman.  If Sudgy is scum, Azadin would have had to say this, and if Sudgy is Town then they definitely do have a full Strongman.  I'm not sure there's much to read into there.

[EgorK]

Ok, I misread setup. Stupid me

[Teproc]

Vote Count 4.1


EgorK (3) : A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot, chairs  {L-1}

Not Voting (4): Robz888, EgorK, Witherweaver, sudgy

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 4 ends at 05:00 PM on August 1

[Witherweaver]

Vote Count 4.1


EgorK (3) : A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot, chairs  {L-1}

Not Voting (4): Robz888, EgorK, Witherweaver, sudgy

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 4 ends at 05:00 PM on August 1

Sudgy voted for EgorK.  ADK is voting for me, I think.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 4.1.5


EgorK (3) : mcmcsalot, chairs, sudgy  {L-1}
Witherweaver (1) : A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (3): Robz888, EgorK, Witherweaver

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 4 ends at 05:00 PM on August 1

Fixed, thanks WW.

[Witherweaver]

Hammering.

Vote: EgorK

[EgorK]

I would say WW is scum. Hope you'll still win it

[EgorK]

Also /tag for speccy

[Witherweaver]

I would say WW is scum. Hope you'll still win it

You're already hammered... does this mean that you're town?

[EgorK]

I would say WW is scum. Hope you'll still win it

You're already hammered... does this mean that you're town?

Yes quite obviously. And do not deny it, hammering like this is scummy as hell

[Witherweaver]

I would say WW is scum. Hope you'll still win it

You're already hammered... does this mean that you're town?

Yes quite obviously. And do not deny it, hammering like this is scummy as hell

Dammit.. I'm sorry, I'm really blowing this game.

Your post about the strongman really looked like you knew you were going down and were trying to get an idea if there were any more PRs left so your partner could plan ahead.

[EgorK]

I would say WW is scum. Hope you'll still win it

You're already hammered... does this mean that you're town?

Yes quite obviously. And do not deny it, hammering like this is scummy as hell

Dammit.. I'm sorry, I'm really blowing this game.

Your post about the strongman really looked like you knew you were going down and were trying to get an idea if there were any more PRs left so your partner could plan ahead.

If I would be scum I would have all that information at night and can discuss that in QT

[AndrewisFTTW]

THREAD LOCKED!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Final Vote Count


EgorK (4) : mcmcsalot, chairs, sudgy, Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1) : A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (2): Robz888, EgorK

With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.

[AndrewisFTTW]

EgorK has been lynched. He was Nicholas Brody, the Vanilla Townie.

Night 4 ends Monday July 28 at 3:00pm FT. Please send all night actions to Teproc and and/or check in by then.

[Teproc]

Still missing confirmations, don't forget to PM me/ post in your QT !

[Teproc]

The next day, they woke up and found out that Carrie had been taken away. While they had believed her to be truthful for a long time now, they were stilla  little relieved : things should be much calmer now...

sudgy (Carrie Mathisen, the Town One-Shot Cop) was killed in the night.

Day 5 starts now !

[Teproc]

Vote Count 5.0


Not Voting (5): A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, Witherweaver, chairs, mcmcsalot

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 ends at 2 PM on August 4

[mcmcsalot]

robz not being there at the end was towny to me, ww is obvi scum, I am pretty sure adk is the other one and they didnt want to be both on wagon

[Robz888]

robz not being there at the end was towny to me, ww is obvi scum, I am pretty sure adk is the other one and they didnt want to be both on wagon

Yes these are my thoughts pretty much. WW's has to be a scum hammer. He probably figured he was going down either way since he's virtually POEd, and took the opportunity to get one more mislynch while he had it, right?

It's WW, and I still don't think chairs is scum because of his Day 1 claim, leaving just you or ADK. Shoot, why couldn't it be you, though?

Any defense, WW?

[Robz888]

No votes right now please, I'm quite sure WW would self-hammer if given the opportunity.

[Witherweaver]

Look, EgorK looked really guilty.  I'm certainly not the only one that thought his Azadin hammer was a scum partner hammer, and everyone was voting for him or willing to vote for him.  Two players had already expressed willingness to vote for him after he was at L-1, and he didn't come up with anything like a reasonable defense.  He was also at L-1 for quite a while and things were stalling.

His post about trying to figure out the PRs looked like exactly what I said, he knew he was going down and was looking to see if he could get any hint of PRs.  Or maybe a weak effort to appear ignorant and construct a "town slip".. either way he didn't seem townie at all there. 

My biggest concern with the hammer was looking like I was EgorKs partner after he flipped scum.  I fully expected him to be scum, because I just didn't see any other scenario as likely.

[Robz888]

Look, EgorK looked really guilty.  I'm certainly not the only one that thought his Azadin hammer was a scum partner hammer, and everyone was voting for him or willing to vote for him.  Two players had already expressed willingness to vote for him after he was at L-1, and he didn't come up with anything like a reasonable defense.  He was also at L-1 for quite a while and things were stalling.

His post about trying to figure out the PRs looked like exactly what I said, he knew he was going down and was looking to see if he could get any hint of PRs.  Or maybe a weak effort to appear ignorant and construct a "town slip".. either way he didn't seem townie at all there. 

My biggest concern with the hammer was looking like I was EgorKs partner after he flipped scum.  I fully expected him to be scum, because I just didn't see any other scenario as likely.

I don't believe you. I think you took the chance to kill a townie. Who actually worries about "looking like X's partner," just argue you're NOT X's partner after the fact, if you're actually not. Only scum considers these things, actually.

Weak, weak justification. Is anyone persuaded by this?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I've been thinking about it and I'm actually coming around to the idea that WW is town. That somehow didn't look like a town hammer to me. And mc, how is robz not being around for the hammer towny? That's just a matter of not being online when WW decided to vote, I don't think I was online at the time either.

[Robz888]

I've been thinking about it and I'm actually coming around to the idea that WW is town. That somehow didn't look like a town hammer to me. And mc, how is robz not being around for the hammer towny? That's just a matter of not being online when WW decided to vote, I don't think I was online at the time either.

What, specifically, looked like a town hammer? It was far in advance of when I would have liked the hammer to happen--I would have wanted more of a discussion about, and (after the fact), for good reason, because it was a mislynch. I actually don't believe that town!WW would so carelessly cut short the day, and I REALLY don't believe it because he was concerned about looking like a partner--who cares about that, other than scum?

[Witherweaver]

I've been thinking about it and I'm actually coming around to the idea that WW is town. That somehow didn't look like a town hammer to me. And mc, how is robz not being around for the hammer towny? That's just a matter of not being online when WW decided to vote, I don't think I was online at the time either.

What, specifically, looked like a town hammer? It was far in advance of when I would have liked the hammer to happen--I would have wanted more of a discussion about, and (after the fact), for good reason, because it was a mislynch. I actually don't believe that town!WW would so carelessly cut short the day, and I REALLY don't believe it because he was concerned about looking like a partner--who cares about that, other than scum?

Because I was already set up by everyone to be EgorK's partner.  It was mentioned multiple times.  So me hammering just looks like scum partner jumping on for cred.  But then I realized that it didn't matter, because I was pretty sure EgorK would flip scum, and even if I were to get mislynched today for it, it would still be a 1-1 trade, so it seemed a good idea.

I may have jumped the gun, but what more did you want to discuss?  Three players had already voted for EgorK, and the only other players---you and ADK---had stated willingness to vote.  So, what was going to happen?  It was literally unanimous. 

[Robz888]

Well, obviously it was after the fact analysis, but it was a wrong lynch, so we should have discussed more and/o realized that was a bad lynch. We might have deduced that by talking more.

If your sole defense was "I was sure he was scum--I was wrong, so sue me. You were sure too!" I would find that more plausible. This partner concern defense is insincere. It's not towny to think that way.

[Witherweaver]

Well, obviously it was after the fact analysis, but it was a wrong lynch, so we should have discussed more and/o realized that was a bad lynch. We might have deduced that by talking more.

If your sole defense was "I was sure he was scum--I was wrong, so sue me. You were sure too!" I would find that more plausible. This partner concern defense is insincere. It's not towny to think that way.

I don't really know what you mean by "partner concern defense"... I'm not sure how it's a defense... I was just explaining what was going through my head.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm planning on a reread sometime soon but I'm starting to think that the whole "getting quiet" thing that worked for azadin might also apply to WW. And it's suspicious to me that while he's making a lot of defensive comments he doesn't seem concerned with actually figuring out who scum is.

[Robz888]

I'm planning on a reread sometime soon but I'm starting to think that the whole "getting quiet" thing that worked for azadin might also apply to WW. And it's suspicious to me that while he's making a lot of defensive comments he doesn't seem concerned with actually figuring out who scum is.

Valid.

Has chairs checked in yet? He is the most "IC" person left, so I would be pretty thrilled to get his take.

[chairs]

I've spent all day with family. How long do we have Today?

[Robz888]

I've spent all day with family. How long do we have Today?

Oh, still awhile. No rush.

[Witherweaver]

I'm planning on a reread sometime soon but I'm starting to think that the whole "getting quiet" thing that worked for azadin might also apply to WW. And it's suspicious to me that while he's making a lot of defensive comments he doesn't seem concerned with actually figuring out who scum is.

I don't understand why "getting quiet" would imply that I'm scum.. if anything, it should indicate that I'm not. Why would they worry about making noise or distracting anyone if I'm well on my way to getting lynched?

The thing about making a lot of defensive comments isn't really fair.. of course I'm making defensive comments, people are saying I'm obviously scum.  No one is making any great effort into figuring out who scum is.. it's just "WW hammered EgorK so he's clearly scum." 

When have you known me as scum not to be accusatory and make cases against people?  And if I were going to hammer EgorK as scum, why wouldn't I have some kind of backup plan?  I certainly wouldn't be just lost right now... that's silly play. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

If you're town, you know that half the other people alive right now are scum, but you don't seem to be commenting on other people's alignments at all. Your response to Robz hasn't been "you're probably scum" or "you're wrong, we need to be lynching this person," it's just "I'm town, please don't lynch me."

[Teproc]

Vote Count 5.1


Not Voting (5): A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, Witherweaver, chairs, mcmcsalot

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 ends at 2 PM on August 4

[Robz888]

If you're town, you know that half the other people alive right now are scum, but you don't seem to be commenting on other people's alignments at all. Your response to Robz hasn't been "you're probably scum" or "you're wrong, we need to be lynching this person," it's just "I'm town, please don't lynch me."

Agreed.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So I reread everything (skimming the parts that was people who are all now dead arguing with each other) and based on the way they talk to/about each other and to/about azadin, and on the deafening silence today, I think I'm as sure as I'll ever be that it's WW/mc.

[Robz888]

Maybe.

Still need to hear from chairs.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 5.2


Not Voting (5): A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, Witherweaver, chairs, mcmcsalot

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 ends at 2 PM on August 4

[chairs]

Argh.  As much as the oddsmaker in me wants to be like "But WW can't be scum EVERY game, can he?" he's really making me feel that way.  the WW/mcmc scumteam call seems reasonable here; trying to see if I can find an argument for other combinations.

WW: If you're town, throw me a bone and tell me who you think it is, give me some reasons.  I just don't see this game with you being town.  I could see mcmc not being your partner... but I can't see you being town.  Convince me otherwise.

[Witherweaver]

Sorry, I know I've been crap this game.  I just don't have a handle on it.  I will get something of substance here, I promise.. but right now I just have no clue who is what.

[mcmcsalot]

So just going to say Adk coming out almost defending ww and then dropping it entirely when robz shut him down and changing his attitude to being confident of a me/ww scum team had to be a little fishy to everyone.  It seems like Adk was trying to still be neutral and then he realized well robz and chairs are not going to get lynched and he has to push we/mcmc.

[chairs]

Heh, it's funny you say that, because I was pretty sold that scumteam is either you/ww OR adk/robz.  Other combinations don't make as much sense to me.  It's hard for me to read Robz, though 

[A Drowned Kernel]

So just going to say Adk coming out almost defending ww and then dropping it entirely when robz shut him down and changing his attitude to being confident of a me/ww scum team had to be a little fishy to everyone.  It seems like Adk was trying to still be neutral and then he realized well robz and chairs are not going to get lynched and he has to push we/mcmc.

Interesting that you waited until after I had named you as the probable partner to say that.

[mcmcsalot]

So just going to say Adk coming out almost defending ww and then dropping it entirely when robz shut him down and changing his attitude to being confident of a me/ww scum team had to be a little fishy to everyone.  It seems like Adk was trying to still be neutral and then he realized well robz and chairs are not going to get lynched and he has to push we/mcmc.

Interesting that you waited until after I had named you as the probable partner to say that.

Well technically it was you naming me as a partner that made your accusations more broad an thus less like one coherent line of thinking.

[mcmcsalot]

So chairs you have got me thinking, how confident are you in robz being town?

[Robz888]

So just going to say Adk coming out almost defending ww and then dropping it entirely when robz shut him down and changing his attitude to being confident of a me/ww scum team had to be a little fishy to everyone.  It seems like Adk was trying to still be neutral and then he realized well robz and chairs are not going to get lynched and he has to push we/mcmc.

Yes, I did notice this as well. Not looking forward to the choice I expect to have tomorrow.

[chairs]

Well, I think I have to...

vote: ADK.

[chairs]

For posterity: the fact that everything seems to be lining up for a robz/adk or ww/mc scumteam makes me feel like it might be robz/mc or adk/ww (because if I were scum in this situation, I'd be willing to sac a partner for the win here) and I think adk/ww are slightly more likely.

[Robz888]

I'm confused.

[Robz888]

You think ADK is MORE likely to be scum than WW?

[chairs]

I've been pondering this today, and yes, I think ADK is more likely to be scum than WW.

[chairs]

The fact that scum hasn't quickhammered is, in my mind, confirmation that I've nailed it.

[Robz888]

The fact that scum hasn't quickhammered is, in my mind, confirmation that I've nailed it.

Huh. You may be correct after all. You're right, there was ample time for a quickhammer.

I still think it's WW, though. But I guess it does have to be ADK because of the quickhammer argument. Well, ADK and WW then? Yeah, that jives.

Am I missing something?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 5.3


A Drowned Kernel (1) : chairs

Not Voting (4): A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, Witherweaver, mcmcsalot

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 ends at 2 PM on August 4

[mcmcsalot]

The fact that scum hasn't quickhammered is, in my mind, confirmation that I've nailed it.

Huh. You may be correct after all. You're right, there was ample time for a quickhammer.

I still think it's WW, though. But I guess it does have to be ADK because of the quickhammer argument. Well, ADK and WW then? Yeah, that jives.

Am I missing something?

Hurray for chairs solving everything?!? I think Adk/ww sounds fantastic

[mcmcsalot]

vote: adk

[mcmcsalot]

unvote

[mcmcsalot]

The rule of scum quickhammering would be for robz(or me) to post his agreement and then wait for their partner to post/vote and then hammer.

If the team is ww/robz he wouldn't quickhammering till we posted.

Has ww posted in between chairs vote and robz post?

[mcmcsalot]

Chairs explain quickly why robz/ww couldn't be the scum team or unvote!

[mcmcsalot]

Actually the fact that robz was untill a few posts ago "worried about me being scum" an now not freaking out the me and we could quickhammering if we were scum is really scaring me.

Please unvote chairs

[Robz888]

Calm yourself bro. We are both on, right now, and that's not happening and hasn't happened.

[Robz888]

Actually the fact that robz was untill a few posts ago "worried about me being scum" an now not freaking out the me and we could quickhammering if we were scum is really scaring me.

Please unvote chairs

That was until ADK became confirmed scum via lack of quickhammer.

[Robz888]

WW hasn't voted for ADK yet, because they are partners. It's the only explanation.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: ADK

your argument is invalid.

[mcmcsalot]

What, ww is not around as to my knowledge.

The fact the you were comfy lynching ww which makes sense because chairs would die and me and Adk already kinda drew battle lines would set you up for a win.

Now the swap to adk right away is even better for you, I have never seen you swap your decision so easily.

[Robz888]

Vote: ADK

And now you'll see he's scum.

[mcmcsalot]

Chairs unvote!!!! This is the quickhammering happening!

[Robz888]

What, ww is not around as to my knowledge.

The fact the you were comfy lynching ww which makes sense because chairs would die and me and Adk already kinda drew battle lines would set you up for a win.

Now the swap to adk right away is even better for you, I have never seen you swap your decision so easily.

ADK IS CONFIRMED SCUM.

[mcmcsalot]

Blegh we Should have lynched ww

[mcmcsalot]

I believe you are trolling me real hard

[Robz888]

Blegh we Should have lynched ww

Just lynch him tomorrow! Now I'm concerned YOU are ADK's partner.

[Robz888]

I believe you are trolling me real hard

Nope, I don't troll. Not trolling, promise.

[mcmcsalot]

I do not get why ww lynched his partner but I do not see you and adk as scumm at all, so ww is just wierd.

[Robz888]

I do not get why ww lynched his partner but I do not see you and adk as scumm at all, so ww is just wierd.

So chairs is going to die and you/me/WW are going to have the worst final day ever tomorrow, because now I'm really quite confused.

[mcmcsalot]

Blegh we Should have lynched ww

Just lynch him tomorrow! Now I'm concerned YOU are ADK's partner.

If me and Adk are partners I could happily lynch ww today or tomorow, no reason to make a big deal out of anything

[Robz888]

Blegh we Should have lynched ww

Just lynch him tomorrow! Now I'm concerned YOU are ADK's partner.

If me and Adk are partners I could happily lynch ww today or tomorow, no reason to make a big deal out of anything

You had no option to lynch WW. Chairs out of the blue went with ADK, putting you in a bind. Thus your vote/unvote in order to advance this case.

[Robz888]

I mean, I don't know, the alternative is you really analyzed this wrong and as a result totally muddied my WW certainty and that really sucks!

[mcmcsalot]

I do not get why ww lynched his partner but I do not see you and adk as scumm at all, so ww is just wierd.

So chairs is going to die and you/me/WW are going to have the worst final day ever tomorrow, because now I'm really quite confused.

We should have a very easy day lynching ww he was scummy today, he is still very scummy tomorow, chairs brave vet handed us Adk on a platter.

I was just panicky that the game would be ended by the potential ww/robz scum team.

[Robz888]

I do not get why ww lynched his partner but I do not see you and adk as scumm at all, so ww is just wierd.

So chairs is going to die and you/me/WW are going to have the worst final day ever tomorrow, because now I'm really quite confused.

We should have a very easy day lynching ww he was scummy today, he is still very scummy tomorow, chairs brave vet handed us Adk on a platter.

I was just panicky that the game would be ended by the potential ww/robz scum team.

Well, okay. There were hours for that to happen, though.

[mcmcsalot]

Blegh we Should have lynched ww

Just lynch him tomorrow! Now I'm concerned YOU are ADK's partner.

If me and Adk are partners I could happily lynch ww today or tomorow, no reason to make a big deal out of anything

You had no option to lynch WW. Chairs out of the blue went with ADK, putting you in a bind. Thus your vote/unvote in order to advance this case.

No, WW was the planned lynch for today, we even said don't vote him since he would likely self hammer. We were discussing who was ww's partner when chairs caught Adk wit the quickhammer argument.

As scum I just go along with it and lynch ww tomorow as previously planned for today.

Town mcmc freaked out that you and ww were scum and chairs had guessed wrong on Adk

Ppe: HOURS? it looked like 4 posts to me did not read time stamps...

[Witherweaver]

I didn't lynch my partner

[mcmcsalot]

Ohhh, 4 hours changes things... It just scared me since typically you post, the ww votes the you vote and that's wha happened. It's how scum typically does stuff. But sorry for freaking out.

If your legitimately concerned break down why I the world I would do that if me and Adk are scum together instead of just lynching Adk and then ww

[Robz888]

Blegh we Should have lynched ww

Just lynch him tomorrow! Now I'm concerned YOU are ADK's partner.

If me and Adk are partners I could happily lynch ww today or tomorow, no reason to make a big deal out of anything

You had no option to lynch WW. Chairs out of the blue went with ADK, putting you in a bind. Thus your vote/unvote in order to advance this case.

No, WW was the planned lynch for today, we even said don't vote him since he would likely self hammer. We were discussing who was ww's partner when chairs caught Adk wit the quickhammer argument.

As scum I just go along with it and lynch ww tomorow as previously planned for today.

Town mcmc freaked out that you and ww were scum and chairs had guessed wrong on Adk

Ppe: HOURS? it looked like 4 posts to me did not read time stamps...

Chairs created the ADK quickhammer scenario at 12:02. You had your panic attack at 3:48. That's four hours of the quickhammer not happening. I was online that entire time, and WW was on at least intermittently--I know, because I was looking for a you/WW quickhammer of ADK! It never came, which means ADK is scum.

Then you got weird.

[mcmcsalot]

Yup sorry for freaking out, it looked like a few posts/not that much time.

[mcmcsalot]

Do you at least see why I freaked out?

[Robz888]

Do you at least see why I freaked out?

The timing issues was everything. I didn't see why you were freaking out four hours later, but if you truly got that part wrong, I guess I understand.

[mcmcsalot]

Do you at least see why I freaked out?

The timing issues was everything. I didn't see why you were freaking out four hours later, but if you truly got that part wrong, I guess I understand.

I'm at work, it was between forum checking a for me and only a few posts apart.

[Witherweaver]

so we're waiting for flip?

[AndrewisFTTW]

THREAD LOCKED!

You'll have to wait for Teproc for the flip as I am busy.

[Teproc]

Final Vote Count


A Drowned Kernel (3) : chairs, Witherweaver, Robz888

Not Voting (2): A Drowned Kernel, mcmcsalot

With 5 alive, it took3 to lynch.

[Teproc]

Saul's death was clearly intepreted as meaning at least one of the traitors had to be someone from up top.
After some hesitation and a lot of looking each other in the eyes without saying anything, Dana finally broke the ice : "Ugh, it's obviously that creepy senator dude, all politicians are corrupt anywya so let's get rid of him !
After no one reacted, she added "See : if he were a good guy he would have been dead by now, so let's go."
With a smile, William Walden and Danny Galvez agreed, and helped her strangle him to death. ANd then they killed everyone else and went off, living happily ever after.

A Drowned Kernel, aka Andrew Lockhart, the Vanilla Townie has been lynched.


Mafia (azadin, Robz888 and Witherweaver) wins !

chairs (Dana Brody, the Vanilla Townie) and mcmcsalot (Jessica Brody, the Vanilla Townie) have been endgamed.

[Teproc]

Thread unlocked

Mod QT : http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/J69rEjEgahe

Scum QT : http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/E7mZavXsRJXg

Speccy : http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/eaKvyXE5SwXT

[2.71828.....]

I believe you are trolling me real hard

Nope, I don't troll. Not trolling, promise.

[Witherweaver]

Oh hai I won.

[Teproc]

Sorry for the delay guys.

MVP is Robz, although WW's hammer on EgorK was great scum play. He would know.

[Teproc]

Oh hai I won.

So... 8 scum games in a row, right ? Do you even know what telling the truth feels like anymore ?

[Hydrad]

It almost feels like the mods are purposely making ww scum at this point

[Robz888]

I believe you are trolling me real hard

Nope, I don't troll. Not trolling, promise.

I didn't think of it as trolling. It was necessary in case we were going to night, which I think would have happened if both mcmc and chairs were vigs. Unlikely, but possible.

[mcmcsalot]

at least i was right in sniffing out that slow roll quickhammer

[mcmcsalot]

no hard feelings to chairs though, had we not lynched adk today and gone through that ending I would never have caught on and would have lynched adk tomorow

[Robz888]

Oh hai I won.

Yay! So much scum so often.

Our biggest problem here was that there were a billion ICs. At one point, I'm like, who could even be scum? Just us, the scum. WW was so totally POEd. And I knew azadin couldn't survive the whole game. That meant I had to survive the whole game, so I decided to mega bus him. Hooray it worked!

Great play by WW and azadin as well.

Chairs made the wrong call, however, I was fairly confident that even lynching WW would have led to me winning vs. ADK and mcmc the next day. Would have been tense though.

[Teproc]

Come on Robz, I'm pretty sure you knew that was impossible in the setup. Anyway, congrats on another well-deserved scum win, the azadin bus worked perfectly.

BY the way : major thanks to Andrew for comodding, especially in the last few weeks where I was much less present than I should for various reasons.

[Witherweaver]

Funny story, my internet was down at work today so I was only checking stuff online, every once and a while checking in on this game.  I 100% missed Chairs vote for ADK.  I saw him post the thing about thinking ADK was more likely scum than me, but didn't see the vote post itself.  I was totally confused when everyone was talking about quickhammer.  Then I was like.. wow.. I should have been there to vote.  Funny that me missing it ended up "confirming" that ADK was scum.

[Witherweaver]

Come on Robz, I'm pretty sure you knew that was impossible in the setup. Anyway, congrats on another well-deserved scum win, the azadin bus worked perfectly.

BY the way : major thanks to Andrew for comodding, especially in the last few weeks where I was much less present than I should for various reasons.

We didn't know 100%.  There *COULD* have been one more PR.

[Witherweaver]

Oh hai I won.

So... 8 scum games in a row, right ? Do you even know what telling the truth feels like anymore ?

I was telling the truth there when I said I won!

And also when I said I didn't lynch my partner.

[Teproc]

You'd need two more PRs. If there's a vig and he shoots scum, well you also get to kill someone so it's 1v1.

[Witherweaver]

From speccy:

"Because I was already set up by everyone to be EgorK's partner. It was mentioned multiple times. So me hammering just looks like scum partner jumping on for cred. But then I realized that it didn't matter, because I was pretty sure EgorK would flip scum, and even if I were to get mislynched today for it, it would still be a 1-1 trade, so it seemed a good idea.

I may have jumped the gun, but what more did you want to discuss? Three players had already voted for EgorK, and the only other players---you and ADK---had stated willingness to vote. So, what was going to happen? It was literally unanimous."

This post seems like a serious scumslip to me -- am I confused? How is it a 1-1 trade if EgorK flips town.

Here I was pretending to think that I was almost 100% sure EgorK was scum, but I was going to get lynched tomorrow because everyone would think I was hammering my scum partner for cred.

[2.71828.....]

You'd need two more PRs. If there's a vig and he shoots scum, well you also get to kill someone so it's 1v1.

In which case the game would be a tie if it is town vig vs mafia? 

[chairs]

What drives me nuts is that part of me was sold Robz was scum...

but I just didn't picture WW/Robz.  It was WW/ADK or WW/mc or Robz/mc, and since I had a pretty good feeling on mc I was ruling Robz out as well.

[Teproc]

You'd need a full vig to make it a tie, and I don't think that was possible given the flips.

What does everyone think about UB inheriting IC ? It pretty much neutralized the UB here, because he's pretty much already an IC as that's basically impossible to counterclaim.

[Witherweaver]

Pretty sure after this game I'm going to start getting Day 1 lynched.

[Witherweaver]

From speccy:

"Because I was already set up by everyone to be EgorK's partner. It was mentioned multiple times. So me hammering just looks like scum partner jumping on for cred. But then I realized that it didn't matter, because I was pretty sure EgorK would flip scum, and even if I were to get mislynched today for it, it would still be a 1-1 trade, so it seemed a good idea.

I may have jumped the gun, but what more did you want to discuss? Three players had already voted for EgorK, and the only other players---you and ADK---had stated willingness to vote. So, what was going to happen? It was literally unanimous."

This post seems like a serious scumslip to me -- am I confused? How is it a 1-1 trade if EgorK flips town.

Here I was pretending to think that I was almost 100% sure EgorK was scum, but I was going to get lynched tomorrow because everyone would think I was hammering my scum partner for cred.

Oh, the next post by him saw this.

[Witherweaver]

My biggest worry about hammering EgorK is I was basically saying "Okay I'm scum, lynch me tomorrow but my partner is still going to win," and for me to be that confident, my partner has to be the least likely person to get lynched.  So it heavily pointed to Robz, I think.

[chairs]

For me, mcmc was the person I was least likely to lynch... which unfortunately led to Robz becoming a suboptimal choice, and since I was SOLD you were scum, I wanted to make sure that Today we got your partner (so there wouldn't be confusion when, inevitably, you NK'd me).

I just misread, sorry guys

[mcmcsalot]

For me, mcmc was the person I was least likely to lynch... which unfortunately led to Robz becoming a suboptimal choice, and since I was SOLD you were scum, I wanted to make sure that Today we got your partner (so there wouldn't be confusion when, inevitably, you NK'd me).

I just misread, sorry guys

Like i said, I would have done the same thing tomorow

[2.71828.....]

I believe you are trolling me real hard

Nope, I don't troll. Not trolling, promise.

I didn't think of it as trolling. It was necessary in case we were going to night, which I think would have happened if both mcmc and chairs were vigs. Unlikely, but possible.

With all the roles that had already flipped I don't think town could have had a full vig, which is what they would have needed to tie (at best), but I wasn't trying to accuse you of being a troll.  I know that you do not troll, and yourself being a journalist I would think you probably have a pretty low opinion of people who do.  However, if I were to ever troll someone, it would be my brother, and I would totally troll him for fun at the end of a game if he were to be online and posting at the same time.  Which is what I thought could have happened, which is why I found it so funny.

[Witherweaver]

I actually thought Robz was trolling.  I didn't think about the vig possibilities.

[ashersky]

You'd need a full vig to make it a tie, and I don't think that was possible given the flips.

What does everyone think about UB inheriting IC ? It pretty much neutralized the UB here, because he's pretty much already an IC as that's basically impossible to counterclaim.

I built it into the setup that way.  The UB always existing helps town anyway, so sometimes he's not going to be "useful" with PRs.  He inherits empty shot roles, too.

[ashersky]

You'd need a full vig to make it a tie, and I don't think that was possible given the flips.

What does everyone think about UB inheriting IC ? It pretty much neutralized the UB here, because he's pretty much already an IC as that's basically impossible to counterclaim.

I built it into the setup that way.  The UB always existing helps town anyway, so sometimes he's not going to be "useful" with PRs.  He inherits empty shot roles, too.

I guess that's missing from the setup information?  But yeah, UB inherits IC.  If they inherited a 1-Shot Cop role with no shots remaining, they'd get the 1-Shot Cop PM, but with a caveat that "you have no shots remaining" or something.

[chairs]

So, once again this game confirms that I should just "trust my gut" and not even TRY to do reads, because at the end of the day my instinct is right more often than my reads.

[Robz888]

Initially, I miscounted in my head and thought even one Vig would mean we would have another day. I PMed Teproc something to this effect.

Then in the middle of my trolling I realized I had miscounted and was being way overly cautious. But, you know, it's fine to be careful.

[Witherweaver]

My heart started beating hard when I did my ADK vote though.. never coordinated a quickhammer like that.  And I was on my stupid phone so I had typed it into a text box early so I could copy it and not take forever.  Then I was just constantly refreshing waiting for Robz.

[A Drowned Kernel]

bleaaah I can't believe that happened while I was at work. Good job guys, I probably would have lynched mc tomorrow if we had lynched WW. My thought on Robz bussing azadin was "Robz is conniving but I don't think he's THAT conniving." I'll try not to make that mistake in the future.

[azadin]

Probably a good thing I was lynched a few days ago, as I've been super busy IRL.

Just caught up on the end of the game. That was a lot of fun! I definitely enjoyed my first foray into Mafia and look forward to more games.