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[Hugovj]

Well, another game:

Code: [Select]

Candlestick Maker, Scrying Pool, Scheme, Shanty Town, Baron, Ironworks, Scout, Margrave, Upgrade, Goons
This was the board. I hadn't played with about half of the cards before, so I try to figure out what to do. Buy a Goons, play it as often as possible with Scheme to hurt him, something like that. I get hit by Margrave about two thirds of my turns, he's drawing his entire deck, and think I'm in very bad shape. The stacks were getting low so I think: 'I'll give that a shot'. Deplete the Candlestick Makers, after that the Shanty Towns and Ironworks. I wait for a super turn in which he gets half the provinces or whatsoever, but that doesn't happen, and I end up winning. Did I play so well, or was his strategy just bad? Or a combination?

The log:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140418/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1397845246398.txt

[DG]

This is a scrying pool kingdom. Slowly build up with scrying pools and cheap actions, trash out the starting cards with upgrades, and at some point the deck will just come to life and become very powerful. Finish it off with goons and candlestickmakers for points and coin tokens.

[KingZog3]

This is a scrying pool kingdom. Slowly build up with scrying pools and cheap actions, trash out the starting cards with upgrades, and at some point the deck will just come to life and become very powerful. Finish it off with goons and candlestickmakers for points and coin tokens.

Exactly this. Also playing more than one Goons per turn is amazing. Every buy will then get you 2VP. Three Goons is better etc...

[silverspawn]

This is a scrying pool kingdom. Slowly build up with scrying pools and cheap actions, trash out the starting cards with upgrades, and at some point the deck will just come to life and become very powerful. Finish it off with goons and candlestickmakers for points and coin tokens.

Exactly this. Also playing more than one Goons per turn is amazing. Every buy will then get you 2VP. Three Goons is better etc...

yea, and playing multiple goons really isn't a problem here, once you have cleaned your deck of all junk (i.e. all non-action cards) it doesn't matter that shanty town doesn't draw, because one scrying pool is enough to put your entire deck into your hand.

[JacquesTheBard]

Shanty Town is the worst village in Dominion, but on this board, I'd be Necropolis for $3. Margrave isn't actually important here: Scheme a Scrying Pool, and draw your deck regardless.

[AndrewisFTTW]

There's a very powerful combo here in scrying pool and scout blah blah blah blah etc. etc.

[Hugovj]

Thanks for all the responses! I guess I've hugely underestimated Scrying Pool.. Well, hopefully I'll be more careful in the future

[qmech]

It's perhaps worth saying explicitly that Margrave is really, really bad here.  I'm going to be left with 3 cards in hand?  Thanks, there's Goons, I already knew that.  You draw 3 cards?  Great, but Scrying Pool draws all the cards.  You get a Buy?  What about Goons and Candlestickmaker isn't doing that for you already?

Margrave will actually help your opponent.  It's all about starting with a Scrying Pool, and if Schemes haven't worked out for whatever reason you're just letting your opponent look through more cards to find one.

[markusin]

Is there time for an Ironworks here? I feel like it's more critical to get the Scrying Pools and Upgrades, while Ironworks might cause the game to end too quickly, as in before the Double Goons turns come in.

[SCSN]

Is there time for an Ironworks here? I feel like it's more critical to get the Scrying Pools and Upgrades, while Ironworks might cause the game to end too quickly, as in before the Double Goons turns come in.

Definitely get an Ironworks on your second 4. It's true that it can cause the game to end quickly, but that's precisely why you want it: end-game control is good If you skip it while your opponent doesn't, he has a significant advantage.

[jonts26]

Is there time for an Ironworks here? I feel like it's more critical to get the Scrying Pools and Upgrades, while Ironworks might cause the game to end too quickly, as in before the Double Goons turns come in.

Definitely get an Ironworks on your second 4. It's true that it can cause the game to end quickly, but that's precisely why you want it: end-game control is good If you skip it while your opponent doesn't, he has a significant advantage.

Are you sure you don't want to open ironworks? You don't need a critical mass of scrying pools since there's scheme and it seems like it would be worth it to try to win on the shanty town split to play more goons. Also I would think getting an early upgrade would be more important so maybe open IW/CSM and youve got a good shot at upgrade if you use IW to pick up potion for $1.

[MarkowKette]

I completely  agree with jonts here.
The scrying pool doesnt help that much early on and you dont really need more than one with scheme (maybe two or three if you plan to pick up some coppers for extra early vp[ especially in the mirror where 3 piling can happen very fast])
I really think you can afford to wait for the SP until you have a few more actions in the deck and already thinned out some coppers/estates.
And as there are lots of different cards you want to pick up with ironworks i think opening IW over Potion gives you a significant advantage. Like jonts said early Upgrades are very important and the Potion can be picked up with IW at a good opportunity.

[DG]

There are a lot of cards you can get in this kingdom but nothing is important apart from scrying pool and upgrade. With those the rest come very quickly later. Getting schemes with ironworks is worse than getting schemes from upgrades.

[markusin]

There are a lot of cards you can get in this kingdom but nothing is important apart from scrying pool and upgrade. With those the rest come very quickly later. Getting schemes with ironworks is worse than getting schemes from upgrades.

This is what I was thinking, but the question for me is how best to get Upgrades while not getting too behind on engine pieces. I'm thinking CSM should be preferable to Silver at all stages of the game, except possible the opening 2 turns. What are all your thoughts on a Silver opening? My intuition is telling me that it'a not optimal.

[dondon151]

You would rather open Potion/CSM or IW/CSM because the coin token might help you get to $5.

[-Stef-]

I'd open Potion/Shanty town here.
Turn 3/4 gets me scrying pool and on $2/3/4/5 I'd get CM/CM/Ironworks/Upgrade.
I'd hope that's the last CM I buy for a while, from here on I'd prefer scheme.

I don't think opening Irownworks/CM has enough chance to hit $5 to justify delaying the potion here, and even if you hit it I'm not sure you're ahead.

Also I think Scrying Pools are important almost immediately, and this game will be really short if both players build the engine.
Ironworks for Ironworks, draw it and repeat means that pile is virtually gone as soon as the decks get clean, schemes will be out in no time and a 3rd one could be any of scrying pool, shanty town, candlestick maker.

[Powerman]

5/2 is Upgrade-CSM for me, 4/3 is Ironworks-CSM.  Not getting a SP until turn 6 or 7 isn't the end of the world, and either of those two openings should get you a pretty decent action density quickly.  And since provinces aren't important, you have a little more time.