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[Teproc]

What's the delayed IC announcements thing ? You only say who they are 12 hours in ?

[ashersky]

Is the name of the insect guys really the "formics" in English ? Ugh. I read them in French because my English wasn't good enough back then (I must have been 13 or something), I like the French name a lot better (Doryphores).

I think it works fine, although I might have had the ICs be authority figures. Or have the IC be Ender himself, the whole point is that his innocence is what allows him to get things right although I suppose that doesn't work with two ICs. I'm realizing now that I don't remember many details about the books, I should probably see the movie at some point.

Yeah, they call them Buggers first, then Formics more formally.  It comes from how they resemble ants (le formiche in Italian, for example).

The movie was good, not great, but I enjoyed it.

[Twistedarcher]

If you took away the vengekill and 1 of the ICs, would it be too hard for town? Probably...

[ashersky]

What's the delayed IC announcements thing ? You only say who they are 12 hours in ?

They decide when they want to be announced.

[Teproc]

Yeah I get the formic thing (ant = fourmi in French), it's way too on the nose for me, but that's probably because the connection is super obvious in French, whereas it's not in English.

[EFHW]

Is the name of the insect guys really the "formics" in English ? Ugh. I read them in French because my English wasn't good enough back then (I must have been 13 or something), I like the French name a lot better (Doryphores).

I think it works fine, although I might have had the ICs be authority figures. Or have the IC be Ender himself, the whole point is that his innocence is what allows him to get things right although I suppose that doesn't work with two ICs. I'm realizing now that I don't remember many details about the books, I should probably see the movie at some point.

Yeah, they call them Buggers first, then Formics more formally.  It comes from how they resemble ants (le formiche in Italian, for example).

The movie was good, not great, but I enjoyed it.

I don't like to see movies of books I've read.  They never match what I imagined well enough, and they have to leave so much out.  The only exception was the first book of Harry Potter.  That movie was really faithful to the book. 

[ashersky]

If you took away the vengekill and 1 of the ICs, would it be too hard for town? Probably...

Probably.

The VK is always an IC, because you don't want to remove a VT from the mislynch pool.  By adding a VT to the pool, you don't even need the VK.

At 3 v 4+1, you only need 2 mislynches anyway.  Hit scum D1, you are at 2 v 4+1 with 1/3 chance of hitting scum of 2 v 3+1 with a 2/3 chance of hitting scum.  You are really reducing town's chances there.

If you really think this setup favors town, this is definitely a nerf.  But man, that's a tough drop.

[EFHW]

I was so upset for Ender the first time I read the book.  That was terrible to trick him into genocide like that.

[ashersky]

Is the name of the insect guys really the "formics" in English ? Ugh. I read them in French because my English wasn't good enough back then (I must have been 13 or something), I like the French name a lot better (Doryphores).

I think it works fine, although I might have had the ICs be authority figures. Or have the IC be Ender himself, the whole point is that his innocence is what allows him to get things right although I suppose that doesn't work with two ICs. I'm realizing now that I don't remember many details about the books, I should probably see the movie at some point.

Yeah, they call them Buggers first, then Formics more formally.  It comes from how they resemble ants (le formiche in Italian, for example).

The movie was good, not great, but I enjoyed it.

I don't like to see movies of books I've read.  They never match what I imagined well enough, and they have to leave so much out.  The only exception was the first book of Harry Potter.  That movie was really faithful to the book.

You know, I was actually really happy with Fellowship of the Ring.  Didn't expect to be so content with the adaptation, but I was.

[ashersky]

I was so upset for Ender the first time I read the book.  That was terrible to trick him into genocide like that.

Understatement of the year.

[Teproc]

@EFHW : I used to think that (as a kid I worshipped Tolkien and only begrundgingly admitted that the movies were half-decent, and even then, what's up with those elves in Helm's Deep ?), but I guess I'm fine with it now. The problem I have with movie adaptations is they take away my imagination : I can't think of Harry/Ron/Hermione without seeing the actor's faces, which feels less personal than when you just imagine them yourselves, but I don't mind movies not being 100% faithful now.

[Twistedarcher]

Yeah, I don't know what else you could do though. Definitely make the IC delayed in that case. It's probably just too hard on town though.

[EFHW]

Is the name of the insect guys really the "formics" in English ? Ugh. I read them in French because my English wasn't good enough back then (I must have been 13 or something), I like the French name a lot better (Doryphores).

I think it works fine, although I might have had the ICs be authority figures. Or have the IC be Ender himself, the whole point is that his innocence is what allows him to get things right although I suppose that doesn't work with two ICs. I'm realizing now that I don't remember many details about the books, I should probably see the movie at some point.

Yeah, they call them Buggers first, then Formics more formally.  It comes from how they resemble ants (le formiche in Italian, for example).

The movie was good, not great, but I enjoyed it.

I don't like to see movies of books I've read.  They never match what I imagined well enough, and they have to leave so much out.  The only exception was the first book of Harry Potter.  That movie was really faithful to the book.

You know, I was actually really happy with Fellowship of the Ring.  Didn't expect to be so content with the adaptation, but I was.

I thought Frodo was too young looking.  Sam was perfect, though.

[EFHW]

@EFHW : I used to think that (as a kid I worshipped Tolkien and only begrundgingly admitted that the movies were half-decent, and even then, what's up with those elves in Helm's Deep ?), but I guess I'm fine with it now. The problem I have with movie adaptations is they take away my imagination : I can't think of Harry/Ron/Hermione without seeing the actor's faces, which feels less personal than when you just imagine them yourselves, but I don't mind movies not being 100% faithful now.

I feel the same way about the movie characters taking over your imagination.  I think that did happen with Harry Potter.  Luckily the actors were so well cast, they looked like I expected.  Not Lupin or Mr. Weasley, though, and I've gone back to my own pictures of them since.

[Teproc]

@EFHW : I used to think that (as a kid I worshipped Tolkien and only begrundgingly admitted that the movies were half-decent, and even then, what's up with those elves in Helm's Deep ?), but I guess I'm fine with it now. The problem I have with movie adaptations is they take away my imagination : I can't think of Harry/Ron/Hermione without seeing the actor's faces, which feels less personal than when you just imagine them yourselves, but I don't mind movies not being 100% faithful now.

I feel the same way about the movie characters taking over your imagination.  I think that did happen with Harry Potter.  Luckily the actors were so well cast, they looked like I expected.  Not Lupin or Mr. Weasley, though, and I've gone back to my own pictures of them since.

I have no idea how I thought of them before seeing the movies (I think I had read the first three when I saw the first movie), but I know movie!Snape looks nothing like I imagined him. He's great, but I kind of wish I could still remember that mental image.

[Archetype]

I love the setup but feel its very tilted towards town. They have a 50% chance of winning on random lynch and will likely do better than random.

I've run it 6 times and it's split 3/3.  Both times SFS ran it, the mafia won.

So it feels tilted, but remember:

--2 ICs have worse reads than everyone else mathematically
--daychat is strong, especially if they can coordinate hammers

Delayed IC announcements strengthens town too much.  ICs being Masons is basically delayed IC annoucements with extra chatting, which strengthens town too much.  Scum choosing ICs add too much politics to the game, I think.  Those have been modifications we've tried.

I think the original, which I didn't create of course, is still the best.  Could it be improved?  Probably.  We just haven't found out how yet.

I still like my Best Friends version. SFS ran it and scum ended up winning.

[Twistedarcher]

Wouldn't best friends just operate the same as hidden ICs? Scum can't counterclaim it...

[Voltaire]

Bwahaha, Another win for my "Seek IC status" strategy. Sorry, haters.

That's not why town won.

[Voltaire]

Very fun game to follow. Happy I ended up being right in the speccy about 2/3 scum (I had EFHW/nkirbit/Jimmmmm), but yuma was incredible.

Very surprised my gut-read "EFHW is so scum" was actually right for once. But I guess the odds say one should be eventually...

[Robz888]

Bwahaha, Another win for my "Seek IC status" strategy. Sorry, haters.

That's not why town won.

[Jimmmmm]

Very surprised my gut-read "EFHW is so scum" was actually right for once. But I guess the odds say one should be eventually...

Yeah, it's hard to evaluate how good reads etc are when half of the suspects are scum

[Archetype]

Wouldn't best friends just operate the same as hidden ICs? Scum can't counterclaim it...

Yeah, but they don't have to auto claim.

[ashersky]

Wouldn't best friends just operate the same as hidden ICs? Scum can't counterclaim it...

Yeah, but they don't have to auto claim.

Neither do hidden ICs.

The "problem" with alternate versions (delayed ICs, masons, best friends) is that they are all basically the same theme: town PRs that are confirmed town upon claiming because mafia can't risk the counterclaim.  So then it's just a game of timing the claim to see how people react to everyone.

I think we'd have to re-think the entire setup to come up with a better version.  Something that has no ICs or adds PRs to Mafia.  A silent mafia dayvig would be pretty amazing, if you could strengthen town enough.

[liopoil]

This setup is great! It's the only one we have that is exactly 50-50 balanced. Best friends, masons, or hidden ICs all make the game tilted towards town.

I love the setup but feel its very tilted towards town. They have a 50% chance of winning on random lynch and will likely do better than random.

Well, theoretically scum won't let town do better than random lynch.

[mail-mi]

Is the name of the insect guys really the "formics" in English ? Ugh. I read them in French because my English wasn't good enough back then (I must have been 13 or something), I like the French name a lot better (Doryphores).

I think it works fine, although I might have had the ICs be authority figures. Or have the IC be Ender himself, the whole point is that his innocence is what allows him to get things right although I suppose that doesn't work with two ICs. I'm realizing now that I don't remember many details about the books, I should probably see the movie at some point.

Yeah, they call them Buggers first, then Formics more formally.  It comes from how they resemble ants (le formiche in Italian, for example).

The movie was good, not great, but I enjoyed it.

I don't like to see movies of books I've read.  They never match what I imagined well enough, and they have to leave so much out.  The only exception was the first book of Harry Potter.  That movie was really faithful to the book.

Holes was good.