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Author Topic: What cards would you happily do without?  (Read 24967 times)

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NoMoreFun

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What cards would you happily do without?
« on: January 30, 2014, 06:41:18 am »
+1

A genie makes a deal with you: For every card you wish out of existence  a new card will be released.

Which existing dominion cards would you happily get rid of?
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Awaclus

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2014, 06:58:40 am »
+2

All of them! Except maybe Highway, Stonemason and Masterpiece.
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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 07:06:54 am »
0

All Alchemy Cards exept Apprentice without the Potion clause.
The Potion
Rebuild
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NoMoreFun

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2014, 07:41:28 am »
0

Chancellor, Thief, Adventurer, maybe Chapel (though it's hard to imagine dominion without it), Feast, Council Room (Soothsayer and Governor cover everything it does and it's not good or that interesting), Woodcutter, maybe Spy

Scout, Wishing Well, Saboteur, maybe Shanty Town

Treasure Map, Pearl Diver, maybe Navigator

Transmute, Possession

Goons, Royal Seal, maybe KC (I love it but it's kind of broken like rebuild and a pain in irl games. I wish it just said "reveal an action other than a kings court". You could still do crazy things with both it and throne room, just not in every game)

Maybe Tournament

IGG, maybe Duchess

Rebuild, Maybe Vagrant (it's much better than pearl diver but it's designed to be a nothing card)

Stash, Walled Village, maybe Envoy
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 02:37:12 pm by NoMoreFun »
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TheExpressicist

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 08:16:06 am »
0

Ill-Gotten Gains.

A.) In most* boards, it tends to be the dominant strategy.
B.) It requires very little skill to play.
C.) The mirror match is a coin flip.

In general I try to focus on playing people better than myself so that I can get better. So I'm always frustrated when I get an IGG board because there aren't too many learning opportunities. And I'm sure my opponents are frustrated too because we have the same odds (50:50) but they have more at stake (because of their higher ranking).

[edit] *I should say "many" rather than "most". Mostly boards with no effective early trashing.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 08:32:49 am by TheExpressicist »
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Jimmmmm

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GendoIkari

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 09:13:32 am »
+1

All Alchemy Cards exept Apprentice without the Potion clause.
The Potion
Rebuild

Keep the Potion clause! It will still work just perfectly and make the players wonder what cards might still be coming in the future every time they use it.
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Davio

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 09:31:24 am »
+6

Just gimme 205 new cards so I can have as much fun as I did in the beginning. :)
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markusin

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2014, 09:49:12 am »
0

Feast: Depends entirely on the board. Kinda lame anyway.
Woodcutter: In the Big-Money centric Base Set, all the other +buy cards are better, and Workshop has Gardens covered already.
Scout: Too inconsequential on way too many boards.
Mining Village: I don't care if it's Intrigue's main village. It's not worth the confusion it causes. I'll settle for Shanty town.
Transmute: Too weak on too many boards.
Alchemist: When I first saw this, I thought "Strictly better than Lab? Da Hell?". This particular cheat code card does all the work for you.
Loan: At least Lookout is sure to do its job early game. This can skip your action cards to hit your only Silver.
Trade Route: Really doesn't cover any new ground, and that forced trashing really makes it drag late-game when it's supposed to be better.
Peddler: I say that bottom effect should go on a card that isn't just a free addition to your deck, like a terminal perhaps.
Scheme: This cheat code card just barely passes because at $3 it's almost always an option. If it beats you down, you should have got some yourself.
Nomad Camp: Like woodcutter, except this encourages weird early game gambits that often work against you because of regular shuffle luck.
Urchin/Mercenary: I kinda like Mercenary, but it's too swingy when you get it early and your opponent doesn't, and it counters itself.
Wandering Minstrel: Sorry guys, but this card is as good as it looks, and it really does too much magic without much effort. Edit: Oh yeah, and the resolving time adds up IRL when you play multiples.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 09:56:48 am by markusin »
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Asper

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2014, 10:27:26 am »
0

Too lame:
Woodcutter (Nomad Camp is fine. Maybe that one for 3$ then?)
Scout (I like weak cards, but it is just so weak it is almost never worth buying...)
Spy (as it is a hardly-stacking attack terminals like Rabble or Oracle work better, anyway)
Thief (Noble Brigand is different, but as it is better on allmost all boards why not just go with it?)
Adventurer (too few times better than a terminal Gold)

Too dominant:
Rebuild (bleh)
Ill-Gotten Gains
Wharf
Jack of All Trades

Just annoying me:
Governor

Honestly the strong cards bother me much more than the weak ones.

Also i didn't name Chancellor because i've grown pretty attached to the card and still like buying it (if there are a few good nonterminals to make it reasonable). If Woodcutter as well as Chancellor would both be gone, i definitely wouldn't mind one of the new cards being just Chancellor with an additional buy.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 10:30:54 am by Asper »
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TrojH

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2014, 10:38:53 am »
+1

None. When it comes to game design, I trust Donald X. way more than I trust some random genie.  ;)

I'll keep the cards I've got, thank you very much.
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Asper

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2014, 10:57:07 am »
+6

None. When it comes to game design, I trust Donald X. way more than I trust some random genie.  ;)

I'll keep the cards I've got, thank you very much.

I think it's far more weird that of all the things a genie could grant me, i should wish for new Dominion cards...

Genie
Action, 4$
The player to your left makes three wishes. For each of his wishes, if it is for you to draw a card, fullfill it, otherwise +1 card.
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brokoli

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2014, 11:59:02 am »
0

I'm attached to all dominion cards... it's really hard to get rid of any of them.
But still I guess I wouldn't miss so much Witch, Mountebank, Minion, Woodcutter, Feast, Spy, Scout, Transmute, Rebuild, all promos and Alchemist.
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shark_bait

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2014, 12:58:16 pm »
+4



Because I could always think of a scenario to use a card I want them all  :D
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AdamH

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2014, 01:04:32 pm »
+1

Cards I would eliminate from Dominion, even if there was no replacement:

Black Market
Tournament
Knights

Cards I would only eliminate if another card would take its place:

Rebuild, and even then I'm not sure about this.

Cards that are too strong can still be pretty good as long as they're interactive (with other kingdom cards), and I'm not convinced that Rebuild isn't this way.

I mean, I really don't think eliminating cards because they're too weak or not relevant often enough is a good idea. One of my favorite things about Dominion is finding that situation where the more "humble" cards can be the star of the show. Nothing gives me more satisfaction than pulling off a win on the back of a card like Thief or Coppersmith or Rats (or Rats).

Without weak cards, then having strong cards doesn't mean anything, and you get power creep anyways.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 12:51:44 pm by AdamH »
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greatexpectations

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2014, 01:23:43 pm »
0

i have mentioned this on here before but one card that i think needs to go is masquerade. i think it is too strong for it's price point, it impacts far too many boards, it is highly luck dependent, and it can essentially act as an attack. the idea is cute but from a competitive dominion standpoint i really don't care for it.
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LastFootnote

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2014, 01:38:18 pm »
+1

With the exception of Rebuild, I think all Dominion's dud cards can be fixed. Rebuild should be replaced.
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Ozle

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2014, 01:41:23 pm »
+3

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NoMoreFun

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2014, 01:52:14 pm »
0

None. When it comes to game design, I trust Donald X. way more than I trust some random genie.  ;)

I'll keep the cards I've got, thank you very much.

With the dominion rules it's worth rolling the dice, especially with a few redundant and straight up bad cards.
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qmech

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2014, 01:59:46 pm »
+1

i have mentioned this on here before but one card that i think needs to go is masquerade. i think it is too strong for it's price point, it impacts far too many boards, it is highly luck dependent, and it can essentially act as an attack. the idea is cute but from a competitive dominion standpoint i really don't care for it.

Masquerade is masterful design!  Yes, it's powerful trashing, but you have to be careful not to overdo it else you risk passing good cards, so there's skill involved.  And when is it good enough to ignore junking attacks?

I doubt it was designed this way (I suspect you have "passing is fun, let's give you more choice about what to pass and let you trash anything you didn't want), but it's a great example of a self-limiting card.

*goes off to check Secret Histories*
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NoMoreFun

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2014, 02:01:33 pm »
0

With the exception of Rebuild, I think all Dominion's dud cards can be fixed. Rebuild should be replaced.

Some of them have been (eg chancellor and thief), but the originals remain.

Also if Mystic came out first, would you be happy to see Wishing Well? Some cards are good because they're basic and simple {vanilla village should exist, for example), but with those 2 they're the same complexity, one "works" and the other doesn't.
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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2014, 02:21:26 pm »
+1

Wishing Well is very different from Mystic, and I think it's supposed to be.  Wishing Well is supposed to be about probability/guessing based on the contents of your draw pile, while Mystic is supposed to be self-synergizing and mostly about knowing the top card of your deck.
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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2014, 02:26:58 pm »
+1

Also if Mystic came out first, would you be happy to see Wishing Well? Some cards are good because they're basic and simple {vanilla village should exist, for example), but with those 2 they're the same complexity, one "works" and the other doesn't.

It's not "one 'works' and the other doesn't"; it's one's strong enough to cost $5 and the other isn't. If Highway came out first, would you be happy to see Bridge?
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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2014, 02:33:19 pm »
+1

Top of my list would be Sea Hag. It's not very interesting mechanically, and it generally just slows the pace of the game to a crawl, particularly in multiplayer, but it's usually too strong to ignore, and adds a lot of early game variance in what cards get flipped. 
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NoMoreFun

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Re: What cards would you happily do without?
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2014, 02:47:04 pm »
0

Quote
It's not "one 'works' and the other doesn't"; it's one's strong enough to cost $5 and the other isn't. If Highway came out first, would you be happy to see Bridge?

They're pretty different uses of the same mechanic. I'd put bridge alongside Goons and Merchant Guild and Haggler, while Highway is better for combos.

Wishing Well and Mystic are both non terminals that are very good if you guess correctly, but Mystic actually has combos including with itself, while Wishing Well is much harder the combo out of what seems like bad design and is basically a harmless card that rewards luck, but it's the same price as Silver and can't fill the dubious pearl diver/vagrant niche.
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