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### AuthorTopic: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations out  (Read 5560 times)

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#### florrat

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##### Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations out
« on: January 28, 2014, 01:10:04 am »
+1

In a solitaire game, at the start of your turn, you have no cards in your duration area.

What is the maximum number of cards in your hand before you play your first card?

Hint: it's not 5.

Also, what's the minimum number of cards (assuming your deck consists of at least 10 cards)?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 12:01:05 pm by florrat »
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#### KingZog3

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2014, 01:19:01 am »
0

Outpost gives 3 cards in hand.

I cant think of any non-duration hand increase things.
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#### AJD

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2014, 01:26:04 am »
0

In a solitaire game, at the start of your turn, you have no cards in your duration area.

So, how many Wharves and Caravans have I Processioned, giving me their +cards while removing them from play?
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#### florrat

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2014, 01:43:35 am »
0

Outpost gives 3 cards in hand.
But Outpost is not allowed to be in the duration area...

So, how many Wharves and Caravans have I Processioned, giving me their +cards while removing them from play?
And how many Processions are in your duration area in that case?
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#### AJD

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 02:02:38 am »
+3

Outpost gives 3 cards in hand.
But Outpost is not allowed to be in the duration area...

So, how many Wharves and Caravans have I Processioned, giving me their +cards while removing them from play?
And how many Processions are in your duration area in that case?

None.

I'll start the bidding at +61 cards at the start of your turn, with no cards in your Duration area (i.e., in play):

Play a stack of 19 Processions. (10 of them are Bands of Misfits.) With these 19 Processions, play 10 Wharves (for +4 cards each), 8 Caravans (+2 each), and one Tactician (+5). 18 of the 19 Processions, and all the Duration cards, are trashed. The last Procession is not trashed, but it is discarded during cleanup because the card it was used on was not itself a Duration card.)

(is this the solution you had in mind?)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 02:04:08 am by AJD »
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 06:12:02 am »
+3

Solution for minimum:
1) Have a deck of 12 cards
2) Possess yourself
3) Play two Madmen to draw your entire deck, then play a Forge and trash everything.
4) Everything is set aside.
6) You draw Forge.
You begin your next turn with a deck of 10 cards with a single Forge in your hand.

EDIT: That smiley gets me every time.
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#### RTT

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 06:23:39 am »
0

Outpost gives 3 cards in hand.
But Outpost is not allowed to be in the duration area...

So, how many Wharves and Caravans have I Processioned, giving me their +cards while removing them from play?
And how many Processions are in your duration area in that case?

None.

I'll start the bidding at +61 cards at the start of your turn, with no cards in your Duration area (i.e., in play):

Play a stack of 19 Processions. (10 of them are Bands of Misfits.) With these 19 Processions, play 10 Wharves (for +4 cards each), 8 Caravans (+2 each), and one Tactician (+5). 18 of the 19 Processions, and all the Duration cards, are trashed. The last Procession is not trashed, but it is discarded during cleanup because the card it was used on was not itself a Duration card.)

(is this the solution you had in mind?)

24 more possible if you kingscourt some procession first and play the 2 remaining caravans and 10 havens.
Dont know if that is possible with all 10 but the number should go up a little.

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#### SirPeebles

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 07:20:02 am »
+4

I haven't read any spoilers yet.  This isn't some trick question where you Procession Durations, is it?  The title suggests no Durations are used, but then the post seems to be word squirmily to allow them.
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 07:47:12 am »
+5

Quote
before you play your first card
Okay, so this is hardly at the start of your turn, but it's before you play your first card:
1) spend 9273458726345 coin tokens
2) Buy Doctor, trash 9 Fortresses, 10 Cultists, 20 Rats, 1 Overgrown Estate and 1 Catacombs, gaining a Fortress which you then trash with the Watchtower in your hand
3) have 66 cards in hand

EDIT: Improved.

EDIT 2: Improval made it impossible, fixed.

EDIT 3: Improved again!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 07:51:36 am by Awaclus »
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#### SirPeebles

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 09:34:11 am »
0

EDIT: That smiley gets me every time.

I love that she just peers through the spoiler tag.
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#### florrat

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 12:12:16 pm »
0

I haven't read any spoilers yet.  This isn't some trick question where you Procession Durations, is it?  The title suggests no Durations are used, but then the post seems to be word squirmily to allow them.
I am very sorry. This was certainly not my intention. I wanted to describe the idea of the puzzle without making the title too long, and I didn't realize the title conveyed the wrong message this way. Is the current title better? Do you have a better idea to make it clearer (maybe just leave the "without durations" in the title)?

Nice solutions! The things AJD and RTT did was indeed what I had in mind, but I think it can still be significantly improved (even to the point where I'm not sure whether you can have enough cards in your deck to draw; in this puzzle you may assume that the curse pile has arbitrarily many cards).

@Awaclus: Your minimal solution: I had indeed something like that in mind, but it is not optimal, yet
Your maximal solution: nice find. I didn't realize that was possible. But yeah, my formulation certainly allows for that, so it's allowed. And it can be combined with the solution of AJD+RTT.
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#### A Drowned Kernel

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations out
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 01:42:29 pm »
0

But is it true that the last procession is discarded? I was under the impression that if you played TR-TR-Wharf-Wharf, that both TR's stayed out to indicate that both Wharf's are doubled, and since all the processions below it on the procession-tree are played on durations, the top one needs to stay out.
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#### sudgy

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations out
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 01:45:00 pm »
0

But is it true that the last procession is discarded? I was under the impression that if you played TR-TR-Wharf-Wharf, that both TR's stayed out to indicate that both Wharf's are doubled, and since all the processions below it on the procession-tree are played on durations, the top one needs to stay out.

I don't think that's the case, only one TR stays out I'm pretty sure.
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Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

#### cluckyb

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 02:25:06 pm »
0

Outpost gives 3 cards in hand.
But Outpost is not allowed to be in the duration area...

So, how many Wharves and Caravans have I Processioned, giving me their +cards while removing them from play?
And how many Processions are in your duration area in that case?

None.

I'll start the bidding at +61 cards at the start of your turn, with no cards in your Duration area (i.e., in play):

Play a stack of 19 Processions. (10 of them are Bands of Misfits.) With these 19 Processions, play 10 Wharves (for +4 cards each), 8 Caravans (+2 each), and one Tactician (+5). 18 of the 19 Processions, and all the Duration cards, are trashed. The last Procession is not trashed, but it is discarded during cleanup because the card it was used on was not itself a Duration card.)

(is this the solution you had in mind?)

24 more possible if you kingscourt some procession first and play the 2 remaining caravans and 10 havens.
Dont know if that is possible with all 10 but the number should go up a little.

Also another +9 from all the Horse traders you set aside after the other guy played a bunch of council rooms then an attack
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#### sudgy

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 02:32:54 pm »
0

Outpost gives 3 cards in hand.
But Outpost is not allowed to be in the duration area...

So, how many Wharves and Caravans have I Processioned, giving me their +cards while removing them from play?
And how many Processions are in your duration area in that case?

None.

I'll start the bidding at +61 cards at the start of your turn, with no cards in your Duration area (i.e., in play):

Play a stack of 19 Processions. (10 of them are Bands of Misfits.) With these 19 Processions, play 10 Wharves (for +4 cards each), 8 Caravans (+2 each), and one Tactician (+5). 18 of the 19 Processions, and all the Duration cards, are trashed. The last Procession is not trashed, but it is discarded during cleanup because the card it was used on was not itself a Duration card.)

(is this the solution you had in mind?)

24 more possible if you kingscourt some procession first and play the 2 remaining caravans and 10 havens.
Dont know if that is possible with all 10 but the number should go up a little.

Also another +9 from all the Horse traders you set aside after the other guy played a bunch of council rooms then an attack

I already though of similar things, but it needs to be a solitaire game.
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Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

#### Awaclus

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2014, 02:33:36 pm »
0

Outpost gives 3 cards in hand.
But Outpost is not allowed to be in the duration area...

So, how many Wharves and Caravans have I Processioned, giving me their +cards while removing them from play?
And how many Processions are in your duration area in that case?

None.

I'll start the bidding at +61 cards at the start of your turn, with no cards in your Duration area (i.e., in play):

Play a stack of 19 Processions. (10 of them are Bands of Misfits.) With these 19 Processions, play 10 Wharves (for +4 cards each), 8 Caravans (+2 each), and one Tactician (+5). 18 of the 19 Processions, and all the Duration cards, are trashed. The last Procession is not trashed, but it is discarded during cleanup because the card it was used on was not itself a Duration card.)

(is this the solution you had in mind?)

24 more possible if you kingscourt some procession first and play the 2 remaining caravans and 10 havens.
Dont know if that is possible with all 10 but the number should go up a little.

Also another +9 from all the Horse traders you set aside after the other guy played a bunch of council rooms then an attack
It's a solitaire game.
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: Draw cards at the start of your turn without durations
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2014, 12:33:17 pm »
0

@Awaclus: Your minimal solution: I had indeed something like that in mind, but it is not optimal, yet
I thought that I had figured it out for a while, but then I realized that overpay is on-buy, not on-gain. I'll post the solution anyway because it's different and not any worse than my last one.

1) Have a deck consisting of 15 Treasure cards (one of which is Counterfeit), two Madmen and 1 Possession.
2) Possess yourself.
4) Play all of your Treasures.
5) Buy a Mint and trash all of your Treasures, setting them aside.
6) Buy a Doctor, overpay for \$2 and trash your Mint and your Possession, setting them aside, then you gain Doctor.
7) You draw Doctor, etc.

Alternatively, you could also just reveal a Watchtower for the Doctor, but even then, you still end up with that Watchtower in your hand. Unless you buy a Farmland when there are no \$5 cards, but then you have to draw the Farmland and the solution is still only as good as my original solution.
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